[ST:ENT] Season 3 finale
Phillip Thorne
Spoilers for ENT-3.24 "Zero Hour"
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Summary:
Archer is yanked by Daniels to seven years in the future (2161), to
the founding ceremony of the Federation: humans, Vulcans, Andorians,
Tellarites. [Finally, confirmation of the charter members!] Daniels
tells Archer he has a critical role in this event, and urges him not
to go on the Sphere assault.
Degra's ship pursues the Weapon (and its single Reptilian escort)
through its vortex. Sato, feeling ill and inadequate ("I should have
resisted more. Waaah!"), decrypts the late Degra's schematics so they
can plan their attack. They arrive in Earthspace, and Shran's
Andorian ship is there to help. As an appetizer, Dolim [the Reptilian
leader] destroys the unarmed Yosemite Station. While Shran keeps
Dolim busy, the ENT party beams aboard, fights the few Reptilian
guards, and sets the generator to explode. Archer is the last one
out, and has manly fisticuffs with Dolim. Finally, he slaps a spare
limpet mine on the Reptilian's shoulder, and blows him up. SPLAT.
Run from the explosions, Jon! Weapon goes boom.
The Sphere-Builders sense the number of favorable timelines is
continuing to decrease, and take proactive steps. They accelerate the
transformation around Sphere 41, surrounding it with an inimical
orange transdimensional cloud.
Back in the Expanse, ENT embarks on its good-faith mission to disable
the Sphere network. They see the cloud, and Phlox synthesizes an
antidote to its effects, but it'll last only 12 to 15 minutes. (For
Humans and Vulcans, but not Denobulans, the altered space rots their
brains and skins.) Impulse power gets routed to the deflector. Some
Builders arrive and monkey with the power systems (sticking their
hands into relays), but Phlox has a phaser setting that's
semi-effective. Finally, the Sphere crumples, setting off a chain
reaction. The transformed space evaporates. The Builders vanish.
T'Pol's log: 14 Feb 2154. Degra's ship meets them, but Archer didn't
make it. We learn T'Pol will be 66 on her next birthday. They're
ferried back to Earth by an Aquatic ship, but no one's home. Flying
to San Francisco, Tucker and Mayweather are attacked by WWII US
fighter planes.
A Nazi medical tent: Archer, badly burned, lies on a cot. A trio of
officers arrive to peer quizzically at him. One of them is an alien.
[A grey-skinned type we've never seen.]
Questions:
How did Archer get off the Weapon? Was it Daniels, or someone else?
How did the Aquatic vortex end up in c.1943, 210 years in their past?
Does the grey-skinned alien in the Nazi uniform represent yet another
race in the Temporal Cold War? Remember, we haven't seen the Suliban
since late last season.
Is it really the 1940s, or have the timelines been shifted so that
WWII continued for 200 years?
Nits:
Whatever happened to the comm relays ENT had been laying? Couldn't
they call home, "Hey, the Xindi Weapon is on its way. Call in the
Vulcans, wouldja?"
To disable the Weapon, a set of glowing tubes had to be flipped in the
correct order. Archer relied on Sato's promptings, and *she* relied
on a padd, calling out directions like "third from the left." Why
didn't she just brief him beforehand, eg, "Counting from the left,
flip tubes 2, 5, 1 ..."
As a show of faith, ENT agrees to knock out the Sphere network, but
much ado is made of what a chore it'll be for the limping ship. Why
not give the Xindi the plan? Why didn't any Xindi accompany them to
observe the effort?
The transformed space caused the crew's skin to crack, like an old oil
painting. The fissures healed in a few days by themselves, but
shouldn't Phlox have prescribed a salve and bandages, if only to avoid
chafing?
ENT is dropped off in translunar space by an Aquatic ship, which
immediately banks to the right -- presumably to re-enter its vortex.
Being methodical sorts, you'd think they'd stick around to make sure
the Earth ship was actually greeted.
Having had a recent experience with time-travel (3.21-"E^2"), wouldn't
the ENT crew think to check the star-positions after getting no radio
response from Earth?
/- Phillip Thorne ----------- The Non-Sequitur Express --------------------\
| org underbase ta thorne www.underbase.org It's the boundary |
| net comcast ta pethorne site, newsletter, blog conditions that |
\------------------------------------------------------- get you ----------/
D
----------
In article <loiab0heokna1itec...@4ax.com>, Phillip Thorne
<tho...@underbase.org> wrote:
>
>
> (Crossposted to both rec.arts.startrek.tech and rec.arts.sf.tv)
>
> Spoilers for ENT-3.24 "Zero Hour"
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> Questions:
>
> How did Archer get off the Weapon? Was it Daniels, or someone else?
> How did the Aquatic vortex end up in c.1943, 210 years in their past?
About five seconds after it ended I thought "WTF?!! How the heck do Archer
in earth orbit and the Enterprise, hundreds of light years away, both go
back through time?" And the Xindi had apparently been communicating with
their other cohorts, so did all of the Xindi go back in time too?
Unfortunately, I have the distinct dread that when they wrote this episode
they just rolled the dice. They said "Hey! Let's send them back to fight
Nazis!" In other words, they have no real idea where this plot is going or
how they're going to get out of it. They'll figure that out in a month or
so when they get back to writing for next season.
D
Joseph Nebus
>(Crossposted to both rec.arts.startrek.tech and rec.arts.sf.tv)
>Spoilers for ENT-3.24 "Zero Hour"
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>Summary:
[ ... ]
>T'Pol's log: 14 Feb 2154. Degra's ship meets them, but Archer didn't
>make it. We learn T'Pol will be 66 on her next birthday. They're
>ferried back to Earth by an Aquatic ship, but no one's home. Flying
>to San Francisco, Tucker and Mayweather are attacked by WWII US
>fighter planes.
>A Nazi medical tent: Archer, badly burned, lies on a cot. A trio of
>officers arrive to peer quizzically at him. One of them is an alien.
>[A grey-skinned type we've never seen.]
They took the ``Galactica 1980'' option? Wow, I wouldn't have
guessed that was coming. I'm going to be chuckling all day.
Has there ever been a good story with Alien Space Nazis?
--
Joseph Nebus
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Dicenso
On Thu, 27 May 2004, D wrote:
>
>
> ----------
> In article <loiab0heokna1itec...@4ax.com>, Phillip Thorne
> <tho...@underbase.org> wrote:
>
>
> >
> >
> > (Crossposted to both rec.arts.startrek.tech and rec.arts.sf.tv)
> >
> > Spoilers for ENT-3.24 "Zero Hour"
> >
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> > Questions:
> >
> > How did Archer get off the Weapon? Was it Daniels, or someone else?
> > How did the Aquatic vortex end up in c.1943, 210 years in their past?
>
> About five seconds after it ended I thought "WTF?!! How the heck do Archer
> in earth orbit and the Enterprise, hundreds of light years away, both go
> back through time?" And the Xindi had apparently been communicating with
> their other cohorts, so did all of the Xindi go back in time too?
That assumes that the NX-01 has even travelled back in time at all, and
are not in some alternate timeline like what happened with the Defiant in
DS9's "Past Tense Parts I & II".
-Mike
Mike Dicenso
On Wed, 26 May 2004, Phillip Thorne wrote:
> (Crossposted to both rec.arts.startrek.tech and rec.arts.sf.tv)
>
> Spoilers for ENT-3.24 "Zero Hour"
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> Summary:
>
> Archer is yanked by Daniels to seven years in the future (2161), to
> the founding ceremony of the Federation: humans, Vulcans, Andorians,
> Tellarites. [Finally, confirmation of the charter members!] Daniels
> tells Archer he has a critical role in this event, and urges him not
> to go on the Sphere assault.
This was a very nice bit of "future continuity" by the writers since it
was first established firmly in TNG's "The Outcast" that the Federation
was founded in 2161. We also have an approximate time of the calendar year
in which this will likely occur: February 13-14, 2161.
And the on screen canonization of the original charter members is a nice
nod to the fans who expected at least as much.
> How did the Aquatic vortex end up in c.1943, 210 years in their past?
Did it? There's a very good chance it did not. We'll just have to wait and
see.
-Mike
Justin Hilyard
news:Pine.GSO.4.58.0405271431270.26504@seds...
That could be the case, except for the shuttlepod's being attacked by WWII
aircraft. Even if it was an altered timeline in which the war's been going
on for 200 years, would they still be using 1940s-era planes?
William December Starr
tho...@underbase.org said:
> Archer is yanked by Daniels to seven years in the future (2161),
[ *snip* ]
> T'Pol's log: 14 Feb 2154.
No, she said 2152 (and the closed-captioning matched the audio).
Meaning that Daniels' "seven years in the future" is 2159, not 2161.
Meaning, I suspect, that Brannon and Berga hath upfucked yet again.
--
William December Starr <wds...@panix.com>
Phillip Thorne
>> T'Pol's log: 14 Feb 2154.
But on 27 May 2004, wds...@panix.com (William December Starr)
contravened:
>No, she said 2152 (and the closed-captioning matched the audio).
I wasn't taking notes (I haven't been for the past half-dozen eps), so
I'll bow to William on this. However, the startrek.com episode page
cites 14 Feb 2154 (or Feb 14th, 2154) as the episode date.
(And the site was having repeated server errors.)
I *did* have CC on, and early in the ep it read "our alien brothers"
when Dolim was toasting the late *Avians*. Alien, avian. The CC
stenographer must've slipped a key. (I've read the "how's it done?"
pages of a few of the commercial captioners. It's not an easy job --
a computer-aided shorthand system, similar to that of a court
stenographer, is used.)
Mike Dicenso
On Thu, 27 May 2004, William December Starr wrote:
> In article <loiab0heokna1itec...@4ax.com>,
> tho...@underbase.org said:
>
> > Archer is yanked by Daniels to seven years in the future (2161),
>
> [ *snip* ]
>
> > T'Pol's log: 14 Feb 2154.
>
> No, she said 2152 (and the closed-captioning matched the audio).
> Meaning that Daniels' "seven years in the future" is 2159, not 2161.
> Meaning, I suspect, that Brannon and Berga hath upfucked yet again.
But earlier Archer gave Feb 13, 2154, so it is correct.
-Mike
Mike Dicenso
In "Past Tense Parts I & II", there was nothing on Earth, at least as far
as we (the audiance) knew because the Defiant crew did not go down and
investigate. In this situation, the NX-01 crew did go down to the
presumably alternate timeline Earth. The use of WW-II-era aircraft my be
due to some catastrophe caused by our Mystery Nazi Alien, which in turn is
why Earth is not a space faring power, nor has advanced much. There are a
lot of possibilities here, not just one and one only.
-Mike
Comboman
<Z11r...@nospamssatearthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
>----------
>In article <loiab0heokna1itec...@4ax.com>, Phillip Thorne
><tho...@underbase.org> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>
>> (Crossposted to both rec.arts.startrek.tech and rec.arts.sf.tv)
>>
>> Spoilers for ENT-3.24 "Zero Hour"
>>
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>> Questions:
>>
>> How did Archer get off the Weapon? Was it Daniels, or someone else?
>> How did the Aquatic vortex end up in c.1943, 210 years in their past?
>
>About five seconds after it ended I thought "WTF?!! How the heck do Archer
>in earth orbit and the Enterprise, hundreds of light years away, both go
>back through time?" And the Xindi had apparently been communicating with
>their other cohorts, so did all of the Xindi go back in time too?
Perhaps when the spheres were destroyed, the expanse and everything in
it (and recently in it?) got hurled back in time to when the
construction of the spheres began (perhaps 1943?).
Will Shrand return to Andoria to find it in 1943 as well?
>Unfortunately, I have the distinct dread that when they wrote this episode
>they just rolled the dice. They said "Hey! Let's send them back to fight
>Nazis!" In other words, they have no real idea where this plot is going or
>how they're going to get out of it. They'll figure that out in a month or
>so when they get back to writing for next season.
>
That would be a shame, after a year-long story arc that, up until the
final 3 minutes, seemed better planned out than any previous Trek
multi-episode venture.
Also, keep in mind that they didn't know when the episode was filmed
whether Enterprise would be renewed for next season or not. Perhaps
they wrote and filmed two endings: One, a very final ending where
Archer really was killed on the weapon, Enterprise returns to a hero's
welcome, and Shrand, Soval and Admiral [forget his name] make some
comment about founding a "united federation" to work against future
common threats. The other (the one we saw), sets up for next year's
arc; Alien Space Nazis From The Beyond The Fourteenth Dimension!
Maybe they should have went out on a high note after all.
David B.
>
> On Thu, 27 May 2004 03:59:17 GMT, "D"
> <Z11r...@nospamssatearthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >----------
> >In article <loiab0heokna1itec...@4ax.com>, Phillip Thorne
> ><tho...@underbase.org> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> (Crossposted to both rec.arts.startrek.tech and rec.arts.sf.tv)
> >>
> >> Spoilers for ENT-3.24 "Zero Hour"
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> Perhaps when the spheres were destroyed, the expanse and everything in
> it (and recently in it?) got hurled back in time to when the
> construction of the spheres began (perhaps 1943?).
>
> Will Shrand return to Andoria to find it in 1943 as well?
>
> >Unfortunately, I have the distinct dread that when they wrote this episode
> >they just rolled the dice. They said "Hey! Let's send them back to fight
> >Nazis!" In other words, they have no real idea where this plot is going or
> >how they're going to get out of it. They'll figure that out in a month or
> >so when they get back to writing for next season.
> >
> That would be a shame, after a year-long story arc that, up until the
> final 3 minutes, seemed better planned out than any previous Trek
> multi-episode venture.
>
> Also, keep in mind that they didn't know when the episode was filmed
> whether Enterprise would be renewed for next season or not. Perhaps
> they wrote and filmed two endings: One, a very final ending where
> Archer really was killed on the weapon, Enterprise returns to a hero's
> welcome, and Shrand, Soval and Admiral [forget his name] make some
> comment about founding a "united federation" to work against future
> common threats. The other (the one we saw), sets up for next year's
> arc; Alien Space Nazis From The Beyond The Fourteenth Dimension!
> Maybe they should have went out on a high note after all.
They only filmed one ending but they did script a second one in case the
show was cancelled. They probably knew a while before the official
announcement so they probably had time to film a new ending.
D. Joseph Creighton
}No, she said 2152 (and the closed-captioning matched the audio).
}Meaning that Daniels' "seven years in the future" is 2159, not 2161.
I was taking notes and yes, 14 Feb 2152 was T'Pol's log entry date.
Daniels' quote was, "a little more than seven years from now." So there is
the possibility of rounding errors, albeit really bit ones...
--
"Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes hurtling
down the highway." - A. Tannenbaum
D. Joseph Creighton [ESTP] | Systems Analyst, Database Technologies, IST
Joe_Cr...@UManitoba.CA | University of Manitoba Winnipeg, MB, Canada, eh?
Chris Basken
> (Crossposted to both rec.arts.startrek.tech and rec.arts.sf.tv)
>
> Spoilers for ENT-3.24 "Zero Hour"
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> the ENT crew think to check the star-positions after getting no radio
> response from Earth?
For that matter, why didn't they just *look* down and see that
civilization is pre-spaceflight? They've been able to do that since the
early episodes.
Bob Flaminio
> In the last exciting episode, William December Starr
> <wds...@panix.com> wrote: }No, she said 2152 (and the
> closed-captioning matched the audio). }Meaning that Daniels' "seven
> years in the future" is 2159, not 2161.
>
> I was taking notes and yes, 14 Feb 2152 was T'Pol's log entry date.
If so, then the actress misread her line (or the writer goofed). It
should be 2154, unless the E went back in time two years (always a
possibility).
--
Bob
Mark Fergerson
> (Crossposted to both rec.arts.startrek.tech and rec.arts.sf.tv)
>
> Spoilers for ENT-3.24 "Zero Hour"
>
>
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> Summary:
>
> Archer is yanked by Daniels to seven years in the future (2161), to
> the founding ceremony of the Federation: humans, Vulcans, Andorians,
> Tellarites. [Finally, confirmation of the charter members!]
In Daniels' preferred timeline...
<snip>
> T'Pol's log: 14 Feb 2154. Degra's ship meets them, but Archer didn't
> make it. We learn T'Pol will be 66 on her next birthday. They're
> ferried back to Earth by an Aquatic ship, but no one's home. Flying
> to San Francisco, Tucker and Mayweather are attacked by WWII US
> fighter planes.
Can't find my references for said planes. Though markings
looked correct, memory's a tricky thing. Were those roundels
actually Army Air Force or a variation? I mean, actually
WWII or a "war extended many years" kind of thing?
Also, frame-by-framing the approach shots of SF bay makes
it obvious that Star Fleet buildings aren't present (hell,
half of present-day SF isn't there). Why didn't Tucker or
Mayweather notice?
> A Nazi medical tent: Archer, badly burned, lies on a cot. A trio of
> officers arrive to peer quizzically at him. One of them is an alien.
> [A grey-skinned type we've never seen.]
>
> Questions:
>
> How did Archer get off the Weapon? Was it Daniels, or someone else?
Prolly Daniels. But if so, I'd have expected another
"things went to hell" vignette between him and Archer. Maybe
after Archer wakes up.
> How did the Aquatic vortex end up in c.1943, 210 years in their past?
"Temporal rebound" from the spheres' destruction rerouted
the vortex? I don't recall the "physics" behind Xindi
vortices, but obviously they're temporally active so to
speak or there'd be no FTL benefit.
Mighta been Daniels, being a tad heavy-handed.
I wonder where/when the Aquatics will end up?
> Does the grey-skinned alien in the Nazi uniform represent yet another
> race in the Temporal Cold War? Remember, we haven't seen the Suliban
> since late last season.
The Suliban and the Xindi were both fairly high-level
pawns (had direct contact with their "handlers") in the
Temporal War. Were the Builders the Suliban's handlers, or
yet another pawn species? The Builders' avowed purpose in
making the Expanse in the first place was to use the Xindi
to take Humans out of space, to prevent us from being Major
Players in a future confrontation as they transformed all
the galaxy. They have access to multiple timelines and know
how to accentuate one or another, but did they develop that
technology themselves, or are there "Guardians of the Builders"?
Greyface may be another pawn or not; we'll have to wait
and see. I think he may be there to kill Von Braun (and
others in Operation Paperclip) to keep the US from getting
him if Germany loses WWII; he can't kill him earlier because
he's needed to develop the V-weapons etc.
Aside; betcha we don't see Xindi anymore either. Small
chance the Aquatics can't establish a vortex and are stuck
near Earth "for the duration". They'd make a useful resource
as ENT is so badly damaged.
> Is it really the 1940s, or have the timelines been shifted so that
> WWII continued for 200 years?
If the latter, Humans don't get into space in the
sequence we know, so the Temporal War is lost.
If the former, Archer may meet (and assist) Von Braun.
> Nits:
>
> Whatever happened to the comm relays ENT had been laying? Couldn't
> they call home, "Hey, the Xindi Weapon is on its way. Call in the
> Vulcans, wouldja?"
Dedicated subspace hard/software for using the relays may
have been destroyed earlier. Lotsa holes in the ENT hull.
> To disable the Weapon, a set of glowing tubes had to be flipped in the
> correct order. Archer relied on Sato's promptings, and *she* relied
> on a padd, calling out directions like "third from the left." Why
> didn't she just brief him beforehand, eg, "Counting from the left,
> flip tubes 2, 5, 1 ..."
Sato _was_ rather fuzzy around the edges. Best she could
manage?
> As a show of faith, ENT agrees to knock out the Sphere network, but
> much ado is made of what a chore it'll be for the limping ship. Why
> not give the Xindi the plan? Why didn't any Xindi accompany them to
> observe the effort?
Xindi risked (and lost) lives in their part of the
bargain, so humans had to reciprocate. Fair's fair.
> The transformed space caused the crew's skin to crack, like an old oil
> painting. The fissures healed in a few days by themselves, but
> shouldn't Phlox have prescribed a salve and bandages, if only to avoid
> chafing?
Air exposure may speed healing better than any wound
dressing. I can see him saying the equivalent of "tough it
out", with a crooked smile.
> ENT is dropped off in translunar space by an Aquatic ship, which
> immediately banks to the right -- presumably to re-enter its vortex.
> Being methodical sorts, you'd think they'd stick around to make sure
> the Earth ship was actually greeted.
They may not have wanted to wait for ENT to tell Earth
that the big alien ship wasn't an enemy.
> Having had a recent experience with time-travel (3.21-"E^2"), wouldn't
> the ENT crew think to check the star-positions after getting no radio
> response from Earth?
That supports the Extended War hypothesis (star positions
matched, so it didn't get mentioned), but again, that means
the Temporal War is lost as we don't get into space on schedule.
OTOH ENT crew knew they'd come out of the vortex in
near-Earth space, so no point in doing starspotting until
later. But as the shuttle was going down, I'd think somebody
aboard ENT would do it as part of routine Nav tasks and
mention it to Tucker. OTGH, they _were_ kinda busy making
sure the ship didn't fall apart, so routine stuff had to wait.
Mark L. Fergerson
D. Joseph Creighton
}Phillip Thorne wrote:
}> (Crossposted to both rec.arts.startrek.tech and rec.arts.sf.tv)
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Doesn't anyone use control characters anymore?
} Can't find my references for said planes. Though markings
}looked correct, memory's a tricky thing.
I think the markings were "Old Crow" variants but I'm going to re-examine
the tape and get some details. The fuselage numbers had no matches that
I could find.
--
"The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a bit longer."
- Henry Kissinger (via fortune)
Mike Dicenso
On Fri, 28 May 2004, D. Joseph Creighton wrote:
> In the last exciting episode, William December Starr <wds...@panix.com> wrote:
> }No, she said 2152 (and the closed-captioning matched the audio).
> }Meaning that Daniels' "seven years in the future" is 2159, not 2161.
>
> I was taking notes and yes, 14 Feb 2152 was T'Pol's log entry date.
>
> Daniels' quote was, "a little more than seven years from now." So there is
> the possibility of rounding errors, albeit really bit ones...
The T'Pol log entry is in error, you obviously missed Archer's April 13,
2154 log entry, and the previous season's log entries being set well
into 2152 and 2153 as well. If they had been in the Expanse as long as 8
months, and it took them 3 months just to get there, then at least a year
has gone by. Add to that, the NX-01 took several months to get back to
Earth after hearing of the Xindi attack, and spent several more months
being refitted to start out. So, at least a year and a half have gone by,
and that means it has to be late 2153, or early 2154, which matches
Archer's 2154 log date, and not T'Pol's. Case closed.
-Mike
David Johnston
wrote:
That would have been less "dramatic".
Cory C. Albrecht
>Phillip Thorne wrote:
>> correct order. Archer relied on Sato's promptings, and *she* relied
>> on a padd, calling out directions like "third from the left." Why
>> didn't she just brief him beforehand, eg, "Counting from the left,
>> flip tubes 2, 5, 1 ..."
> Sato _was_ rather fuzzy around the edges. Best she could
>manage?
If Hoshi coudl read from the PADD and tell Archer the order to flip the
fuses, then why couldn't Archer have read those same directions himself?
The more I think about it, taking Hoshi was the idea of very dumb
writier trying to up the dramatic ante. There was no apparent reason why
Hoshi absolutely had to have been there, other than Archer's continual
insistance of "she was there once before." And since continual
insistance of a single point like that without exapanding and explaining
why is a hallmark of somebody who can't really support their reasoning,
I see it as yet another pointer to my hypothesis of a dumb writer
incompetently trying to up the ante.
--
Cory Albrecht
http://cory.doesntexist.com/
"Star Trekkin' across the universe!
Always going forward 'cause we can't find reverse!"
William December Starr
Mike Dicenso <mdic...@seds.org> said:
>>> T'Pol's log: 14 Feb 2154.
>>
>> No, she said 2152 (and the closed-captioning matched the audio).
>> Meaning that Daniels' "seven years in the future" is 2159, not
>> 2161. Meaning, I suspect, that Brannon and Berga hath upfucked
>> yet again. [wdstarr]
>
> But earlier Archer gave Feb 13, 2154, so it is correct.
Man, T'Pol's emotions must _really_ be messing her up then. :-)
William December Starr
coryal...@hotmail.com (Cory C. Albrecht) said:
> The more I think about it, taking Hoshi was the idea of very dumb
> writier trying to up the dramatic ante. There was no apparent
> reason why Hoshi absolutely had to have been there, other than
> Archer's continual insistance of "she was there once before." And
> since continual insistance of a single point like that without
> exapanding and explaining why is a hallmark of somebody who can't
> really support their reasoning, I see it as yet another pointer to
> my hypothesis of a dumb writer incompetently trying to up the ante.
Was she still working on decrypting the fine points of the "How to
blow da sucker up" file while they were making their way to the
center of the sphere? If so, then taking her along at least makes
sense.
David Johnston
Albrecht) wrote:
>In article <c0Ktc.1077$mm1.186@fed1read06>, Mark Fergerson <nu...@biz.ness> wrote:
>>Phillip Thorne wrote:
>>> To disable the Weapon, a set of glowing tubes had to be flipped in the
>>> correct order. Archer relied on Sato's promptings, and *she* relied
>>> on a padd, calling out directions like "third from the left." Why
>>> didn't she just brief him beforehand, eg, "Counting from the left,
>>> flip tubes 2, 5, 1 ..."
>
>> Sato _was_ rather fuzzy around the edges. Best she could
>>manage?
>
>If Hoshi coudl read from the PADD and tell Archer the order to flip the
>fuses, then why couldn't Archer have read those same directions himself?
>The more I think about it, taking Hoshi was the idea of very dumb
>writier trying to up the dramatic ante. There was no apparent reason why
>Hoshi absolutely had to have been there, other than Archer's continual
>insistance of "she was there once before."
She was due for some face time.
Jack Bohn
>I *did* have CC on, and early in the ep it read "our alien brothers"
>when Dolim was toasting the late *Avians*. Alien, avian. The CC
>stenographer must've slipped a key. (I've read the "how's it done?"
>pages of a few of the commercial captioners. It's not an easy job --
>a computer-aided shorthand system, similar to that of a court
>stenographer, is used.)
What? They do it in real time like the news? Geez, let them
pause, rewind; so it takes two hours to do an hour show. Of
course, I would think already having the script in some
electronic format would save a lot of typing, but it's hard to
judge when it would take longer correcting it to the filmed
performance.
--
-Jack
Jack Bohn
>Phillip Thorne <tho...@underbase.org> writes:
>
>
>>Spoilers for ENT-3.24 "Zero Hour"
>
>
>>10
>
>>
>>9
>
>
>>8
>
>
>>7
>
>
>>6
>
>
>>5
>
>
>>4
>
>
>>3
>
>
>>2
>
>
>>1
>
>
>>Summary:
>
> [ ... ]
>
>>A Nazi medical tent: Archer, badly burned, lies on a cot. A trio of
>>officers arrive to peer quizzically at him. One of them is an alien.
>>[A grey-skinned type we've never seen.]
>
> They took the ``Galactica 1980'' option? Wow, I wouldn't have
>guessed that was coming. I'm going to be chuckling all day.
>
> Has there ever been a good story with Alien Space Nazis?
The two-parter with the Hirogen on Voyager was good. Of course,
one could argue how purely that was Alien Space Nazis.
--
-Jack
Justin Hilyard
"William December Starr" <wds...@panix.com> wrote in message
news:c991l2$fs0$1...@panix2.panix.com...
Well, it _was_ Valentine's Day.
Justin Hilyard
"David Johnston" <rgorma...@telusplanet.net> wrote in message
news:40b7a6b6...@news.telusplanet.net...
Plus, if you look at the exchange, from the shuttlepod Mayweather said that
SF looked normal, and apparently he may even have seen a landing pad for the
pod, throwing an even bigger wrench into things.
John C. Baker
Jack Bohn <jack...@bright.net> wrote:
> >I *did* have CC on, and early in the ep it read "our alien brothers"
> >when Dolim was toasting the late *Avians*. Alien, avian. The CC
> >stenographer must've slipped a key.
>
> What? They do it in real time like the news? Geez, let them
> pause, rewind; so it takes two hours to do an hour show.
I've seen cases where they've obviously done the captioning from a
prepared script, which didn't handle last-minute changes. For example,
I've seen closing monlogues on The X-Files that differed significantly
from what Mulder narrated on screen. So you can't win either way.
John C. Baker
"Justin Hilyard" <r...@eoni.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> 10
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> 9
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> 8
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> 7
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> 6
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> 5
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> 4
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> 3
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> 2
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> 1
> > >>
> > >>
> Plus, if you look at the exchange, from the shuttlepod Mayweather said that
> SF looked normal, and apparently he may even have seen a landing pad for the
> pod, throwing an even bigger wrench into things.
I think Mayweather's speech was just meant to reflect a casual glance at
the city, seeing the GG Bridge and urbanization, rather than a full-on
sensor sweep and seeing 22nd century buildings. I find it easier to
believe that than any alternate future theory.
Timo S Saloniemi
You tell me. White five-point stars without any red dots anywhere,
blue background circle without rim, white blue-rimmed boxes or wings
to the sides. But "war extended many years" and the continuing use
of P-51D don't seem commeasurate. I mean, the Mustang stayed in
service for more than a decade in assorted ANGs and foreign air
forces, but that was because the war ended. Had it continued even
for two or three years, USAAF would have been flying nothing but
jets in the pursuit role.
> Also, frame-by-framing the approach shots of SF bay makes
>it obvious that Star Fleet buildings aren't present (hell,
>half of present-day SF isn't there). Why didn't Tucker or
>Mayweather notice?
As somebody already mentioned, the native San Franciscoite Sulu saw
little difference between the 1980s and late 23rd century
cities in ST4. Perhaps the attractive and familiar city skyline is
all that matters to a non-native. And time travel wasn't the
first theory Tucker or Mayweather would have come up with, to
explain the silence - they were probably expecting to see a smoking
ruin, and just commented in relief that this was not the case.
>> How did the Aquatic vortex end up in c.1943, 210 years in their past?
> "Temporal rebound" from the spheres' destruction rerouted
>the vortex? I don't recall the "physics" behind Xindi
>vortices, but obviously they're temporally active so to
>speak or there'd be no FTL benefit.
Seems rather obvious to me, yes. All the advanced Builder tech would be
interconnected somehow, and its destruction would cause effects even
weirder than the usual effects of the tech.
>> Does the grey-skinned alien in the Nazi uniform represent yet another
>> race in the Temporal Cold War? Remember, we haven't seen the Suliban
>> since late last season.
> The Suliban and the Xindi were both fairly high-level
>pawns (had direct contact with their "handlers") in the
>Temporal War. Were the Builders the Suliban's handlers, or
>yet another pawn species? The Builders' avowed purpose in
>making the Expanse in the first place was to use the Xindi
>to take Humans out of space, to prevent us from being Major
>Players in a future confrontation as they transformed all
>the galaxy. They have access to multiple timelines and know
>how to accentuate one or another, but did they develop that
>technology themselves, or are there "Guardians of the Builders"?
Good question. Perhaps the unleashing of such a destructive
force as these transdimensionals is the equivalent of deploying
a WMD in the temporal war? And perhaps the other races are being
manipulated in a complex effort to defeat the WMD, rather than
for the purpose of actually affecting the other races' fates?
> Greyface may be another pawn or not; we'll have to wait
>and see. I think he may be there to kill Von Braun (and
>others in Operation Paperclip) to keep the US from getting
>him if Germany loses WWII; he can't kill him earlier because
>he's needed to develop the V-weapons etc.
Or he could be there to undermine the German war effort, in
case the opposing side had somehow neutralized so many crazed
Nazi leaders that the Germans actually stood a chance of winning.
The big question probably is, do these people realize he's a
weird vampire from outer space, or do they see him as one of
their own somehow? If Earth had space alien overlord manipulating
WWIIs, wouldn't the first order of business be to supply one or
both sides with futuristic weapons, or something better than
yer usual P-51s with machine guns?
> Aside; betcha we don't see Xindi anymore either. Small
>chance the Aquatics can't establish a vortex and are stuck
>near Earth "for the duration". They'd make a useful resource
>as ENT is so badly damaged.
Here's hoping...
>> Is it really the 1940s, or have the timelines been shifted so that
>> WWII continued for 200 years?
>
> If the latter, Humans don't get into space in the
>sequence we know, so the Temporal War is lost.
Or then they pick up speed later on. The war won't be lost
for good until the 26th century, right?
>> Nits:
>>
>> Whatever happened to the comm relays ENT had been laying? Couldn't
>> they call home, "Hey, the Xindi Weapon is on its way. Call in the
>> Vulcans, wouldja?"
> Dedicated subspace hard/software for using the relays may
>have been destroyed earlier. Lotsa holes in the ENT hull.
Or the relays could have been disabled by their enemies. It's not
as if the Enterprise has been in constant communication with Earth
anyway.
>> The transformed space caused the crew's skin to crack, like an old oil
>> painting. The fissures healed in a few days by themselves, but
>> shouldn't Phlox have prescribed a salve and bandages, if only to avoid
>> chafing?
>
> Air exposure may speed healing better than any wound
>dressing. I can see him saying the equivalent of "tough it
>out", with a crooked smile.
So the proper response should have been to strip the patients naked?
I do wonder why they didn't go for it.
>> Having had a recent experience with time-travel (3.21-"E^2"), wouldn't
>> the ENT crew think to check the star-positions after getting no radio
>> response from Earth?
> OTOH ENT crew knew they'd come out of the vortex in
>near-Earth space, so no point in doing starspotting until
>later. But as the shuttle was going down, I'd think somebody
>aboard ENT would do it as part of routine Nav tasks and
>mention it to Tucker. OTGH, they _were_ kinda busy making
>sure the ship didn't fall apart, so routine stuff had to wait.
Sounds good enough to me. And perhaps Mayweather would be the only
one to spot the difference at first sight, the non-boomer Starfleet-
trained folks being too reliant on their instruments to do any quick
visual checking. And since Travis was busy piloting the shuttle...
Timo Saloniemi
Cory C. Albrecht
>In article <c98kol$o0kq...@fenris.cjb.net>,
>coryal...@hotmail.com (Cory C. Albrecht) said:
>
>> The more I think about it, taking Hoshi was the idea of very dumb
>> writier trying to up the dramatic ante. There was no apparent
>> reason why Hoshi absolutely had to have been there, other than
>Was she still working on decrypting the fine points of the "How to
>blow da sucker up" file while they were making their way to the
>center of the sphere? If so, then taking her along at least makes
>sense.
I was referring to to taking Hoshi along onto the Xindi Death Star,
sorry if I didn't make that clear.
I can see that she needed to be taken along on Degra's ship to try and
decrypt Degra's set of plans for weapon, but I see absolutely no reason
why she needed to also be in the boarding party. Even though they
couldn't beam that far into teh weapon, they _can_ communicate back and
forth that far, so at most Hoshi would have had to be on the bridge of
Degra's ship to talk Archer through it.
Stupid writer(s) coming up with a stupid idea to try and raise dramatic
tension.
Comboman
wrote:
>Phillip Thorne wrote:
>
>> (Crossposted to both rec.arts.startrek.tech and rec.arts.sf.tv)
>>
>> Spoilers for ENT-3.24 "Zero Hour"
>>
>>
>> 10
>>
>>
>> 9
>>
>>
>> 8
>>
>>
>> 7
>>
>>
>> 6
>>
>>
>> 5
>>
>>
>> 4
>>
>>
>> 3
>>
>>
>> 2
>>
>>
>> 1
>>
>>
>> Having had a recent experience with time-travel (3.21-"E^2"), wouldn't
>> the ENT crew think to check the star-positions after getting no radio
>> response from Earth?
>
> That supports the Extended War hypothesis (star positions
>matched, so it didn't get mentioned), but again, that means
>the Temporal War is lost as we don't get into space on schedule.
>
> OTOH ENT crew knew they'd come out of the vortex in
>near-Earth space, so no point in doing starspotting until
>later. But as the shuttle was going down, I'd think somebody
>aboard ENT would do it as part of routine Nav tasks and
>mention it to Tucker. OTGH, they _were_ kinda busy making
>sure the ship didn't fall apart, so routine stuff had to wait.
>
Forget star-positions; in ST4:TVH, Spock was able to determine they
were in the late twentieth century just by the level of pollution in
the atmosphere. And this wasn't the normal, wits-about-him Spock at
the science station of the Enterprise; this was the
recently-joined-to-his-Katra, missing-memories Spock at the controls
of a Klingon Bird-of-Prey.
Joseph Nebus
>Forget star-positions; in ST4:TVH, Spock was able to determine they
>were in the late twentieth century just by the level of pollution in
>the atmosphere. And this wasn't the normal, wits-about-him Spock at
>the science station of the Enterprise; this was the
>recently-joined-to-his-Katra, missing-memories Spock at the controls
>of a Klingon Bird-of-Prey.
But it was also Spock who *expected* he was travelling through
time, who *planned* the time travel, and who was specifically looking
to see what time they had reached. Average people do not, at the end
of a voyage, start making checks to see whether they've travelled into
the past unless they have a compelling body of evidence to suggest the
possibility that they may have. If they haven't seen something which
suggests they might have travelled in time, they wouldn't go looking
for data which would tell them how much they've travelled in time.
--
Joseph Nebus
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Fergerson
> In the last exciting episode, Mark Fergerson <nu...@biz.ness> wrote:
> }Phillip Thorne wrote:
> }> (Crossposted to both rec.arts.startrek.tech and rec.arts.sf.tv)
> }>
> }> Spoilers for ENT-3.24 "Zero Hour"
<snip spoilerspace; I think we're far enough down for that>
> Doesn't anyone use control characters anymore?
>
Don't look at me; I'm just another User. ;>)
> } Can't find my references for said planes. Though markings
> }looked correct, memory's a tricky thing.
>
> I think the markings were "Old Crow" variants but I'm going to re-examine
> the tape and get some details. The fuselage numbers had no matches that
> I could find.
I wouldn't expect fuselage number matches, just wondered
about general paint scheme agreement with the WWII era.
Mark L. Fergerson
Mark Fergerson
> In article <c0Ktc.1077$mm1.186@fed1read06> Mark Fergerson <nu...@biz.ness> writes:
>
>>Phillip Thorne wrote:
>>
>>
>>>(Crossposted to both rec.arts.startrek.tech and rec.arts.sf.tv)
>>>
>>>Spoilers for ENT-3.24 "Zero Hour"
<snip spoilerspace>
>>>Summary:
<snip>
>>> Flying
>>>to San Francisco, Tucker and Mayweather are attacked by WWII US
>>>fighter planes.
>>
>> Can't find my references for said planes. Though markings
>>looked correct, memory's a tricky thing. Were those roundels
>>actually Army Air Force or a variation? I mean, actually
>>WWII or a "war extended many years" kind of thing?
> You tell me. White five-point stars without any red dots anywhere,
> blue background circle without rim, white blue-rimmed boxes or wings
> to the sides. But "war extended many years" and the continuing use
> of P-51D don't seem commeasurate. I mean, the Mustang stayed in
> service for more than a decade in assorted ANGs and foreign air
> forces, but that was because the war ended. Had it continued even
> for two or three years, USAAF would have been flying nothing but
> jets in the pursuit role.
I can't tell you because I can't find my reference works.
Anyway, the "war extended" hypothesis could include a
general slowdown in the development process that ran so hot
in the first few years. Yeah, for a couple centuries is a
stretch, but remember, this is Brannon & Braga.
>> Also, frame-by-framing the approach shots of SF bay makes
>>it obvious that Star Fleet buildings aren't present (hell,
>>half of present-day SF isn't there). Why didn't Tucker or
>>Mayweather notice?
> As somebody already mentioned, the native San Franciscoite Sulu saw
> little difference between the 1980s and late 23rd century
> cities in ST4. Perhaps the attractive and familiar city skyline is
> all that matters to a non-native. And time travel wasn't the
> first theory Tucker or Mayweather would have come up with, to
> explain the silence - they were probably expecting to see a smoking
> ruin, and just commented in relief that this was not the case.
Could be, but when Tucker asks for a landing site behind
some Star Fleet buildings, Mayweather should have said
"_What_ Star Fleet buildings?".
>>>How did the Aquatic vortex end up in c.1943, 210 years in their past?
>> "Temporal rebound" from the spheres' destruction rerouted
>>the vortex? I don't recall the "physics" behind Xindi
>>vortices, but obviously they're temporally active so to
>>speak or there'd be no FTL benefit.
> Seems rather obvious to me, yes. All the advanced Builder tech would be
> interconnected somehow, and its destruction would cause effects even
> weirder than the usual effects of the tech.
Side issue; how far does the time-rebound effect extend?
All the spheres went away, all the "weirdspace" returned to
normal and the stuff surrounding the Expanse went away
rather too quickly. Did that happen because the spheres
blowed up real good, or because they never were all of a
sudden? What did the stay-behind Xindi experience?
Is this a reverse-reset?
>>>Does the grey-skinned alien in the Nazi uniform represent yet another
>>>race in the Temporal Cold War? Remember, we haven't seen the Suliban
>>>since late last season.
>> The Suliban and the Xindi were both fairly high-level
>>pawns (had direct contact with their "handlers") in the
>>Temporal War. Were the Builders the Suliban's handlers, or
>>yet another pawn species? The Builders' avowed purpose in
>>making the Expanse in the first place was to use the Xindi
>>to take Humans out of space, to prevent us from being Major
>>Players in a future confrontation as they transformed all
>>the galaxy. They have access to multiple timelines and know
>>how to accentuate one or another, but did they develop that
>>technology themselves, or are there "Guardians of the Builders"?
> Good question. Perhaps the unleashing of such a destructive
> force as these transdimensionals is the equivalent of deploying
> a WMD in the temporal war? And perhaps the other races are being
> manipulated in a complex effort to defeat the WMD, rather than
> for the purpose of actually affecting the other races' fates?
"There's always another layer of deception" comes to mind.
I've been (naively) assuming Daniels represents The Good
Guys directly, and the Suliban's handlers the Bad Guys, who
were probably the Builders. That silly "temporal hologram"
or whatever it was the handlers appeared in made up for the
Builders' inability to manifest in unmodified space, you
see. But the more I think about it, the less they acted like
Builders; they should have pulled a variation of the
"They're here to destroy you" trick on the Suliban rather
than essentially hiring them as hitmen.
Now you've got me wondering who Daniels works for.
>> Greyface may be another pawn or not; we'll have to wait
>>and see. I think he may be there to kill Von Braun (and
>>others in Operation Paperclip) to keep the US from getting
>>him if Germany loses WWII; he can't kill him earlier because
>>he's needed to develop the V-weapons etc.
> Or he could be there to undermine the German war effort, in
> case the opposing side had somehow neutralized so many crazed
> Nazi leaders that the Germans actually stood a chance of winning.
So Greyface may be a Good Guy/pawn? Yikes! I hadn't
thought of that. Uh, that means there's a Bad Guy/pawn
somewhere among the Allies? Oh, shit.
> The big question probably is, do these people realize he's a
> weird vampire from outer space, or do they see him as one of
> their own somehow? If Earth had space alien overlord manipulating
> WWIIs, wouldn't the first order of business be to supply one or
> both sides with futuristic weapons, or something better than
> yer usual P-51s with machine guns?
Hmm, I hadn't thought of that either. The "Master Race"
would only tolerate something so blatantly nonhuman if he
demonstrated an overwhelming ability to kick ass. That would
require fairly fancy tech, which Germany would quickly
"borrow" one way or another. But that would screw up the
timeline, so likely he's seen as human somehow.
Besides, Greyface showed nothing resembling surprise upon
first seeing Archer, so either he can't (Botox?), or he
expected Archer. That makes him more likely to be a Good Guy.
>>>Is it really the 1940s, or have the timelines been shifted so that
>>>WWII continued for 200 years?
>>
>> If the latter, Humans don't get into space in the
>>sequence we know, so the Temporal War is lost.
> Or then they pick up speed later on. The war won't be lost
> for good until the 26th century, right?
But history in between is changed irreparably. Oh, right;
what timeline _does_ Daniels prefer?
>>>Nits:
>>>
>>>Whatever happened to the comm relays ENT had been laying? Couldn't
>>>they call home, "Hey, the Xindi Weapon is on its way. Call in the
>>>Vulcans, wouldja?"
>> Dedicated subspace hard/software for using the relays may
>>have been destroyed earlier. Lotsa holes in the ENT hull.
> Or the relays could have been disabled by their enemies. It's not
> as if the Enterprise has been in constant communication with Earth
> anyway.
There is that; when was their last "call home"?
>>>The transformed space caused the crew's skin to crack, like an old oil
>>>painting. The fissures healed in a few days by themselves, but
>>>shouldn't Phlox have prescribed a salve and bandages, if only to avoid
>>>chafing?
>>
>> Air exposure may speed healing better than any wound
>>dressing. I can see him saying the equivalent of "tough it
>>out", with a crooked smile.
> So the proper response should have been to strip the patients naked?
> I do wonder why they didn't go for it.
Uh, yeah. ;>)
>>>Having had a recent experience with time-travel (3.21-"E^2"), wouldn't
>>>the ENT crew think to check the star-positions after getting no radio
>>>response from Earth?
>> OTOH ENT crew knew they'd come out of the vortex in
>>near-Earth space, so no point in doing starspotting until
>>later. But as the shuttle was going down, I'd think somebody
>>aboard ENT would do it as part of routine Nav tasks and
>>mention it to Tucker. OTGH, they _were_ kinda busy making
>>sure the ship didn't fall apart, so routine stuff had to wait.
> Sounds good enough to me. And perhaps Mayweather would be the only
> one to spot the difference at first sight, the non-boomer Starfleet-
> trained folks being too reliant on their instruments to do any quick
> visual checking. And since Travis was busy piloting the shuttle...
"_What_ Star Fleet buildings, dammit?" Mayweather should
have noticed.
Mark L. Fergerson
Timo S Saloniemi
>Forget star-positions; in ST4:TVH, Spock was able to determine they
>were in the late twentieth century just by the level of pollution in
>the atmosphere. And this wasn't the normal, wits-about-him Spock at
>the science station of the Enterprise; this was the
>recently-joined-to-his-Katra, missing-memories Spock at the controls
>of a Klingon Bird-of-Prey.
...Although to be fair, Spock had slightly more experience on time travel
than the ENT heroes, was a priori aware that time travel had just occurred
(indeed, had deliberately effected that time travel himself), and was
operating equipment from a society that is technologically more savvy than
ENT-era Earth.
Timo Saloniemi
D. Joseph Creighton
}<snip spoilerspace; I think we're far enough down for that>
}
}> Doesn't anyone use control characters anymore?
} Don't look at me; I'm just another User. ;>)
I'd never admit to that. ;)
}> I think the markings were "Old Crow" variants but I'm going to re-examine
}> the tape and get some details. The fuselage numbers had no matches that
}> I could find.
}
} I wouldn't expect fuselage number matches, just wondered
}about general paint scheme agreement with the WWII era.
Myself as well.
It appears the P-51s were modelled on Bud Anderson's P-51D Old Crow scheme
http://www.cebudanderson.com/modelguide.htm
specifically
http://www.cebudanderson.com/images/erikoldcrownew6.jpg
http://www.airshots.com/mustang/p5101wd92.htm
but they differ enough to probably be considered fictional rather than
reproductions.
Here is a description of the aircraft in the episode (I hope I've not
overlooked anything)...
Silver basecoat.
The rudder (as viewed from starboard) could best be described in heraldic
terms: per pale off-centered to the fore embattled gules and or, the serial
number counterchanged. [ In plain english: the rudder is divided unequally
with a vertical line that looks like a castle battlement -- the rook's "roof"
-- and is closer to the front that the rear. It is red on the larger left
side and yellow on the smaller right side with the serial number being
yellow-on-red then red-on-yellow; it remains red when it extends onto the
silver basecoat. ]
The tail number *might* be 72217; interestingly, this is the Zip Code for
Little Rock, AR.
The fuselage markings are "AS-1" (written "1-AS" as viewed from starboard).
There are no invasion stripes on either the wings or the lower fuselage.
No obvious victory markings or pilot names.
Standard "bars-and-stars" on the fuselage and top of left wing.
The hood is black; no "Old Crow" text is present.
The propeller nose is yellow with a red tip.
So... who's going to build one first?
--
"Don't like my postings? Call 1/800/dev/null" - USENET bumper sticker
Chris Basken
> and was
> operating equipment from a society that is technologically more savvy than
> ENT-era Earth.
On what observations do you base this last statement? ;)
nospa...@nospampanix.com
Chris Basken <ch...@werewolf.com> wrote:
>
>For that matter, why didn't they just *look* down and see that
>civilization is pre-spaceflight? They've been able to do that since the
>early episodes.
Or notice that there is not one bit of man-made hardware orbiting
earth? No old GPS satellites, no bases, no nothing! Isn't
that just a tiny bit suspicious?
The pick-up next season has (in Desilu's co-founder's phrasing)
a lot of 'splainin' to do. And it's not going to be pretty.
The episode would have been dramatically satisfactory if it had
ended without a twist - and with Archer not only really dead, but
really most sincerely dead. Not a dream. Not a hoax. Not
an 'Imaginary Story'. Now _that_ would have been a surprise
ending!
D
In article <c9i265$7kn$1...@panix5.panix.com>, nospa...@nospampanix.com
wrote:
> The pick-up next season has (in Desilu's co-founder's phrasing)
> a lot of 'splainin' to do. And it's not going to be pretty.
>
> The episode would have been dramatically satisfactory if it had
> ended without a twist - and with Archer not only really dead, but
> really most sincerely dead. Not a dream. Not a hoax. Not
> an 'Imaginary Story'. Now _that_ would have been a surprise
> ending!
I get the sense that they just invented the whole thing as a shocker,
without even the slightest sense of how they would explain it. In fact,
I've heard that this has been the case for at least one other season finale
of Trek--after going on hiatus for a few months the writers sat down and
said "Okay, now how are we going to write ourselves out of the corner that
we painted ourselves into?"
D
Mike Dicenso
Effectively, the Galactic Empire of Star Wars are Space Nazis, even the
uniforms are patterned with them in mind. It's debatable as to whether or
not "Patterns of Force" is a good story, although it does have some great
character moments, like Spock standing on Kirk's lacerated back in order
to reach a light fixture so he can power a crude laser.
-Mike
GMAN
know where they are going with this and are just now hiring writers
Dwight Williams
> In article <bv1vc.33721$zO3....@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>, "D" <Z11r...@nospamssatearthlink.net> wrote:
> >
> >I get the sense that they just invented the whole thing as a shocker,
> >without even the slightest sense of how they would explain it. In fact,
> >I've heard that this has been the case for at least one other season finale
> >of Trek--after going on hiatus for a few months the writers sat down and
> >said "Okay, now how are we going to write ourselves out of the corner that
> >we painted ourselves into?"
> >
> know where they are going with this and are just now hiring writers
Ought to be interesting to see how it goes, then...
Giving them points for honesty here.
--
Dwight Williams, Storyteller
Artist - _Evening Shift_ Comics for Arctic Star Studios
http://web.ncf.ca/ad696/
http://www.arcticstarstudios.com/
Timo S Saloniemi
Obvious: Klingons had colorful, glowing buttons instead of plasma screens
for user interfaces in ST4. And glowing buttons, as we know, are a TOS
technology. And TOS technology is more advanced than ENT technology. QED.
FWIW.
Timo Saloniemi
Chris Basken
> Chris Basken writes:
>>Timo S Saloniemi wrote:
>>>and was
>>>operating equipment from a society that is technologically more savvy than
>>>ENT-era Earth.
>
>>On what observations do you base this last statement? ;)
>
> Obvious: Klingons had colorful, glowing buttons instead of plasma screens
> for user interfaces in ST4. And glowing buttons, as we know, are a TOS
> technology. And TOS technology is more advanced than ENT technology. QED.
> FWIW.
That just means they're more color-coordinated. Who'd have thunk the
Klingons were so in touch with their artistic sides?
Paul Vader
>I've seen cases where they've obviously done the captioning from a
>prepared script, which didn't handle last-minute changes. For example,
>I've seen closing monlogues on The X-Files that differed significantly
>from what Mulder narrated on screen. So you can't win either way.
Right. Captions on the news are done in real time using a shorthand process
similar to that used by court stenos. On pre-recorded material, they're
done near the end of the production process, but not always on the final
cut, which sometime results in slight differences in phrasing. In movies,
the shooting script gets used, which can cause really funny things to
happen. For example, in the Godfather, you can read both sides of a certain
phone conversation, which totally spoils the following scene (the one
involving a tollbooth). *
--
* PV something like badgers--something like lizards--and something
like corkscrews.
William December Starr
Chris Basken <ch...@werewolf.com> said:
> That just means they're more color-coordinated. Who'd have
> thunk the Klingons were so in touch with their artistic sides?
"I call this one 'My Enemy's Intestines no. 7'."
"Oooh, I just *love* what you've done with his colon!"
Zombie Elvis
You wrote:
Well, they do have all those constantly warring families and
factions. That should make for profitable flag and uniform making
industries where young Klingons who are not yet old enough to be
warriors can learn to be "stylish."
--
Piloteers do it on the road
Daniel J. Ellis
DJE
"David Johnston" <rgorma...@telusplanet.net> wrote in message
news:40b81c51...@news.telusplanet.net...
> On Sat, 29 May 2004 00:16:21 GMT, coryal...@hotmail.com (Cory C.
> Albrecht) wrote:
>
> >In article <c0Ktc.1077$mm1.186@fed1read06>, Mark Fergerson
<nu...@biz.ness> wrote:
> >>Phillip Thorne wrote:
> >>> To disable the Weapon, a set of glowing tubes had to be flipped in the
> >>> correct order. Archer relied on Sato's promptings, and *she* relied
> >>> on a padd, calling out directions like "third from the left." Why
> >>> didn't she just brief him beforehand, eg, "Counting from the left,
> >>> flip tubes 2, 5, 1 ..."
> >
> >> Sato _was_ rather fuzzy around the edges. Best she could
> >>manage?
> >
> >If Hoshi coudl read from the PADD and tell Archer the order to flip the
> >fuses, then why couldn't Archer have read those same directions himself?
> >The more I think about it, taking Hoshi was the idea of very dumb
> >writier trying to up the dramatic ante. There was no apparent reason why
> >Hoshi absolutely had to have been there, other than Archer's continual
> >insistance of "she was there once before."
>
> She was due for some face time.
Administrator
> On Thu, 27 May 2004 03:59:17 GMT, "D"
> <Z11r...@nospamssatearthlink.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>----------
>>In article <loiab0heokna1itec...@4ax.com>, Phillip Thorne
>><tho...@underbase.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> (Crossposted to both rec.arts.startrek.tech and rec.arts.sf.tv)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 10
>>>
>>>
>>> 9
>>>
>>>
>>> 8
>>>
>>>
>>> 7
>>>
>>>
>>> 6
>>>
>>>
>>> 5
>>>
>>>
>>> 4
>>>
>>>
>>> 3
>>>
>>>
>>> 2
>>>
>>>
>>> 1
>>
>>>
>>> How did Archer get off the Weapon? Was it Daniels, or someone else?
>>> How did the Aquatic vortex end up in c.1943, 210 years in their past?
>>
>>in earth orbit and the Enterprise, hundreds of light years away, both go
>>back through time?" And the Xindi had apparently been communicating with
>>their other cohorts, so did all of the Xindi go back in time too?
>
> Perhaps when the spheres were destroyed, the expanse and everything in
> it (and recently in it?) got hurled back in time to when the
> construction of the spheres began (perhaps 1943?).
>
> Will Shrand return to Andoria to find it in 1943 as well?
>
>>Unfortunately, I have the distinct dread that when they wrote this episode
>>they just rolled the dice. They said "Hey! Let's send them back to fight
>>Nazis!" In other words, they have no real idea where this plot is going or
>>how they're going to get out of it. They'll figure that out in a month or
>>so when they get back to writing for next season.
>>
> That would be a shame, after a year-long story arc that, up until the
> final 3 minutes, seemed better planned out than any previous Trek
> multi-episode venture.
>
> Also, keep in mind that they didn't know when the episode was filmed
> whether Enterprise would be renewed for next season or not. Perhaps
> they wrote and filmed two endings: One, a very final ending where
> Archer really was killed on the weapon, Enterprise returns to a hero's
> welcome, and Shrand, Soval and Admiral [forget his name] make some
> comment about founding a "united federation" to work against future
> common threats. The other (the one we saw), sets up for next year's
> arc; Alien Space Nazis From The Beyond The Fourteenth Dimension!
> Maybe they should have went out on a high note after all.
>
This would have been a good way to "right" the timelines WRGT the next
rest of the series. Maybe they will slip into another rality which will become
the TOS timeline... Hmmm...