Who else hates Sisko?
Ayson
I feel the Sisko character stinks. He's as stiff as a rock. Riker is bad,
but not that bad. I hope they change Sisko with someone else.
Nancy Lopez
>I happen to like Sisko ... He is firm as a commander should be.
>
>mathew
Add me to the list of those folks who like Sisko! Not only is he
wonderful as the commander of DS9, he is a very handsome man!
nancy in new mexico
Lop...@apsicc.aps.edu nlo...@delphi.com
John R Coffey
>I feel the Sisko character stinks. He's as stiff as a rock. Riker is bad,
>but not that bad. I hope they change Sisko with someone else.
Or change sisko. he is stiff as a rock. Avery Brooks is a great actor,
but they aren't making good use of him.
Fred Jones
>
>I feel the Sisko character stinks. He's as stiff as a rock. Riker is bad,
>but not that bad. I hope they change Sisko with someone else.
>
You need to look at one important fact. Sisko is the commander of DS9.
As such his position is like that of the captain of a Star Fleet vessel.
Also being that DS9 is at the entrance to the worm hole. Sisko must
be an accomplished diplomat (like Picard). Therefore Sisko has to be
the stable, sensible ROCK like a Picard and not a care free exec who
is free to take chance like Riker. When Riker performs his duty, Picard
as captain will be held responsible (unless Riker is negligent). When
Sisko acts or any DS9 personal act Sisko will be responsible.
Now. I must admit that it is nice to see Sisko loosen up like the
time he fell in love with the lady who projected herself while asleep.
Fred C Jones
Jone...@pirates.armstrong.edu
>>>>>====---*---====<<<<<
Mathew Samuel
G.E.Barkley
1. Boring
2. Characterless
3. He doesn't move his mouth much when he talks
4. His cheeks always look as if he is a hampster and has been storing
toilet paper in them for weeks
5. He is characterless
6. He is boring
7. He is obviously only there because he is black, it is sooo pretentiously
obvious, just like getting a woman captain in Voyager
8. He is boring
9. HE HAS NO PERSONALITY AND CANNOT ACT
Guy.
Kartik Subbarao
Yeah. He was better as "Hawk". One annoying thing that I'm beginning to notice
is the affected "ultra-calm" face and speaking mannerism of his. This is a
pity, because it gives him far less chance to project his character through
his voice like Picard does.
Example:
``Chief. <real long pause here>. See if you can get the
transporters online.''
It's as if he's concentrating on what to say, rather than the intent behind it.
Sisko literally says every stupid syllable in the word before moving on to the
next one. Even Algore speaks better than he does!
-Kartik
Christopher K. Koenigsberg
Brooks-as-Sisko has been impressing me very much from time to time
ever since his great performance and great lines in the premiere DS9
episode. The most recent "Maquis Pt. 2" had some great Sisko moments
too. All kinds of facial expressions with no need for words, that sort
of thing. The interplay between him and Dukat, and the Federation
colonial rep, were powerful.
Mark Hald
-some- good episodes. I was impressed more with the Maquis shows than
most others. It's real good to see some "space-action", rather than some
sap story like TNG has been doing lately. [Sad, I say - they started the
7th off very well, and fell into this gooey trap]
Sisko actually showed a little emotion. And that Cmdr. Calvin Whatever, I
wished I taped the Maquis so I could rewind everytime the guy spoke. Was
he chewing tobacco or something?
I really hope he's not the commander because he's black and Paramount
wants to be "politically correct." I hate this PC shit. Anybody see NYPD
Blue last week? Det. Sipowicz [sp?] nailed it right on the head.
In this message, I will not put a <G>, a smiley face, an asterisk instead of
letters in colorful words, or say African American as long as I'm calling
myself white.
Thanks: I had to get that all out.
Christoph Koerner
>I feel the Sisko character stinks. He's as stiff as a rock. Riker is bad,
>but not that bad. I hope they change Sisko with someone else.
I'm afraid that alone wouldn't do. They would have to change the Sisko
_character_ as well. Sisko, and virtually all the other characters on
DS9, with the exception of O'Brien, suffer both from bland acting and
the _awfully_ boring scripts.
In other words, the Seaquest-syndrome. :-)
(Although, I concede, in a slightly milder form.)
Christoph
--
Christoph Koerner |
chri...@pc-labor.uni-Bremen.de | "Wizard, your life force is running out."
Timothy Phillips
>I think Sisko is these things:
>
>1. Boring
>2. Characterless
>3. He doesn't move his mouth much when he talks
>4. His cheeks always look as if he is a hampster and has been storing
> toilet paper in them for weeks
Yep, it was a bad casting decision to pick Brookes as Sisko. Thank God he's in
a programme that isn't worth watching anyway - with the possible exception of
Odo.
Tim
Jonathan J. Hunt
>but not that bad. I hope they change Sisko with someone else.
>
Me too.
Dirk Loedding
Ge> I think Sisko is these things:
[other opinions of Sisko (Avery Brooks, actually) snipped]
Ge> 7. He is obviously only there because he is black, it is sooo
Ge> pretentiously obvious, just like getting a woman captain in Voyager
How racist of you...and sexist too.
I hope someone gets to you and teaches you some real lessons about real
life someday. You'll need them.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
Matthew Teague
>but not that bad. I hope they change Sisko with someone else.
>
Hmmmm. Well, i'll leap into a defense of Sisko, just to annoy you. :-)
Stiff? No, i would say reserved. Much less so that Picard, much more so
than Kirk. He is not afraid to have or show emotion, and does not feel
that it would remove his ability to command. At the same time, he does
his best to make command decisions with his head.
But he has had several scenes that ONLY he could have done. Not Kirk, not
Picard not Riker, not anyone but Sisko if you wanted it done even remotely
well.
I am horrible at remembering episode names, please forgive. But here
they are:
The one with the Cardassian child raised by Bajorans
After Bashir barges in and screws up a talk with Gul Dukat,
"Don't mention it. It's been the high point of my day."
I don't think i've ever seen a look containing more of a
warning in ANY Star Trek character.
The one with the trill who tried to steal Jadzia's symbiote
"Don't call me Benjamin, Varad" <Fires phasor>
The planet where technology didn't work, crazy lady in charge of community
Sisko wordlessly refuses water and goes back into the box, knowing
it will probably kill him, to make his point.
etc. Hopefully someone who can do episode names better than myself
can help strengthen the argument.
In all honesty i think Sisko's character is only marginally less outstanding
than Picard. And that ONLY because i have to admire Picard's ruthlessness
towards his own emotions....no matter HOW important something may be to
Picard, it will NOT interfere with what he knows to be his moral duty.
Period. (Yes, go figure, i'm a huge Data and Worf fan, too.)
=========
Matt Teague
Always remember: 1.) Police are not your friends.
2.) Especially Worcester Police.
3.) Fire burns.
4.) You can't fly.
5.) Cars are always real, even when they're not.
Joe Khan
(Dirk Loedding) wrote:
Amen. One of the many reasons I enjoy watching the ST shows is because
they envision a future in which humanity has risen above the thinking of
individuals such as Mr. Ge...@ukc.ac.uk.
Chiung-I Hwang
Hwang@BDFT#3
ST2...@vm.cc.latech.edu
is bland, boring, and stiff as a board ( besides Dax who I was pleased to see
get a personality and her own identity this season). Brooks is a good actor
but his potrayal of Sisko just seems off. Ever notice how his reactions to
a troubling situation is met by a matter-of-factly and disinteresed tone of
voice almost like "ok, if I must" meek and timid attitude - nowhere near the
command presence of Picard. However, I must say that as of late I was
impressed with the interaction with Dax-when he was trying to stop the blood-
oath trip, and the scenes with Dukat where the stiffness seems appropriate.
It seems that "The Maquis" may be an episode to help "pump-up" the Sisko
character. I hope something is done. I've taken to calling him "the
walking dead". Just MHO.
Does that disinteresed tone bother anyone else?
G.E.Barkley
I would like to say that I am NOT racist or sexist, but I do think it is
pretty obvious that they wanted a BLACK person for DS9 and a WOMAN foer
Voyager.
That is rather pretentious I think.
No offensive meant.
Guy,
Super Chien Huey
>Hmmmm. Well, i'll leap into a defense of Sisko, just to annoy you. :-)
>Stiff? No, i would say reserved. Much less so that Picard, much more so
>than Kirk. He is not afraid to have or show emotion, and does not feel
>that it would remove his ability to command. At the same time, he does
>his best to make command decisions with his head.
I tend to agree. First of all, in defense of Riker (whom I nicknamed Crazy
Uncle Joe for his wild nature), I think that Riker is very different from
Picard. As you saw from the Alexander/Worf episode not too long ago, he is
quite a different captain, not to mention character from Picard. Quite
honestly, I think he's more interesting than Picard (maybe this is because
it's been 7 seasons of Picard). Don't get me wrong, I REALLY like Picard
but there is life after Picard :) I think that judging all future and
present lead characters on ST (i.e. Sisko and hopefully Crazy Uncle Joe)
using Picard as the de-facto standard is a mistake.
To Sisko's defense. . . . I think that the guys behind DS9 made a conscious
effort to develop the auxilary characters of DS9 rather than the lead. By
developing characters like Bashir, O'Brien (yay!!!), Odo (double yay!!!),
Quark, and Kira (I know there's more) early in the series, they are trying
to reduce the Deanna Troi -- "I take up space on the bridge syndrome."
However, one down side to this is that Sisko's character development gets
less attention. But even his development hasn't been bad considering that
there are so many different characters and scenarios that DS9 has made
possible.
Furthermore, I think that along the lines of actually developing Sisko's
character, I think that the writers are being very hesitant and very
cautious. Why? I think they want to avoid too much heat from the black
community and supporters. They don't want to make his character too
stereotypical yet, they must innoculate themselves from attacks like "well,
you're attributing white characteristics to a black man." And you know that
saying that since stereotypes and racism is nonexistent in the future,
Ben Sisko represents Ben Sisko unique to himself, won't quell that
argument. The counterpoint will always be "but we're living in the 1990's"
You know, I'm really sick of this whole BLACK-WHITE-BROWN-YELLOW-ORANGE-
GREEN-VIOLET-INDIGO problem that people have. Can't we all stop being so
stupid, I know I try to.
SCH
Chien Huey, Communication Major**********************************************
"I'm watching you."
-Odo
Cornell University, Ithaca, New York*****************************************
Dirk Loedding
Ge> Ooooohh dear, I knew I was in trouble when I wrote that.
You shoulda kept sitting on your hands and not said what you did, then.
Ge> I would like to say that I am NOT racist or sexist, but I do think it
Ge> is pretty obvious that they wanted a BLACK person for DS9 and a WOMAN
Ge> foer Voyager.
Talk about speaking out of both sides of your mouth. You're not racist
or sexist, yet you say that the *ONLY* reason Avery Brooks works for
Paramount is because he's black. That's racist. And only a racist would
make a remark like that, in my opinion. Same goes for whoever they cast
as the captain of the Voyager. Saying that whoever it is will only get
the job because they are female is a sexist comment, and only a sexist
pig would make a comment like that, again in my opinion.
I happen to like the casting of Avery as Ben Sisko. So he's black? Who
gives a damn? I sure don't. I'm glad they were able to cast an actor
with so much talent. I like the idea of a female captain. It's a
concept they toyed with in "Yesterday's Enterprise", and in "Interface".
If they do it half as well as they did in YE, I'll have no complaint. I
will complain if the woman is "just another pretty face."
Ge> That is rather pretentious I think.
What is pretentious? That they might have wanted to do something a
little different?
What I think is pretentious is for you to be spouting these racist and
sexist remarks, and then try to claim you're not racist or sexist. It
just does not wash.
Ge> No offensive meant.
You mean, "no offense meant?" Sure doesn't sound like it. And if
you're offended by what I wrote, good. I *like* offendind racists and
sexists. It makes my day. There's too many people with attitudes like
yours. If I can get even one to think about what they're saying, I feel
like I've won.
... Two most common elements in the universe: Hydrogen & Stupidity.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
Joe Khan
I won't deny that Paramount obviously wanted a woman for Voyager, but I
don't see anything "pretentious" in that whatsoever. When a part is
auditioned for, the character isn't described as "30-ish ethnic-unspecific
individual with spouse." Every leading part is specifically written for
either a man or a woman. So what the hell is pretentious about making the
next Captain a woman? I could understand your argument being applicable
if, say, they were making a Civil War movie, and they decided to make a
general female -- it's a historical fact that women couldn't have that
status. But when you're talking about the future, PARTICULARLY the
Roddenbery-imagined future, what in god's name prohibits a woman from
having command of her own ship? Plenty of TNG episodes have featured women
commanding Starfleet ships (perfect example -- the alternate universe/time
episode where Yar went back in time to fight). In the human race, and
probably in many alien races as well, women make up half of the population.
It's about time that we as an audience are offered the character depth
possible with a mother-, rather than a father-, figure on the bridge. I'm
not downplaying the richness offered by the specifically male
characteristics of Kirk (particularly Kirk), Picard and Sisko. But there
are other angles that deserve to be covered. Troi, Crusher, Kira, and
others have offered interesting character development. But none of them
have ever been the focus of the series, and we all know it. Shatner,
Stewart and Brooks all appear as the first name on their respective series.
As far as Sisko's concerned, there's nothing to indicate there was a racial
preference. From what I hear, it was open to anyone, and Brooks got the
job. Even still, I don't condemn Paramount if they did in fact want a
black actor (which, from my admiration for Brooks' ability to make the most
of mediocre writing, is doubtful). While blacks may make up a statistical
minority in the U.S., people of African descent make up a significant
number of the world population. It's not that unlikely that in the future
there would be as many black officers in Starfleet as white officers as
other human officers. What's pretentious about designating the part for a
black man? Was it pretentious to make the role of Picard one for a
Frenchman? The nice thing about Trek, as we first saw with Uhura, Sulu,
Chekhov and Scotty, is that among the humans, there's hope for some
diversity working after all.
Perhaps, living in a different country, your perspective is a bit
different, Mr. Broccoli. Perhaps you are familiar with the situation of
affairs in America. Either way, I suggest that you take your pretentious
head out of your pretentious ass.
-JK
Thomas Newton Bagwell
that we're not looking at a clone of Kirk or Picard, but somebody with a
new approach. His acting is excellent, and I think he portrays a
commander very well. It's nice to finally see a captain who's not always
trying to win popularity contests with his staff.
Boucher David
#>>
#>>I feel the Sisko character stinks. He's as stiff as a rock. Riker is bad,
#>>but not that bad. I hope they change Sisko with someone else.
#
#I too, feel that Sisko seriously needs help! He is the only character that
#is bland, boring, and stiff as a board ( besides Dax who I was pleased to see
#get a personality and her own identity this season). Brooks is a good actor
#but his potrayal of Sisko just seems off. Ever notice how his reactions to
#a troubling situation is met by a matter-of-factly and disinteresed tone of
#voice almost like "ok, if I must" meek and timid attitude - nowhere near the
#command presence of Picard. However, I must say that as of late I was
#impressed with the interaction with Dax-when he was trying to stop the blood-
#oath trip, and the scenes with Dukat where the stiffness seems appropriate.
On the other hand, maybe he's just supposed to be a bureacratic log,
not a swashbuckler. Instead of trying to turn him into some kind
of dynamo, maybe they should really do something with it, e.g., have
him struggling to deal with the other characters regarding him as
a rigid and not very imaginative bureacrat.
- db
--
****** "It is a capital mistake to theorise before one has data. ******
****** Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories ******
****** instead of theories to suit facts." - Sherlock Holmes ******
*************************************************************************
The Sandman
: Ooooohh dear, I knew I was in trouble when I wrote that.
The problem with that argument is that you could just as easily say
they wanted a WHITE MALE for picards role, but that doesn't occur to
people as quickly.
James.
G.R.A.Lambert
1. I resent the comment that I am racist or sexist
2. I resent being verbally insulted by other people on this net in a
completely unnecessary way. If you wish to comment on what I say, please
do so in appropriate language, and do not swear at me or criticise my
origin. If you think I AM racist, try re-examining your comment on
my country.
3. I feel I have unncessarily upset people and they have leaped on the
wrong side of my argument. What I simply think was that Paramount was
exercising positive discrimination a bit too obviously, with a bald chap
one series, a black man, then a woman. I am NOT saying any of these
people cannot do their job or shouldn't be given an opportunity to, I
just got the impression that Avery Brooks was only hired because of his
ethnic origin, and not because of his acting skills. I think this is
a perfectly reasonable observation, and not one based on personal
prejudices.
4. I find racism utterly abhorent, and would never support it, but I think
I AM allowed to speak my mind about observations I make about casting
policy. Ok, maybe it seemed inappropriate to include this observation when
I said I didn't like Sisko, but out of that context I think my comment
is still valid.
I think certain people on this net should read things clearly before they
leap at people for their observations, and I find the extreme criticism very
disturbing and unncessary. I think you should let people say what they think
and listen to their points before you jump on their every word in an
inappropriate way.
I hope this matter is settled now, and the offensive remarks made against me
will stop/
Guy.
Michael P Urban
>I would like to say that I am NOT racist or sexist, but I do think it is
>pretty obvious that they wanted a BLACK person for DS9 and a WOMAN foer
>Voyager.
>
>That is rather pretentious I think.
This is sort of a no-win situation for the producers. When the
character concepts are written, you have to specify male or female.
Some essay questions:
Why would you decide to make a captain character a female? Why not?
If you choose a woman, is it tokenism? Is it necessarily a Social
Statement? Or is it just an artistic decision? How can the viewer
tell the difference?
The character sketches usually mention race or ethnicity (or, in the
case of Star Trek, species) along with other outlines of the `type'
for the character (anyone else remember the original character
outlines for TNG? Where Crusher had `the body of a stripper' and
Tasha was intended as Hispanic?). The same questions apply. It
should be noted that currently, if the race or ethnicity of a
character is _not_ mentioned, the null assumption is usually `white
Protestant', and the casting auditions for the part will reflect that
assumption.
Mike Urban
G.R.A.Lambert
I think the casting of black people is fine
I think that the casting of the commander is DS9 was really done on ethnic
grounds
I think that this is rather prententious, but WOULD NOT have been had Star
Trek also involved more black characters. Sisko stands out as obviously put
there as he is black because there are NO OTHER black characters in DS9.
I would welcome more black officiers, black aliens and black admirals etc,
but they are NOT there. Thus, one wonders whether the producers really want
black people in the show, or just put one in there (with the son, of course)
to appease the political correct people.
Just a thought. Probably isn't based on fact, but that is MY OBSERVATION.
Apologies to anyone I offended, but it was purely unintentional I promise. Some
of my friends back home are black, and, for the record, I went out with a black
girl for a few months when I was 12.
Guy.
just another theatre geek
Translation: Some of my best friends are....
but I do think it is
>pretty obvious that they wanted a BLACK person for DS9 and a WOMAN foer
>Voyager.
Correct on the latter, incorrect for the first...unless you count
Siddig El Fadil as black (remember that he was being considered for the
Sisko role in the beginnin....).
>That is rather pretentious I think.
Yes, you are.
--
Roger Tang, gwan...@u.washington.edu, Artistic Director PC Theatre
The most unAmerican thing you can say is "He/she makes too much money."
R. Dan Henry
>From: ge...@ukc.ac.uk (G.E.Barkley)
>Subject: Re: Who else hates Sisko?
>Date: Wed, 04 May 94 11:40:06 GMT
>Ooooohh dear, I knew I was in trouble when I wrote that.
>I would like to say that I am NOT racist or sexist, but I do think it is
>pretty obvious that they wanted a BLACK person for DS9 and a WOMAN foer
>Voyager.
>That is rather pretentious I think.
Pretentious?
>No offensive meant.
>Guy,
Hey, they picked a white, male American type to captain TOS... gee, I bet
that was just because they brought in all the actors they could find and
picked the best one, not because it was part of the character concept to
begin with. Right.
Worf is there in order to have a KLINGON character. Is that pretentious,
too?
* R. Dan Henry, Dept. of Philosophy, UC Riverside *
* rdh...@ucrac1.ucr.edu * "Strange Dan" the Wereduck*
* "Can I still get an A if I only answered half the *
* questions?" - student, at end of final *
R. Dan Henry
of what he's feeling not for personal reasons, but for tactical reasons. He
reads people and tries not to let them read him. He doesn't seem stiff to me
in situations where he's relaxed, but naturally, we don't see those
situations very often.
Super Chien Huey
>I would welcome more black officiers, black aliens and black admirals etc,
>but they are NOT there. Thus, one wonders whether the producers really want
>black people in the show, or just put one in there (with the son, of course)
>to appease the political correct people.
Although I would agree that Mr. Lambert did not exercise good judgment by
posting the original "Who else hates Sisko?" post, I don't think that he
really deserves the attacks he is receiving after he clarified his premise.
I am not defending his original post -- it was an awfully dumb thing to do,
but he has since clarified what he meant and I do not see any reason to
continue calling him a racist.
It may be that he is just trying to diffuse the anger he roused towards him
by trying to moderate his position. It may be that he is truly a racist.
BUT going purely by what he wrote in this last post (which I have
excerpted), he is not a racist.
I happen to agree with his premise. If Berman and gang were really that
progressive, how come the only women in Starfleet seem to be admirals? How
come Deanna Troi has been such a non-character until this season? How come
most of the alien captains they encounter are women? How come when you
watch DS9 shots of the promenade, there are few black faces? Look, if they
really did believe that racism is stupid and that they will try to change
attitudes using ST as a medium why can I raise the questions I just did.
That's because like it or not, they used Sisko as an appeasement. Don't get
me wrong, as you can tell from a previous post, I like Sisko, I'm willing to
give him a chance. BUT the fact remains, Mr. Lambert has a point.
Finally, I know that this post can backfire and that I can be attacked for
defending Mr. Lambert. HOWEVER, if you read this entire post, I hope that
you will realize that I represent an ALTERNATIVE view on this heated issue
BUT that I AM NOT A RACIST.
Of course, if I am attacked unfairly, rest assured, I will defend myself.
Mark E Sherwood
: Ok, final word from me on this racism issue I accidentally started up
: I think the casting of black people is fine
How very white of you.
(That's a joke, by the way. no flames please)
: I think that the casting of the commander is DS9 was really done on ethnic
: grounds
I do not agree. It may have _a_ consideration, but I sincerely doubt if it
was not the _only_ consideration. Maybe they discussed having an African
American (remember, we're being PC here) as the commander when they were
developing the show. Maybe they did make a conscious effort when
casting. But they didn't throw a bunch of pictures in a barrel and pick
one out. Maybe I'm out of line here, but I like to think that Paramount
picked Brooks because they thought he was the best man for the job. If
it was a tie between him and someone else, then maybe his race broke that
tie, but to suggest that a person got his job because of his color, is
wrong. Whether you think he can do the job or not, whether you consider
yourself a racist or not, it's just wrong.
I like Avery Brooks. I think he is a fantastic actor and is playing the
Sisko character just as it should be played. He has a certain presence
that can not be denied. It was his characterization of Hawk that made
Spenser for Hire worth watching, just as it is Sisko (and Odo) that
make DS9 worth watching.
The previous two paragraphs have been my own opinions. Just as your
opinions and your observations are your own. This is not intended as a
flame. I merely want to make a friendly suggestion if I may. If you ever
feel you have to include the phrase "I don't mean to offend, but..." or
"No offense meant..." or any of the many variations, then chances are
that whether you mean it or not, you are going to offend. Any time you
feel the need to write "I'm no racist, but..." then chances are the next
sentence you type is going to make people believe that a racist is
exactly what you are. I do it myself and have realized that is is
better to reword the post or not post it at all. Most times anyway.
Every now and then I can't help shooting my mouth off and I usually end
up saying something I didn't mean to say or something that gets taken
the wrong way and I almost always get flamed for it. The only time it
bothers me now is when I look back and realize that the flamer was right.
Mark S.
Boston, MA (USA)
Janis Maria C. C. Cortese
>In article <29...@rook.ukc.ac.uk>, G.E.Barkley <ge...@ukc.ac.uk> wrote:
>>I would like to say that I am NOT racist or sexist,
>
> Translation: Some of my best friends are....
>
> but I do think it is
>>pretty obvious that they wanted a BLACK person for DS9 and a WOMAN foer
>>Voyager.
>
> Correct on the latter, incorrect for the first...unless you count
>Siddig El Fadil as black (remember that he was being considered for the
>Sisko role in the beginnin....).
Black, Arabic . . . who can tell those people apart? (insert sarcasm
alert for the mentally impaired)
>>That is rather pretentious I think.
>
> Yes, you are.
Logic, Roger? Come, come.
Regards,
Janis the net.proud.hussy
Janis Cortese || President and Founder: SEFEB, and The ||
cor...@netcom.com || Society of People Who Would Love to ||
Net Loudmouthed Bitchy || Shove a Stick Up Rush Limbaugh's Ass; ||
Renaissance Woman and || and Member of The Star Fleet Ladies' ||
General All-Around Hussy || Auxiliary and Embroidery/Baking Society ||
=====================================================================||
I used to be a bitch and just thought it was my problem. ||
Now, I've learned to make it everyone else's problem, too. ||
========================Un! Znqr lbh ybbx!============================
That wierd guy
>I think that the casting of the commander is DS9 was really done on ethnic
>Trek also involved more black characters. Sisko stands out as obviously put
>there as he is black because there are NO OTHER black characters in DS9.
Uh, he does stand out sorta. But, if you look, how many humans are on DS9?
Only O'Brien, Bashir, and Sisko are humans from the main cast(well unless you
wish to count Jake), and all of them each come from different ethnic groups.
The other members of the main cast are either a Bajoran, a Shapeshifter,
a Ferengi, or a Trill. Even in the line up of bit characters, most of them
are aliens. So just because Sisko stands out, is not just because of his
color, it just helps him a bit more in that respect. Also, I believe
one of Odo's starfleet security people is black. Sisko isn't the only one.
--
Geordie: "Worf, we may have a ___________
slight security problem." | |\
Worf: "Who needs to be killed?" | |---|__\ Jay H. Anderson
-- TNG Book #30 Debtor's Planet \/ | \ gt4...@prism.gatech.edu
U52...@uicvm.uic.edu
ever seen but he is still hasn't gotten over the death of his wife in my
opinion. This doesn't make him a bad person. In fact, it adds some conflict and
tension that makes the show more interesting.
I myself couldn't believe that he used to play Hawk on Spencer for Hire but
over time I've gotten used to him. He's not the perfect commander like Kirk and
Picard, but consider that he's still relatively young and could yet develop
into quite a leader.
"It only takes a little bit of greed to get a whole lot of stuff."
- Mister Boffo
ROBERTO CASTILLO
John D. Eslinger
without charactor is Odo. On the next Deep Space Nine observe him.
DigitalDoctorª BBS
DanielR573
John_D._...@digidoc1.uu.holonet.net (John D. Eslinger) writes:
"I don't hate him ..."
I do! He's more wooden than Al Gore, and his role is far too minor. The
Maquis was an improvement for him, but he's got some work to do.
Turin Turambar
> Don't be so hard on Sisko. Granted he's about as depressing a character as I've
> ever seen but he is still hasn't gotten over the death of his wife in my
> opinion. This doesn't make him a bad person. In fact, it adds some conflict and
> tension that makes the show more interesting.
I have to ask myself exactly how much of the emnity is directed not to Sisko
per se, but rather to Avery Brooks. I know that in some sense the reaction is
dependent on the both of them, but I for one, though I've no problem with
Sisko's lines or his overall personality (what there is of it), I find the
delivery and the presentation of his character to be rather uninspired.
You are right in pointing out that he has a background rich for character
development, but so far I haven't seen that much explored on DS9. In fact, I
don't even get the impression from watching the show that he is the main
character.
One of the things that is good about TNG and DS9 in comparison with TOS is that
all of the "supporting" cast members get good shows and decent character
development, whereas Sulu, Chekov, and Uhura (Scotty is a possible exception)
could have been easily replaced by cardboad stills at times. However, taken to
the extreme that it is in DS9, I find the overall effect to be unviable
dramatically: one is left with the sense that there are no leaders, no "main
characters", which are truly necessary in a dramatic situation.
>
> ROBERTO CASTILLO
--
--Adam
============================================================================
| Adam John Cooper | "Wahrlich, ich lachte oft der Schwaechlinge, |
| tura...@eng.umd.edu | welche sich gut glauben, weil sie |
| aco...@macalstr.edu | lahme Tatzen haben." |
| (301) 314-6760 | --Nietzsche |
============================================================================
| "Understand one another? I fear I am beyond your comprehension."-Gandalf |
============================================================================
Kyle Leslie Steider
good actor? He expresses only three emotions: fear, anger and
baseball, and overacts all three to the point that Shatner
himself would cringe. Fire the bum, or kill him off, and take
Jake with him, dammit.
I'm hoping Voyager's capitan isn't another Ben... but
now that Trek's a franchise, I may be disappointed. Way to go,
Paramount...
BRP Publications
of that is that none of the characters have been well established. I
like Sisko, but I'm not totally sure why yet. The rest of the characters
started out pretty flat (quark has managed to extend the Ferengi
character past pure comic relief, but the whole Ferengi race gets a
little tiresome--I wish they'd play up their "demonicness" a little bit
more) but have been developing some depth lately.
I think DS9 has yet to begin to explore its potential. There's about a
zillion ways to go at this point, and I look forward to more Gamma
Quadrant stories in the future.
I think Sisko began to come out a little bit in the Maquis stories,
particularly the "speech" he gives Kira about Federation policy and the
need to understand the Maquis' motivations. It's the first time you get
a real sense of the frustrations of the kind of command he's running
(kind of like being a UN peacekeeper in Bosnia...officially neutral,
therefore cold and logical, but just under the surface there's some
seething emotional involvement/conflict). This was the best expression
I've seen since the Picard/Sisko exchange in re. the Borg incident...
Give the show some time. I just saw some reruns of the first season of
TNG for the first time in years. It stunk. DS9 is way ahead of that,
and has already begun to develop the complexity of storyline that will
keep the show interesting for years. As it becomes the standard-bearer
for trek when TNG finishes, I think Sisko and DS9 will both develop nicely.
Nate Zelnick
just another theatre geek
Christoph Koerner <chri...@zarniwoop.pc-labor.uni-bremen.de> wrote:
>I'm afraid that alone wouldn't do. They would have to change the Sisko
>_character_ as well. Sisko, and virtually all the other characters on
>DS9, with the exception of O'Brien, suffer both from bland acting and
>the _awfully_ boring scripts.
Rene Auberjenois, Nana Visitor and Armin Shimerman are turning in
BLAND work??????
Sorry, don't think so.
The scripting isn't up to LAW AND ORDER or PICKET FENCES, but Rene,
Nana and Armin do pretty decent work.....
Max Behara
I don't! He's almost my favourite of the 3 commanders. And you
should watch more carefully. Avery Brooks is not being wooden in his
acting. In fact you can see him seething and bubbling under the constraint
he puts himself under. He's a vulcano ready to blow.
You want wooden? Check out Cmdr. Sinclair on babylon 5.
--
Max Behara
Molly: "DS+MC" Bt+W C 1.3 X+++ L W- C+ I+++ T+ H+ S+ V+ P- E- A+
"The Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it." - John Gilmore
Ayrton Senna (1960-1994) Roland Ratzenberger (1962-1994)
Dean Adams
>I think DS9 has had a lot of trouble getting started in general, and part
>of that is that none of the characters have been well established. I
>like Sisko, but I'm not totally sure why yet. The rest of the characters
I'd say Sisko is the only one who has *stayed* flat. One thing that
particularly bothers me about him is the way he TALKS. Very flat,
monotone, and dull. Even worse, a lot of the time it sounds like
he is reading off cue cards "phonetically" or something, the way he
seems to pronounce each syllable separately. Its very strange...
In the next episode it looks like Kira is in command of the
station in the alternate universe. Now THAT sure would make
the regular show a lot more interesting...
Rob Heppenstall
DS9 is dull.
If Q replaced the entire cast with cardboard cutouts no-one would notice.
Or maybe replace the Sicko flid with the talking dolpin out of that other
crap series.
.opinion off
Robh.
sl...@cc.usu.edu
> In article <2qm5br$2...@access2.digex.net> brp...@access.digex.net (BRP Publications) writes:
>>I think DS9 has had a lot of trouble getting started in general, and part
>>of that is that none of the characters have been well established. I
>>like Sisko, but I'm not totally sure why yet. The rest of the characters
>>started out pretty flat ...
I have to disagree. The characters have much more depth than the ST:TNG
characters had in their first season. One of the main reasons for this is most
of the characters have foils, such as Sisko and Kira, Odo and Quark, and
O'brian and Bashir. Best of all, the crew actually disagrees with each other
once in a while :)
>
> I'd say Sisko is the only one who has *stayed* flat. One thing that
> particularly bothers me about him is the way he TALKS. Very flat,
> monotone, and dull. Even worse, a lot of the time it sounds like
> he is reading off cue cards "phonetically" or something, the way he
> seems to pronounce each syllable separately. Its very strange...
I agree that Sisko is the most flat, by far. However this last 2 part episode
really helped alot. He has improved.
Colin
SL...@cc.usu.edu
rghh...@news.delphi.com
to do wiht the fact that he's such a departure from the other two commanders.
Sisko's main concern is always maintain a presence of command. This
overriding mentality informs everything that he does. Picard started out
like this, but the writers have found it necessary to soften him up
considerably over the years (and surprise! he was just as rebellious when
he was younger as Kirk always was). I could see where people would
interpret this as wooden, but watch him closely, there's a lot more going
there.
Steve P.
Ron C Carman
>I'd say Sisko is the only one who has *stayed* flat. One thing that
>particularly bothers me about him is the way he TALKS. Very flat,
>monotone, and dull. Even worse, a lot of the time it sounds like
>he is reading off cue cards "phonetically" or something, the way he
>seems to pronounce each syllable separately. Its very strange...
I have to agree. Brooks has an incredible voice, but on DSN, he
always seems to be trying to restrain it... I went back and compared
his vocal work in DSN to a few old episodes of "Spenser" and the
contrast is striking.
The writers of DSN need to let him start using that voice more
often, not to mention giving him some real background.
Ron Carman
--
| Ron C. Carman || That's the trouble with feeling as if you're |
| rcca...@mik.uky.edu || on top of the world. It's always a sure sign |
| rcca...@ukpr.uky.edu || you and it are about to switch places. |
| U.S. SnailMAIL: P.O. Box 24352 Lexington, KY 40524-4352 |
sl...@cc.usu.edu
I agree, especially after the recent 2 part episode. Sisko was much improved
in it, and I thinks it partly because he got to take more of an active role.
After watching those two episodes, I'm willing to give him a chance to grow
like Picard has.
Colin
SL...@cc.usu.edu
BRP Publications
Ron C Carman <rcca...@mik.uky.edu> wrote:
>In <dadamsCp...@netcom.com> dad...@netcom.com (Dean Adams) writes:
>
>>I'd say Sisko is the only one who has *stayed* flat. One thing that
>>particularly bothers me about him is the way he TALKS. Very flat,
>>monotone, and dull. Even worse, a lot of the time it sounds like
>>he is reading off cue cards "phonetically" or something, the way he
>>seems to pronounce each syllable separately. Its very strange...
>
> I have to agree. Brooks has an incredible voice, but on DSN, he
>always seems to be trying to restrain it... I went back and compared
>his vocal work in DSN to a few old episodes of "Spenser" and the
>contrast is striking.
> The writers of DSN need to let him start using that voice more
>often, not to mention giving him some real background.
>
everybody. I was half watching a TNG rerun the other day and realized
that Bashir was in it...(I know, I should have been paying more
attention, but I often work at home) although I don't think it sheds too
much light on his character, does anybody remember which episode that was?
I'd love to see more on Sisko's past (we just got that little taste in
the pilot). I think it might help to create some more depth then the
current Stoic mourner struggling to raise a teen-age son by himself that
we have now.
Nate Zelnick
jero...@news.delphi.com
finding oout that he is related to men who sang with the Delta Rhythm
Boys and the Wings Over Jordan choir I have even more reasons to like him.
Sashi Alexandra German
>Sisko bites. Sucks. Who in the world thinks this guy is a
>good actor? He expresses only three emotions: fear, anger and
>baseball, and overacts all three to the point that Shatner
>himself would cringe. Fire the bum, or kill him off, and take
>Jake with him, dammit.
Kyle --
Anyone who, like myself, saw actor Avery Brooks at the Ft. Washington,
Pennsylvania convention last month can take the time to refute what
you're saying about Brook's acting abilities.
The biggest shocker for most in the audience upon seeing Brooks
(Aside from the fact that he was bald - he just come from filming
another "Spencer: For Hire" movie), was the fact that he was so
incredibly animated... he laughed and roared and was just a WONDERFUL
person!
People in the audience asked him about his portrayal of Sisko... and
he said he saw the character as A MILITARY MAN. That meant (To him)
that he would not be a sociable individual with the people under his
command.. he would never yell or shout or smile too much in front
of them. He said he played Sisko very sternly because he felt that was
how commanders in the military were.
And there were two military people IN THE AUDIENCE who got up and told
him that he was *correct* in how he imagined Sisko in this way. So Brooks
feels like he is on the right track.
Also, someone on here recently, I think in relation to the "I hate Sisko"
poll, mentioned how our DS9 commander seemed overly angry in the brief
first season but has actually gone beyond that now. I would tend to agree.
Looking at it from a psychological point of view, Sisko had A LOT to mean
and angry about... in relation to Picard, the death of his wife, etc.
Often three years is not enough to completely get over (if ever) the
death of a spous or other family member.
LL+P,
Sashi German
Philadelphia, PA Star Trek Club (Starfleet)
sa...@feith.com
vgho...@delphi.com
remind me an awful lot of the criticism that Picard and "TNG"
got during that series' first two seasons. Back in '87, the
bad-mouthing "TNG" received was probably justified--Stewart
was stiff, Picard was too old to be an exciting captain, the
scripts sucked, the counselor was annoying, and so on.
And, now, look at how the series is thought of today. In 1987,
the very idea of "TNG" was thought of as a blasphemy to the
original series. Maybe it was, but eventually things worked
out. Why is it that "DS9"'s harshest critics seem to have
forgotten this.
As for Sisko, I totally agree with your assessment, but I
would go further: He's a lot more humorous in his comments
toward his adversaries than Picard. Viewers have to watch
Brooks' actions carefully--but if they even bother, they'll
find that Sisko is viciously sarcastic in an extremely subtle
way, and Brooks conveys this very well. A number of my colleagues
involved in acting pointed this out to me as an example of
Brooks' talent. For the character Sisko, this works well since
the commander carries the duties of not only running DS9 but
playing diplomat as well. In diplomacy, things said and done
have multiple meanings.
Second, compared to Picard, Sisko--while not necessarily a
"popular" leader--is a more realistic one. I can easily imagine
him as a supervisor or V.P. at a company, for instance. Someone
who has to make careful decisions, though ones that are often
not popular to those he leads but who is, nonetheless, respected
for his choices and his overall leadership. Picard, while a good
character, has never felt like a "real" leader to me. For
example, I can't see him as captain of a Navy ship, but can quickly
see someone like Sisko in charge of, say, U.N. forces occupying
an airport in a war-torn country. I feel this realistic aspect
of Sisko helps a lot to underscore the political climate of "DS9".
prha...@unity.ncsu.edu
In article <1994May9.1...@Virginia.EDU>, kl...@Virginia.EDU (Kyle Leslie Steider) writes:
> Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
> Path: taco.cc.ncsu.edu!inxs.concert.net!concert!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!maxwell!kls6x
> From: kl...@Virginia.EDU (Kyle Leslie Steider)
> Subject: Re: Who else hates Sisko?
> Organization: University of Virginia
> References: <2qdqme$f...@news.u.washington.edu>
> Date: Mon, 9 May 94 11:58:18 EDT
> Lines: 9
Here's my $.02:
You know who I think would be real cool as Captain? What about the Captain
of the ship Commander Sisko was on when they encountered the Borg & Picard?
I think having a Vulcan captain would be a nice change- all three have been
human (Kirk, Picard, & Sisco). Voyager is as good a time to start something
new.
Pico
Dennis Bailey
>From: ge...@ukc.ac.uk (G.E.Barkley)
>I think Sisko is these things:
>1. Boring
>2. Characterless
>3. He doesn't move his mouth much when he talks
>4. His cheeks always look as if he is a hampster and has been storing
> toilet paper in them for weeks
>5. He is characterless
>6. He is boring
>7. He is obviously only there because he is black, it is sooo pretentiously
> obvious, just like getting a woman captain in Voyager
>8. He is boring
>9. HE HAS NO PERSONALITY AND CANNOT ACT
>Guy.
These posts are certainly helping to break down the unfair stereotype that
americans have of the British: that they're intelligent, witty and polite to
a fault.
Thanks, Barkley. :-)
Dennis Bailey
>Subject: Re: Who else hates Sisko?
>Date: Tue, 3 May 94 14:21:00 +0000
>On 05-02-94 13:00, Ge...@ukc.ac.uk writes:
> Ge> I think Sisko is these things:
>[other opinions of Sisko (Avery Brooks, actually) snipped]
>
> Ge> 7. He is obviously only there because he is black, it is sooo
> Ge> pretentiously obvious, just like getting a woman captain in Voyager
>
>How racist of you...and sexist too.
>I hope someone gets to you and teaches you some real lessons about real
>life someday. You'll need them.
>___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
What, British racism is surprising?
G.R.A.Lambert
racism surprising?"
Personally I am bloody sick of this whole issue which has been blown up
out of all porportion and was based on a false theory anyway.
So bugger the lot of you!
Guy.
--
******************************************************************************
* "But Doctor, I couldn't possibly wear that!" screeched Peri, as the Doctor *
* reached into his 'special' wardrobe, and pulled out a leotard. *
******************************************************************************
Ayson
The character of Ben Sisko is OK. Avery Brooks is soo.... boring.
I can't stand the characterization of Jake Sisko. He's too nice. Why are
all kids in ST so... boring (Note: Wesley). What about a characterization
like Lucas W. of SeaQuest.
Roger M. Wilcox
>In article <2qjb73$6...@search01.news.aol.com> danie...@aol.com (DanielR573) writes:
> I don't! He's almost my favourite of the 3 commanders. And you
>should watch more carefully. Avery Brooks is not being wooden in his
>acting. In fact you can see him seething and bubbling under the constraint
>he puts himself under. He's a vulcano ready to blow.
And that's another race that gets too little airtime on TNG/DS9! :-)
Commander Sisko, as portrayed by Avery Brooks, has this slow, forcibly calm,
eeeeerie speaking voice that seems to say, "I could crush you like a raisin
in my bare hands, but I'm not going to, THIS time." He even talks this way
to his own SON. Yeesh. Somebody ought to get this guy in to see Counselor
Troi (assuming she hasn't had a nervous breakdown yet, she's been ASKING for
one for seven straight seasons).
> You want wooden? Check out Cmdr. Sinclair on babylon 5.
What are you talking about? The two shows have NOTHING to do with each
other! Deeps Space Nine takes place on board a space station in deep space
with a number in its name, has a commander who is at odds with the orders
given to him by his superiors on several occasions, is a meeting place for
all sorts of aliens (some of whom don't like each other), has a bar with
legalized gambling, and is even situated next to this neat-looking space
warp tunnel. Babylon Five, on the other hand, is ... is ... uh, whoops,
never mind....
--
Roger M. Wilcox a.k.a. Jeff Boeing -- tra...@netcom.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"You can't hurt me, Darth Vader! I'm wearing my Dark-Side-of-the-Force-Proof
vest!" -- The Incredible Hero
That wierd guy
>I hate both Siskos.
>I can't stand the characterization of Jake Sisko. He's too nice. Why are
>all kids in ST so... boring (Note: Wesley). What about a characterization
>like Lucas W. of SeaQuest.
As long as Jake hangs around Nog, he's interesting enough for me.
Mark S. Longo
>From: bai...@nih.gov (Dennis Bailey)
>Subject: Re: Who else hates Sisko?
>>___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
Yet you feel secure in stereotyping an entire nation? Interesting...
-Mark
Matthew Barton
: >> Ge> pretentiously obvious, just like getting a woman captain in Voyager
: >>
: >>How racist of you...and sexist too.
OK, who sez the next head-honcho has to be human ?
I place my vote for Voyager el-capitan to be a Labrador Retriever
(Yellow, Black, or Chocolate - it doesn't matter)
Personally, I think
pets are *way*
undercast in today's
"modern" mass-media ...
----\____/----\____/----\____/----\____/----\____/----\____/----\____/
"Well, what's on the television then?"
"Looks like a penguin." - Monty Pythons Flying Circus
-- fa...@rs6000.adm.fau.edu -- Florida Atlantic University, Boca Raton, FL
Nimesh Bipin Dave
>>I'm afraid that alone wouldn't do. They would have to change the Sisko
>>_character_ as well. Sisko, and virtually all the other characters on
>>DS9, with the exception of O'Brien, suffer both from bland acting and
>>the _awfully_ boring scripts.
>
I agree. I think the characters of Sisko and Dax should be eliminated.
Only O'Brien and Quark are really any good -- the others are OK but....
- Nimesh
Russell Stewart
: Somebody said:
Quark grates on my nerves.
--
Russell Stewart "Jim Bakker spells his name with 2 k's
dia...@einet.com because three would be too obvious."
Albuquerque, NM -Bill Maher
Christopher Powers
: - Nimesh
I have to disagree, I think if the writers would write more for
Dax she would have the potential as other females in Trek..
christopher
ps. perhaps people are too hard on the females in trek, a lot is the
writers, and even the actresses comment on how they'd like to do more!
Matt Lathrum
Ibrahim H Abed
HOW DARE YOU!!!!!!!!! :) ( just kidding )
Dax is one of the best actresses I've seen and is a perfect compliment and counter-
balances to Sisko's heavy-handednes.
Gaby Abed
dun...@ac.dal.ca
The Sisko character was good in concept. There is just something
wrong either with the writing or acting of the role. From a purely
military position he, like Picard, makes such stupid decisions.
On the other had the character seems to work well when he is
called on to deal with Bajoran-Federation political issues.
As for Dax - an almost invisible role.
Alan Hurshman
dun...@ac.dal.ca
big...@society.com
IN>>
IN>>
IN>> Nimesh Bipin Dave (nd...@uceng.uc.edu) wrote:
IN>> : Somebody said:
IN>>
IN>> : >>I'm afraid that alone wouldn't do. They would have to change the Sis
IN>> : >>_character_ as well. Sisko, and virtually all the other characters o
IN>> : >>DS9, with the exception of O'Brien, suffer both from bland acting an
IN>> : >>the _awfully_ boring scripts.
IN>> : >
IN>>
IN>> : I agree. I think the characters of Sisko and Dax should be eliminated.
IN>> : Only O'Brien and Quark are really any good -- the others are OK but...
IN>>
IN>> : - Nimesh
IN>>
IN>> I have to disagree, I think if the writers would write more for
IN>> Dax she would have the potential as other females in Trek..
IN>>
IN>> christopher
IN>>
IN>>
IN>> ps. perhaps people are too hard on the females in trek, a lot is the
IN>> writers, and even the actresses comment on how they'd like to do more!
IN>>
hey....everyone.....lets wait till the third year before making alll
those changes??? ok???/ Next Gen didn't get interesting 'till the
Middle of the third season!!!! so give DS9 a chance..!!
ps.... Dax........<sigh> .....
presto...@gmail.com
> I feel the Sisko character stinks. He's as stiff as a rock. Riker is bad,
> but not that bad. I hope they change Sisko with someone else.
Sisko, in my opinion is the worst star trek character i've even seen. I have only watched voyager, next generation and DS9 (of course) but he's definitely the worst, most annoying character in my opinion.
Your Name
Having said that (and ignoring the various reboot garbage attempts that
came after Voyager finished), Sisko may be the worst Captain, but he's
far from the worst Star Trek character ... Weasley Crusher, Nelix,
Seven of Boob, etc. are all much worse.
The main problem with Sisko is the idiotic Bajoran religous crap that
came up from time to time.
mlb...@gmail.com
Your Name
>
> I agree 24 years later I have just watched DS9 and he is the worst part if it
character. Thhankfully there weren't very many such episdoes.
maggie.sham...@gmail.com
> I feel the Sisko character stinks. He's as stiff as a rock. Riker is bad,
> but not that bad. I hope they change Sisko with someone else.
adk...@ucsc.edu
Avery should really be dubbed over because his performance is just so god damn weird. It's like the dude is mentally ill. Either the volume is erratic, or the rhythm is twacked, or he's mad... booty all around.