Does Yeoman (TOS) = Ensign (TNG)?
Rick Goheen
lance-wielding knight, and it occurred to me that Kirk referred to his
junior officers (expendable crewpersons ;-) as "Yeoman [name]." Is a
Yeoman (TOS) equivalent to an Ensign (TNG), and if not, what is the
difference? I'm trying to remember which term was used in TMP and the
other movies... any responses welcome.
David H. Kime
Goheen) wrote:
I do not think that they are equivalent. Remember that Chekov was an
ensign. The difference is in being either an officer or an enlisted person.
An officer has a college degree (most likely from the academy) and begins
as an ensign. Enlisted people do not hold college degrees. In the naval
service (which starfleet is based on) if you hear the words chief,
botswain, yoeman, etc. they are referring to enlisted people. Midshipman
can either mean high ranking enlisted or cadets who have not yet graduated
from the academy. (Although star trek usually prefers the term cadet.) Now,
all of this brings up the O'Brien issue, to which I have no sufficient
answer
--
David H. Kime
dh...@cornell.edu
Lloyd R. Parker
: In article <31p2fm$m...@taft.law.uc.edu>, goh...@taft.law.uc.edu (Rick
: Goheen) wrote:
: David H. Kime
: dh...@cornell.edu
According to Webster's, a yeoman is an enlisted person (usually
petty officer) who performs the function of a typist or secretary.
Dylan the Hippy Wabbit
(Lloyd R. Parker) wrote:
> According to Webster's, a yeoman is an enlisted person (usually
> petty officer) who performs the function of a typist or secretary.
According to Star Trek a yeoman is a pretty pair of legs to park behind the
captain's chair.
;-)
Dave Spacey
--
Don't underestimate the abacus......it requires no power, can be made with
any materials you have to hand, and never goes bing in the middle of an
important piece of work. (Many thanks to Douglas Adams.)
acm...@mtroyal.ab.ca
Yeoman is a job. Ensign is a rank.
K
Victor W. Wong
Generally speaking, "Yeoman" in ST is the Captain's secretary. Chekov
holds the rank of Ensign during the time of TOS.
The usage comes from the naval "yeoman" who is the senior noncom in
charge of communications traffic for a ship--the position that Uhura
occupies (though she's an officer).
By the time of TNG, the position is rendered redundant through the use
of automation, and the assumption of communications duties by the tactical
officer.
Victor Wong
ah...@freenet.carleton.ca
--
Copyright (C) 1994 Victor W. Wong. All rights reserved.
Mike Powell
: I was watching the TOS episode in which McCoy gets "killed" by the
--
mpo...@sos.sos.net Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing
what is right.
-Salvor Hardin
Ibrahim H Abed
Gaby ABed
Carl Welch
>From: dh...@cornell.edu (David H. Kime)
>Subject: Re: Does Yeoman (TOS) = Ensign (TNG)?
>Date: Thu, 04 Aug 1994 13:18:52 -0500
O'Brien is an officer (a First Lt., I think). He is often referred to and
addressed as Chief O'Brien, because he is the transporter chief. Chief is
his position on the Enterprise, not his rank.
---
____ _ ____ __
/ __/ /_\ / _ \ / / / Carl Welch
/ /__ / _ \ / _ / / /__ / University of North Texas
/____/ /_/ \_\ /__/ \_\ /____/ / cwe...@gab.unt.edu
David H. Kime
Welch ) wrote:
> >all of this brings up the O'Brien issue, to which I have no sufficient
> >answer
> >--
> >
> >David H. Kime
> >dh...@cornell.edu
>
> O'Brien is an officer (a First Lt., I think). He is often referred to and
> addressed as Chief O'Brien, because he is the transporter chief. Chief is
> his position on the Enterprise, not his rank.
--
Uh.... That's what I am talking about. In the first five seasons of tng he
is an officer, in season 2 he even out-ranked Worf (full Lt. versus Lt.jg),
during the Klingon civil war he seems to act as a first officer to Picard
on the Enterprise, then in season 6 *poof* he's all the sudden not an
officer, he has one empty pip (ensigns, the lowest officers have one full
pip), he TAKES orders from Barclay, and this stayed when he moved to DS9,
then in All Good Things we see him with one empty pip, even though in
Encounter at Farpoint he has one empty and one full (Lt.jg), although this
admittedly could be one of the alterations of the past, as is data not
being a lt. commander. With the evidence at hand, on DS9, I believe chief
to be his rank (as an enlisted person) and position, but on the first five
seasons of tng chief would be his position with his rank as lt (jg then
full).
David H. Kime
dh...@cornell.edu
Keith Harrington
A yeoman (at least in today's Navy) is a enlisted person who does administrative
duties. For example, Janice Rand (Yeoman) was usually getting Kirk to sign stuff
on that handy-dandy data pad.
Chief O'Brien is not an officer. If you remember the episode where Worf's adoptive
parents come to visit and his Dad makes a big thing about seeing another enlisted
guy and how he was a retired machninist or something. Which of course, brings us
to the role of O'Brien.
IMHO, they've never dealt with the rank structure on TOS or TNG really well. I know
they brought Colm Meany over for continuity to DS9 (and to give him something more to do, or
he'd walk), but an enlisted Chief of Ops?? I think the producers like the term "Chief"
but have no idea what it means, and just gave the character an ever expanding realm of
duties (including tactical ops). The producers make it like everyone is an officer, except
when it's convienient not to. Remember, "Drumhead(?)" about the witchhunt trial with
the wacked Admiral (Brant?). There was Crewman Tsarsis, the part-romulan crewmember. He
was enlisted (I guess). I didn't see any rank symbol. In fact the only symbol of rank
I see are on the officers (engisn = *, Lt = **, etc). What about all the enlisted ranks?
Anyway, just an observation.
Keith Harrington.
These are my opinions. Unless you want to rent them, then they can be your's too.
Grant Burton
KH> >>ensign. The difference is in being either an officer or an enlisted
KH> person.
KH> >>An officer has a college degree (most likely from the academy) and
KH> begins
Well I dont think so, I am an enlisted person, and I hold colledge degrees, it
is very different in the REAL services, compared to the Fictional World of
Star Trek!
Far to complex to go into here, but suffice to say that Enlisted personal way
out number officers, so where are all the workers in Star Trek???
:-)
KH> >>all of this brings up the O'Brien issue, to which I have no sufficient
KH> >>answer
well O'brien was a Cheif Petty officer, which is the highest NON-commissioned
rank in our navy (australian), when he transferred to DS9 he got a commision
to an officer (no training???, as to achive a commision in our forces you must
go thru extra training, like the acadamy, and also you must apply and be
selected, a very LONG, and specialst slection process, and not very easy to
achieve!), but then again we are talking about fiction arnt we !
KH> IMHO, they've never dealt with the rank structure on TOS or TNG really
KH> well. I know
I agree
100%
where are ALL the enlisted people???? how do you tell the difference between
officers and enlisted personal?? This is one thing I think that Star Trek has
handles poorley, The Enterprise seems to a big ship full of Officers, and no
workers???é] Hopefully they have abanded all the segregation, bais, and
discrimation that currently exists in todays real defence forces. :-)
--
___/\
/ \ jpi...@portal.apana.org.au (>:-I... Captain Picard...>:-)
\___ / Gippsland Trekors Victoria Australia
\* <--' Bev Crusher, 4th season, episode "Remember me?"
"if there is nothing wrong with me,
something must be wrong with the universe!"
John Garza
enlisted persons on the Enterprise, as far as TOS is concerned.
It is assumed that automation and technology handles much of
the day-to-day "work". It is also better for crew morale to
not have such a drastic division. It fosters an "us vs. them"
mentality that may be acceptable in a 20th century automobile
factory, but in 23rd century space could be fatal.
BTW: Yeoman is a POSITION not a RANK. Yeomen are typical
clerk/secretary types. In TOS, minimum rank to hold such a position
was Ensign.
-JG
Dirty
<<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>>
Donald March dma...@gl.umbc.edu
UMBC - University of Maryland, Baltimore County
Thomas Schoene
: Just watch "Under Siege."
DOn't. It isn't worth it just to get the answer. ;-)
A yoeman is the Navy term for a clerk or secretary. IN today's Navys
they are enlisted, heaven only knows what that means in Trek.
Tom Schoene
.sig under development
Grant Burton
D> Just watch "Under Siege."
HUH????
Back to TOS yes I read that there was no Officer / troops anymore.....
abviously they have taken a step backwards in TNG, as there is clearly
Officers and Crewman....
grant...@gmail.com
John Crane
of 'Ensign' as this is a lower level clerical position - as opposed to
say, Chief Engineer.
The TOS reference to 'no enlisted personnel' was in the book 'Making of
Star Trek' and was stated to be in line with current USA Astronaut
selection criteria - you had to be a military officer with other
requirements - flight hours, etc. Obviously, that was abandoned as we
had civilian astronauts at the end of the Apollo program and continue to
do so today. Regardless or rank or origin, I assume everyone in
Starfleet undergoes extensive training.
-J