TASHA + HER DAUGHTER - PLEASE EXPLAIN!!
Paul Rhee
up with NO answers as to what the story-line really was concerning
the daughter of Tasha Yarr (sp?). what did they mean (in prev.
episode) when Picard sent Tasha to the past, from the future...
i didn't get it. if it was the future, how could Picard have done
this? (at the time of the episode, tasha was already dead in the
story line). how could picard have sent a person who did not
exist into the past?
confused,
paul.
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
pr...@darwin.cc.nd.edu
John Michael Boyle
Paul Rhee <pr...@darwin.cc.nd.edu> wrote:
>While a friend and i were talking about it the other day, we came
>up with NO answers as to what the story-line really was concerning
>the daughter of Tasha Yarr (sp?). what did they mean (in prev.
>episode) when Picard sent Tasha to the past, from the future...
>i didn't get it. if it was the future, how could Picard have done
>this? (at the time of the episode, tasha was already dead in the
>story line). how could picard have sent a person who did not
>exist into the past?
Well, in one of the episode the Enterprise C came through a hole in time.
This resulted in an alternate reality. In the new reality Tasha had not
died. And Guinan(sp?) senced that something was wrong and that Tasha
should be died. In this new reality the peace between thge Klingons and
the UFP never happened either. In was decided that the E C should go back
even though they would be destroyed for sure. Since there were heavy
causualties on the E C Tasha volunterred to go back with the E C. She was
then captured by the Romulans and her daughter was the result of a union
between Tasha and a Romulain.
John Boyle
University of California, Berkeley
bjh...@news.delphi.com
>confused,
>paul.
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
>pr...@darwin.cc.nd.edu
In the 3rd season's "Yesterday's Enterprise", the crew encounters a strange
time distortion phenomena, out of which appears the Enterprise 1701C,
commanded by Captain Rachel Garrett. At the very moment that this ship
appears, an "alternate" time line is created whereby the Federation is still
at war with the Klingons, and Tasha Yar is still alive.
After much agonizing and at the bequest of Guinan, who appears to sense that
this alternate time line is just that - alternate (and who correctly notes
that she could not have known Tasha), the Enterprise crew decides to send
the 1701C back into the time distortion. Guinan discusses these feelings
with Tasha (about the "empty death" that she experienced in the "correct"
time line) and Tasha, following the pre-mature death of Captain Garrett,
volunteers to transfer to the Enterprise C, thereby giving her a chance
to die "honorably" and help to restore the crew to the "real" time line.
Thus lies the origins of Sela, who appears in several episodes, most
notably, "Unification" I & II. Apparently, in the alternate time-line,
Tasha does survive, but is captured by and subsequently married to a
Romulan. Their child Sela, enamoured more by her Romulan heritage than
her human one, turns her own mother, Tasha, in during an aborted escape
attempt. Tasha is subsequently executed.
My confusion comes with respect to why Data didn't notice anything was
wrong with the time line. Oh sure, if history was changed, then HIS
experiences would have been different BUT...in 1st season's "We'll Always
Have Paris", the crew is caught in a strange time distortion as well and
Data explicitly states that he is not affected by the multiple time lines
that are occurring! In "Yesterday's Enterprise, *I* wouldn't characterize
this as alternate time line but would consider it a changed version of the
"real" time line! He also says that he sees time as linear and in "The
Outrageous Okona" he states that his internal time is "digital".
Oh well...
B.J. Henry
A/K/A DAX
A Gamma Quadrant Resident
bjh...@delphi.com
John Michael Boyle
BJH...@DELPHI.COM <bjh...@news.delphi.com> wrote:
>pr...@darwin.cc.nd.edu (Paul Rhee) writes:
>
>My confusion comes with respect to why Data didn't notice anything was
>wrong with the time line. Oh sure, if history was changed, then HIS
>experiences would have been different BUT...in 1st season's "We'll Always
>Have Paris", the crew is caught in a strange time distortion as well and
>Data explicitly states that he is not affected by the multiple time lines
>that are occurring! In "Yesterday's Enterprise, *I* wouldn't characterize
>this as alternate time line but would consider it a changed version of the
>"real" time line! He also says that he sees time as linear and in "The
>Outrageous Okona" he states that his internal time is "digital".
The time distortion in "We'll Always Have Paris" is a time distortion.
However, in "Yesterday's Enterprise" it is a rift that changes history it
is not a distortion. In "WAHP" time is shifting and history the future
and the present are all apearing at the same time. In "YE" the history
has been changed and the crew and Data are experiencing an alternate
single reality.
Vidiot
<While a friend and i were talking about it the other day, we came
<up with NO answers as to what the story-line really was concerning
<the daughter of Tasha Yarr (sp?). what did they mean (in prev.
<episode) when Picard sent Tasha to the past, from the future...
<i didn't get it. if it was the future, how could Picard have done
<this? (at the time of the episode, tasha was already dead in the
<story line). how could picard have sent a person who did not
<exist into the past?
Pull out your tape of "Yesterday's Enterprise". What, you don't have it on
tape...shame on you :-) Wait for it to show up as a repeat on your local
station. What, they don't air previous season shows? Then get a copy of the
ST:TNG Program Guide and read the synopsis to the episode.
In any event, a viewing of "Yesterday's Enterprise" is a requirement for
understanding this thread.
--
harvard\ spool.cs.wisc.edu!astroatc!vidiot!brown
Vidiot ucbvax!uwvax!astroatc!vidiot!brown
rutgers/ INTERNET:vidiot!brown%astroa...@spool.cs.wisc.edu
br...@wi.extrel.com
Alex Rosenheim
>up with NO answers as to what the story-line really was concerning
>the daughter of Tasha Yarr (sp?). what did they mean (in prev.
>episode) when Picard sent Tasha to the past, from the future...
>i didn't get it. if it was the future, how could Picard have done
>this? (at the time of the episode, tasha was already dead in the
>story line). how could picard have sent a person who did not
>exist into the past?
>
was needless to say, before Tasha's daughter came into the picture. And
ignore any development in Star Trek VI; the ST:TNG writers did. And most
importantly this is the description of an actual episode. I am not making
this stuff up.
Well, it all started when the Enterprise-C slipped through a time warp from 24
years in the past. The Enterprise C had been fighting in the battle of
Kittamer, defending this Klingon base (yes, Klingon base!). In our
timeline, Enterprise C had been destroyed in this battle, but their valient
efforts was proof of Federation honor, thus paving the way for the peace
that we know. But since Enterprise C slipped through time, and avoiding its
destruction, we are still at war with the Klingons. So, the Enterprise D
in not a science vessel, but a battle ship. Thus they wouldn't have gone
to meet the Tar Monster (for lack of a name) way back in season one, and
Tasha Yar did not die.
Here is where it gets really confusing. Guinan gets an intuition that
Tasha Should be dead, and that if the Enterprise C returns to the battle,
than the war will end, so Tasha chooses to go back in time with the
Enterprise C, and help them win their honor. And at that point we return
to our time line with Tasha Yar (from the other time line) 24 years in our
past. The rest you know. Her ship is captured. She is taken prisoner.
She gets knocked up by her Romulan captivors. She tries to escape. She
gets killed, and leaves a half-Romulan/Half-human child that hates her
mother and everything that is human.
Oy!
I hope this clears everything up.
Alex Rosenheim
<ki7...@unix1.circ.gwu.edu>
And for those familiar with the story, please do not write in corrections
of the minor details. Ex. It was 23 years from the past not 24. These
guys will be confused enough by the plot.
Talia Sofer
The episode was called "Yesterday's Enterprise" and it was one of the
best episodes ever made.
I strongly suggest you rent it.
Leo J. Irakliotis
|
|>
|> Well, it all started when the Enterprise-C slipped through a time warp from 24
|> years in the past. The Enterprise C had been fighting in the battle of
|> Kittamer, defending this Klingon base (yes, Klingon base!).
Opsss! It is not the Kittamer outpost. That's where Worf's father died.
I do not remember the name of the Klingon outpost in "Yesterday's Enterprise"
but it is not Kittamer (sp?).
|> in not a science vessel, but a battle ship. Thus they wouldn't have gone
|> to meet the Tar Monster (for lack of a name) way back in season one, and
|> Tasha Yar did not die.
The name of the "Tasha Monster" in Cmdr Sheila (sp?). She appears in
Redemption parts I and II.
|> past. The rest you know. Her ship is captured. She is taken prisoner.
|> She gets knocked up by her Romulan captivors. She tries to escape. She
|> gets killed, and leaves a half-Romulan/Half-human child that hates her
|> mother and everything that is human.
We know the rest, but I doubt if you do. Tasha becomes companion of a
Romular General who felt in love with her. A year later, she gives
birth to his child, Sheila. One and half years after Sheild was born,
Tasha tries to escape from Romulus. The baby's cries, mark the end
of her escape (the baby actually understood that her mother was trying
to take her away from her home and father, according to Sheila's
confession to Picard). The next day Tasha Yar was executed.
I believe this sounds a bit more coherent that "get knocked up ... tries to
escape ... gets killed".
|> And for those familiar with the story, please do not write in corrections
|> of the minor details. Ex. It was 23 years from the past not 24. These
|> guys will be confused enough by the plot.
I believe my corrections were not minor details.
--
Leo J Irakliotis irak...@longs.lance.colostate.edu
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Electrical Engineering l.irak...@ieee.org
Colorado State U
(303) 491-2021 Optical Computing Lab
johnson scott andrew
Leo J. Irakliotis <irak...@lance.colostate.edu> wrote:
>In article <26vio1$f...@unix1.circ.gwu.edu>, ki7...@unix1.circ.gwu.edu (Alex Rosenheim) writes:
>|
>|>
>|> years in the past. The Enterprise C had been fighting in the battle of
>|> Kittamer, defending this Klingon base (yes, Klingon base!).
>
>
>I do not remember the name of the Klingon outpost in "Yesterday's Enterprise"
>but it is not Kittamer (sp?).
>
The outpost was Norendra III.
(BTW, the correct spelling is "Khitomer".)
>|> in not a science vessel, but a battle ship. Thus they wouldn't have gone
>|> to meet the Tar Monster (for lack of a name) way back in season one, and
>|> Tasha Yar did not die.
>
>The name of the "Tasha Monster" in Cmdr Sheila (sp?). She appears in
>Redemption parts I and II.
>i
The name of the "Tar Monster" was Armus. The episode was called "Skin of Evil".
The offspring of the alternate-reality Tasha and the Romluan officer is named
"Sela", NOT Shiela.
She also shows up in Unification 2, where she manages to make the Romulans look
like the Ferengi....
Here's hoping that the character of Commander Sela never shows up on Trek
again.
swan...@comphy.physics.orst.edu
>In article <Sep12.191...@yuma.acns.colostate.edu>,
>Leo J. Irakliotis <irak...@lance.colostate.edu> wrote:
>>In article <26vio1$f...@unix1.circ.gwu.edu>, ki7...@unix1.circ.gwu.edu (Alex Rosenheim) writes:
>>|
>>|>
>>|> Well, it all started when the Enterprise-C slipped through a time warp from 24
>>|> years in the past. The Enterprise C had been fighting in the battle of
>>|> Kittamer, defending this Klingon base (yes, Klingon base!).
>>
>>Opsss! It is not the Kittamer outpost. That's where Worf's father died.
>>
>>I do not remember the name of the Klingon outpost in "Yesterday's Enterprise"
>>but it is not Kittamer (sp?).
>>
>
>The outpost was Norendra III.
>(BTW, the correct spelling is "Khitomer".)
BTW, the correct spelling is "Narendra"
Tom Swanson
OSU Physics
z_cl...@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
BTW, stands for 'by the way'
johnson scott andrew
It appears, folks, that we have a correction of a correction of a correction
of an article.
Is this a net.record???????????????
/sj/
Dan Bechard
: The rest you know. Her ship is captured. She is taken prisoner.
: gets killed, and leaves a half-Romulan/Half-human child that hates her
: mother and everything that is human.
I have figured out everything except for this. I remember seeing a
Yar-lookalike in the episode where Geordie is brainwashed, but I haven't
caught any episodes where this scenario is described. Can someone clue
me in? Did this come from a book, or from a show I missed?
Thanks,
Dan
Alex Rosenheim
The above a description of what happened to Tasha from the other time
line. The Tasha from the other time line journeies 24 years in the past.
Tasha's ship gets captured. Tasha becomes impregnated by her Rolmulan
captors. Tasha gives birth to Cmd. Sela. Tasha gets killed trying to
escape. Sela watched her mother get executed. Sela begins to hate all
humans. Sela ages 24 years and rises to the rank of Cmd. and that is where
we see her for the first time.
And once again, Dan asked for plot not minor details. Lets not get
nitpicky this close to the season premire. I am already quite giddy.
Alex Rosenheim
John C. Yen
Finale of Season 4, when the Klingons were fighting their civil war. As she
explained to Captain Picard, she refered to another episode, "Yesterday's
Enterprise". In that episode, the Enterprise-C came forward in time during
an engagement with the Romulans while defending Narenda, a Klingon outpost.
That engagement took place 22 years before the present (in STTNG terms).
When Enterprise-C appeared in the Enterprise-D era, everything changed.
Tasha Yar, who otherwise would have been dead, was still the tactical officer.
Enterprise-D was no longer an exploration vessal, but a war vessal. As Captain
Picard explained to Captain Rachel Garret of the Enterprise-C, The Federation
has been at war with the Klingons for a long time, and that the Federation was
nearing defeat. Guinan somehow knew that this war was not suppose to happen,
and that Enterprise-C had to go back to their own time. In other words,
the Enterprise-C had to be sacraficed (it was near destruction when it came
forward in time) in order to prevent the Klingon-Federation war and the loss
of countless lives. Before it could return, the two Enterprises engaged two
Klingon battle cruisers, and Captain Garret was killed. Tasha , meanwhile,
found out from Guinan that in the other timeline she was supposed to be dead,
and volunteers to return with Enterprise-C to the past where she could make a
difference. Captain Picard agreed, Enterprise-C returned to its time, and the
timeline was restored. Later in "Redemption", Guinan revealed to Picard what
he had done in the other timeline, telling him that Tasha Yar was one of the
survivors that were taken back to Romulus. She was courted by a general, and
a year later Sela was born. When Sela was two years old, Tasha Yar tried to
escape with her daughter, but Sela cried out, and Tasha was executed. Sela
regreted her mother's decision to betray her father despite what he had given
her, and her human side died with her mother. This is probably why she hated
the Federation, especially Captain Picard.
Hope this clarifies things a little.
--- John C. Yen ---
--- jc...@uclink.berkeley.edu ---
--- joh...@cory.EECS.berkeley.edu ---
Unknown
>up with NO answers as to what the story-line really was concerning
>the daughter of Tasha Yarr (sp?). what did they mean (in prev.
>episode) when Picard sent Tasha to the past, from the future...
>i didn't get it. if it was the future, how could Picard have done
>this? (at the time of the episode, tasha was already dead in the
>story line). how could picard have sent a person who did not
>exist into the past?
>
>confused,
>
>
>paul.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Spoilers to follow for Yesterday's Enterprise, and a few
other stories (one from season 1?, and season 6)
I can't remember the titles of the episodes involved.
Tasha dies in timeline 1 (being killed by some total evil creature).
The characters then follow timeline 1 as normal without Tasha.
In a different timeline, timeline 2, the characters are involved
in a serious war with the Klingons, and Starfleet admits that they are close
to defeat. The Starfleet that we know in timeline 1 is a different
sort of Starfleet, a more miltaristic (because they are involved in a
war). The Enterprise crew is not on a mission of discovery but one
of defeating an enemy, thus leaving no time to explore strange
new worlds, and therefore, Tasha is not killed in timeline 2
because she never explores and never meets the creature that kills
her.
The timeline1 Enterprise then encounters a time distortion, switch
to the timeline 2 Enterprise (in Yesterday's Enterprise). The timeline1
and timeline2 are just as valid (in the Star Trek Universe) as
timelines. Tasha is alive and kicking in timeline 2.
In timeline1, the Enterprise C is involved with the Romulans (who are in the act
of destroying a Klingon outpost). During the battle the Enterprise
C is, because of the vast energies involved (!), passed into
timeline 2, where they encounter the Enterprise D. Because
Enterprise C failed to stop the Romulans, and the Klingons assume
(why?) that the Starfleet caused the damage to the Klingon outpost, a war
between Starfleet and the Klingon empire commences, leading to the
Universe that is timeline2.
The Enterprise D (timeline2) is at the time distortion point, beams
over the surviving members of the C (timeline2). Tasha falls in
love with the Number 1 (who becomes the Captain) and decides,
because of a conversation with Guinan, that as she died a
stupid death in timeline1, that she should go back with the
Enterprise C to timeline1. The Enterprise D is attacked but the
Enterprise C slips through the closing time distortion and ends up
back at timeline 1. Because of the superior knowledge of Tasha,
and improvements made by Geordi, the Enterprise C is able to prevent
or certainly fool the plans of the Romulans; and the Klingons, we
assume, don't go to war with the Starfleet and so timeline 2 is
for intents and purposes a non-starter and just one of those
threads that exist in the heart/or non-heart of the Guardian
of Time (or whatever it calls itself).
The Tasha Var of timeline2
is now in timeline1 (the Universe is pretty flexible about all of
this) and is captured by timeline1 Romulans. She then marries a
Romulan. She has a daughter who looks remarkably like Tasha Yar
but with a wig on. Tasha dies (I can't remember how). I am sorry
I can't remember the episode either. The daughter obviously is
pretty intelligent and makes rapid progress through the ranks and
file of the Romulan military. She appears in two or so episodes and
I have no doubt she will appear at some point in season 7. The
timeline ideas are well handled in an excellent book by Peter
David called 'Imzadi'. The events mentioned above are referred to by the
character, Data.
I hope this is a reasonable summary of the timeline/Tasha story. I
have no doubt I will be told otherwise.
Andrew Buckle. Logica.
Dan Bechard
: I can't remember the titles of the episodes involved.
I have followed all of this, and I have seen Yesterday's Enterprise
several times, so I understand what happens there. I also remember
seeing Yar's daughter in the episode where Geordie gets brainwashed,
but my question is - is any of Yar's (and here daughter's) history
after "Yesterday's Enterprise" get told onscreen, or is it merely
fleshed out in the book? I can't remember seeing any episode on TV
where we hear the story.
Thanks,
Dan
Mr. Sherbert
opener "REDEMPTION II" (which was the conclusion of the Klingon Civil War
story. - Seela tells Picard the whole story in the Enterprise Briefing
lounge.
Lars
PS - Just got an Internet account for CSUN classes - so I'm new here.
Dirk Loedding
DB> N .@FROM :bec...@mprgate.mpr.ca
DB> N .@MSGID :<1993Sep15.1...@mprgate.mpr.ca>
DB> I have followed all of this, and I have seen Yesterday's Enterprise
DB> several times, so I understand what happens there. I also remember
DB> seeing Yar's daughter in the episode where Geordie gets brainwashed,
DB> but my question is - is any of Yar's (and here daughter's) history
DB> after "Yesterday's Enterprise" get told onscreen, or is it merely
DB> fleshed out in the book? I can't remember seeing any episode on TV
DB> where we hear the story.
I believe Sela mentions something about it in "Reunification." I know
it got mentioned on-screen in one episode or another...maybe even in
"Redemption."
I'm sure somebody can quote chapter and verse of where Sela told us her
history.
... If you can read this, you're in phaser range...
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
Jan Isakovic
>>I believe Sela mentions something about it in "Reunification." I know
>>it got mentioned on-screen in one episode or another...maybe even in
>>"Redemption."
>>I'm sure somebody can quote chapter and verse of where Sela told us her
>>history.
It was in Redemption, part two - Sela says that Tasha was captured
and forced in marriage, thus saving the rest of survivors.
Tasha had one child and attempted an escape shortly
afterwards and was killed in attempt.. :(
--
Y.
Founder, chairman and sole member of "Bring Tasha Back" Society
To apply, EMail jan.is...@uni-lj.si or Yan...@garbo.uwasa.fi
John C Newmark
gary l. schroeder
>>>I believe Sela mentions something about it in "Reunification." I know
>>>it got mentioned on-screen in one episode or another...maybe even in
>>>"Redemption."
>It was in Redemption, part two - Sela says that Tasha was captured
>and forced in marriage, thus saving the rest of survivors.
>Tasha had one child and attempted an escape shortly
>afterwards and was killed in attempt.. :(
That's not how I remember it (and I have videotape copies to back it
up). Didn't Sela tell Picard that she returned because of some weird
fascination with a previous character that she abondoned and later
regretted? It had something to do with the temporary insanity caused
by a "sure-thing" acting job that would keep her rolling in the money
for the rest of her natural life. I dunno. Something like that. To
which Picard replied "that's the most ridiculously convoluted excuse
for getting back on this show that I've ever heard!"
--
--------------
Gary Schroeder
schr...@bnlux1.bnl.gov
Brookhaven National Laboratory