Is Chakotay actor a Native American?
Pradnya Joshi
Native American? If so, what tribe or band is he from? This is to answer a
question from someone at my work.
Please e-mail me at pjo...@csd.uwm.edu
Thanks.
-- P.J. Joshi
schlock
He's Mexican, which is pretty much Native American, albeit Native South American.
They're reportedly going to explain this away by giving Chakotay more of a
Mayan heritage than an American Indian heritage. I'm just glad he doesn't
wear long hair and a feather headdress.
schlock
Claire Marise Francis
>Claire Marise Francis (CMFR...@ARTSU1.Watstar.UWaterloo.CA) wrote:
>: pjo...@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu (Pradnya Joshi) wrote:
>: >Does anyone know if the actor who plays Chakotay (Robert Beltran) is a
>: >Native American? If so, what tribe or band is he from? This is to answer a
>: >question from someone at my work.
>: As far as I know, Robert Beltran's ethnic background is Mexican-American.
>
>Yes, and when people complain about not casting an Indian to play an
>Indian, I understand his response is more or less "Mexicans are Indians,
>dummy!"
>
And he's right! (I didn't mean to imply that Beltran's being Mexican
excluded him from being Native.)
>--
>
> Jim Walters
> jwal...@clark.net "Putting the DOH! in Aikido"
Jim Walters
: pjo...@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu (Pradnya Joshi) wrote:
: >Does anyone know if the actor who plays Chakotay (Robert Beltran) is a
: >Native American? If so, what tribe or band is he from? This is to answer a
: >question from someone at my work.
:
: As far as I know, Robert Beltran's ethnic background is Mexican-American.
Yes, and when people complain about not casting an Indian to play an
Indian, I understand his response is more or less "Mexicans are Indians,
dummy!"
--
Claire Marise Francis
>Does anyone know if the actor who plays Chakotay (Robert Beltran) is a
>Native American? If so, what tribe or band is he from? This is to answer a
>question from someone at my work.
>
As far as I know, Robert Beltran's ethnic background is Mexican-American.
:) Claire
Claire Marise Francis
>pjo...@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu (Pradnya Joshi) wrote:
>>Does anyone know if the actor who plays Chakotay (Robert Beltran) is a
>>Native American? If so, what tribe or band is he from? This is to answer a
>>question from someone at my work.
>>
>>Please e-mail me at pjo...@csd.uwm.edu
>>
>>Thanks.
>>
>>-- P.J. Joshi
>
>They're reportedly going to explain this away by giving Chakotay more of a
>Mayan heritage than an American Indian heritage.
But wouldn't that undermine some of the things TPTB have let us see of
the commander's cultural background?
Then again, I don't know that much about Native American traditions.
What Chak's been doing so far (for all I know) could fit in with Mayan
customs...
kevin eugene scruggs
|jwal...@clark.net (Jim Walters) wrote:
||: pjo...@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu (Pradnya Joshi) wrote:
||: |Does anyone know if the actor who plays Chakotay (Robert Beltran) is a
||: |Native American? If so, what tribe or band is he from? This is to answer a
||: |question from someone at my work.
||: As far as I know, Robert Beltran's ethnic background is Mexican-American.
||
||Yes, and when people complain about not casting an Indian to play an
||Indian, I understand his response is more or less "Mexicans are Indians,
||dummy!"
||
|
|Mr. Beltran Native.
Being Mexican may not necessarily imply that he is Indian either.
Also Lakota != Tsalagi. There is no common culture and likely
different standards of membership.
--
||| mmm...Yoda of Borg am I. Futile is resistance.
/ | \ Assimilate you, I will...
Claire Marise Francis
>Claire Marise Francis (CMFR...@ARTSU1.Watstar.UWaterloo.CA) wrote:
>: pjo...@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu (Pradnya Joshi) wrote:
>: >Does anyone know if the actor who plays Chakotay (Robert Beltran) is a
>: >Native American? If so, what tribe or band is he from? This is to answer a
>: >question from someone at my work.
>:
>: As far as I know, Robert Beltran's ethnic background is Mexican-American.
>
>Yes, and when people complain about not casting an Indian to play an
>Indian, I understand his response is more or less "Mexicans are Indians,
>dummy!"
>
And he's right! (I didn't mean to imply that Beltran's being Mexican
excluded him from being Native.)
>--
Claire Marise Francis
Claire Marise Francis
Claire Marise Francis
>Claire Marise Francis (CMFR...@ARTSU1.Watstar.UWaterloo.CA) wrote:
>: pjo...@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu (Pradnya Joshi) wrote:
>: >Does anyone know if the actor who plays Chakotay (Robert Beltran) is a
>: >Native American? If so, what tribe or band is he from? This is to answer a
>: >question from someone at my work.
>:
>: As far as I know, Robert Beltran's ethnic background is Mexican-American.
>
>Yes, and when people complain about not casting an Indian to play an
>Indian, I understand his response is more or less "Mexicans are Indians,
>dummy!"
>
And he's right! I didn't mean to imply that being Mexican didn't make
Mr. Beltran Native.
lanshark
: pjo...@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu (Pradnya Joshi) wrote:
: >Does anyone know if the actor who plays Chakotay (Robert Beltran) is a
: >Native American? If so, what tribe or band is he from? This is to answer a
: >question from someone at my work.
: >
: >
: >Thanks.
: He's Mexican, which is pretty much Native American, albeit Native South American.
Er, actually Mexico is a part of North America :)
Just as there are numerous Indian tribes (Native American tribes) within
the borders of the USA, the same is true of Mexico (Apaches, for instance,
live on both sides of the border).
Most Hispanics do have some degree of Native American ancestry (my grandmother
was a full half Tarahumaran, a tribe that lives in Mexico's desert state of
Chihuahua), esp. the poor. In Mexico, they practice their own version of
racial discrimination. Most of the upper classes, and the educated and
wealthy, look very European (Spanish), while the working classes and poor
tend to have far more Native American blood.
: They're reportedly going to explain this away by giving Chakotay more of a
: Mayan heritage than an American Indian heritage. I'm just glad he doesn't
: wear long hair and a feather headdress.
Mayans are primarily in Central America (modern day Guatemala). I seem to
remember someone posting that Beltran is stated as saying he was hoping
that his native heritage was going to be Aztec (which would have been
great, and perhaps more believable seeing as how the Aztecs are from
Mexico). I think it would have been far more interesting than what they
ended up doing. It doesn't look like they decided to go with Mayan or
Aztec from what we've seen, it looks more generic harkening more to the
great plains tribes. Too bad, it would have been nice to get an insight
about a culture as rich in history, art, war, science, etc. as the Aztecs.
Another idea that I would have really liked, being a resident of New Mexico,
would have been to see Chakotay be a member of one of the New Mexico
pueblo tribes. Their culture was heavily influenced by the Spanish settlers
in this area, but quite different from what most Americans think of when
they think of native Americans.
--lanshark
New NM license plate: "New Mexico, Land of Enchantment, USA". "USA" was
added because too many didn't know that NM was part of the USA :)
kevin eugene scruggs
|Claire Marise Francis (CMFR...@ARTSU1.Watstar.UWaterloo.CA) wrote:
|: pjo...@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu (Pradnya Joshi) wrote:
|: |Does anyone know if the actor who plays Chakotay (Robert Beltran) is a
|: |Native American? If so, what tribe or band is he from? This is to answer a
|: |question from someone at my work.
|:
|
|Yes, and when people complain about not casting an Indian to play an
|Indian, I understand his response is more or less "Mexicans are Indians,
|dummy!"
gone on in latin america. Mexican = Indian is not universally
true. Nevermind tribal subtleties that usually get mangled.
Jet Silverman
: As far as I know, Robert Beltran's ethnic background is Mexican-American.
: :) Claire
:
Native, smative. Who cares? He's a babe!
Claire Marise Francis
>In article <DKvJ1...@watserv3.uwaterloo.ca> Claire Marise Francis <CMFR...@ARTSU1.Watstar.UWaterloo.CA> writes:
>|jwal...@clark.net (Jim Walters) wrote:
>||: |Does anyone know if the actor who plays Chakotay (Robert Beltran) is a
>||: |Native American? If so, what tribe or band is he from? This is to answer a
>||: |question from someone at my work.
>||:
>||
>||Indian, I understand his response is more or less "Mexicans are Indians,
>||dummy!"
>||
>|
>|Mr. Beltran Native.
I didn't mean it like that. From what I know, the ethnic ancestry of
Mexicans *includes* Aboriginal people. It is not composed of them
*only*.
> Also Lakota != Tsalagi. There is no common culture and likely
> different standards of membership.
lanshark
: Mayans are primarily in Central America (modern day Guatemala). I seem to
: remember someone posting that Beltran is stated as saying he was hoping
: that his native heritage was going to be Aztec (which would have been
: great, and perhaps more believable seeing as how the Aztecs are from
: Mexico). I think it would have been far more interesting than what they
: ended up doing. It doesn't look like they decided to go with Mayan or
: Aztec from what we've seen, it looks more generic harkening more to the
I just looked this up, and just wanted to correct myself. Mayans hail from
modern day Guatemala, Belize, the Yucatan peninsula in Mexico, and some
other areas of southern Mexico
--lanshark
schlock
>: >Does anyone know if the actor who plays Chakotay (Robert Beltran) is a
>: >Native American? If so, what tribe or band is he from? This is to answer a
>: >question from someone at my work.
>:
>
>Er, actually Mexico is a part of North America :)
>
Argh. <smack> Actually isn't that Central America?
>: They're reportedly going to explain this away by giving Chakotay more of a
>: Mayan heritage than an American Indian heritage. I'm just glad he doesn't
>: wear long hair and a feather headdress.
>
>Mayans are primarily in Central America (modern day Guatemala). I seem to
>remember someone posting that Beltran is stated as saying he was hoping
>that his native heritage was going to be Aztec (which would have been
>great, and perhaps more believable seeing as how the Aztecs are from
>Mexico). I think it would have been far more interesting than what they
>ended up doing. It doesn't look like they decided to go with Mayan or
>Aztec from what we've seen, it looks more generic harkening more to the
>great plains tribes. Too bad, it would have been nice to get an insight
>about a culture as rich in history, art, war, science, etc. as the Aztecs.
>
Direct quote from Jeri Taylor in the Cinefantastique double issue on Voyager
and DS9: "Because Robert is in fact Mexican Indian, we are building up that
aspect and will be suggesting Mayan ancestry for him as opposed to the
Indian nations north of the Mexican border we are more familiar with."
This doesn't explain why they didn't pick Aztec or something else, but
at least they're going to try to give the man a concrete background from
one definite tribe, instead of an amalgam of many "Indian" customs. Now
perhaps someone can go get some research done on this subject. I know if
he says "my people" one more time like he's speaking for all tribes and
cultures in the "Native American" category, I do believe I am going to
scream. It's just like Picard's "French pride" the first year of TNG,
and just like that was for Picard, it isn't all that useful as a character
trait for Chakotay either.
schlock
Barbara Nash
>schlock <sch...@leland.stanford.edu> wrote:
>>>Does anyone know if the actor who plays Chakotay (Robert Beltran) is a
>>>Native American? If so, what tribe or band is he from? This is to answer a
>>>question from someone at my work.
>>>
>>
>>He's Mexican, which is pretty much Native American, albeit Native South American.
Actually, Mexico is one of the three North American countries (along with,
of course, the USA and Canada). Robert Beltran, being Mexican, is a
Native North American.
Peace,
Barb
--
*******************************************************************
Barb Nash bln...@netcom.com * http://www.csc.calpoly.edu/~bnash/
Parisite #1, Duchovnik, B'Elladonna, OMMB
Editor for The Flight Log, the Official Newsletter of
RanDoM Flight - The Official Robert Duncan McNeill Fanclub
*******************************************************************
Ivan Ordonez Reinoso
schlock <sch...@leland.stanford.edu> wrote:
>>:
>>: He's Mexican, which is pretty much Native American, albeit Native South American.
>>
>>Er, actually Mexico is a part of North America :)
>
>Argh. <smack> Actually isn't that Central America?
No. North America is the Canada, the USA and Mexico (ever heard of NAFTA?).
Central America starts with Guatemala and ends with Panama.
--
Ivan Ordonez-Reinoso | If you have excess brainpower that
iord...@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu | you don't want or need, then enjoy
iord...@cis.ohio-state.edu | smoking.
http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu/~iordonez/ | Pierce J. Howard
MacGyvers Valanne
lanshark <lans...@moink.nmsu.edu> wrote:
>schlock (sch...@leland.stanford.edu) wrote:
>: pjo...@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu (Pradnya Joshi) wrote:
>: >Does anyone know if the actor who plays Chakotay (Robert Beltran) is a
>: >Native American? If so, what tribe or band is he from? This is to answer a
>: >question from someone at my work.
>
>Er, actually Mexico is a part of North America :)
>
>remember someone posting that Beltran is stated as saying he was hoping
>that his native heritage was going to be Aztec (which would have been
>great, and perhaps more believable seeing as how the Aztecs are from
>Mexico). I think it would have been far more interesting than what they
>ended up doing. It doesn't look like they decided to go with Mayan or
>Aztec from what we've seen, it looks more generic harkening more to the
>great plains tribes. Too bad, it would have been nice to get an insight
>about a culture as rich in history, art, war, science, etc. as the Aztecs.
>
spiritual traditions of the great plains indians. However, others of
the traditions indicated by Chakotay are less specific. I also recall
an episode where C. and his father went in search of their heritage. The
setting was of rainforest, and similar to those cultures farther south
than the great plains. Also, be aware that many of the spiritual traditions
described are more typical of the peoples of the Pacific Northwest Coastal
groups (e.g., spirit guides who are manifested as animals). All in all,
C. seems to have a somewhat generic heritage. Perhaps over the course
of the centuries the native american cultures have become blended and
no loger distinct. Certainly this has been the case for many cultures on
our planet, with even Christmas trees appearing in Jewish homes.
Macedon
says:
>Certainly some of the symbolism and spirituality is similar to the
>spiritual traditions of the great plains indians. However, others of
>the traditions indicated by Chakotay are less specific.
Yeah, unfortunately, it's called Hollywood Plastic Medicine Man. 8}
Actually, "Tattoo" was better, but some of the stuff they did before
that set my teeth on edge.
>I also recall
>an episode where C. and his father went in search of their heritage. The
>setting was of rainforest, and similar to those cultures farther south
>than the great plains. Also, be aware that many of the spiritual traditions
>described are more typical of the peoples of the Pacific Northwest Coastal
>groups (e.g., spirit guides who are manifested as animals).
Ooops. Wrongo, tiny one. <g> I assume you're talking about the idea of
spirit guides. These are very nearly universal. The name differs from
area to area. I belong to the Piankeshaw Miami, which is a Great Lakes
tribe (Northeastern Woodlands), we certainly have them. They're called
manitto/manitou in Algonquian. Our neighbors and sometimes enemies the
Iroquois call them orenda. On the plains, they're wakan. The concept
is a part of the general native mindset, although the specifics may vary
a lot from geographical area to geographical area.
>All in all
>C. seems to have a somewhat generic heritage. Perhaps over the course
>of the centuries the native american cultures have become blended and
>no loger distinct. Certainly this has been the case for many cultures on
>our planet, with even Christmas trees appearing in Jewish homes.
PanIndianism. This already exists. But the degree to which individual
traditions, much less the "larger" common tradition threads of a geographic
area/group will disappear remains to be seen. I doubt, even in 400 years,
the mediwiwin tradition of the Northeast Ojibway-Chippewa and related
tribes is going to look much like the kiva of the Zuni. There are certainly
similarities which exist even now, but there are important differences as
well. One's a hunting pattern and one's a horticultural pattern. ;>
\ | / "Quem deus vult perdere,
--*-- Macedon dementat prius."
/ | \