[DS9] Lynch's Spoiler Review: "The Darkness and the Light"

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Timothy W. Lynch

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Jan 12, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/12/97
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WARNING: Spoilers for DS9's "The Darkness and the Light" are
being dragged into the harsh light of day. Darkness dwellers be wary.

In brief: A stellar first four acts, but a weak fifth. Still a good hour's
time spent.

======
Written by: Ronald D. Moore (teleplay); Bryan Fuller (story)
Directed by: Michael Vejar
Brief summary: Kira is seized by a growing sense of frustration as
members of her old resistance cell start being murdered one by one ...
with every indication that she may be next.
======

January feels like Old Home Month for DS9 so far. In two weeks,
we've had a show delving deeply into Bajoran religion and Sisko's
role as the Emissary, and a show highlighting Kira's past in the
resistance against the Cardassians. Those who found the Bajoran
focus during the first two seasons "boring" will probably be
underwhelmed by this turn of events, but I see it as further evidence
that there's a lot of meat left in Bajoran issues to chew on.

In any case, the first four acts or so of "The Darkness and the Light"
was a riveting story about revenge and frustration, managing to ooze
atmosphere out of almost every shot for a while in the bargain. With
an opening scene featuring *none* of the regular characters, we were
left to wonder exactly what the story was -- and once we heard the
"that's one" message sent to Kira, the story came into crisp and fairly
chilling focus.

As the first real Kira-centered story of the season, furthermore, it
managed to lay some of my worries to rest about what was done to the
character over season four. This Kira was not the sneezing, giggly
laughingstock we saw over much of last year -- oh, no. This Kira
was chafing at being safely tucked away aboard a station while her
friends were being killed off. This Kira was upset about not being
able to act as a major in the Bajoran militia should. This Kira was
sardonic, biting, and prone to snap at people under pressure. This
Kira was ready to flatten anyone who stood in her way, and finally to
steal a ship and go searching for the assassin herself. In short, this
Kira was *damned* interesting viewing -- a whole lot more so than
she has been for much of the last two years. (The trips into Bajoran
religion like "Accession" and "Rapture" are a prominent exception;
those episodes plus this have done a good job of highlighting many of
Kira's different facets.)

Nana Visitor must have been happy with the show as well, because
she got to show a tremendous amount of range here. Kira had to
range from the firebrand punching out guards, to the broken-hearted
and empty-sounding Kira describing her first days with the resistance
(in a stunning scene, I might add), to the mock-hysterical (or perhaps
not quite so mock) Kira in the final moments of confrontation with
Silaran Prin. Aside from a few moments towards the end of the
show, that entire range was carried off quite well; not bad work at all,
particularly for someone dealing with a pregnancy seven or eight
months along at the same time.

I haven't said much about the plot here, since this show is one that
used its plot primarily to showcase its characters. Once I heard "that's
one", it was fairly obvious that there would be several others -- and
likewise, it was fairly expected that Kira would eventually be facing
the killer alone. The things that mattered here were the effect we saw
everything having on Kira, and the details in the way this plot was
carried out.

Most of those details worked like a charm, particularly early on. The
scrambled call to Ops came in way too early to actually be the killer, of
course, but Kira's claim that Fala *wasn't* part of her cell muddied
the waters quite a bit. As soon as Kira said she'd protect Fala, it
became clear that Fala wasn't going to live through the episode, but it
was interesting to have the object of Fala's death be the intended
object of her rescue. From there, the frustration began to mount
further, but in ways and scenes that seemed wholly natural. Quark
"accidentally" activating the padd with Kira's second message on it is
entirely in keeping with Quark's nature, and Kira's outburst when
asked if she was all right was anything but unreasonable. After that,
things only got worse; the arrival and subsequent death of Furel and
Lupaza made Kira feel even less safe, since the attack took place on
the station, and made the viewer feel much worse than the other deaths
had, since we'd seen (and liked, at least in my case) Furel and Lupaza
in the past, so they weren't just associates of Kira with no other
identity. (Frankly, I was really sorry to see that pair get killed, as I
liked them a lot -- but if I *didn't* feel annoyed to lose them, I
suppose they wouldn't have been particularly interesting in the first
place.) Kira's subsequent outwitting of Odo (at least long enough to
get a head start) was a bit more technical in nature than we usually see
from Kira, but quite plausible -- and her being so half-cocked that she
was taken down by Silaran Prin's illusions made sense as well.

It's after that, unfortunately, that the show began to fall down a bit.
Silaran Prin's motivations were eminently reasonable, and his
obsession with guilt vs. innocence in the aftermath of his crippling
makes sense as well. What doesn't quite make sense to me is how he
managed to do everything he did. The information relayed from
Odo's contact said that Prin had the relevant computer skills to
program hunter-probes and the like, which certainly helps -- but
Fala's death took more than simply programming a probe or
overriding a signal. To kill Fala, Prin would have had to circumvent
Federation security and transporter protocols, which needs someone
familiar with said protocols -- and I can't see how a Cardassian
servant would be so familiar with them, especially if he's been a
relative recluse since the occupation ended. (It's possible, of course,
that he wasn't a servant, but that would lessen the impact of his claims
of innocence, so I'm not inclined to buy into that.)

More than any bit of slightly lapsed plot logic, however, my main
sense of the fifth act was that it just didn't do what it needed to.
Prin's speechmaking and Kira's final statement about "a light only
shines in the dark" are the primary example of this: I think Ron
Moore was going for a fairly poetic feel here, which is admirable, but
at least from my perspective what he ended up with was pretension
really trying to pass itself off as deep. That probably sounds harsher
than I intend, because I didn't overly *dislike* those speeches; they
just didn't have the effect they needed to have in order to bring off the
climax of the story, and as a result the ending felt fairly empty. (The
"give me a sedative" ploy, on the other hand, was smartly set up,
since the effect of the herbs as a counteragent had been set up since the
episode's teaser. Proper foreshadowing can work wonders in making
a potentially silly idea seem plausible.)

I also had to wonder a bit about Kira's true reaction to Prin's
comments. Her claim that "you were all guilty and you were all
legitimate targets" is certainly the sort of thing I'd expect her to say
under that circumstance, but the events back in season 1's "Duet" had
seemed to make her reconsider the idea that every Cardassian was
guilty, and I was sorry not to see any real evidence of soul-searching
on her part afterward.

Overall, though, "The Darkness and the Light" had enough power to
make up for a disappointing ending. Some comments on a few other
details, positive and negative:

-- For the second week in a row, Worf wound up in a humorous
scene that *didn't* feel forced. "I do not smirk -- but if I did, this
would be a good opportunity" is a wonderful line, and one I hope I
get a chance to use myself someday. :-) (I also appreciated "I am a
graduate of Starfleet Academy; I know many things." Nicely cryptic.)

-- Technobabble here was treated the way it ought to be. Worf's
opening discussion about how Kira made tracking her difficult had all
the earmarks of a long and boring litany, and Sisko's "I know what
the *difficulties* are. You have your orders -- dismissed." was
absolutely sublime.

-- The scene where Kira, Dax and Nog decode the scrambling and
discover that the killer's using Kira's own voice to send the messages
was wonderfully done. Nog was useful without being overkill, and
the realization of whose voice it was made for some nice shivers.

-- While I liked Furel and Lupaza appearing without warning, the
whole scene of Kira skulking around in the dark felt off, particularly
since she decided to be a moron and pose silhouetted in the light of the
window. Now that's a smart move.

-- Speaking of Furel and Lupaza, if you haven't seen "Shakaar" it's
not all that obvious that Furel only has one arm. There are almost no
shots where that's made clear at all, and those shots where it is clear
are extremely brief.

-- And, speaking of directors' choices of shots, Michael Vejar's name
should be familiar to viewers of "Babylon 5", and his style was very
much in view here. The harsh lighting during Kira's confrontation
with Silaran Prin echoed some work he'd done in B5's "Comes the
Inquisitor", and some of the quick and jumpy transitions felt closely
akin to some he'd done in "Convictions." It's nice to see someone
else with a recognizable style. (For the record, Vejar also directed
about half a dozen other B5 episodes, including "Messages from
Earth", "A Late Delivery From Avalon", and both parts of the two-
part "War Without End.")

That should about cover it. So, wrapping up:

Writing: Some pitfalls in the last act were a problem, but the basic
story was good and a lot of the details were marvelous.
Directing: Taut and moody. Me like.
Acting: No complaints here. Nana Visitor was in top form, and
Randy Oglesby did an interesting job as Prin.

OVERALL: Hmm. The ending mars it enough that I'd call it an 8.
Not as magnificent as it was initially promising, but quite solid.

NEXT: Two weeks of reruns, starting with "The Ship". See you in
three weeks.

Tim Lynch (Harvard-Westlake School, Science Dept.)
tly...@alumni.caltech.edu <*>
"I am a graduate of Starfleet Academy. I know many things."
-- Worf
--
Copyright 1997, Timothy W. Lynch. All rights reserved, but feel free to ask...
This article is explicitly prohibited from being used in any off-net
compilation without due attribution and *express written consent of the
author*. Walnut Creek and other CD-ROM distributors, take note.

David E. Sluss

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Jan 12, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/12/97
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tly...@alumnae.caltech.edu (Timothy W. Lynch) reviewed:
[substantial snips]


spoilers


TL>January feels like Old Home Month for DS9 so far. In two weeks,
TL>we've had a show delving deeply into Bajoran religion and Sisko's
TL>role as the Emissary, and a show highlighting Kira's past in the
TL>resistance against the Cardassians. Those who found the Bajoran
TL>focus during the first two seasons "boring" will probably be
TL>underwhelmed by this turn of events, but I see it as further evidence
TL>that there's a lot of meat left in Bajoran issues to chew on.

As one of those who is on record as finding many of the season 1-3
Bajoran shows boring, I must admit that 'Rapture' and 'D & L' (along
with last year's 'Accession') have convinced me that 'Bajor shows'
can be made interesting on a consistent basis.

TL>As the first real Kira-centered story of the season, furthermore, it
TL>managed to lay some of my worries to rest about what was done to the
TL>character over season four. This Kira was not the sneezing, giggly
TL>laughingstock we saw over much of last year -- oh, no. This Kira
TL>was chafing at being safely tucked away aboard a station while her
TL>friends were being killed off. This Kira was upset about not being
TL>able to act as a major in the Bajoran militia should. This Kira was
TL>sardonic, biting, and prone to snap at people under pressure. This
TL>Kira was ready to flatten anyone who stood in her way, and finally to
TL>steal a ship and go searching for the assassin herself. In short, this
TL>Kira was *damned* interesting viewing -- a whole lot more so than
TL>she has been for much of the last two years.

While I applaud the return of the 'old Kira' as much as anyone, I
think this Kira is almost a regression to her 'Emissary' characterization.
A lot of her characterization over the past four years (including some _good_
development in seasons 1-3) seemed to have been erased. Her attitude toward
the Cardassian servant seemed brutal for someone who showed compassion
to file clerk Maritza (sp) in 'Duet.' It's at odds with her realization
over the past few years that not all Cardassians were brutal overseers.
When Maritza was murdered, the killer's explanation was that 'He's
Cardassian; that's enough.' Kira's reply was 'No, it's not.' Now we
have Kira saying 'You were on Bajor, and you deserved what you got, no
matter what your role.' Obviously, she can't be expected to be happy
with the man who killed five of her friends, but the post-'Duet' Kira
should have displayed some understanding of his situation. I know that
people want the 'old Kira' back, but do we want to lose _all_ of her
character development over the last four years?

TL>[T]he arrival and subsequent death of Furel and
TL>Lupaza made Kira feel even less safe, since the attack took place on
TL>the station, and made the viewer feel much worse than the other deaths
TL>had, since we'd seen (and liked, at least in my case) Furel and Lupaza
TL>in the past, so they weren't just associates of Kira with no other
TL>identity. (Frankly, I was really sorry to see that pair get killed, as I
TL>liked them a lot -- but if I *didn't* feel annoyed to lose them, I
TL>suppose they wouldn't have been particularly interesting in the first
TL>place.)

Well, I wasn't sorry to see them go. To me they were a sour reminder of the
episode 'Shakaar' which may be my most hated DS9 episode. My only regret
is that Shakaar himself, a lousy character portrayed by a lousy actor
(IMO of course), wasn't around to get zipped as well.

TL>I also had to wonder a bit about Kira's true reaction to Prin's
TL>comments. Her claim that "you were all guilty and you were all
TL>legitimate targets" is certainly the sort of thing I'd expect her to say
TL>under that circumstance, but the events back in season 1's "Duet" had
TL>seemed to make her reconsider the idea that every Cardassian was
TL>guilty, and I was sorry not to see any real evidence of soul-searching
TL>on her part afterward.

As I said above, I agree completely. I was also troubled by the (apparent)
lack of consequences for Kira's actions, i.e. assaulting station and
Starfleet security personnel, breaking into the security office, stealing
a runabout. On the other hand, Worf's criminal activity in 'Let He...' was
never punished, and Kira's actions are a hell of a lot more justifiable
than his.

TL>-- Technobabble here was treated the way it ought to be. Worf's
TL>opening discussion about how Kira made tracking her difficult had all
TL>the earmarks of a long and boring litany, and Sisko's "I know what
TL>the *difficulties* are. You have your orders -- dismissed." was
TL>absolutely sublime.

Right on. I absolutely grinned at that line.

TL>OVERALL: Hmm. The ending mars it enough that I'd call it an 8.
TL>Not as magnificent as it was initially promising, but quite solid.

The best Bajor show since ... well, 'Rapture.' Call me a convert (for
now anyway).
--
| David E. Sluss | SLUGS score | "Men stumble over the truth from |
| A.K.A. Slugenstein | 15,000 | time to time, but most pick |
| email: slu...@pitt.edu | 11/12/96 | themselves up and hurry off as |
| NTN: SLUGS (Hemingway's) | Film at 11. | if nothing happened" W. Churchill |


David E. Sluss

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Jan 12, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/12/97
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sl...@vms.cis.pitt.edu (David E. Sluss) wrote:
DES>While I applaud the return of the 'old Kira' as much as anyone, I
DES>think this Kira is almost a regression to her 'Emissary' characterization.

tly...@alumnae.caltech.edu (Timothy W. Lynch) wrote:
TL>Apart from the ending, I don't agree. Her dialogue with Furel and
TL>Lupaza about not being able to wage private wars is not something the
TL>early Kira would have said, or even thought.

That's what she _said_, but in the end isn't that exactly what she chose
to do, wage a private war? It looked clear to me that she intended to kill
the assassin when she found him. Isn't that why she left DS9 on the sly,
sneaking around, masking warp sigs, etc.? Her actions are understandable,
of course, but they don't seem consistent with the Kira who has learned
to work within the system.

TL>I agree with you about
TL>the ending moments of the show, though, and it seemed surprising.

Kira's words about the guilt of all Cardassians jarred me more than
anything, but many of her words and actions seemed to come straight
out of season one. Just MHO, of course. And in any case, it's worth
it if it means we've seen the last of the simpering season four Kira.
Time will tell.
--
| David E. Sluss | "Men stumble over the truth from time to |
| A.K.A. Slugenstein | time, but most pick themselves up and |
| email: slu...@pitt.edu | up and hurry off as if nothing happened" |
| NTN: SLUGS (Hemingway's) | Sir Winston Churchill |


Timothy W. Lynch

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Jan 13, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/13/97
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sl...@vms.cis.pitt.edu (David E. Sluss) writes:
>tly...@alumnae.caltech.edu (Timothy W. Lynch) reviewed:
>[substantial snips]
Spoilerage...


>TL>January feels like Old Home Month for DS9 so far. In two weeks,
>TL>we've had a show delving deeply into Bajoran religion and Sisko's
>TL>role as the Emissary, and a show highlighting Kira's past in the
>TL>resistance against the Cardassians. Those who found the Bajoran
>TL>focus during the first two seasons "boring" will probably be
>TL>underwhelmed by this turn of events, but I see it as further evidence
>TL>that there's a lot of meat left in Bajoran issues to chew on.

>As one of those who is on record as finding many of the season 1-3
>Bajoran shows boring, I must admit that 'Rapture' and 'D & L' (along
>with last year's 'Accession') have convinced me that 'Bajor shows'
>can be made interesting on a consistent basis.

Ha. Another convert. Hot damn. So, what do you think of B5? :-)

>While I applaud the return of the 'old Kira' as much as anyone, I
>think this Kira is almost a regression to her 'Emissary' characterization.

Apart from the ending, I don't agree. Her dialogue with Furel and


Lupaza about not being able to wage private wars is not something the

early Kira would have said, or even thought. I agree with you about


the ending moments of the show, though, and it seemed surprising.

Tim Lynch

Chris Blaise

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Jan 13, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/13/97
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On 12 Jan 97 22:31:42 EDT, sl...@vms.cis.pitt.edu (David E. Sluss)
wrote:

>That's what she _said_, but in the end isn't that exactly what she chose


>to do, wage a private war? It looked clear to me that she intended to kill
>the assassin when she found him. Isn't that why she left DS9 on the sly,
>sneaking around, masking warp sigs, etc.? Her actions are understandable,
>of course, but they don't seem consistent with the Kira who has learned
>to work within the system.

Yes, Kira "regressed" a bit to get the job done but given the
the cirumstances of a) Her friends from the resistance were being
killed and b) The system wasn't able to help, it only made perfect
sense.

You also have a problem in that she wasn't more understanding
toward the killer, compared to her actions in Duet. The circumstances
are quite different. In Duet you had someone who was being insulting
to a perverse degree and once it was revealed that his actions were
the result of tremendous guilt, sympathy was an all to natural
reaction, even for a Bajoran.

However, this guy was entirely unsympathetic. He was acting
out a personal vendetta to kill even more people from his
justification of "You hurt me and killed others". Given that his
(former?) alliance did the same to the Bajorans, I find, in simplistic
terms, both his and her arguments null and that he clearly tipped the
scales with his actions in the episode. I felt that more than
justified Kira to have the attitude toward him that she did.

If anything, I thought she had a lot more restaint than the
writers could have injected.

TTYL
Chris


Dave Roy

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Jan 13, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/13/97
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On 12 Jan 97 22:31:42 EDT, sl...@vms.cis.pitt.edu (David E. Sluss)
wrote:

>sl...@vms.cis.pitt.edu (David E. Sluss) wrote:

>DES>While I applaud the return of the 'old Kira' as much as anyone, I
>DES>think this Kira is almost a regression to her 'Emissary' characterization.
>
>tly...@alumnae.caltech.edu (Timothy W. Lynch) wrote:

>TL>Apart from the ending, I don't agree. Her dialogue with Furel and
>TL>Lupaza about not being able to wage private wars is not something the
>TL>early Kira would have said, or even thought.

>
>That's what she _said_, but in the end isn't that exactly what she chose
>to do, wage a private war? It looked clear to me that she intended to kill
>the assassin when she found him. Isn't that why she left DS9 on the sly,
>sneaking around, masking warp sigs, etc.? Her actions are understandable,
>of course, but they don't seem consistent with the Kira who has learned
>to work within the system.

I was under the impression that it was the deaths of her two close
friends that drove her over the edge. Before that, she was perfectly
willing (though frustrated) to work in the system.

>TL>I agree with you about
>TL>the ending moments of the show, though, and it seemed surprising.
>
>Kira's words about the guilt of all Cardassians jarred me more than
>anything, but many of her words and actions seemed to come straight
>out of season one. Just MHO, of course. And in any case, it's worth
>it if it means we've seen the last of the simpering season four Kira.
>Time will tell.

I do hope that the old Kira is back, and tempered with stuff that
she's learned throughout the past couple of seasons. You're right,
only time will tell.

Dave Roy


David E. Sluss

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Jan 13, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/13/97
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sl...@vms.cis.pitt.edu (David E. Sluss) wrote:
DES>That's what she _said_, but in the end isn't that exactly what she chose
DES>to do, wage a private war? It looked clear to me that she intended to kill
DES>the assassin when she found him. ... Her actions are understandable,
DES>of course, but they don't seem consistent with the Kira who has learned
DES>to work within the system.

ch...@blaise.com (Chris Blaise) wrote:
CB>Yes, Kira "regressed" a bit to get the job done but given the
CB>the cirumstances of a) Her friends from the resistance were being
CB>killed

Right; that's what I meant when I said her actions were understandable.

CB>and b) The system wasn't able to help, it only made perfect
CB>sense.

The system _was_ working. Odo had the suspect list and would have captured
Prin in short order undoubtedly. Yet Kira still felt the need to 'handle'
the matter herself (and walk into a trap in the process). Her desire
for revenge is understandable -- just as Prin's is, IMO.

CB>You also have a problem in that she wasn't more understanding
CB>toward the killer, compared to her actions in Duet. The circumstances
CB>are quite different. In Duet you had someone who was being insulting
CB>to a perverse degree and once it was revealed that his actions were
CB>the result of tremendous guilt, sympathy was an all to natural
CB>reaction, even for a Bajoran.

True

CB>However, this guy was entirely unsympathetic. He was acting
CB>out a personal vendetta to kill even more people from his
CB>justification of "You hurt me and killed others".

As was Kira (it's a chicken and egg argument, I suppose). Shirt-
ironer Prin was an innocent (despite Kira's comment at the end to the
effect that 'Innocence is sometimes only a cover for the guilty'),
as were, presumably, the Gul's children who were killed in the attack
-- more innocent than the Shakaar resistence cell, perhaps.

CB>Given that his (former?) alliance did the same to the Bajorans,
CB>I find, in simplistic terms, both his and her arguments null and
CB>that he clearly tipped the scales with his actions in the episode.
CB>I felt that more than justified Kira to have the attitude toward him
CB>that she did.

Toward _him_, sure, but her blanket condemnation of _all_ Cardassians
seems out of place for the Kira who has encountered so many 'good'
Cardassians: Maritza (sp) in 'Duet,' the Legate in 'Second Skin,'
the two scientists in 'Destiny,' etc.; the Kira who has gained
a grudging respect even for Overseer Dukat and taken his daughter
under her wing (What would Ziyal think about Kira's words, I wonder.)
Sure, you can argue that it was a tense situation, and Kira said some
things that she didn't really mean, but I would reply that the
situation probably revealed her _true_ fellings toward Cardassians--
note that her comment about innocence and guilt took place after the
situation was over. In the end, I think that this episode reveals
that despite everything that's happened over the past four years, deep
down, she still hates all Cardassians. I'm not saying that's a bad
characterization; in fact it's a perfectly believable one. All I'm
saying is that 1) It jarred me (and that's not necessarily a bad thing)
and 2) It's reminiscent of pre-'Duet' Kira.

CB>If anything, I thought she had a lot more restaint than the
CB>writers could have injected.

Sure, and think about this: The script had it set up so that Kira's
phaser blast was in self-defense. But suppose Prin hadn't come after
her with a weapon and had surrendered. Would Kira still have plugged
him? I think she would have. She went to that planet with murder in
her heart, and the near-C-section wouldn't have dampened that a bit.

Junsok Yang

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Jan 13, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/13/97
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In article <5bdn9e$2...@usenet.srv.cis.pitt.edu>, sl...@vms.cis.pitt.edu
says...

>Toward _him_, sure, but her blanket condemnation of _all_ Cardassians
>seems out of place for the Kira who has encountered so many 'good'
>Cardassians: Maritza (sp) in 'Duet,' the Legate in 'Second Skin,'
>the two scientists in 'Destiny,' etc.; the Kira who has gained
>a grudging respect even for Overseer Dukat and taken his daughter
>under her wing (What would Ziyal think about Kira's words, I wonder.)
>Sure, you can argue that it was a tense situation, and Kira said some
>things that she didn't really mean, but I would reply that the
>situation probably revealed her _true_ fellings toward Cardassians--
>note that her comment about innocence and guilt took place after the
>situation was over. In the end, I think that this episode reveals
>that despite everything that's happened over the past four years, deep
>down, she still hates all Cardassians. I'm not saying that's a bad
>characterization; in fact it's a perfectly believable one. All I'm
>saying is that 1) It jarred me (and that's not necessarily a bad thing)
>and 2) It's reminiscent of pre-'Duet' Kira.

I think, it's a realistic characterization and also a *consistent* one.
If you go to countries which were formerly colonies of Japan during (and
just before) WW2, you will see quite a number of people (probably the
majority) who bear no ill will against Japanese individuals, (and indeed may
have close Japanese friends) but hate the Japanses as a country or a people
(quite bitterly), and distrust the motives of Japan (the country) in a
knee-jerk fashion. Respect for certain individuals or even friendship with
individuals is not quite the same thing as judging the country or a people
as a collective.

--
**************************************************************************

Year, n. A period of three hundred and sixty-five disappointments.

...Ambrose Bierce "The Devil's Dictionary"

Junsok Yang (yan...@yalevm.ycc.yale.edu)
(yan...@minerva.cis.yale.edu)


Timothy W. Lynch

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Jan 14, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/14/97
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sl...@vms.cis.pitt.edu (David E. Sluss) writes:
>sl...@vms.cis.pitt.edu (David E. Sluss) wrote:
>DES>While I applaud the return of the 'old Kira' as much as anyone, I
>DES>think this Kira is almost a regression to her 'Emissary' characterization.
>
>tly...@alumnae.caltech.edu (Timothy W. Lynch) wrote:
>TL>Apart from the ending, I don't agree. Her dialogue with Furel and
>TL>Lupaza about not being able to wage private wars is not something the
>TL>early Kira would have said, or even thought.

>That's what she _said_, but in the end isn't that exactly what she chose


>to do, wage a private war?

Yes, but the old Kira would have done it from the moment the first
cell member was killed. This one didn't until her quarters were blown
up and two of her best friends killed. I think that shows substantial
restraint on her part, actually.

Tim Lynch

Lasher

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Jan 14, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/14/97
to

David E. Sluss <sl...@vms.cis.pitt.edu> wrote in article
<5bdn9e$2...@usenet.srv.cis.pitt.edu>...
.
.

.
> Sure, and think about this: The script had it set up so that Kira's
> phaser blast was in self-defense. But suppose Prin hadn't come after
> her with a weapon and had surrendered. Would Kira still have plugged
> him? I think she would have. She went to that planet with murder in
> her heart, and the near-C-section wouldn't have dampened that a bit.

I think she would have shot him, too, for one simple reason. The phaser
was apparently set to kill.
--

Lasher >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
/=================================================\
The preceding contained adult material and/or
dangerous ideas. If you want to read it again,
discretion is advised.
\ ================================================/
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< las...@maui.netwave.net

Eric C West

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Jan 15, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/15/97
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In article <5bg73q$e...@gap.cco.caltech.edu>, Timothy W. Lynch wrote:
>Yes, but the old Kira would have done it from the moment the first
>cell member was killed. This one didn't until her quarters were blown
>up and two of her best friends killed. I think that shows substantial
>restraint on her part, actually.

I can live with the idea that her final actions stemmed from her "flipping
out" over the deaths of her close friends. What bothered me is that it
seems there won't be any consequences for her actions (assaulting Starfleet
officers, "borrowing" Starfleet property, endangering the unborn child).
Sisko has chewed out other crew members for far less (especially Worf), but
he does nothing here. I can't remember the last time Sisko even stood up
to Kira (maybe "In The Hands Of The Prophets"?). Does she even have to
answer to Sisko anymore? If not, who is her superior in the Bajoran
militia? Or are we all simply supposed to be glad that "the old Kira"
(often a stereotypical harpy) is back?

Moreover, Miles (not to mention Keiko) should be mad as hell at her for
endangering the child. It's not as though she could forget that she was
pregnant; she even sounded concerned when she woke up in sick bay. Of
course, she went right off on her joyride after that, so she mustn't have
been that concerned.

I'm not disppointed with the episode per se; I'm disappointed with Kira.
IMHO some character on the show should have been disappointed with her
too, even if "everything worked out fine."

ecw
e-w...@nwu.edu

Perrin

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Jan 15, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/15/97
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[SPOILER SPACE]

In article <5bcab6$j...@usenet.srv.cis.pitt.edu>,


David E. Sluss <sl...@vms.cis.pitt.edu> wrote:
>sl...@vms.cis.pitt.edu (David E. Sluss) wrote:
>DES>While I applaud the return of the 'old Kira' as much as anyone, I
>DES>think this Kira is almost a regression to her 'Emissary' characterization.

>tly...@alumnae.caltech.edu (Timothy W. Lynch) wrote:
>TL>Apart from the ending, I don't agree. Her dialogue with Furel and
>TL>Lupaza about not being able to wage private wars is not something the
>TL>early Kira would have said, or even thought.

>That's what she _said_, but in the end isn't that exactly what she chose

>to do, wage a private war? It looked clear to me that she intended to kill

>the assassin when she found him. Isn't that why she left DS9 on the sly,
>sneaking around, masking warp sigs, etc.? Her actions are understandable,

>of course, but they don't seem consistent with the Kira who has learned

>to work within the system.

I think she was a bit on edge--having her friends killed like
that, it was obvious that she was next, and it was "him or her" as far
as she was concerned. I think I'd call this an unusual circumstance
that warranted unusual action.

>TL>I agree with you about
>TL>the ending moments of the show, though, and it seemed surprising.

>Kira's words about the guilt of all Cardassians jarred me more than
>anything, but many of her words and actions seemed to come straight
>out of season one. Just MHO, of course. And in any case, it's worth
>it if it means we've seen the last of the simpering season four Kira.
>Time will tell.

I got the impression that she wasn't talking about the guilt of all
Cardassians. If this were so she might be out trying to kill
them now. I think she was saying: "Look, you went into a war zone,
you got hurt, your fault." Not blaming him personally for Bajoran
oppression, but saying his injury was his fault, and not hers. I
don't think she would have killed him or wished him harm if he hadn't
bumped off five of her friends first.

/
:@-) Scott
\

Timothy W. Lynch

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Jan 16, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/16/97
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fi...@merle.acns.nwu.edu (Eric C West) writes:

>I can live with the idea that her final actions stemmed from her "flipping
>out" over the deaths of her close friends. What bothered me is that it
>seems there won't be any consequences for her actions (assaulting Starfleet
>officers, "borrowing" Starfleet property, endangering the unborn child).

[...]


>Moreover, Miles (not to mention Keiko) should be mad as hell at her for
>endangering the child.

Now *these* points I wholeheartedly agree with. I can certainly buy
Kira going off half-cocked, but you're right that there should be some
consequences somewhere, most crucially from the O'Briens. Given that
the pregnancy storyline will be wrapping up soon, I think we ought to
see an O'Brien response soon if at all. If we don't, you're right;
the episode will suffer for its absence.

Tim Lynch

Stephen Ratliff

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Jan 18, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/18/97
to

Eric C West (fi...@merle.acns.nwu.edu) wrote:
:
: In article <5bg73q$e...@gap.cco.caltech.edu>, Timothy W. Lynch wrote:
: >Yes, but the old Kira would have done it from the moment the first
: >cell member was killed. This one didn't until her quarters were blown
: >up and two of her best friends killed. I think that shows substantial
: >restraint on her part, actually.
:
: I can live with the idea that her final actions stemmed from her "flipping

: out" over the deaths of her close friends. What bothered me is that it
: seems there won't be any consequences for her actions (assaulting Starfleet
: officers, "borrowing" Starfleet property, endangering the unborn child).
: Sisko has chewed out other crew members for far less (especially Worf), but
: he does nothing here.

Who says that Sisko didn't. I don't think that this was the time to do
so. If I were Sisko I'd wait for a little while. Kira seemed to be in
shock at the end of the episode. You don't get much of a reaction or
impress someone with the consquences of thier actions when there in
shock. I fully expect that come the next morning on DS9, Kira will be
visiting Sisko's Officer of Doom.

: I can't remember the last time Sisko even stood up


: to Kira (maybe "In The Hands Of The Prophets"?). Does she even have to
: answer to Sisko anymore? If not, who is her superior in the Bajoran
: militia?

She's answerable, this is just the first time in a while that Sisko has
had the need to yell at Kira.

Stephen Ratliff
--
Stephen Ratliff CS Major, Radford University.
srat...@runet.edu Marrissa Stories Author
homepage: http://www.cs.runet.edu/~sratliff/
FAQ Maintainer for alt.startrek.creative FAQs/
Index Maintainer as well index/
http://aviary.share.net/~alara/

"If his words hold wisdom, and his philosphy is honorable, then what
does it matter if he returns. Perhaps the words are more important than
the man." -Ka'less II ST:TNG "Rightful Hier"

Eric C West

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Jan 22, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/22/97
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In article <5brgkg$s...@newslink.runet.edu>, Stephen Ratliff wrote:
>Eric C West (fi...@merle.acns.nwu.edu) wrote:

>: ...What bothered me is that it


>: seems there won't be any consequences for her actions (assaulting Starfleet
>: officers, "borrowing" Starfleet property, endangering the unborn child).
>: Sisko has chewed out other crew members for far less (especially Worf), but
>: he does nothing here.
>
>Who says that Sisko didn't. I don't think that this was the time to do
>so. If I were Sisko I'd wait for a little while. Kira seemed to be in
>shock at the end of the episode. You don't get much of a reaction or
>impress someone with the consquences of thier actions when there in
>shock. I fully expect that come the next morning on DS9, Kira will be
>visiting Sisko's Officer of Doom.

In television, if something does not happen on camera or is not alluded to
on camera, it in effect does not happen. If this wasn't "the time," then
show an extra little scene taking place "the next morning," as is often
done in DS9 episodes. The fact that TPTB didn't care to find the time to
include such a scene (perhaps because it would go against the main thrust
of the show -- that Kira shouldn't have to pay for her wartime actions)
makes the episode suffer slightly in my eyes.

ecw
e-w...@nwu.edu

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