Political Correctness: Sir or Ma'am?
ja...@msu.oscs.montana.edu
to address my female boss at work as sir, I would be pegged as a sexist. It
will be interesting to see how Capt. Janeway is addressed, my guess is that it
will always be in phrases like "..yes Captain."
Blase Martin Louis
: In ST:TNG, captain picard has addressed female admirals as sir, but if I were
: to address my female boss at work as sir, I would be pegged as a sexist. It
: will be interesting to see how Capt. Janeway is addressed, my guess is that it
: will always be in phrases like "..yes Captain."
I understand (no personal experience, admittedly) that in the US military,
all superior officers, male and female, are addressed as "sir."
--Blaze
"Those who find themselves ridiculous
Sit down next to me" -- James
brett jaffee
> ja...@Msu.oscs.montana.edu wrote:
> : In ST:TNG, captain picard has addressed female admirals as sir, but if I were
> : to address my female boss at work as sir, I would be pegged as a sexist. It
> : will be interesting to see how Capt. Janeway is addressed, my guess is that it
> : will always be in phrases like "..yes Captain."
> I understand (no personal experience, admittedly) that in the US military,
> all superior officers, male and female, are addressed as "sir."
I've heard that it is up to the officer in question. Some female officers
prefer sir, som prefer ma'am.
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brett Jaffee
hbac...@huey.csun.edu
on GEnie b.ja...@genie.geis.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Todd
jaffee) wrote:
> I've heard that it is up to the officer in question. Some female officers
> prefer sir, som prefer ma'am.
Regardless of current convention, Star Trek (from at least ST II on) has
been consistent in using the titles "sir" and "mister" without heed to
gender. Probably an important convention for an organization with many
different races that probably have more than just two genders.
VVL
Sha...@debug.cuc.ab.ca
I am currently logged on at a friend's computer so I do not have the
article at hand but I can post the reference later if you would like. In
essence the article goes on to explain that in the Trek universe 'sir' is
considered gender neutral and applicable to either sex and is not meant
to be derogatory.
Though I myself may get slammed for this, I would rather address a
high-ranking military female official as sir than ma'am for the simple
reason that it just seems to show more respect for the authority and
responsabilities that person wields.
Regret
>You are right, the evidence seems to point to the masculine terms being
>considered gender neutral, at least for the original crew. Thus "where
>no man has gone before" makes sense in that context.
>Remember in ST:TWOK how Saavik was called "Mr. Saavik" by Kirk several
>times? Today it would be considered offensive; back then they probably
>thought it was progressive. My feeling is, you should address people
>the way they want you to, its only polite...
"Sir" and "Mr.", are millitary (spc. Naval) expressions. All officers
male/female can
be refferd to as "Mr." XXXX by a superior officer. It doesnt disignate
male, hoever it a title designating reference to being a officer. Its
not inteneded to be sexist, but just a title. After all, all officers are
to be treated with the SAME respect, designating a difference between
male and female would comprimise this. "Sir" is in the same guidlines,
refering the opposite direction from lower ranks to upper ranks. Again
not intended with any sexism.. its just Naval protocal, just as they also
say "aye aye" in the navy as oposed to army/AF where they dont generaly
use that.
Hansel Fredrik Cook
You are right, the evidence seems to point to the masculine terms being
considered gender neutral, at least for the original crew. Thus "where
no man has gone before" makes sense in that context.
Remember in ST:TWOK how Saavik was called "Mr. Saavik" by Kirk several
times? Today it would be considered offensive; back then they probably
thought it was progressive. My feeling is, you should address people
the way they want you to, its only polite...
Hansel Cook
N.H. Dyck
fault that these words have changed meaning. According to society we
call people of authority or people of respect sir, if they are male, and
Madam or Ma'am, if they are female. However, the only word out of the
two that has a gender connection is Ma'am. Sir supposedly originally an
English term of respect to any authority. Go ahead and flame me on this
one, but I think I'm right.
--
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McMaster University, Hamilton ON Canada <<>> "Do or do not, there is no try."
Kevin J Dudak
I believe that they use SIR ans an acronym for Senior In Rank
Grant Burton
SM> >
SM> In the U.S. Air Force the proper term of address for male officers is
SM> sir and for female officers it is ma'am. I know I spent 6 years on
SM> active duty and 6 in the reserves (1980-92). If it has changed since
SM> 1992 I am not aware of it.
The same is of the Australian air force, but the US navy adresses all bridge
officers as SIR, regardless of gender... thus adopted for Star Trek, since
alot of it is based on the US navy..
___/\
/ \ jpi...@rosedale.apana.org.au (>:-I... Captain Picard...>:-)
\___ / Gippsland Trekors Victoria Australia
\* <--' Picard, 2nd season, episode "Peak performance"
"it is possible to go through life and make no mistakes, and
still loose!"
Eoin Meehan
: In the U.S. Air Force the proper term of address for male officers is
: sir and for female officers it is ma'am. I know I spent 6 years on
: active duty and 6 in the reserves (1980-92). If it has changed since
: 1992 I am not aware of it.
Just to add a spin on the discussion - whats the view on the user of
"Mister"?
From observation, it looks like "Mister" can be a naval form of respect
(my first officer, Mister Spock ...) or denegration (I said now MISTER)
or the correct form of address for an Ensign (Leave orbit when ready,
Mister Crusher)
Rgds,
Eoin.
--
eme...@iol.ie
Eoin Meehan
The Trinity Group
172 Merrion Road
Dublin 4
Centurion Tambok
>Scott F. Migaldi (migald...@macmail1.csg.mot.com) wrote:
>: In the U.S. Air Force the proper term of address for male officers is
>: sir and for female officers it is ma'am. I know I spent 6 years on
>: active duty and 6 in the reserves (1980-92). If it has changed since
>: 1992 I am not aware of it.
>Just to add a spin on the discussion - whats the view on the user of
>"Mister"?
>From observation, it looks like "Mister" can be a naval form of respect
>(my first officer, Mister Spock ...) or denegration (I said now MISTER)
>or the correct form of address for an Ensign (Leave orbit when ready,
>Mister Crusher)
In STII, everyone refered to her as "Mr. Saavik"
--
JOLAN TRUE
Centurion Tambok "A captain's place is on the bridge
df0...@uhura.cc.rochester.edu of his ship." -James T. Kirk
WAR IS PEACE FREEDOM IS SLAVERY IGNORANCE IS SPLEEN
Scott F. Migaldi
In the U.S. Air Force the proper term of address for male officers is
sir and for female officers it is ma'am. I know I spent 6 years on
active duty and 6 in the reserves (1980-92). If it has changed since
1992 I am not aware of it.
--
Scott F. Migaldi, KF5JQ e-mail:migald...@macmail1.csg.mot.com
The opinions expressed are my own and my cat's. They are not my
employer's.
**Don't be roadkill on the information superhighway!**
Markku Herd
>In STII, everyone refered to her as "Mr. Saavik"
In STVI:
Valeris: "You men have work?"
Burke & Samno: "Yes Ma'am."
--
-- Markku Herd -- ( he...@lut.fi ) -- Paladin For Hire
MALE, 23, attractive, uncultured, absolute boor, financial failure, seeks
similar woman, 20-28 for meaningless relationship. Silly replies only
please.
Brian Duffy
Grant Burton <jpi...@rosedale.apana.org.au> wrote:
>On Thu 13-Oct-1994 6:48p, Scott F. Migaldi wrote:
>SM> >
>
>SM> In the U.S. Air Force the proper term of address for male officers is
>SM> sir and for female officers it is ma'am. I know I spent 6 years on
>SM> active duty and 6 in the reserves (1980-92). If it has changed since
>SM> 1992 I am not aware of it.
>
>The same is of the Australian air force, but the US navy adresses all bridge
>officers as SIR, regardless of gender... thus adopted for Star Trek, since
>alot of it is based on the US navy..
It's still the same in the U.S. Air Force today for officers (Males = Sir,
Females = Ma'am). Startrek is based on the Navy and thats why they call
everyone 'Sir'. It's also the reason why the call certain bridge
officers 'Mister'. So, Startrek isn't sexist ......
THE NAVY IS!!! (hehehehe).
C/3c Brian Duffy, AFROTC
(The Air Force is an equal opportunity employer, we'll take Klingons, as
long as they're not illegal aliens)
Peter P. Benac
Actually you are both right.
Prior to 1980 any officer in the U.S. Military by an act of Congress
was deemed "An Officer and a Gentlemen". This term was dropped from the
contract signed by an Officer in the early 1980.
It is however still correct to address the holder of a rank higher in
the O-1 to O-10 range (Lt. - General or Ensign - Admiral) as Sir.
Female Ensigns are still addressed as Mr. as well as Army Warrants. Army
warrents are also addressed as Chief one they obtain the rank of CWO-2.
To coin a phrase by the previous poster I should know I was in the
military from 1975-1983 and I still hold a rank in the Individual Ready
Reserve of CWO-3
Qapla'
HuDmey nagh
To Die with honor is Glorious. Do not die without it...
David Jaroslav
>
>Scott F. Migaldi (migald...@macmail1.csg.mot.com) wrote:
>
>: In the U.S. Air Force the proper term of address for male officers is
>: sir and for female officers it is ma'am. I know I spent 6 years on
>: active duty and 6 in the reserves (1980-92). If it has changed since
>: 1992 I am not aware of it.
>
>"Mister"?
>
>From observation, it looks like "Mister" can be a naval form of respect
>(my first officer, Mister Spock ...) or denegration (I said now MISTER)
>or the correct form of address for an Ensign (Leave orbit when ready,
>Mister Crusher)
In standard U.S./British Commonwealth naval parlance, Mister is the form
in which one commissioned officer would address another who is his/her
subordinate (e.g., take us out, Mister Saavik); a Petty Officer would not
be referred to as Mister (e.g., Chief, not Mister O'Brien); no one above
the rank of Commander is addressed as Mister by anyone (they would be
addressed as Captain, Commodore, or Admiral); no one in active
command, whatever their rank, would be called Mister (so far as I recall,
Adm. Nechayev never referred to "Mister Sisko.")
--you asked, I posted it.