Dorothy J. Heydt (1942 - 2022)

[jdni...@panix.com]

Seanan McGuire, others, report that Dorothy passed away.

https://twitter.com/seananmcguire/status/1541996445238120448

[Bill Gill]

On 6/29/2022 7:55 AM, jdni...@panix.com wrote:
> Seanan McGuire, others, report that Dorothy passed away.
>
> https://twitter.com/seananmcguire/status/1541996445238120448

I'm sorry to hear that. I enjoyed working on digitizing her books.

Bill

[Michael F. Stemper]

On 29/06/2022 07.55, jdni...@panix.com wrote:
> Seanan McGuire, others, report that Dorothy passed away.
>
> https://twitter.com/seananmcguire/status/1541996445238120448

Damn.

--
Michael F. Stemper
I feel more like I do now than I did when I came in.

[Chris Buckley]

On 2022-06-29, jdni...@panix.com <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
> Seanan McGuire, others, report that Dorothy passed away.
>
> https://twitter.com/seananmcguire/status/1541996445238120448

I'm very sorry to hear that. She was a remarkably good person and
lived her life focusing on the things important to her and enriching
other people's lives because she so willingly shared those things.

Chris

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

In article <t9hj5q$1efua$1...@dont-email.me>,

Sigh. Not a surprise, but very unwelcome news.
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

[pete...@gmail.com]

On Wednesday, June 29, 2022 at 8:55:18 AM UTC-4, jdni...@panix.com wrote:
> Seanan McGuire, others, report that Dorothy passed away.
>
> https://twitter.com/seananmcguire/status/1541996445238120448

So sad. I met her and Hal once, about 5 years ago, but I knew her online for
decades.

At least we know. So many regulars from rasfw and rasfw just vanish.

Pt

[James Nicoll]

In article <1ba6a87d-4e6c-48af...@googlegroups.com>,

As Katherine Blake, she wrote The Interior Life, a rather unusual fantasy
that publisher Baen had _no_ idea how to market.

My review

https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/all-it-is-is-just-my-life

Jo Walton's review

https://www.tor.com/2010/01/08/saving-both-worlds-katherine-blake-dorothy-heydts-lemgthe-interior-lifelemg/

Dorothy's work is available here for free download.

http://www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

[Ahasuerus]

On Wednesday, June 29, 2022 at 8:55:18 AM UTC-4, jdni...@panix.com wrote:

> Seanan McGuire, others, report that Dorothy passed away.
>
> https://twitter.com/seananmcguire/status/1541996445238120448

In addition to publishing SF, she wrote early self-insert fan fiction
("Dorothy and Myfanwy", Star Trek) and created one of the Vulcan
languages -- see https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Dorothy_Jones

[James Nicoll]

In article <66044e97-52db-4f63...@googlegroups.com>,

I believe one of her fannish inventions (Ni'var: Vulcan term
referencing duality) was incorporated into Trek canon.

[Don]

jdni...@panix.com wrote:
> Seanan McGuire, others, report that Dorothy passed away.
>
> https://twitter.com/seananmcguire/status/1541996445238120448

One of my favorite Dorothy anecdotes was where, as a teenager (to the
best of my recollection) she found herself in a class with a high minded
high school teacher, a lover of literature, who despised plebeian, pulpy
science fiction. Dorothy avidly read _Astounding_ at the time.
At some point, the teacher gave his students an assignment to write
a fictional story. After the homework was handed-in the teacher awarded
an A to one particular tale.
It then became Dorothy's delightful duty to teach the teacher. To
show how a story worthy of an A actually appeared in _Astounding_ first.
To patiently explain how a thing springs forth fully formed from pulpy
pages as a plagiarization.

Danke,

--
Don.......My cat's )\._.,--....,'``. https://crcomp.net/reviews.php
telltale tall tail /, _.. \ _\ (`._ ,.
tells tall tales.. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'

[Tony Nance]

On Wednesday, June 29, 2022 at 8:55:18 AM UTC-4, jdni...@panix.com wrote:

> Seanan McGuire, others, report that Dorothy passed away.
>
> https://twitter.com/seananmcguire/status/1541996445238120448

Crap. Thanks for letting us know. RIP Dorothy.
- Tony

[Ahasuerus]

On Wednesday, June 29, 2022 at 10:59:46 AM UTC-4, James Nicoll wrote:
> In article <66044e97-52db-4f63...@googlegroups.com>,
> Ahasuerus <ahas...@email.com> wrote:
> >On Wednesday, June 29, 2022 at 8:55:18 AM UTC-4, jdni...@panix.com wrote:
> >> Seanan McGuire, others, report that Dorothy passed away.
> >>
> >> https://twitter.com/seananmcguire/status/1541996445238120448
> >
> >In addition to publishing SF, she wrote early self-insert fan fiction
> >("Dorothy and Myfanwy", Star Trek) and created one of the Vulcan
> >languages -- see https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Dorothy_Jones
> I believe one of her fannish inventions (Ni'var: Vulcan term
> referencing duality) was incorporated into Trek canon.

Yes indeed -- see
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Ni%27Var#Ni'Var_(word)

[Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha]

t...@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) wrote in
news:ji33cb...@mid.individual.net:

> In article <t9hj5q$1efua$1...@dont-email.me>,
> Bill Gill <bill...@cox.net> wrote:
>>On 6/29/2022 7:55 AM, jdni...@panix.com wrote:
>>> Seanan McGuire, others, report that Dorothy passed away.
>>>
>>> https://twitter.com/seananmcguire/status/1541996445238120448
>>I'm sorry to hear that. I enjoyed working on digitizing her books.
>>
>>Bill
>
> Sigh. Not a surprise, but very unwelcome news.

The world is smaller place.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

[Johnny Tindalos]

jdni...@panix.com wrote in news:t9hi3h$fgt$1...@panix1.panix.com:

> https://twitter.com/seananmcguire/status/1541996445238120448

Oh dear, what sad (and sadly expected) news. Will miss her posts and good
nature, and I really liked her writing, too.

[BCFD36]

On 6/29/22 05:55, jdni...@panix.com wrote:
> Seanan McGuire, others, report that Dorothy passed away.
>
> https://twitter.com/seananmcguire/status/1541996445238120448

Truly sad news. For a person I never met face to face, I really liked
her. The surprising thing is that it looked like she posted YESTERDAY in
the other thread.

She was one of the reasons I read this group.

--
Dave Scruggs
Captain, Boulder Creek Fire (Retired)
Sr. Software Engineer - Stellar Solutions (Definitely Retired)

[Lynn McGuire]

On 6/29/2022 7:55 AM, jdni...@panix.com wrote:

> Seanan McGuire, others, report that Dorothy passed away.
>
> https://twitter.com/seananmcguire/status/1541996445238120448

We will miss her voice.

Lynn

[Scott Lurndal]

BCFD36 <bcf...@cruzio.com> writes:
>On 6/29/22 05:55, jdni...@panix.com wrote:
>> Seanan McGuire, others, report that Dorothy passed away.
>>
>> https://twitter.com/seananmcguire/status/1541996445238120448
>
>Truly sad news. For a person I never met face to face, I really liked
>her. The surprising thing is that it looked like she posted YESTERDAY in
>the other thread.

She had just returned from Hospital apparently.

>She was one of the reasons I read this group.

Ditto. She will be missed.

[Stephen Harker]

jdni...@panix.com writes:

> Seanan McGuire, others, report that Dorothy passed away.
>
> https://twitter.com/seananmcguire/status/1541996445238120448

Very sad to hear. She was unfailingly interesting and kind in her
posts for the more than thirty years I have been reading first
rec.arts.sf-lovers and now rec.arts.sf.written. I enjoyed most of her
fiction that I read both in magazines and books, it was good to have it
put up to be read recently.

--
Stephen Harker sjha...@netspace.net.au
was: http://sjharker.customer.netspace.net.au/
now: http://members.iinet.net.au/~sjha...@netspace.net.au/
or: http://members.iinet.net.au/~sjharker_nbn/

[The Horny Goat]

On 29 Jun 2022 13:45:48 GMT, t...@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan

<tednolan>) wrote:

>In article <t9hj5q$1efua$1...@dont-email.me>,
>Bill Gill <bill...@cox.net> wrote:
>>On 6/29/2022 7:55 AM, jdni...@panix.com wrote:
>>> Seanan McGuire, others, report that Dorothy passed away.
>>>
>>> https://twitter.com/seananmcguire/status/1541996445238120448
>>I'm sorry to hear that. I enjoyed working on digitizing her books.
>>
>>Bill
>
>Sigh. Not a surprise, but very unwelcome news.

+1 to that in spades. Argh! First my wife now Dorothy.....

[Moriarty]

On Wednesday, June 29, 2022 at 10:55:18 PM UTC+10, jdni...@panix.com wrote:
> Seanan McGuire, others, report that Dorothy passed away.
>
> https://twitter.com/seananmcguire/status/1541996445238120448

She'll be sorely missed from this group, which she certainly made a better place.

Condolences to Hal and her family.

-Moriarty

[Titus G]

That sums up my sentiments as well. May I impose on Peter Trei to send a
condolence card to family on behalf of this group? Thank you.

[peterw...@hotmail.com]

On Wednesday, June 29, 2022 at 7:55:18 AM UTC-5, jdni...@panix.com wrote:
> Seanan McGuire, others, report that Dorothy passed away.
>
> https://twitter.com/seananmcguire/status/1541996445238120448

Dorothy Heydt had many helpful replies to my questions over the years, for example
about evidentiality in languages. I will miss her.

Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist

[Dorothy J Heydt]

(Hal Heydt)
And she greatly appreciated your work. Consistent with her
wishes, I am including the following.

-------------

To my family, friends, and anyone else interested:

After I have died, tell anyone anything you like, ending with this text:

Cynthia, widow of Demetrius Duilius Artifex (and of Komi, son of
Endreigon, the only husband she had loved, and of Demodoros, whom
no one remembered any more), sat dying in her bed.

Her daughters, granddaughters, and the household servants were caring
for her as she could no longer care for them, but she slipped out
through the soles of her feet and into the depths of the earth.

The place had not changed much since she had seen it last: its grey
colors had faded a trifle, and the stream that had flowed between
her and Komi had stopped moving: frozen, perhaps? But she was dead
now, and could cross it.

The silent dead sat among the trees, the spirits of men and gods
and perhaps others, though if her friends the Qualities were
here, they too had faded. But two remembered morning stars still
shone, Komi's eyes, and she found a place to sit beside him. No
one spoke; perhaps it was unlawful, or maybe just impossible.

But something that might have been time passed, and now a light
shone from the east, filling earth and air with color, and a grat
chorus of voices: LIFT UP YOUR HEADS, YOU GATES, AND BE LIFTED
UP, YOU EVERLASTING DOORS, THAT THE KING OF GLORY MAY COME IN.

who is the King of Glory?

THE LORD OF HOSTS: HEIS THE KING OF GLORY

(save to file)

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <66044e97-52db-4f63...@googlegroups.com>,
Ahasuerus <ahas...@email.com> wrote:

(Hal Heydt)
Which she referred to as the "Myfanwy, Orloff" stories. Myfanwy was
Astrid Anderson (Bear). Dorothy made a number of attempts to
file the Star Trek serial numbers off in order to turn that
material into something that could be publsihed, but never
succeeded. She did come up with some interesting stuff in the
attempt, though.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <2dadf103-b563-439d...@googlegroups.com>,

(Hal Heydt)
Thank you.

I received a call from her endocrinologist, who had treated for
several years, saying that Dorothy would be missed. She didn't
know that Dorothy had a web site with her works available for
download. But that was Dorothy. Modest to a fault. I have
added her final Cynthia story to the web site.

[Sean Eric Fagan]

In article <rE9o7...@kithrup.com>,

Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>I have added her final Cynthia story to the web site.

Which spurred me to finally install certbot, so:

https://www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

and

https://www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/final_cynthia.html

for the story, specifically.

[Jay E. Morris]

On 6/29/2022 7:55 AM, jdni...@panix.com wrote:
> Seanan McGuire, others, report that Dorothy passed away.
>
> https://twitter.com/seananmcguire/status/1541996445238120448

Damn. The best are gone too soon, no matter how many years they have.

[Robert Carnegie]

Thank you, sir.

This group will be sadly quieter and less insightful
with Dorothy Heydt no longer participating. As well as
our topic, she often spoke of your and your family's love
and care, or often enough for us to have some appreciation
of it. And in recent circumstances, she was unfailingly hopeful.

May we honour her? May we help you?

[Quadibloc]

On Wednesday, June 29, 2022 at 6:55:18 AM UTC-6, jdni...@panix.com wrote:
> Seanan McGuire, others, report that Dorothy passed away.

> https://twitter.com/seananmcguire/status/1541996445238120448

I am saddened to hear of her passing, as, like many others, I greatly
enjoyed her participation in this newsgroup.

Despite the news earlier that her health had deteriorated, I had not
expected this at all. From what those updates appeared to imply,
instead I had feared that Dorothy was facing many years ahead with
more severe disabilities, that would have left her unable to use the
computer, except with difficulty and/or special equipment.

I can take some consolation in that, at least, she was spared that.

But that there had been hope that her condition could have been
treated, and kept from worsening, which was not realized, is, on
the other hand, particularly saddening.

John Savard

[art...@yahoo.com]

On Wednesday, June 29, 2022 at 10:04:04 AM UTC-5, Don wrote:
> jdni...@panix.com wrote:
> > Seanan McGuire, others, report that Dorothy passed away.
> >
> > https://twitter.com/seananmcguire/status/1541996445238120448
> One of my favorite Dorothy anecdotes was where, as a teenager (to the
> best of my recollection) she found herself in a class with a high minded
> high school teacher, a lover of literature, who despised plebeian, pulpy
> science fiction. Dorothy avidly read _Astounding_ at the time.
> At some point, the teacher gave his students an assignment to write
> a fictional story. After the homework was handed-in the teacher awarded
> an A to one particular tale.
> It then became Dorothy's delightful duty to teach the teacher. To
> show how a story worthy of an A actually appeared in _Astounding_ first.
> To patiently explain how a thing springs forth fully formed from pulpy
> pages as a plagiarization.

So either Dorothy plagiarized the story to prove a point. (very risky and doesn't seem like her) or another student did so and Dorothy called her out the student out on it. (Hmm. That could get messy).

[Ross Presser]

From the phrasing "After the homework was handed-in the teacher awarded an A to one particular tale."
I would conclude that another student plagiarized.

[Don]

Ross Presser wrote:

An A-worthy followup!

As an avid _Astounding_ reader, Dorothy immediately recognized another
student's story as a plagiarization. So she told the teacher. It
probably got emotionally messy as the teacher experienced extreme
embarrassment. LOL.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <113a8eec-a141-4699...@googlegroups.com>,

The other students story was printed in the school literary
magazine and Dorothy spotted that it was plagerized and informed
the (biased) teacher. Not sure what happened after that and I'm
not in position to ask her.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <9e7931bd-333b-4d20...@googlegroups.com>,

(Hal Heydt)
Thank you for all of that.

Honor her by reading her books. I'm not sure what help can be
done, but if I think of something, I will mention it. I'm just
working through grief. I miss her so and always will. There are
no words. Words were what she did, not me....

[Paul S Person]

Well, that sort of "teacher" /deserves/ to feel extreme embarassment.

Unless, of course, her course was "Snobbery and Stupidity", and she
was employed to teach both.

"Good films are where you find them" has a brother:
Good short stories/longer stories/novels are where you find them.
--
"In this connexion, unquestionably the most significant
development was the disintegration, under Christian
influence, of classical conceptions of the family and
of family right."

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <59da309c-727b-4061...@googlegroups.com>,

As of March, her neurologist estimated that she had perhaps a
year, maybe (at a stretch) two. In the last week in the
hospital, an ALS specialist estimated 1 to 4 weeks.

At least she got to die at home. Small consolation.

ALS is a *terible* "disease" (scare quotes because it is an
autoimmunue condition). It is, functionally, untreatable and
progrssive. A friend I was staying (to be closer to the hospital
than our home) made the comparison that ALS and Alzheimers are
opposites. Altzheimers destroys the mind leaving the body
functional. ALS destroys the body leaving the mind functional.
On the whole, she said she'd prefer Altzheimers, given that ALS
leaves a live, aware, self in a non-functioning body. A horrible
trap.

[William Hyde]

On Wednesday, June 29, 2022 at 8:55:18 AM UTC-4, jdni...@panix.com wrote:
> Seanan McGuire, others, report that Dorothy passed away.
>
> https://twitter.com/seananmcguire/status/1541996445238120448

That is sad. She will be missed.

William Hyde

[Robert Carnegie]

On Wednesday, 29 June 2022 at 16:04:04 UTC+1, Don wrote:
> jdni...@panix.com wrote:
> > Seanan McGuire, others, report that Dorothy passed away.
> >
> > https://twitter.com/seananmcguire/status/1541996445238120448

> One of my favorite Dorothy anecdotes was where, as a teenager (to the
> best of my recollection) she found herself in a class with a high minded
> high school teacher, a lover of literature, who despised plebeian, pulpy
> science fiction. Dorothy avidly read _Astounding_ at the time.
> At some point, the teacher gave his students an assignment to write
> a fictional story. After the homework was handed-in the teacher awarded
> an A to one particular tale.
> It then became Dorothy's delightful duty to teach the teacher. To
> show how a story worthy of an A actually appeared in _Astounding_ first.
> To patiently explain how a thing springs forth fully formed from pulpy
> pages as a plagiarization.

I remember that. She had good stories in which sorcery
and space cats weren't involved at all.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <57a3bf2d-41cf-4e5b...@googlegroups.com>,

(Hal Heydt)
Thank you. For me, it a sadness that will never end. I will
miss her sorely for the rest of my life. I don't have the words
for how much I miss her...

[Don]

Dorothy J Heydt wrote:

Thank you for your clarification - for the addition of the most germane,
overlooked detail: published in the school literary magazine. Given this
circumstance, my storied satisfaction swells at least ten-fold.
Dorothy no doubt felt ethically-bound to report such blatant, in-
your-face plagiarism, let the chips fall where they may. Or rather, the
eggs, let the eggs fall where they may upon a biased teacher's freshly
egged face.

Dorothy also shared an anecdote about you, Hal. She'd innocently mention
the time you once crammed your pockets full of paperbacks to prepare for
a mandatory high school pep rally. After the rally started, coaches
commenced to confiscate your books, one at a time, as they caught you
out with book in hand. Whereupon, moments later, you simply pulled out
another book held in reserve. (A superb tactic, bravo!)
The "mandatory high school pep really" element of the anecdote
typically triggered at least one rasw reader to share, with the group,
his negative opinion of high school coaches. Then Kevrob inevitably
intervened to talk about how athletes loved his father, a high school
coach. Embarrassment inevitably ensued...

[Dorothy J Heydt]

(Hal Heydt)
The book collection extended to 4, and in a briefcase I habitually used
(this being before the spread of proper backpacks...it was 1965).

The coach gave up after confiscating the third book.

At the end, I walked up to him, held out my hand, and he gave
them back. All without a word from either of us.

I was given to understand that a year or two later (I graduated
in 1966) the policy was changed and the rallies were optional,
with the alternative being to spend the time in the school
library. Don't throw me in that briar patch....

The high school took its team name and mascot from USC, and
there was some rah-rah type from there that would speak at the
rallies. To this day I harbor ill-will towards USC, and it
grates every time KDFC mentions that they are under the USC wing.
My dislike is tempered--minimally--that one of their big donors
(Keck) helped get telescopes built on Mauna Kea.

[Alan]

My condolences and sympathies to you, Hal.

Just over one year ago, my younger brother succumbed to cancer at the
age of 56.

I have no idea how I will ever get over it.

[Pete Tillman]

Here's one to remember Dorothy by, from the glory days of rasfw:
> Just becuae you misees the point of the article lady, don;t think it
> is not irrelevant. --'Lazarus Cain', to Dorothy J Heydt, rasfw 6/7/04

Rest in peace, Lady Dorothy.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

(Hal Heydt)
You have my condolences. I am told that time heals all wounds,
but some are very, very deep.

[Alan]

Let's hope we both find our healing.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

(Hal Heydt)
I promised Dorothy that I would do my best to hang on for the sake
of the children and grandchildren and cats. The cats are 2 years
old. The youngest grandchild is 15 months. So I need to survive
for 20 years.

I have decided what I intend to say at the SCA general memorial
next Beltane.

Along the lines of a song she wrote about how many from the West
Kingdom it takes to light a candle (None. Our candle has been
burning brightly since [SCA] time began.), she lit so many
candles for so many people, but since hers has gone out, I am
left alone in the dark.

[J. Clarke]

On Wed, 29 Jun 2022 14:06:28 -0000 (UTC), jdni...@panix.com (James
Nicoll) wrote:

>In article <1ba6a87d-4e6c-48af...@googlegroups.com>,

>pete...@gmail.com <pete...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>On Wednesday, June 29, 2022 at 8:55:18 AM UTC-4, jdni...@panix.com wrote:
>>> Seanan McGuire, others, report that Dorothy passed away.
>>>
>>> https://twitter.com/seananmcguire/status/1541996445238120448
>>

>>So sad. I met her and Hal once, about 5 years ago, but I knew her online for
>>decades.
>>
>>At least we know. So many regulars from rasfw and rasfw just vanish.
>
>As Katherine Blake, she wrote The Interior Life, a rather unusual fantasy
>that publisher Baen had _no_ idea how to market.

Which is sad because it's a marvelous story.

>My review
>
>https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/all-it-is-is-just-my-life
>
>Jo Walton's review
>
>https://www.tor.com/2010/01/08/saving-both-worlds-katherine-blake-dorothy-heydts-lemgthe-interior-lifelemg/
>
>Dorothy's work is available here for free download.
>
>http://www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

[J. Clarke]

On Wed, 29 Jun 2022 09:41:24 -0700 (PDT), Ahasuerus
<ahas...@email.com> wrote:

>On Wednesday, June 29, 2022 at 10:59:46 AM UTC-4, James Nicoll wrote:
>> In article <66044e97-52db-4f63...@googlegroups.com>,

>> Ahasuerus <ahas...@email.com> wrote:
>> >On Wednesday, June 29, 2022 at 8:55:18 AM UTC-4, jdni...@panix.com wrote:
>> >> Seanan McGuire, others, report that Dorothy passed away.
>> >>
>> >> https://twitter.com/seananmcguire/status/1541996445238120448
>> >

>> >In addition to publishing SF, she wrote early self-insert fan fiction
>> >("Dorothy and Myfanwy", Star Trek) and created one of the Vulcan
>> >languages -- see https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Dorothy_Jones

>> I believe one of her fannish inventions (Ni'var: Vulcan term
>> referencing duality) was incorporated into Trek canon.
>
>Yes indeed -- see
>https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Ni%27Var#Ni'Var_(word)

The new name of Vulcan in the later seasons of Discovery, after in the
far future the Vulcans and Romulans reunited.

[Scott Lurndal]

So long as you have loved ones, you'll never be completely alone.

[Paul S Person]

Taking another bite at the same apple, allow me to reveal that,
greatly encouraged by a teacher (not, so far as I can recall, a coach)
I had no reason to distrust at the time, I actually attended one such
rally (ours were voluntary and occurred /before/ the start of classes,
BTW). Never again, and the teacher got /really/ upset when I explained
that, having shown once that he could not be trusted, I would never
trust him again. At any time. On any topic. Ever.

It's amazing the number of people who think they can betray your trust
again and again and again with no consequences. And, boy, do they
squeal when told otherwise.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <vbDvK.164509$9j2.1...@fx33.iad>,

(Hal Heydt)
Physically, true enough. In other ways...there is this enormous
hole that cannot be filled.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <rb9tbhhp907ggfpjn...@4ax.com>,

J. Clarke <jclarke...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Wed, 29 Jun 2022 14:06:28 -0000 (UTC), jdni...@panix.com (James
>Nicoll) wrote:
>
>>In article <1ba6a87d-4e6c-48af...@googlegroups.com>,
>>pete...@gmail.com <pete...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>On Wednesday, June 29, 2022 at 8:55:18 AM UTC-4, jdni...@panix.com wrote:
>>>> Seanan McGuire, others, report that Dorothy passed away.
>>>>
>>>> https://twitter.com/seananmcguire/status/1541996445238120448
>>>
>>>So sad. I met her and Hal once, about 5 years ago, but I knew her online for
>>>decades.
>>>
>>>At least we know. So many regulars from rasfw and rasfw just vanish.
>>
>>As Katherine Blake, she wrote The Interior Life, a rather unusual fantasy
>>that publisher Baen had _no_ idea how to market.
>
>Which is sad because it's a marvelous story.

(Hal Heydt)
And that was *after* another company took an option on a portion
and outline, then decided not to actually buy because (a) they
hadn't realized that they only had about 1/3 of the full work,
and (b) it wasn't a romance.

Did get some use out of that, though. Dorothy used the option
money to buy a copy of The Plan of St. Gall at the
pre-publication price.

[pete...@gmail.com]

One of her most treasured possessions, iirc.

Pt

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <ca9fe692-239b-4f39...@googlegroups.com>,

(Hal Heydt)
Kept in a suitcase (with a few other things) next to the door so
it could be grabbed in an emergency. It's still there.

As I recall, the print run was only 1200 and nearly all the
copies went to libraries. Last we heard, copies in decent shape
had been sold for $1500, and that was quite a few years ago. No
telling what it's worth now. When I die, it'll probably go to an
SCA library, unless one of our kids (probably our daughter) wants
to hang onto it.

[Quadibloc]

On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 12:38:18 PM UTC-6, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:

> Did get some use out of that, though. Dorothy used the option
> money to buy a copy of The Plan of St. Gall at the
> pre-publication price.

A web search turned up the fact that The Plan of St. Gall is a
unique mediaeval manuscript; apparently, what she bought was
a printed facsimile, but the Wikipedia article I found makes no
mention of it.

However, a second attempt indicates that there was a print
facsimile publication, as a three-volume work by Walter Horn
and Ernest Born. Published by University of California Press
in 1979.

There is also a single-volume work providing an overview
with facsimiles of part of the plan which is available at a
more resonable price, entitled "The Plan of St. Gall in
Brief".

John Savard

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <85fd3652-2e96-4158...@googlegroups.com>,

(Hal Heydt)
What she bought is the three volume set. Each book
is--IIRC--about 12 x 15 inches and about 1.5 inches thick. It is
a major scholoary work about the original document (your first
reference). IIRC--again--the authors spent about 30 years on
studying the primary manuscript.

The "In Brief" version was, basically, a coffee table book with
all the pretty pictures and none of the text from the three
volume version.

[Michael Dworetsky]

On 29/06/2022 19:47, BCFD36 wrote:

> On 6/29/22 05:55, jdni...@panix.com wrote:
>> Seanan McGuire, others, report that Dorothy passed away.
>>
>> https://twitter.com/seananmcguire/status/1541996445238120448
>

> Truly sad news. For a person I never met face to face, I really liked
> her. The surprising thing is that it looked like she posted YESTERDAY in
> the other thread.
>
> She was one of the reasons I read this group.
>

Dorothy will be very much missed here. I always enjoyed her posts. I
gather that she succumbed to ALS? My "prize" PhD student died from it
at a comparatively young age, and I know how sad it can be to watch
someone keep their full mental abilities and awareness while gradually
losing control of their bodies.

No cures yet, and very limited treatment other than palliative and
mobility assistance, so if anyone feels inclined to remember Dorothy in
a concrete way, may I ask for donations to an ALS charity in her memory?

--
Mike Dworetsky

[Quadibloc]

On Saturday, July 2, 2022 at 12:33:04 AM UTC-6, Hal Heydt wrote:

> The "In Brief" version was, basically, a coffee table book with
> all the pretty pictures and none of the text from the three
> volume version.

I wasn't suggesting that she should have settled for that!

I was merely noting an alternative for people who were interested
in pursuing it themselves.

This piqued my interest enough to start searching for related
information online. The Wikipedia article has a small image of the
original; a larger one is available here:

https://www.e-codices.ch/en/list/one/csg/1092

I found that this document was of sufficient interest that a
modernized drawing of the plan was included in at least the 1911
edition of William R. Shepherd's Historical Atlas, and on page 311
of volume 8 of "A History of All Nations", an English translation of
"The Age of Charlemagne" by Hans Prutz. (Lea Brothers and
Company, 1905)

I encountered a statement to the effect that the plan was,
after its original discovery, first published in the second volume
of Annales Ordinis S. Benedictis Occidentalium Monachorum
Patriarchae, by Johannes Mabillon, but I have been unable to find
it there.

John Savard

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <BaydnR7jSbo_ml3_...@supernews.com>,

(Hal Heydt)
Yes, she died from ALS. I suspect that the onset of it was
actually two or three years ago, but between Chronic Fatigue
Syndrome and the way medical visits changed at the onset of
COVID-19 pandemic, no one figured that out.

And, yes, it is a devastating condition. A functioning mind held
captive in an increasingly disfunctional body. I wouldn't wish
it on my worst enemy.

There is one drug (which she was on for about the last 3 months)
that can slow the progress, but only a little. The problem is
that the drug can be exceedingly expensive even with insurance.
Fortunately, I was able to locate an affordable source for it.

[Alan]

For me, it's my brother's wife, niece and the music he never got to
share with the world.

> I have decided what I intend to say at the SCA general memorial
> next Beltane.
>
> Along the lines of a song she wrote about how many from the West
> Kingdom it takes to light a candle (None. Our candle has been
> burning brightly since [SCA] time began.), she lit so many
> candles for so many people, but since hers has gone out, I am
> left alone in the dark.

I don't know what to tell you.

I know something of what you must be feeling, but you had to be much
closer to Dorothy than I could be to my brother, Darcy, even with the
love for music we shared.

It's been a year and 22 days for me.

[The Horny Goat]

I know it all too well - my wife died at home in early March
completely "out of the blue" in her computer chair. My daughter (who
lives/lived with us is upset I haven't yet changed the layout of the
room she died in but that's mostly because I haven't gotten rid of the
junk in this room which would leave space for the gear that was
formerly my wife's computer area. There's a strong inertia you feel in
these things and you tend to feel you need more "me time" which is
fine but at some point you do have to make those changes. Hopefully
you're better at it than I've been...

[The Horny Goat]

On Fri, 1 Jul 2022 07:15:52 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
wrote:

What is the name of the song you refer to? I'm not SCA but my daughter
is and she's involved in a lot of 'bardic' (in her case mostly
calligraphy) stuff and may well have heard or it or actually knows it.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <87h2chldcedvs74oa...@4ax.com>,

(Hal Heydt)
"The Light of the West". Her book dates it as February XXVIII,
which would be ca. 1992. (Didn't work much on the date
conversion. SCA year 1 began on 1 May 1966.)

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <i0h2chtpjf32mo6id...@4ax.com>,

The Horny Goat <lcr...@home.ca> wrote:

(Hal Heydt)
I wouldn't care to count on it. Though there were friends of my
daughter and son-in-law over today and I gifted them with the
Earl Gray tea that Dorothy liked. Some tea bags and 4 8 oz. tins
of loose tea.

[The Horny Goat]

And the name of a 'Vulcan' ship.

[Jack Bohn]

She'd found out her name was used for a character in a Star Trek computer game:

https://memory-beta.fandom.com/wiki/Dorothy_Heydt

I'd encountered that game, though not her in it, and informed her that it was way on the side of "starship porn." I hope that amused her more than annoyed her.

--
-Jack

[Robert Carnegie]

...that's not porn on starships, it is "porn" about starships.
Hulls portrayed with intense appreciation (I'm assuming).
Explicit manuvers at high warp speeds. Mere human beings
are almost incidental to the activity.

[Jack Bohn]

There's a part of the legal definition that includes "no socially redeeming aspect." That's what comes to mind when Dorothy would mention coming to such passages and skipping forward a few pages to the results the characters had to deal with.

--
-Jack

[Joel Polowin]

On 2022-06-30 12:05 PM, Hal (via Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
> ALS is a *terible* "disease" (scare quotes because it is an
> autoimmunue condition). It is, functionally, untreatable and
> progrssive. A friend I was staying (to be closer to the hospital
> than our home) made the comparison that ALS and Alzheimers are
> opposites. Altzheimers destroys the mind leaving the body
> functional. ALS destroys the body leaving the mind functional.
> On the whole, she said she'd prefer Altzheimers, given that ALS
> leaves a live, aware, self in a non-functioning body. A horrible
> trap.

The effects of Altzheimer's are highly variable. Sometimes it's a
generalized "fading" of memory and cognition. Sometimes particular
cognitive areas are hit, as with Sir Terry's language skills.
And then there's frontal dementia, which knocks out self-control.

Sometimes this is relatively benign. My wife (a dementia specialist)
tells of an incident when she was meeting with a new patient and
his wife. When the patient approached her, sitting in her office,
the guy got a big grin and lunged at her across her desk, both arms
and hands outstretched, and shouted "Boobies!" His wife was mortified.

But sometimes... everything that's horrid and nasty about a person
is unleashed. One of my high-school teachers went this route, and
was living in a care facility for a couple of decades. It was months
after her passing, her family told us at a memorial gathering, that
they were regaining their memories of the intelligent, creative,
loving mother and wife that she had been. I dread the idea that
someday, there may be a monster living in my body, with my memories,
hurting the people who are closest to me.

Joel

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

[The Horny Goat]

On Sun, 3 Jul 2022 17:30:13 -0400, Joel Polowin
<jpol...@sympatico.ca> wrote:

>The effects of Altzheimer's are highly variable. Sometimes it's a
>generalized "fading" of memory and cognition. Sometimes particular
>cognitive areas are hit, as with Sir Terry's language skills.
>And then there's frontal dementia, which knocks out self-control.
>

George Orwell says in 1984 that every man has something non-fatal he
will instantly fold when confronted with it (it's during Smith's
torture by O'Brien) and for me it's Alzheimers.

Both my father and maternal grandfather had it before their respective
passings - my grandfather had the first kind, my father the latter.

I had sometimes wondered whether I would still recognize my wife when
the end came but unfortunately she fooled me by leaving us this past
March. Given longetivity in my family I have at least a 50-50 chance
of making it to 85 so a long time yet.

[Alan]

I had an uncle who was a bit of a pill if I'm honest.

But seeing Alzheimer's slowly overtake him was terrible.

[James Nicoll]

My uncle by marriage and his twin brother lost their dad to a massive
heart attack when their dad was comparatively young so they spent their
lives living as heathy as they could. Both were extremely fit athletes,
which is how we now know that their family had a tendency for dementia,
provided they lived long enough. Which both of them did.
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

[Titus G]

So the pill didn't work.

[Alan]

Not for Michael, no.

The hardest part was in the middle, when he could still be lucid for
periods...

...and knew he was slowly losing that.

[Mike Van Pelt]

jdni...@panix.com writes:

> Seanan McGuire, others, report that Dorothy passed away.
>
> https://twitter.com/seananmcguire/status/1541996445238120448

I'm very sorry to hear this. She was always one of the
bright spots here.

--
Mike Van Pelt | "I don't advise it unless you're nuts."
mvp at calweb.com | -- Ray Wilkinson, after riding out Hurricane
KE6BVH | Ike on Surfside Beach in Galveston

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <ta4bbl$2o03$1...@dont-email.me>,

Mike Van Pelt <m...@calweb.com> wrote:
>jdni...@panix.com writes:
>
>> Seanan McGuire, others, report that Dorothy passed away.
>>
>> https://twitter.com/seananmcguire/status/1541996445238120448
>
>I'm very sorry to hear this. She was always one of the
>bright spots here.

(Hal Heydt)
To quote from E. E. Smith, for me she was a blinding flash and a
deafening report. I have no words for how much I miss her.

[BCFD36]

My brothers and I lost my mother to Alzheimer's in March. Watching the
slow decline over several years was torture. And there is not a thing
you can do about it. We didn't try home care or caring for her at one of
homes. Her house was definitely not set up for home and none of our
houses was really good for it either. Besides, if you hire in-home help,
you have no idea of the quality of people you will get. Of course, with
a Assisted Living situation you have somewhat of the same problem but
not as bad. You can check on certifications and the history of the
facility.

She didn't turn nasty or anything like that. She just kind of faded
away. It really sucked.

--
Dave Scruggs
Captain, Boulder Creek Fire (Retired)
Sr. Software Engineer - Stellar Solutions (Definitely Retired)

[pete...@gmail.com]

Too many of us are, or are dealing with, slowly fading parents. My mother (91)
is in a care home with dementia, and has been for 3 years. Its actually easier now
that she barely recognizes us, than it was when she still had the lucidity to be
angry and ask to go home.

pt

[Lynn McGuire]

This is why I am going to see Elvis tomorrow with my 83 year old father.
And spend the weekend with them as I commonly do once every 6 to 8
weeks. They live about 110 miles away from me. I figure some day I
will not get that opportunity.

Lynn

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <97384cb9-9f5e-4421...@googlegroups.com>,

(Hal Heydt)
My mother died at 92 in 2005. The day before she died, she was
teaching puppetry to other patients in the convalescent facility.
Puppetry had been a passion of hers for something over 50 years.

[Chris Buckley]

Yes, my mom has been in assisted living with Alzheimer's for over a
year; I'm still getting 2-3 calls a week at supper time from her
asking when one of us will be picking her up and taking her home.

At least we were able to find a nice small facility (really home) for
her. I was amazed to find out how many "up to 5 residents" facilities
there were around (almost a hundred in our county). So much nicer and
more personal than the larger institutions I had envisioned and only a
couple of miles away so I can visit every day. I visit at lunch and
she has forgotten that by supper time, but she at least knows she sees
me often! We'll see how long that lasts and I keep praying for no
medical issues that would require the larger institution.

Chris

[Andrew McDowell]

That generation of my relatives is going, some well and some badly. Two relatives were depressed enough or in enough pain that they basically just crawled into bed and waited to die. My Father had the cancer that killed him missed by the NHS because he also had a hernia he was too frail for them to operate on - they put his pain down to the hernia and did not spot the cancer until all they could do was keep him pain-free with morphia until he died. My Mother's great fear was dementia. She got what is probably vascular dementia, which robbed her of the ability to read and caused her to have great trouble picking the right words when speaking: she is currently in hospital with an infection which may or may not finally kill her.

[The Horny Goat]

On Thu, 7 Jul 2022 23:14:57 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
wrote:

>(Hal Heydt)
>My mother died at 92 in 2005. The day before she died, she was
>teaching puppetry to other patients in the convalescent facility.
>Puppetry had been a passion of hers for something over 50 years.

My mother also died in 2005 in her case at 71. She was run over by a
runaway RV. The runaway RV was driven by my father who hit the gas
when he intended to hit the brake. On his birthday no less.

This was about 2000 miles from home at a trade show buying trip for
our family business which they led. I got the 'privilege' of talking
to 3 different news reporters that week. It was not immediately clear
whether his Alzheimers had started before or after her death.

As I've said several times said 'I have lost loved ones fast, I have
lost them slow - they're horrible either way' My mother and my wife
both went in a flash. My father and maternal grandfather both went
slowly though my grandfather didn't hurt anyone on the way out.

We all have our crosses to bear - some are heavier than others.

[J. Clarke]

On Fri, 08 Jul 2022 00:09:47 -0700, The Horny Goat <lcr...@home.ca>
wrote:

Mine went in 1997. Pancreatic cancer, which as cancers go is fairly
quick. I really wish that the damned doctor had been honest about the
prognosis--he advised chemo, which almost never works with pancreatic
cancer, and it destroyed what little time she had left. I still
occasionally reach for the phone to tell her something that I think
she might find interesting.

She died on Mother's Day of all days.

[The Horny Goat]

On Sun, 10 Jul 2022 16:24:12 -0400, J. Clarke
<jclarke...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Mine went in 1997. Pancreatic cancer, which as cancers go is fairly
>quick. I really wish that the damned doctor had been honest about the
>prognosis--he advised chemo, which almost never works with pancreatic
>cancer, and it destroyed what little time she had left. I still
>occasionally reach for the phone to tell her something that I think
>she might find interesting.
>
>She died on Mother's Day of all days.

That's horrible even though there's nothing I'd consider a GOOD day.

My mother left us on my father's birthday, we buried my wife on St
Patrick's day - against neither is a "good" day even if one
acknowledges there could ever BE a good day...

[Joe Pfeiffer]

My dad phoned me at 3AM on my 41st birthday to let me know my mom had
just passed.

Never get upset by a wrong number in the middle of the night. A right
number at that hour is far worse.

[The Horny Goat]

On Mon, 11 Jul 2022 08:32:10 -0600, Joe Pfeiffer
<pfei...@cs.nmsu.edu> wrote:

>> That's horrible even though there's nothing I'd consider a GOOD day.
>>
>> My mother left us on my father's birthday, we buried my wife on St
>> Patrick's day - against neither is a "good" day even if one
>> acknowledges there could ever BE a good day...
>
>My dad phoned me at 3AM on my 41st birthday to let me know my mom had
>just passed.
>
>Never get upset by a wrong number in the middle of the night. A right
>number at that hour is far worse.

When I say 'left us' that's the sense I meant it in.

As for phone calls about the only GOOD 5 am phone call I've ever had
was the one from business school saying I'd be admitted. Unfortunately
the secretary was calling alphabetically down the acceptee list and my
surname starts with a C and she was in EST while I was in PST..... I
know I sounded hungover and just said "Uh you do know what time it is
here in Vancouver right?" to which she apologized and I thanked her.

But no question I've had lots of telemarketers call me at lousy times
and they have woken me at least twice.

Could be worse - our family got the dreaded call about my grandfather
right in the middle of Thanksgiving dinner....needless to say nobody
felt like dessert!

[The Horny Goat]

On Mon, 11 Jul 2022 08:32:10 -0600, Joe Pfeiffer
<pfei...@cs.nmsu.edu> wrote:

>My dad phoned me at 3AM on my 41st birthday to let me know my mom had
>just passed.
>
>Never get upset by a wrong number in the middle of the night. A right
>number at that hour is far worse.

Actually I woke my parents (I was then in EST them in PST) at 7 am
their time to announce the birth of our first daughter (their first
grandchild)

We were in the midst of moving from east to west ASAP after she was
born and had bought a house out west and Mom somehow thought I was
calling about our fire insurance (which was a mortgage requirement).

I well remember the conversation:
Dad: uh honey I don't think he's calling about fire insurance!
Me: Thanks dad (no stop for breath) it is my pleasant duty to announce
that at 6:45 eastern time, Mary Elizabeth Craver was born 7 lbs 2 oz,
Mom and baby are just fine....
Mom: oh my! oh my! oh my!

Which really makes me wonder since she was less than a week premature
and they had to be expecting this call quite soon. (Kid in question
celebrated her 35th birthday last week)

So not everythiing in the night is bad...