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Any Spanish speakers here?
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leno...@yahoo.com
Feb 19, 2019, 10:39:27 AM2/19/19
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I was wondering if you could do me a favor...
I found out in January that, in 2016, George MacDonald's classic "At the Back of the North Wind" was translated into Spanish. (Other books of his had been translated into Spanish, years earlier.) I'd very much like to spread the news to the largest audience possible. Trouble is, aside from the fact that my Spanish is not what it was (I have to rely on the free online translation services), I really don't do most social media, and given all the alarming stories last year about Facebook, I'm very glad of it.
So I wanted to ask if someone here who IS on the Spanish version of Facebook - or any other popular Spanish media that discuss fantasy and SF - would possibly post the following thread there, which started in 2007:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!search/escocia/es.rec.ficcion.misc/5yrWCRTp9Rc/GPZSgS86EwAJ
Thanks in advance!
Only trouble - I did mention it - is that the Spanish reviews tend to spoil the ending. (Not every adult is going to guess it early on when reading the book, after all.)
Lenona.
I found out in January that, in 2016, George MacDonald's classic "At the Back of the North Wind" was translated into Spanish. (Other books of his had been translated into Spanish, years earlier.) I'd very much like to spread the news to the largest audience possible. Trouble is, aside from the fact that my Spanish is not what it was (I have to rely on the free online translation services), I really don't do most social media, and given all the alarming stories last year about Facebook, I'm very glad of it.
So I wanted to ask if someone here who IS on the Spanish version of Facebook - or any other popular Spanish media that discuss fantasy and SF - would possibly post the following thread there, which started in 2007:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!search/escocia/es.rec.ficcion.misc/5yrWCRTp9Rc/GPZSgS86EwAJ
Thanks in advance!
Only trouble - I did mention it - is that the Spanish reviews tend to spoil the ending. (Not every adult is going to guess it early on when reading the book, after all.)
Lenona.
Quadibloc
Feb 25, 2019, 12:58:14 PM2/25/19
to
On Tuesday, February 19, 2019 at 8:39:27 AM UTC-7, leno...@yahoo.com wrote:
> I found out in January that, in 2016, George MacDonald's classic "At the Back of the North Wind" was translated into Spanish.
I remember hearing about that book.
> I found out in January that, in 2016, George MacDonald's classic "At the Back of the North Wind" was translated into Spanish.
A book for children, containing the perverted and morally inverse notion that
any entity possessing reason, will, and intent would not be bound by the law of
Right and Wrong to refrain from actions that injure innocent humans.
It certainly is true that natural forces are not blameworthy when they cause
harm to humans, but that is because they have no minds to be criminally
responsible with.
Of course, it is not generally considered reprehensible, because the obvious
purpose is to indoctrinate children so they won't recognize that the "Problem of
Evil" leads to a disproof of the existence of God.
John Savard
David Johnston
Feb 25, 2019, 2:33:44 PM2/25/19
to
death in the hope that doing them would ultimately lead to a better world.
leno...@yahoo.com
Mar 9, 2019, 12:58:15 PM3/9/19
to
Or, one COULD argue that the moral of the book is one of the following -
SPOILERS
1. That death is really only hard on the surviving loved ones, especially if it means the end of one's suffering
2. That since death among the young was so common anyway, at that time, that it should be accepted without fear (even doctors had almost no grasp of the germ theory in 1868, when MacDonald started telling the story)
3. That, just as MacDonald said, "a pit without sides to it is not a pit at all," so too, joys without sorrows are not joys. Otherwise, we'd have no sense of perspective. Or, as Wikipedia put it, "Though the North Wind does good deeds and helps people, she also does seemingly terrible things. On one of her assignments, she must sink a ship. Yet everything she does that seems bad leads to something good."
(I admit, the "reason" behind the sinking of the ship is pretty outrageous. But since we only really care about Diamond and his family anyway, the fact that most of the family benefits in the end - aside from the ending itself - is all that really matters, in a way.)
By the way, I strongly suspect, at least, that MacDonald set up the last four chapters in such a way that adult readers would likely guess what was going to happen - but also in such a way that very young listeners would be deliberately misled!
Here's what I said on that:
http://forums.abebooks.com/discussions/AbeBookscom_Community_Forum/_/At_the_Back_of_the_North_Wind__question/abecom/33237.1?dbg=6&nav=messages
It's in two parts, but the second part is mostly irrelevant chatter.
I started it with:
SPOILERS
When you read it as a child, did you misinterpret the last scene? I did, at age 8 or 9.
However, when you read the book as an adult, you'll likely suspect that George MacDonald WANTED child readers to misinterpret that scene!
http://www.ccel.org/m/macdonald/northwind/nwchap38.html
(chapter 38 - do not read unless you've read the whole book)
After all, in chapter 12, Diamond's own mother thought he was dead, and he wasn't - and since this time the discoverer is Mrs. Raymond, a non-relative, why would he be dead this time? (This, of course, raises the question of why, in chapter 35, MacDonald moved Diamond away from his parents and into the Raymonds' house...what reason could MacDonald have, other than a set-up?)
Not to mention the distinctive use of the words "think" and "thought" in the last scene.
Why would MacDonald mislead his young readers? I assume he didn't want to traumatize them...
(snip)
And here's my last post in the thread:
It also occurred to me that whether or not all the factors I listed early on would be enough to confuse the average Victorian child (and thus save the full trauma for when he/she was older), there's maybe another way to think of the ending: It doesn't matter whether Diamond is in a coma for the second time OR if he's dead; either way, his loved ones will join him eventually, so they should be happy in that knowledge, according to MacDonald. (Trouble is, that reminds me of "The God Delusion" - here's an excerpt: "Polls suggest that approximately 95 of the population of the United States believe they will survive their own death. I can’t help but wondering how many people who claim such belief really, in their heart of hearts, hold it…When a devout woman is told by the doctors that she has only months to live, why doesn’t she beam with excited anticipation?…Why don’t faithful visitors at her bedside shower her with messages for those that have gone before? ‘Do give my love to Uncle Robert when you see him…’ Could it be that they don’t really believe all that stuff they pretend to believe? Or perhaps they do believe it but fear the process of dying?")
Lenona.
SPOILERS
1. That death is really only hard on the surviving loved ones, especially if it means the end of one's suffering
2. That since death among the young was so common anyway, at that time, that it should be accepted without fear (even doctors had almost no grasp of the germ theory in 1868, when MacDonald started telling the story)
3. That, just as MacDonald said, "a pit without sides to it is not a pit at all," so too, joys without sorrows are not joys. Otherwise, we'd have no sense of perspective. Or, as Wikipedia put it, "Though the North Wind does good deeds and helps people, she also does seemingly terrible things. On one of her assignments, she must sink a ship. Yet everything she does that seems bad leads to something good."
(I admit, the "reason" behind the sinking of the ship is pretty outrageous. But since we only really care about Diamond and his family anyway, the fact that most of the family benefits in the end - aside from the ending itself - is all that really matters, in a way.)
By the way, I strongly suspect, at least, that MacDonald set up the last four chapters in such a way that adult readers would likely guess what was going to happen - but also in such a way that very young listeners would be deliberately misled!
Here's what I said on that:
http://forums.abebooks.com/discussions/AbeBookscom_Community_Forum/_/At_the_Back_of_the_North_Wind__question/abecom/33237.1?dbg=6&nav=messages
It's in two parts, but the second part is mostly irrelevant chatter.
I started it with:
SPOILERS
When you read it as a child, did you misinterpret the last scene? I did, at age 8 or 9.
However, when you read the book as an adult, you'll likely suspect that George MacDonald WANTED child readers to misinterpret that scene!
http://www.ccel.org/m/macdonald/northwind/nwchap38.html
(chapter 38 - do not read unless you've read the whole book)
After all, in chapter 12, Diamond's own mother thought he was dead, and he wasn't - and since this time the discoverer is Mrs. Raymond, a non-relative, why would he be dead this time? (This, of course, raises the question of why, in chapter 35, MacDonald moved Diamond away from his parents and into the Raymonds' house...what reason could MacDonald have, other than a set-up?)
Not to mention the distinctive use of the words "think" and "thought" in the last scene.
Why would MacDonald mislead his young readers? I assume he didn't want to traumatize them...
(snip)
And here's my last post in the thread:
It also occurred to me that whether or not all the factors I listed early on would be enough to confuse the average Victorian child (and thus save the full trauma for when he/she was older), there's maybe another way to think of the ending: It doesn't matter whether Diamond is in a coma for the second time OR if he's dead; either way, his loved ones will join him eventually, so they should be happy in that knowledge, according to MacDonald. (Trouble is, that reminds me of "The God Delusion" - here's an excerpt: "Polls suggest that approximately 95 of the population of the United States believe they will survive their own death. I can’t help but wondering how many people who claim such belief really, in their heart of hearts, hold it…When a devout woman is told by the doctors that she has only months to live, why doesn’t she beam with excited anticipation?…Why don’t faithful visitors at her bedside shower her with messages for those that have gone before? ‘Do give my love to Uncle Robert when you see him…’ Could it be that they don’t really believe all that stuff they pretend to believe? Or perhaps they do believe it but fear the process of dying?")
Lenona.
leno...@yahoo.com
Mar 9, 2019, 2:51:14 PM3/9/19
to
In the meantime, COULD anyone do me the favor I asked for?
David Johnston
Mar 9, 2019, 3:15:14 PM3/9/19
to
On 2019-03-09 12:51 p.m., leno...@yahoo.com wrote:
> In the meantime, COULD anyone do me the favor I asked for?
>
Probably no. There aren't that many of us left here and none of us seem
> In the meantime, COULD anyone do me the favor I asked for?
>
likely to have Spanish as their native language.
leno...@yahoo.com
Mar 9, 2019, 3:24:00 PM3/9/19
to
On Saturday, March 9, 2019 at 3:15:14 PM UTC-5, David Johnston wrote:
Anyone here could also ask a Spanish-speaking friend to do it, too. (MY friends have mostly scattered to different parts of the U.S. over the years, and I don't know which ones are SF enthusiasts.)
Lenona.
> On 2019-03-09 12:51 p.m., lenona wrote:
> > In the meantime, COULD anyone do me the favor I asked for?
> >
>
> Probably no. There aren't that many of us left here and none of us seem
> likely to have Spanish as their native language.
Yes, well, when I said "Spanish speakers," I didn't mean ONLY those who learned Spanish first. Those who speak it fluently would do just as well.
> > In the meantime, COULD anyone do me the favor I asked for?
> >
>
> Probably no. There aren't that many of us left here and none of us seem
> likely to have Spanish as their native language.
Anyone here could also ask a Spanish-speaking friend to do it, too. (MY friends have mostly scattered to different parts of the U.S. over the years, and I don't know which ones are SF enthusiasts.)
Lenona.
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