YASID: Easy armageddon
Daniel Boese
discovered that, with the use of some simple RadioShack-level
electronics, the very laws of physics can be adjusted, endangering most
of humanity. Any recollection?
This could also be a good thread for discussing the general idea of the
impact individuals gaining significant destructive power, from the
Great Gazoo's button that would destroy the universe to merely turning
all life on Earth into a protoplasmic mass. I know that the specifics
of the gray goo concept have gone out of fashion, but are there any
decent references on the social impact of gray-goo-like technology?
Butch Malahide
Daniel Boese wrote:
> I recall some discussion here once about a story in which it's
> discovered that, with the use of some simple RadioShack-level
> electronics, the very laws of physics can be adjusted, endangering most
> of humanity. Any recollection?
Sounds like "The New Reality". Not sure you could get everything you
need at RadioShack. Been a while since I read it.
rja.ca...@excite.com
In SF? Well, there's _The Diamond Age_, which, with faults, imagines a
world with nanotechnology machines aplenty, including self-replicators
which are a bit of a problem, but only require appropriate defensive
nanotechnology machines that seek out the offensive machines and
neutralise them. However, since this occurred in a setting intended to
resemble Victorian England, it may have been intended by the author
merely to simulate the urban atmospheric pollution of that place and
time, since the debris of the nanomachines basically resembled soot.
GSV Three Minds in a Can
the wonderful person Daniel Boese <datap...@gmail.com> said
>I recall some discussion here once about a story in which it's
>discovered that, with the use of some simple RadioShack-level
>electronics, the very laws of physics can be adjusted, endangering most
>of humanity. Any recollection?
Sounds like Charles Harness' short story 'The New Reality' collected in,
iirc, _The Rose_. That's the one where they confuse a photon by making
it stop and think which way to go (they hadn't figured out at the time
that it can go both ways I guess), and as a result 'underlying chaos' is
exposed, for manipulation by those who can .. sound about right?
--
GSV Three Minds in a Can
Contact recommends the use of Firefox; SC recommends it at gunpoint.
Lee K. Gleason
"Daniel Boese" <datap...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1135538496.1...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> I recall some discussion here once about a story in which it's
> discovered that, with the use of some simple RadioShack-level
> electronics, the very laws of physics can be adjusted, endangering most
> of humanity. Any recollection?
>
discovered that, with simple electronics gear, one can shift the universe
into an altered state where nuclear weapons won't work? It was published in
Analog in the late 60s/early 70s.
--
Lee K. Gleason N5ZMR
Control-G Consultants
lgle...@houston.rr.com
Andrew Plotkin
>
> "Daniel Boese" <datap...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1135538496.1...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> > I recall some discussion here once about a story in which it's
> > discovered that, with the use of some simple RadioShack-level
> > electronics, the very laws of physics can be adjusted, endangering most
> > of humanity. Any recollection?
> >
> Don't recall that one...anyone recall a similar story, where it is
> discovered that, with simple electronics gear, one can shift the universe
> into an altered state where nuclear weapons won't work? It was published in
> Analog in the late 60s/early 70s.
I don't remember that one. I *do* remember one with the same premise,
except replace "nuclear weapons" => "broadcast telepathy transmitter".
Since broadcast telepathy is the technology you want anyone else to
have *even less* than nukes (unblockable propaganda... spam...)
someone puts together a transmitter, transmits the plans for the
telepathy-blocker, and that's the end of that technology.
--Z
"And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the borogoves..."
*
I'm still thinking about what to put in this space.
Sean Eric Fagan
Andrew Plotkin <erky...@eblong.com> wrote:
>> Don't recall that one...anyone recall a similar story, where it is
>> discovered that, with simple electronics gear, one can shift the universe
>> into an altered state where nuclear weapons won't work? It was published in
>> Analog in the late 60s/early 70s.
>I don't remember that one. I *do* remember one with the same premise,
>except replace "nuclear weapons" => "broadcast telepathy transmitter".
There were both. One was a short story, about the construction of a
broadcast, telepathic transmitter -- it ended with one of the protagonists
doing a world-wide broadcast, which began, "This is a telepathic message.
This is how you construct a device to block future transmissions..."
The other one may have been a Probability Zero piece, as it was very short:
the protagonists had a device which -- they theorized, since it couldn't be
practically tested -- would instantly destroy a timeline in which a nuke went
off; due to the nature of the myriad ways, if you were alive, it meant one did
*not* go off. And ended with one of them thinking maybe someone had already
deployed such a device, and that explained how the Cuban Missile Crisis ended
the way it did.
Both were, I believe, in Analog; the telepathic one was probably later. Both
would have been some time after 1981, I think.
Andrew Plotkin
>
> The other one may have been a Probability Zero piece, as it was very short:
> the protagonists had a device which -- they theorized, since it couldn't be
> practically tested -- would instantly destroy a timeline in which a nuke went
> off; due to the nature of the myriad ways, if you were alive, it meant one did
> *not* go off. And ended with one of them thinking maybe someone had already
> deployed such a device, and that explained how the Cuban Missile Crisis ended
> the way it did.
That does sound familiar, but I think the device per se was simply a
timeline-destroyer. (Punctured a lower vacuum state or some such
thing.) Yes -- now that I think about it, that story started with the
inventors wondering why the device had failed in every test thus far.
Either a transformer failed, or somebody misadjusted the doohitchet,
or a mosquito shorted out a connection, or...
*Then* they realized what the device did. And then someone got the
idea of hooking it up to an outdoor fallout detector. Ending as you
describe.
Charlie Stross
as <datap...@gmail.com> declared:
> I recall some discussion here once about a story in which it's
> discovered that, with the use of some simple RadioShack-level
> electronics, the very laws of physics can be adjusted, endangering most
> of humanity. Any recollection?
The "Anomalous physics" at the core of "The Space Eater" by Dave
Langford worked a lot like that. (McGuffin: teleportation portals.
Outcome #1: it allows colonization of a new terrestrial planet. Outcome
#2: 90% of the main sequence stars in the observable universe depart
from the main sequence with extreme prejudice. Oh, and there's the
outcomes #3 .. #n that make the rest of the book so much fun ...)
-- Charlie
Howard Brazee
<lgle...@houston.rr.com> wrote:
> Don't recall that one...anyone recall a similar story, where it is
>discovered that, with simple electronics gear, one can shift the universe
>into an altered state where nuclear weapons won't work? It was published in
>Analog in the late 60s/early 70s.
I remember a case where a supercomputer did this - but we don't know
that piece of background until we get near the end of an excellent
large fantasy novel. (The same universe has a couple of series that
take place long after. The first series was good - not to the level
of the original novel, but not good enough that I bought the second
series).
Name of the novel is below (because this thread is a bit of a
spoiler).
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_Empire of the East_ by Fred Saberhagen
pacm...@hotmail.com
> --Z
I remember this one too. IIRC, it was a new high energy particle
accelerator that punctured a lower vacuum state as an unintended
consequence. It was not a Probability Zero piece and was most likely
from the 1980's (that's the time period when I subscribed to Analog).
--
Paul Carter
David Goldfarb
Andrew Plotkin <erky...@eblong.com> wrote:
>Here, Sean Eric Fagan <s...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>>
>> The other one may have been a Probability Zero piece, as it was very short:
>> the protagonists had a device which -- they theorized, since it couldn't be
>> practically tested -- would instantly destroy a timeline in which a nuke went
>> off; due to the nature of the myriad ways, if you were alive, it meant one did
>> *not* go off. And ended with one of them thinking maybe someone had already
>> deployed such a device, and that explained how the Cuban Missile Crisis ended
>> the way it did.
>
>That does sound familiar, but I think the device per se was simply a
>timeline-destroyer. (Punctured a lower vacuum state or some such
>thing.) Yes -- now that I think about it, that story started with the
>inventors wondering why the device had failed in every test thus far.
>Either a transformer failed, or somebody misadjusted the doohitchet,
>or a mosquito shorted out a connection, or...
>
>*Then* they realized what the device did. And then someone got the
>idea of hooking it up to an outdoor fallout detector. Ending as you
>describe.
I remember that one. I remember thinking that the device as described
was worse than useless: it didn't *create* timelines in which the world
survived nuclear war, it just made sure that in the timelines in which
we destroyed ourselves, we destroyed the rest of the universe too. Sort
of the ultimate in spite.
--
David Goldfarb |"Given enough time and the right audience,
gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu | the darkest of secrets scum over into
gold...@csua.berkeley.edu | mere curiosities."
| -- Neil Gaiman, _Sandman_ #53
Hobnob
> Don't recall that one...anyone recall a similar story, where it is
> discovered that, with simple electronics gear, one can shift the universe
> into an altered state where nuclear weapons won't work? It was published in
> Analog in the late 60s/early 70s.
There's Bob Shaw's "Ground Zero Man", who discovers that it's
relatively easy to shift the universe into a state where the critical
mass for a nuclear warhead is smaller than before (and thus
sub-critical lumps of plutonium in them will explode when he switches
his gizmo on).
rja.ca...@excite.com
David Goldfarb wrote:
> In article <doo2q2$biu$1...@reader1.panix.com>,
> Andrew Plotkin <erky...@eblong.com> wrote:
> >Here, Sean Eric Fagan <s...@kithrup.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> The other one may have been a Probability Zero piece, as it was very short:
> >> the protagonists had a device which -- they theorized, since it couldn't be
> >> practically tested -- would instantly destroy a timeline in which a nuke went
> >> off; due to the nature of the myriad ways, if you were alive, it meant one did
> >> *not* go off. And ended with one of them thinking maybe someone had already
> >> deployed such a device, and that explained how the Cuban Missile Crisis ended
> >> the way it did.
> >
> >That does sound familiar, but I think the device per se was simply a
> >timeline-destroyer. (Punctured a lower vacuum state or some such
> >thing.) Yes -- now that I think about it, that story started with the
> >inventors wondering why the device had failed in every test thus far.
> >Either a transformer failed, or somebody misadjusted the doohitchet,
> >or a mosquito shorted out a connection, or...
> >
> >*Then* they realized what the device did. And then someone got the
> >idea of hooking it up to an outdoor fallout detector. Ending as you
> >describe.
Except that a transformer fails, or somebody misadjusted the
doohitchet, ...
> I remember that one. I remember thinking that the device as described
> was worse than useless: it didn't *create* timelines in which the world
> survived nuclear war, it just made sure that in the timelines in which
> we destroyed ourselves, we destroyed the rest of the universe too. Sort
> of the ultimate in spite.
That depends on how you interpret multiple timelines. For instance, in
the quantum theory version of many worlds, if you steer collapse of the
waveform into universes without nuclear war on Earth, are you doing
harm elsewhere? Or if there are infinite universes, what does zapping a
few of them matter?
However, your interpretation may be legitimate too.
Bill Westfield
Buckyballs apparently have an affinity to attach to DNA, interferring
with its reproductive capabilities:
http://www.eet.com/news/latest/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=175002350
BillW
Ross Presser
> That's the one where they confuse a photon by making
> it stop and think which way to go (they hadn't figured out at the time
> that it can go both ways I guess) ...
'The New Reality" was published in _Thrilling Wonder Stories_, December
1950. By 1950, not only was wave mechanics pretty fully realized
(Schroedinger equation, 1925) but we'd developed several kinds of nuclear
weapons based on the principles.
I suspect that the lack of understanding at the time of the story was
confined to Mr. Harness (and perhaps his readers).
Kai Henningsen
> Here, Sean Eric Fagan <s...@kithrup.com> wrote:
> >
> > The other one may have been a Probability Zero piece, as it was very
> > short: the protagonists had a device which -- they theorized, since it
> > couldn't be practically tested -- would instantly destroy a timeline in
> > which a nuke went off; due to the nature of the myriad ways, if you were
> > alive, it meant one did *not* go off. And ended with one of them thinking
> > maybe someone had already deployed such a device, and that explained how
> > the Cuban Missile Crisis ended the way it did.
>
> That does sound familiar, but I think the device per se was simply a
> timeline-destroyer. (Punctured a lower vacuum state or some such
> thing.) Yes -- now that I think about it, that story started with the
> inventors wondering why the device had failed in every test thus far.
> Either a transformer failed, or somebody misadjusted the doohitchet,
> or a mosquito shorted out a connection, or...
>
> *Then* they realized what the device did. And then someone got the
> idea of hooking it up to an outdoor fallout detector. Ending as you
> describe.
Ah. A similar idea appears at one point in _Thrice_upon_a_time_ (I think
the original title was, I only read the German translation; their theory
of time differs somewhat), where the protagonists wonder why they never
tested their time-radio for paradoxes. Then they carefully design an
experiment based on the obvious "chose the other option from what gets
transmitted", but with a counter to stop the experiment after N
iterations. Which works as one would expect. And they conclude that what
happened is, whenever they came up with the idea without a limiter, the
universe oscillated until some fluctuation on the quantum level made them
not have the idea, up until they came up with the idea of the limiter ...
The universe makes sure there will not be a paradox. It's very patient. It
takes as many tries as are necessary.
Kai
--
http://www.westfalen.de/private/khms/
"... by God I *KNOW* what this network is for, and you can't have it."
- Russ Allbery (r...@stanford.edu)
John M. Gamble
>news:1135538496.1...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>> I recall some discussion here once about a story in which it's
>> discovered that, with the use of some simple RadioShack-level
>> electronics, the very laws of physics can be adjusted, endangering most
>> of humanity. Any recollection?
>>
> Don't recall that one...anyone recall a similar story, where it is
>discovered that, with simple electronics gear, one can shift the universe
>into an altered state where nuclear weapons won't work? It was published in
>Analog in the late 60s/early 70s.
>
A P. J. Plauger story. I think the title was "Wet Blanket".
--
-john
February 28 1997: Last day libraries could order catalogue cards
from the Library of Congress.
Alexey Romanov
And what would you expect?
Dan Goodman
> Lee K. Gleason <lgle...@houston.rr.com> wrote:
> >
> >"Daniel Boese" <datap...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >> I recall some discussion here once about a story in which it's
> >> discovered that, with the use of some simple RadioShack-level
> >> electronics, the very laws of physics can be adjusted, endangering
> most >> of humanity. Any recollection?
> > >
> > Don't recall that one...anyone recall a similar story, where it is
> > discovered that, with simple electronics gear, one can shift the
> > universe into an altered state where nuclear weapons won't work? It
> > was published in Analog in the late 60s/early 70s.
>
> A P. J. Plauger story. I think the title was "Wet Blanket".
There was a story by him with that title, published in Analog in 1974
-- according to http://isfdb.org.
--
Dan Goodman
Journal http://www.livejournal.com/users/dsgood/
Clutterers Anonymous unofficial community
http://www.livejournal.com/community/clutterers_anon/
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All political parties die at last of swallowing their own lies.
John Arbuthnot (1667-1735), Scottish writer, physician.