Re: mythology

[Brian M. Scott]

On Fri, 10 Feb 2012 04:56:41 +0000 (UTC), Garrett Wollman
<wol...@bimajority.org> wrote in
<news:jh2829$si9$1...@grapevine.csail.mit.edu> in
rec.arts.sf.written:

[...]

> And the way you find out what "chili" is, is to see what
> English speakers who use that word, *today*, point to as
> its referent. Neither abstract reasoning nor historical
> research has any bearing on this question. What you find
> is a wide variety of notions, with a very small
> intersection. (You can't even say that it's a stew,
> although it usually is, because the chili that makes a
> chili dog a chili dog is, for many people, fried rather
> than stewed meat, closer to "beef taco filling" than to
> meat-stew-with-or-without-beans.)

And the version with which I grew up was more of a soup than
anything else.

[...]

Brian

[David Dyer-Bennet]

That's how it shows up in restaurant menus mostly.

But then, soups and stews are not very different; it'd be hard to define
a precise difference between them that would be widely accepted.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, dd...@dd-b.net; http://dd-b.net/
Snapshots: http://dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/data/
Photos: http://dd-b.net/photography/gallery/
Dragaera: http://dragaera.info

[Michael Stemper]

In article <ylfkipje...@dd-b.net>, David Dyer-Bennet <dd...@dd-b.net> writes:
>"Brian M. Scott" <b.s...@csuohio.edu> writes:

>> And the version with which I grew up was more of a soup than
>> anything else.
>
>That's how it shows up in restaurant menus mostly.
>
>But then, soups and stews are not very different; it'd be hard to define
>a precise difference between them that would be widely accepted.

Certainly no more difficult than defining the precise difference between
science fiction and fantasy.

--
Michael F. Stemper
#include <Standard_Disclaimer>
Time flies like an arrow.
Fruit flies like a banana.

[Kip Williams]

Michael Stemper wrote:
> In article<ylfkipje...@dd-b.net>, David Dyer-Bennet<dd...@dd-b.net> writes:
>> "Brian M. Scott"<b.s...@csuohio.edu> writes:
>
>>> And the version with which I grew up was more of a soup than
>>> anything else.
>>
>> That's how it shows up in restaurant menus mostly.
>>
>> But then, soups and stews are not very different; it'd be hard to define
>> a precise difference between them that would be widely accepted.
>
> Certainly no more difficult than defining the precise difference between
> science fiction and fantasy.

So, to backtrack a bit, chili is what we point to when we say "chili."

Wait, that's a little vague. Chili is what -I- point to when -I- say
"chili."


Kip W
rasfw

[Robert Bannister]

On 11/02/12 1:39 AM, Michael Stemper wrote:
> In article<ylfkipje...@dd-b.net>, David Dyer-Bennet<dd...@dd-b.net> writes:
>> "Brian M. Scott"<b.s...@csuohio.edu> writes:
>
>>> And the version with which I grew up was more of a soup than
>>> anything else.
>>
>> That's how it shows up in restaurant menus mostly.
>>
>> But then, soups and stews are not very different; it'd be hard to define
>> a precise difference between them that would be widely accepted.
>
> Certainly no more difficult than defining the precise difference between
> science fiction and fantasy.
>

Are you trying to stir up trouble?

My definition of the soup-stew divide is when it is no longer practical
to eat it with a fork. In other words, you can usually eat a stew with a
spoon, but you don't have to. With some soups, you might also start with
a fork, but you really have to drink up the remainder or spoon it up -
just wiping it up with bread or similar isn't enough, or if it is, then
it was stew.

--
Robert Bannister

[David Goldfarb]

In article <6mfZq.3931$xH4....@newsfe19.iad>,
Kip Williams <mrk...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Michael Stemper wrote:
>> Certainly no more difficult than defining the precise difference between
>> science fiction and fantasy.
>
>So, to backtrack a bit, chili is what we point to when we say "chili."
>
>Wait, that's a little vague. Chili is what -I- point to when -I- say
>"chili."

As you probably know, Damon Knight originally formulated his statement
in the plural, and from what I have heard he got rather angry when
anyone quoted him as using the singular.

--
David Goldfarb |"Never argue with a pedant over nomenclature.
goldf...@gmail.com | It wastes your time and annoys the pedant."
gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu | -- Lois McMaster Bujold

[Walter Bushell]

In article <6mfZq.3931$xH4....@newsfe19.iad>,
Kip Williams <mrk...@gmail.com> wrote:

No chili is what I mean by chili. Like always when I use a word it means
exactly what I want it to mean an neither more nor less.

--
It is the nature of the human species to reject what is true but unpleasant
and to embrace what is obviously false but comforting. -- H. L. Mencken

[Kip Williams]

David Goldfarb wrote:
> In article<6mfZq.3931$xH4....@newsfe19.iad>,
> Kip Williams<mrk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Michael Stemper wrote:
>>> Certainly no more difficult than defining the precise difference between
>>> science fiction and fantasy.
>>
>> So, to backtrack a bit, chili is what we point to when we say "chili."
>>
>> Wait, that's a little vague. Chili is what -I- point to when -I- say
>> "chili."
>
> As you probably know, Damon Knight originally formulated his statement
> in the plural, and from what I have heard he got rather angry when
> anyone quoted him as using the singular.

1) He wasn't talking about chili.
2) I was, and the plural isn't appropriate there. It gives the
impression somebody else might know as much as me.


Kip W

[Kip Williams]

Walter Bushell wrote:
> In article<6mfZq.3931$xH4....@newsfe19.iad>,
> Kip Williams<mrk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Michael Stemper wrote:
>>> In article<ylfkipje...@dd-b.net>, David Dyer-Bennet<dd...@dd-b.net>
>>> writes:
>>>> "Brian M. Scott"<b.s...@csuohio.edu> writes:
>>>
>>>>> And the version with which I grew up was more of a soup than
>>>>> anything else.
>>>>
>>>> That's how it shows up in restaurant menus mostly.
>>>>
>>>> But then, soups and stews are not very different; it'd be hard to define
>>>> a precise difference between them that would be widely accepted.
>>>
>>> Certainly no more difficult than defining the precise difference between
>>> science fiction and fantasy.
>>
>> So, to backtrack a bit, chili is what we point to when we say "chili."
>>
>> Wait, that's a little vague. Chili is what -I- point to when -I- say
>> "chili."
>

> No chili is what I mean by chili. Like always when I use a word it means
> exactly what I want it to mean an neither more nor less.

So when you say "chili" you mean "no chili."

That's bound to cause confusion.


Kip W
rasfw

[David DeLaney]

Kip Williams <mrk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Walter Bushell wrote:

>> Kip Williams<mrk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> So, to backtrack a bit, chili is what we point to when we say "chili."
>>>
>>> Wait, that's a little vague. Chili is what -I- point to when -I- say
>>> "chili."
>>
>> No chili is what I mean by chili. Like always when I use a word it means
>> exactly what I want it to mean an neither more nor less.
>
>So when you say "chili" you mean "no chili."
>
>That's bound to cause confusion.

Unless we have already removed the last particle of common sense from our
brains in a Fantastic-Voyage-like montage?

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from d...@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

[Kip Williams]

David DeLaney wrote:
> Kip Williams<mrk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Walter Bushell wrote:
>>> Kip Williams<mrk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> So, to backtrack a bit, chili is what we point to when we say "chili."
>>>>
>>>> Wait, that's a little vague. Chili is what -I- point to when -I- say
>>>> "chili."
>>>
>>> No chili is what I mean by chili. Like always when I use a word it means
>>> exactly what I want it to mean an neither more nor less.
>>
>> So when you say "chili" you mean "no chili."
>>
>> That's bound to cause confusion.
>
> Unless we have already removed the last particle of common sense from our
> brains in a Fantastic-Voyage-like montage?

February 10, 2012.

The Day Quibbling Stopped Being an Option.

Well, it was fun while it lasted.


Kip W
rasfw

[Joy Beeson]

On Fri, 10 Feb 2012 04:15:27 -0500, "Brian M. Scott"
<b.s...@csuohio.edu> wrote:

> And the version with which I grew up was more of a soup than
> anything else.

My mother never made "chili" -- she made "chili soup".

Her "spanish hamburger" somewhat resembled what some folks call chili
-- but chiles are optional in spanish hamburger. It was eaten on
bread, like sloppy joe.

Once I was left in charge of making supper, and intended to make
tamale pie. I put every seasoning we had into the filling, including
green onions and fresh-picked mustard greens. One of the times I came
back to the kitchen to stir the filling, I was surprised at how much
it had cooked down. A few minutes later, my father came in and said
"That was the best chili I ever et."

There was a sudden change in the supper menu.

Sigh. I can't make tamale pie any more because you can't buy real
tomato juice. But that doesn't matter, since nobody's diet allows a
dish made primarily of corn meal mush seasoned with suet. (Yellow-corn
grits are better than corn meal, and a coarse meal sometimes called
"Polenta" is, when available, better than grits.)

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://roughsewing.home.comcast.net/
The above message is a Usenet post.
I don't recall having given anyone permission to use it on a Web site.

[Kurt Busiek]

On 2012-02-11 05:00:16 +0000, Joy Beeson <jbe...@invalid.net.invalid> said:

> Sigh. I can't make tamale pie any more because you can't buy real
> tomato juice.

I can buy real tomato juice.

If nothing else, I can buy tomatoes, and I have a juicer.

Once the tomato plants start producing better than last year, I might
not even need to buy the tomatoes.

kdb
--
Visit http://www.busiek.com -- for all your Busiek needs!

[Wayne Throop]

:: And the version with which I grew up was more of a soup than anything else.

: My mother never made "chili" -- she made "chili soup".

The version we make is thinner than a stew and thicker than a soup.
Though technically, it isn't chili, since my wife doesn't like capsaicin,
so we substitute piperine.

[Carson Chittom]

Joy Beeson <jbe...@invalid.net.invalid> writes:

> Sigh. I can't make tamale pie any more because you can't buy real
> tomato juice. But that doesn't matter, since nobody's diet allows a
> dish made primarily of corn meal mush seasoned with suet. (Yellow-corn
> grits are better than corn meal, and a coarse meal sometimes called
> "Polenta" is, when available, better than grits.)

Forget the tomato juice; I'm concerned that I can't seem to buy suet
anywhere. I was going to make a pudding this past Christmas---as an
experiment, since I've never made one before---and couldn't find any
suet for love or money.

[Walter Bushell]

In article <54tbj7hcn42oa1lga...@4ax.com>,

Joy Beeson <jbe...@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:

> But that doesn't matter, since nobody's diet allows a
> dish made primarily of corn meal mush seasoned with suet.

Pretty much takes out both the high and low carb eaters, yes. Perhaps
for people doing heavy manual labor, that is what we used to call
"working for a living". If you're doing that you call people who sit a
desk most days and call it "working for a living" risible, if you know
the word.

[Taki Kogoma]

On 2012-02-11, David DeLaney <d...@gatekeeper.vic.com>
allegedly proclaimed to rec.arts.sf.written:

> Kip Williams <mrk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>Walter Bushell wrote:
>>> Kip Williams<mrk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> So, to backtrack a bit, chili is what we point to when we say "chili."
>>>>
>>>> Wait, that's a little vague. Chili is what -I- point to when -I- say
>>>> "chili."
>>>
>>> No chili is what I mean by chili. Like always when I use a word it means
>>> exactly what I want it to mean an neither more nor less.
>>
>>So when you say "chili" you mean "no chili."
>>
>>That's bound to cause confusion.
>
> Unless we have already removed the last particle of common sense from our
> brains in a Fantastic-Voyage-like montage?

But have you collected all the bits of fluff?

--
Capt. Gym Z. Quirk (Known to some as Taki Kogoma) quirk @ swcp.com
Just an article detector on the Information Supercollider.

[Howard Brazee]

On Sat, 11 Feb 2012 07:37:07 -0600, Carson Chittom <car...@wistly.net>
wrote:

>
>Forget the tomato juice; I'm concerned that I can't seem to buy suet
>anywhere. I was going to make a pudding this past Christmas---as an
>experiment, since I've never made one before---and couldn't find any
>suet for love or money.

Have you tried a stand-alone butcher shop? You may need to order it
in advance. Or maybe one of those shops that specializes in
preparing game for hunters.

--
"In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found,
than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace
to the legislature, and not to the executive department."

- James Madison

[Robert Bannister]

Last time I bought some I think it was labelled "dumpling mix", but
surely an independent butcher would have some.

--
Robert Bannister

[Joy Beeson]

On Fri, 10 Feb 2012 21:03:58 -0800, Kurt Busiek <ku...@busiek.com>
wrote:

> I can buy real tomato juice.

That thick puree isn't juice of any sort.

(Did you know that a tomato that falls out of a dump truck headed for
the "juice" factory, and drops straight from the top of the load to
the pavement -- *bounces*? They breed them to stand up to being
harvested by combine these days.)

[Kurt Busiek]

On 2012-02-12 01:47:24 +0000, Joy Beeson <jbe...@invalid.net.invalid> said:

> On Fri, 10 Feb 2012 21:03:58 -0800, Kurt Busiek <ku...@busiek.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I can buy real tomato juice.
>
> That thick puree isn't juice of any sort.

You don't read much of the posts you respond to, do you?

You just go until your knee jerks. That may be why you end up
threatening to hit people with your cane over ludicrous (and imagined)
slights.

[Carson Chittom]

Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net> writes:

> On Sat, 11 Feb 2012 07:37:07 -0600, Carson Chittom <car...@wistly.net>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>Forget the tomato juice; I'm concerned that I can't seem to buy suet
>>anywhere. I was going to make a pudding this past Christmas---as an
>>experiment, since I've never made one before---and couldn't find any
>>suet for love or money.
>
> Have you tried a stand-alone butcher shop? You may need to order it
> in advance.

As far as I can tell, the closest actual butcher shop---as opposed to
grocery stores with a meat section and stores which claim to be a
butcher shop but really just are caterers---is about a 160 mile drive.
I didn't care *that* much.

> Or maybe one of those shops that specializes in preparing game for
> hunters.

Now there's a thought I should have had. Wikipedia's article on suet
says that kosher-observant Jews can't eat suet, but that this
restriction does not extend to wild animals such as deer---which implies
that you can get suet worth eating from deer. This bears further inquiry.

[erilar]

In article <54tbj7hcn42oa1lga...@4ax.com>,
Joy Beeson <jbe...@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:

> a coarse meal sometimes called
> "Polenta" is, when available, better than grits.

health food store. Someone was looking for it in the local one and they
had it/

--
Erilar, biblioholic medievalist

[erilar]

In article <8762fd1...@jackson.wistly.net>,

Carson Chittom <car...@wistly.net> wrote:

> Forget the tomato juice; I'm concerned that I can't seem to buy suet
> anywhere. I was going to make a pudding this past Christmas---as an
> experiment, since I've never made one before---and couldn't find any
> suet for love or money.

No one feeds birds around there? No yards ? There's suet in the local
grocery stores around here; people put it out for birds.

--
Erilar, biblioholic medievalist

[Kip Williams]

erilar wrote:
> In article<54tbj7hcn42oa1lga...@4ax.com>,
> Joy Beeson<jbe...@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
>
>> a coarse meal sometimes called
>> "Polenta" is, when available, better than grits.
>
> health food store. Someone was looking for it in the local one and they
> had it/

Wegman's, here. In fact I had a polenta cake of some sort with tomato
sauce and some broccoli on it from the hot bar for lunch Friday. I was
thinking the polenta might be coarse like corn meal, but the way they
made it it was as smooth as the Platonic ideal grits I had at their
restaurant a while back.


Kip W
rasfw

[David DeLaney]

Taki Kogoma <qu...@tenma.swcp.com> wrote:
>David DeLaney <d...@gatekeeper.vic.com>

>> Kip Williams <mrk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>Walter Bushell wrote:
>>>> No chili is what I mean by chili. Like always when I use a word it means
>>>> exactly what I want it to mean an neither more nor less.
>>>
>>>So when you say "chili" you mean "no chili."
>>>
>>>That's bound to cause confusion.
>>
>> Unless we have already removed the last particle of common sense from our
>> brains in a Fantastic-Voyage-like montage?
>
>But have you collected all the bits of fluff?

Usenet keeps making more!

[Robert Carnegie]

On Feb 12, 2:50 am, erilar <dra...@chibardun.net.invalid> wrote:
> In article <8762fd1ofw....@jackson.wistly.net>,

>  Carson Chittom <car...@wistly.net> wrote:
>
> > Forget the tomato juice; I'm concerned that I can't seem to buy suet
> > anywhere.  I was going to make a pudding this past Christmas---as an
> > experiment, since I've never made one before---and couldn't find any
> > suet for love or money.
>
> No one feeds birds around there? No yards ? There's suet in the local
> grocery stores around here; people put it out for birds.

But you wouldn't /necessarily/ eat it yourself.

I mean, when you put it out for birds, do the birds keep it
refrigerated? No: so, their standards aren't ours.

[Carson Chittom]

"True beef suet is best obtained from a butcher; it is not the same as
suet sold for bird feeding." Thus saith my copy of _The Joy of
Cooking_; if it's leading me astray here, it'll be the first time.

[erilar]

In article
<31c50e99-87e9-451a...@v2g2000vbx.googlegroups.com>,

I didn't suggest eating it AFTER putting it out for birds 8-) And I
have no idea whether the suet at the grocery store is human-edible. I
just commented that I see it there. We also have a local butcher shop,
but then this is not a city.

--
Erilar, biblioholic medievalist

[Greg Goss]

Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:

>>suet

>I mean, when you put it out for birds, do the birds keep it
>refrigerated? No: so, their standards aren't ours.

Suet for birds is usually put out in the wintertime. Generally pretty
refrigerated.
--
"Recessions catch what the auditors miss." (Galbraith)

[Suzanne Blom]

But, she persisted, that still doesn't indicate whether bird suet is
human edible.

[Carson Chittom]

http://www.amazon.com/Suet-Songbird-Very-Berry-Cake/dp/B000IGGH6W/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1329076418&sr=8-1

"Not for human consumption." (Under "Product Description.") Now,
whether that really means "This won't *kill* you, per se, but we're legally
obliged to tell you not to eat it," I don't know.

Also, unrelatedly, "titmice" (on that same page) is a strange word---I
feel like it should be "titmouses."

[Greg Goss]

Carson Chittom <car...@wistly.net> wrote:

>"Not for human consumption." (Under "Product Description.") Now,
>whether that really means "This won't *kill* you, per se, but we're legally
>obliged to tell you not to eat it," I don't know.

In the early eighties, I used to attend an auction. One of the
frequent products that they had was past-due preformed hamburgers that
they sold as "dog food".

[Howard Brazee]

On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 13:57:05 -0600, Carson Chittom <car...@wistly.net>
wrote:

>

>"Not for human consumption." (Under "Product Description.") Now,
>whether that really means "This won't *kill* you, per se, but we're legally
>obliged to tell you not to eat it," I don't know.

I suspect it means "we produced it without worrying about laws and
requirements needed for human consumption products".

[ppint. at pplay]

- hi; in article, <9plluo...@mid.individual.net>,
Robert Bannister <rob...@bigpond.com>:
> Michael Stemper wrote:
>> David Dyer-Bennet<dd...@dd-b.net> writes:

>>> "Brian M. Scott"<b.s...@csuohio.edu> writes:
>>>> And the version with which I grew up was more of a soup than
>>>> anything else.

>>> That's how it shows up in restaurant menus mostly.
>>> But then, soups and stews are not very different; it'd be hard to define
>>> a precise difference between them that would be widely accepted.
>> Certainly no more difficult than defining the precise difference between
>> science fiction and fantasy.
>
>Are you trying to stir up trouble?
>
>My definition of the soup-stew divide is when it is no longer practical
>to eat it with a fork. In other words, you can usually eat a stew with a
>spoon, but you don't have to. With some soups, you might also start with
>a fork, but you really have to drink up the remainder or spoon it up -
>just wiping it up with bread or similar isn't enough, or if it is, then
>it was stew.

- so which is thickened with cornflour...

- sf or fantasy ?

- love, a ppint. in urgent need of new shop premises
[please drop the "v", and change the "f" to a "g",
should you wish to cc, or email, me]
--
interstellar master traders 33 north road lancaster LA1-1NS england
lancaster's sf/f/horror role-playing game and book shop
http://www.i-m-t.demon.co.uk +44-781-344-1539 & +44-1524-382181
12 - 7pm (later by arrangement) monday through friday
12(noon) - 7pm saturday
[n.b. restricted opening times 'til new premises found]

[David Dyer-Bennet]

When we put it out for birds, the *WEATHER* keeps it refrigerated.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, dd...@dd-b.net; http://dd-b.net/
Snapshots: http://dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/data/
Photos: http://dd-b.net/photography/gallery/
Dragaera: http://dragaera.info

[Suzanne Blom]

On 2/12/2012 2:58 PM, Howard Brazee wrote:
> On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 13:57:05 -0600, Carson Chittom<car...@wistly.net>
> wrote:
>
> > "Not for human consumption." (Under "Product Description.") Now,
>> whether that really means "This won't *kill* you, per se, but we're legally
>> obliged to tell you not to eat it," I don't know.
>
> I suspect it means "we produced it without worrying about laws and
> requirements needed for human consumption products".
>

Yeah, wikipedia seems to think it's the same stuff.
One interesting thing I didn't know is that modern prepackaged suet
has flour added. Another trap for the gluten intolerant.

[Robert Bannister]

On 13/02/12 4:26 PM, ppint. at pplay wrote:
> - hi; in article,<9plluo...@mid.individual.net>,
> Robert Bannister<rob...@bigpond.com>:
>> Michael Stemper wrote:
>>> David Dyer-Bennet<dd...@dd-b.net> writes:
>>>> "Brian M. Scott"<b.s...@csuohio.edu> writes:
>>>>> And the version with which I grew up was more of a soup than
>>>>> anything else.
>>>> That's how it shows up in restaurant menus mostly.
>>>> But then, soups and stews are not very different; it'd be hard to define
>>>> a precise difference between them that would be widely accepted.
>>> Certainly no more difficult than defining the precise difference between
>>> science fiction and fantasy.
>>
>> Are you trying to stir up trouble?
>>
>> My definition of the soup-stew divide is when it is no longer practical
>> to eat it with a fork. In other words, you can usually eat a stew with a
>> spoon, but you don't have to. With some soups, you might also start with
>> a fork, but you really have to drink up the remainder or spoon it up -
>> just wiping it up with bread or similar isn't enough, or if it is, then
>> it was stew.
>
> - so which is thickened with cornflour...

I only thicken Chinese food with cornflour because that's what they do.
For stews, I shake the meat in a plastic bag with plain wheat flour and
seasoning before browning. I don't thicken soup as a rule because all
those chopped up or blended vegetables are thickening enough.


--
Robert Bannister