Best Ever Written?
Kurt Busiek
SF, rather than doing it here, I figured I'd co-opt his subject, and
throw it open for discussion here, rather than there.
What would you say is the best SF novel ever written? The best short
story? The best novella? The best anthology?
Feel free to lump all spec-fic together or break it into categories.
Interpreting "best ever" as "favorite" or as "highest quality" (for
those who draw a distinction) is optional.
I have no idea what I'd pick. My mind races off in multiple directions
-- CITIZEN OF THE GALAXY? THE TIME-TRAVELER'S WIFE? LORD OF THE RINGS?
"The Tower of the Elephant?" Something by Dunsany? Zelazny? THE
PRINCESS BRIDE?
And then it rejects them all as unsuitable, starts to dart off other
ways, can't decide where to go and collapses in a bewildered heap.
So I'm no help. But I'm interested in what others would pick.
kdb
--
Visit http://www.busiek.com -- for all your Busiek needs!
Lawrence Watt-Evans
wrote:
>What would you say is the best SF novel ever written? The best short
>story? The best novella? The best anthology?
>
>So I'm no help. But I'm interested in what others would pick.
Last time I was asked this question, I eventually settled on Bester's
THE STARS MY DESTINATION for best novel.
That was about twenty years ago; I'm not sure I'd still agree with my
younger self.
--
My webpage is at http://www.watt-evans.com
I'm selling my comic collection -- see http://www.watt-evans.com/comics.html
I'm serializing a novel at http://www.watt-evans.com/realmsoflight0.html
Will in New Haven
> On Thu, 8 Apr 2010 10:49:01 -0700, Kurt Busiek <k...@busiek.com>
> wrote:
>
> >What would you say is the best SF novel ever written? The best short
> >story? The best novella? The best anthology?
>
> >So I'm no help. But I'm interested in what others would pick.
>
> Last time I was asked this question, I eventually settled on Bester's
> THE STARS MY DESTINATION for best novel.
>
> That was about twenty years ago; I'm not sure I'd still agree with my
> younger self.
But could you discuss it civilly? I won't even talk to the imbecile
adolescent who was so impressed with Vonegut.
Although I have nothing against Vonegut and have reread his works with
pleasure my seventeen-year-old self is insufferable.
--
Will in New Haven
Taemon
My younger self was bowled over by The Birth Grave, which I might still
enjoy if I wasn't so thoroughly annoyed by Tanith Lee's focus on looks. And
incest. Now... K.J. Parker's Scavenger? Sheri Tepper's Family Tree? Nah...
Julian May's Saga of the Exiles.
T.
lal_truckee
> On Thu, 8 Apr 2010 10:49:01 -0700, Kurt Busiek<ku...@busiek.com>
> wrote:
>
>> What would you say is the best SF novel ever written? The best short
>> story? The best novella? The best anthology?
>>
>> So I'm no help. But I'm interested in what others would pick.
>
> Last time I was asked this question, I eventually settled on Bester's
> THE STARS MY DESTINATION for best novel.
>
> That was about twenty years ago; I'm not sure I'd still agree with my
> younger self.
That kid is still correct.
Szymon Sokół
> Since Andrew Burt is hoping to entice people off to his website to talk
> SF, rather than doing it here, I figured I'd co-opt his subject, and
> throw it open for discussion here, rather than there.
>
> What would you say is the best SF novel ever written? The best short
> story? The best novella? The best anthology?
The last one is easy: "The Road to Science Fiction", ed. James Gunn.
For the novel, it is much harder. "Lord of the Rings" for fantasy, "Dune"
for space opera, "1984" for alternative history/sociological fiction, maybe,
and for hard SF I really can't make my mind.
For the short story, I am not even going to try.
--
Szymon Sokół (SS316-RIPE) -- Network Manager B
Computer Center, AGH - University of Science and Technology, Cracow, Poland O
http://home.agh.edu.pl/szymon/ PGP key id: RSA: 0x2ABE016B, DSS: 0xF9289982 F
Free speech includes the right not to listen, if not interested -- Heinlein H
Mike Schilling
> On Thu, 8 Apr 2010 10:49:01 -0700, Kurt Busiek <ku...@busiek.com>
> wrote:
>
>> What would you say is the best SF novel ever written? The best short
>> story? The best novella? The best anthology?
>>
>> So I'm no help. But I'm interested in what others would pick.
>
> Last time I was asked this question, I eventually settled on Bester's
> THE STARS MY DESTINATION for best novel.
>
> That was about twenty years ago; I'm not sure I'd still agree with my
> younger self.
Wonderful book (though I like The Demolished Man even better). Best of all
time is hard, though. Candidates would include
The Demolished Man
Mirror Dance
The Anubis Gates
The Once and Future King
The Princess Bride
Aristoi
Michael Stemper
>What would you say is the best SF novel ever written? The best short
>story? The best novella? The best anthology?
>
>Feel free to lump all spec-fic together or break it into categories.
>
>Interpreting "best ever" as "favorite" or as "highest quality" (for
>those who draw a distinction) is optional.
For what it's worth, my "tens" include:
- Anderson's Polesotechnic/Terran Empire series
- Bester's _The Stars My Destination_
- Clarke's _ City and the Stars_
- Herbert's _Dune_ (the novel, not the series)
- Miller's _A Canticle for Leibowitz_
- Peake's Gormenghast works
- Saberhagen's Berserker series
- _The Lord of the Rings_
- White's _The Once and Future King_
There are actually many things that I read more often than these, but
these all have their own blends of writing style, emotion-tugging, and
sensawunda that put them into my personal pantheon.
Tallying them up, I'm surprised that this list is as heavily tilted
towards fantasy as it is (1/3), because fantasy doesn't make up anywhere
near one-third of my reading. On the other hand, looking at it in
terms of shelf-feet would make it much less fantasy-biased, due to
a few series on the science fiction side.
Some of my "favorite" science fiction authors (Asimov, Heinlein, and
Smith) don't show at all. The Clarke entry is the only thing of his
that I like. Most of of this list is nearly as old as I am (the
significant exception being the Berserker works).
--
Michael F. Stemper
#include <Standard_Disclaimer>
This email is to be read by its intended recipient only. Any other party
reading is required by the EULA to send me $500.00.
Dorothy J Heydt
Kurt Busiek <ku...@busiek.com> wrote:
>Since Andrew Burt is hoping to entice people off to his website to talk
>SF, rather than doing it here, I figured I'd co-opt his subject, and
>throw it open for discussion here, rather than there.
>
>What would you say is the best SF novel ever written? The best short
>story? The best novella? The best anthology?
>
>Feel free to lump all spec-fic together or break it into categories.
Oh, well, in that case -- if we are pre-emptively discounting all
cries of "But that isn't SCIENCE FICTION; that's elfy-welfy
fantasy!!!", then no question. _The Lord of the Rings._
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at hotmail dot com
Should you wish to email me, you'd better use the hotmail edress.
Kithrup is getting too damn much spam, even with the sysop's filters.
David DeLaney
>story? The best novella? The best anthology?
>I have no idea what I'd pick. My mind races off in multiple directions
>-- CITIZEN OF THE GALAXY? THE TIME-TRAVELER'S WIFE? LORD OF THE RINGS?
>"The Tower of the Elephant?" Something by Dunsany? Zelazny? THE
>PRINCESS BRIDE?
>
>And then it rejects them all as unsuitable, starts to dart off other
>ways, can't decide where to go and collapses in a bewildered heap.
>
>So I'm no help. But I'm interested in what others would pick.
I believe I share your disability here; I have drunk deep, and can no longer
pick just one. (HOW CAN WE LEAVE OUT EDWARD EAGER? AND/OR ANN MAXWELL? AND...
<retreats into distance, alphabetically>)
But I am also interested.
Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from d...@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Taemon
> For the short story, I am not even going to try.
Duh! The ones that walk away from Omelas.
T.
Joseph Nebus
>Lawrence Watt-Evans wrote:
>> Last time I was asked this question, I eventually settled on Bester's
>> THE STARS MY DESTINATION for best novel.
>>
>> That was about twenty years ago; I'm not sure I'd still agree with my
>> younger self.
>Wonderful book (though I like The Demolished Man even better).
I like _The Demolished Man_ better, although I wouldn't say that
picking _The Stars My Destination_ would be wrong. Probably. As long as
we can agree it's not _The Computer Connection_.
--
Joseph Nebus
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Huebner
@z4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>, bill....@taylorandfrancis.com says...
I wouldn't go as far as that w.r.t. my younger self, but tastes
certainly do change, as do the times and the perspective on certain
things.
I loved EE Smith when I first read him, now I found the Kinnison saga to
be populated with cardboard cutouts when I tried to re-read it a few
years back.
So I'm shifting my criteria to 'enduring'.
"Left Hand of Darkness" - I recently re-read and it moved me the same
way as when I read it for the first time.
"Dune" for space opera, also recently re-read.
"Sideshow" is another, just for the characters in it that are variously
fascinating.
"The Explorers" by Kornbluth for short stories that make me grin madly
today as they did way back when, although Ted Sturgeon should be a
contender - I just haven't re-read any of his stuff in over a decade and
so I don't know how I'd react today. (note to self: must dig out
Sturgeon)
For alternate history cum sfnal fantasy I'd nominate Wurts/Feists
"Daughter/Servant/Mistres of the Empire" series. I know, not all _that_
sfnal, but for the magic wormholes to another world/dimension.
For plain alt/history I'd nominate Gentle's "Clockwork in a Grave" at
the moment, but that may change - I've only read it once.
gtg, that's all I can think of just now .... -P.
Jack Tingle
> Since Andrew Burt is hoping to entice people off to his website to talk
> SF, rather than doing it here, I figured I'd co-opt his subject, and
> throw it open for discussion here, rather than there.
>
> What would you say is the best SF novel ever written? The best short
> story? The best novella? The best anthology?
a) Who is Andrew Burt, and why the hell would I want to visit his
website? Is there money for me involved? If not ... HA!
b) My standard answer for skiffy:
Novel: Zelazny, Robert, "Lord of Light"
Honorable mention: Kirstein, Rosemary, the Steerswoman stories
Medium Length: Moore, CF, "No Woman Born"
Short Story: Sturgeon, Ted, "Slow Sculpture"
for fantasy:
Novel: Stewart, Sean, "Clouds End"
ML: none
SS: none
As for anthologies, I have a hard time rating these, so I pass.
Good questions, and likely to yield high-grade reading recommendations.
A clever, yet diabolical plan. Bwhaha!
Regards,
Jack Tingle
Silk
My most loved sf novels include
Fantasy-The Lord of the Rings
SF-more difficult,maybe Dune,want to mention Asimov for all the
childhood enjoyment he gave me so should include a short-story by
him,maybe the one where the professor can fly.Brian Aldiss'
anthologies are good
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
There's little difference between my forty-seven year old self and my
seventeen year old self except experience, near as I can tell. And
degenerative aging changes, curse this fragile biological shell!
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Live Journal: http://seawasp.livejournal.com
Dave Hansen
Ugh. That's a sermon, not a story. And a boring one at that.
My nomination for short story would have to be "All You Zombies".
For novel, I'd go with "Soldier of Sidon," but that maybe leans too
far toward fantasy. "Wasp", maybe, though that might not be long
enough by modern standards to be a novel -- I just read somewhere that
"A Case of Conscience" is considered a novella.
Regards,
-=Dave
Lawrence Watt-Evans
So anyone care to nominate a best SF song? Mine would be "Have You
Seen the Stars Tonight?" by Paul Kantner & friends. (The album,
"Blows Against the Empire," is credited to Jefferson Starship, but
except for Kantner and Slick it's a completely different group than
the later Starship.)
In poetry, I get a sort of SF/fantasy feel from "Ozymandias," but I
concede it's not really SF. There are several classic fantasy poems
from the 19th century -- "The Highwayman," "The Lady of Shalott," etc.
Butch Malahide
> So anyone care to nominate a best SF song? Mine would be "Have You
> Seen the Stars Tonight?" by Paul Kantner & friends.
Just real songs, right? No filk allowed?
"The Purple People Eater."
"The Thing."
("The Little Blue Man" is too dark and grim for my taste: a woman,
maddened by her stalker, tries to kill him.)
> In poetry, I get a sort of SF/fantasy feel from "Ozymandias," but I
> concede it's not really SF. There are several classic fantasy poems
> from the 19th century -- "The Highwayman," "The Lady of Shalott," etc.
I get an SF/fantasy feel from Tennyson's "Ulysses" and "Locksley
Hall", and from Coleridge's "Kubla Khan" and "The Rime of the Ancient
Mariner"; but I'll nominate "The Deacon's Masterpiect, or The
Wonderful One-Hoss Shay" by Oliver Wendell Holmes, a Probability Zero
story in verse.
Butch Malahide
Sorry, that should be "Masterpiece."
Dorothy J Heydt
Lawrence Watt-Evans <l...@sff.net> wrote:
>
>So anyone care to nominate a best SF song? Mine would be "Have You
>Seen the Stars Tonight?" by Paul Kantner & friends. (The album,
>"Blows Against the Empire," is credited to Jefferson Starship, but
>except for Kantner and Slick it's a completely different group than
Leslie Fish, "Surprise!"
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Should you wish to email me, you'd better use the gmail edress.
Kithrup's all spammy and hotmail's been hacked.
Moriarty
I'll go with:
Novel: _LOTR_. Honourable mentions to: _The Last Continent_ or _Soul
Music_ by Sir PTerry, HHGTTG by Douglas Adams, Alistair Reynolds
_House of Suns_ and Zelazny's _Lord of Light_.
Novella: "A Witch Shall Be Born" - REH
Short: Harder to choose. I've always had a soft spot for Asimov's
"The Last Question" and "Profession". Zelazny wrote some excellent
stuff too esp. "The Great Slow Kings" or "For a Breath, I Tarry".
Bradbury's "The Veldt" or Wyndham's "Odd"? I think I'll settle on
"Orange is for Anguish, Blue is for Insanity" by David Morrell (yes,
he of Rambo fame), a wonderful take on Van Gogh.
-Moriarty
Chris
Fantasy- LotR
SF: Tough one. Almost impossible. Dune is right up there, but so are
Startide Rising and Earth by Brin.
Chris
Christopher Adams
I haven't yet read THE DEMOLISHED MAN, and I know the book as TIGER, TIGER!
anyway, but I'm tempted to agree.
--
Christopher Adams
Sydney, Australia
Beadie Russell: Why me?
Jimmy McNulty: I don't know. I guess you don't live right.
- The Wire
Mike Schilling
> lal_truckee wrote:
>> On 4/8/10 11:20 AM, Lawrence Watt-Evans wrote:
>>
>>> Last time I was asked this question, I eventually settled on
>>> Bester's THE STARS MY DESTINATION for best novel.
>>>
>>> That was about twenty years ago; I'm not sure I'd still agree with
>>> my younger self.
>>
>> That kid is still correct.
>
> I haven't yet read THE DEMOLISHED MAN
Do. You'll thank everyone who suggested it.
Christopher Adams
I'm sure I will.
Since TIGER, TIGER! was from my father's collection of SF paperbacks, I
should mention that I think his submission for the best novel ever written
would be Theodore Sturgeon's MORE THAN HUMAN.
Howard Brazee
wrote:
>Last time I was asked this question, I eventually settled on Bester's
>THE STARS MY DESTINATION for best novel.
>
>That was about twenty years ago; I'm not sure I'd still agree with my
>younger self.
I've done the same thing, and have the same lack of surety.
--
"In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found,
than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace
to the legislature, and not to the executive department."
- James Madison
Moriarty
> So anyone care to nominate a best SF song? Mine would be "Have You
> Seen the Stars Tonight?" by Paul Kantner & friends. (The album,
> "Blows Against the Empire," is credited to Jefferson Starship, but
> except for Kantner and Slick it's a completely different group than
> the later Starship.)
If you're into the genre, plenty of Heavy Metal bands put out some
really good SF, or SF inspired, songs. Off the top of my head, Black
Sabbath had "NIB" (the devil falls in love with a mortal woman) and
"Iron Man" about a time-travelling harbringer of the apocalypse. Most
of the stuff the did with Ronnie James Dio on vocals is heavily
fantsay themed as is RJD's stuff with Rainbow and Dio.
Michael Moorcock wrote songs for Hawkwind and Blue Oyster Cult. Uriah
Heep were also heavily influenced by the New Wave.
Iron Maiden's "To Tame a Land" is a musical version of Dune (they
wanted to call the song "Dune" but Frank Herbert wouldn't let them).
A lot of their other stuff is horror/fantasy themed.
Metallica's "Creeping Death" and "Call of Ktulu", Judas Priest with
"Painkiller", Led Zeppelin "Stairway to Heaven" and "The Battle of
Evermore" amongst others.
In fact, an awful lot of the NWOBHM bands were writing fantasy based
stuff. Heck, one of the bands even called themselves Tygers of Pan
Tang.
Blind Guardian's 1998 album "Nightfall in Middle Earth" covers Morgoth
and the First Age.
However, IMHO the best SF music ever would be Jeff Wayne's musical
version of "War of the Worlds". Narrated by Richard Burton with
Justin Hayward, Julie Covington, David Essex and Phil Lynott.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8JLqsbK5V0
>
> In poetry, I get a sort of SF/fantasy feel from "Ozymandias," but I
> concede it's not really SF. There are several classic fantasy poems
> from the 19th century -- "The Highwayman," "The Lady of Shalott," etc.
"Rime of the Ancient Mariner". Also converted into music by Iron
Maiden.
-Moriarty
Splicer
> For the short story, I am not even going to try.
>
I vote for "Flowers For Algernon".
Dorothy J Heydt
Butch Malahide <fred....@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Apr 8, 5:36 pm, Lawrence Watt-Evans <l...@sff.net> wrote:
>> So anyone care to nominate a best SF song? Mine would be "Have You
>> Seen the Stars Tonight?" by Paul Kantner & friends.
>
>Just real songs, right? No filk allowed?
>"The Purple People Eater."
>"The Thing."
And "The Thing" spawned its own SF story.
YASID, if anybody can?
It began, ~"Well, there was this song, a couple years ago. Phil
Harris sang it. It was about an unnamed thing that nobody
wanted, a thing so undesirable it made you a social outcast.
Never thought I'd see one myself, though. Dirty Pete found it."~
The gist was that some small, defenseless aliens investigating
earth disguised themselves as whatever the observer most didn't
want. To Dirty Pete, the first one looked like a bar of soap.
So he tried to sell it to one of his buddies...
The last line was, ~"So, Mr. Mayor, have any of your felllow
citizens seen anything lying about that they don't want? If so,
we'd like to take a look at it."~
_Galaxy_, early fifties.
Mike Schilling
> Mike Schilling wrote:
>> Christopher Adams wrote:
>>> lal_truckee wrote:
>>>> Lawrence Watt-Evans wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Last time I was asked this question, I eventually settled on
>>>>> Bester's THE STARS MY DESTINATION for best novel.
>>>>>
>>>>> That was about twenty years ago; I'm not sure I'd still agree with
>>>>> my younger self.
>>>>
>>>> That kid is still correct.
>>>
>>> I haven't yet read THE DEMOLISHED MAN
>>
>> Do. You'll thank everyone who suggested it.
>
> I'm sure I will.
>
> Since TIGER, TIGER! was from my father's collection of SF paperbacks,
> I should mention that I think his submission for the best novel ever
> written would be Theodore Sturgeon's MORE THAN HUMAN.
Find a used copy of Damon Knight's anthology _A Science Fiction Argosy_;
besides a raft of great stories, it includes both TDM and MTH. In fact, if
we're voting for best anthology ever, that's got my vote. Well, tied with
Boucher's Treasury.
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
> So anyone care to nominate a best SF song? Mine would be "Have You
> Seen the Stars Tonight?" by Paul Kantner & friends. (The album,
> "Blows Against the Empire," is credited to Jefferson Starship, but
> except for Kantner and Slick it's a completely different group than
> the later Starship.)
Mine would be tied for a lot of different Rush tunes. If I had to pick
one, probably "Xanadu" (no, not that one, that was ELO).
>
> In poetry, I get a sort of SF/fantasy feel from "Ozymandias," but I
> concede it's not really SF. There are several classic fantasy poems
> from the 19th century -- "The Highwayman," "The Lady of Shalott," etc.
>
THE classic is "Kubla Khan", from which the Rush song took its
inspiration. But I haven't read nearly enough poetry to judge.
Lawrence Watt-Evans
<blu...@ivillage.com> wrote:
>I'll go with:
>
>Novel: _LOTR_. Honourable mentions to: _The Last Continent_ or _Soul
>Music_ by Sir PTerry, HHGTTG by Douglas Adams, Alistair Reynolds
>_House of Suns_ and Zelazny's _Lord of Light_.
_The Last Continent_? Really? I consider that one of the three
weakest Discworld novels.
If I went with Pratchett, _Soul Music_ is a good choice, but I might
go for _Wyrd Sisters_, or one of the Vimes novels.
>Novella: "A Witch Shall Be Born" - REH
Yeah. Good pick.
>Short: Harder to choose. I've always had a soft spot for Asimov's
>"The Last Question" and "Profession". Zelazny wrote some excellent
>stuff too esp. "The Great Slow Kings" or "For a Breath, I Tarry".
>Bradbury's "The Veldt" or Wyndham's "Odd"? I think I'll settle on
>"Orange is for Anguish, Blue is for Insanity" by David Morrell (yes,
>he of Rambo fame), a wonderful take on Van Gogh.
That seems a very odd assortment to me.
Lawrence Watt-Evans
<lal_t...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On 4/8/10 11:20 AM, Lawrence Watt-Evans wrote:
>> On Thu, 8 Apr 2010 10:49:01 -0700, Kurt Busiek<ku...@busiek.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> What would you say is the best SF novel ever written? The best short
>>> story? The best novella? The best anthology?
>>>
>>> So I'm no help. But I'm interested in what others would pick.
>>
>> Last time I was asked this question, I eventually settled on Bester's
>> THE STARS MY DESTINATION for best novel.
>>
>> That was about twenty years ago; I'm not sure I'd still agree with my
>> younger self.
>
>That kid is still correct.
Kid? Twenty years ago I was thirty-five.
Lawrence Watt-Evans
<blu...@ivillage.com> wrote:
>On Apr 9, 8:36 am, Lawrence Watt-Evans <l...@sff.net> wrote:
>> So anyone care to nominate a best SF song? Mine would be "Have You
>> Seen the Stars Tonight?" by Paul Kantner & friends. (The album,
>> "Blows Against the Empire," is credited to Jefferson Starship, but
>> except for Kantner and Slick it's a completely different group than
>> the later Starship.)
>
>If you're into the genre, plenty of Heavy Metal bands put out some
>really good SF, or SF inspired, songs. Off the top of my head, Black
>Sabbath had "NIB" (the devil falls in love with a mortal woman) and
>"Iron Man" about a time-travelling harbringer of the apocalypse. Most
>of the stuff the did with Ronnie James Dio on vocals is heavily
>fantsay themed as is RJD's stuff with Rainbow and Dio.
>
>Michael Moorcock wrote songs for Hawkwind and Blue Oyster Cult. Uriah
>Heep were also heavily influenced by the New Wave.
Up to that point, I'm familiar with everything you list but would
still pick the Kantner.
>Iron Maiden's "To Tame a Land" is a musical version of Dune (they
>wanted to call the song "Dune" but Frank Herbert wouldn't let them).
>A lot of their other stuff is horror/fantasy themed.
That one, though, I don't know.
>Metallica's "Creeping Death" and "Call of Ktulu", Judas Priest with
>"Painkiller", Led Zeppelin "Stairway to Heaven" and "The Battle of
>Evermore" amongst others.
"The Battle of Evermore" would probably make my top ten.
>In fact, an awful lot of the NWOBHM bands were writing fantasy based
>stuff. Heck, one of the bands even called themselves Tygers of Pan
>Tang.
Oh, there's tons of SF-based music -- the Alan Parsons Project is
another you could mention, and Queen dabbled. There's Spock's Beard
-- not that they're very good.
>Blind Guardian's 1998 album "Nightfall in Middle Earth" covers Morgoth
>and the First Age.
Another one I don't know!
>However, IMHO the best SF music ever would be Jeff Wayne's musical
>version of "War of the Worlds". Narrated by Richard Burton with
>Justin Hayward, Julie Covington, David Essex and Phil Lynott.
>
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8JLqsbK5V0
Eh.
>> In poetry, I get a sort of SF/fantasy feel from "Ozymandias," but I
>> concede it's not really SF. There are several classic fantasy poems
>> from the 19th century -- "The Highwayman," "The Lady of Shalott," etc.
>
>"Rime of the Ancient Mariner". Also converted into music by Iron
>Maiden.
Doesn't do it for me.
Lawrence Watt-Evans
<sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>Lawrence Watt-Evans wrote:
>> So anyone care to nominate a best SF song? Mine would be "Have You
>> Seen the Stars Tonight?" by Paul Kantner & friends. (The album,
>> "Blows Against the Empire," is credited to Jefferson Starship, but
>> except for Kantner and Slick it's a completely different group than
>> the later Starship.)
>
> Mine would be tied for a lot of different Rush tunes. If I had to pick
>one, probably "Xanadu" (no, not that one, that was ELO).
Not "Red Barchetta"?
Oh, that reminds me, Prince did some vaguely SF music.
>> In poetry, I get a sort of SF/fantasy feel from "Ozymandias," but I
>> concede it's not really SF. There are several classic fantasy poems
>> from the 19th century -- "The Highwayman," "The Lady of Shalott," etc.
>
> THE classic is "Kubla Khan", from which the Rush song took its
>inspiration. But I haven't read nearly enough poetry to judge.
"Kubla Khan" is only borderline fantasy.
lal_truckee
> On Thu, 08 Apr 2010 11:49:05 -0700, lal_truckee
> <lal_t...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> That kid is still correct.
>
> Kid? Twenty years ago I was thirty-five.
Ah, then "kid" was correct usage?
Lawrence Watt-Evans
wrote:
>In article <0575bb19-2712-409a...@y14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
>Butch Malahide <fred....@gmail.com> wrote:
>>On Apr 8, 5:36 pm, Lawrence Watt-Evans <l...@sff.net> wrote:
>>> So anyone care to nominate a best SF song? Mine would be "Have You
>>> Seen the Stars Tonight?" by Paul Kantner & friends.
>>
>>Just real songs, right? No filk allowed?
>>"The Purple People Eater."
>>"The Thing."
>
>And "The Thing" spawned its own SF story.
>
>YASID, if anybody can?
>
>It began, ~"Well, there was this song, a couple years ago. Phil
>Harris sang it. It was about an unnamed thing that nobody
>wanted, a thing so undesirable it made you a social outcast.
>Never thought I'd see one myself, though. Dirty Pete found it."~
>
>The gist was that some small, defenseless aliens investigating
>earth disguised themselves as whatever the observer most didn't
>want. To Dirty Pete, the first one looked like a bar of soap.
>So he tried to sell it to one of his buddies...
>
>The last line was, ~"So, Mr. Mayor, have any of your felllow
>citizens seen anything lying about that they don't want? If so,
>we'd like to take a look at it."~
>
>_Galaxy_, early fifties.
"See?' by Edward G. Robles Jr. It was included in _Fifty Short
Science Fiction Tales_, edited by Asimov & Conklin.
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
> On Thu, 08 Apr 2010 21:05:45 -0400, "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)"
> <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>
>> Lawrence Watt-Evans wrote:
>>> So anyone care to nominate a best SF song? Mine would be "Have You
>>> Seen the Stars Tonight?" by Paul Kantner & friends. (The album,
>>> "Blows Against the Empire," is credited to Jefferson Starship, but
>>> except for Kantner and Slick it's a completely different group than
>>> the later Starship.)
>> Mine would be tied for a lot of different Rush tunes. If I had to pick
>> one, probably "Xanadu" (no, not that one, that was ELO).
>
> Not "Red Barchetta"?
No, that one's good, but not the top level. Xanadu still gives me
chills when I listen to it. I also love their concept albums, but that
doesn't count as "A Song". Perhaps "Cygnus X-1" or "The Necromancer" as
alternative candidates.
Walter Bushell
Peter Huebner <no....@this.address> wrote:
> I loved EE Smith when I first read him, now I found the Kinnison saga to
> be populated with cardboard cutouts when I tried to re-read it a few
> years back.
But if you turn the Lensman series into a movie in your mind, which is
the proper use, it's a blockbuster.
--
A computer without Microsoft is like a chocolate cake without mustard.
plausible prose man
> So anyone care to nominate a best SF song?
David Bowie's album "The Rise and Fall of Ziggy Stardust and the
Spiders From Mars," includes several, probably the best are "Starman"
and "Five Years."
Walter Bushell
lal_truckee <lal_t...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On 4/8/10 11:20 AM, Lawrence Watt-Evans wrote:
> > On Thu, 8 Apr 2010 10:49:01 -0700, Kurt Busiek<ku...@busiek.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> What would you say is the best SF novel ever written? The best short
> >> story? The best novella? The best anthology?
> >>
> >> So I'm no help. But I'm interested in what others would pick.
> >
> > Last time I was asked this question, I eventually settled on Bester's
> > THE STARS MY DESTINATION for best novel.
> >
> > That was about twenty years ago; I'm not sure I'd still agree with my
> > younger self.
>
>
> That kid is still correct.
Characterization would only have gotten in the way of the *plot*.
Moriarty
> On Thu, 8 Apr 2010 16:28:59 -0700 (PDT), Moriarty
>
> >I'll go with:
>
> >Novel: _LOTR_. Honourable mentions to: _The Last Continent_ or _Soul
> >Music_ by Sir PTerry, HHGTTG by Douglas Adams, Alistair Reynolds
> >_House of Suns_ and Zelazny's _Lord of Light_.
>
> _The Last Continent_? Really? I consider that one of the three
> weakest Discworld novels.
Maybe it's because I'm Australian that I appreciate it more.
-Moriarty
Butch Malahide
> On Thu, 08 Apr 2010 21:05:45 -0400, "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)"
> >Lawrence Watt-Evans wrote:
> >> In poetry, I get a sort of SF/fantasy feel from "Ozymandias," but I
> >> concede it's not really SF. There are several classic fantasy poems
> >> from the 19th century -- "The Highwayman," "The Lady of Shalott," etc.
>
> > THE classic is "Kubla Khan", from which the Rush song took its
> >inspiration. But I haven't read nearly enough poetry to judge.
>
> "Kubla Khan" is only borderline fantasy.
Compared with "Ozymandias"? Uh, whatever. Anyway, here is my nominee
for Best Stfnal Poem: "Christ in the Universe" by Alice Meynell. You
can read it here:
http://www.poetry-archive.com/m/christ_in_the_universe.html
Mike Schilling
> On Thu, 08 Apr 2010 11:49:05 -0700, lal_truckee
> <lal_t...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> On 4/8/10 11:20 AM, Lawrence Watt-Evans wrote:
>>> On Thu, 8 Apr 2010 10:49:01 -0700, Kurt Busiek<ku...@busiek.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> What would you say is the best SF novel ever written? The best
>>>> short story? The best novella? The best anthology?
>>>>
>>>> So I'm no help. But I'm interested in what others would pick.
>>>
>>> Last time I was asked this question, I eventually settled on
>>> Bester's THE STARS MY DESTINATION for best novel.
>>>
>>> That was about twenty years ago; I'm not sure I'd still agree with
>>> my younger self.
>>
>> That kid is still correct.
>
> Kid? Twenty years ago I was thirty-five.
Like the man said.
Lee K. Gleason
"Lawrence Watt-Evans" <l...@sff.net> wrote in message
news:kbmsr5hdiooe5kp72...@news.eternal-september.org...
>
> So anyone care to nominate a best SF song? Mine would be "Have You
> Seen the Stars Tonight?" by Paul Kantner & friends. (The album,
> "Blows Against the Empire," is credited to Jefferson Starship, but
> except for Kantner and Slick it's a completely different group than
> the later Starship.)
>
Airplane, the Grateful Dead and David Crosby & Graham Nash, along with
lyrics and a story inspired by Robert Heinlein, including quotes from
"Methuselah's Children" on the liner notes. Doesn't get any better. There
were rumors of a movie based on it. I buttonholed Kantner at a concert a few
years back and asked him about it. He said "It's never too late, man".
Here's hoping.
--
Lee K. Gleason N5ZMR
Control-G Consultants
lee.g...@comcast.net
Lawrence Watt-Evans
<fred....@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Apr 8, 9:52 pm, Lawrence Watt-Evans <l...@sff.net> wrote:
>> On Thu, 08 Apr 2010 21:05:45 -0400, "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)"
>> <seaw...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>> >Lawrence Watt-Evans wrote:
>> >> In poetry, I get a sort of SF/fantasy feel from "Ozymandias," but I
>> >> concede it's not really SF. There are several classic fantasy poems
>> >> from the 19th century -- "The Highwayman," "The Lady of Shalott," etc.
>>
>> > THE classic is "Kubla Khan", from which the Rush song took its
>> >inspiration. But I haven't read nearly enough poetry to judge.
>>
>> "Kubla Khan" is only borderline fantasy.
>
>Compared with "Ozymandias"?
Hey, I SAID I concede it's not really SF.
Lawrence Watt-Evans
<lee.g...@comcast.net> wrote:
>"Lawrence Watt-Evans" <l...@sff.net> wrote in message
>news:kbmsr5hdiooe5kp72...@news.eternal-september.org...
>>
>> So anyone care to nominate a best SF song? Mine would be "Have You
>> Seen the Stars Tonight?" by Paul Kantner & friends. (The album,
>> "Blows Against the Empire," is credited to Jefferson Starship, but
>> except for Kantner and Slick it's a completely different group than
>> the later Starship.)
>>
> More than just Paul Kantner and friends - more like The Jefferson
>Airplane, the Grateful Dead and David Crosby & Graham Nash...
Yeah, those were Kantner's friends. Basically, every musician in San
Francisco was on that album.
>...along with
>lyrics and a story inspired by Robert Heinlein, including quotes from
>"Methuselah's Children" on the liner notes.
Kantner's clearly an SF fan; earlier he swiped the lyrics for "Crown
of Creation" from Wyndham's "Re-Birth," and "War Movie" sounds to me
like he'd been reading Van Vogt.
> Doesn't get any better. There
>were rumors of a movie based on it. I buttonholed Kantner at a concert a few
>years back and asked him about it. He said "It's never too late, man".
>Here's hoping.
That would be very cool.
Dorothy J Heydt
Thank you!!! I shall see if I can find a copy.
Brian M. Scott
wrote in <news:hplel5$ve3$1...@news.eternal-september.org> in
rec.arts.sf.written:
> Szymon Sok�l wrote:
>> For the short story, I am not even going to try.
> Duh! The ones that walk away from Omelas.
Not even close.
Picking just one is both silly and impossible, but worthy
candidates include 'Old Hundredth' (Aldiss), 'The Visitor'
(Anderson), 'Kyrie' (Anderson), 'Come Lady Death' (Beagle),
'-- All You Zombies --' (Heinlein), 'Flowers for Algernon'
(Keyes), 'A Saucer of Loneliness' (Sturgeon), 'A Planet
Named Shayol' (Cordwainer Smith), 'The Ballad of Lost
C'Mell' (Cordwainer Smith), 'The Lady Who Sailed _The Soul_'
(Cordwainer Smith), and 'The Man Who Loved the Faioli'
(Zelazny). And those are just some whose titles I happen to
remember.
Brian
Mike Schilling
> On 2010-04-09, Lawrence Watt-Evans <l...@sff.net> wrote:
>> On Thu, 8 Apr 2010 16:28:59 -0700 (PDT), Moriarty
>> <blu...@ivillage.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I'll go with:
>>>
>>> Novel: _LOTR_. Honourable mentions to: _The Last Continent_ or
>>> _Soul Music_ by Sir PTerry, HHGTTG by Douglas Adams, Alistair
>>> Reynolds _House of Suns_ and Zelazny's _Lord of Light_.
>>
>> _The Last Continent_? Really? I consider that one of the three
>> weakest Discworld novels.
>>
>> If I went with Pratchett, _Soul Music_ is a good choice, but I might
>> go for _Wyrd Sisters_, or one of the Vimes novels.
>
> Discworld novels.
>
> If I went with Pratchett, _Small Gods_ is a good choice, but I'd
> probably go for _Night Watch_.
I'd definitely go with a Guards book, and Night Watch is probably the one.
Though there's a lot to be said for Jingo.
Butch Malahide
> On Thu, 8 Apr 2010 20:21:43 -0700 (PDT), Butch Malahide
> <fred.gal...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Apr 8, 9:52 pm, Lawrence Watt-Evans <l...@sff.net> wrote:
> >> "Kubla Khan" is only borderline fantasy.
>
> >Compared with "Ozymandias"?
>
> Hey, I SAID I concede it's not really SF.
Right, sorry about that. I'm thinking now that the Poetry Award should
be split into subcategories. Here are my nominees for:
BEST STFNAL NURSERY RHYME PARODY:
Winsor & Parry take all the prizes in this category. My pick for first
prize:
Solomon Grundy walked on Monday, rode on Tuesday, motored Wednesday,
planed on Thursday, rocketed Friday, spaceship Saturday, time machine
Sunday--where is the end for Solomon Grundy? (Frederick Winsor &
Marian Parry)
BEST LIMERICK, SPACE OPERA:
There was a young lady named Bright whose speed was much faster than
light. She set out one day in a relative way, and returned on the
previous night. (Anonymous)
BEST LIMERICK, HARD SCIENCE FICTION:
There was a young man from Racine who invented a f***ing machine;
concave or convex, it could do either sex, but oh, what a bastard to
clean. (Anonymous)
BEST LIMERICK, FANTASY:
The people of Candlewood Knolls are terribly troubled by trolls, who
are driving their cars, and brawling in bars, and voting for Thor at
the polls. (Morris Bishop)
Kurt Busiek
>
> So anyone care to nominate a best SF song? Mine would be "Have You
> Seen the Stars Tonight?" by Paul Kantner & friends. (The album,
> "Blows Against the Empire," is credited to Jefferson Starship, but
> except for Kantner and Slick it's a completely different group than
> the later Starship.)
>
> In poetry, I get a sort of SF/fantasy feel from "Ozymandias," but I
> concede it's not really SF. There are several classic fantasy poems
> from the 19th century -- "The Highwayman," "The Lady of Shalott," etc.
My mind goes to "39" by Queen for SF.
For fantasy, there are so many English faerie ballads; something by
Steeleye Span or Fairport Convention, maybe.
kdb
--
Visit http://www.busiek.com -- for all your Busiek needs!
Kurt Busiek
> Novella: "A Witch Shall Be Born" - REH
Ooh, good choice!
Kurt Busiek
> "Mike Schilling" <mscotts...@hotmail.com> writes:
>
>> Lawrence Watt-Evans wrote:
>>> Last time I was asked this question, I eventually settled on Bester's
>>> THE STARS MY DESTINATION for best novel.
>>>
>>> That was about twenty years ago; I'm not sure I'd still agree with my
>>> younger self.
>
>> Wonderful book (though I like The Demolished Man even better).
>
> I like _The Demolished Man_ better, although I wouldn't say that
> picking _The Stars My Destination_ would be wrong. Probably. As long as
> we can agree it's not _The Computer Connection_.
That was also called EXTRO!, right? I remember liking it, but wouldn't
rank it as a "best" candidate.
But I liked it.
Lawrence Watt-Evans
wrote:
>On 2010-04-08 15:36:24 -0700, Lawrence Watt-Evans <l...@sff.net> said:
>
>>
>> So anyone care to nominate a best SF song? Mine would be "Have You
>> Seen the Stars Tonight?" by Paul Kantner & friends. (The album,
>> "Blows Against the Empire," is credited to Jefferson Starship, but
>> except for Kantner and Slick it's a completely different group than
>> the later Starship.)
>>
>> In poetry, I get a sort of SF/fantasy feel from "Ozymandias," but I
>> concede it's not really SF. There are several classic fantasy poems
>> from the 19th century -- "The Highwayman," "The Lady of Shalott," etc.
>
>My mind goes to "39" by Queen for SF.
That's a good'un.
>For fantasy, there are so many English faerie ballads; something by
>Steeleye Span or Fairport Convention, maybe.
"Tam Lin," I'd say, if you want one of those.
Taemon
> On Thu, 8 Apr 2010 22:35:00 +0200, Taemon <Tae...@zonnet.nl>
> wrote in <news:hplel5$ve3$1...@news.eternal-september.org> in
> rec.arts.sf.written:
>> Szymon Sokól wrote:
>>> For the short story, I am not even going to try.
>> Duh! The ones that walk away from Omelas.
> Not even close.
You don't know how satisfying it is to be able to pick just one title
without having to think about it! I can only do that in the "short story"
category.
<snip>
> And those are just some whose titles I happen to remember.
Duh ;-)
T.
Paul Colquhoun
| On Apr 8, 5:36 pm, Lawrence Watt-Evans <l...@sff.net> wrote:
|> So anyone care to nominate a best SF song? Mine would be "Have You
|> Seen the Stars Tonight?" by Paul Kantner & friends.
|
| "The Purple People Eater."
| "The Thing."
| maddened by her stalker, tries to kill him.)
"Calling Occupants" - The Carpenters
|> In poetry, I get a sort of SF/fantasy feel from "Ozymandias," but I
|> concede it's not really SF. There are several classic fantasy poems
|> from the 19th century -- "The Highwayman," "The Lady of Shalott," etc.
|
| I get an SF/fantasy feel from Tennyson's "Ulysses" and "Locksley
| Hall", and from Coleridge's "Kubla Khan" and "The Rime of the Ancient
| Mariner"; but I'll nominate "The Deacon's Masterpiect, or The
| Wonderful One-Hoss Shay" by Oliver Wendell Holmes, a Probability Zero
| story in verse.
--
Reverend Paul Colquhoun, ULC. http://andor.dropbear.id.au/~paulcol
Asking for technical help in newsgroups? Read this first:
http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#intro
Paul Colquhoun
| Lawrence Watt-Evans wrote:
|> So anyone care to nominate a best SF song? Mine would be "Have You
|> "Blows Against the Empire," is credited to Jefferson Starship, but
|> except for Kantner and Slick it's a completely different group than
|> the later Starship.)
|
| one, probably "Xanadu" (no, not that one, that was ELO).
How about a full album? "Time" by ELO is pretty much the soundtrack to
an SF movie.
|> In poetry, I get a sort of SF/fantasy feel from "Ozymandias," but I
|> concede it's not really SF. There are several classic fantasy poems
|> from the 19th century -- "The Highwayman," "The Lady of Shalott," etc.
|>
|
| THE classic is "Kubla Khan", from which the Rush song took its
| inspiration. But I haven't read nearly enough poetry to judge.
David DeLaney
>> So anyone care to nominate a best SF song? Mine would be "Have You
>> Seen the Stars Tonight?" by Paul Kantner & friends. (The album,
>> "Blows Against the Empire," is credited to Jefferson Starship, but
>> except for Kantner and Slick it's a completely different group than
>> the later Starship.)
>>
>> In poetry, I get a sort of SF/fantasy feel from "Ozymandias," but I
>> concede it's not really SF. There are several classic fantasy poems
>> from the 19th century -- "The Highwayman," "The Lady of Shalott," etc.
>
>My mind goes to "39" by Queen for SF.
And for fantasy, "Don't Fear The Reaper" has to be on the list somewhere just
from sheer widely-knownness. (But then so does "Puff the Magic Dragon".
Possibly with the missing last verses included.)
Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from d...@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
> On Thu, 08 Apr 2010 21:05:45 -0400, Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
> | Lawrence Watt-Evans wrote:
> |> So anyone care to nominate a best SF song? Mine would be "Have You
> |> Seen the Stars Tonight?" by Paul Kantner & friends. (The album,
> |> "Blows Against the Empire," is credited to Jefferson Starship, but
> |> except for Kantner and Slick it's a completely different group than
> |> the later Starship.)
> |
> | Mine would be tied for a lot of different Rush tunes. If I had to pick
> | one, probably "Xanadu" (no, not that one, that was ELO).
>
>
> How about a full album? "Time" by ELO is pretty much the soundtrack to
> an SF movie.
>
If you go the route of concept albums then Rush would have 2112,
Hemispheres, a couple of others. Styx did Kilroy Was here ("Mr.
Roboto"). Several other bands have done a bunch of SF/F related concept
albums.
I was restricting myself to single songs, though.
netcat
@f13g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>, chris.li...@gmail.com says...
>
> On Apr 8, 1:49 pm, Kurt Busiek <k...@busiek.com> wrote:
> > Since Andrew Burt is hoping to entice people off to his website to talk
> > SF, rather than doing it here, I figured I'd co-opt his subject, and
> > throw it open for discussion here, rather than there.
> >
> > What would you say is the best SF novel ever written? The best short
> > story? The best novella? The best anthology?
> >
> >
> > Interpreting "best ever" as "favorite" or as "highest quality" (for
> > those who draw a distinction) is optional.
> >
> > I have no idea what I'd pick. My mind races off in multiple directions
> > -- CITIZEN OF THE GALAXY? THE TIME-TRAVELER'S WIFE? LORD OF THE RINGS?
> > "The Tower of the Elephant?" Something by Dunsany? Zelazny? THE
> > PRINCESS BRIDE?
> >
> > And then it rejects them all as unsuitable, starts to dart off other
> > ways, can't decide where to go and collapses in a bewildered heap.
> >
> > So I'm no help. But I'm interested in what others would pick.
> >
> > --
> > Visithttp://www.busiek.com-- for all your Busiek needs!
>
> Fantasy- LotR
> SF: Tough one. Almost impossible. Dune is right up there, but so are
> Startide Rising and Earth by Brin.
Wow, somebody else who likes _Earth_. I liked it, and happened to read
it at exactly the right time for me, but I'm not sure it deserves best
ever written. I'm not sure _Dune_, which I also read when I was still
young and impressionable, deserves it either, but it is on my list of
"memorable reading experiences" that I'd regret being without.
Incidentally, those two books were the first that I did not read from
cover to cover without stopping. _Earth_ was simply too massive to
finish in one day, but _Dune_ was so heady I had to take a time-out.
rgds,
netcat
netcat
no....@this.address says...
>
> In article <70459536-f34a-4225-a790-cb3e1101bc00
> @z4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>, bill....@taylorandfrancis.com says...
> >
> > On Apr 8, 2:20 pm, Lawrence Watt-Evans <l...@sff.net> wrote:
> > > Last time I was asked this question, I eventually settled on
> Bester's
> > > THE STARS MY DESTINATION for best novel.
> > >
> > > That was about twenty years ago; I'm not sure I'd still agree with my
> > > younger self.
> >
> > adolescent who was so impressed with Vonegut.
> > Although I have nothing against Vonegut and have reread his works with
> > pleasure my seventeen-year-old self is insufferable.
>
> I wouldn't go as far as that w.r.t. my younger self, but tastes
> certainly do change, as do the times and the perspective on certain
> things.
>
> I loved EE Smith when I first read him, now I found the Kinnison saga to
> be populated with cardboard cutouts when I tried to re-read it a few
> years back.
>
>
> "Left Hand of Darkness" - I recently re-read and it moved me the same
> way as when I read it for the first time.
In literary or sociological SF category, I'd vote for that one too.
Definitely one of the best ones, and one of the best written among the
best ones.
rgds,
netcat
netcat
sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com says...
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> What would you say is the best SF novel ever written? The best short
> >>> story? The best novella? The best anthology?
> >> THE STARS MY DESTINATION for best novel.
> >>
> >> That was about twenty years ago; I'm not sure I'd still agree with my
> >> younger self.
> >
> > But could you discuss it civilly? I won't even talk to the imbecile
> > adolescent who was so impressed with Vonegut.
> > Although I have nothing against Vonegut and have reread his works with
> > pleasure my seventeen-year-old self is insufferable.
>
> seventeen year old self except experience, near as I can tell. And
> degenerative aging changes, curse this fragile biological shell!
But experience is what causes the differences in the first place.
rgds,
netcat
netcat
@j21g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>, giles...@googlemail.com says...
>
> On 8 Apr, 21:38, nebu...@-rpi-.edu (Joseph Nebus) wrote:
> > "Mike Schilling" <mscottschill...@hotmail.com> writes:
> > >Lawrence Watt-Evans wrote:
> > >> Last time I was asked this question, I eventually settled on Bester's
> > >> THE STARS MY DESTINATION for best novel.
> >
> > >> That was about twenty years ago; I'm not sure I'd still agree with my
> > >> younger self.
> >
> > I like _The Demolished Man_ better, although I wouldn't say that
> > picking _The Stars My Destination_ would be wrong. Probably. As long as
> > we can agree it's not _The Computer Connection_.
> >
> > Joseph Nebus
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Confession-canonical writers I still haven't read -Alfred
> Bester ,Mervyn Peake
I've read a few of Bester's shorts, but am keeping the good stuff for a
really rainy day.
rgds,
netcat
netcat
september.org>, l...@sff.net says...
>
> So anyone care to nominate a best SF song? Mine would be "Have You
> Seen the Stars Tonight?" by Paul Kantner & friends. (The album,
> "Blows Against the Empire," is credited to Jefferson Starship, but
> except for Kantner and Slick it's a completely different group than
> the later Starship.)
Do you mean overtly SF or, just dealing with SFnal themes, or, just
sounding like it might be SF but really isn't, or sounds like it might
not be, but really is?
Blast it, I've got an entire collection of these, in all categories.
Both songs and lyrics. But I can't remember many off the top of my head.
"39" can serve as the old faithful standby, until I get to my archive.
rgds,
netcat
Anthony Nance
One that usually goes unmentioned is Billy Thorpe's "Children of the Sun".
Not saying it's best (I'm terrible with "best" anything unless I have
criteria to work with), but this one-hit-wonder seems in danger of
being forgotten.
> Mine would be "Have You
> Seen the Stars Tonight?" by Paul Kantner & friends. (The album,
> "Blows Against the Empire," is credited to Jefferson Starship, but
> except for Kantner and Slick it's a completely different group than
> the later Starship.)
>
> In poetry, I get a sort of SF/fantasy feel from "Ozymandias," but I
> concede it's not really SF. There are several classic fantasy poems
> from the 19th century -- "The Highwayman," "The Lady of Shalott," etc.
My favorite would be Tennyson's "Ulysses", and then some Poe (if
horror counts).
Tony
Anthony Nance
> On Thu, 8 Apr 2010 22:56:10 -0700, Kurt Busiek <ku...@busiek.com> wrote:
>>On 2010-04-08 15:36:24 -0700, Lawrence Watt-Evans <l...@sff.net> said:
>>> So anyone care to nominate a best SF song? Mine would be "Have You
>>> Seen the Stars Tonight?" by Paul Kantner & friends. (The album,
>>> "Blows Against the Empire," is credited to Jefferson Starship, but
>>> except for Kantner and Slick it's a completely different group than
>>> the later Starship.)
>>>
>>> In poetry, I get a sort of SF/fantasy feel from "Ozymandias," but I
>>> concede it's not really SF. There are several classic fantasy poems
>>> from the 19th century -- "The Highwayman," "The Lady of Shalott," etc.
>>
>>My mind goes to "39" by Queen for SF.
>
> And for fantasy, "Don't Fear The Reaper" has to be on the list somewhere just
> from sheer widely-knownness. (But then so does "Puff the Magic Dragon".
> Possibly with the missing last verses included.)
And "Sympathy For The Devil"
erilar
Kurt Busiek <ku...@busiek.com> wrote:
>
> What would you say is the best SF novel ever written? The best short
> story? The best novella? The best anthology?
>
> Feel free to lump all spec-fic together or break it into categories.
Well, in my opinion, the best ever broad category(sf/fantasy) is LOTR.
Trying to pick a best ever sf(meaning what I consider sf) is something
that's going to take a lot of thought, I fear 8-)
--
Erilar, biblioholic medievalist
erilar
Jack Tingle <wjti...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Honorable mention: Kirstein, Rosemary, the Steerswoman stories
Yes, I'd go with that. I'm having trouble picking a top choice, though.
erilar
Splicer <nom...@nomail.com> wrote:
> Szymon =?utf-8?Q?Sok=C3=B3=C5=82?= <szy...@bastard.operator.from.hell.pl>
> wrote on 08 Apr 2010:
>
> > For the short story, I am not even going to try.
> >
>
> I vote for "Flowers For Algernon".
It IS one that comes to mind readily.
erilar
d...@gatekeeper.vic.com (David DeLaney) wrote:
> And for fantasy, "Don't Fear The Reaper" has to be on the list somewhere just
> from sheer widely-knownness. (But then so does "Puff the Magic Dragon".
> Possibly with the missing last verses included.)
I don't know the former, but I'll go with Puff 8-)
erilar
<0575bb19-2712-409a...@y14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
Butch Malahide <fred....@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'll nominate "The Deacon's Masterpiect, or The
> Wonderful One-Hoss Shay" by Oliver Wendell Holmes, a Probability Zero
> story in verse.
I compared my previous car to that shay for the last few years of its
life: No even half-way major repairs for 13 years, then everything fell
apart at once 8-)
erilar
"Christopher Adams" <mhacde...@yahoo.invalid> wrote:
> Mike Schilling wrote:
> > Christopher Adams wrote:
> >> lal_truckee wrote:
> >>> Lawrence Watt-Evans wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Last time I was asked this question, I eventually settled on
> >>>> Bester's THE STARS MY DESTINATION for best novel.
> >>>>
> >>>> That was about twenty years ago; I'm not sure I'd still agree with
> >>>> my younger self.
> >>>
> >>> That kid is still correct.
> >>
> >> I haven't yet read THE DEMOLISHED MAN
> >
> > Do. You'll thank everyone who suggested it.
>
> I'm sure I will.
>
> Since TIGER, TIGER! was from my father's collection of SF paperbacks, I
> should mention that I think his submission for the best novel ever written
> would be Theodore Sturgeon's MORE THAN HUMAN.
At the time I read it, I think I'd have nominated the latter. On the
other hand, for a book I've never gotten around to rereading, Demolished
Man sticks in the memory. But I have WAY too many candidates.
erilar
netcat <net...@devnull.eridani.eol.ee> wrote:
> In article <MPG.26290ae53...@news.individual.net>,
> no....@this.address says...
> > "Left Hand of Darkness" - I recently re-read and it moved me the same
> > way as when I read it for the first time.
>
> In literary or sociological SF category, I'd vote for that one too.
> Definitely one of the best ones, and one of the best written among the
> best ones.
That's another that sticks in the mind as really great. Guess I'd
better reread it.
Howard Brazee
ever written was written by the same guy who wrote _Legion of Time_.
--
"In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found,
than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace
to the legislature, and not to the executive department."
- James Madison
Kurt Busiek
<newsp...@andor.dropbear.id.au> said:
> On Thu, 08 Apr 2010 21:05:45 -0400, Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
> <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
> | Lawrence Watt-Evans wrote:
> |> So anyone care to nominate a best SF song? Mine would be "Have You
> |> Seen the Stars Tonight?" by Paul Kantner & friends. (The album,
> |> "Blows Against the Empire," is credited to Jefferson Starship, but
> |> except for Kantner and Slick it's a completely different group than
> |> the later Starship.)
> |
> | Mine would be tied for a lot of different Rush tunes. If I had to pick
> | one, probably "Xanadu" (no, not that one, that was ELO).
>
> How about a full album? "Time" by ELO is pretty much the soundtrack to
> an SF movie.
Rick Wakeman did a few of those, including one based on JOURNEY TO THE
CENTER OF THE EARTH and another, NO EARTHLY CONNECTION, that was a
flat-out SF work.
kdb
--
Visit http://www.busiek.com -- for all your Busiek needs!
Lawrence Watt-Evans
wrote:
>Lawrence Watt-Evans <l...@sff.net> wrote:
>>
>> So anyone care to nominate a best SF song?
>
>One that usually goes unmentioned is Billy Thorpe's "Children of the Sun".
>Not saying it's best (I'm terrible with "best" anything unless I have
>criteria to work with), but this one-hit-wonder seems in danger of
>being forgotten.
Oh, I hope it won't be fogotten, but I can't imagine rating it as the
best.
Has anyone mentioned Neil Young's "After the Gold Rush" yet? Or
Crosby's "Wooden Ships"?
Will in New Haven
> Since Andrew Burt is hoping to entice people off to his website to talk
> SF, rather than doing it here, I figured I'd co-opt his subject, and
> throw it open for discussion here, rather than there.
>
> story? The best novella? The best anthology?
I'm beginning to think (yes, finally, after sixty-five years) that we
ought to have a "normal-length novel" category and a "huge novel or
shortish series" category and a "things as long as or longer than
tLotR" category.
Here are my choices
Short Story: Heinlein - "The Man Who Traveled in Elephants"
Somewhat Longer Thing: Simak - "The Big Front Yard"
Almost a Novel: Anderson - "No Truce with Kings"
Normal Length Novel: Ford - _The Last Hot Time_
Huge Novel or Shortish Series: Bujold - THE SHARING KNIFE
Thigs as Long as or Longer Than tLotR - Tolkien - THE LORD OF THE
RINGS
None of these are certain or firm or without second thoughts. If I had
to choose one from the last three, it would be the Ford, or the
Bujold. Or maybe LotR
--
Will in New Haven
Anthony Nance
Ditto Mike Oldfield's album "The Songs of Distant Earth", based on
the Clarke novel.
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
People seem to be discussing differences in personality, literary
tastes, and so on, which I don't really see in me. My younger self
hadn't learned how to keep from OFFENDING people, but never MEANT to --
so the fact I have (a few) tools to achieve the goal of not offending
doesn't seem to me a significant change in me as a person. Similarly,
the fact that I could tell my younger self he was wrong about certain
things simply comes from having DONE certain things; if I met him I
could tell him, and he'd understand what I was telling him.
Dave Hansen
[...]
> For novel, I'd go with "Soldier of Sidon," but that maybe leans too
> far toward fantasy. "Wasp", maybe, though that might not be long
> enough by modern standards to be a novel -- I just read somewhere that
> "A Case of Conscience" is considered a novella.
Oh, and for Novella, I'd go with "The Mountains of Mourning".
Regards,
-=Dave
Will in New Haven
> So anyone care to nominate a best SF song? Mine would be "Have You
> Seen the Stars Tonight?" by Paul Kantner & friends. (The album,
> "Blows Against the Empire," is credited to Jefferson Starship, but
> except for Kantner and Slick it's a completely different group than
> the later Starship.)
I would pick "Wooden Ships" as performed by Jefferson Airplane. HYStST
is good but there isn't as much music to ride. The songwriters for WS
would be Crosby and Stills and Kantner. "Hyperdrive" would also be a
great choice, another setting for Grace's wonderful voice. Ah, Grace
Slick.
--
Will in New Haven
>
Dorothy J Heydt
Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net> wrote:
>What's amazing to me is that an excellent candidate for best story
>ever written was written by the same guy who wrote _Legion of Time_.
Williamson?
Keep in mind that he had a *long* career. His dates are
1908-2006. _TLoT_ was written in 1938. It's pulpy.
_The Legion of Space_ was written in 1934 and it's pulpy too, but
good. Have you read that one? Do you recognize the cast of
characters?*
Williamson lived and wrote through the pulp era, the Golden Age,
the New Wave, and onward into the beginning of the 1990s. ISFDB
gives a list.
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?Jack_Williamson
Which is your candidate for best story ever by Williamson?
_______
*They're the Four Musketeers.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Should you wish to email me, you'd better use the gmail edress.
Kithrup's all spammy and hotmail's been hacked.
Dorothy J Heydt
erilar <dra...@chibardun.net.invalid> wrote:
>In article
><0575bb19-2712-409a...@y14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
> Butch Malahide <fred....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I'll nominate "The Deacon's Masterpiect, or The
>> Wonderful One-Hoss Shay" by Oliver Wendell Holmes, a Probability Zero
>> story in verse.
>
>I compared my previous car to that shay for the last few years of its
>life: No even half-way major repairs for 13 years, then everything fell
>apart at once 8-)
Heh. I could easily compare it to myself.
Dorothy J Heydt
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
> People seem to be discussing differences in personality, literary
>tastes, and so on, which I don't really see in me. My younger self
>hadn't learned how to keep from OFFENDING people, but never MEANT to --
>so the fact I have (a few) tools to achieve the goal of not offending
>doesn't seem to me a significant change in me as a person. Similarly,
>the fact that I could tell my younger self he was wrong about certain
>things simply comes from having DONE certain things; if I met him I
>could tell him, and he'd understand what I was telling him.
Ya think?
Your younger self was probably told that he was wrong about
various things by his parents/teachers/whoever he had in the way
of elders. Did he listen? I didn't listen to mine.
There are probably already several stories written, not to
mention a plethora of others that could be written, about the guy
who acquires the time machine and goes back to tell his younger
self what to do and not to do. And younger self tells him to go
screw himself, *he* knows better than some old fogey.
Manly Wade Wellman wrote a short-short about how Silver John's
older self comes back in time to warn him about preventing a
disastrous future, and John listens to him. But then he's Silver
John.
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
> In article <hpni0k$4fl$2...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>
>> People seem to be discussing differences in personality, literary
>> tastes, and so on, which I don't really see in me. My younger self
>> hadn't learned how to keep from OFFENDING people, but never MEANT to --
>> so the fact I have (a few) tools to achieve the goal of not offending
>> doesn't seem to me a significant change in me as a person. Similarly,
>> the fact that I could tell my younger self he was wrong about certain
>> things simply comes from having DONE certain things; if I met him I
>> could tell him, and he'd understand what I was telling him.
>
> Ya think?
>
> Your younger self was probably told that he was wrong about
> various things by his parents/teachers/whoever he had in the way
> of elders. Did he listen? I didn't listen to mine.
I listened to them if I thought they had reason to know something I
didn't. My parents, virtually always. DOING what they told me to do was
sometimes hard, but not because I didn't believe them, or know they
meant what they said, but because I was (and remain) very lazy.
In this case, it's me talking to me, so I would have reason to believe
that Me-older even understood the viewpoint from which Me-younger was
seeing the situation.
So yes, I do think.
Mike Schilling
>> Since Andrew Burt is hoping to entice people off to his website to
>> talk SF, rather than doing it here, I figured I'd co-opt his
>> subject, and throw it open for discussion here, rather than there.
>>
>> What would you say is the best SF novel ever written? The best short
>> story? The best novella? The best anthology?
>
> I'm beginning to think (yes, finally, after sixty-five years) that we
> ought to have a "normal-length novel" category and a "huge novel or
> shortish series" category and a "things as long as or longer than
> tLotR" category.
>
> Here are my choices
>
> Short Story: Heinlein - "The Man Who Traveled in Elephants"
> Somewhat Longer Thing: Simak - "The Big Front Yard"
> Almost a Novel: Anderson - "No Truce with Kings"
> Normal Length Novel: Ford - _The Last Hot Time_
> Huge Novel or Shortish Series: Bujold - THE SHARING KNIFE
> Thigs as Long as or Longer Than tLotR - Tolkien - THE LORD OF THE
> RINGS
Don't the four volumes of The Sharing Knife together exceed LOTR?
Will in New Haven
wrote:
I don't _remember_ them being that long. They certainly read fairly
quickly. If I had to choose between them, I would pick LotR. Probably.
Maybe we don't need the middle-sized category.
Anthony Nance
> On 9 Apr 2010 13:22:30 GMT, na...@math.ohio-state.edu (Anthony Nance)
> wrote:
>
>>Lawrence Watt-Evans <l...@sff.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> So anyone care to nominate a best SF song?
>>
>>One that usually goes unmentioned is Billy Thorpe's "Children of the Sun".
>>Not saying it's best (I'm terrible with "best" anything unless I have
>>criteria to work with), but this one-hit-wonder seems in danger of
>>being forgotten.
>
> Oh, I hope it won't be fogotten, but I can't imagine rating it as the
> best.
Agreed.
> Has anyone mentioned Neil Young's "After the Gold Rush" yet? Or
> Crosby's "Wooden Ships"?
Not that I've seen, but -- though I enjoy them as well -- I can't
imagine rating those as the best, either. Ditto "Godzilla" and
"Flash!", which I don't think have been mentioned either.
Default User
"Paul Arthur" <flower...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:slrnhrtaee.ell...@shasta.marwnad.com...
> On 2010-04-09, Lawrence Watt-Evans <l...@sff.net> wrote:
>> On Thu, 8 Apr 2010 16:28:59 -0700 (PDT), Moriarty
>><blu...@ivillage.com> wrote:
>>
>>>I'll go with:
>>>
>>>Novel: _LOTR_. Honourable mentions to: _The Last Continent_ or _Soul
>>>Music_ by Sir PTerry, HHGTTG by Douglas Adams, Alistair Reynolds
>>>_House of Suns_ and Zelazny's _Lord of Light_.
>>
>> _The Last Continent_? Really? I consider that one of the three
>> weakest Discworld novels.
>>
>> If I went with Pratchett, _Soul Music_ is a good choice, but I might
>> go for _Wyrd Sisters_, or one of the Vimes novels.
>
> _Soul Music_? Really? I consider that one of the three weakest
> Discworld novels.
>
> If I went with Pratchett, _Small Gods_ is a good choice, but I'd
> probably go for _Night Watch_.
And I didn't like Small Gods much at all. Soul Music I liked a lot. On the
whole, I didn't care much for the Witches books. That's the nice thing about
the series, there are many different books that can appeal to a variety of
tastes.
Brian
Richard R. Hershberger
> >> On Thu, 8 Apr 2010 10:49:01 -0700, Kurt Busiek <k...@busiek.com>
> >> wrote:
>
> >>> story? The best novella? The best anthology?
> >> Last time I was asked this question, I eventually settled on Bester's
> >> THE STARS MY DESTINATION for best novel.
>
> >> That was about twenty years ago; I'm not sure I'd still agree with my
> >> younger self.
>
> > But could you discuss it civilly? I won't even talk to the imbecile
> > adolescent who was so impressed with Vonegut.
> > Although I have nothing against Vonegut and have reread his works with
> > pleasure my seventeen-year-old self is insufferable.
>
> There's little difference between my forty-seven year old self and my
> seventeen year old self except experience, near as I can tell. And
> degenerative aging changes, curse this fragile biological shell!
Heh. You and I are the same age. My seventeen year old self adored
Heinlein, gobbled up everything Heinlein wrote and read and re-read
his favorites (especially Moon is a Harsh Mistress).
Forty-seven year old self finds Heinlein virtually unreadable. Last
summer I tried to re-read The Man Who Bought the Moon. I bounced hard
off it, in part because the protagonist is such a raging asshole. I
understand and appreciate the idea of an anti-hero, but that only
works if the author intends him to be an anti-hero. If the sense is
that the asshole qualities are being held up as exemplary, it doesn't
work so well for me.
On the other hand, seventeen me and forty-seven me both think Tolkien
is the bee's knees, so we do have something to talk about.
Richard R. Hershberger
Richard R. Hershberger
wrote:
> Christopher Adams wrote:
> > Mike Schilling wrote:
> >> Christopher Adams wrote:
> >>> lal_truckee wrote:
> >>>> Lawrence Watt-Evans wrote:
>
> >>>>> Bester's THE STARS MY DESTINATION for best novel.
>
> >>>>> That was about twenty years ago; I'm not sure I'd still agree with
> >>>>> my younger self.
>
>
> >>> I haven't yet read THE DEMOLISHED MAN
>
> >> Do. You'll thank everyone who suggested it.
>
> > I'm sure I will.
>
> > Since TIGER, TIGER! was from my father's collection of SF paperbacks,
> > I should mention that I think his submission for the best novel ever
> > written would be Theodore Sturgeon's MORE THAN HUMAN.
>
> besides a raft of great stories, it includes both TDM and MTH. In fact, if
> we're voting for best anthology ever, that's got my vote. Well, tied with
> Boucher's Treasury.
Even better than The Last Dangerous Visions?
Will in New Haven
What universe was that written in?
--
Will in New Haven
I bounced hard
> off it, in part because the protagonist is such a raging asshole. I
> understand and appreciate the idea of an anti-hero, but that only
> works if the author intends him to be an anti-hero. If the sense is
> that the asshole qualities are being held up as exemplary, it doesn't
> work so well for me.
>
> On the other hand, seventeen me and forty-seven me both think Tolkien
> is the bee's knees, so we do have something to talk about.
>
> Richard R. Hershberger- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
And this is the kind of thing I find incomprehensible. Stuff I enjoyed
at 17 I still enjoy now. I'm trying to think of something I really liked
at 17 that I DON'T like now. Peanut butter and Kool-Aid, I guess. Too
sweet for my aged tastebuds. Plus my stomach hates me now and if I eat
peanut butter past about 5pm, it takes its revenge throughout the night.
Richard R. Hershberger
> On Apr 8, 5:36 pm, Lawrence Watt-Evans <l...@sff.net> wrote:
>
> > So anyone care to nominate a best SF song? Mine would be "Have You
> > Seen the Stars Tonight?" by Paul Kantner & friends.
>
> "The Purple People Eater."
> "The Thing."
> ("The Little Blue Man" is too dark and grim for my taste: a woman,
> maddened by her stalker, tries to kill him.)
>
> > In poetry, I get a sort of SF/fantasy feel from "Ozymandias," but I
> > concede it's not really SF. There are several classic fantasy poems
> > from the 19th century -- "The Highwayman," "The Lady of Shalott," etc.
>
> Hall", and from Coleridge's "Kubla Khan" and "The Rime of the Ancient
> Mariner"; but I'll nominate "The Deacon's Masterpiect, or The
> Wonderful One-Hoss Shay" by Oliver Wendell Holmes, a Probability Zero
> story in verse.
If we are allowed Victorian quasi-fantasy, my personal favorite is
William Morris's "The Defense of Guinevere". It is solidly Arthurian,
but not the fantasy-ish sort. It is Guinevere pleading her case
against the charge of adultery, quite marvelously.
Richard R. Hershberger
Mike Schilling
> On Apr 9, 3:04 pm, "Richard R. Hershberger" <rrhe...@acme.com> wrote:
>>
>> Forty-seven year old self finds Heinlein virtually unreadable. Last
>> summer I tried to re-read The Man Who Bought the Moon.
>
> What universe was that written in?
Bizzaro world, I presume. Another favoite there: The Sun is a Soft
Catamite.
Mike Schilling
Science fiction, not fantasy.