Quantum Vibe

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Larry

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Jan 4, 2012, 9:53:28 AM1/4/12
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Since GG is not going to accept a Hugo nomination this year, I have been
casting around for an alternative. I have found Quantum Vibe to be a pretty
engaging space opera. Check it out at

http://www.quantumvibe.com/strip?page=1

No color but clean art, and it updates five times a week.

William F. Adams

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Jan 4, 2012, 10:22:41 AM1/4/12
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Neat!

I'm rather partial to Freefall myself:

http://freefall.purrsia.com/ff100/fv00001.htm

William

Paul Ciszek

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Jan 4, 2012, 10:32:36 AM1/4/12
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In article <MPG.296e07c84...@news.aioe.org>,
The whole "heroine gets drunk and sleeps around" storyline is wearing
thin for me.

--
"Remember when teachers, public employees, Planned Parenthood, NPR and PBS
crashed the stock market, wiped out half of our 401Ks, took trillions in
TARP money, spilled oil in the Gulf of Mexico, gave themselves billions in
bonuses, and paid no taxes? Yeah, me neither."

Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)

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Jan 4, 2012, 11:12:31 AM1/4/12
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On the SF side I like Schlock Mercenary
(http://www.schlockmercenary.com) -- Howard's been nominated a couple of
times but hasn't won.

Fantasy-wise I would DEFINITELY DEFINITELY nominate Namesake
(www.namesakecomic.com). This is in fact my current favorite webcomic,
bar none, including Girl Genius. It's the only one that I feel actual
frustration at the slowness of its updating... when it's updating three
times a week.


--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Website: http://www.grandcentralarena.com Blog:
http://seawasp.livejournal.com

Dorothy J Heydt

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Jan 4, 2012, 11:52:10 AM1/4/12
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Oh yes.

And the guy knows his science background.

Consider this recent panel, in which the heroine is trying to get
a nosy journo off the track of what she and her boss are REALLY
doing:

http://www.quantumvibe.com/strip?page=265

Hannes Alfven and Oskar Klein were real physicists. As to
Kravinoor Awashina, we have two choices:

(a) Scott Bleser invented him as part of the backstory, or

(b) Nicole made him up to confuse the hell out of Claud.

My money's on (b).

Most of the webcomics I read update by 9 or 9:30 Pacific time.
QV updates at 10 or a little later. Cuts into my sleep.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Should you wish to email me, you'd better use the gmail edress.
Kithrup's all spammy and hotmail's been hacked.

Edward A. Falk

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Jan 4, 2012, 3:01:59 PM1/4/12
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In article <78d3df57-9428-453d...@z1g2000vbx.googlegroups.com>,
William F. Adams <will...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>I'm rather partial to Freefall myself:
>
>http://freefall.purrsia.com/ff100/fv00001.htm

My favorite of them all. Well, after GG anyway.

"Ahh, what a great day to be alive. I've got a clear road ahead of
me, an angry mob behind me, and a working spaceship to escape in."

http://freefall.purrsia.com/ff900/fv00833.htm

--
-Ed Falk, fa...@despams.r.us.com
http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/

Paul Ciszek

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Jan 4, 2012, 4:21:54 PM1/4/12
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In article <je1tpf$f2m$2...@dont-email.me>,
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>On 1/4/12 9:53 AM, Larry wrote:
>> Since GG is not going to accept a Hugo nomination this year, I have been
>> casting around for an alternative. I have found Quantum Vibe to be a pretty
>> engaging space opera. Check it out at
>>
>> http://www.quantumvibe.com/strip?page=1
>>
>> No color but clean art, and it updates five times a week.
>
> On the SF side I like Schlock Mercenary
>(http://www.schlockmercenary.com) -- Howard's been nominated a couple of
>times but hasn't won.

Let me second Schlock Mercenary. It is a delightful combination of
character-driven story lines and space opera done right, and the range
of classic SF topics they make use of is very broad. When they do
resort to technobabble, it is more plausible and consistant than most
of the Trek offerings, sad to say.

Alan Baker

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Jan 4, 2012, 5:38:59 PM1/4/12
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In article
<78d3df57-9428-453d...@z1g2000vbx.googlegroups.com>,
"William F. Adams" <will...@aol.com> wrote:

I like it to... ...but is it just me, or do webcomics seem to lose the
thread of their own plot after a while?

--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
"If you raise the ceiling four feet, move the fireplace from that wall
to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect if you
sit in the bottom of that cupboard."

Gene Wirchenko

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Jan 4, 2012, 8:44:46 PM1/4/12
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On Wed, 04 Jan 2012 11:12:31 -0500, "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)"
<sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:

[snip]

> On the SF side I like Schlock Mercenary
>(http://www.schlockmercenary.com) -- Howard's been nominated a couple of
>times but hasn't won.
>
> Fantasy-wise I would DEFINITELY DEFINITELY nominate Namesake
>(www.namesakecomic.com). This is in fact my current favorite webcomic,
>bar none, including Girl Genius. It's the only one that I feel actual
>frustration at the slowness of its updating... when it's updating three
>times a week.

I *really* appreciate you mentioning this one a while back. Same
thing about the slowness. All hail the evil Isameg!

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

Dorothy J Heydt

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Jan 4, 2012, 9:41:07 PM1/4/12
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In article <alangbaker-2E2DD...@news.shawcable.net>,
Alan Baker <alang...@telus.net> wrote:
>In article
><78d3df57-9428-453d...@z1g2000vbx.googlegroups.com>,
> "William F. Adams" <will...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>> On Jan 4, 9:53 am, Larry <lar...@peaksky.com> wrote:
>> > Since GG is not going to accept a Hugo nomination this year, I have been
>> > casting around for an alternative. I have found Quantum Vibe to be a pretty
>> > engaging space opera. Check it out at
>> >
>> > http://www.quantumvibe.com/strip?page=1
>> >
>> > No color but clean art, and it updates five times a week.
>>
>> Neat!
>>
>> I'm rather partial to Freefall myself:
>>
>> http://freefall.purrsia.com/ff100/fv00001.htm
>>
>> William
>
>I like it to... ...but is it just me, or do webcomics seem to lose the
>thread of their own plot after a while?
>
The plot of QV runs deep. It has digressions, like Malory.
They'll get back on track, I'm sure, once Nicole has THOROUGHLY
befuddled Claud and Seamus has stabilized a bit.

Konrad Gaertner

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Jan 4, 2012, 10:52:07 PM1/4/12
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Larry wrote:
>
> Since GG is not going to accept a Hugo nomination this year, I have been
> casting around for an alternative.

GG is my favorite comic ever (web or print), but I don't think it was
right for them to get more than one Hugo. (I also don't think Locus
should get more than one.)

Three webcomics I read ended in 2011, so this is their last chance:

Digger
http://www.diggercomic.com/?p=3
"A wombat. A dead god. A very peculiar epic."
This would definitely go on my ballot (if I ever nominated anything).

The Phoenix Requiem
http://requiem.seraph-inn.com/archives.html
Victorian-ish fantasy about plague and religion.

Crimson Dark
http://www.davidcsimon.com/crimsondark/index.php?view=archive
Political MilSF. I had trouble following all the politics, but
that may have been due to reading it as it updated.


Some other webcomics I particularly like:

Darths & Droids
http://www.darthsanddroids.net/archive1.html
Star Wars viewed as a role-playing game. In 2011 they finished
retelling the prequels.

Family Man
http://www.lutherlevy.com/?page_id=170
Academia and theology in 18th century Europe. May also contain
werewolves.

Freefall
http://freefall.purrsia.com/fcdex.htm
Science fiction about AIs.

Galaxion
http://galaxioncomics.com/wordpress/?page_id=3
"Life. Love. Hyperspace."

Genocide Man
http://www.genocideman.com/?p=40
Near future science fiction, probably a dystopia.

A Girl and Her Fed
http://www.agirlandherfed.com/main?i=1&p=archives
Urban fantasy about cyborgs and civil liberties.

Interstellar Tea House
http://chaogaogong.livejournal.com/698.html
Cute science fiction about kids, some of them human.

The Meek
http://www.meekcomic.com/archives/
Fantasy story involving nudity, violent politics, and book thieves.

Spacetrawler
http://spacetrawler.com/2010/01/01/spacetrawler-4/
Slap-stick space opera with surprisingly good writing. Several
named characters die in 2011.


--
Konrad Gaertner - - - - - - - - - - - - email: kgae...@tx.rr.com
http://kgbooklog.livejournal.com/
"I don't mind hidden depths but I insist that there be a surface."
-- James Nicoll

Jaimie Vandenbergh

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Jan 4, 2012, 11:14:19 PM1/4/12
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On Wed, 04 Jan 2012 21:52:07 -0600, Konrad Gaertner
<kgae...@tx.rr.com> wrote:

>Larry wrote:
>>
>> Since GG is not going to accept a Hugo nomination this year, I have been
>> casting around for an alternative.
>
>GG is my favorite comic ever (web or print), but I don't think it was
>right for them to get more than one Hugo. (I also don't think Locus
>should get more than one.)

[snip excellent list]

I am disheartened that no-one has mentioned Gunnerkrigg Court yet. So
I will. http://www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=1
The protagonist gets less stylised rapidly.

The barely describable "Dresden Codak"
http://dresdencodak.com/archives/

"God hates astronauts", a really strung out superhero comic that
reminds me of a gung-ho Flaming Carrot strip:
http://www.godhatesastronauts.com/

"Scenes from A Multiverse", http://amultiverse.com/ . Not much story
to that, but there is a sort of build up of lore and repeat visits. By
the guy who did goats, but totally different.

Cheers - Jaimie
--
"... you must remember that if you're trying to propagate a creed of
poverty, gentleness and tolerance, you need a very rich, powerful,
authoritarian organisation to do it." - Vice-Pope Eric

Andrew Plotkin

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Jan 4, 2012, 11:56:11 PM1/4/12
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Here, Konrad Gaertner <kgae...@tx.rr.com> wrote:
> Larry wrote:
> >
> > Since GG is not going to accept a Hugo nomination this year, I have been
> > casting around for an alternative.
>
> GG is my favorite comic ever (web or print), but I don't think it was
> right for them to get more than one Hugo. (I also don't think Locus
> should get more than one.)

I have a floating recommend on for _Dicebox_: http://dicebox.net/
The world-building is understated but very solid.

--Z

--
"And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the borogoves..."
*

Brian M. Scott

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Jan 5, 2012, 7:15:48 AM1/5/12
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On Wed, 04 Jan 2012 21:52:07 -0600, Konrad Gaertner
<kgae...@tx.rr.com> wrote in
<news:4F051E67...@tx.rr.com> in rec.arts.sf.written:

> Larry wrote:

>> Since GG is not going to accept a Hugo nomination this
>> year, I have been casting around for an alternative.

> GG is my favorite comic ever (web or print), but I don't
> think it was right for them to get more than one Hugo.
> (I also don't think Locus should get more than one.)

> Three webcomics I read ended in 2011, so this is their
> last chance:

> Digger
> http://www.diggercomic.com/?p=3
> "A wombat. A dead god. A very peculiar epic."
> This would definitely go on my ballot (if I ever nominated
> anything).

I rarely read comics, on paper or on the web, but after four
chapters I'm probably in for the duration; Ursula is bloody
brilliant.

[...]

Brian

Brian M. Scott

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Jan 5, 2012, 7:18:35 AM1/5/12
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On Thu, 05 Jan 2012 04:14:19 +0000, Jaimie Vandenbergh
<jai...@sometimes.sessile.org> wrote in
<news:2r7ag75l75t62q7ds...@4ax.com> in
rec.arts.sf.written:

[...]

> I am disheartened that no-one has mentioned Gunnerkrigg
> Court yet. So I will.

> http://www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=1

Thanks for the reminder; I keep meaning to get back to that
one. Though not, I think, before I make it through
'Digger'.

[...]

Brian

Jaimie Vandenbergh

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Jan 5, 2012, 9:55:50 AM1/5/12
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Good call. I picked up the books in the Christmas sale ($15 each) and
keep meaning to do a paper-based reread.

Ursula Vernon has a very excellent LJ, chatting about art and comics
and gardens and so on, with occasional snippets of writing -
http://ursulav.livejournal.com/1472097.html for a sample.

Cheers - Jaimie
--
To predict the behavior of ordinary people in advance, you only have to
assume that they will always try to escape a disagreeable situation with
the smallest possible expenditure of intelligence. -- Nietzsche

Derek Lyons

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Jan 5, 2012, 10:01:02 AM1/5/12
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But despite frequent updates, the plot advances with glacial speed.
So far it's *just* interesting enough to keep in my feed, but only
just.

At that, it's better than another that I just dumped which has spent a
year covering barely five hours... I think the author got more caught
up in his back story and forgot he's telling the front story
altogether. QV verges on that as well.

D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/

-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL

Dorothy J Heydt

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Jan 5, 2012, 11:05:48 AM1/5/12
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In article <4f05ba96....@news.supernews.com>,
Derek Lyons <fair...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Larry <lar...@peaksky.com> wrote:
>
>>Since GG is not going to accept a Hugo nomination this year, I have been
>>casting around for an alternative. I have found Quantum Vibe to be a pretty
>>engaging space opera. Check it out at
>>
>>http://www.quantumvibe.com/strip?page=1
>>
>>No color but clean art, and it updates five times a week.
>
>But despite frequent updates, the plot advances with glacial speed.
>So far it's *just* interesting enough to keep in my feed, but only
>just.

Well, mileages differ. I stay up till ten PM to see tomorrow's
QV, when I would be better off going to bed at nine or earlier.
I am fascinated by it. You are less so. If everybody liked the
same things, what an oatmeal shortage there would be.

>At that, it's better than another that I just dumped which has spent a
>year covering barely five hours... I think the author got more caught
>up in his back story and forgot he's telling the front story
>altogether. QV verges on that as well.

Which strip is this?

Do you mean Schlock Mercenary, which is in the process of doing a
HUMONGOUS retcon, the scope of which I cannot even guess at, by
telling all the main characters that their memories were forcibly
altered a while back and must now be put back?

But I'm still reading it.

Webcomics I've given up on include PvP, Gunnerkrigg, Sluggy
Freelance, PS 238, and probably some others that I have forgotten
entirely.

And I took a quick look at Namesake, got as far as the first
murder (about twenty pages in, IIRC), and said, "No, this is
not my cup of tea."

Jaimie Vandenbergh

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Jan 5, 2012, 11:56:32 AM1/5/12
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On Thu, 5 Jan 2012 16:05:48 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
wrote:

>Do you mean Schlock Mercenary, which is in the process of doing a
>HUMONGOUS retcon, the scope of which I cannot even guess at, by
>telling all the main characters that their memories were forcibly
>altered a while back and must now be put back?

We (and Schlock's spare eye tissue) saw the real events. The
characters are getting their memories reverted to base reality, from
the UN whitewash version. That's not a retcon.

Cheers - Jaimie
--
Actually, the Singularity seems rather useful in the entire work avoidance
field. "I _could_ write up that report now but if I put it off, I may well
become a weakly godlike entity, at which point not only will I be able to
type faster but my comments will be more on-target." - James Nicoll

Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)

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Jan 5, 2012, 1:01:39 PM1/5/12
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No retcon. We saw the original events as they happened.

> But I'm still reading it.
>
> Webcomics I've given up on include PvP, Gunnerkrigg, Sluggy
> Freelance, PS 238, and probably some others that I have forgotten
> entirely.
>
> And I took a quick look at Namesake, got as far as the first
> murder (about twenty pages in, IIRC), and said, "No, this is
> not my cup of tea."

If you can't handle the bad guys killing people and doing bad things,
no, definitely not.

Greg Goss

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Jan 5, 2012, 1:02:58 PM1/5/12
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Konrad Gaertner <kgae...@tx.rr.com> wrote:

>Larry wrote:
>>
>> Since GG is not going to accept a Hugo nomination this year, I have been
>> casting around for an alternative.
>
>GG is my favorite comic ever (web or print), but I don't think it was
>right for them to get more than one Hugo. (I also don't think Locus
>should get more than one.)

The award is for the best work in the given year. The comic is
written in each of the years it has won. How come Heinlein can win
for each of several year's books but they shouldn't? It is reasonable
for them to renounce future awards if they agree with you, but I think
that they should be eligible unless pre-renounced.
--
"Recessions catch what the auditors miss." (Galbraith)

Dorothy J Heydt

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Jan 5, 2012, 1:07:05 PM1/5/12
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In article <9mm6ut...@mid.individual.net>,
Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote:
>Konrad Gaertner <kgae...@tx.rr.com> wrote:
>
>>Larry wrote:
>>>
>>> Since GG is not going to accept a Hugo nomination this year, I have been
>>> casting around for an alternative.
>>
>>GG is my favorite comic ever (web or print), but I don't think it was
>>right for them to get more than one Hugo. (I also don't think Locus
>>should get more than one.)
>
>The award is for the best work in the given year. The comic is
>written in each of the years it has won. How come Heinlein can win
>for each of several year's books but they shouldn't?

Well, the Heinlein books were separate works, not segments of a
single work (despite the "Future History" thing). A webcomic is
an ongoing process.

David Dyer-Bennet

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Jan 5, 2012, 2:24:50 PM1/5/12
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I certainly have mixed feelings about people withdrawing because they've
won enough. The concept of an award for "best professional artist not
named Michael Whelan" doesn't sound like that great an honor.

The Foglio's reasoning is specific to the category being new, and I
don't remember it as being permanent, either. It may well be the best
choice for the field and for the award at this point.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, dd...@dd-b.net; http://dd-b.net/
Snapshots: http://dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/data/
Photos: http://dd-b.net/photography/gallery/
Dragaera: http://dragaera.info

Remus Shepherd

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Jan 5, 2012, 2:51:36 PM1/5/12
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Konrad Gaertner <kgae...@tx.rr.com> wrote:
> Digger
> http://www.diggercomic.com/?p=3
> "A wombat. A dead god. A very peculiar epic."
> This would definitely go on my ballot (if I ever nominated anything).

I bought the Digger print books, just to study how the artist did their
fantastic blending of darkness and light. An excellent story. Not sure it's
what I'd want in a Hugo nominee, however.

> Some other webcomics I particularly like:

> Genocide Man
> http://www.genocideman.com/?p=40
> Near future science fiction, probably a dystopia.

Glad you're enjoying it, Konrad! :)

(For reference, I don't consider Genocide Man to be Hugo-worthy, either.
Maybe my art will be good enough by book 3.)

My pick for Hugo would be the print comic Fables by Bill Willingham.
It's been nominated before but hasn't won because of GG.

A dark horse for nomination might be _The Goon: Death's Greedy Comeuppance_
by Eric Powell. It is a collection from the Goon comic series, but also
contains the miniseries involving the Goon's ally, the Buzzard. Powell is
doing some awesome stuff, and he deserves awards and attention. The Buzzard
miniseries is without question the best graphic novel I read in 2011.

... ...
Remus Shepherd <re...@panix.com>
New Webcomic: Genocide Man http://www.genocideman.com/
Life is funny. Death is funnier. Mass slaughter can be hilarious.

Wayne Throop

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Jan 5, 2012, 3:36:26 PM1/5/12
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: djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
: Do you mean Schlock Mercenary, which is in the process of doing a
: HUMONGOUS retcon, the scope of which I cannot even guess at, by
: telling all the main characters that their memories were forcibly
: altered a while back and must now be put back?

But... but... that's not a retcon. We as areaders have always been
aware of the fact that their memories are false, and we know the
true events that they are being told about. In particular, finding
out about the extreme nanite stuff follows what was shown in the strips,
not what memories were manufactured.

And the scope is, whatever was needed to cover up the illegal
activities of general whoziz and the various corrupt memebers
of the military/industrial complex. Again, for the most part
centered around the hyper-advanced nanites.

: Webcomics I've given up on include PvP, Gunnerkrigg, Sluggy Freelance,
: PS 238, and probably some others that I have forgotten entirely.

Hm. Can you explain a bit why Gunnerkrigg lost interest for you? I
find lots of the background mysteries are slowly being revealed, in ways
that make for interesting stories. For example, I found "Skywatcher and
the Angel" and "The Coward Heart" (and the immediately following "Fire
Spike" and "From the Forrest She Came") to be effective. SatA and
tCH revealing much about Jeanne, and FS and FtFSC revealing much
about Antimony's heritage.

"The angel turned to her friend for comfort, and it was a long
time before she spoke. When she did speak, she told us our
esteemed creator, Diego, was not a nice man. She also said,
"Love makes you act in strange ways." We have our finest
minds analyzing her words."
--- from "Skywatcher and the Angel"

"She died and we did nothing."
--- common robot saying upon hearing
Jeanne's name, much like
"Doggy!" when robots see Florence

"What remained of my spirit, my anger, my hate, was forged,
white hot, in the the sentinel of these waters. Coddled child
of that damned place, you come here to mock me with this
gleaming heart of yours..."
--- Jeanne, in "The Coward Heart"3

"Suddenly I am wearing a party hat."
--- Ms Jones, epilogue to "The Coward Heart"

( Subsequently, partly in response to events in tCH, Parley combines
teleportation into her swordfighting style... a very nifty scene. )

http://www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=962
"I am sorry miss, but the longsword is a heavier and slower weapon."
"Well the sword may be, but *I'm* not!"

( And finding out what disease Surma died of in Fire Spike
was... hm... wrenching. And the recent troubling hints of
a new robot religion slowly developing from events in SatA
is... hm... foreboding. With the Court, it's always wheels
within wheels. )

( And how can you not like the Laser Cows?
They're like cows. With lasers! Ah well. No accounting for
taste, as the forrester said while watching the Laser Cows mow grass. )

So all in all... it's certainly holding my interest.
Indeed, aside from GG, I think it's my current favorite webcomic.
In some respects better than GG, IMO.

David Goldfarb

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Jan 5, 2012, 5:03:32 PM1/5/12
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In article <13257...@sheol.org>, Wayne Throop <thr...@sheol.org> wrote:
>: djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
>: Webcomics I've given up on include PvP, Gunnerkrigg, Sluggy Freelance,
>: PS 238, and probably some others that I have forgotten entirely.
>
>Hm. Can you explain a bit why Gunnerkrigg lost interest for you?

For my part, I started reading through the Gunnerkrigg archives and
it didn't so much lose my interest as never quite manage to engage it.
There never seemed to be any characters I could really care about.

The one I boggle at is PS 238. How can anyone not love PS 238?
(I read it in the paper comic format, though; it's possible it's
not suited to a page-every-couple-of-days webcomic format.)

--
David Goldfarb |
goldf...@gmail.com | "It's flabby and delicious."
gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu |

Dorothy J Heydt

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Jan 5, 2012, 6:50:23 PM1/5/12
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In article <13257...@sheol.org>, Wayne Throop <thr...@sheol.org> wrote:
>: djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
>
>: Webcomics I've given up on include PvP, Gunnerkrigg, Sluggy Freelance,
>: PS 238, and probably some others that I have forgotten entirely.
>
>Hm. Can you explain a bit why Gunnerkrigg lost interest for you?

Hard to say. I quit it after about the fourth volume and I don't
remember many details now. It got grim and it didn't seem to be
going anywhere.

>
>( And how can you not like the Laser Cows?

I think I may have quit before they appeared.

>So all in all... it's certainly holding my interest.

Fine. You read it. I have plenty of others that I like.

Dorothy J Heydt

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Jan 5, 2012, 6:51:28 PM1/5/12
to
In article <LxCIL...@kithrup.com>,
David Goldfarb <goldf...@gmail.com> wrote:
>In article <13257...@sheol.org>, Wayne Throop <thr...@sheol.org> wrote:
>>: djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
>>: Webcomics I've given up on include PvP, Gunnerkrigg, Sluggy Freelance,
>>: PS 238, and probably some others that I have forgotten entirely.
>
>The one I boggle at is PS 238. How can anyone not love PS 238?
>(I read it in the paper comic format, though; it's possible it's
>not suited to a page-every-couple-of-days webcomic format.)

I liked the first several episodes, through Last Vegas. After
that (I'm going to sound like a broken record) it started to get
grim and I never did go for grimth.

Howard Brazee

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Jan 5, 2012, 7:25:41 PM1/5/12
to
On Thu, 05 Jan 2012 13:24:50 -0600, David Dyer-Bennet <dd...@dd-b.net>
wrote:

>I certainly have mixed feelings about people withdrawing because they've
>won enough. The concept of an award for "best professional artist not
>named Michael Whelan" doesn't sound like that great an honor.

No. But there have been awards to "The best baseball player who
happens to be white" - not to mention other subgroups such as college
players or women.

--
"In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found,
than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace
to the legislature, and not to the executive department."

- James Madison

Joy Beeson

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Jan 5, 2012, 8:44:22 PM1/5/12
to
On Thu, 05 Jan 2012 20:36:26 GMT, thr...@sheol.org (Wayne Throop)
wrote:

> Again, for the most part
> centered around the hyper-advanced nanites.

And those hyper-advanced nanites -- and the murders to cover up their
existence -- go all the way back to the introduction: the first
victim appears in the second strip.

I know Taylor is writing this one page and one arc at a time, but he
sure makes it look like a pre-meditated cohesive whole.

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://roughsewing.home.comcast.net/
The above message is a Usenet post.
I don't recall having given anyone permission to use it on a Web site.

Robert Carnegie

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Jan 5, 2012, 8:44:25 PM1/5/12
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On Jan 5, 11:51 pm, djhe...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
> In article <LxCILw.1...@kithrup.com>,
>
> David Goldfarb <goldfar...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >In article <1325795...@sheol.org>, Wayne Throop <thro...@sheol.org> wrote:
> >>: djhe...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
> >>: Webcomics I've given up on include PvP, Gunnerkrigg, Sluggy Freelance,
> >>: PS 238, and probably some others that I have forgotten entirely.
>
> >The one I boggle at is PS 238.  How can anyone not love PS 238?
> >(I read it in the paper comic format, though; it's possible it's
> >not suited to a page-every-couple-of-days webcomic format.)
>
> I liked the first several episodes, through Last Vegas.  After
> that (I'm going to sound like a broken record) it started to get
> grim and I never did go for grimth.

Hmm. Well... the aliens are gone, so's Charles... kind'a... Captain
Clarinet is attending Durmstrang, but that doesn't last; not when he's
kidnapped by... um... actually, that /is/ still kinda dark stuff. It
turns out Planet Argo didn't blow up, and they're jerks. So is the
U.S. government.

Moon Shadow, you remember, an underground base fell on him... /will/
get better.

There are further or future appearances by the Von Foggs, including,
um, Alexandra?, who's /very/ like a mean, condensed Agatha Heterodyne.

And, so far, what happened to Zodon's parents is, um, creepy. Barry
Ween hd similar trouble... oh, have you seen Zodon's space station?
That's fun.

And The Revenant is still cool.

Wayne Throop

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Jan 5, 2012, 7:41:01 PM1/5/12
to
:: Can you explain a bit why Gunnerkrigg lost interest for you?

: djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
: Hard to say. I quit it after about the fourth volume and I don't
: remember many details now. It got grim and it didn't seem to be going
: anywhere.

Yes, the longer term story threads aren't apparent until later on.
And chapter 3 introduces Reynardine in a rather dark/grim way (ie,
he attempts to kill Antimony and Sivo is maimed). But hey, there are
dark things in, say, Girl Genius too, and I wouldn't say, on balance,
GC is any darker/grimmer than GG. Not a plea to reconsider, just saying.
And thanks for explaining a bit.

(I assume by "volume" you mean "chapter", since there are only three
volumes so far, "Orientation", "Research", and "Reason".) By the end of
chapter 4 we haven't even founed out the reason for Antimony's peculiarly
flattened affect (which we find out in chapter 6, "A Handful of Dirt"),
nor anything about Jeanne, Diego, or the founding of the Court. Nor even
Muut, who shows up in chapter 8. Nor had his art style stabilized and
hit the groove he's maintaining now.

We've at least met Mort, and Reynardine, and Eglamore, and of course
Kat, and chapter five introduces Zimmy and Gamma, but the *real* story
hasn't started yet. And we haven't seen Antimony in flashback, showing
her *lack* of a flattered affect as a smaller child, nor her slowly
recovering some of her previous verve.

Not that this is an encouragement to retry if you tried and bounced.
I'm just saying that the story hadn't really started yet at the end
of chapter 4. So anybody still trying might want to persevere a bit,
maybe through chapter 9, "Questions and Answers", since by then the
stage is mostly set, and if the stage hasn't caught your fancy then,
it's quite likely not to.


"Is that all ye got, blaggard?
Would thou wert clean enough to spit upon!"
--- epilogue to chapter 4, "Not Very Scary"


Gene Wirchenko

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Jan 5, 2012, 9:53:33 PM1/5/12
to
On Thu, 5 Jan 2012 18:07:05 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
wrote:

>In article <9mm6ut...@mid.individual.net>,
>Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote:
>>Konrad Gaertner <kgae...@tx.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Larry wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Since GG is not going to accept a Hugo nomination this year, I have been
>>>> casting around for an alternative.
>>>
>>>GG is my favorite comic ever (web or print), but I don't think it was
>>>right for them to get more than one Hugo. (I also don't think Locus
>>>should get more than one.)
>>
>>The award is for the best work in the given year. The comic is
>>written in each of the years it has won. How come Heinlein can win
>>for each of several year's books but they shouldn't?
>
>Well, the Heinlein books were separate works, not segments of a
>single work (despite the "Future History" thing). A webcomic is
>an ongoing process.

Could someone win two Hugos, one each for different novels set in
the same universe? How about if the novels are standalone?

Shall we start a debate on the line between related and separate
works?

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

Kurt Busiek

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Jan 5, 2012, 10:04:44 PM1/5/12
to
A webcomic may be an "ongoing process," but so is the Dresden Files
series of novels, and it can be divvied up, no problem. So can monthly
comics, daily comic strips, weekly TV shows and more.

I don't read GIRL GENIUS, but the authors divvy it up into chunks
themselves, when they publish it as print editions. But even if they
didn't -- if a soap opera like GUIDING LIGHT won a daytime Emmy, should
it never be able to compete for another?

PEANUTS won two Reuben Awards, in 1955 and 1964 -- is a comic strip any
less an "ongoing process" than a webcomic? [For those who'd note that
GG is a story strip and PEANUTS was gag-a-day, DICK TRACY won two
Reubens as well.]

kdb


--
Visit http://www.busiek.com -- for all your Busiek needs!

David Goldfarb

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Jan 5, 2012, 10:46:54 PM1/5/12
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In article <f72534ec-0a87-4429...@m4g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>,
Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
>There are further or future appearances by the Von Foggs, including,
>um, Alexandra?, who's /very/ like a mean, condensed Agatha Heterodyne.

I trust you know what Phil and Kaja Foglio named their children?

--
David Goldfarb |"Now you're living in your own fantasy world.
goldf...@gmail.com | We're into a whole weird area here."
gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu | -- MST3K, "Mr. B Natural"

Robert Carnegie

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Jan 6, 2012, 12:12:17 AM1/6/12
to
On Jan 6, 3:46 am, goldf...@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb) wrote:
> In article <f72534ec-0a87-4429-9539-52358a630...@m4g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>,
> Robert Carnegie  <rja.carne...@excite.com> wrote:
>
> >There are further or future appearances by the Von Foggs, including,
> >um, Alexandra?, who's /very/ like a mean, condensed Agatha Heterodyne.

(Wikipedia says: Alexandria.)

> I trust you know what Phil and Kaja Foglio named their children?

"The goblins" is what they were called in Kaja Foglio's LJ when I
noticed last, probably in a context such as "while my mother is
looking after". The Von Foggs all live in a gigantic airship that
claims to be a nation run on Von Fogg rational principles and with
diplomatic immunity, except that the kids attend PS238 and Pretorian
("Durmstrang") schools. I'm aware that the coincidences are
significant, of Williams not coming up with his own ideas. :-)
(JOKING)

David Dyer-Bennet

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Jan 6, 2012, 11:07:09 AM1/6/12
to
Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net> writes:

> On Thu, 05 Jan 2012 13:24:50 -0600, David Dyer-Bennet <dd...@dd-b.net>
> wrote:
>
>>I certainly have mixed feelings about people withdrawing because they've
>>won enough. The concept of an award for "best professional artist not
>>named Michael Whelan" doesn't sound like that great an honor.
>
> No. But there have been awards to "The best baseball player who
> happens to be white" - not to mention other subgroups such as college
> players or women.

Yes, and those seem to me to be rather thin honors as well.

Andy Leighton

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Jan 6, 2012, 12:43:38 PM1/6/12
to
On Thu, 05 Jan 2012 13:24:50 -0600, David Dyer-Bennet <dd...@dd-b.net> wrote:
>
> I certainly have mixed feelings about people withdrawing because they've
> won enough. The concept of an award for "best professional artist not
> named Michael Whelan" doesn't sound like that great an honor.
>
> The Foglio's reasoning is specific to the category being new, and I
> don't remember it as being permanent, either. It may well be the best
> choice for the field and for the award at this point.

I think that is a big part of the answer. I have been a little worried
about the diversity of nominations. GG, Shlock Mercenary and Fables
look likely to be always nominated (or at least until the Foglios
decided to withdraw). I wouldn't be surprised to see one of Shlock
Mercenary or Fables winning this year and the next. The long running
nature of many series, with releases each year, plus dedicated fans
of that series does seem to make a vibrant award more problematic than
it should be.

Personally I liked Grandville Mon Amour and The Unwritten better last
year - but I wasn't a member so didn't vote.

To be honest I never vote in best professional artist. I don't really
like it as a category - after all we don't have best professional
author. It would be better IMO to have an award for a specific piece of
art-work.

--
Andy Leighton => an...@azaal.plus.com
"The Lord is my shepherd, but we still lost the sheep dog trials"
- Robert Rankin, _They Came And Ate Us_

Jaimie Vandenbergh

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Jan 6, 2012, 2:15:08 PM1/6/12
to
On Fri, 06 Jan 2012 00:41:01 GMT, thr...@sheol.org (Wayne Throop)
wrote:

>By the end of
>chapter 4 we haven't even founed out the reason for Antimony's peculiarly
>flattened affect (which we find out in chapter 6, "A Handful of Dirt"),

... we do?

Cheers - Jaimie
--
If it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing.

Wayne Throop

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Jan 6, 2012, 2:34:51 PM1/6/12
to
[re: gunnerkrigg court]

:: By the end of chapter 4 we haven't even found out the reason for
:: Antimony's peculiarly flattened affect (which we find out in chapter
:: 6, "A Handful of Dirt"),

: Jaimie Vandenbergh <jai...@sometimes.sessile.org>
: .... we do?

Well... I thought it was tolerably clear by that point. Could just be me.
Of course related details were filled in later, eg, why she's so cheesed
off at Muut and the other psychopomps.

Mind you, there may also gave been something in those berries that
lowered her defenses. What with the nature of that tree and all.
Which nature we don't find out until much later... about the time
of the adventure with the Laser Cows iirc.

Jaimie Vandenbergh

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Jan 6, 2012, 5:18:21 PM1/6/12
to
On Fri, 06 Jan 2012 19:34:51 GMT, thr...@sheol.org (Wayne Throop)
wrote:

>[re: gunnerkrigg court]
>
>:: By the end of chapter 4 we haven't even found out the reason for
>:: Antimony's peculiarly flattened affect (which we find out in chapter
>:: 6, "A Handful of Dirt"),
>
>: Jaimie Vandenbergh <jai...@sometimes.sessile.org>
>: .... we do?
>
>Well... I thought it was tolerably clear by that point. Could just be me.

To be honest, I thought it was simple art evolution, given how flat
William and Kat are on the first few pages
http://www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=19 vs modern
http://www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=937 , for example.

Is there any textev that her flatness is symbolic? Forums count if Tom
comments!

>Of course related details were filled in later, eg, why she's so cheesed
>off at Muut and the other psychopomps.

Although now she knows why they didn't do what they didn't do.

>Mind you, there may also gave been something in those berries that
>lowered her defenses. What with the nature of that tree and all.
>Which nature we don't find out until much later... about the time
>of the adventure with the Laser Cows iirc.

Yep, that's when.

Cheers - Jaimie
--
"We have to go forth and crush every world view that doesn't
believe in tolerance and free speech." - David Brin

Konrad Gaertner

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Jan 6, 2012, 6:09:46 PM1/6/12
to
Larry wrote:
>
> Since GG is not going to accept a Hugo nomination this year, I have been
> casting around for an alternative.

I just looked up what the Hugo rules actually say, and from the WSFS
Constitution:

: 3.2.6: Works appearing in a series are eligible as individual works,
: but the series as a whole is not eligible. However, a work appearing
: in a number of parts shall be eligible for the year of the final
: part.

https://chicon.org/constitution.php#hugo-awards


Which sounds like webcomics can only be nominated if they ended in
2011 (like Digger, Crimson Dark, and The Phoenix Requiem), or if you
can name a subset that ended in 2011 (like "Skin Horse: If I Ran the
Zoo"). AFAICT, Freefall can't be nominated.

(Which is why we ended up giving the award to a title that was
technically published the day before the ceremony.)

I really wish you could nominate a series as a series, and we even
already have a rule to keep it from happening more than once:

: 3.2.4: A work shall not be eligible if in a prior year it received
: sufficient nominations to appear on the final award ballot.


--
Konrad Gaertner - - - - - - - - - - - - email: kgae...@tx.rr.com
http://kgbooklog.livejournal.com/
"I don't mind hidden depths but I insist that there be a surface."
-- James Nicoll

Howard Brazee

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Jan 6, 2012, 7:49:37 PM1/6/12
to
On Fri, 06 Jan 2012 10:07:09 -0600, David Dyer-Bennet <dd...@dd-b.net>
wrote:

>>>I certainly have mixed feelings about people withdrawing because they've
>>>won enough. The concept of an award for "best professional artist not
>>>named Michael Whelan" doesn't sound like that great an honor.
>>
>> No. But there have been awards to "The best baseball player who
>> happens to be white" - not to mention other subgroups such as college
>> players or women.
>
>Yes, and those seem to me to be rather thin honors as well.

Yep. But we certainly know the great white players and teams of the
Negro leagues era better than we know the Negro players and teams.

Howard Brazee

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Jan 6, 2012, 7:52:18 PM1/6/12
to
On Thu, 05 Jan 2012 18:53:33 -0800, Gene Wirchenko <ge...@ocis.net>
wrote:

> Could someone win two Hugos, one each for different novels set in
>the same universe? How about if the novels are standalone?

Certainly, why not?

Wayne Throop

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Jan 6, 2012, 8:38:58 PM1/6/12
to
:: By the end of chapter 4 we haven't even found out the reason for
:: Antimony's peculiarly flattened affect (which we find out in chapter
:: 6, "A Handful of Dirt"),

: Jaimie Vandenbergh <jai...@sometimes.sessile.org>
: To be honest, I thought it was simple art evolution, given how flat
: William and Kat are on the first few pages
: http://www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=19 vs modern
: http://www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=937 , for example.

Well, by "flattened affect", I'm talking about behavior, not visual
depiction. A flat visual depiction would be "flattened effect".
Her ultra-calm demeanor, even in the face of things you'd expect to
get a rise from her, even personal things. Of course, she retains a
bit of her cool throughout the series, but at the start she's almost
emotionally frozen. Later, she warms to Kat, mourns her mother, laughs
at things, etc. None of which she did early on.

But in chapter six, we find out what occured to effect her flat affect.

Note: (effect,affect) x (noun,verb) = four distinct meanings.
To effect an affect is not at all like affecting an effect.

affect,v; to modify or moderate an outcome
affect,n; demeanor or behavior
effect,v; to create or establish
effect,n; an outcome

: Is there any textev that her flatness is symbolic?

Again, sorry,to be unclear, but "flat affect" is a technical term.

http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=26293
Flat affect: A severe reduction in emotional expressiveness.

Of course, just to confuse the issue, the visual depiction *did* get more
"realism", including minimal shading and other 3d-isms, over the same
period of time. These changes affected the visual effects. I expect
these two things are unrelated.

technical term: a seemingly ordinary word or phrase, the meaning of
which in some contexts is distorted beyond mortal comprehension.
(Note: "technical term" is a technical term.)

Jaimie Vandenbergh

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Jan 7, 2012, 4:36:08 AM1/7/12
to
On Sat, 07 Jan 2012 01:38:58 GMT, thr...@sheol.org (Wayne Throop)
wrote:

>:: By the end of chapter 4 we haven't even found out the reason for
>:: Antimony's peculiarly flattened affect (which we find out in chapter
>:: 6, "A Handful of Dirt"),
>
>: Jaimie Vandenbergh <jai...@sometimes.sessile.org>
>: To be honest, I thought it was simple art evolution, given how flat
>: William and Kat are on the first few pages
>: http://www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=19 vs modern
>: http://www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=937 , for example.
>
>Well, by "flattened affect", I'm talking about behavior, not visual
>depiction.

Ah! In that case, I'm with you. I misread your non-typo.

Cheers - Jaimie
--
"The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armour to
lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores
the fact that it was he who, by peddling second-rate technology, led them
into it in the first place." - Douglas Adams

Andy Leighton

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Jan 7, 2012, 6:58:58 AM1/7/12
to
On Fri, 06 Jan 2012 17:52:18 -0700, Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net> wrote:
> On Thu, 05 Jan 2012 18:53:33 -0800, Gene Wirchenko <ge...@ocis.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Could someone win two Hugos, one each for different novels set in
>>the same universe? How about if the novels are standalone?
>
> Certainly, why not?

Since it has already occurred a number of times, once in successive
years, it does seem a redundant question.

In fact Bujold won 3 successive Hugos with stories set in the same
universe (one novella, two novels).

Kurt Busiek

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Jan 7, 2012, 12:00:34 PM1/7/12
to
On 2012-01-07 11:58:58 +0000, Andy Leighton <an...@azaal.plus.com> said:

> On Fri, 06 Jan 2012 17:52:18 -0700, Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net> wrote:
>> On Thu, 05 Jan 2012 18:53:33 -0800, Gene Wirchenko <ge...@ocis.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Could someone win two Hugos, one each for different novels set in
>>> the same universe? How about if the novels are standalone?
>>
>> Certainly, why not?
>
> Since it has already occurred a number of times, once in successive
> years, it does seem a redundant question.

It's meant as an illustration, I expect. If that's a matter of
"certainly, why not?" then another series, like a webcomic, should be
able to win for different segments as well.

Despite Dorothy's description of a webcomic as an ongoing process
(what, aren't series novels ongoing and a process?), serialized comic
strips, on the web or in print, are more particle than wave.

Andy Leighton

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Jan 7, 2012, 1:40:03 PM1/7/12
to
Yes, to an extent. However novels are generally not (these days)
written as serial fiction with a new installment every month (or week).
Many, if not most, graphic stories are. This means that a graphic
story is more likely to be in a position to have work which could be
nominated every year.

TBH I was disappointed when the Vorkosigan Saga was capturing
successive nominations and awards - however that was just one slot out
of five. I am also a disappointed with the Best Dramatic Presentation,
Short Form awards for lack of variety.

I am equally (well even more) disappointed when there are three graphic
story series (two of them webcomics) that have garnered nominations every
year. It smacks of either fanboyism or laziness on behalf of the
voters or a combination of both.

So what to do? If you have read any graphic story this year (which is
eligible) nominate and vote for it. Hopefully that may introduce a
bit more variety.

I guess that might promote another webcomic into the nominations - I don't
mind that, I have no particular axe to grind about webcomincs. I just feel
that seeing a fairly static nomination list year after year is very
disappointing.

Kurt Busiek

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Jan 7, 2012, 3:06:31 PM1/7/12
to
On 2012-01-07 18:40:03 +0000, Andy Leighton <an...@azaal.plus.com> said:

> On Sat, 7 Jan 2012 09:00:34 -0800, Kurt Busiek <ku...@busiek.com> wrote:
>> On 2012-01-07 11:58:58 +0000, Andy Leighton <an...@azaal.plus.com> said:
>>
>>> On Fri, 06 Jan 2012 17:52:18 -0700, Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net> wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 05 Jan 2012 18:53:33 -0800, Gene Wirchenko <ge...@ocis.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Could someone win two Hugos, one each for different novels set in
>>>>> the same universe? How about if the novels are standalone?
>>>>
>>>> Certainly, why not?
>>>
>>> Since it has already occurred a number of times, once in successive
>>> years, it does seem a redundant question.
>>
>> It's meant as an illustration, I expect. If that's a matter of
>> "certainly, why not?" then another series, like a webcomic, should be
>> able to win for different segments as well.
>>
>> Despite Dorothy's description of a webcomic as an ongoing process
>> (what, aren't series novels ongoing and a process?), serialized comic
>> strips, on the web or in print, are more particle than wave.
>
> Yes, to an extent. However novels are generally not (these days)
> written as serial fiction with a new installment every month (or week).

Many forms of serial fiction are, though, and it doesn't prohibit them
from winning an award more than once.

> Many, if not most, graphic stories are. This means that a graphic
> story is more likely to be in a position to have work which could be
> nominated every year.

Along with its competition, as you indicate.

Konrad Gaertner

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Jan 7, 2012, 3:41:22 PM1/7/12
to
Kurt Busiek wrote:
>
> Despite Dorothy's description of a webcomic as an ongoing process
> (what, aren't series novels ongoing and a process?), serialized comic
> strips, on the web or in print, are more particle than wave.

The problem is that some webcomics (like Girl Genius) are eligible
every year, while others (like Freefall) cannot be nominated until
they end (because his arcs aren't labeled). I guess Flaky Pastry:
Part 7 is eligible, even though we don't have a name yet for that arc.

Kurt Busiek

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Jan 7, 2012, 3:58:28 PM1/7/12
to
On 2012-01-07 20:41:22 +0000, Konrad Gaertner <kgae...@tx.rr.com> said:

> Kurt Busiek wrote:
>>
>> Despite Dorothy's description of a webcomic as an ongoing process
>> (what, aren't series novels ongoing and a process?), serialized comic
>> strips, on the web or in print, are more particle than wave.
>
> The problem is that some webcomics (like Girl Genius) are eligible
> every year, while others (like Freefall) cannot be nominated until
> they end (because his arcs aren't labeled). I guess Flaky Pastry:
> Part 7 is eligible, even though we don't have a name yet for that arc.

That doesn't seem like the kind of problem one would fix by deciding
that webcomics can only win once.

It seems like the kind of problem one would fix by suggesting that
FREEFALL name its arcs, if that's how the rules work. Or by changing
the rules to eliminate such a silly requirement.

Or, if the FREEFALL people don't care about being eligible for a Hugo,
it's not a problem at all.

Konrad Gaertner

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Jan 7, 2012, 4:39:19 PM1/7/12
to
Kurt Busiek wrote:
>
> On 2012-01-07 20:41:22 +0000, Konrad Gaertner <kgae...@tx.rr.com> said:
>
> > Kurt Busiek wrote:
> >>
> >> Despite Dorothy's description of a webcomic as an ongoing process
> >> (what, aren't series novels ongoing and a process?), serialized comic
> >> strips, on the web or in print, are more particle than wave.
> >
> > The problem is that some webcomics (like Girl Genius) are eligible
> > every year, while others (like Freefall) cannot be nominated until
> > they end (because his arcs aren't labeled). I guess Flaky Pastry:
> > Part 7 is eligible, even though we don't have a name yet for that arc.
>
> That doesn't seem like the kind of problem one would fix by deciding
> that webcomics can only win once.

Actually, I discovered yesterday that the constitution already
includes a much stricter rule: any previously short-listed work is
disqualified from all categories (I only wanted to disqualify
winners from the category won). Unfortunately, it doesn't apply to
people, periodicals, or TV series.

Kurt Busiek

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Jan 7, 2012, 5:30:55 PM1/7/12
to
On 2012-01-07 21:39:19 +0000, Konrad Gaertner <kgae...@tx.rr.com> said:

> Kurt Busiek wrote:
>>
>> On 2012-01-07 20:41:22 +0000, Konrad Gaertner <kgae...@tx.rr.com> said:
>>
>>> Kurt Busiek wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Despite Dorothy's description of a webcomic as an ongoing process
>>>> (what, aren't series novels ongoing and a process?), serialized comic
>>>> strips, on the web or in print, are more particle than wave.
>>>
>>> The problem is that some webcomics (like Girl Genius) are eligible
>>> every year, while others (like Freefall) cannot be nominated until
>>> they end (because his arcs aren't labeled). I guess Flaky Pastry:
>>> Part 7 is eligible, even though we don't have a name yet for that arc.
>>
>> That doesn't seem like the kind of problem one would fix by deciding
>> that webcomics can only win once.
>
> Actually, I discovered yesterday that the constitution already
> includes a much stricter rule: any previously short-listed work is
> disqualified from all categories (I only wanted to disqualify
> winners from the category won). Unfortunately, it doesn't apply to
> people, periodicals, or TV series.

Presumably, webcomics would (or should) fall under the "periodicals or
TV series" rule, for the same reasons they do. The next year's worth of
strips is not the same "work," any more than a sequel novel, the next
issue of a magazine or next season of a TV series.

David Dyer-Bennet

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Jan 7, 2012, 5:43:19 PM1/7/12
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Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net> writes:

> On Fri, 06 Jan 2012 10:07:09 -0600, David Dyer-Bennet <dd...@dd-b.net>
> wrote:
>
>>>>I certainly have mixed feelings about people withdrawing because they've
>>>>won enough. The concept of an award for "best professional artist not
>>>>named Michael Whelan" doesn't sound like that great an honor.
>>>
>>> No. But there have been awards to "The best baseball player who
>>> happens to be white" - not to mention other subgroups such as college
>>> players or women.
>>
>>Yes, and those seem to me to be rather thin honors as well.
>
> Yep. But we certainly know the great white players and teams of the
> Negro leagues era better than we know the Negro players and teams.

I suspect even I do, at the level of recognizing more of the names.
That of course worked partly because *at the time* the white community
felt it was a fair division.

David Dyer-Bennet

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Jan 7, 2012, 10:07:10 PM1/7/12
to
Konrad Gaertner <kgae...@tx.rr.com> writes:

> Larry wrote:
>>
>> Since GG is not going to accept a Hugo nomination this year, I have been
>> casting around for an alternative.
>
> I just looked up what the Hugo rules actually say, and from the WSFS
> Constitution:
>
> : 3.2.6: Works appearing in a series are eligible as individual works,
> : but the series as a whole is not eligible. However, a work appearing
> : in a number of parts shall be eligible for the year of the final
> : part.
>
> https://chicon.org/constitution.php#hugo-awards
>
>
> Which sounds like webcomics can only be nominated if they ended in
> 2011 (like Digger, Crimson Dark, and The Phoenix Requiem), or if you
> can name a subset that ended in 2011 (like "Skin Horse: If I Ran the
> Zoo"). AFAICT, Freefall can't be nominated.
>
> (Which is why we ended up giving the award to a title that was
> technically published the day before the ceremony.)

It depends on how they're presented. For some examples in another area,
a "season" of a TV show isn't considered one work generally and hence
isn't eligible as a whole; but something presented as a mini-series of 6
episodes would be. The difference between "this is the episode called
'The Arena'" (which appeared in season n) (eligible individually) and
"this is part three of 'Title of Work Here'" (one piece of a larger
work, the larger work is eligible).

It's not a completely and totally hard-and-fast distinction, and the
usual advice to Hugo administrators, and their usual choice, is to let
any clearly-expressed will of the nominators govern.

> I really wish you could nominate a series as a series, and we even
> already have a rule to keep it from happening more than once:

So, what, ST:TNG season 3? Or ST:TNG the whole thing? For most TV
series the season boundaries are relatively arbitrary.

> : 3.2.4: A work shall not be eligible if in a prior year it received
> : sufficient nominations to appear on the final award ballot.

--

Konrad Gaertner

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Jan 7, 2012, 11:17:54 PM1/7/12
to
David Dyer-Bennet wrote:
>
> It depends on how they're presented. For some examples in another area,
> a "season" of a TV show isn't considered one work generally and hence
> isn't eligible as a whole; but something presented as a mini-series of 6
> episodes would be. The difference between "this is the episode called
> 'The Arena'" (which appeared in season n) (eligible individually) and
> "this is part three of 'Title of Work Here'" (one piece of a larger
> work, the larger work is eligible).
>
> It's not a completely and totally hard-and-fast distinction, and the
> usual advice to Hugo administrators, and their usual choice, is to let
> any clearly-expressed will of the nominators govern.
>
> > I really wish you could nominate a series as a series, and we even
> > already have a rule to keep it from happening more than once:
>
> So, what, ST:TNG season 3? Or ST:TNG the whole thing? For most TV
> series the season boundaries are relatively arbitrary.

Heroes (season 1) was short-listed in 2008.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugo_Award_for_Best_Dramatic_Presentation

Greg Goss

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Jan 8, 2012, 3:10:33 AM1/8/12
to
Alan Baker <alang...@telus.net> wrote:


>I like it to... ...but is it just me, or do webcomics seem to lose the
>thread of their own plot after a while?

Unless losing track of the plotline is part of the charm. I used to
read Melonpool before the discontinuity, though I never got back into
it when he returned.
--
"Recessions catch what the auditors miss." (Galbraith)

Greg Goss

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Jan 8, 2012, 3:30:40 AM1/8/12
to
Andy Leighton <an...@azaal.plus.com> wrote:

>I am equally (well even more) disappointed when there are three graphic
>story series (two of them webcomics) that have garnered nominations every
>year. It smacks of either fanboyism or laziness on behalf of the
>voters or a combination of both.

Lazy voters are what you get if you want democracy. After all, how
many citizens just vote [D] or [R] without bothering to think every
few years. ([C] or [L] or [N] in my country.)

Gene Wirchenko

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Jan 9, 2012, 12:47:48 AM1/9/12
to
On Fri, 06 Jan 2012 17:09:46 -0600, Konrad Gaertner
<kgae...@tx.rr.com> wrote:

[snip]

>I really wish you could nominate a series as a series, and we even
>already have a rule to keep it from happening more than once:
>
>: 3.2.4: A work shall not be eligible if in a prior year it received
>: sufficient nominations to appear on the final award ballot.

So a work that is barely edged out by the winner will never be
eligible?

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

Anthony Nance

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Jan 9, 2012, 1:37:42 PM1/9/12
to
Kurt Busiek <ku...@busiek.com> wrote:
> On 2012-01-07 20:41:22 +0000, Konrad Gaertner <kgae...@tx.rr.com> said:
>
>> Kurt Busiek wrote:
>>>
>>> Despite Dorothy's description of a webcomic as an ongoing process
>>> (what, aren't series novels ongoing and a process?), serialized comic
>>> strips, on the web or in print, are more particle than wave.
>>
>> The problem is that some webcomics (like Girl Genius) are eligible
>> every year, while others (like Freefall) cannot be nominated until
>> they end (because his arcs aren't labeled). I guess Flaky Pastry:
>> Part 7 is eligible, even though we don't have a name yet for that arc.
>
> That doesn't seem like the kind of problem one would fix by deciding
> that webcomics can only win once.
>
> It seems like the kind of problem one would fix by suggesting that
> FREEFALL name its arcs, if that's how the rules work. Or by changing
> the rules to eliminate such a silly requirement.

Just in the way of general info, Freefall tends to name its arcs,
but typically not until a year or more after they've happened.
Check out http://freefall.purrsia.com/fcdex.htm

On the one hand, the named arcs only go through the end of 2009,
so perhaps he's no longer naming them. On the other hand, not
much time at all passed in-story in 2010 & 2011, so maybe it's
not arc-naming time yet.

Tony

William December Starr

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Jan 13, 2012, 6:54:25 AM1/13/12