Sequel to Gingrich's 1945?
Richard Gadsden
I've just finished reading 1945 by Gingrich and Fortschen. The covernotes
make reference to it being the first of three; are the sequel (s) out yet,
and what are their titles?
--
Richard Gadsden
"I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death
your right to say it." - Voltaire
Dan Goodman
In article <memo.19971123...@tga.u-net.com>,
Richard Gadsden <ric...@tga.u-net.com> wrote:
>I've just finished reading 1945 by Gingrich and Fortschen. The covernotes
>make reference to it being the first of three; are the sequel (s) out yet,
>and what are their titles?
The sequels will come out when a publisher considers them likely to be
profitable, when Gingrich becomes a Democrat, or when Hell freezes over.
1945 did not have good sales.
--
Dan Goodman
dsg...@visi.com
http://www.visi.com/~dsgood/index.html
Whatever you wish for me, may you have twice as much.
Dan Kimmel
On 23 Nov 1997 20:05:25 GMT, dsg...@visi.com (Dan Goodman) wrote:
>In article <memo.19971123...@tga.u-net.com>,
>Richard Gadsden <ric...@tga.u-net.com> wrote:
>>I've just finished reading 1945 by Gingrich and Fortschen. The covernotes
>>make reference to it being the first of three; are the sequel (s) out yet,
>>and what are their titles?
>
>The sequels will come out when a publisher considers them likely to be
>profitable, when Gingrich becomes a Democrat, or when Hell freezes over.
>1945 did not have good sales.
Since the unsold books were reportedly pulped, I supposed the sequel
would be the three pack of paper towels at the supermarket.
Newt Gingrich -- he's the quicker picker upper!
Irv Koch
Richard Gadsden wrote:
> I've just finished reading 1945 by Gingrich and Fortschen. The covernotes
> make reference to it being the first of three; are the sequel (s) out yet,
> and what are their titles?
According to BAEN books personnel, despite the disaster on the hardback
of this, and sorta poor sales of the paperback, there likely will be a
sequel. My bet is a single paperback. OTOH, it's unlikely until AFTER
Gingrich leaves office, whenever that might be.
--
http://www.fantek.org/merchant/irv.html
To reply to me, remove the obvious characters from my address.
Jon Meltzer
On 23 Nov 1997 18:46:00 GMT, ric...@tga.u-net.com (Richard Gadsden)
wrote:
>I've just finished reading 1945 by Gingrich and Fortschen. The covernotes
>make reference to it being the first of three; are the sequel (s) out yet,
>and what are their titles?
>
It will be published when 1945 gets out of the remainder bin : about
2097 ...
Jan @ Jerry Bryson
Irv Koch <irv...@sprintmailremovespamguard.com> wrote:
> According to BAEN books personnel, despite the disaster on the hardback
> of this, and sorta poor sales of the paperback, there likely will be a
> sequel. My bet is a single paperback. OTOH, it's unlikely until AFTER
> Gingrich leaves office, whenever that might be.
Hmm.... The title to be 1984, perhaps? Great for alternative history.
Robert J Sawyer
>I've just finished reading 1945 by Gingrich and Fortschen. The covernotes
>make reference to it being the first of three; are the sequel (s) out yet,
>and what are their titles?
1945 was one of the biggest financial disasters in SF publishing history,
with an 87% return rate. There will never be sequels published.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
ROBERT J. SAWYER * http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/sawyer
Author of ILLEGAL ALIEN, just released in hardcover by Ace:
"Add another hit to Sawyer's string" -- Science Fiction Chronicle
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Steven Silver
Athough Baen had contracted for a sequel and announced its scheduled
release (as Operation Europa), they cancelled the contract after they
had to pulp nearly 2/3rds of the hardcovers of _1945_. As of now,
_Operation Europa_ is as dead as Hitler himself, with only a slightly
greater chance of being resurrected
Steven H Silver
Judge: Sidewise Award for Alternate History
http://www.skatecity.com/ah/sidewise/
Irv Koch wrote:
>
> Richard Gadsden wrote:
> > I've just finished reading 1945 by Gingrich and Fortschen. The covernotes
> > make reference to it being the first of three; are the sequel (s) out yet,
> > and what are their titles?
>
> According to BAEN books personnel, despite the disaster on the hardback
> of this, and sorta poor sales of the paperback, there likely will be a
> sequel. My bet is a single paperback. OTOH, it's unlikely until AFTER
> Gingrich leaves office, whenever that might be.
>
> --
> http://www.fantek.org/merchant/irv.html
> To reply to me, remove the obvious characters from my address.
--
Steven H Silver
shsi...@ameritech.net
http://www.sfsite.com/~silverag/
Brenda and Larry Clough
Steven Silver wrote:
>
> Athough Baen had contracted for a sequel and announced its scheduled
> release (as Operation Europa), they cancelled the contract after they
> had to pulp nearly 2/3rds of the hardcovers of _1945_. As of now,
> _Operation Europa_ is as dead as Hitler himself, with only a slightly
> greater chance of being resurrected
>
> Steven H Silver
> Judge: Sidewise Award for Alternate History
>
And thank the Lord for that! There's a blistering review of 1945 over
on Jim MacDonald's web page, on sff.net.
--
Brenda W. Clough, author of HOW LIKE A GOD from Tor Books
<clo...@erols.com> http://www.sff.net/people/Brenda
Robert A. Woodward
In article <65asl0$oti$1...@darla.visi.com>, dsg...@visi.com (Dan Goodman) wrote:
> Next question -- how did Baen make such a misjudgement of 1945's potential
> sales?
Euphoria is my guess.
As I remember it, _1945_ (and sequels) was going to be a paperback. Then,
in Nov 1994, the Republican Party gained control of the House of
Representatives for the first time since 1954. In Jan 1995, Gingrich
becomes Speaker of the House. Baen changes _1945_ to hardcover release
(this was his blunder IMHO). The chainstores order a lot of copies; Baen
orders a big print run. The book doesn't sell and the copies are returned
(the chains misguess the demand, but don't face the music, tsk, tsk).
I don't know how many of these disasters Baen Books can survive without
going bankrupt.
Dan Goodman
Next question -- how did Baen make such a misjudgement of 1945's potential
sales?
Elisabeth Carey
Dan Goodman <dsg...@visi.com> wrote in article
<65asl0$oti$1...@darla.visi.com>...
> Next question -- how did Baen make such a misjudgement of 1945's
potential
> sales?
Fortschen had a good track record; Gingrich was, unlike a lot of
"celebrity" authors, actually familiar with sf. Gingrich _was_ a celebrity
of sorts, a famous and powerful politician at the height of his fame and
power, especially after the 1994 elections which I think is when they
decided to go with hardcover rather than paperback. Famous names _do_ sell
books; it happens all the time. Even though the decision turned out to be
disastrously wrong, it was not unreasonable of Baen to look at the sales of
the Shatner/Goulart Tek books, and the sales of Gingrich's book on the
Contract with America, and conclude that he had a guaranteed bestseller on
his hands.
Lis Carey
Roger Christie
Steven Silver wrote:
>
> Athough Baen had contracted for a sequel and announced its scheduled
> release (as Operation Europa), they cancelled the contract after they
> had to pulp nearly 2/3rds of the hardcovers of _1945_. As of now,
> _Operation Europa_ is as dead as Hitler himself, with only a slightly
> greater chance of being resurrected
>
And thus is the existence of God proven!!
> Steven H Silver
> Judge: Sidewise Award for Alternate History
Roger Christie
They should have tried /reading/ the book.
Stuart Drucker
Robert J Sawyer <7670...@CompuServe.COM> wrote:
>>I've just finished reading 1945 by Gingrich and Fortschen. The covernotes
>>make reference to it being the first of three; are the sequel (s) out yet,
>>and what are their titles?
>1945 was one of the biggest financial disasters in SF publishing history,
>with an 87% return rate. There will never be sequels published.
I thought it was at least an "enjoyable" read, but not a very
realistic AH. The British and the American reactions were very
anachronistic, IMHO, with the book serving more as a platform for
Newt's technocratic fantasies more than anything else.
For example, that whole bit at the end about needing a "new paradigm",
with iterations of peer review and go/no go gatekeeping. I doubt very
much that anyone in 1945 would have had quite the discussion that his
Oval Office group did. And that mano a mano stuff with Martel and
Skorzeny was really annoying. Not to mention that the "master
historian" got at least one detail wrong.; he associated Belisarius
with Constantine, not Justinian.
The premise, on the other hand, was an interesting one. I'd almost
read a sequel, just to see how the German invasion of Britan was
going, and whether the Luftwaffe did against our Navy task force.
Stuart Drucker
Drucker Analytics
sdru...@pipeline.com
"You stab 'em, we stat em'"
John Lorentz
Irv Koch <irv...@sprintmailremovespamguard.com> wrote in article
> of this, and sorta poor sales of the paperback, there likely will be a
> sequel. My bet is a single paperback. OTOH, it's unlikely until AFTER
> Gingrich leaves office, whenever that might be.
Can it be made a =condition= of the contract? I'll happily promise to buy
a copy if it helps get Newt out of office...
--John
Jeff Underwood-Jones
My Lord Yes... I'll secon that... I'll buy 10 copies if it will hasten
the day when we have a Newtless Congress.
Be Seeing You!
Jeff in San Antonio
Michael Valdivielso
John Lorentz (john_l...@planar.com) wrote:
: Irv Koch <irv...@sprintmailremovespamguard.com> wrote in article
: > According to BAEN books personnel, despite the disaster on the hardback
: > of this, and sorta poor sales of the paperback, there likely will be a
: > sequel. My bet is a single paperback. OTOH, it's unlikely until AFTER
: > Gingrich leaves office, whenever that might be.
: Can it be made a =condition= of the contract? I'll happily promise to buy
: a copy if it helps get Newt out of office...
I might be flamed for this, but here it goes. I found the book enjoyable
to read. I know enough about History (understatement) to not only enjoy
it, but look forward to the next (never to be printed) books.
Oh well..
Mike V.
--
I am not religious, I am neither a war hawk or
a peace dove, and Aristotle's logic is too limited.
Just call me a Fuzzy Atheist Owl.
|-]=======> bar...@netcom.com <=======[-|
Samuel S. Paik
I seem to recall the New York Times lampooned _1945_ by quoting
some text about a "pouting sex kitten". This might or may not
have made it more or less popular than it might have been.
Sam
who has never read _1945_ and doesn't have plans to read it.
--
Necessity is the Mother of Improvisation. | Samuel S. Paik
Laziness and Greed are the Parents of Innovation| pa...@webnexus.com
An Agent of the Small World Order Speak only for self
Karl-Johan Noren
In <347A68...@txdirect.net>,
Jeff Underwood-Jones <jef...@txdirect.net> wrote:
> John Lorentz wrote:
[ 1945 sequel ]
> > Can it be made a =condition= of the contract? I'll happily
> > promise to buy a copy if it helps get Newt out of office...
>
> My Lord Yes... I'll secon that... I'll buy 10 copies if it will hasten
> the day when we have a Newtless Congress.
No, no, no. There should _be_ newts in the Congress (and in
Riksdagen, for that matter). It's just that Newt is not a
proper example of a newt.
--
Karl-Johan Norén (Noren with acute e) -- k-j-...@dsv.su.se
http://www.dsv.su.se/~k-j-nore/
- To believe people are as stupid as one believes is
stupider than one can believe
Pierre Jelenc
Michael Valdivielso <bar...@netcom.com> writes:
>
> I might be flamed for this, but here it goes. I found the book enjoyable
> to read. I know enough about History (understatement) to not only enjoy
> it, but look forward to the next (never to be printed) books.
As far as alternate history goes (not my favorite genre) I enjoyed it as
well. Much better than The Two Georges, for instance.
Pierre
--
Pierre Jelenc
New York City | Home Office
Beer Guide | Records
http://www.nycbeer.org/ | http://www.web-ho.com/
Matt Austern
Karl-Johan Noren <k-j-...@dsv.su.se> writes:
> > My Lord Yes... I'll secon that... I'll buy 10 copies if it will hasten
> > the day when we have a Newtless Congress.
>
> No, no, no. There should _be_ newts in the Congress (and in
> Riksdagen, for that matter). It's just that Newt is not a
> proper example of a newt.
Will he get better?
Mike Ralls
On Mon, 24 Nov 1997, Stuart Drucker wrote:
> The premise, on the other hand, was an interesting one. I'd almost
> read a sequel, just to see how the German invasion of Britan was
> going, and whether the Luftwaffe did against our Navy task force.
Well, since there is never going to be a sequel, how about we, the
netizens of rec.arts.sf.written and soc.history.what-if come up with
one? Not a full blown novel of course, but maybe just a time-line on
what happens next. Any one interested?
T Hodges
It wasn't that bad! Planet of the Apes was much worse. I have read
a lot of books that were lots worse. There were pretty good action
scenes, a couple of the characters were interesting, the politics
wasn't laid on that heavy. It was better than Turtledove's version
at least by virtue of beng lots shorter.
Tom
In article <34798F...@spinach.xylogics.com>,
>They should have tried /reading/ the book.
--
Tom Hodges tho...@freenet.calgary.ab.ca
Professional Agronomist, member Baha'i Faith, Go player
Bill Snyder
>
>My Lord Yes... I'll secon that... I'll buy 10 copies if it will hasten
>the day when we have a Newtless Congress.
>
Not so fast, now; some of us feel that all Congresscritters should be
Newt-ered.
--
Bill Snyder [This space unintentionally left blank.]
Jan @ Jerry Bryson
Does anybody else find it interesting that Newt chose alternate history
for his book?
Pat Robertson came out with a fanstasy, about the same time
Matt Austern <aus...@isolde.mti.sgi.com> wrote:
> Karl-Johan Noren <k-j-...@dsv.su.se> writes:
>
> > > My Lord Yes... I'll secon that... I'll buy 10 copies if it will hasten
> > > the day when we have a Newtless Congress.
> >
> > No, no, no. There should _be_ newts in the Congress (and in
> > Riksdagen, for that matter). It's just that Newt is not a
> > proper example of a newt.
>
> Will he get better?
--
Nescio ne sum, ergo penso sum.
Doug Hoff
Dan Kimmel wrote in message <65a7mc$d...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>...
>On 23 Nov 1997 20:05:25 GMT, dsg...@visi.com (Dan Goodman) wrote:
>
>>In article <memo.19971123...@tga.u-net.com>,
>>>I've just finished reading 1945 by Gingrich and Fortschen. The covernotes
>>>make reference to it being the first of three; are the sequel (s) out
yet,
>>>and what are their titles?
>>
>>profitable, when Gingrich becomes a Democrat, or when Hell freezes over.
>>1945 did not have good sales.
>
>Since the unsold books were reportedly pulped, I supposed the sequel
>would be the three pack of paper towels at the supermarket.
>
>Newt Gingrich -- he's the quicker picker upper!
Maybe some quilted Charmin, too.
--
hoff...@sprynet.com
Check out my alt-hist site. Timeline and essay contributions welcome.
http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/hoff5767/
Eric Oppen
In a previous article, dsg...@visi.com (Dan Goodman) says:
>In article <memo.19971123...@tga.u-net.com>,
>Richard Gadsden <ric...@tga.u-net.com> wrote:
>>I've just finished reading 1945 by Gingrich and Fortschen. The covernotes
>>make reference to it being the first of three; are the sequel (s) out yet,
>>and what are their titles?
>
>The sequels will come out when a publisher considers them likely to be
>profitable, when Gingrich becomes a Democrat, or when Hell freezes over.
>1945 did not have good sales.
>--
IMNSHO, a lot of that was because of reviewers romping on it because the
"intelligentsia" had decided that Newt Gingrich was the Antichrist's
black-sheep brother. A LOT of the reviews, as I remember, spent more time
denouncing Gingrich as everything but the man who set the Reichstag Fire,
than commenting on the book.
--
\|/ /\ \|/ |Despite its proven stress-relieving effect, I will not in-
\/ \/ |dulge in maniacal laughter. When so occupied, it's easy to
/ \ |miss unexpected developments that a more attentive individ-
/____________\ |ual could adjust to accordingly.
Dan Goodman
In article <65likc$l...@alexander.INS.CWRU.Edu>,
Eric Oppen <cc...@cleveland.Freenet.Edu> wrote:
>
>In a previous article, dsg...@visi.com (Dan Goodman) says:
>
>>In article <memo.19971123...@tga.u-net.com>,
>>Richard Gadsden <ric...@tga.u-net.com> wrote:
>>>I've just finished reading 1945 by Gingrich and Fortschen. The covernotes
>>>make reference to it being the first of three; are the sequel (s) out yet,
>>>and what are their titles?
>>
>>The sequels will come out when a publisher considers them likely to be
>>profitable, when Gingrich becomes a Democrat, or when Hell freezes over.
>>1945 did not have good sales.
>>--
>IMNSHO, a lot of that was because of reviewers romping on it because the
>"intelligentsia" had decided that Newt Gingrich was the Antichrist's
>black-sheep brother. A LOT of the reviews, as I remember, spent more time
>denouncing Gingrich as everything but the man who set the Reichstag Fire,
>than commenting on the book.
Right. They're also responsible for the poor sales of _The Bridges of
Madison County_. And for Rush Limbaugh's inability to find a job in
broadcasting. And for Ronald Reagan being shunned by the Republican
Party.
If the book had been good enough, it would have sold to 1) people who read
a lot of science fiction, and don't give a hoot what the intelligentsia
say about a particular book unless it's wrong enough to be funny; 2)
conservatives who sometimes read science fiction; 3) people who admire
Newt Gingrich; 4) people who think that the intelligentsia can be relied
on to be wrong.
Russell Wallace
Eric Oppen wrote:
> >The sequels will come out when a publisher considers them likely to be
> >profitable, when Gingrich becomes a Democrat, or when Hell freezes over.
> >1945 did not have good sales.
> >--
> IMNSHO, a lot of that was because of reviewers romping on it because the
> "intelligentsia" had decided that Newt Gingrich was the Antichrist's
> black-sheep brother. A LOT of the reviews, as I remember, spent more time
> denouncing Gingrich as everything but the man who set the Reichstag Fire,
> than commenting on the book.
I'm sure they did. However, as someone whose political views are pretty
far to the right and who generally agrees with Gingrich, I have to say
that the book was, to be perfectly honest, crap. The plot was
implausible and badly put together, the characters were two-dimensional,
the combat scenes were unrealistic, and the political message was
excessively crude and heavy-handed even for me, who sympathized with
it. I suspect these things had far more to do with its poor sales than
anything left-wing reviewers said.
--
"To summarize the summary of the summary: people are a problem."
Russell Wallace
mano...@iol.ie
Marcus L. Rowland
In article <3480FF...@iol.ie>, Russell Wallace <mano...@iol.ie>
writes
>I have to say
>that the book was, to be perfectly honest, crap. The plot was
>implausible and badly put together, the characters were two-dimensional,
>the combat scenes were unrealistic, and the political message was
>excessively crude and heavy-handed even for me, who sympathized with
>it. I suspect these things had far more to do with its poor sales than
>anything left-wing reviewers said.
Agree with all of the above. It's implausible garbage, and the ending is
ridiculous techno-babble. A waste of UKP 0.99, which is what it was
remaindered for in my neck of the woods.
--
Marcus L. Rowland
http://www.ffutures.demon.co.uk/
"We are all victims of this slime. They... ...fill our mailboxes with gibberish
that would get them indicted if people had time to press charges"
[Hunter S. Thompson predicts junk e-mail, 1985 (from Generation of Swine)]
Phil Hunt
In article <3480FF...@iol.ie> mano...@iol.ie "Russell Wallace" writes:
> I'm sure they did. However, as someone whose political views are pretty
> far to the right and who generally agrees with Gingrich,
I don't know what Gingrich's politics are -- so that can't have
affected how I felt about the book. I thought it was quite good,
if nothing special.
> I have to say
> that the book was, to be perfectly honest, crap. The plot was
> implausible
What was implausible about it? In OTL, Hitler nearly did win WW2,
so I don't see it as implausible to have an AH novel where he actually
did win.
--
******** Phil Hunt == ph...@vision25.demon.co.uk ********
"The evidence is irrelevant" -- David Boothroyd, explaining
the rationale behind Labour policy on drugs.
<http://www.vision25.demon.co.uk/index.htm> for info on:
Eurolang, politics, voting systems, basic income.
Dan Goodman
In article <880912...@vision25.demon.co.uk>,
Phil Hunt <ph...@vision25.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <3480FF...@iol.ie> mano...@iol.ie "Russell Wallace" writes:
>> I'm sure they did. However, as someone whose political views are pretty
>> far to the right and who generally agrees with Gingrich,
>
>I don't know what Gingrich's politics are -- so that can't have
>affected how I felt about the book. I thought it was quite good,
>if nothing special.
>
>> I have to say
>> that the book was, to be perfectly honest, crap. The plot was
>> implausible
>
>What was implausible about it? In OTL, Hitler nearly did win WW2,
>so I don't see it as implausible to have an AH novel where he actually
>did win.
"Nearly won" is overstating things, I would say. If the war had been
entirely confined to Western Europe, that might be true. A war confined
to Europe (using the Urals as a dividing line) -- maybe.
But if you add in Africa (exclusive of territories granted to Italy),
Soviet Asia, Iceland, Greenland, whatever parts of Asia weren't left to
the Japanese, plus Canada and Newfoundland -- I strongly doubt that Hitler
could have won.
Cambias
_1945_ lived and died by virtue of it's coauthor's political fame. I
doubt it would have been published if not for him, and I doubt it would
have gotten such widespread negative reviews. It was bad, but no worse
than lots of other stuff in print.
Cambias
xeno
cc...@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Eric Oppen) wrote:
>In a previous article, dsg...@visi.com (Dan Goodman) says:
>>In article <memo.19971123...@tga.u-net.com>,
>>Richard Gadsden <ric...@tga.u-net.com> wrote:
>>>I've just finished reading 1945 by Gingrich and Fortschen. The covernotes
>>>make reference to it being the first of three; are the sequel (s) out yet,
>>>and what are their titles?
>>
>>The sequels will come out when a publisher considers them likely to be
>>profitable, when Gingrich becomes a Democrat, or when Hell freezes over.
>>1945 did not have good sales.
>>--
>IMNSHO, a lot of that was because of reviewers romping on it because the
>"intelligentsia" had decided that Newt Gingrich was the Antichrist's
>black-sheep brother. A LOT of the reviews, as I remember, spent more time
>denouncing Gingrich as everything but the man who set the Reichstag Fire,
>than commenting on the book.
Indeed. I even recall Connie Chung making a commentary on Gingrich's book
(same time when she allowed that interview with Newt's mother to be
broadcast, if I remember correctly), and attempted to portray the book as
one filled with sex, quoting one section in particular (mind you, she did
not mention any other part). I read that book, and the scene she described
was at the very beginning, and was the only scene pertaining to sex,
romance, or anything of that sort in the entire book! What gall!!! I figure
that she read that part, decided she'd already made up her mind, and never
really got into the book. The main story, incidentally, focused on an AH
history of WW2 where Hitler because of an accident, never ordered the
attack on Russia. But does Chung say anything about that? NOOOOO
>--
> \|/ /\ \|/ |Despite its proven stress-relieving effect, I will not in-
> \/ \/ |dulge in maniacal laughter. When so occupied, it's easy to
> / \ |miss unexpected developments that a more attentive individ-
>/____________\ |ual could adjust to accordingly.
KTARIS/XENO (Matthew Shelton)
Unofficial Acting Chancellor of the
Shire of the Far Woods (of Amtgard)
and a nobody everywhere else
E-Mail Address: mlsheltn at cc dot memphis dot edu
Homepage URL: http://www.people.memphis.edu/~mlsheltn
Elisabeth Carey
xeno <mlsheltn@ccdotmemphisdotedu> wrote in article
<668a9v$a...@oolong.memphis.edu>...
But that's not picking on Gingrich; that's the way it works in the real
world. If the first few pages seriously put off the reader instead of
drawing the reader in, then the reader is unlikely to bother with the rest
of the book. The sex kitten scene in _1945_ was right there at the very
beginning where nobody could miss it; it evoked hoots and snickers and very
little desire to read any further. The difference between this book with a
hopelessly foolish opening scene and any other book with a hopelessly
foolish opening scene is that reviewers and commentators still gave it a
lot of attention in their columns and tv or radio shows.
And not everyone who did read further was much impressed by the quality and
consistency of the alternate history.
Lis Carey