Need some really unreal sci-fi/fantasy
m...@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca
that it was A Clash of Kings. Since its going to be a
while before the next Song of Fire and Ice book, I need
some reading recommendations.
I'd like to add the following though, what I'm specifically
looking for is some really otherworldly sci-fi/fantasy.
I'm in the mood for something that reminds me of Yes album
covers, surrealist painting and European sci-fi/fantasy graphic novels.
Reason for this is that lately I find myself being put off by
the glut of hard sci-fi, military sci-fi and realistic fantasy
that's getting bandied around here so often.
Some examples of what I'm looking for would be Tanith Lee's
Tale of the Flat Earth and Gene Wolfe's Books of the New Sun.
In the sci-fi realm-it'd be Gaia and some of Philip Jose Farmer's
books (though I'm not much of a fan for Philip's prose).
A more recent example of otherworldliness was Waking Beauty
by Paul Witcover (I think that's his name, intriguing world
but the story got muddled towards the middle and end-still
impressive for a first time writer). Another writer who
I find has this otherworldly quality is Neil Gaiman. His
Neverwhere despite being in modern-day UK, was far more
fantastic and airy than the vast majority of what's in the
fantasy section.
One last thing, I'd also hope for a writer who has an elegant prose
and eye for detail similar to Tanith, Gene and Neil.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
Debra Roman
m...@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca wrote:
>
> One last thing, I'd also hope for a writer who has an elegant prose
> and eye for detail similar to Tanith, Gene and Neil.
I can heartily recommend Terry Goodkind's Sword of Truth series,
beginning with Wizards First Rule. I'm not familiar with some of the
authors you mentioned but TG's Fantasy novels have great attention to
detail and excellent character development. His books are LONG and
usually these lose me in the middle (like Robert Jordon) when they
begin to drag....I definately didn't have that problem with TG's books.
--
Debra
debr...@yahoo.com
Andrew Plotkin
> Man, I haven't read a book since Water Sleeps and before
> that it was A Clash of Kings. Since its going to be a
> while before the next Song of Fire and Ice book, I need
> some reading recommendations.
> I'd like to add the following though, what I'm specifically
> looking for is some really otherworldly sci-fi/fantasy.
> I'm in the mood for something that reminds me of Yes album
> covers, surrealist painting and European sci-fi/fantasy graphic novels.
> Reason for this is that lately I find myself being put off by
> the glut of hard sci-fi, military sci-fi and realistic fantasy
> that's getting bandied around here so often.
Silverberg's _Lord Valentine's Castle_ has always been the top of my list
for "Ought to have cover art from Yes albums." Not deep stuff, but fun.
You can skip the sequels.
And then ready everything by McKillip.
> Some examples of what I'm looking for would be Tanith Lee's
> Tale of the Flat Earth and Gene Wolfe's Books of the New Sun.
Oh, and Jack Vance. I'm not sure which Vance you'd like; Vance has been
writing for a long time.
--Z
--
"And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the
borogoves..."
Lance Purple
>
> I'd like to add the following though, what I'm specifically
> looking for is some really otherworldly sci-fi/fantasy. I'm
> in the mood for something that reminds me of Yes album covers,
> surrealist painting and European sci-fi/fantasy graphic novels.
Here are some works you might like, listed in descending order
of how hard it is to obtain a copy...
H. P. Lovecraft's "dreamworld" stories
* The Dream Quest of Unknown Kadath
* The Doom That Came to Sarnath
Jack Vance's "Dying Earth" novels
* The Dying Earth
* Eyes of the Overworld
* Cugel's Saga
* Rhialto the Marvellous
Clarke Ashton Smith's short story collections
* Hyperborea
* Poseidonis
* Xiccarph
* Zothique
William Hope Hodgson's "The Night Land"
(You probably won't find any used copies, but since it's public
domain, you can read it online at http://eserver.org/nightland/
I suggest reading chapter 2 first...)
,----------------------------.
| lpurple at netcom dot com |
'----------------------------'
Jo Walton
> I'd like to add the following though, what I'm specifically
> looking for is some really otherworldly sci-fi/fantasy.
> I'm in the mood for something that reminds me of Yes album
> covers, surrealist painting and European sci-fi/fantasy graphic novels.
> Reason for this is that lately I find myself being put off by
> the glut of hard sci-fi, military sci-fi and realistic fantasy
> that's getting bandied around here so often.
What you are looking for is what Emmet classifies as "wide-screen
baroque" I suspect. It's something I have limited tolerance for,
because it very easily slips over an edge into leaving me indifferent.
But there is a fair bit of it about.
You could try John Crowley, much of whose work I don't personally like,
but who definitely belongs with the authors you cite.
Mervyn Peake.
John Barnes' :One For the Morning Glory:, which I do like and recommend.
P.C. Hodgell.
C.S. Friedman, the trilogy and :In Conquest Born:.
Some of Patricia McKillip. Try :Winter Rose: and :The Sorceress and
the Cygnet:.
M.A. Foster, oddly enough.
Clive Barker's :Imajica: - I hated it, but it definitely meets your
criteria.
--
Jo - - I kissed a kif at Kefk - - J...@bluejo.demon.co.uk
http://www.bluejo.demon.co.uk - Interstichia; Poetry; RASFW FAQ; etc.
Craig A. Jensen
*Very minor spoilers ahead.*
-
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-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
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There's one scene where a person is leading a group of lepers through
a crystalline forest. The person is holding a jeweled cross up high
and, one by one, the jewels from the cross light up and then fall off.
Behind, lepers dance around, they're semi-crystalline limbs glittering
and reflecting light as they cavort around in a world slowly turning
to glass.
If that's not surreal enough for you, then you need the sort of
hi-octane, industrial strength surrealism that probably less than a
dozen books period possess. :) :) :)
---
Craig A. Jensen
jen...@qn.net
eva...@usa.net
following though, what I'm specifically
> looking for is some really otherworldly sci-fi/fantasy.
> I'm in the mood for something that reminds me of Yes album
> covers, surrealist painting and European sci-fi/fantasy graphic
novels.
> Reason for this is that lately I find myself being put off by
> the glut of hard sci-fi, military sci-fi and realistic fantasy
> that's getting bandied around here so often.
>
> Tale of the Flat Earth and Gene Wolfe's Books of the New Sun.
> books (though I'm not much of a fan for Philip's prose).
> A more recent example of otherworldliness was Waking Beauty
> by Paul Witcover (I think that's his name, intriguing world
> but the story got muddled towards the middle and end-still
> impressive for a first time writer). Another writer who
> I find has this otherworldly quality is Neil Gaiman. His
> Neverwhere despite being in modern-day UK, was far more
> fantastic and airy than the vast majority of what's in the
> fantasy section.
>
> and eye for detail similar to Tanith, Gene and Neil.
>
Have you read Gaiman's "Sandman"?- that seems perfectly what you might
be after.
Ev
--
.................................
The Absent Ugly are and Old
The Present Young and Fair
William Clifford
>Man, I haven't read a book since Water Sleeps and before
>that it was A Clash of Kings. Since its going to be a
>while before the next Song of Fire and Ice book, I need
>some reading recommendations.
>
>I'd like to add the following though, what I'm specifically
>looking for is some really otherworldly sci-fi/fantasy.
>I'm in the mood for something that reminds me of Yes album
>covers, surrealist painting and European sci-fi/fantasy graphic novels.
> Reason for this is that lately I find myself being put off by
>the glut of hard sci-fi, military sci-fi and realistic fantasy
>that's getting bandied around here so often.
A few weeks ago I reviewed Jeff Noon's _Vurt_. That qualifies.
See also Jonathan Lethem's _Gun with Occaisional Music_ and _Amnesia
Moon_.
See also Stanislaw Lem's _The Futurological Congress_ (I have to find
more good Lem myself).
I haven't read much of it but what I've read of Cordwainer Smith's
short stories definitely qualifies.
-William Clifford
Know your fields before replying by mail
Samuel Paik
> Reason for this is that lately I find myself being put off by
> the glut of hard sci-fi, military sci-fi and realistic fantasy
> that's getting bandied around here so often.
Glut?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
> Some examples of what I'm looking for would be Tanith Lee's
> Tale of the Flat Earth and Gene Wolfe's Books of the New Sun.
> One last thing, I'd also hope for a writer who has an elegant prose
> and eye for detail similar to Tanith, Gene and Neil.
Try Patricia McKillip
--
Samuel S. Paik | http://www.webnexus.com/users/paik/
3D and multimedia, architecture and implementation
Solyent Green is kitniyot!
Akiba Hofmann
>> looking for is some really otherworldly sci-fi/fantasy.
[sniption]
>
>Clive Barker's :Imajica: - I hated it, but it definitely meets your
>criteria.
Almost all of Clive Barker's stuff is in this vein I would say. I happen to
love his writing, he's one of the few authors on my "buy on sight" list. If
you read enough of his stuff you can begin to distrust the normal "reality"
around you...he takes normal worlds and turns them on their heads. Of
course, there's a fine distinction people try to draw between fantasy and
horror, and I honestly can't say which side Barker stands...that's probably
why I like it so much.
--
Kibi
I have yet to see any problem, however complicated, which, when you looked
at it in the right way, did not become still more complicated. - Poul
Anderson
Scott C. Beeler
> On Sat, 12 Jun 1999 18:28:24 GMT, m...@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca wrote:
>
> >looking for is some really otherworldly sci-fi/fantasy.
> >covers, surrealist painting and European sci-fi/fantasy graphic novels.
> >the glut of hard sci-fi, military sci-fi and realistic fantasy
> >that's getting bandied around here so often.
>
>
> See also Jonathan Lethem's _Gun with Occaisional Music_ and _Amnesia
> Moon_.
>
> See also Stanislaw Lem's _The Futurological Congress_ (I have to find
> more good Lem myself).
I've only read _The Cyberiad_ but that one's very good too.
> I haven't read much of it but what I've read of Cordwainer Smith's
> short stories definitely qualifies.
These all seem like good recommendations to me.
I'll toss in Michael Marshall Smith's _Only Forward_.
--
Scott Beeler scbe...@mindspring.com
jessie shelton
> I'd like to add the following though, what I'm specifically
> looking for is some really otherworldly sci-fi/fantasy.
> I'm in the mood for something that reminds me of Yes album
> covers, surrealist painting and European sci-fi/fantasy graphic novels.
Hm. How about _Dubious Hills_, by Pamela Dean? The characters aren't
larger-than-life or stylized, but it's...definitely odd and different.
The Last Unicorn, Peter S. Beagle.
And maybe, when you've read a couple others, try Hexwood by Diana Wynne
Jones. That one doesn't have the exact tone you're looking for, but I
think the other elements (surreal structure, especially, and layering of
realities) are there enough for you to appreciate it anyway.
jessie
--
---------------------------------------------------------------
jessie shelton (one side of moebius)
shelton(AT)princeton.edu http://www.princeton.edu/~shelton
"The gods love the obscure and hate the obvious."
-- Brihadaranyaka Upanishad
---------------------------------------------------------------
Eileen Lufkin
<7ju8s1$esg$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
> I'd like to add the following though, what I'm specifically
> looking for is some really otherworldly sci-fi/fantasy.
> I'm in the mood for something that reminds me of Yes album
> covers, surrealist painting and European sci-fi/fantasy graphic
novels.
> Some examples of what I'm looking for would be Tanith Lee's
> Tale of the Flat Earth and Gene Wolfe's Books of the New Sun.
I second the recommendations of John Crowley and Cordwainer Smith.
By the time you read this I will probably be the dozenth person to
recommend McKillip and Vance. You might also like _Gormenghast_ by
Mervyn Peake. This is supposed to be the middle book of a trilogy;
but I recommend reading it first, because it has most of the best
bits and more of the sympathetic characters. I may be prejudiced
because I read it that way the first time by accident, but I enjoyed
it; and many people who tried to start with _Titus Groan_ didn't.
_Titus Alone_ is a must for completists. Peake died and someone
published a very rough draft.
--
eileen...@my-dejanews.com
"Life is strange," said Jeremy. "Compared to what?" asked the
spider.
Nancy Lebovitz
jessie shelton <shelton@princeton&spambane.edu> wrote:
>m...@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca wrote:
>
>> I'd like to add the following though, what I'm specifically
>> looking for is some really otherworldly sci-fi/fantasy.
>> I'm in the mood for something that reminds me of Yes album
>> covers, surrealist painting and European sci-fi/fantasy graphic novels.
>
>larger-than-life or stylized, but it's...definitely odd and different.
>
>The Last Unicorn, Peter S. Beagle.
>
>And maybe, when you've read a couple others, try Hexwood by Diana Wynne
>Jones. That one doesn't have the exact tone you're looking for, but I
>think the other elements (surreal structure, especially, and layering of
>realities) are there enough for you to appreciate it anyway.
And you might like _The Physiognomy_ by Jeffrey Ford--it's a sufficiently
strange and cynical setting.
--
Nancy Lebovitz na...@netaxs.com
Calligraphic button catalogue available by email!
Joel Baxter
Nancy Lebovitz <na...@unix3.netaxs.com> wrote:
>
>And you might like _The Physiognomy_ by Jeffrey Ford--it's a sufficiently
>strange and cynical setting.
Any other words about that one, BTW? It's a book I've picked up and put
back on the shelf several times now. Just haven't sorted out its vibe yet.
:-)
--
Joel Baxter jba...@lemur.stanford.edu http://lemur.stanford.edu/~jbaxter/
Sion Arrowsmith
>I'd like to add the following though, what I'm specifically
>looking for is some really otherworldly sci-fi/fantasy.
>I'm in the mood for something that reminds me of Yes album
>covers, surrealist painting and European sci-fi/fantasy graphic novels.
_A Voyage to Arcturus_, David Lindsay.
--
\S -- si...@chiark.greenend.org.uk -- http://www.chaos.org.uk/~sion/
___ | "Frankly I have no feelings towards penguins one way or the other"
\X/ | -- Arthur C. Clarke
| If music be the food of love, bring me a doggie bag.
Nancy Lebovitz
Joel Baxter <jba...@lemur.Stanford.EDU> wrote:
>In article <7k1t37$5...@netaxs.com>,
>Nancy Lebovitz <na...@unix3.netaxs.com> wrote:
>>
>>And you might like _The Physiognomy_ by Jeffrey Ford--it's a sufficiently
>>strange and cynical setting.
>
>Any other words about that one, BTW? It's a book I've picked up and put
>back on the shelf several times now. Just haven't sorted out its vibe yet.
>:-)
There isn't much like it being written these days, afaik. I think of
it as Kafka lite--there's a complex, cruel, and pointless system
of classifying people, and the book is written from the point of
view of one of the enforcers. There are more mitigating factors
than Kafka would permit.
I don't know whether you'd like it--it isn't serious world building,
but I thought it had a fair amount of emotional/social truth and
a surprisingly gamerish ending.
Kennedy, David (EXCHANGE:IRE07:GC42)
[Much snippage]
Suggestions:
(1) Jack Vance's "Dying Earth" books.
(2) Paul J McAuley's "Ancients of Days" - New Sun look alike series.
--
David Kennedy, | kenn...@nortelnetworks.com
Northern Ireland Telecommunications | ESN: 6 751 2678
Engineering Centre (NITEC), | Phone: 01232 362678
Nortel Networks | Fax: 01232 363170
m...@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca
it doesn't fit my criteria. The prose and story is run of
a mill-for example how many times have we seen "the noble
savage" bit applied to a tribal society who ends up adopting
the hero as one of their own despite being initially xenophobic.
Also what seperates this series in terms of being surreal
from any other fantasy? I mean if you dump the dragons and
the magicians, you get a standard medieval setting whereas
Tanith Lee's Tales of the Flat Earth and Gene Wolfe's Books
of the New Sun-"magic" so infuses their world that if you
remove the obvious sorcery or ultratech usage, you still get
a very alien and surreal world.
Thanks but Sword of Truth isn't what I'm looking for.
In article <7jubll$fls$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
Debra Roman <debr...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> In article <7ju8s1$esg$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> m...@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca wrote:
> >
> > One last thing, I'd also hope for a writer who has an elegant prose
> > and eye for detail similar to Tanith, Gene and Neil.
>
> I can heartily recommend Terry Goodkind's Sword of Truth series,
> beginning with Wizards First Rule. I'm not familiar with some of the
> authors you mentioned but TG's Fantasy novels have great attention to
> detail and excellent character development. His books are LONG and
> usually these lose me in the middle (like Robert Jordon) when they
> begin to drag....I definately didn't have that problem with TG's
books.
>
> --
> Debra
> debr...@yahoo.com
>
m...@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca
that had artwork contributed towards it by Roger Dean, the guy
who does Yes album covers. It was Elric at the End of Time, and
the art was totally appropriate for the story.
Another series that should get the Roger Dean treatment in my opinion
is The Dancers at the End of Time series by Moorcock. Colorful and
decadent characters with the ability to manipulate reality according
to their own whims (and these are very whimsical whims).
>
> Silverberg's _Lord Valentine's Castle_ has always been the top of my
list
> for "Ought to have cover art from Yes albums." Not deep stuff, but
fun.
> You can skip the sequels.
>
> And then ready everything by McKillip.
>
> > Some examples of what I'm looking for would be Tanith Lee's
> > Tale of the Flat Earth and Gene Wolfe's Books of the New Sun.
>
> Oh, and Jack Vance. I'm not sure which Vance you'd like; Vance has
been
> writing for a long time.
>
Yeah, Vance. I read a few of his. I finished the Demon Prince
series (excellent series-feels like Errol Flynn and The Shadow
in outer space) and read the Dragon Masters (whenever I see the
video game Panzer Dragoon, I can't help but think The Dragon Masters).
Thanks for the recommendation
> --Z
>
> --
>
> "And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the
> borogoves..."
>
m...@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca
Wide-screen baroque. What a fitting name-the stories
I mentioned were really garish in a way and could be
easily visualized ending up as an arthouse film. I
had a hard time coming up with good label. The closest
I could think of is "Purple prose mixed with a twist
of LSD"
Except for Clive Barker and Mervyn Peake, I haven't
heard of the other authors, so thanks for directing
me to them.
BTW is there any "wide-screen baroque" stories that
you do like?
In article <929220...@bluejo.demon.co.uk>,
J...@bluejo.demon.co.uk wrote:
> In article <7ju8s1$esg$1...@nnrp1.deja.com> m...@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca
writes:
>
> > I'd like to add the following though, what I'm specifically
> > looking for is some really otherworldly sci-fi/fantasy.
> > I'm in the mood for something that reminds me of Yes album
> > covers, surrealist painting and European sci-fi/fantasy graphic
novels.
> > Reason for this is that lately I find myself being put off by
> > the glut of hard sci-fi, military sci-fi and realistic fantasy
> > that's getting bandied around here so often.
>
> What you are looking for is what Emmet classifies as "wide-screen
> baroque" I suspect. It's something I have limited tolerance for,
> because it very easily slips over an edge into leaving me indifferent.
> But there is a fair bit of it about.
>
> You could try John Crowley, much of whose work I don't personally
like,
> but who definitely belongs with the authors you cite.
>
> Mervyn Peake.
>
> John Barnes' :One For the Morning Glory:, which I do like and
recommend.
>
> P.C. Hodgell.
>
> C.S. Friedman, the trilogy and :In Conquest Born:.
>
> Some of Patricia McKillip. Try :Winter Rose: and :The Sorceress and
> the Cygnet:.
>
> M.A. Foster, oddly enough.
>
> Clive Barker's :Imajica: - I hated it, but it definitely meets your
> criteria.
>
> --
> Jo - - I kissed a kif at Kefk - -
J...@bluejo.demon.co.uk
> http://www.bluejo.demon.co.uk - Interstichia; Poetry; RASFW FAQ; etc.
>
>
m...@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca
in particular stuck with me. The one about the writer
who's cure for writer's block was to imprison Calliope the muse.
The other one is when gods and beings from various mythologies
go to a formal dinner at Morpheus's to contest ownership of Hell after
Lucifer retires to be a beatnik.
In article <7jv2vi$lrf$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
eva...@usa.net wrote:
> In article <7ju8s1$esg$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,> I'd like to add the
> following though, what I'm specifically
> > looking for is some really otherworldly sci-fi/fantasy.
> > I'm in the mood for something that reminds me of Yes album
> > covers, surrealist painting and European sci-fi/fantasy graphic
> novels.
> > Reason for this is that lately I find myself being put off by
> > the glut of hard sci-fi, military sci-fi and realistic fantasy
> > that's getting bandied around here so often.
> >
> > Some examples of what I'm looking for would be Tanith Lee's
> > Tale of the Flat Earth and Gene Wolfe's Books of the New Sun.
> > In the sci-fi realm-it'd be Gaia and some of Philip Jose Farmer's
> > books (though I'm not much of a fan for Philip's prose).
> > A more recent example of otherworldliness was Waking Beauty
> > by Paul Witcover (I think that's his name, intriguing world
> > but the story got muddled towards the middle and end-still
> > impressive for a first time writer). Another writer who
> > I find has this otherworldly quality is Neil Gaiman. His
> > Neverwhere despite being in modern-day UK, was far more
> > fantastic and airy than the vast majority of what's in the
> > fantasy section.
> >
> > One last thing, I'd also hope for a writer who has an elegant prose
> > and eye for detail similar to Tanith, Gene and Neil.
> >
> > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> > Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
> >
>
> Have you read Gaiman's "Sandman"?- that seems perfectly what you might
> be after.
>
> Ev
> --
> .................................
> The Absent Ugly are and Old
> The Present Young and Fair
>
m...@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca
to dabble in the high-octane, industrial strength variety just
yet.
Thanks
In article <3763039...@nntp.service.ohio-state.edu>,
m...@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca
Not too big on Patricia (dunno why) but I like some of Vance's work.
What's Cordwainer Smith like?
Thanks
In article <01beb60b$da72ba80$LocalHost@eileen>,
"Eileen Lufkin" <Eileen...@my-dejanews.com> wrote:
> m...@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca wrote in article
> <7ju8s1$esg$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
> > I'd like to add the following though, what I'm specifically
> > looking for is some really otherworldly sci-fi/fantasy.
> > I'm in the mood for something that reminds me of Yes album
> > covers, surrealist painting and European sci-fi/fantasy graphic
> novels.
>
> > Some examples of what I'm looking for would be Tanith Lee's
> > Tale of the Flat Earth and Gene Wolfe's Books of the New Sun.
>
> I second the recommendations of John Crowley and Cordwainer Smith.
> By the time you read this I will probably be the dozenth person to
> recommend McKillip and Vance. You might also like _Gormenghast_ by
> Mervyn Peake. This is supposed to be the middle book of a trilogy;
> but I recommend reading it first, because it has most of the best
> bits and more of the sympathetic characters. I may be prejudiced
> because I read it that way the first time by accident, but I enjoyed
> it; and many people who tried to start with _Titus Groan_ didn't.
> _Titus Alone_ is a must for completists. Peake died and someone
> published a very rough draft.
> --
> eileen...@my-dejanews.com
> "Life is strange," said Jeremy. "Compared to what?" asked the
> spider.
>
>
Kate Nepveu
: In article <7ju8s1$esg$1...@nnrp1.deja.com> m...@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca writes:
: > I'd like to add the following though, what I'm specifically
: > looking for is some really otherworldly sci-fi/fantasy.
: > I'm in the mood for something that reminds me of Yes album
: > covers, surrealist painting and European sci-fi/fantasy graphic novels.
: > Reason for this is that lately I find myself being put off by
: > the glut of hard sci-fi, military sci-fi and realistic fantasy
: > that's getting bandied around here so often.
: What you are looking for is what Emmet classifies as "wide-screen
: baroque" I suspect. It's something I have limited tolerance for,
: because it very easily slips over an edge into leaving me indifferent.
: But there is a fair bit of it about.
[...]
: John Barnes' :One For the Morning Glory:, which I do like and recommend.
What about _Desolation Road_, which is the first thing that came to mind
when I read this request, and perhaps _Winter's Tale_ (which I still
haven't finished reading, but am almost inspired to pick up again after
reading another love-letter to NYC, _So You Want to be a Wizard?_)?
Kate
--
http://www.concentric.net/~knepveu/ - The Paired Reading Page; Reviews
"I feel the sun on my back
I smell the earth in my skin --Liz Phair,
I see the sky above me like a full recovery" "What Makes You Happy"
Mac Almy
On Sat, 12 Jun 1999 m...@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca wrote:
> Some examples of what I'm looking for would be Tanith Lee's
> Tale of the Flat Earth and Gene Wolfe's Books of the New Sun.
> In the sci-fi realm-it'd be Gaia and some of Philip Jose Farmer's
> books (though I'm not much of a fan for Philip's prose).
> A more recent example of otherworldliness was Waking Beauty
> by Paul Witcover (I think that's his name, intriguing world
> but the story got muddled towards the middle and end-still
> impressive for a first time writer). Another writer who
> I find has this otherworldly quality is Neil Gaiman. His
> Neverwhere despite being in modern-day UK, was far more
> fantastic and airy than the vast majority of what's in the
> fantasy section.
>
Let's see, I'll put in another plug for John Crowley. Most people
focus in on _Little, Big_ which is pretty good, but I prefered _The Deep_
and _Engine Summer_. I never completely understand what is going on in
his books, but I still find them quite enjoyable.
I've only just started reading P.C. Hodgel, but from what I've read of
_God Stalk_, she would be another good one for you. Unfortunately, she
seems to be out of print right now.
Again, I'll echo the recommends for Mervyn Peake's Gormenghast series,
particularly the first two, _Titus Groan_ and _Gormenghast_. I think I
didn't find the third, _Titus Alone_, to be as bad as most people, but it
doesn't have that much in common than the other two.
For a science fiction series, I would suggest the Silence Leigh series
by Melissa Scott. It has definite space opera elements to it, but it
posits an advanced science based on alchemical principles. Crank up
Vaughn Williams' _Fantasia_ during the space flight scenes. The first
book is _Five Twelths of Heaven_.
Stanislaw Lem is a good one, as others have mentioned. My personal
favorite is _Eden_ which involves a crew of explorers crash landing on a
planet where nothing makes sense. The descriptions are excellent and
eerie, and you also get a good picture of how normal people would react
to bizarre circumstances.
Last suggestion is _The Anubis Gates_ by Tim Powers. I think you will
enjoy this one, given that you liked _Neverwhere_. Powers has a
different writing style than Gaiman, but both books involve strangeness
lurking beneath or behind our everyday world.
Best of Luck.
Mac Almy
Richard Hanley
>
> Speaking of Yes album covers, there was actually an Elric story
> that had artwork contributed towards it by Roger Dean, the guy
> who does Yes album covers. It was Elric at the End of Time, and
> the art was totally appropriate for the story.
>
> Another series that should get the Roger Dean treatment in my opinion
> is The Dancers at the End of Time series by Moorcock.
I don't think Dean ever did any Hawkwind covers, did he?
Just on Roger Dean: when I was collecting records back in the mid-70s
it was a sufficient condition of my buying an album I came across that
it had a Roger Dean cover... in this way I discovered bands like
Greenslade, Osibisa, and Gravy Train. Who else did he do covers for?
(apart from Yes, obviously...)
Cheers.
Nancy Lebovitz
>Yup, I'm being bombarded with calls for Mckillip and Vance.
>Not too big on Patricia (dunno why) but I like some of Vance's work.
>
>What's Cordwainer Smith like?
>
class him with Bradbury as a science fiction author who's more
interested in emotional intensity and moral issues than in scientific
accuracy or world-building.
However, his prose isn't much like Bradbury's--he gets his effects
much more efficiently.
Jo Walton
> BTW is there any "wide-screen baroque" stories that
> you do like?
Ian McDonald's :Desolation Road:, as Kate just mentioned. Of what I
listed I like the Barnes and the Friedman and M.A. Foster.
The term was one Emmet used here a few years ago comparing :Godstalk:
and :Black Sun Rising: IIRC.
Another one you could try is Storm Constantine's Wraethu books,
maybe.
Jo Walton
> What's Cordwainer Smith like?
He's like the bastard offspring of Lord Dunsany and a Chinese Sage.
Erich R. Schneider
I don't know exactly who he's done album covers for, but you can see
samples of many of them in the collection _Magnetic Storm_, which I
highly recommend. There may also be some in the collection _Views_,
but I'm not sure. Both published by Paper Tiger.
--
Erich Schneider er...@caltech.edu Caltech Information Technology Services
GCU Cultural Attache
<J...@bluejo.demon.co.uk> asserted
>In article <7k3cqd$tse$1...@nnrp1.deja.com> m...@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca writes:
>
>> What's Cordwainer Smith like?
>
>He's like the bastard offspring of Lord Dunsany and a Chinese Sage.
LOL! Actually that's not a bad description, except you might add that
his writing sounds like he was smoking some funny weeds at the time (I
guess Chinese Sages did that too?).
Cordwainer Smith actually wrote the closest thing to 'poetic Sci Fi'
that I can still enjoy, in that it also manages to have a (sort of)
plot. I particularly liked 'The Planet Buyer', although that seems to be
the ones that some others like least. The biggest problem I have with
C.S. is trying to guess what the reading order should (ideally) be.
Lord Dunsany - nope, leaves me cold; lucky he had a Lordship to fall
back on, coz folks like Charles Dickens and HG Wells and Jules Verne had
him nailed, as a writer (imo).
GCU Cultural Attache:
jessie shelton
> Yup, I'm being bombarded with calls for Mckillip and Vance.
> Not too big on Patricia (dunno why) but I like some of Vance's work.
>
> What's Cordwainer Smith like?
He is a stylist, and though I like his vivid, cadenced prose, I don't
like his style of story-telling. (He's recognizably a product -- albeit
an unconscious product -- of an earlier age in terms of gender issues,
and that bugs me too.)
What really gets in my way of enjoying Smith is that the ratio of clever
effects to actual plot is just too high. He has a tendency to tell
rather than show, and although he often tells in very unusual and clever
ways, it doesn't make me really believe in it. His characters in
particular never really emerge, for me, from his narrative voice, and
that bugs me a great deal.
but a lot of people rave over him, so obviously MMV. <shrug>
jessie shelton
> BTW is there any "wide-screen baroque" stories that
> you do like?
<laugh> The only book I can think of, given that phrase, is "The Worm
Ourobouros." Which isn't the category as Jo defined it, but it's a
perfect phrase to describe tWO.
Jesper Svedberg
kenn...@europem01.nt.com says...
> Suggestions:
> (1) Jack Vance's "Dying Earth" books.
I second this.
> (2) Paul J McAuley's "Ancients of Days" - New Sun look alike series.
Never heard if this series, is it as good as the New Sun (which happens
to be one of my favourites)?
I've alse seen that many has recommended Patricia McKillip. The only
thing I've read by her is the first two Riddlemaster books, and I've been
less than impressed, it all feels really unimaginative. Are er other
books different?
// Jesper Svedberg
Gerry Quinn
>In article <3764F814...@europem01.nt.com>,
>kenn...@europem01.nt.com says...
>
>> Suggestions:
>> (1) Jack Vance's "Dying Earth" books.
>
>I second this.
>
>> (2) Paul J McAuley's "Ancients of Days" - New Sun look alike series.
>
>Never heard if this series, is it as good as the New Sun (which happens
>to be one of my favourites)?
Nor have I, but 'Red Dust' by Paul J McAuley is an excellent romp (also with
some Wolfean overtones).
Or you could try Peter Hamilton's _Night's Dawn_ trilogy.
- Gerry Quinn
Rachel Brown
> >>
> >>And you might like _The Physiognomy_ by Jeffrey Ford--it's a
sufficiently
> >>strange and cynical setting.
> There isn't much like it being written these days, afaik. I think of
> it as Kafka lite--there's a complex, cruel, and pointless system
> of classifying people, and the book is written from the point of
> view of one of the enforcers. There are more mitigating factors
> than Kafka would permit.
I've started it a few times but keep not finishing it. The setting is
definitely interesting, and Ford has a distinctive voice, but there's
something about the plot that doesn't grab me. Possibly I also find it
difficult to deal with that much entrenched and pervasive nastiness in
anything other than small, widely spaced does. There's some of that in
Swanwick's "The Iron Dragon's Daughter," but with a much more propulsive
plot and writing style, and it also helps that the viewpoint character is
more sympathetic, at least for a while.
> I don't know whether you'd like it--it isn't serious world building,
> but I thought it had a fair amount of emotional/social truth and
> a surprisingly gamerish ending.
Gamerish? You mean like a role-playing game? Would that be a happy ending
where the enforcer (aka the Jerk from Hell) saves the world and gets the
girl? How odd.
Rachel
Nancy Lebovitz
Rachel Brown <r.ph...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>Nancy Lebovitz <na...@unix3.netaxs.com> wrote in article
>
>> but I thought it had a fair amount of emotional/social truth and
>> a surprisingly gamerish ending.
>
>Gamerish? You mean like a role-playing game? Would that be a happy ending
>where the enforcer (aka the Jerk from Hell) saves the world and gets the
>girl? How odd.
>
like something out of FRP.
Fire3Sky
that it was A Clash of Kings. Since its going to be a
while before the next Song of Fire and Ice book, I need
some reading recommendations.
>>>>>
Who writes the Song of Fire and Ice?
There is a book called "Cards of Grief" by Jane Yolen that is good.
Also, Sherri Tepper's "Grass".
Fire3Sky
Del Cotter
Jo Walton <J...@bluejo.demon.co.uk> wrote (of the phrase "wide-screen
baroque"):
>The term was one Emmet used here a few years ago comparing :Godstalk:
>and :Black Sun Rising: IIRC.
My grovelling apologies to Emmet if my memory is playing me false, but
wasn't it originally used by Brian Aldiss in _Billion Year Spree?_
--
Del Cotter | Usenet: Produce of more than one country
d...@branta.demon.co.uk | May contain nuts
Peter D. Tillman
In a previous article, na...@unix3.netaxs.com (Nancy Lebovitz) says:
>In article <01beb6e8$2c2bf9e0$9949480c@default>,
>Rachel Brown <r.ph...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>>Nancy Lebovitz <na...@unix3.netaxs.com> wrote in article
>>
>>> I don't know whether you'd like it--it isn't serious world building,
>>> but I thought it had a fair amount of emotional/social truth and
>>> a surprisingly gamerish ending.
>>
>>Gamerish? You mean like a role-playing game? Would that be a happy ending
>>where the enforcer (aka the Jerk from Hell) saves the world and gets the
>>girl? How odd.
>>
>No--it's the use of small clues to come up with a clever win which seems
>like something out of FRP.
>
Spinrad gives _The Physiognomy_ good marks in the current Asimov's --
though I must say it doesn't sound like my cup of tea.
Cheers - Pete Tillman
Book Reviews: http://www.silcom.com/~manatee/reviewer.html#tillman
Jo Walton
d...@branta.demon.co.uk "Del Cotter" writes:
> On Mon, 14 Jun 1999, in rec.arts.sf.written
> Jo Walton <J...@bluejo.demon.co.uk> wrote (of the phrase "wide-screen
> baroque"):
>
> >The term was one Emmet used here a few years ago comparing :Godstalk:
> >and :Black Sun Rising: IIRC.
>
> My grovelling apologies to Emmet if my memory is playing me false, but
> wasn't it originally used by Brian Aldiss in _Billion Year Spree?_
Goodness knows. I haven't read it. I don't know if he has but that may
well be where he got it from if you're right. I'll ask.
Arne Gabriel
> I'd like to add the following though, what I'm specifically
> looking for is some really otherworldly sci-fi/fantasy.
> I'm in the mood for something that reminds me of Yes album
> covers, surrealist painting and European sci-fi/fantasy graphic
> novels.
I guess I have exactly the same problem you have... read my "I need
something to read" thread :-)
I suggest the following:
Stations of the Tide - Michael Swanwick
short, but buckets of sense of wonder. A Roger Dean cover would really
fit.
Vurt - Jeff Noon
Far out. I mean, faaaaar out. He obviously takes lots of drugs. It's
surprisingly readable for this kind of stuff, though.
Against a dark Background - Iain M Banks
intricate. baroque. superb character development (my opinion, not often
shared here, but what do they know :-) IMHO Iain Banks gets more and
more Gene Wolfe like...
Arne Gabriel
--
(!) to reply via email, remove the "x" in .dex (!)
Ninni M Pettersson
> In article <7k3c60$tk6$1...@nnrp1.deja.com> m...@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca writes:
>
> > BTW is there any "wide-screen baroque" stories that
> > you do like?
>
> Ian McDonald's :Desolation Road:, as Kate just mentioned. Of what I
> listed I like the Barnes and the Friedman and M.A. Foster. <snip>
M. A. Foster is "wide-screen baroque"? That puzzles me a little,
I've always thought of his books as kind of "intimate and personal". Of
course YMMV and all that, but since I like very few of the authors
mentioned in this thread, and Foster OTOH is one of my favourite
authors, I would be interested to hear your reasons.
/Ninni Pettersson
--
Mail-adress is vidumavi at swipnet dot se
Tudor Doll Costume
http://home9.swipnet.se/~w-93136/doll1.html
Benjamin Adams
>
> In article <3764F814...@europem01.nt.com>,
> kenn...@europem01.nt.com says...
>
>
> Never heard if this series, is it as good as the New Sun (which happens
> to be one of my favourites)?
_Ancients of Days_ is the second book in the Confluence series.
_Child of the River_ is the first.
-Ben Adams
csm
<d...@branta.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> My grovelling apologies to Emmet if my memory is playing me false, but
> wasn't it originally used by Brian Aldiss in _Billion Year Spree?_
In reference to _Flight Into Yesterday_ (AKA _The Paradox Men_)
by Charles Harness.
- csm
David Given
see_sig...@email.xx (Ninni M Pettersson) writes:
[...]
> M. A. Foster is "wide-screen baroque"? That puzzles me a little,
> I've always thought of his books as kind of "intimate and personal". Of
> course YMMV and all that, but since I like very few of the authors
> mentioned in this thread, and Foster OTOH is one of my favourite
> authors, I would be interested to hear your reasons.
I don't know if it counts as `baroque', but I can't recommend Jeff Noon's
_Vurt_ high enough. Imagine Gibson, Burroughs (both of them) and Philip K.
Dick in a car crash; mix the remains thoroughly, reanimate, and what
they'd write would seem oddly familiar.
It's brilliant.
--
+- David Given ---------------McQ-+
| Work: d...@tao-group.com | Join the Illuminati and see the world...
| Play: dgi...@iname.com | differently.
+- http://wired.st-and.ac.uk/~dg -+
Alter S. Reiss
> Yup, I'm being bombarded with calls for Mckillip and Vance.
> Not too big on Patricia (dunno why) but I like some of Vance's work.
>
> What's Cordwainer Smith like?
Rather than trying to describe him, here are the titles of the
short stories in a "best of" collection that I aquired recently:
Scanners Live in Vain
The Lady Who Sailed The Soul
The Game of Rat and Dragon
The Burning of the Brain
The Crime and the Glory of Commander Suzdal
Golden the Ship Was -- Oh! Oh! Oh!
The Dead Lady of Clown Town
Under Old Earth
Mother Hitton's Littul Kittons
Alpha Ralpha Boulevard
The Ballad of Lost C'mell
A Planet Named Shayol
He writes like those titles.
--
Alter S. Reiss -------------------- http://www.geocities.com/Area51/2129
"There will be more art, history, and literature tomorrow."
-- An announcement at the NYPL Webster Branch library book sale
Mike Schilling
describe Bester's first two novels.
Christopher J. Henrich
> Thanks Jo, now I have a name for what I'm looking for.
> Wide-screen baroque. What a fitting name-the stories
> I mentioned were really garish in a way and could be
> easily visualized ending up as an arthouse film. I
> had a hard time coming up with good label. The closest
> I could think of is "Purple prose mixed with a twist
> of LSD"
Try _The House On The Borderland_ by William Hope Hodgson.
It will warp your mind.
Chris Henrich
Richard Treitel
>And then ready everything by McKillip.
Yup, she is wondrously unreal. And then try some Geston, especially if
you can find any of the older ones (_Mirror to the Sky_ is rather
down-to-Earth compared with them).
-- Richard
------
I don't read Usenet as regularly as I used to. Please be patient.
See also http://www.sirius.com/~treitel/Mark/index.html
++ remove foodstuffs from address before replying ++
Ian Galbraith
:csm wrote:
Nope you're both right. He used the term to describe both writers.
Be Seeing You
--
Ian Galbraith
Email: igalb...@ozonline.com.au ICQ#: 7849631
"I am enough of an artist to draw freely upon my imagination. Imagination
is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination
encircles the world." - Albert Einstein
Del Cotter
Jo Walton <J...@bluejo.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> >The term was one Emmet used here a few years ago comparing :Godstalk:
>> >and :Black Sun Rising: IIRC.
>>
>> My grovelling apologies to Emmet if my memory is playing me false, but
>> wasn't it originally used by Brian Aldiss in _Billion Year Spree?_
>
>Goodness knows. I haven't read it. I don't know if he has but that may
>well be where he got it from if you're right. I'll ask.
I doubt it occurred to him you wouldn't be familiar with the term, as
it's quite well-known. A search of the string "wide-screen baroque"
turns up three hits on Altavista. In April 1997, Simon Bisson used it
in a review of _The Reality Dysfunction_ by Peter F. Hamilton [1].
It also appears in the essay "Annihilation Factotum: The Work of
Barrington J. Bayley" [2] and in a page devoted to Brian Aldiss (with
reference to his own novels, not _Billion Year Spree_) [3].
--
Del Cotter d...@branta.demon.co.uk
[1] http://www.fehen.demon.co.uk/stuff/reality.htm
[2] http://www.uri.edu/artsci/english/clf/n6_a3.html
[3] http://www.saunalahti.fi/~jtlin/aldiss.html
kan...@netscape.net
best fantasy books I've read in a long time, when it came out. (Family
obligations, jobs, dead puppies, etc. have made it impossible so far for
me to read the sequel, The BlackGod, which apparently distinguishes
itself by being the End of The Story.) I think it meets your criteria...
Kandi
m...@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca wrote:
: Thanks but I have read some of Terry Goodkind's work and
: it doesn't fit my criteria. The prose and story is run of
: a mill-for example how many times have we seen "the noble
: savage" bit applied to a tribal society who ends up adopting
: the hero as one of their own despite being initially xenophobic.
: Also what seperates this series in terms of being surreal
: from any other fantasy? I mean if you dump the dragons and
: the magicians, you get a standard medieval setting whereas
: Tanith Lee's Tales of the Flat Earth and Gene Wolfe's Books
: of the New Sun-"magic" so infuses their world that if you
: remove the obvious sorcery or ultratech usage, you still get
: a very alien and surreal world.
Kandi Hopkins, Columbus, OH: ka...@infinet.com
"True excellence is not winning every battle. True excellence is winning
the battle without fighting."
The Art of War
Adam Benedict Canning
You might try MAR Barker's Man of Gold.
Adam
Arne Gabriel
[ "wide-screen baroque" ]
> It also appears in the essay "Annihilation Factotum: The Work of
> Barrington J. Bayley"
I just remembered reading a short story collection by B.J.Bayley once,
titled "Seeds od Evil" or somesuch.
Man, what _unsettling_ stories! Brilliant, really. Sort of like Lem, but
a lot darker. A lot.
Eddie Grove
> I'd like to add the following though, what I'm specifically
> looking for is some really otherworldly sci-fi/fantasy.
IMO, there are only a few common world-types that get
used over and over in most SF.
For one that is rather different, try Adam Lee, who wrote a
trilogy starting with "The Dark Shore". The third book is
not yet in paperback, so I have only read the first two. I
really liked the first, and although the second suffers from
second-of-three syndrome, I liked it too.
Eddie Grove