Shadow Rising - (spoilers)
x90de...@gw.wmich.edu
First, I would like to thank whoever pointed out the part about
Luc and Isam being the same person. At first I thought everyone was
crazy, but now that you point it out, I realize you must be right.
so...thanks.
about Mat,
everyone is speculating about the medallian and what it does and
what he will do with it. the snake people in the ter'angreal implied
it will save him from aes sedai. has anyone considered that since
he got the medallian, he has not been healed by an aes sedai.
he HAS been in very bad shape (aka when they got out of Ruidean),
but now seems to be of the opinion that he would rather be hurt than
healed by an aes sedai. i wonder how long it will take him to figure
out what it does?
about Rand,
he now has the two greatest Sa'angreal in the world. history
dictates that great works can only be done by male and female
aes sedai working together. Lanfear claims that together he and
she with the statues can destroy the dark one. Is it too great a
leap in logic to say that if they could defeat the dark one they
could also remove the taint? what else is he going to use the statue
for?
another thing, every time Rand gets a newer more powerful Sa'angreal,
he seems to think that with THIS one he can do anything. Anyone
get the feeling he's wrong? perhaps this belief is just symptomatic
of using powerful sa'angreal.
what do you think the wise ones will do when they find out what
Rand did to Ruidean?
with moiraine using her stone to overhear all Rand's conversations
(clues given throughout the ride to Alcair Dal) how long will Rand
be able to keep secret the fact that he is being taught by one of
the Forsaken? he knows about the dreams, but apparently not about
moiraine's ability to eavesdrop.
-daniel
sig. ? no thanks, I don't smoke.
MCNEELY, PAUL
>possible spoilers below!!!
>
>First, I would like to thank whoever pointed out the part about
>Luc and Isam being the same person. At first I thought everyone was
>crazy, but now that you point it out, I realize you must be right.
>
>so...thanks.
profecy impossible but I don't think I would have put the clues together even
then...
>
>about Mat,
> everyone is speculating about the medallian and what it does and
>what he will do with it. the snake people in the ter'angreal implied
>it will save him from aes sedai. has anyone considered that since
>he got the medallian, he has not been healed by an aes sedai.
>he HAS been in very bad shape (aka when they got out of Ruidean),
>but now seems to be of the opinion that he would rather be hurt than
>healed by an aes sedai. i wonder how long it will take him to figure
>out what it does?
available to heal him. The next day he apparently felt good enough not to need
it. As to what that medallion does? There is no evidence it does anything--I
don't think they gave it to Mat as a souviner. I think however, that Mat has
wished himself into the hands of the Seanchan since where else can he be free
of Aes Sedai since there are no Aes Sedai in the Seanchan empire. As for being
free of the one power that is impossible but that medallion *may* prevent
channelling from effecting him(although even that is hard to believe). It is
interesting to note that: 1) he has died and is now living again and with his
new memories he is a part of what once was so the second answer has been
fufilled, 2) the symbol of the imperial family of the court of nine moons is
the raven and what does that naginita(or what ever) have on its blade...so when
he is captured he will be sent there and then he gets to meet the grand
daughter and lo and behold the nine moons are bound to the dragon.
>about Rand,
> he now has the two greatest Sa'angreal in the world. history
>dictates that great works can only be done by male and female
>aes sedai working together. Lanfear claims that together he and
>she with the statues can destroy the dark one. Is it too great a
>leap in logic to say that if they could defeat the dark one they
>could also remove the taint? what else is he going to use the statue
>for?
I'm with you all the way. However, I suspect that sa'angreal will probably
play a major part in the last battle as well.
> another thing, every time Rand gets a newer more powerful Sa'angreal,
>he seems to think that with THIS one he can do anything. Anyone
>get the feeling he's wrong? perhaps this belief is just symptomatic
>of using powerful sa'angreal.
Maybe its just me but I don't understand this misconception of Rands
power--when he thinks he can do just about anything this isn't a delusion of
grandure he can do it! Of course survival may be another matter. There is a
huge difference in Rands ability to channel and anyone else alive now. Without
Callendor by himself he is probably the equal of all the forsaken together(or he
will be once he learns to channel properly). At the moment Lanfear could win a
fight so long as it wasn't power versus power like Nyneave vrs. Moghedian(or
however that is spelt) but even she isn't stupid enough to face him with
Callandor(nor for the matter was Ishmeal). Once he learns to channel well its
"game over man" for any forsaken who tries a staight forward attack. As for
the Aes Sedai well just compare what he did at the end of the EotW to what
Moirianne could accomplish with an angreal. Or for that matter what he managed
even after fighting Asmeodean...Lanfear wasn't angry with him she was terrified
because if he had thrown that whatever it was at her instead of between them it
would have been carbon in the wind time for her. As another point when Lews
Therin commited suicide he did it by drawing down enough of the one power to
send a bolt of balefire over a mile into the planets crust--it was probably the
only thing that saved the world. In other words if Ishmeal had not healed him
he might have broken the world beyond repair.
>
>what do you think the wise ones will do when they find out what
>Rand did to Ruidean?
Well considering he exchanged a useless city for a lake of water probably
nothing. The only purpose Ruidean served was to select clan chiefs and as a
screening ground for wise women it is unlikely either of those functions will
be necessary in the future...its also highly likely the ter'angreal in question
survived(the memory one did for sure). Or to address the question another way
what can they do? Slap his wrist, send him to bed without supper? They need
him or else the Aiel will not survive at all what is a city of junk compared
to saving their people? Rand needs their good will but they have alread
acknowledged him as he who comes with the dawn so in a very real way they
follow him now. It is obvious that they are less than slavishly devoted to him
but Rand doesn't need that anyway.
>
>with moiraine using her stone to overhear all Rand's conversations
>(clues given throughout the ride to Alcair Dal) how long will Rand
>be able to keep secret the fact that he is being taught by one of
>the Forsaken? he knows about the dreams, but apparently not about
>moiraine's ability to eavesdrop.
Well since I doubt he is going to be practicing anywhere near the camps(it is a
tad hard to hide what you are doing) thanks to his ability to travel I doubt
that she will overhear anything but since constant dissapearance with the
gleeman will probablly raise Moiraine's suspions. Again the question is so
what if she knows. Moiriane is the ultimate the end justifies the means person
so he could quite likely convince her especially if he reveals that the tie to
the dark one is broken. Where the shield came from probably would not a good
topic of conversation. But while rand needs the wise women of the aiel he does
not need Moiriane so if she objects strenously he has a few options: still
her, flash fry her, or casually mention to a far darias mai that it would be
convient to arange an accident with a garu for her -- end of problem. I doubt
he would do any of that (mearly what I would do if the situation arose...) and
since I don't give Moiraine a life expectancy much past book six it probably
wont come up.
Paul McNeely
NE...@erich.triumf.ca
Zak
>possible spoilers below!!!
>about Rand,
> he now has the two greatest Sa'angreal in the world. history
>dictates that great works can only be done by male and female
>aes sedai working together. Lanfear claims that together he and
>she with the statues can destroy the dark one. Is it too great a
>leap in logic to say that if they could defeat the dark one they
>could also remove the taint? what else is he going to use the statue
>for?
True. Also remember back at the end of Eye....just prior to
Rand channeling the entire Eye, when she was explaining exactly
what the Eye was, Moiraine stated that not all the Aes Sedai in the
world working together could fill a spoon with the One Power, without
men to work with them. So.....with Lafear, who undoubtedly knows
all these neat little tricks, Rand could probably somehow draw off
the taint (which I'm still of the opinion is really Saidar).
Opinions?
--
Daniel John Kelly-Harrity ---------| |--------- "Sooner spit in a
Seattle University ----------------| |--------- Wolf's Eye,
Seattle, Washington ---------------| |--------- than cross an
USA 98122 -------------------------| |--------- Aes Sedai."
"Welcome to All Things Scottish...If it's not Scottish, It's *CRAP*!"
Euan Troup
I think that in fact that it's the opposite problem - that Saidar and
Saidan have been completely separated and that there is no tempering of one by
the other. There is very much a 'war of the sexes' in Jordan's world and I think
it may have gone too far. Also the mark of evil, the Dragon's Claw (seen at the
chapter heads is the dark (or female) half of the yin-yang symbol, and the
other half (I can't remember what it's called) is also an important symbol.
Anyway, the fact that these things are separated holds some clues as to how the
taint may be removed.
Euan Troup, etr...@atnf.csiro.au
..mostly harmless. Disclaimer: I frame no hypotheses.