SF cliches I wish were true...
Keith Morrison
left their subway system in place and fully operational.
Dogged determination can overcome bureaucracy all the time.
Reversing the polarity succeeds in solving every technical problem.
--
Keith
Rick
"Keith Morrison" <kei...@polarnet.ca> wrote in message
news:3CFE95A7...@polarnet.ca...
Humans are "special" in some way that destines them to dominate the
universe.
Interstellar ramjets are possible and not that difficult to build.
Habitable planets with no inconvenient intelligent races on them are
plentiful and nearby.
Aaron P. Brezenski
Since the Revolution, We're All So Much Smarter Now.
Omnipotent beings often hand out omnipotence to lesser entities
as rewards for doing them a favor.
Hot bisexual redhead nymphettes with PhDs are everywhere.
(can it be a cliche if it's only one author?)
--
Aaron Brezenski
Not speaking for my employer in any way
bd
Light speed is for wimps.
It is harmless to tear your particles apart, fling them across space, and
jam them together right when they're getting their first taste of freedom
in years...
Mach 1 = c
Sound needs no air...
--
8:04pm up 5 days, 33 min, 1 user, load average: 3.45, 3.35, 3.05
Mike Schilling
news:adm8m5$3...@news.or.intel.com...
> Hot bisexual redhead nymphettes with PhDs are everywhere.
>
> (can it be a cliche if it's only one author?)
>
Dan Goodman
the original plans.
John Hill
Things I wish were true:
Our minds and/or consciousnesses can go on walkabout, perhaps inside
a computer, perhaps inside Janet Lester.
Lightsabers, even though anyone even slightly clumsy would cut their
own head off with a flick of the wrist.
Dinosaurs on Mars (keeping my fingers crossed).
Things I'm glad are not true, assuming they aren't:
Egan's ensemble theory.
Egan's dust theory.
Egan's TOE theory.[1]
All of Egan's other theories.
JH
[1] No, I don't get my money out of an ATM machine, thanks.
Steve Coltrin
> Things I'm glad are not true, assuming they aren't:
> Egan's dust theory.
How could you possibly test it?
> Egan's TOE theory.
Kozuch theory, or Quantum Graph Theory?[1] I don't see anything too
unpleasant about either.
[1] Lrf, obgu ner qvfcebirq, ohg V ersre gb gurve fhpprffbe gurbevrf.
--
Steve Coltrin spco...@omcl.org
I am not interested in things getting better; what I want is more:
more human beings, more dreams, more history, more consciousness,
more suffering, more joy, more disease, more agony, more rapture,
more evolution, more life. -- from the _Meditations_ of Jin Zenimura
Luke Webber
news:adm8m5$3...@news.or.intel.com...
> Hot bisexual redhead nymphettes with PhDs are everywhere.
Only they're all closely related to you. But they're still hot for you, so
what the hell? <g>
> (can it be a cliche if it's only one author?)
It was a personal cliche of his, and he's well enough known.
Luke
John Hill
> John Hill <john...@fuse.net> writes:
>
>> Things I'm glad are not true, assuming they aren't:
>
>> Egan's dust theory.
>
> How could you possibly test it?
I was wondering the same thing -- I'd almost said "dust hypothesis."
>> Egan's TOE theory.
>
> Kozuch theory, or Quantum Graph Theory?[1] I don't see anything too
> unpleasant about either.
>
> [1] Lrf, obgu ner qvfcebirq, ohg V ersre gb gurve fhpprffbe gurbevrf.
<googling>
Exploiting Kozuch theory was how the heroes flipped universes in
_Diaspora_, right? I guess I followed it well enough, for a layman.
As for the fhpprffbe gurbevrf, if you care to elaborate, please do.
By Egan's TOE theory, I was referring to the ending of _Distress_,
where, IIRC, <spoiler>
vs uhzna rlrf jrer gb rire orubyq gur havslvat Gurbel bs Rireguvat,
gura Fpuebrqvatre'f Png jbhyq tvir ovegu gb Fpuebrqvatre'f Pbj, naq
jr jbhyq nyy genafpraq gb fbzrcynpr Jbaqreshy. Vg jbhyq or shaal vs
vg jrera'g fb qrcerffvat.
As to why it's depressing, I've just started working on a theory of
my own... but that will have to wait -- I've got a paper to finish.
JH
Bryan Derksen
wrote:
>Humans are "special" in some way that destines them to dominate the
>universe.
>Habitable planets with no inconvenient intelligent races on them are
>plentiful and nearby.
Actually, I suspect that both of these things _are_ true. Humanity is
special in that it exists, and all the other intelligent species
within our galaxy don't. :)
Well, that's one of the simpler explanations for the Fermi paradox,
anyway...
mike stone
>
>An organization will operate with absolutely no friction, and according to
>the original plans.
>
>
That would be a _nightmare_
--
Mike Stone - Peterborough England
Last words of King Edward II.
"I always said that Roger Mortimer was a pain in the - - - AAARGHH!!!"
Helgi Briem
<john...@fuse.net> wrote:
> Lightsabers, even though anyone even slightly clumsy
> would cut their own head off with a flick of the wrist.
In all fairness, the Star Wars films make it clear
that anyone without the Force *will* cut off his
own head. Didn't someone unqualified try to use a
lightsabre in one of the films? I seem to recall
something like that, or was that in a spin-off book?
Guiltily admitting to having read some of the spin-off
books. I have an excuse, I'll read anything, even
shampoo bottles and soup cans.
--
Regards, Helgi Briem
helgi AT decode DOT is
michael price
But the big one comes courtesy of George Lucas (although he nicked
it from movie serials): BAD GUYS CAN'T AIM!
Peter Meilinger
: Hot bisexual redhead nymphettes with PhDs are everywhere.
: (can it be a cliche if it's only one author?)
If it provides enough smart, hot bisexual readheaded nymphettes
to go around, it can be any damned thing it wants...
Pete
Sea Wasp
Good and Evil are simple and clearly delineated, and the problems of
the world can be solved by a small band of good-hearted adventurers.
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
http://www.wizvax.net/seawasp/index.htm
Nyrath the nearly wise
>>From: Dan Goodman dsg...@visi.com
>>An organization will operate with absolutely no friction, and according to
>>the original plans.
>
> That would be a _nightmare_
Yes, that was the premise behind Frank Herbert's
Bureau of Sabotage.
Mary K. Kuhner
>>An organization will operate with absolutely no friction, and according to
>>the original plans.
>That would be a _nightmare_
In Frank Herbert's _Whipping Star_ and _The Dosadi Experiment_,
the protagonist works for the Bureau of Sabotage, a group chartered
to ensure that this nightmare never happens. Apparently their
society found a way to remove the grit from the wheels of bureacracy,
and found that it then turned into a juggernaut.
Mary Kuhner mkku...@eskimo.com
mike stone
>
>>>From: Dan Goodman dsg...@visi.com
>
>>>An organization will operate with absolutely no friction, and according to
>>>the original plans.
>
>>That would be a _nightmare_
>
>In Frank Herbert's _Whipping Star_ and _The Dosadi Experiment_,
>the protagonist works for the Bureau of Sabotage, a group chartered
>to ensure that this nightmare never happens. Apparently their
>society found a way to remove the grit from the wheels of bureacracy,
>and found that it then turned into a juggernaut.
>
And Orwell's 1984 was, in essence, a Soviet system that really _worked_.
Any really efficient regime scares the bejazus out of people. There have been
mercifully few of them, but the Kingdom of Prussia often came close, which I
suspect was what made it so feared and hated
John Duncan Yoyo
Han Solo did OK when he gutted the TanTan (snow horsie) to keep Luke
warm in ESB.
------------------------
John Duncan Yoyo
Helgi Briem
<john-dun...@cox.net> wrote:
>} > Lightsabers, even though anyone even slightly clumsy
>} > would cut their own head off with a flick of the wrist.
>} In all fairness, the Star Wars films make it clear
>} that anyone without the Force *will* cut off his
>} own head. Didn't someone unqualified try to use a
>} lightsabre in one of the films?
>Han Solo did OK when he gutted the TanTan (snow horsie) to
> keep Luke warm in ESB.
Yes, but he wasn't trying to fight with it. I might be
able to cut a log with a power saw, but wave it around
trying to cut people is a different ballgame.
William T. Hyde
> The Elder Race who has passed beyond the veil but has thoughtfully
> left their subway system in place and fully operational.
But I have no other explanation for the Toronto
subway. The current inhabitants certainly couldn't
build it.
>
> Dogged determination can overcome bureaucracy all the time.
OK.
>
> Reversing the polarity succeeds in solving every technical problem.
NO! Reverse it twice!
William Hyde
EOS Department
Duke University
Peter Meilinger
: } In all fairness, the Star Wars films make it clear
: } that anyone without the Force *will* cut off his
: } own head. Didn't someone unqualified try to use a
: } lightsabre in one of the films? I seem to recall
: } something like that, or was that in a spin-off book?
: } Guiltily admitting to having read some of the spin-off
: } books. I have an excuse, I'll read anything, even
: } shampoo bottles and soup cans.
: Han Solo did OK when he gutted the TanTan (snow horsie) to keep Luke
: warm in ESB.
He wasn't trying to fight with it, of course. I'd say the fact
that Luke managed not to kill himself when first using a saber
while blindfolded was quite an achievement, though.
Pete
Ross TenEyck
Han Solo used Luke's lightsaber to cut open his ton-ton's
belly, in the beginning of _Empire._ Granted, it wasn't in
a fight situation, but he didn't seem to be in any danger of
slicing his own head off.
--
================== http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~teneyck ==================
Ross TenEyck Seattle, WA \ Light, kindled in the furnace of hydrogen;
ten...@alumni.caltech.edu \ like smoke, sunlight carries the hot-metal
Are wa yume? Soretomo maboroshi? \ tang of Creation's forge.
Keith Morrison
>>>>An organization will operate with absolutely no friction, and according to
>>>>the original plans.
>>>>
>>>That would be a _nightmare_
>>>
>>In Frank Herbert's _Whipping Star_ and _The Dosadi Experiment_,
>>the protagonist works for the Bureau of Sabotage, a group chartered
>>to ensure that this nightmare never happens. Apparently their
>>society found a way to remove the grit from the wheels of bureacracy,
>>and found that it then turned into a juggernaut.
>
> And Orwell's 1984 was, in essence, a Soviet system that really _worked_.
>
> Any really efficient regime scares the bejazus out of people. There have been
> mercifully few of them, but the Kingdom of Prussia often came close, which I
> suspect was what made it so feared and hated
Any really efficient system is setting itself up for its own downfall.
There's a current economic thought that getting really, really efficient
can actually end up being bad for business because there's no slack
(which is normally called "inefficiency") that can be called on if
something goes wrong.
An example recently cited was the US-Canadian border last September.
A lot of auto plants in the US use the more efficient just-in-time
system for getting parts from Canadian factories. Everyone went on
about how efficient this was, not having to store unneeded inventory
in the US, thus saving money.
And then the border, essentially, closed. There was a massive scramble
as companies went after politicians to get it reopened as fast as possible
because the US plants would have to shut down due to lack of parts and
they had none in inventory.
Didn't Vinge extrapolate this to an entire society in one of his books?
--
Keith
Karl M. Syring
> he...@decode.is (Helgi Briem) writes:
> >On Wed, 05 Jun 2002 21:28:09 -0500, John Hill
> ><john...@fuse.net> wrote:
>
> >> Lightsabers, even though anyone even slightly clumsy
> >> would cut their own head off with a flick of the wrist.
>
> >In all fairness, the Star Wars films make it clear
> >that anyone without the Force *will* cut off his
> >own head. Didn't someone unqualified try to use a
> >lightsabre in one of the films? I seem to recall
> >something like that, or was that in a spin-off book?
> >Guiltily admitting to having read some of the spin-off
> >books. I have an excuse, I'll read anything, even
> >shampoo bottles and soup cans.
>
> Han Solo used Luke's lightsaber to cut open his ton-ton's
> belly, in the beginning of _Empire._ Granted, it wasn't in
> a fight situation, but he didn't seem to be in any danger of
> slicing his own head off.
It is just a myth planted by interested parties. Avoids loss of equipment
caused by theft, you know.
Karl M. Syring
--
If God had wanted people to go into space, He would’ve given them more
money.
-- http://www.scientificamerican.com/explorations/2002/052702nasa/
Lee DeRaud
Not to mention managing not to slice through vital bits of the
Millennium Falcon's wiring and plumbing...
Lee
Steinn Sigurdsson
> The Elder Race who has passed beyond the veil but has thoughtfully
> left their subway system in place and fully operational.
> Dogged determination can overcome bureaucracy all the time.
> Reversing the polarity succeeds in solving every technical problem.
You can build a 4 person "sedan" space ship in your garage
that can support your crew comfortably while you
accelerate at a constant 1 G for many days, using fuels
ordered commercially in small tanker loads
A small low energy widget can open access to hyperspace/wormholes
that provide effective FTL travel
There is water on Mars.
There are non-terrestrial life forms in the solar system
James Nicoll
Steinn Sigurdsson <ste...@najma.astro.psu.edu> wrote:
>Keith Morrison <kei...@polarnet.ca> writes:
>
>> The Elder Race who has passed beyond the veil but has thoughtfully
>> left their subway system in place and fully operational.
>
>> Dogged determination can overcome bureaucracy all the time.
>
>> Reversing the polarity succeeds in solving every technical problem.
>
>You can build a 4 person "sedan" space ship in your garage
>that can support your crew comfortably while you
>accelerate at a constant 1 G for many days, using fuels
>ordered commercially in small tanker loads
And nobody thinks to take one of these runabouts, zip it
up to 100,000 km/s and run it into the DMV office that made them
wait for six hours before closing just as the person got to the
front of the line.
I did a calculation which seemed to show that if one
replaced the airplanes used in 911 with chemical rockets designed
to take the same number of people to antipodal destinations
(the ballistic transports we were supposed to have by now) and
used them just as the aircraft were, the overpressure from two
0.2 kt explosions would be enough to bring down both towers at
once rather than over an hour or so as well leaving pretty much
only the Millennium Hotel unaffected by direct effects (Glass
would shatter up to Canal Street so it wouldn't have any windows
left but the structure should be solid until stuff starts falling
onto it).
Nuclear thermal was worse, because although the ships'
reactors could be assumed to be designed to not leak in the
event of a crash the pure H2 fuel would mix with the O2 in the
air for an even larger bang than the chemical rocket. The
absolute worst was a Forwardian Mirror Matter rocket, with a
5 microgram speck of antimatter heating a much larger mass
of matter (1). There you get the combustion of the reaction
mass combined with the gamma flash (2) from the speck killing
people up to 1500 meters away. Call it 100,000 to 140,000 dead,
depending on assumptions.
I see this as a serious problem for rocket transport,
especially since someone has pioneered the art of running
large transports into immobile things. Plus rockets leaving
from Terrestrial sites only give the authorities about five
minutes warning something very wrong has happened. Combine
that with the likely reluctance of people to ride something
with self-destruct charges (3) and I can't see governments
being willing to license ballistic transports.
1: This is the obligatory and probably useless footnote which
points out that this is _not_ a total annihilation drive.
2: Well, pions first but then gamma rays.
3: Hey, maybe that's why all SF movie ships come with scuttling
charges installed!
>A small low energy widget can open access to hyperspace/wormholes
>that provide effective FTL travel
>
>There is water on Mars.
Check. It seems to be fairly solid, though.
>There are non-terrestrial life forms in the solar system
Answer unclear. Try again later.
Default User
> In Frank Herbert's _Whipping Star_ and _The Dosadi Experiment_,
> the protagonist works for the Bureau of Sabotage, a group chartered
> to ensure that this nightmare never happens. Apparently their
> society found a way to remove the grit from the wheels of bureacracy,
> and found that it then turned into a juggernaut.
The premise sounds rather interesting, how were the actual books? The
libary has them, so I might throw them on my reading list if they are
decent.
Brian Rodenborn
Rick
news:rx7n0u8...@najma.astro.psu.edu...
> There is water on Mars.
>
Well, apparently there is.
Sea Wasp
>
> There is water on Mars.
This one is apparently true -- in spades. Do a search on some recent
articles. Not only does current evidence indicate a huge amount of ice
-- enough to submerge the entire planet around 500 meters deep in
water -- but it appears that LIQUID water may still on occasion flow.
Do a google on "water on mars" for recent stuff.
Chris Clayton
michael price wrote:
>
> But the big one comes courtesy of George Lucas (although he nicked
> it from movie serials): BAD GUYS CAN'T AIM!
No, no, you don't understand. Lucas' stormtroopers use guns
with automated aiming systems, and there's a mask error in the
controlling ROM. The fix is identified, but the Engineering
Change Notice has been working it's way through the Galactic
bureaucracy for decades now.
--
Chris "We'll catch it in the next bug fix release..." Clayton
cla...@di.org
Urban Fredriksson
>> In Frank Herbert's _Whipping Star_ and _The Dosadi Experiment_,
>The premise sounds rather interesting, how were the actual books?
I think they're not just Herbert's best, they're both
really good.
--
Urban Fredriksson http://www.canit.se/%7Egriffon/
I must follow the people. Am I not their leader?
-- Benjamin Disraeli
Sean O'Hara
>
> The Elder Race who has passed beyond the veil but has thoughtfully
> left their subway system in place and fully operational.
>
--
Sean O辿ara
"Took up a noble cause called the Clone Wars
Cuz life's not all about girls and cars and
Getting f***ed up in f***ed up bars."
--MC Chris, "Fett's Vette" http://www.mcchris.com
Steve Hilberg
> Dinosaurs on Mars (keeping my fingers crossed).
Mars has Martians, the dinosaurs are on _Venus_, silly. Who do you
think keeps stepping on all our space probes?
--
Steve Hilberg <Necromancer> CITES Workstation Support Group
<hil...@uiuc.edu> KB9TEV
Member, APAGear I don't even know what CITES stands
http://www.apagear.org for, so I don't speak for them.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"As we were forged we shall return, perhaps some day. | VNV Nation,
I will remember you and wonder who we were." | "Further"
Taki Kogoma
to rec.arts.sf.written decree...
>michael price wrote:
>> But the big one comes courtesy of George Lucas (although he nicked
>> it from movie serials): BAD GUYS CAN'T AIM!
>
>No, no, you don't understand. Lucas' stormtroopers use guns
>with automated aiming systems, and there's a mask error in the
>controlling ROM. The fix is identified, but the Engineering
>Change Notice has been working it's way through the Galactic
>bureaucracy for decades now.
Ah. And the rebel alliance along with select members of the fringe
(Solo, Chewbacca, Calrissian) already have the patches so when they
use captured imperial weapons, they work properly.
--
Capt. Gym Z. Quirk | "I'll get a life when someone
(Known to some as Taki Kogoma) | demonstrates that it would be
quirk @ swcp.com | superior to what I have now."
Veteran of the '91 sf-lovers re-org. | -- Gym Quirk
Steve Hilberg
>John Hill <john...@fuse.net> wrote:
>> Lightsabers, even though anyone even slightly clumsy
>> would cut their own head off with a flick of the wrist.
>In all fairness, the Star Wars films make it clear
>that anyone without the Force *will* cut off his
>own head. Didn't someone unqualified try to use a
>lightsabre in one of the films? I seem to recall
>something like that, or was that in a spin-off book?
>Guiltily admitting to having read some of the spin-off
>books. I have an excuse, I'll read anything, even
>shampoo bottles and soup cans.
The only time I think we see that in the movies is when Han Solo
uses Luke's lightsaber to cut open the belly of the tauntaun and
stuff him inside so he won't die of frostbite at the beginning of
ESB. Presumably anyone can use a lightsaber as a standard cutting
tool, or even a normal sword, without automatically cutting his
head off. I imagine if you tried doing some of the more complex
maneuvers, like blocking blaster shots and doing wild flips, you
might not be so lucky....
Sean O'Hara
>
> Steve Coltrin wrote:
>
> > John Hill <john...@fuse.net> writes:
> >
> > Kozuch theory, or Quantum Graph Theory?[1] I don't see anything too
> > unpleasant about either.
> >
> > [1] Lrf, obgu ner qvfcebirq, ohg V ersre gb gurve fhpprffbe gurbevrf.
>
> <googling>
> Exploiting Kozuch theory was how the heroes flipped universes in
> _Diaspora_, right? I guess I followed it well enough, for a layman.
>
> As for the fhpprffbe gurbevrf, if you care to elaborate, please do.
>
Spoilers for "Diaspora."
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Classical Kozuch Theory simply stated that sub-atomic particles are
wormholes that have six extra dimensions that we can't see. Then
Our Heros tried to construct a traversable wormhole and the theory
falls apart.
Modified Kozuch Theory came about when someone realized that
Kozuch's math actually suggests that particles have 12 extra
dimensions. Some clues left by aliens showed how to create
wormholes into a higher universe.
Further revelations showed that there are actually an infinite
number of universes alongside ours, subtly interacting with our
space-time. At that point Kozuch Theory pretty much becomes a
TOE.
Jim
he...@decode.is (Helgi Briem) wrote:
> In all fairness, the Star Wars films make it clear
> that anyone without the Force *will* cut off his
> own head. Didn't someone unqualified try to use a
> lightsabre in one of the films? I seem to recall
> something like that, or was that in a spin-off book?
> Guiltily admitting to having read some of the spin-off
> books. I have an excuse, I'll read anything, even
> shampoo bottles and soup cans.
> --
> Regards, Helgi Briem
> helgi AT decode DOT is
The thing I don't get is how the heck do they keep the end of the blade
from shooting off into infinity? Try shining a laser on a wall and
making it stop half way. Doesn't work.
Jim
--
"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend.
Inside a dog it's too dark to read."
- Groucho Marx
Steinn Sigurdsson
> Steinn Sigurdsson wrote:
> > There is water on Mars.
> This one is apparently true -- in spades. Do a search on some recent
> articles. Not only does current evidence indicate a huge amount of ice
> -- enough to submerge the entire planet around 500 meters deep in
> water -- but it appears that LIQUID water may still on occasion flow.
> Do a google on "water on mars" for recent stuff.
I know.
I'm still waiting on #4
We're clearly not ideologically sound enough
to ever get #1 though
Karl M. Syring
>
> The thing I don't get is how the heck do they keep the end of the blade
> from shooting off into infinity? Try shining a laser on a wall and
> making it stop half way. Doesn't work.
There is a small wormhole whose one end is projected at the tip of the
saber. The other end is locked to a local septic tank.
Karl M. Syring
Mary K. Kuhner
_Whipping Star_ left me cold. It seemed to tackle a whole bunch
of interesting things, but none of the interesting *parts* of those
interesting things. What is a sentient star *like* psychologically?
_Dosadi Experiment_ was frustrating but probably worth reading. The
courtroom scene in an alien legal system is cool, though I didn't
feel I had enough information to understand it very well. If you
like political intrigue and machination, this one's worth a try.
Neither one is really about the Bureau of Sabotage, though, in the
way that my comment above suggests. As far as I know Herbert never
wrote anything just directly following the plotlines from that
premise.
Mary Kuhner mkku...@eskimo.com
Rick
news:art-070B39.1...@nntp.concentric.net...
> The thing I don't get is how the heck do they keep the end of the blade
> from shooting off into infinity? Try shining a laser on a wall and
> making it stop half way. Doesn't work.
>
Only way I could figure to handwave it is that it's not really a laser, it's
some sort of plasma held in place by some sort of magnetic field (which
allows the binding of the swords when they fight).
John Schilling
>In article <rx7n0u8...@najma.astro.psu.edu>,
>Steinn Sigurdsson <ste...@najma.astro.psu.edu> wrote:
>>You can build a 4 person "sedan" space ship in your garage
>>that can support your crew comfortably while you
>>accelerate at a constant 1 G for many days, using fuels
>>ordered commercially in small tanker loads
> And nobody thinks to take one of these runabouts, zip it
>up to 100,000 km/s and run it into the DMV office that made them
>wait for six hours before closing just as the person got to the
>front of the line.
> I did a calculation which seemed to show that if one
>replaced the airplanes used in 911 with chemical rockets designed
>to take the same number of people to antipodal destinations
>(the ballistic transports we were supposed to have by now) and
>used them just as the aircraft were, the overpressure from two
>0.2 kt explosions would be enough to bring down both towers at
>once...
I suspect a common miscalculation here. The suborbital rocket plane
that carries the same number of people to antipodal destinations as
a 300-passenger 747-SP, is not a 300-passenger rocket plane. It is
a 25-passenger rocket plane that makes twelve round trips while the
subsonic behemoth is doing one. Maybe fifty passengers and six trips,
if we assume the rocket plane is a hangar queen with only half the
duty cycle of a conventional airliner, but that's not the SF cliche
and it isn't likely economic reality.
Your 0.2 kt should be 0.015 or maybe 0.03 kT, and *that* assumes you
can maintain hypersonic speeds down to sea level without tearing the
airframe to pieces. The way such vehicles are actually designed,
you'd have a featherweight commuter airliner that maxes out at low
supersonic speeds. You'd be better off not even trying for speed,
just doing the kamikaze bit right after takeoff when you are nice and
slow and laden with fuel - exact same deal as what actually happened,
except the energy content of the fuel will be lower.
--
*John Schilling * "Anything worth doing, *
*Member:AIAA,NRA,ACLU,SAS,LP * is worth doing for money" *
*Chief Scientist & General Partner * -13th Rule of Acquisition *
*White Elephant Research, LLC * "There is no substitute *
*schi...@spock.usc.edu * for success" *
*661-951-9107 or 661-275-6795 * -58th Rule of Acquisition *
Default User
>
> In article <3CFF928E...@company.com>,
> Default User <first...@company.com> wrote:
> >"Mary K. Kuhner" wrote:
>
> >> In Frank Herbert's _Whipping Star_ and _The Dosadi Experiment_,
>
> >The premise sounds rather interesting, how were the actual books?
>
> I think they're not just Herbert's best, they're both
> really good.
Ok, I'll chuck onto the list. With all the suggestions I've had from the
kind folks here, I have enough to keep me going for quite some time.
Thanks.
Brian Rodenborn
David Johnston
>from shooting off into infinity? Try shining a laser on a wall and
>making it stop half way. Doesn't
You may not have noticed, but lightsabre blades are solid. You can parry with
them. I have always assumed that they are some kind of forcefield, rather than
an energy beam, and forcefields, being imaginary have whatever qualities the
author wants them to have.
Justin Fang
Keith Morrison <kei...@polarnet.ca> wrote:
>>>>>An organization will operate with absolutely no friction, and according
>>>>>to the original plans.
>>>>That would be a _nightmare_
>Any really efficient system is setting itself up for its own downfall.
>There's a current economic thought that getting really, really efficient
>can actually end up being bad for business because there's no slack
>(which is normally called "inefficiency") that can be called on if
>something goes wrong.
[snip example]
>Didn't Vinge extrapolate this to an entire society in one of his books?
Yes, in _A Deepness in the Sky_, it's what kills civilizations that avoid
all other causes of failure. There's a hard ceiling on the maximum
technology level available (no FTL, no true AI), so technological progress
eventually reaches the point of diminishing returns. Civilizations that
last long enough find themselves expending ever-increasing amounts of effort
on ever-smaller efficiency gains. The economy becomes so optimized and
interdependent that an unforeseen event in any one part causes cascading
failures throughout the entire system. The society's attempts to avoid this
problem can, at best, only delay it for a while. At worst, they trigger the
fall immediately (e.g. "ubiquitous law enforcement", where every computer on
the planet is turned into an extension of the government).
Total collapse can be averted by massive intervention from "outside"--with
no FTL, the maximum size of an economy is usually a solar system, so other
systems wouldn't be at the same point in the cycle and thus can have margin
to spare. However, there is only one recorded case where this happened
(and that largely due to coincidence). This leads to the great dream of the
the primary organizer of that effort: to create an interstellar organization
dedicated to preventing the fall of stellar civilizations.
--
Justin Fang (jus...@panix.com)
James Nicoll
John Schilling <schi...@spock.usc.edu> wrote:
>jdni...@panix.com (James Nicoll) writes:
>
>> I did a calculation which seemed to show that if one
>>replaced the airplanes used in 911 with chemical rockets designed
>>to take the same number of people to antipodal destinations
>>(the ballistic transports we were supposed to have by now) and
>>used them just as the aircraft were, the overpressure from two
>>0.2 kt explosions would be enough to bring down both towers at
>>once...
>
>I suspect a common miscalculation here. The suborbital rocket plane
>that carries the same number of people to antipodal destinations as
>a 300-passenger 747-SP, is not a 300-passenger rocket plane. It is
>a 25-passenger rocket plane that makes twelve round trips while the
>subsonic behemoth is doing one. Maybe fifty passengers and six trips,
>if we assume the rocket plane is a hangar queen with only half the
>duty cycle of a conventional airliner, but that's not the SF cliche
>and it isn't likely economic reality.
That rebuttal seems to rely on a finer knowledge of the limits
of a current non-existant market than I have.
-or-
What makes you think there won't be enough people wanting to
do the US-Asian Tiger/US-Australian route to make the bigger ships
reasonable?
>Your 0.2 kt should be 0.015 or maybe 0.03 kT, and *that* assumes you
>can maintain hypersonic speeds down to sea level without tearing the
>airframe to pieces. The way such vehicles are actually designed,
>you'd have a featherweight commuter airliner that maxes out at low
>supersonic speeds.
Are we talking the same thing? Short acceleration, fractional
orbit, most of the trip in free fall, that sort of deal?
> You'd be better off not even trying for speed,
>just doing the kamikaze bit right after takeoff when you are nice and
>slow and laden with fuel - exact same deal as what actually happened,
>except the energy content of the fuel will be lower.
Speed is actually counter-productive. Although rockets are not
as inefficient as some would like to believe, most of the energy still
ends up in the exhaust (At least 60%, if my BOTEC is correct). Like the
aircraft used on 911, you want this thing to land as fully fueled as
possible. The damage comes from the ground level mixing and ignition of
the fuel, not kinetic energy of the ballistic transport. In fact, if
I designed a BT I'd make it so you _couldn't_ pull off 4 km/s deep in
the atmosphere without the craft disassembling, just to discourage
kamikaze runs.
Robert Sneddon
<myrna...@aol.comspamless> writes
>
>You may not have noticed, but lightsabre blades are solid. You can parry with
>them. I have always assumed that they are some kind of forcefield, rather than
>an energy beam, and forcefields, being imaginary have whatever qualities the
>author wants them to have.
I figured they were based on Niven's variable-sword (spooled
monomolecular filament) combined with a stasis field to make it
indestructible. In the handle is a laser, and at the end of the
monofilament is a small stasis mirror. The laser energy bounces back and
forward between the mirror and the source in the handle, until it
intersects something (like atoms of air, causing the characteristic
glow).
--
Robert Sneddon nojay (at) nojay (dot) fsnet (dot) co (dot) uk
Nyrath the nearly wise
> Neither one is really about the Bureau of Sabotage, though, in the
> way that my comment above suggests. As far as I know Herbert never
> wrote anything just directly following the plotlines from that
> premise.
There was something slighty more along that premise in
Herbert's "The Tactful Saboteur", collected in
THE WORLDS OF FRANK HERBERT.
Nyrath the nearly wise
> I see this as a serious problem for rocket transport,
> especially since someone has pioneered the art of running
> large transports into immobile things. Plus rockets leaving
> from Terrestrial sites only give the authorities about five
> minutes warning something very wrong has happened. Combine
> that with the likely reluctance of people to ride something
> with self-destruct charges (3) and I can't see governments
> being willing to license ballistic transports.
There was a short story that kinda sorta explored this,
but I'm going blank on the name.
I thought it was "Industrial Accident" by G. Harry Stein,
but that's not it.
In the story, a passenger spacecraft on the Mars-Earth
run has an engine failure. Drama ensues when Earth
authorities calculate the kiloton equivalent of the
spacecraft's kinetic energy.
Joseph Michael Bay
I hate when my Schwartz gets tangled.
Nobody says it's a laser, do they?
--
Joseph M. Bay Lamont Sanford Junior University
Putting the "harm" in molecular pharmacology since 1998
t3H quIc/< 6roWn Ph0x0r jUmP3D ovER T3h 14zY do9 !( @|=>
Do you like http://www.stanford.edu/~jmbay gladiator movies?
Thomas Yan
Right. Which leads me to think that
***Spoiler for Star Wars Episode II ***
That the weight of wielder is relevant. In particular, use of the Force
to brace oneself may be required if one is short, green, and hairy, and
presumably less than half the mass of one's opponent.
Thomas Yan
Whipping Star is useful for background for the other book, but I'm not
as fond of it. As Mary said, the idea of Calebans (sentient stars) was
interesting, but the execution wasn't so hot.
I am very fond of The Dosadi Experiment. Unlike Mary, I didn't find it
frustrating. I do agree that the court scene was cool. Hm. In some
ways, the book faintly reminds me of the recent Star Wars movies (I &
II) and "Memento" -- someone thinks he pretty much know what's going on,
and then learns ....
Terry Austin
precludes reserve margin from being part of it. Sloppy thinking,
and poor understanding of real life chaotic systems.
Terry Austin
Konrad Gaertner
>
> "Ross TenEyck" <ten...@alumnae.caltech.edu> schrieb
> > he...@decode.is (Helgi Briem) writes:
> > >On Wed, 05 Jun 2002 21:28:09 -0500, John Hill
> > ><john...@fuse.net> wrote:
> >
> > >> Lightsabers, even though anyone even slightly clumsy
> > >> would cut their own head off with a flick of the wrist.
> >
> > >that anyone without the Force *will* cut off his
> > >own head. Didn't someone unqualified try to use a
> > >lightsabre in one of the films? I seem to recall
> > >something like that, or was that in a spin-off book?
> > >Guiltily admitting to having read some of the spin-off
> > >books. I have an excuse, I'll read anything, even
> > >shampoo bottles and soup cans.
> >
> > belly, in the beginning of _Empire._ Granted, it wasn't in
> > a fight situation, but he didn't seem to be in any danger of
> > slicing his own head off.
>
> It is just a myth planted by interested parties. Avoids loss of equipment
> caused by theft, you know.
ObWritten: Aahz's explanation of magical curses in _Another Fine Myth_.
--KG
Steve Coltrin
FTL is possible.
--
Steve Coltrin spco...@omcl.org
I am not interested in things getting better; what I want is more:
more human beings, more dreams, more history, more consciousness,
more suffering, more joy, more disease, more agony, more rapture,
more evolution, more life. -- from the _Meditations_ of Jin Zenimura
Joseph Michael Bay
>David Johnston <myrna...@aol.comspamless> wrote:
>> You may not have noticed, but lightsabre blades are solid. You can parry
>> with them. I have always assumed that they are some kind of forcefield,
>> rather than an energy beam, and forcefields, being imaginary have whatever
>> qualities the author wants them to have.
>Right. Which leads me to think that
>***Spoiler for Star Wars Episode II ***
>
>That the weight of wielder is relevant. In particular, use of the Force
>to brace oneself may be required if one is short, green, and hairy, and
>presumably less than half the mass of one's opponent.
Judge him by his mass, do you?
Ross TenEyck
>On 6 Jun 2002 15:36:43 GMT, Peter Meilinger <mell...@bu.edu> wrote:
[Light sabers, inflicting personal injury with]
>>He wasn't trying to fight with it, of course. I'd say the fact
>>that Luke managed not to kill himself when first using a saber
>>while blindfolded was quite an achievement, though.
>Not to mention managing not to slice through vital bits of the
>Millennium Falcon's wiring and plumbing...
One of my little annoyances with Episode I: at one point, we
see Qui-Gon's light saber close up, and the activator is a red
button sticking out of the side. The toy has the same design,
and I can tell you that experience with the toy confirms what
ought to be obvious from inspection: that is an incredibly stupid
design. It is virtually impossible to fight with that thing
without accidentally turning it off every few seconds; and nearly
as impossible to handle it without accidentally turning it on.
A real light saber would need an embedded switch in the hilt,
with a safety cover. Or better yet, a completely internal switch,
manipulated with the Force.
You do NOT want these things being inadvertantly turned on while
swinging from your belt.
--
================== http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~teneyck ==================
Ross TenEyck Seattle, WA \ Light, kindled in the furnace of hydrogen;
ten...@alumni.caltech.edu \ like smoke, sunlight carries the hot-metal
Are wa yume? Soretomo maboroshi? \ tang of Creation's forge.
Ross TenEyck
According to www.starwars.com:
Lightsabers have changed little in the thousands of years
of their employ by the Jedi Knights. Those who believe the
Jedi order began on the ancient world of Ossus point to the
abundance of Adegan crystals in the system as proof. These
crystals are ideal for the creation of lightsabers, as they
focus the energy released from a saber's power cell into the
tight, blade-like beam. Early lightsabers did not have self-
contained power cells, and were instead connected by a
conducting cable to a belt-worn power pack.
Once unleashed, the power channels through a positively
charged continuous energy lens at the center of the handle.
The beam then arcs circumferentially back to a negatively
charged high energy flux aperture. A superconductor transfers
the power from the flux aperture to the power cell. As a result,
a lightsaber only expends power when its blade cuts through
something. So efficient is the blade, that it does not radiate
heat unless it comes into contact with something.
The blade's color depends on the nature of the jewel it springs
from, and while its length is fixed in the case of a single
jewel lightsaber, lightsabers equipped with multiple crystals
can have their length varied by rotating a knob that allows
the focusing crystal activator to subtly modify the refraction
pattern between the gems.
...which seems to explain it all: light sabers work by <tech>.
But we knew that already :)
David Silberstein
>see Qui-Gon's light saber close up, and the activator is a red
>button sticking out of the side. The toy has the same design,
>and I can tell you that experience with the toy confirms what
>ought to be obvious from inspection: that is an incredibly stupid
>design. It is virtually impossible to fight with that thing
>without accidentally turning it off every few seconds; and nearly
>as impossible to handle it without accidentally turning it on.
>
>A real light saber would need an embedded switch in the hilt,
>with a safety cover. Or better yet, a completely internal switch,
>manipulated with the Force.
>
>You do NOT want these things being inadvertantly turned on while
>swinging from your belt.
>
OBfanwank retcon: That's not the on/off switch, that's the manual
safety interlock. :-)
( Or the booby trap (de)activator. )
Shane Stezelberger
<kei...@polarnet.ca> wrote:
>Reversing the polarity succeeds in solving every technical problem.
Not quite every. Sometimes you gotta remodulate the emitters, too.
--
Shane Stezelberger
sstezel at erols dot kom
Laurel, MD
Keith Morrison
> One of my little annoyances with Episode I: at one point, we
> see Qui-Gon's light saber close up, and the activator is a red
> button sticking out of the side. The toy has the same design,
> and I can tell you that experience with the toy confirms what
> ought to be obvious from inspection: that is an incredibly stupid
> design. It is virtually impossible to fight with that thing
> without accidentally turning it off every few seconds; and nearly
> as impossible to handle it without accidentally turning it on.
>
> A real light saber would need an embedded switch in the hilt,
> with a safety cover. Or better yet, a completely internal switch,
> manipulated with the Force.
>
> You do NOT want these things being inadvertantly turned on while
> swinging from your belt.
"Reason for no Jedi can love there is. Find out eventually
you will."
--
Keith
Brenda W. Clough
ROFL! Keith, you are a great man.
Brenda
--
---------
Brenda W. Clough
Read my novella "May Be Some Time"
Complete at http://www.analogsf.com/0202/maybesometime.html
My web page is at http://www.sff.net/people/Brenda/
Tony Zbaraschuk
> "Mary K. Kuhner" wrote:
>
> > In Frank Herbert's _Whipping Star_ and _The Dosadi Experiment_,
> > to ensure that this nightmare never happens. Apparently their
> > society found a way to remove the grit from the wheels of bureacracy,
> > and found that it then turned into a juggernaut.
>
> The premise sounds rather interesting, how were the actual books? The
> libary has them, so I might throw them on my reading list if they are
> decent.
I thought that _Whipping Star_ was so-so; some interesting stuff going
on, but it didn't really repay re-reading.
_The Dosadi Experiment_ was a gripping masterpiece, which I re-read
every couple of years. A lot of very thoughtful stuff about society,
though it suffers a little bit from Herbert's tendency to assume
that if some stress is good and produces strength, more is better,
and loads and loads of it will produce the Ubermensch, instead of
resulting in nasty societal collapse and general catastrophe like
Somalia or Lebanon.
The Gowachin legal system is very intriguing even if I suspect I can't
quite grasp some of its premises, and Jessica is such a fascinating
character.
There was also at least one short story about Jorj X. McKie and
the Bureau of Sabotage (I can't remember the name, but I think it
was in _The Book of Frank Herbert_), which focused a bit more on
the Bureau and its internal workings.
Tony Z
Ethan Merritt
<how...@brazee.net> wrote:
>
>On 6-Jun-2002, Default User <first...@company.com> wrote:
>
>> > In Frank Herbert's _Whipping Star_ and _The Dosadi Experiment_,
>> > the protagonist works for the Bureau of Sabotage, a group chartered
>> > to ensure that this nightmare never happens. Apparently their
>> > society found a way to remove the grit from the wheels of bureacracy,
>> > and found that it then turned into a juggernaut.
>>
>> The premise sounds rather interesting, how were the actual books? The
>> decent.
>
>The Dosadi Experiment is my second favorite Herbert novel (behind Under
>Pressure). But he also had a couple of stories based upon The Bureau of
>Sabotage.
Almost complete agreement from my side. _The Dosadi Experiment_ is my
second favorite Herbert, but I would have placed _The Santaroga Barrier_
first. _Barrier_ is quite atypical of Herbert, telling the story of
strange goings on in a small town noted for its cheese production.
--
Ethan A Merritt
Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes
> Han Solo used Luke's lightsaber to cut open his ton-ton's
> belly, in the beginning of _Empire._ Granted, it wasn't in
> a fight situation, but he didn't seem to be in any danger of
> slicing his own head off.
In a long-running Star Wars RPG campaign, in our band of mostly
smugglers, drug dealers, and criminals who occasionally claimed to be
rebels (and still blew up a lot of Imperial facilities, so who was going
to argue with us?), I think all but one person had some kind of
lightsaber-type tool for cutting doors into walls, etc. As long as you
used 'em carefully, with the proper respect you give to any power tool,
they're perfectly safe. And anyway, they have cybernetics for most body
parts if you do fumble.
--
<a href="http://kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu/~kamikaze/"> Mark Hughes </a>
"No one is safe. We will print no letters to the editor. We will give no
space to opposing points of view. They are wrong. The Underground Grammarian
is at war and will give the enemy nothing but battle." -TUG, v1n1
Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes
> I see this as a serious problem for rocket transport,
> especially since someone has pioneered the art of running
> large transports into immobile things. Plus rockets leaving
> from Terrestrial sites only give the authorities about five
> minutes warning something very wrong has happened. Combine
> that with the likely reluctance of people to ride something
> with self-destruct charges (3) and I can't see governments
> being willing to license ballistic transports.
Okay, so what if we put all the buildings on treads so they can dodge?
Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes
> "Mary K. Kuhner" wrote:
>> In Frank Herbert's _Whipping Star_ and _The Dosadi Experiment_,
>> the protagonist works for the Bureau of Sabotage, a group chartered
>> to ensure that this nightmare never happens. Apparently their
>> society found a way to remove the grit from the wheels of bureacracy,
>> and found that it then turned into a juggernaut.
> The premise sounds rather interesting, how were the actual books? The
> decent.
Herbert's work varied from merely bizarre, to brilliant and bizarre.
As others have mentioned, the Bureau of Sabotage is not a major point in
those, it's covered more in a short story. But they're still fairly
high on the list of Herbert's better works.
My personal favorite of his is a hard-to-find novella: _The Eyes of
Heisenberg_. If you can find a copy, get it.
[0] I had a button with I.L.R.T. in big red letters, "In Lieu of Red
Tape" below, and "Bureau of Sabotage" above, that I got at a convention,
but I can't find it anymore - I've probably been sabotaged. Nancy, do
you make one?
Phil Bornemeier
wrote:
>The thing I don't get is how the heck do they keep the end of the blade
>from shooting off into infinity? Try shining a laser on a wall and
>making it stop half way. Doesn't work.
For a great deal of info/speculation on the nature of light sabers
see: http://www.synicon.com.au/sw/ls/sabres.htm
See the rest of the site for other very detailed Star Wars technical
hypothesis.
Joseph Michael Bay
> In a long-running Star Wars RPG campaign, in our band of mostly
>smugglers, drug dealers, and criminals who occasionally claimed to be
>rebels (and still blew up a lot of Imperial facilities, so who was going
>to argue with us?), I think all but one person had some kind of
>lightsaber-type tool for cutting doors into walls, etc. As long as you
>used 'em carefully, with the proper respect you give to any power tool,
>they're perfectly safe. And anyway, they have cybernetics for most body
>parts if you do fumble.
http://www.brunching.com/features/starwarscompanies.html
Bill Snyder
'Kamikaze' Hughes) wrote:
>6 Jun 2002 13:11:50 -0400, James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> spake:
>> I see this as a serious problem for rocket transport,
>> especially since someone has pioneered the art of running
>> large transports into immobile things. Plus rockets leaving
>> from Terrestrial sites only give the authorities about five
>> minutes warning something very wrong has happened. Combine
>> that with the likely reluctance of people to ride something
>> with self-destruct charges (3) and I can't see governments
>> being willing to license ballistic transports.
>
> Okay, so what if we put all the buildings on treads so they can dodge?
You're a Unix hacker, right?
--
Bill Snyder [This space unintentionally left blank.]
James Nicoll
Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes <kami...@kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu> wrote:
>6 Jun 2002 13:11:50 -0400, James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> spake:
>> I see this as a serious problem for rocket transport,
>> especially since someone has pioneered the art of running
>> large transports into immobile things. Plus rockets leaving
>> from Terrestrial sites only give the authorities about five
>> minutes warning something very wrong has happened. Combine
>> that with the likely reluctance of people to ride something
>> with self-destruct charges (3) and I can't see governments
>> being willing to license ballistic transports.
>
> Okay, so what if we put all the buildings on treads so they can dodge?
>
We can just make them to sway a little more.
Johnny1A
> Keith Morrison <kei...@polarnet.ca> writes:
>
> > The Elder Race who has passed beyond the veil but has thoughtfully
> > left their subway system in place and fully operational.
That one _might_ actually be true, for all we know.
>
> A small low energy widget can open access to hyperspace/wormholes
> that provide effective FTL travel
That one _might_ be true, for all we know.
>
> There is water on Mars.
This one almost certainly _is_ true.
>
> There are non-terrestrial life forms in the solar system
That one _might_ be true, for all we know.
Shermanlee
Johnny1A
<snip relevant comments on transport safety>
> I see this as a serious problem for rocket transport,
> especially since someone has pioneered the art of running
> large transports into immobile things. Plus rockets leaving
> from Terrestrial sites only give the authorities about five
> minutes warning something very wrong has happened. Combine
> that with the likely reluctance of people to ride something
> with self-destruct charges (3) and I can't see governments
> being willing to license ballistic transports.
>
True, but risk assessment is ultimately based on an intangible factor:
How safe do you want to _feel_? From the standpoint of the Middle
Ages, automobiles arguably are too powerful to be safely left in
civilian hands. Let the public mood shift, and so will the risks the
public is willing to endure.
Shermanlee
Johnny1A
> he...@decode.is (Helgi Briem) wrote:
>
> > In all fairness, the Star Wars films make it clear
> > that anyone without the Force *will* cut off his
> > own head. Didn't someone unqualified try to use a
> > lightsabre in one of the films? I seem to recall
> > something like that, or was that in a spin-off book?
> > Guiltily admitting to having read some of the spin-off
> > books. I have an excuse, I'll read anything, even
> > shampoo bottles and soup cans.
> > Regards, Helgi Briem
> > helgi AT decode DOT is
>
> The thing I don't get is how the heck do they keep the end of the blade
> from shooting off into infinity? Try shining a laser on a wall and
> making it stop half way. Doesn't work.
>
Whatever lightsabres are, they aren't lasers. They don't behave like
laser phenomena in any way. BTW, a fan once calculated, based on how
rapidly Qui Gon Jinn's lightsabre melted through the armor doors
aboard the Trade Federation ship, that a typical lightsabre must have
a power emission in the range of a gigawatt of controlled power.
Of course, in this setting, it's always possible that a lot of the
power to melt through the doors came from Qui Gon, not the
lightsabre...
Shermanlee
Nancy Lebovitz
Terry Austin <tau...@hyperbooks.com> wrote:
>Justin Fang wrote:
>>
>> Yes, in _A Deepness in the Sky_, it's what kills civilizations that
>> avoid all other causes of failure. There's a hard ceiling on the
>> maximum technology level available (no FTL, no true AI), so
>> technological progress eventually reaches the point of diminishing
>> returns. Civilizations that last long enough find themselves
>> expending ever-increasing amounts of effort on ever-smaller
>> efficiency gains. The economy becomes so optimized and
>> interdependent that an unforeseen event in any one part causes
>> cascading failures throughout the entire system. The society's
>> attempts to avoid this problem can, at best, only delay it for a
>> while. At worst, they trigger the fall immediately (e.g. "ubiquitous
>> law enforcement", where every computer on the planet is turned into
>> an extension of the government).
>>
>That's based on an inherntly flawed definition of "efficiency" which
>precludes reserve margin from being part of it. Sloppy thinking,
>and poor understanding of real life chaotic systems.
You might like _Slack : Getting Past Burnout, Busywork, and the Myth of
Total Efficiency_ by Tom Demarco--it gets into some detail about
the need for not-obviously-allocated resources, and the ways in which
not-quite-honest organizations try to get away without having them.
It's downright poetic about the need for sane deadlines.
--
Nancy Lebovitz na...@netaxs.com www.nancybuttons.com 100 new slogans
I want to move to theory. Everything works in theory.
Johnny1A
> On Thu, 06 Jun 2002 10:10:35 GMT, he...@decode.is (Helgi Briem) wrote:
>
> } On Wed, 05 Jun 2002 21:28:09 -0500, John Hill
> } <john...@fuse.net> wrote:
> }
> } > Lightsabers, even though anyone even slightly clumsy
> } > would cut their own head off with a flick of the wrist.
> }
> } that anyone without the Force *will* cut off his
> } own head. Didn't someone unqualified try to use a
> } lightsabre in one of the films? I seem to recall
> } something like that, or was that in a spin-off book?
> } Guiltily admitting to having read some of the spin-off
> } books. I have an excuse, I'll read anything, even
> } shampoo bottles and soup cans.
Don't apologize, the Timothy Zahn spinoff novels (the first three,
anyway) are quite readable. I myself got hooked on SF originally, way
back in early grade school, by the novelization of the original (ANH)
Star Wars movie.
>
> Han Solo did OK when he gutted the TanTan (snow horsie) to keep Luke
> warm in ESB.
Han Solo is not clumsy, and he handled the thing very carefully. If
he ever tried to fight with it he'd kill himself in seconds.
Shermanlee
Johnny1A
> John Duncan Yoyo <john-dun...@cox.net> wrote:
> : On Thu, 06 Jun 2002 10:10:35 GMT, he...@decode.is (Helgi Briem) wrote:
> : } In all fairness, the Star Wars films make it clear
> : } that anyone without the Force *will* cut off his
> : } own head. Didn't someone unqualified try to use a
> : } lightsabre in one of the films? I seem to recall
> : } something like that, or was that in a spin-off book?
> : } Guiltily admitting to having read some of the spin-off
> : } books. I have an excuse, I'll read anything, even
> : } shampoo bottles and soup cans.
>
> : warm in ESB.
>
> that Luke managed not to kill himself when first using a saber
> while blindfolded was quite an achievement, though.
>
Based on what we've seen in five movies, it's easy to build a case
that Luke (and presumably Leia) pretty well _must_ be the most
powerful Force-wielder in the known history of the SW universe.
Consider: Luke started his training as an adult, for a short time
with Obi Wan, and then three years later he trains for a few months
with Yoda, and in that time he masters the basic skills of the Jedi
_at a level to match Darth Vader_, who trained for _decades_, and was
previously considered the most powerful Jedi in history.
It's not a mystery why Palpatine was worried about him.
Shermanlee
Johnny1A
> Humans are "special" in some way that destines them to dominate the
> universe.
May be true, may not, for all we can know for sure right now.
>
> Habitable planets with no inconvenient intelligent races on them are
> plentiful and nearby.
Maybe true, maybe not, we don't know (depending on the definition of 'nearby').
Shermanlee
Nancy Lebovitz
>Tape" below, and "Bureau of Sabotage" above, that I got at a convention,
>but I can't find it anymore - I've probably been sabotaged. Nancy, do
>you make one?
I don't have it as a standard button, but I also make custom buttons.
Doug Lampert
> Fans are slans.
Considers people seen at Cons.
Considers that Slans are Homo Superior.
Considers that if WE are Homo Superior it is the rest of humanity
to whom we are superior.
Considers what this implies about the people who designed the jet I
will be on in a few weeks, not to mention the people with control of
thousands of A-bombs.
That is not a good wish....
DougL
Mark Reichert
> Actually, I suspect that both of these things _are_ true. Humanity is
> special in that it exists, and all the other intelligent species
> within our galaxy don't. :)
Which means Asimov stumbled onto the truth when trying to avoid
Campbell's inherant belief in the superiority of humans aka Western
Civilization.
Of course, there are always those aliens in "Blind Alley".
Mark Reichert
> Only they're all closely related to you. But they're still hot for you, so
> what the hell? <g>
Are we are talking about a former "Dean of Science Fiction"?
Mark Reichert
> Only way I could figure to handwave it is that it's not really a laser, it's
> some sort of plasma held in place by some sort of magnetic field (which
> allows the binding of the swords when they fight).
That's exactly what I've thought too.
The real problem is how the heck something that small could put out
enough energy to melt your way through really thick armor doors.
Really efficient use of some type of cold fusion I guess.
Matt Ruff
-- M. Ruff
Mark Reichert
> What makes you think there won't be enough people wanting to
> do the US-Asian Tiger/US-Australian route to make the bigger ships
> reasonable?
They never made bigger versions of the Concorde, but perhaps that had
more to due with the restriction of use over land.
Robert A. Woodward
Nyrath the nearly wise <nyr...@io.com> wrote:
> James Nicoll wrote:
> > I see this as a serious problem for rocket transport,
> > especially since someone has pioneered the art of running
> > large transports into immobile things. Plus rockets leaving
> > from Terrestrial sites only give the authorities about five
> > minutes warning something very wrong has happened. Combine
> > that with the likely reluctance of people to ride something
> > with self-destruct charges (3) and I can't see governments
> > being willing to license ballistic transports.
>
>
> There was a short story that kinda sorta explored this,
> but I'm going blank on the name.
>
> I thought it was "Industrial Accident" by G. Harry Stein,
> but that's not it.
>
> In the story, a passenger spacecraft on the Mars-Earth
> run has an engine failure. Drama ensues when Earth
> authorities calculate the kiloton equivalent of the
> spacecraft's kinetic energy.
>
Was it "Sound Decision" by Randall Garrett & Robert Silverberg? Fits the
parameters.
--
robe...@drizzle.com http://www.drizzle.com/~robertaw/
rawoo...@aol.com
David Silberstein
My vote is for tractor beams, or rather, pressor beams. Or some
combination thereof.
I suppose a magnet powerful enough to deflect the incoming transport
would also be powerful enough to degauss magnetic media for miles
around, not to mention playing havoc with EM communications.
Niall McAuley
> Based on what we've seen in five movies, it's easy to build a case
> that Luke (and presumably Leia) pretty well _must_ be the most
> powerful Force-wielder in the known history of the SW universe.
> Consider: Luke started his training as an adult, for a short time
> with Obi Wan, and then three years later he trains for a few months
> with Yoda, and in that time he masters the basic skills of the Jedi
> _at a level to match Darth Vader_,
Well, no, when Luke goes to face Vader in _TESB_ Vader kicks his
ass, chops his hand off and only holds off killing him to offer
Luke a crack at the Emperor.
When Luke does beat Vader in a fight in _RotJ_, he's in his
physical prime, Vader is an ancient half-robot with emphysema,
the emperor is yards away and Luke is *really pissed off*,
which should mean he is flooded with the dark side of the Force.
Vader, meanwhile, is conflicted: he really doesn't want to kill
his boy, he really wants to kill the emperor. No wonder, when
the emperor is egging the boy on to kill him and take his place.
> It's not a mystery why Palpatine was worried about him.
He never worried about him for a second. His mistake was that
he'd stopped worrying about Vader.
--
Niall [real address ends in se, not es.invalid]
Helgi Briem
>> It is virtually impossible to fight with that thing
>> without accidentally turning it off every few seconds; and nearly
>> as impossible to handle it without accidentally turning it on.
>Unless the button was a sensor that was activated by The Force.
Nah. Han Solo used to cut open the thingie.
Bryan Derksen
I seem to recall a tongue-in-cheek SF novel in which the skyscrapers
in Los Angeles all had rockets built into them as an anti-earthquake
safety measure. In the event of an earthquake, you see, the buildings
would all lift off and fly out to safely splash down in the Pacific
Ocean (beyond the belt of oil platforms stretching just beyond the
shore). They'd get towed back to land and set back up in their
foundations once the shaking had subsided.
The book was about a movie studio ("Titanic Pictures," I think?)
trying to produce an epic science fiction movie. Due to regulations
limiting on-screen violence, however, the characters in the movie
could only use rubber swords as weapons. _Obviously_ rubber swords,
that wobbled around unconvincingly whenever they were weilded. All
other details slip my mind.
GSV Three Minds in a Can
James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> said
<snip>
>> Okay, so what if we put all the buildings on treads so they can dodge?
>>
> I like it. But it may not be necessary. Buildings sway, after all.
>We can just make them to sway a little more.
ObSF: What =was= that story where the Mars 'beanstalk' was arranged to
oscillate just right to miss Phobos and Diemos as they orbited past?
--
GSV Three Minds in a Can
Niall McAuley
> ObSF: What =was= that story where the Mars 'beanstalk' was arranged to
> oscillate just right to miss Phobos and Diemos as they orbited past?
_The Fountains of Paradise_ by Arthur Clarke and also
_Things to do on Mars When You're Dead Annoying_, by
Kim Stanley Robinson.
Susan Stepney
news:b2c234cd.02060...@posting.google.com:
>
> There was also at least one short story about Jorj X. McKie and
> the Bureau of Sabotage (I can't remember the name, but I think it
> was in _The Book of Frank Herbert_), which focused a bit more on
> the Bureau and its internal workings.
If it got too efficient at what it did, who sabotaged *it*?
--
_____________________________________________________________________
Susan Stepney tel +44 1223 254890 step...@logica.com
Logica UK Ltd, Betjeman House, 104 Hills Road, Cambridge, CB2 1LQ, UK
http://public.logica.com/~stepneys/ http://www.logica.com/
Urban Fredriksson
Susan Stepney <step...@logica.com> wrote:
>If it got too efficient at what it did, who sabotaged *it*?
If you're in the Bureau of Sabotage, then you can of
course sabotage other in it.
--
Urban Fredriksson http://www.canit.se/%7Egriffon/
A boundary between the known and the unknown always exists.
Urban Fredriksson
Bryan Derksen <bder...@REM0VEgpu.srv.ualberta.ca> wrote:
>I seem to recall a tongue-in-cheek SF novel in which the skyscrapers
>in Los Angeles all had rockets built into them as an anti-earthquake
>safety measure.
I remember this, but I'm not sure it was in the same book
I'll mention below.
>The book was about a movie studio ("Titanic Pictures," I think?)
>trying to produce an epic science fiction movie.
If it instead was a TV series, this sounds very much like
Ben Bova's _The Starcrossed_. Funny satire.
Nyrath the nearly wise
> Whipping Star is useful for background for the other book, but I'm not
> as fond of it. As Mary said, the idea of Calebans (fragvrag fgnef) was
> interesting, but the execution wasn't so hot.
Careful, that could be considered a spoiler. ;)
Nyrath the nearly wise
> If it got too efficient at what it did, who sabotaged *it*?
The Bureau of Sabotage also sabotaged itself.
As a matter of fact, one way of getting a promotion
is by perpetrating a sucessful sabotage on one's
superior.