Pearls Before Swine: My Coffee Name

[Lynn McGuire]

Pearls Before Swine: My Coffee Name
https://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2021/08/22

I don't go to Starbucks, I'm no boob.

Lynn

[Quinn C]

* Lynn McGuire:

> Pearls Before Swine: My Coffee Name
> https://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2021/08/22
>
> I don't go to Starbucks, I'm no boob.

You are BasilBruce??

--
Never trust ale from a god-fearing people.
-- Quark

[Dimensional Traveler]

To some just saying that makes you a boob.


--
Troll, troll, troll your post gently down the thread
Angrily, angrily, angrily, the net's a nut's scream.

[J. Clarke]

On Mon, 23 Aug 2021 17:20:24 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
<dtr...@sonic.net> wrote:

>On 8/23/2021 11:34 AM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>> Pearls Before Swine: My Coffee Name
>>    https://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2021/08/22
>>
>> I don't go to Starbucks, I'm no boob.
>>
>To some just saying that makes you a boob.

None whose opinion, at least in the area of coffee, is worth
considering. Starbucks has the same kind of quality control as
McDonalds--what you get will be the same in every Starbucks in the
world. To achieve that level of consistency they have to blend and
roast every last vestige of character out of their coffee. There's a
reason they push milk drinks.

[Lynn McGuire]

I am allergic to milk. One ounce will make me upchuck.

Lynn

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <m7f8igtvj2si15ion...@4ax.com>,

I remember when a young man was staying with us (there was trouble at
home and we had an extra bedroom), and one day I heard him talking
on the phone and mentioning Starbucks' in tones of scorn.

When he'd hung up, I asked (out of mere curiosity, I don't drink
coffee at all) whether Starbuck's coffee was any good.

"STARBUCKS!" he shouted. "They pay lousy wages and no benefits."

"But is their coffee any good?"

"STARBUCKS!" he fumed. "They move into an area, start selling
their coffee extra-cheap, put the other coffee-houses out of
business, and then jack up the prices again."

"Yes, but is their COFFEE any good?"

He shrugged, completely calm. "Oh, it's lousy."

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <sg1gl6$g9m$1...@dont-email.me>,

Lactose intolerance?

Then you order your coffee black (assuming you drink coffee at
all).

[J. Clarke]

Upchucking is preferable to Starbucks coffee without adulterants.
However "milk drink" in Starbucks doesn't necessarily involve anything
that came out of a mammal.

[J. Clarke]

Among coffee aficionados they are known as "charbucks". They do
provide a brown substance that contains caffeine and is not a cola.
Quite frankly, McDonalds has better coffee. They didn't used to but
they've been working on it.

[Alan Baker]

Oh, do shut up.

[Alan Baker]

Oh, do shut up.

[pete...@gmail.com]

Odd. I'd heard they were a good employer, with
benefits, medical coverage, and tuition reimbursement.

Pt

[pete...@gmail.com]

I tend to go for Dunkins, but I agree: McD's coffee is far better than
you'd expect.

Pt

[J. Clarke]

According to glassdoor they pay middle of the road for a barista, but
it's usually part time. Medical is required by law, so they get no
kudos there--the plan cost is split 50/50 so it can be a big bite out
of a low wage and is only available to people working 20 hours or more
a week, which is 11,000 out of 60,000 employees. They do have tuition
reimbursement for ASU online. Their benefits brochure can be found at
https://cache.hacontent.com/ybr/R516/06607_ybr_ybrfndt/downloads/MG.pdf


>
>Pt

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <7ok8igts1r4918bk6...@4ax.com>,

Well, Lynn is old enough to know what suits his own body and what
doesn't. If the latter include both milk and Starbuck's, he can
do him.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <d31bc332-33f6-4029...@googlegroups.com>,

Well, the conversation I described was at least fifteen years
ago. Perhaps they've improved?

[Michael Trew]

That's funny. People love to transpose the 'a' and 'e' in my name.

I can't say that I was ever impressed with Starbucks. Their plain
coffee is so strong that it tastes burnt. I tried a "milkshake"
"coffee" once. It wasn't bad, but for over $5, not something that I'll
repeat any time soon.

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

In article <sg35ma$b36$4...@dont-email.me>,

McDonalds now has very good coffee. It's not rocket science, and when
they put their minds to it, and implemented the procedures the franchaises
need to follow -- it worked. Dunkin as well. Both much better than SB,
at least for coffee-coffee. I'm sure the half-caf-skinny-whip-almond-
mocha-cinamon-cream-steam-nitro at SB is.. still unique.
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

[Dimensional Traveler]

Or the standards have changed.

[Lynn McGuire]

McDonalds has always had good coffee for me. I was a field engineer for
a number of years and McDonalds was always a good place to stop, drain,
and refill.

Lynn

[John W Kennedy]

For my wife and me, it’s a lose-lose. We can go with her name, Eleanor,
and expect it to be misspelled, or we can go with my name and have four
people answer, “That’s me!”.

[Quinn C]

* Dorothy J Heydt:

> In article <m7f8igtvj2si15ion...@4ax.com>,
> J. Clarke <jclarke...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>On Mon, 23 Aug 2021 17:20:24 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
>><dtr...@sonic.net> wrote:
>>
>>>On 8/23/2021 11:34 AM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>>> Pearls Before Swine: My Coffee Name
>>>>    https://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2021/08/22
>>>>
>>>> I don't go to Starbucks, I'm no boob.
>>>>
>>>To some just saying that makes you a boob.
>>
>>None whose opinion, at least in the area of coffee, is worth
>>considering. Starbucks has the same kind of quality control as
>>McDonalds--what you get will be the same in every Starbucks in the
>>world. To achieve that level of consistency they have to blend and
>>roast every last vestige of character out of their coffee. There's a
>>reason they push milk drinks.
>
> I remember when a young man was staying with us (there was trouble at
> home and we had an extra bedroom), and one day I heard him talking
> on the phone and mentioning Starbucks' in tones of scorn.
>
> When he'd hung up, I asked (out of mere curiosity, I don't drink
> coffee at all) whether Starbuck's coffee was any good.
>
> "STARBUCKS!" he shouted. "They pay lousy wages and no benefits."

From what I hear, their benefits are outstanding among fast-food
outlets. People continue working there for the health insurance.

--
Veronica: You named your puppy "The Missus"?
Cliff: Says the owner of a dog named "Pony".
-- Veronica Mars, S04E05

[William Hyde]

In my experience, the first sentence in that paragraph is correct (there's no McDonalds
near here).

While at Duke, I for a while drank "fair trade" coffee from a university outlet. It was poor, tasteless stuff. So I went to the hospital cafeteria instead, which served Starbucks. The burnt taste in that first
drink was overwhelming. On consideration, I decided that they were equally bad but that the
hospital won because the clientele was vastly to be preferred. After a while I stopped noticing
the char, though I never came to like their coffee much.

Pre-pandemic I generally bought a starbucks to keep me alert during evening bridge
tournaments (the real coffee shop lost its lease and is now some chain thing).

These days I drink Tim Horton's, as it's the only coffee shop I can walk to. Alas.

William Hyde

[pete...@gmail.com]

It appears my information was not that accurate.

Pt

[Kevrob]

I rarely have coffee, but I like Timbits.

If you don't want to walk to the donut shop/cafe:

https://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2021/08/21

There's a Dunkin' 0.3 mi from my apt. [I think if it were any further,
that would be illegal here in CT, not to mention the other NE states.]
I'll walk there to buy anything from the attached convenience store
or a DD donut or bagel. I never buy any coffee, though. When I still
owned a car, I rarely bought gas there. It's the closest station but by
some perversity of the universe, one of the most expensive, locally.
That's probably because it is the closest to the on/off ramp of the
expressway that runs from Bridgeport to Waterbury. [Rte 8]

--
Kevin R

[J. Clarke]

On Tue, 24 Aug 2021 18:57:13 -0700 (PDT), Kevrob <kev...@my-deja.com>
wrote:

There was a Tim Hortons within a reasonable drive of here, but it
closed. I miss it.

[peterw...@hotmail.com]

Their milkshake brings all the boys to the yard...

Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

In article <c0e3e681-d663-4ba7...@googlegroups.com>,

Somewhat appropos, and on topic:

https://tinyurl.com/wpyvbf

[Michael Trew]

I like the way you've named it, haha. The last time I went in, I
finally deciphered something off of their menu that was basically
frozen, blended, ground up iced coffee with so much creamer, flavoring,
etc. that it didn't even resemble coffee anymore. It cost near $6 for a
large, or whatever Italian name they call that size. It was good, I
suppose, but a coffee it was not. I'd call it a milkshake with coffee
flavor.

I have a $5 SB gift card that someone once gave me floating around here.
If I ever find it, I suppose I'll take it in and buy another coffee
milkshake some day. If I only have to pony up 80 cents, I reckon it's
worth it. :)

[Default User]

On Monday, August 23, 2021 at 1:34:31 PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> Pearls Before Swine: My Coffee Name
> https://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2021/08/22
>
> I don't go to Starbucks, I'm no boob.

I don't drink coffee, so it's not a concern for me. The only time I went in one was when I was on travel for Megacorp to Seattle, and the locals wanted to go there after lunch. I didn't order anything.

As far as names, when ordering a carryout pizza or the like I always give them "Johnson". They never ask how to spell it as they would with my last name, and it's the name of a friend of mine who, when we would order at one of those places with tables but no table service back in college, always seemed to get his first regardless of the ordering sequence.

Brian

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <87722f54-8a64-4434...@googlegroups.com>,

Default User <defaul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>I don't drink coffee, so it's not a concern for me. The only time I went
>in one was when I was on travel for Megacorp to Seattle, and the locals
>wanted to go there after lunch. I didn't order anything.
>
>As far as names, when ordering a carryout pizza or the like I always
>give them "Johnson". They never ask how to spell it as they would with

>my last name.....

Gosh. My maiden name was Jones, one of the commonest names in
the US. NObody could spell or pronounce it. That's one of the
reasons I switched to Hal's name when we married (the other
reason was that it was still the default). Only to find out that
nobody could spell or pronounce "Heydt" either. That's why my
daughter switched to her husband's name when she married--only to
find out that nobody could spell or pronounce "Creelman."

[pete...@gmail.com]

Jones? How did they get it wrong? The only alternative I can think of is "Jonz".

Try 'Trei', or as I usually say it if someone needs to enter it into
something: "Trei spelt T R E I"

Most people either miss spell, or mispronounce it. There's only
a couple hundred people in the US with that name.

pt

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <965fe060-acc4-4f59...@googlegroups.com>,

pete...@gmail.com <pete...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Wednesday, August 25, 2021 at 9:10:04 AM UTC-4, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>> In article <87722f54-8a64-4434...@googlegroups.com>,
>> Default User <defaul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >I don't drink coffee, so it's not a concern for me. The only time I went
>> >in one was when I was on travel for Megacorp to Seattle, and the locals
>> >wanted to go there after lunch. I didn't order anything.
>> >
>> >As far as names, when ordering a carryout pizza or the like I always
>> >give them "Johnson". They never ask how to spell it as they would with
>> >my last name.....
>>
>> Gosh. My maiden name was Jones, one of the commonest names in
>> the US. NObody could spell or pronounce it. That's one of the
>> reasons I switched to Hal's name when we married (the other
>> reason was that it was still the default). Only to find out that
>> nobody could spell or pronounce "Heydt" either. That's why my
>> daughter switched to her husband's name when she married--only to
>> find out that nobody could spell or pronounce "Creelman."
>
>Jones? How did they get it wrong? The only alternative I can think of is "Jonz".

Johns, usually, like Johnson but truncated. And they have not
the foggiest idea how to spell it. I sometimes say "Like 'Davy
Jones's locker,'" but in spite of the Pirates-of-the-Caribbean'
sequel by that name, they've never heard of it.

And Heinlein told the story of asking the concierge at a hotel in
Colombia for the name of the maid who'd cleaned his room, so he
could leave her a tip.

Sen~orita Hon-es."

"How do you spell that?"

"J-O-N-E-S."

Of course, he would have pronounced it, "hota-o-ene-e-ese."

>
>Try 'Trei', or as I usually say it if someone needs to enter it into
>something: "Trei spelt T R E I"

I sometimes tell people "Heydt, rhymes with 'bright.'"

>
>Most people either miss spell, or mispronounce it. There's only
>a couple hundred people in the US with that name.

OK, how do you pronounce it? What does it rhyme with? I've
never ventured to ask.

[Kevrob]

On Wednesday, August 25, 2021 at 9:44:17 AM UTC-4, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, August 25, 2021 at 9:10:04 AM UTC-4, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> > In article <87722f54-8a64-4434...@googlegroups.com>,
> > Default User <defaul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >I don't drink coffee, so it's not a concern for me. The only time I went
> > >in one was when I was on travel for Megacorp to Seattle, and the locals
> > >wanted to go there after lunch. I didn't order anything.
> > >
> > >As far as names, when ordering a carryout pizza or the like I always
> > >give them "Johnson". They never ask how to spell it as they would with
> > >my last name.....
> >
> > Gosh. My maiden name was Jones, one of the commonest names in
> > the US. NObody could spell or pronounce it. That's one of the
> > reasons I switched to Hal's name when we married (the other
> > reason was that it was still the default). Only to find out that
> > nobody could spell or pronounce "Heydt" either. That's why my
> > daughter switched to her husband's name when she married--only to
> > find out that nobody could spell or pronounce "Creelman."
> Jones? How did they get it wrong? The only alternative I can think of is "Jonz".
>

There's J'Onnz, if one is of Martian extraction. :)

> Try 'Trei', or as I usually say it if someone needs to enter it into
> something: "Trei spelt T R E I"
>

Is that pronounced "tray?" Every third frat rat in the USA seems to be
nicknamed "Trey": He's Henry Henhouse III, but we all call him "Trey."

> Most people either miss spell, or mispronounce it. There's only
> a couple hundred people in the US with that name.
>
>

--
Kevin R
a.a #2310

[Scott Lurndal]

djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) writes:
>In article <965fe060-acc4-4f59...@googlegroups.com>,
>pete...@gmail.com <pete...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>On Wednesday, August 25, 2021 at 9:10:04 AM UTC-4, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>> In article <87722f54-8a64-4434...@googlegroups.com>,

>>Try 'Trei', or as I usually say it if someone needs to enter it into
>>something: "Trei spelt T R E I"
>
>I sometimes tell people "Heydt, rhymes with 'bright.'"
>>
>>Most people either miss spell, or mispronounce it. There's only
>>a couple hundred people in the US with that name.
>
>OK, how do you pronounce it? What does it rhyme with? I've
>never ventured to ask.

Hmm. Were it germanic, I'd expect it to rhyme with 'try';
just on first glance, 'tray' would likely be a first attempt
by most.

[Paul S Person]

My last name tends to be pronounced (and presumably spelled) with an
extra "a" or "i" after the "e" by most people, except in the Army,
where about 50% of the time, the guy calling roll got it right the
first time.

Still, our Arabic class, when it got to the next school, nearly broke
the Sergeant calling roll up: first he reached "Cocke" (which I just
looked up and appears to be Welsh for "red"; I always thought it was
French for "rooster") and then immediately after that was "Dickmann"
(here my guess was better: German, meaning "fat man" -- OBSF, compare
"Horselover Fats").

When I was working over the phone, I would spell the name and then say
"spelled and pronounced just like the common noun". That may actually
have worked, from time to time.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

[pete...@gmail.com]

It is pronounced 'tray'. It's of Estonian origin, with a probably
untrue story attached to its origin.

I get 'try' and 'tree-eye' a lot, and it's frequently misspelled as
as 'tray' or Trie. When I had a job at Nokia, they set up all my
computer accounts as 'TRIE', and refused to fix it. I take this as
an early indicator of that company's inability to adapt.

Pt

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <6a0e5987-4fb9-4d26...@googlegroups.com>,

Kevrob <kev...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>On Wednesday, August 25, 2021 at 9:44:17 AM UTC-4, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Wednesday, August 25, 2021 at 9:10:04 AM UTC-4, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>> > In article <87722f54-8a64-4434...@googlegroups.com>,
>> > Default User <defaul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> > >
>> > >I don't drink coffee, so it's not a concern for me. The only time I went
>> > >in one was when I was on travel for Megacorp to Seattle, and the locals
>> > >wanted to go there after lunch. I didn't order anything.
>> > >
>> > >As far as names, when ordering a carryout pizza or the like I always
>> > >give them "Johnson". They never ask how to spell it as they would with
>> > >my last name.....
>> >
>> > Gosh. My maiden name was Jones, one of the commonest names in
>> > the US. NObody could spell or pronounce it. That's one of the
>> > reasons I switched to Hal's name when we married (the other
>> > reason was that it was still the default). Only to find out that
>> > nobody could spell or pronounce "Heydt" either. That's why my
>> > daughter switched to her husband's name when she married--only to
>> > find out that nobody could spell or pronounce "Creelman."
>> Jones? How did they get it wrong? The only alternative I can think of
>is "Jonz".
>>
>
>There's J'Onnz, if one is of Martian extraction. :)

Which I'm not. Terran to my bone marrow. (One-quarter each,
Welsh, Lowland Scots, English, German.)

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <75e2a045-9d39-4342...@googlegroups.com>,

pete...@gmail.com <pete...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Wednesday, August 25, 2021 at 12:06:24 PM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) writes:
>> >In article <965fe060-acc4-4f59...@googlegroups.com>,
>> >pete...@gmail.com <pete...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>On Wednesday, August 25, 2021 at 9:10:04 AM UTC-4, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>> >>> In article <87722f54-8a64-4434...@googlegroups.com>,
>> >>Try 'Trei', or as I usually say it if someone needs to enter it into
>> >>something: "Trei spelt T R E I"
>> >
>> >I sometimes tell people "Heydt, rhymes with 'bright.'"
>> >>
>> >>Most people either miss spell, or mispronounce it. There's only
>> >>a couple hundred people in the US with that name.
>> >
>> >OK, how do you pronounce it? What does it rhyme with? I've
>> >never ventured to ask.
>> Hmm. Were it germanic, I'd expect it to rhyme with 'try';
>> just on first glance, 'tray' would likely be a first attempt
>> by most.
>
>It is pronounced 'tray'. It's of Estonian origin, with a probably
>untrue story attached to its origin.

Cool!

Would you like to share the probably untrue story of its origin?

[William Hyde]

On Wednesday, August 25, 2021 at 9:10:04 AM UTC-4, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:

> In article <87722f54-8a64-4434...@googlegroups.com>,
> Default User <defaul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >I don't drink coffee, so it's not a concern for me. The only time I went
> >in one was when I was on travel for Megacorp to Seattle, and the locals
> >wanted to go there after lunch. I didn't order anything.
> >
> >As far as names, when ordering a carryout pizza or the like I always
> >give them "Johnson". They never ask how to spell it as they would with
> >my last name.....
>
> Gosh. My maiden name was Jones, one of the commonest names in
> the US. NObody could spell or pronounce it. That's one of the
> reasons I switched to Hal's name when we married (the other
> reason was that it was still the default). Only to find out that
> nobody could spell or pronounce "Heydt" either.

Well, with a little bit of letter switching and dropping a superfluous "t" you could have a different name

... which people also can't pronounce.

William Hyde

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <76973152-790c-48b8...@googlegroups.com>,

Let me guess. Rhymes with "tried"?

[Kevrob]

On Wednesday, August 25, 2021 at 9:06:19 PM UTC-4, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <76973152-790c-48b8...@googlegroups.com>,
> William Hyde <wthyd...@gmail.com> wrote:

[snip]

> >... which people also can't pronounce.
> >
> >William Hyde
> >
> Let me guess. Rhymes with "tried"?
> --

Or with "Dr Jekyll & Mr Heidi?"

[ Mygawd! Jekyll! What did you do to those goats?!!!! ]

--
Kevin R

[Robert Carnegie]

Is it in plain sight?

And why would the lady do such a thing, except to
evade the authorities after committing some
unspecified crime... or, to incriminate someone
of the same name. Hmm.

But, there's having to change Wikipedia, and all that.

I was slightly puzzled that some Wikipedia articles
about "Robert Carnegie" are not for me, of course, but
for members of a longstanding Scottish landowner
family but only a few generations... after a mildly
embarrassing interval, it occurred to me that only
a few generations of the family had named the
(surviving) heir, Robert, and the others had different
first names.

[pete...@gmail.com]

Why not. Understand that I'm telling the story as it
was told to me when I was about 10. I haven't fact-checked
it in any way. There are probably multiple historic errors.

Estonia has spent most of its history since the 13th century (when the
Teutonic Knights invaded; Estonia was one of the last places in Europe
to be Christianized) being passed among the more powerful nations
of the area, particularly Sweden and Russia. At the time we're talking
about, Catherine the Great of Russia held sway.

Back then, the Estonian serfs had a naming system to similar
to Iceland's, a child taking the parent's first name, adding 'son' or
'daughter' (or the Estonian equivalents) and using that as their
last name.

This made record keeping difficult, so Katherine decreed that
all serfs would be given the persisting patronymics used in most
of Europe today, and sent out hundreds of her German courtiers
(she had a thing for Germans) to give the families names.

The heads of families lined up in each town to be given names.
The German courtiers didn't speak Estonian (no surprise), but gave
the heads of households names - sometimes very literal and descriptive,
'Big Nose', 'Blue eyes', etc, but in German, which the serfs didn't speak.

Allegedly, my ancestor was utterly ordinary, with no interesting
distinguishing traits. However, in that town, he was the third guy in line.
So, he got 'Drei' as a name.

In Estonian, an initial 'D' and an initial 'T' are indistinguishable, so it
got written down as 'Trei'.

Add a little linguistic drift, and you get 'Trei', pronounced (at least in
English) as 'tray'. My Estonian-born grandmother pronounced it
a bit closer to 'Drei', further in the back of her mouth.

Again, almost certainly apocryphal.

pt

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <41384432-cf63-4ee9...@googlegroups.com>,

But entirely believable.

Welshmen used to use patronymics too. You were not only known as
the son of your father, but as the son of your father, son of his
father, son of his father, et cetera for at least a dozen
generations. Meeting another Welshman for the first time, you'd
both go back through the generations (sometimes adding
place-names, e.g. "Madoc ap Cynan of Caerleon") till you got far
enough back that you could find the most tenuous of kinships
between the two of you. And then you were kin, so that was all
right.

England conquered Wales in the early Middle Ages (I'd have to
look up when exactly), and over a couple of centuries the English
got more and more annoyed with having to attempt to keep track of
Welsh genealogies. So they demanded that the Welsh take last
names that would be handed down unchanged from generation to
generation.

A lot of Welsh names simply took the phrase "ap [name]" and
dropped the initial "a". So "ap Richard" became "Pritchard, "ap
Huw" became "Pugh," and so on.

A lot of other Welsh names simply took the genitive case of the
patronymic, yielding "Richards" and "Hughes" and so on. And
"Jones," meaning "son of John."

There were undoubtedly a lot of Welshmen whose Christian name was
"John;" it was a popular name and still is. But there were a
good many Welshmen who decided to undercut the purpose of the
English by choosing "Jones" never mind what their patronymic had
been. There were times and places where to say "He's a Jones"
meant "He's a rebel."

So there are a lot of Joneses in Wales to this day, and if half
the people in your village are named Jones, you add a word to
distinguish them from each other. So Jones the butcher becomes
"Jones the meat," Jones who runs the local cinema becomes "Jones
the flicks," Jones the greengrocer becomes "Jones the vedge."
(or similar.)

So when Princess Margaret married Anthony Armstrong-Jones, in
good time the Queen named him Earl of Snowdon. And the word went
around, "You know Jones the camera, who became Jones the palace?
Now he's Jones the mountain."

And there's the story, probably not based in fact, about the
English census taker who was sent to a little Welsh village to do
a head-count, asking at each house for the name of the head of
household. And he went up and down the little streets, knocking
at each door, and at each house the answer to his question was
"John Jones."

Up and down he went, "John Jones," "John Jones," till finally he
gave up: "Every man in this village is named John Jones!"

But he was wrong, because at the end of the last street there lived
a man named William Williams.

[William Hyde]

Appropriately these days, yes. But then, a serious Wilfred Hyde-Whyte fan like yourself had no doubt of that.

William Hyde

[William Hyde]

On Wednesday, August 25, 2021 at 9:57:19 PM UTC-4, Kevrob wrote:
> On Wednesday, August 25, 2021 at 9:06:19 PM UTC-4, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> > In article <76973152-790c-48b8...@googlegroups.com>,
> > William Hyde <wthyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> [snip]
> > >... which people also can't pronounce.
> > >
> > >William Hyde
> > >
> > Let me guess. Rhymes with "tried"?
> > --
> Or with "Dr Jekyll & Mr Heidi?"

A girl-of-the-alps pronunciation is the most popular. I've had a certain amount of fun with
people who think that.

William Hyde

[William Hyde]

One of Hornblower's lieutenants is a John Jones. Only after Hornblower has written
the fair copy of a report on an action in which Jones distinguished himself does
Jones inform him that his navy name is John Jones the ninth.

When Cromwell came to rule England some Welsh people regarded this as the
fulfillment of an ancient prophesy in which a Welshman would rule England (one wonders
why Henry VII didn't fulfill it) because Cromwell's direct male ancestry included a
Welshman who took the last name of his brother in law, Henry VIII's advisor, Thomas
Cromwell.

William Hyde

[Lawrence Watt-Evans]

Except it doesn't quite. The Welsh equivalent of John is Evan, and
"Johnson" translates to "Evans." The name "Johns" did (and does)
exist, but it's not where "Jones" came from. "Jones" was something
the English made up and applied to anyone who refused to provide a
family name. They may have SAID it meant "son of John," but it never
did in Welsh. (For one thing, unlike "ap," the S ending doesn't
really mean "son of," it means "house of," so it applied to daughters,
wives, servants, etc.)

>There were undoubtedly a lot of Welshmen whose Christian name was
>"John;" it was a popular name and still is. But there were a
>good many Welshmen who decided to undercut the purpose of the
>English by choosing "Jones" never mind what their patronymic had
>been. There were times and places where to say "He's a Jones"
>meant "He's a rebel."

Because he'd refused to accept a name imposed by the English.

At one point almost 40% of the population of Wales was named Jones.

>So there are a lot of Joneses in Wales to this day, and if half
>the people in your village are named Jones, you add a word to
>distinguish them from each other. So Jones the butcher becomes
>"Jones the meat," Jones who runs the local cinema becomes "Jones
>the flicks," Jones the greengrocer becomes "Jones the vedge."
>(or similar.)
>
>So when Princess Margaret married Anthony Armstrong-Jones, in
>good time the Queen named him Earl of Snowdon. And the word went
>around, "You know Jones the camera, who became Jones the palace?
>Now he's Jones the mountain."
>
>And there's the story, probably not based in fact, about the
>English census taker who was sent to a little Welsh village to do
>a head-count, asking at each house for the name of the head of
>household. And he went up and down the little streets, knocking
>at each door, and at each house the answer to his question was
>"John Jones."
>
>Up and down he went, "John Jones," "John Jones," till finally he
>gave up: "Every man in this village is named John Jones!"
>
>But he was wrong, because at the end of the last street there lived
>a man named William Williams.

--

This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

[peterw...@hotmail.com]

In a somewhat similar vein, members of the Nation of Islam would take on new names when they joined,
and would sometimes refer to their birth names as "slave names." Some have noted it as ironic that they would
choose new names derived from Muslim culture, considering how slaves were treated in Muslim countries.

Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist

[Kevrob]

On Sunday, August 29, 2021 at 5:18:25 PM UTC-4, peterw...@hotmail.com wrote:

[snip]

> In a somewhat similar vein, members of the Nation of Islam would take on new names when they joined,
> and would sometimes refer to their birth names as "slave names." Some have noted it as ironic that they would
> choose new names derived from Muslim culture, considering how slaves were treated in Muslim countries.
>

Arab slavers were active on Africa's East Coast, and would sell into the
markets of Asia, predominantly. If you are aware of the 60s fad of using
Swahili words or names, I was astonished when I learned that tongue was
the trade language of the Arab slavers. Not too many Bantus were sold
into the North American market before the US banned the importation
of slaves from abroad. (1808)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swahili_language

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Act_Prohibiting_Importation_of_Slaves

--
Kevin R

[William Hyde]

On Tuesday, August 31, 2021 at 3:54:15 PM UTC-4, Kevrob wrote:
> On Sunday, August 29, 2021 at 5:18:25 PM UTC-4, peterw...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> [snip]
> > In a somewhat similar vein, members of the Nation of Islam would take on new names when they joined,
> > and would sometimes refer to their birth names as "slave names." Some have noted it as ironic that they would
> > choose new names derived from Muslim culture, considering how slaves were treated in Muslim countries.
> >
> Arab slavers were active on Africa's East Coast, and would sell into the
> markets of Asia, predominantly. If you are aware of the 60s fad of using
> Swahili words or names, I was astonished when I learned that tongue was
> the trade language of the Arab slavers. Not too many Bantus were sold
> into the North American market before the US banned the importation
> of slaves from abroad. (1808)

The Zanj rebellion in Iraq, sometime in the late 800s, largely featured Bantu speaking
slaves at first. Like Spartacus' rebellion, poor and even some not so poor free people
eventually joined. Took over a decade to suppress, IIRC.

William Hyde