Cinq: In Honour of Alasdair TR Laurie
James Nicoll
Laurie is of course the fellow who successfully predicted the
utter destruction of the American East Coast on Dec 25 2007, by which
I mean he was successful in issuing a series of words that in their
aggregate formed a prediction. The actual event predicted did not
occur but who worries about little details like that?
Don't get me wrong: I enjoyed reading Simon R. Green's SHADOWS
FALL and I will grant that in that specific case, it made sense for
there to be a prophecy that came true (Having Father Time as a character
can do that) but is anyone else sick of reams of fantasy novels where
the prophecies always seem to be valid [1]? Can't there be one fantastic
William Miller, sincere but utterly deluded?
Or to put it another way, who are the fantastic William Millers,
sincere but utterly deluded? I'm sure we've kicked this head around the
court a few times.
1: Note that I'm not counting weasel-worded prophecies like "A Great
Kingdom Shall Fall," which can describe a wide variety of outcomes.
--
http://www.livejournal.com/users/james_nicoll
http://www.cafepress.com/jdnicoll (For all your "The problem with
defending the English language [...]" T-shirt, cup and tote-bag needs)
Konrad Gaertner
>
> Or to put it another way, who are the fantastic William Millers,
> sincere but utterly deluded? I'm sure we've kicked this head around the
> court a few times.
GRRM's Song of Ice and Fire had one prophecy that seems to have been
prevented.
--
Konrad Gaertner - - - - - - - - - - - - - email: kgae...@tx.rr.com
http://kgbooklog.livejournal.com/
"If I let myself get hung up on only doing things that had any actual
chance of success, I'd never do *anything*!" Elan, Order of the Stick
philos...@yahoo.com
Nicoll) wrote:
>
> Laurie is of course the fellow who successfully predicted the
>utter destruction of the American East Coast on Dec 25 2007, by which
>I mean he was successful in issuing a series of words that in their
>aggregate formed a prediction. The actual event predicted did not
>occur but who worries about little details like that?
>
> Don't get me wrong: I enjoyed reading Simon R. Green's SHADOWS
>FALL and I will grant that in that specific case, it made sense for
>there to be a prophecy that came true (Having Father Time as a character
>can do that) but is anyone else sick of reams of fantasy novels where
>the prophecies always seem to be valid [1]? Can't there be one fantastic
>William Miller, sincere but utterly deluded?
>
> Or to put it another way, who are the fantastic William Millers,
>sincere but utterly deluded? I'm sure we've kicked this head around the
>court a few times.
>
>
>1: Note that I'm not counting weasel-worded prophecies like "A Great
>Kingdom Shall Fall," which can describe a wide variety of outcomes.
Yolen's White Jenna books has several prophecies that must, as one
character puts it, be read "on the slant". So whether the prophecy
comes true or not depends on what interpretation you put on it.
Very seldom are prophecies as specific as "Myrtle Jones, who lives at
123 Ash Street, Memphis, Tennessee, shall be the great leader who will
guide her people to freedom, or at least to Atlanta, Georgia, in June
of 2008."
Rebecca
Will in New Haven
> James Nicoll wrote:
>
> > Or to put it another way, who are the fantastic William Millers,
> > sincere but utterly deluded? I'm sure we've kicked this head around the
> > court a few times.
>
> GRRM's Song of Ice and Fire had one prophecy that seems to have been
> prevented.
That there would ever be another book?
Will in New Haven
--
"In one of the great tragedies of publishing, it was not a limited
enough edition and so I have read it." - James Nicoll
>
> --
> Konrad Gaertner - - - - - - - - - - - - - email: kgaert...@tx.rr.comhttp://kgbooklog.livejournal.com/
Robert Sneddon
philos...@yahoo.com writes
>Very seldom are prophecies as specific as "Myrtle Jones, who lives at
>123 Ash Street, Memphis, Tennessee, shall be the great leader who will
>guide her people to freedom, or at least to Atlanta, Georgia, in June
>of 2008."
There was the witch and prophetess, Agnes Nutter who, in the 1600s
memorably wrote "Buy ye not Beta Macks". (_Good Omens_ by Terry
Pratchett and Neil Gaiman)
--
To reply, my gmail address is nojay1 Robert Sneddon
Graham Woodland
>
> Laurie is of course the fellow who successfully predicted the
> utter destruction of the American East Coast on Dec 25 2007, by which
> I mean he was successful in issuing a series of words that in their
> aggregate formed a prediction. The actual event predicted did not
> occur but who worries about little details like that?
>
> Don't get me wrong: I enjoyed reading Simon R. Green's SHADOWS
> FALL and I will grant that in that specific case, it made sense for
> there to be a prophecy that came true (Having Father Time as a character
> can do that) but is anyone else sick of reams of fantasy novels where
> the prophecies always seem to be valid [1]? Can't there be one fantastic
> William Miller, sincere but utterly deluded?
>
> Or to put it another way, who are the fantastic William Millers,
> sincere but utterly deluded? I'm sure we've kicked this head around the
> court a few times.
>
>
Not sure I can help you there. In Tad Williams's multibrick _Memory,
Sorrow, and Thorn_, however, the governing prophecy turns out pretty
much accurate, without being exactly what I would call valid.
Even the Prophecies in Eddings' _Belgariad_ don't really seem to
represent foreknowledge (which is why one of them must, necessarily,
come very badly unstuck). Sure, they come over all 'Visualisation of
the Cosmic All' most of the time -- but Mentor's performance would have
been a great deal less impressive had he spent all his time running
around backstage making sure the barber's kitten jumped at the right
moment. C.f. the Light Prophecy's memorable remark when a 'lucky' storm
materialises implausibly to save the heroes' hides at a critical moment:
"I didn't come this far to be stopped by a pack of dogs!"
The trouble with prophecies that represent neither prescience, nor
supernatural agendas, nor elaborate scams in fancy dress, is that the
reader is apt to feel a bit let down after following a hero through
three books of desperate and perilous antics, only to find that the
Great Pumpkin of Doom is in fact precisely what it looks like and he has
achieved nothing except to make a thumping great ass of himself.
The prophecy in Brandon Sanderson's _Mistborn_ pretty clearly didn't go
right, and I'm not clear at this stage just how much it really had to
commend it. I shouldn't get your hopes up, though.
There is probably a quite elaborate and useful typology of fictional
prophecies just waiting to be evolved, though not necessarily by me.
Cheers.
Gray
Konrad Gaertner
>
> James Nicoll wrote:
> >
> > Or to put it another way, who are the fantastic William Millers,
> > sincere but utterly deluded? I'm sure we've kicked this head around the
> > court a few times.
>
> Not sure I can help you there. In Tad Williams's multibrick _Memory,
> Sorrow, and Thorn_, however, the governing prophecy turns out pretty
> much accurate, without being exactly what I would call valid.
I don't remember the prophecy in there, just the whole "beware the
false messenger" nonsense that was harped on all through the book,
only to be revealed (spoilers below)
> The prophecy in Brandon Sanderson's _Mistborn_ pretty clearly didn't go
> right, and I'm not clear at this stage just how much it really had to
> commend it. I shouldn't get your hopes up, though.
Actually, the prophecy may have been (or will be) correct on all
counts, it's just that (spoiler below)
SPOILERS for _To Green Angel Tower_
that there was no messenger. You had to stretch just to call it a
message, and even then I don't think it had enough content to be false.
SPOILERS for _Well of Ascension_
the reader (and the characters) haven't seen the original prophecy
[yet], just the deliberately altered version. And I really hate the
guy who knew the truth for talking so much about himself instead of
writing down the real prophecy with notes on the changes made.
--
Konrad Gaertner - - - - - - - - - - - - - email: kgae...@tx.rr.com
David DeLaney
>There is probably a quite elaborate and useful typology of fictional
>prophecies just waiting to be evolved, though not necessarily by me.
Prognostimancy - the magical art of predicting the future through comparative
analysis and dissection of prophecies, oracles, omens, and soothsayers. I See A
Great Need.
Dave "eye of Newt and toe of Rush" DeLaney
--
\/David DeLaney posting from d...@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Harry Erwin
> In message <v02jn3h0eotj8f9km...@4ax.com>,
> philos...@yahoo.com writes
>
> >Very seldom are prophecies as specific as "Myrtle Jones, who lives at
> >123 Ash Street, Memphis, Tennessee, shall be the great leader who will
> >guide her people to freedom, or at least to Atlanta, Georgia, in June
> >of 2008."
>
> There was the witch and prophetess, Agnes Nutter who, in the 1600s
> memorably wrote "Buy ye not Beta Macks". (_Good Omens_ by Terry
> Pratchett and Neil Gaiman)
Seems to have been a real person. I'm descended from her nephew, Hatevil
Nutter. 8)
--
Harry Erwin <http://www.theworld.com/~herwin>
My neuroscience wikiwiki is at
<http://scat-he-g4.sunderland.ac.uk/~harryerw/phpwiki/index.php>