Obvious SF book ripoffs in TV/movies?
DouhetSukd
superstore chain (the kind that hardly bothers to sell CDs anymore)
and I saw "Beastmaster" under TV DVDs.
That brought to mind the original BeastMaster movie, a fantasy hack &
slash, with a strapping young lad with as companions a tiger(lion?),
eagle and 2 ferrets who fights against the bad guys to save the comely
lass.
Except for the setting, Beastmaster seemed like a total ripoff of an
old Andre Norton book (whose name eludes me). It takes place in a
space opera war, but the animals are pretty much the same and I can't
see that as a coincidence.
Ditto, the Twilight Zone/Outer Limits? which apparently had some prize
ripoffs from SF writers. One particularly obnoxious case was the
story where someone passes through a village bringing the dead back to
life, for a price. Later on, the villagers all have pretty good
reasons why their loved ones were better left slumbering in their
graves, so the raiser palms a bribe to put them back.
That apparently was ripoff of a short story by well known SF writer in
the 60/70s (Harlan Ellison?) which I read later and yes, matched it
point for point. In this case, hard to believe anyone could argue
otherwise, it was that close.
Yasid, anyone?
Reading up on plagiarism trying to find the exact names of the "raise
the dead" stories, Harlan Ellison shows up, to sue the makers of
Terminator the movie for inspiring themselves from his story
'Soldier'. Now, I don't know if Terminator was as comprehensive a
copy - the idea of killing Hitler is a popular SF meme and Terminator
had a bunch of other ideas in its DNA.
It appears plagiarism is alive and well when it comes to SF. Anyone
have better examples?
Lawrence Watt-Evans
<douhe...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Except for the setting, Beastmaster seemed like a total ripoff of an
>old Andre Norton book (whose name eludes me). It takes place in a
>space opera war, but the animals are pretty much the same and I can't
>see that as a coincidence.
It wasn't a rip-off; they bought the rights. The movie was so bad
that Norton asked to have her name removed from the credits, but they
DID pay her.
The novel, by the way, was called _Beastmaster_.
>Ditto, the Twilight Zone/Outer Limits? which apparently had some prize
>ripoffs from SF writers. One particularly obnoxious case was the
>story where someone passes through a village bringing the dead back to
>life, for a price. Later on, the villagers all have pretty good
>reasons why their loved ones were better left slumbering in their
>graves, so the raiser palms a bribe to put them back.
>
>That apparently was ripoff of a short story by well known SF writer in
>the 60/70s (Harlan Ellison?) which I read later and yes, matched it
>point for point. In this case, hard to believe anyone could argue
>otherwise, it was that close.
>
>Yasid, anyone?
Don't know that one.
>Reading up on plagiarism trying to find the exact names of the "raise
>the dead" stories, Harlan Ellison shows up, to sue the makers of
>Terminator the movie for inspiring themselves from his story
>'Soldier'. Now, I don't know if Terminator was as comprehensive a
>copy - the idea of killing Hitler is a popular SF meme and Terminator
>had a bunch of other ideas in its DNA.
Yeah, but James Cameron was stupid enough to say in public that he'd
based his movie on two episodes of Outer Limits, "Soldier" and "Demon
with a Glass Hand," both of which were scripted by Ellison. When the
screenwriter SAYS he stole your stories, it's pretty easy to win a
lawsuit, which is why Ellison collected a nice settlement and has a
screen credit in the video release of "Terminator."
>It appears plagiarism is alive and well when it comes to SF. Anyone
>have better examples?
--
My webpage is at http://www.watt-evans.com
I'm serializing a novel at http://www.ethshar.com/TheFinalCalling01.html
David Johnston
> I was just browsing around in FutureShop an electronic/entertainment
> superstore chain (the kind that hardly bothers to sell CDs anymore)
> and I saw "Beastmaster" under TV DVDs.
>
> That brought to mind the original BeastMaster movie, a fantasy hack &
> slash, with a strapping young lad with as companions a tiger(lion?),
> eagle and 2 ferrets who fights against the bad guys to save the comely
> lass.
>
> Except for the setting, Beastmaster seemed like a total ripoff of an
> old Andre Norton book (whose name eludes me).
Beastmaster. They actually licensed it so it fits more into the bad
adaptation category than the plagiarism.
> It appears plagiarism is alive and well when it comes to SF. Anyone
> have better examples?
TNG's Sub Rosa versus the Witching Hour. TOS's Arena versus Browns
Arena. Tribbles versus Flatcats
Lawrence Watt-Evans
They paid for "Arena."
DouhetSukd
> On Dec 17, 12:01 am, DouhetSukd <douhets...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I was just browsing around in FutureShop an electronic/entertainment
> > superstore chain (the kind that hardly bothers to sell CDs anymore)
> > and I saw "Beastmaster" under TV DVDs.
>
> > That brought to mind the original BeastMaster movie, a fantasy hack &
> > slash, with a strapping young lad with as companions a tiger(lion?),
> > eagle and 2 ferrets who fights against the bad guys to save the comely
> > lass.
>
> > Except for the setting, Beastmaster seemed like a total ripoff of an
> > old Andre Norton book (whose name eludes me).
>
> Beastmaster. They actually licensed it so it fits more into the bad
> adaptation category than the plagiarism.
Ah, didn't realize that. Especially as it was rather different in
settings so it didn't look like it was doing an adaptation. I think I
had forgotten the title of the Andre Norton book by the time I first
saw the movie. But, honestly, what could Andre Norton expect, in the
days before CGI, in terms of quality? Beastmaster was silly, but not
unreasonably bad.
> > It appears plagiarism is alive and well when it comes to SF. Anyone
> > have better examples?
>
> TNG's Sub Rosa versus the Witching Hour. TOS's Arena versus Browns
> Arena. Tribbles versus Flatcats
Sadly, my poor TV is disconnected from cable and is only fed a diet of
blu-rays and dvds, so recent shows tend to escape me. I've
assiduously avoided any Treks since the 4th movie had them lifting
whales, so it took some trips to Wikipedia to fill the blanks. For
the Tribbles at least, it seems as if there was an agreement between
Gerrold and Heinlein about the similarities.
But that's a lot of guilt to lay just on assorted Treks.
BTW, a bit more searching found that it was a Twilight Zone episode
that ripped off Phillip Jose Farmer's 'Uproar in Acheron' story about
raising the dead.
tphile
> On Thu, 16 Dec 2010 23:01:36 -0800 (PST), DouhetSukd
>
> I'm serializing a novel athttp://www.ethshar.com/TheFinalCalling01.html
The Beastmaster is actually a pretty good low budget indie movie and a
cult classic.
and a big success on cable tv. There was a sequel and a tv series.
and for a bonus you get a naked Tanya Roberts. That can never be bad.
tphile
James Nicoll
DouhetSukd <douhe...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>It appears plagiarism is alive and well when it comes to SF. Anyone
>have better examples?
I heard mutterings that 1987's THE HIDDEN was based at least in part
on Clement's NEEDLE.
--
http://www.livejournal.com/users/james_nicoll
http://www.cafepress.com/jdnicoll (For all your "The problem with
defending the English language [...]" T-shirt, cup and tote-bag needs)
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
> I was just browsing around in FutureShop an electronic/entertainment
> superstore chain (the kind that hardly bothers to sell CDs anymore)
> and I saw "Beastmaster" under TV DVDs.
>
> That brought to mind the original BeastMaster movie, a fantasy hack&
> slash, with a strapping young lad with as companions a tiger(lion?),
> eagle and 2 ferrets who fights against the bad guys to save the comely
> lass.
>
> Except for the setting, Beastmaster seemed like a total ripoff of an
> old Andre Norton book (whose name eludes me). It takes place in a
> space opera war, but the animals are pretty much the same and I can't
> see that as a coincidence.
Andre Norton wrote a story called "Beastmaster" but IIRC it had little
to do with the movie.
>
> Ditto, the Twilight Zone/Outer Limits? which apparently had some prize
> ripoffs from SF writers.
It also employed (as did, for instance, Trek) SF writers who were not
averse to ripping THEMSELVES off or adapting their own work. "It's a
GOOD Life", for instance, or on Trek "Arena" and the animated "Slaver
Weapon".
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Website: http://www.grandcentralarena.com Blog:
http://seawasp.livejournal.com
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
I think Brown WROTE that, so it's not a ripoff.
> Tribbles versus Flatcats
RAH himself didn't consider it ripoff, and said that if they were, then
both of them were also ripping off the writer of "Pigs is Pigs", which
is the real archetype for such stories, and "maybe even Noah".
Drak Bibliophile
news:iefuk8$3u6$2...@news.eternal-september.org...
Apparently, there was a rumor that the Beastmaster movie was based on Andre
Norton's book but she had her name taken off the movie.
--
*
Paul Howard (Alias Drak Bibliophile)
*
Sometimes The Dragon Wins!
*
Will in New Haven
Actually, they all ripped off Bujold's butterbugs, just before she
wrote about them.
--
Will in New Haven
David Johnston
<seaw...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
> > TNG's Sub Rosa versus the Witching Hour. TOS's Arena versus Browns
> > Arena.
>
> I think Brown WROTE that, so it's not a ripoff
No, Gene Coon wrote it but before it went to air they noticed the
similarity so they settled the issue and gave Brown a screen credit.
>
> > Tribbles versus Flatcats
>
> RAH himself didn't consider it ripoff, and said that if they were, then
> both of them were also ripping off the writer of "Pigs is Pigs", which
> is the real archetype for such stories, and "maybe even Noah".
If Heinlein had been Ellison he would have been ready to sue, but of
course one can't copyright an idea
tphile
>
> - Show quoted text -
btw Beastmaster was written and directed by Don Coscarelli who we can
also
thank for Bubba Ho-tep and the cult classic series Phantasm.
Conan The Barbarian success inspired a lot of sword and sorcery movies
Beastmaster was one of the best of them, (and Singer a better actor)
as well as
The Sword and the Sorcerer
However Patrick Swayze in Steel Dawn is a different story, ACK
tphile
tphile
If Heinlein had been Ellison, there would have been a violent reaction
of mutual
destruction. Two superegos could not occupy the same space.
tphile
Lawrence Watt-Evans
wrote:
>On Dec 17, 1:13 am, Lawrence Watt-Evans <l...@sff.net> wrote:
>> On Thu, 16 Dec 2010 23:01:36 -0800 (PST), DouhetSukd
>>
>> <douhets...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >Except for the setting, Beastmaster seemed like a total ripoff of an
>> >old Andre Norton book (whose name eludes me). It takes place in a
>> >space opera war, but the animals are pretty much the same and I can't
>> >see that as a coincidence.
>>
>> It wasn't a rip-off; they bought the rights. The movie was so bad
>> that Norton asked to have her name removed from the credits, but they
>> DID pay her.
>>
>> The novel, by the way, was called _Beastmaster_.
>>
>The Beastmaster is actually a pretty good low budget indie movie and a
>cult classic.
>and a big success on cable tv. There was a sequel and a tv series.
>and for a bonus you get a naked Tanya Roberts. That can never be bad.
I never saw all of it, so I can't speak to its quality first-hand, but
Norton's agent (who also happens to be my agent) told me she wanted
her name off it because she thought it was crap.
Maybe she was wrong, but I think my source is pretty solid on this.
--
My webpage is at http://www.watt-evans.com
Lawrence Watt-Evans
<davidjo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On Dec 17, 8:14 am, "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)"
><seaw...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>
>> > TNG's Sub Rosa versus the Witching Hour. TOS's Arena versus Browns
>> > Arena.
>>
>> I think Brown WROTE that, so it's not a ripoff
>
>No, Gene Coon wrote it but before it went to air they noticed the
>similarity so they settled the issue and gave Brown a screen credit.
And money. That's the important part.
tphile
> I'm serializing a novel athttp://www.ethshar.com/TheFinalCalling01.html- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Norton has a right to her opinion and that should be respected but
that doesn't mean she was right
or that it is relevant.
Writers are very possessive about their work and usually hate it when
others alter/mess with it, even when given the right
too. and they especially hate it when the story is improved on.
Alan Moore is the same way about his adapted work. and Watchman and V
for Vendetta is not crap movies.
How would you feel if it was The Misenchanted Sword movie.
Forget the Norton connection and try watching it with an open
impartial mind and don't forget the open beer cans. ;-)
at least its not the atrocity known as Starship Troopers movie.
Lawrence Watt-Evans
wrote:
>On Dec 17, 10:48 am, Lawrence Watt-Evans <l...@sff.net> wrote:
>> On Fri, 17 Dec 2010 06:19:02 -0800 (PST), tphile <tph...@cableone.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >On Dec 17, 1:13 am, Lawrence Watt-Evans <l...@sff.net> wrote:
>> >> On Thu, 16 Dec 2010 23:01:36 -0800 (PST), DouhetSukd
>>
>> >> <douhets...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >Except for the setting, Beastmaster seemed like a total ripoff of an
>> >> >old Andre Norton book (whose name eludes me). It takes place in a
>> >> >space opera war, but the animals are pretty much the same and I can't
>> >> >see that as a coincidence.
>>
>> >> It wasn't a rip-off; they bought the rights. The movie was so bad
>> >> that Norton asked to have her name removed from the credits, but they
>> >> DID pay her.
>>
>> >> The novel, by the way, was called _Beastmaster_.
>>
>> >The Beastmaster is actually a pretty good low budget indie movie and a
>> >cult classic.
>> >and a big success on cable tv. There was a sequel and a tv series.
>> >and for a bonus you get a naked Tanya Roberts. That can never be bad.
>>
>> I never saw all of it, so I can't speak to its quality first-hand, but
>> Norton's agent (who also happens to be my agent) told me she wanted
>> her name off it because she thought it was crap.
>>
>> Maybe she was wrong, but I think my source is pretty solid on this.
>
>Norton has a right to her opinion and that should be respected but
>that doesn't mean she was right
>or that it is relevant.
It's relevant in that it's why her name wasn't all over the movie.
>How would you feel if it was The Misenchanted Sword movie.
I'm of the "take the money and run" school of thought.
>Forget the Norton connection and try watching it with an open
>impartial mind and don't forget the open beer cans. ;-)
I saw the last twenty minutes or so on TV; it didn't look awful, but I
didn't feel any need to watch the whole thing.
--
My webpage is at http://www.watt-evans.com
Wayne Throop
: I saw the last twenty minutes or so on TV; it didn't look awful, but I
: didn't feel any need to watch the whole thing.
My memory says I saw the whole thing, but a) it was quite forgettable,
and b) maybe it wasn't bad, but Lord, it wasn't good.
Though I suppose "forgettability" means it wasn't all bad.
Didn't have that "aauugghh, my eyes, it *burns*" thing going for it.
Wayne Throop thr...@sheol.org http://sheol.org/throopw
William George Ferguson
<sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>On 12/17/10 2:01 AM, DouhetSukd wrote:
>> I was just browsing around in FutureShop an electronic/entertainment
>> superstore chain (the kind that hardly bothers to sell CDs anymore)
>> and I saw "Beastmaster" under TV DVDs.
>>
>> That brought to mind the original BeastMaster movie, a fantasy hack&
>> slash, with a strapping young lad with as companions a tiger(lion?),
>> eagle and 2 ferrets who fights against the bad guys to save the comely
>> lass.
>>
>> Except for the setting, Beastmaster seemed like a total ripoff of an
>> old Andre Norton book (whose name eludes me). It takes place in a
>> space opera war, but the animals are pretty much the same and I can't
>> see that as a coincidence.
>
> Andre Norton wrote a story called "Beastmaster" but IIRC it had little
>to do with the movie.
As he said, the beast team is so closely the same as to make no never mind.
Dar had an eagle, a tiger (originally dyed black and supposed to be a
leopard), and two ferrets, Hosteen Storm had an eagle a 'dune cat' (a
genetically entineered African sand cat with other strains mixed in,
picture a cougar the size of a tiger), and two meercats. In all the
iterations after the first, the credits included a line something like
'based on the characters in Andre Norton's Beastmaster'.
--
I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.
(Bene Gesserit)
David Johnston
> Forget the Norton connection and try watching it with an open
> impartial mind and don't forget the open beer cans. ;-)
Without the Norton connection, it's still third rate hack work.
David Johnston
> On Fri, 17 Dec 2010 08:20:42 -0800 (PST), David Johnston
>
> >On Dec 17, 8:14 am, "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)"
> ><seaw...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>
> >> > TNG's Sub Rosa versus the Witching Hour. TOS's Arena versus Browns
> >> > Arena.
>
> >> I think Brown WROTE that, so it's not a ripoff
>
> >No, Gene Coon wrote it but before it went to air they noticed the
> >similarity so they settled the issue and gave Brown a screen credit.
>
> And money. That's the important part
"money" is what I meant by "settled the issue"
John F. Eldredge
Incidentally, Andre Norton herself goofed when she named the Navajo
protagonist in _Beast Master_ Hosteen Storm. From what I have
subsequently learned from other reading, "Hosteen" is not a proper name
in the Navajo language; instead, it is a term of respect used before a
name when talking to a man older than oneself. It is as if she had given
the character the first name "Mister", or "Elder".
--
John F. Eldredge -- jo...@jfeldredge.com
"Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly
is better than not to think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria
Greg Goss
>It appears plagiarism is alive and well when it comes to SF. Anyone
>have better examples?
A lot of classic SF were remade as Twilight Zone with permission. I
was never a big TZ watcher, so the only one that comes to mind is "The
Little Black Bag." Similarly, "The Soft Weapon" was badly rewritten
into animaTrek.
--
Tomorrow is today already.
Greg Goss, 1989-01-27
Greg Goss
>Norton has a right to her opinion and that should be respected but
>that doesn't mean she was right or that it is relevant.
>Writers are very possessive about their work and usually hate it when
>others alter/mess with it, even when given the right
>too. and they especially hate it when the story is improved on.
"If you want the big chunks of money that a movie can provide, you
need to drive with your book to the California border. Throw the book
over the border and hope that they throw money back. If you get any
more emotionally involved with the production of a movie from your
book, then you WILL be hurt.
(distant paraphrase of something that Heinlein said after consulting
with Destination Moon.)
Lynn McGuire
Jerry Pournelle said that he has sold the movie rights to
all his books but none of them made it to the screen yet.
And maybe never. James Cameron bought _The_Mote_In_Gods_Eye_
http://www.amazon.com/Mote-Gods-Eye-Larry-Niven/dp/0671741926/
but chose to make some movie called _Avatar_ instead.
Lynn
Greg Goss
>Jerry Pournelle said that he has sold the movie rights to
>all his books but none of them made it to the screen yet.
Pournelle (or Niven) once said something bitter about what Meteor did
to the impending movie "Lucifer's Hammer". A couple of decades later
he's learned to accept it.
Greg Goss
>Incidentally, Andre Norton herself goofed when she named the Navajo
>protagonist in _Beast Master_ Hosteen Storm. From what I have
>subsequently learned from other reading, "Hosteen" is not a proper name
>in the Navajo language; instead, it is a term of respect used before a
>name when talking to a man older than oneself. It is as if she had given
>the character the first name "Mister", or "Elder".
I am taking a course from Maria Elder at the moment.
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
news:8n21me...@mid.individual.net:
But not Elder Maria.
--
Terry Austin
"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek
Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Michael Stemper
>On Dec 17, 10:14=A0am, "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seaw...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>> On 12/17/10 2:15 AM, David Johnston wrote:
>> >> That brought to mind the original BeastMaster movie, a fantasy hack&
>> >> slash, with a strapping young lad with as companions a tiger(lion?),
>> >> eagle and 2 ferrets who fights against the bad guys to save the comely
>> >> lass.
>> >> It appears plagiarism is alive and well when it comes to SF. =A0Anyone
>> >> have better examples?
>>
>> > TNG's Sub Rosa versus the Witching Hour. =A0TOS's Arena versus Browns
>> > Arena.
>>
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 I think Brown WROTE that, so it's not a ripoff.
>>
>> > Tribbles versus Flatcats
>>
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 RAH himself didn't consider it ripoff, and said that if t=
>hey were, then
>> both of them were also ripping off the writer of "Pigs is Pigs", which
>> is the real archetype for such stories, and "maybe even Noah".
>
>Actually, they all ripped off Bujold's butterbugs, just before she
>wrote about them.
Who's Cribbing?
--
Michael F. Stemper
#include <Standard_Disclaimer>
Twenty-four hours in a day; twenty-four beers in a case. Coincidence?
Steve Coltrin
Lawrence Watt-Evans <l...@sff.net> writes:
> On Thu, 16 Dec 2010 23:15:35 -0800 (PST), David Johnston
> <davidjo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>TNG's Sub Rosa versus the Witching Hour. TOS's Arena versus Browns
>>Arena. Tribbles versus Flatcats
>
> They paid for "Arena."
Also, pigs is pigs.
--
Steve Coltrin spco...@omcl.org Google Groups killfiled here
"A group known as the League of Human Dignity helped arrange for Deuel
to be driven to a local livestock scale, where he could be weighed."
- Associated Press
Steve Coltrin
Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> writes:
And I'm aware of at least one murderer whose actual first name is Mister.
David Goldfarb
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>On 12/17/10 2:15 AM, David Johnston wrote:
>
> I think Brown WROTE that, so it's not a ripoff.
No, the TOS episode was written by Gene L. Coon. I've read that he
independently invented the concept, and then Desilu's legal department
thought it was too close to Brown's story, so they contacted Brown
and paid him some money, and called it an adaptation. If you watch
the episode and read the story you can see they're not really all
that similar.
--
David Goldfarb |From the fortune cookie file:
gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu |
gold...@csua.berkeley.edu |"You have at your command the wisdom of the ages."
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
David Goldfarb <gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu> wrote:
>In article <iefuoc$3u6$3...@news.eternal-september.org>,
>Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>>On 12/17/10 2:15 AM, David Johnston wrote:
>>> TOS's Arena versus Brown's Arena.
>>
>> I think Brown WROTE that, so it's not a ripoff.
>
>No, the TOS episode was written by Gene L. Coon. I've read that he
>independently invented the concept, and then Desilu's legal department
>thought it was too close to Brown's story, so they contacted Brown
>and paid him some money, and called it an adaptation. If you watch
>the episode and read the story you can see they're not really all
>that similar.
>
The *legal department* was familiar with Fredric Brown stories?
Ted
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
David Cowie
> Actually, they all ripped off Bujold's butterbugs, just before she wrote
> about them.
What's that quote about "Strongly derivative of later work" ?
--
David Cowie http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidcowie/
Containment Failure + 62166:37
PeterM
> It appears plagiarism is alive and well when it comes to SF. Anyone
> have better examples?
Dunno about better, but my favorite example is comic to
cartoon. Marvel Two-In-One Annual #7 introduced the
Champion, a super-powered alien obsessed with hand to
hand combat. His MO was to travel the universe and
challenge the best fighters of each planet, then judge
whether the planet deserves to exist. He fights all of the
Marvel strongmen, but only the Thing gives him a true
fight and lasts three full rounds. No one in the universe
has ever lasted longer than two. It was dumb and hokey
and corny as all hell, but it was a great read and really
did a good job explaining why the Thing is a true heavyweight
even though he's not as strong or tough as a lot of other
super-types.
That was back in the early 80's. Flash-forward to the mid 90's
and the cartoon Dexter's Laboratory, which had a backup feature
called Dial M For Monkey, about a mild-mannered lab monkey
who was secretly a superhero. A superpowered alien named
Rasslor (voiced awesomely by Macho Man Randy Savage)
comes to town and forces all the super-types into single
combat. Monkey, of course, is the only one who truly challenges
him.
I see absolutely no way it was an independent creation,
though the idea alone isn't all that unique. But at least a
few of Rasslor's lines were ripped off from the comic, including
"I could smash your body, but I could never break your spirit!"
Which, for those wondering, is just as awesome as you'd expect
when spoken by the Macho Man.
I remember posting about it on the Marvel comics group when
it first aired, and one of the pros there (I think it was Kurt Busiek,
actually) said that Tom DeFalco, the writer of the original comic,
thought it was hilarious. So that's good, at least.
Robert Sneddon
<t...@loft.tnolan.com> writes
>In article <LDLF2...@kithrup.com>,
>David Goldfarb <gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu> wrote:
>>In article <iefuoc$3u6$3...@news.eternal-september.org>,
>>Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>>>On 12/17/10 2:15 AM, David Johnston wrote:
>>>> TOS's Arena versus Brown's Arena.
>>>
>>> I think Brown WROTE that, so it's not a ripoff.
>>
>>No, the TOS episode was written by Gene L. Coon.
>
No but they know a man who was... The Trouble With Tribbles ST episode
was famously linked with Heinlein's "Rolling Stones" story via the
Martian flat cats which ate voraciously and reproduced ad infinitum just
like the titular tribbles. David Gerrold wrote in his book about writing
the Tribbles episode for Star Trek that he had not consciously copied
the concept from the Heinlein story but someone in the script review
department in Desilu studios spotted the similarity and sorted out the
rights with RAH before the lawsuits started flying.
I sometimes wonder if occasional YASIDs on this august 'froup are from
script reviewers trying to figure out if a given script or treatment has
any conceptual predecessors in SF literature...
--
To reply, my gmail address is nojay1 Robert Sneddon
Walter Bushell
Steve Coltrin <spco...@omcl.org> wrote:
> begin fnord
> Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> writes:
>
> > "John F. Eldredge" <jo...@jfeldredge.com> wrote:
> >
> >>Incidentally, Andre Norton herself goofed when she named the Navajo
> >>protagonist in _Beast Master_ Hosteen Storm. From what I have
> >>subsequently learned from other reading, "Hosteen" is not a proper name
> >>in the Navajo language; instead, it is a term of respect used before a
> >>name when talking to a man older than oneself. It is as if she had given
> >>the character the first name "Mister", or "Elder".
> >
> > I am taking a course from Maria Elder at the moment.
>
> And I'm aware of at least one murderer whose actual first name is Mister.
Anyone know someone whose name is Mister Mister Mister Mister? And his
wife Mrs. Mister Mister Mister?
--
The Chinese pretend their goods are good and we pretend our money
is good, or is it the reverse?
Brian M. Scott
Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote in
<news:Xns9E5188777C0...@69.16.186.7> in
rec.arts.sf.written:
> Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote in
> news:8n21me...@mid.individual.net:
>> "John F. Eldredge" <jo...@jfeldredge.com> wrote:
>>> Incidentally, Andre Norton herself goofed when she named
>>> the Navajo protagonist in _Beast Master_ Hosteen Storm.
>>> From what I have subsequently learned from other
>>> reading, "Hosteen" is not a proper name in the Navajo
>>> language; instead, it is a term of respect used before
>>> a name when talking to a man older than oneself. It is
>>> as if she had given the character the first name
>>> "Mister", or "Elder".
>> I am taking a course from Maria Elder at the moment.
> But not Elder Maria.
I once had a student whose name was <Sir Christian>.
Brian
John F. Eldredge
Well, English-language use does have the occasional person with a first
name that would normally be a title. It isn't particularly common. I
don't know if this ever occurs in the Navajo language, however. Are
there any Navajo-speakers in the newsgroup who could comment on this
issue?
Joy Beeson
wrote:
> Though I suppose "forgettability" means it wasn't all bad.
> Didn't have that "aauugghh, my eyes, it *burns*" thing going for it.
I remember a good bit of the Beastmaster movie, mainly that it did not
resemble the book in any way, shape, or form. I wondered whether they
were aware that there was an SF novel of the same name; the presence
of the animals suggested that they did, but they weren't much like
Hosteen's team.
The make-up team couldn't make up their mind whether or not to oil the
protagonist, causing him to appear to break out in sweat at random
intervals utterly unrelated to what was going on.
But one did get to see quite a lot of John Amos wearing nothing much.
--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Yeah, I made the connection immediately too. It was a great comic.
I wonder if the cartoon started as a parody like the Dexter's Lab
"Speed Racer" episode or the Freakazoid "Toby Danger" episode and
then just decided not to actually put in a twist.
Not SF at all, but there was "Laverne & Shirley" eposode that was
exactly the same as a "Bobby Sherman Show" episode..
David Johnston
>
> Well, English-language use does have the occasional person with a first
> name that would normally be a title. It isn't particularly common. I
> don't know if this ever occurs in the Navajo language, however. Are
> there any Navajo-speakers in the newsgroup who could comment on this
> issue?
Of course since everything Norton wrote that was after Postmarked the
Stars was thousands of years in the future, who can say how the rules
of language would change?
Jack Bohn
>DouhetSukd <douhe...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>It appears plagiarism is alive and well when it comes to SF. Anyone
>>have better examples?
>
>A lot of classic SF were remade as Twilight Zone with permission. I
>was never a big TZ watcher, so the only one that comes to mind is "The
>Little Black Bag." Similarly, "The Soft Weapon" was badly rewritten
>into animaTrek.
Well, there's "I Sing the Body Electric" which should be recognizable,
and of course he gave Damon Knight's story a vastly greater
meme-space. Makes one wonder why he would decide he could rip off
Farmer and/or others.
I could wish there were a FAQ, or extension of one of the Wikipedia
pages on "* adapted from novels" to look this up... Did any of the
other anthology series adopt from written sf? Were "Demon with a
Glass Hand" and "Soldier" published as prose before they were scripts?
(Alfred Hitchcock famously adapted, he said he didn't think writer's
would put forth their best effort merely to redound to the credit of
Alfred Hitchcock.) I find it interesting that Star Trek as a
"continuing anthology" adapted three written works in three
incarnations: the afore mentioned "Arena" and "The Soft Weapon," and
in The Next Generation David Bischoff's _Tin Woodman_.
--
-Jack
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
> On Dec 16, 11:01 pm, DouhetSukd<douhets...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> It appears plagiarism is alive and well when it comes to SF. Anyone
>> have better examples?
>
> Dunno about better, but my favorite example is comic to
> cartoon. Marvel Two-In-One Annual #7 introduced the
> Champion, a super-powered alien obsessed with hand to
> hand combat. His MO was to travel the universe and
> challenge the best fighters of each planet, then judge
> whether the planet deserves to exist. He fights all of the
> Marvel strongmen, but only the Thing gives him a true
> fight and lasts three full rounds. No one in the universe
> has ever lasted longer than two. It was dumb and hokey
> and corny as all hell, but it was a great read and really
> did a good job explaining why the Thing is a true heavyweight
> even though he's not as strong or tough as a lot of other
> super-types.
It was well written as far as one could expect; obviously this came at
the peak of the boxing revival caused by "Rocky", and thus it was the
Thing's heart that got him to that level. He just didn't QUIT.
I remember, however, being very annoyed at The Champion for being an
inconsistent, or at the least conveniently arbitrary, bastard,
disqualifying at least two people for quickly-invented reasons (The Hulk
because "I will not sully my hands with a mindless brute" -- Hulk not
mindless, Hulk just not waste time thinking like Puny Banner!, and Thor,
who the Champion kicked out of the ring for using his Hammer -- even
though Thor has the damn thing on him ALL THE TIME (I don't recall if he
HAD to have it with him; for a long time Thor could not be separated
from the Hammer for more than 60 seconds, which would make 3-minute
rounds... problematic.)
>
> That was back in the early 80's. Flash-forward to the mid 90's
> and the cartoon Dexter's Laboratory, which had a backup feature
> called Dial M For Monkey, about a mild-mannered lab monkey
> who was secretly a superhero. A superpowered alien named
> Rasslor (voiced awesomely by Macho Man Randy Savage)
> comes to town and forces all the super-types into single
> combat. Monkey, of course, is the only one who truly challenges
> him.
>
> I see absolutely no way it was an independent creation,
No, that's parody, basically, as the whole Dexter's Lab/Justice Friends
universe is a parody of a lot of things. And parody is not ripoff but
explicitly protected fair use. That's why, for instance, Galaxy Quest
could be such an obvious clone of Star Trek.
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Website: http://www.grandcentralarena.com Blog:
http://seawasp.livejournal.com
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
I've had the first query for rights from my material (GCA and
Threshold). No money yet.
The quote I recall most about working with Hollywood is roughly to the
effect that (if you're male) they put your balls in a vise and then hand
you a hundred dollar bill, then tighten the vise a little and hand you
another hundred dollar bill. They stop handing you money when you tell
them to stop tightening the vise.
Howard Brazee
<davidjo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Well, English-language use does have the occasional person with a first
>> name that would normally be a title. It isn't particularly common. I
>> don't know if this ever occurs in the Navajo language, however. Are
>> there any Navajo-speakers in the newsgroup who could comment on this
>> issue?
>
>Of course since everything Norton wrote that was after Postmarked the
>Stars was thousands of years in the future, who can say how the rules
>of language would change?
Heck, we can see this level of language gaffe becoming accepted right
now.
--
"In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found,
than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace
to the legislature, and not to the executive department."
- James Madison
Quadibloc
> It appears plagiarism is alive and well when it comes to SF. Anyone
> have better examples?
Well, I was shocked to find a short novel by the famous author Herman
Wouk called "The Lomokome Papers".
They purport to be writings left behind by an astronaut who landed on
the Moon and died for lack of oxygen - released under protest by the
U.S. Military, who claims them to be but unfortunate delusions.
In them, the astronaut encounters a Lunar civilization. It turns out
the Moon was devastated by a war between two sides. Now it is still
being fought, but under "The Law of Reasonable War". Now, they don't
use bombs and guns.
Instead, a small number of children from both sides are raised to be
neutral, and to supervise war games between the two sides. Based on
the results of those war games, those who would have died, had the war
being simulated been real, report to be executed.
This is, of course, pretty much the premise of the Star Trek episode
"A Taste of Armageddon".
John Savard
Greg Goss
>On Dec 17, 12:01 am, DouhetSukd <douhets...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> It appears plagiarism is alive and well when it comes to SF. Anyone
>> have better examples?
>
>TNG's Sub Rosa versus the Witching Hour. TOS's Arena versus Browns
>Arena. Tribbles versus Flatcats
Heinlein specifically disclaimed that Tribbles were a ripoff of
flatcats and that he enjoyed the Star Trek story. If the owner says
"that wasn't stolen from me" on a bit of intellectual property, does
that settle the issue?
Christian Weisgerber
[Beastmaster]
> My memory says I saw the whole thing, but a) it was quite forgettable,
> and b) maybe it wasn't bad, but Lord, it wasn't good.
I remember the ferrets. They were insanely cute.
--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber na...@mips.inka.de
rincewind
> On Dec 17, 10:17 am, tphile <tph...@cableone.net> wrote:
>
> > Forget the Norton connection and try watching it with an open
> > impartial mind and don't forget the open beer cans. ;-)
>
> Without the Norton connection, it's still third rate hack work.
I didn't know about the Norton connection and I thought it was third
rate hack work.
rincewind
> Lynn McGuire <l...@winsim.com> wrote:
> >Jerry Pournelle said that he has sold the movie rights to
> >all his books but none of them made it to the screen yet.
>
> Pournelle (or Niven) once said something bitter about what Meteor did
> to the impending movie "Lucifer's Hammer". A couple of decades later
> he's learned to accept it.
There was a TV movie about a comet hitting the Earth (oddly enough,
like Lucifer's Hammer, it had a boy scout troop in the woods.) The
major difference was that in Niven's book, no one really believed the
Hammer would fall until it was too late. In the TV movie, the
scientists knew, but decided it would cause panic to warn people. One
guy finally took over the news program and announced that people
should get the Hell out of the city.
rincewind
> In article <m262us58xd....@kelutral.omcl.org>,
>
> > >>Incidentally, Andre Norton herself goofed when she named the Navajo
> > >>protagonist in _Beast Master_ Hosteen Storm. From what I have
> > >>subsequently learned from other reading, "Hosteen" is not a proper name
> > >>in the Navajo language; instead, it is a term of respect used before a
> > >>name when talking to a man older than oneself. It is as if she had given
> > >>the character the first name "Mister", or "Elder".
>
> > > I am taking a course from Maria Elder at the moment.
>
> > And I'm aware of at least one murderer whose actual first name is Mister.
>
> Anyone know someone whose name is Mister Mister Mister Mister? And his
> wife Mrs. Mister Mister Mister?
"Who promoted Major Major?"
rincewind
> On Thu, 16 Dec 2010 23:15:35 -0800 (PST), David Johnston
>
>
>
> <davidjohnsto...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >On Dec 17, 12:01 am, DouhetSukd <douhets...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> superstore chain (the kind that hardly bothers to sell CDs anymore)
> >> and I saw "Beastmaster" under TV DVDs.
>
> >> That brought to mind the original BeastMaster movie, a fantasy hack &
> >> slash, with a strapping young lad with as companions a tiger(lion?),
> >> eagle and 2 ferrets who fights against the bad guys to save the comely
> >> lass.
>
> >> old Andre Norton book (whose name eludes me).
>
> >Beastmaster. They actually licensed it so it fits more into the bad
> >adaptation category than the plagiarism.
>
> >> It appears plagiarism is alive and well when it comes to SF. Anyone
> >> have better examples?
>
> >TNG's Sub Rosa versus the Witching Hour. TOS's Arena versus Browns
> >Arena. Tribbles versus Flatcats
>
...and Heinlein read the script for "Tribbles" and decided it wasn't
actionable. His comment (I can't recall the name of the author) was
that both he and Gerrold owed a debt to the man who wrote "Pigs is
Pigs."
rincewind
> DouhetSukd <douhets...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >It appears plagiarism is alive and well when it comes to SF. Anyone
> >have better examples?
>
> was never a big TZ watcher, so the only one that comes to mind is "The
> Little Black Bag." Similarly, "The Soft Weapon" was badly rewritten
> into animaTrek.
"The Little Black Bag" was a "Night Gallery." Not bad. Not as good as
the original story.
Taki Kogoma
allegedly proclaimed to rec.arts.sf.written:
> In message <8n28e2...@mid.individual.net>, "Ted Nolan <tednolan>"
><t...@loft.tnolan.com> writes
>>In article <LDLF2...@kithrup.com>,
>>David Goldfarb <gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu> wrote:
>>>In article <iefuoc$3u6$3...@news.eternal-september.org>,
>>>Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>>>>On 12/17/10 2:15 AM, David Johnston wrote:
>>>>> TOS's Arena versus Brown's Arena.
>>>>
>>>> I think Brown WROTE that, so it's not a ripoff.
>>>
>>>No, the TOS episode was written by Gene L. Coon.
>>
>>The *legal department* was familiar with Fredric Brown stories?
Legal departments in the entertainment industry have in-house or contracted
researchers to look for potential Intellectual Property issues. It's part of
the business.
> No but they know a man who was... The Trouble With Tribbles ST episode
> was famously linked with Heinlein's "Rolling Stones" story via the
> Martian flat cats which ate voraciously and reproduced ad infinitum just
> like the titular tribbles. David Gerrold wrote in his book about writing
> the Tribbles episode for Star Trek that he had not consciously copied
> the concept from the Heinlein story but someone in the script review
> department in Desilu studios spotted the similarity and sorted out the
> rights with RAH before the lawsuits started flying.
IIRC, Heinlein was very gracious about the whole thing, just asking for a copy
of the script (as NBC was not on the air where he was living at the time), and
making the "Pigs is Pigs" comparison.
--
Capt. Gym Z. Quirk (Known to some as Taki Kogoma) quirk @ swcp.com
Just an article detector on the Information Supercollider.
Howard Brazee
<edrh...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Anyone know someone whose name is Mister Mister Mister Mister? And his
>> wife Mrs. Mister Mister Mister?
>
>"Who promoted Major Major?"
How did Sargent Shriver get to be so powerful?
Lawrence Watt-Evans
wrote:
>Were "Demon with a
>Glass Hand" and "Soldier" published as prose before they were scripts?
No.
--
My webpage is at http://www.watt-evans.com
I'm serializing a novel at http://www.ethshar.com/TheFinalCalling01.html
Christian Weisgerber
> Ditto, the Twilight Zone/Outer Limits? which apparently had some prize
> ripoffs from SF writers.
You better check the writing credits. Many of those may be official
adaptations.
_Sanctuary_ episode 1.05, "Kush", is very much "Who Goes There?",
including blood test and all, but Campbell's name doesn't show up
anywhere.
tphile
> On Sat, 18 Dec 2010 05:54:47 -0500, Jack Bohn <jackb...@bright.net>
> wrote:
>
> >Were "Demon with a
> >Glass Hand" and "Soldier" published as prose before they were scripts?
>
> No.
>
> --
> I'm serializing a novel athttp://www.ethshar.com/TheFinalCalling01.html
James Camerons Avatar was obviously influenced by ERB's Barsoom.
Dejah Thoris, Thuvia and John Carter of Mars.
Large animals with six legs and rows of teeth, naked blue instead of
naked red
and Aliens was his take on Starship Troopers.
If you don't own the rights of it, take the bit you like, mix them a
bit and make something new
or different.
and that happens all the time
Green Lantern Corps took a lot from Lensman
Supermans Fortress of Solitude was originally owned by Doc Savage
George Lucas borrowed lots of sources for Star Wars.
tphile
> Greg Goss wrote:
The ST Animated The Soft/Slaver Weapon may still be considered a
ripoff
but in reverse. Niven may have been too lazy or busy to come up with
an original story
and instead just adapted one already written. Cheap and fast and with
little effort.
Granted the story adapted well into the STverse with Spock in the
Nessus the Puppeteer role.
and the Kzinti became a ST race.
Which could mean the Pak Protectors exist in the ST verse, which makes
for some interesting speculation
and matchups
Could the Borg beat the Pak or the Puppeteers?
tphile
Bill Snyder
<l...@sff.net> wrote:
>On Sat, 18 Dec 2010 05:54:47 -0500, Jack Bohn <jack...@bright.net>
>wrote:
>
>>Were "Demon with a
>>Glass Hand" and "Soldier" published as prose before they were scripts?
>
>No.
ISTR reading an Ellison short story quite similar to the "Soldier"
episode in one of his early collections, and ISFDB shows one
published in 1957.
--
Bill Snyder [This space unintentionally left blank]
James Nicoll
tphile <tph...@cableone.net> wrote:
>Green Lantern Corps took a lot from Lensman
Although I seem to recall Broome and Schwartz claimed the similarities
were not due to borrowing.
As I recall, The Time Traveller (the fanzine Schwartz was involved with)
actually published some material by Smith, a round-robin called COSMOS.
--
http://www.livejournal.com/users/james_nicoll
http://www.cafepress.com/jdnicoll (For all your "The problem with
defending the English language [...]" T-shirt, cup and tote-bag needs)
Mike Ash
<e70a553a-c6c8-4ecf...@l24g2000vby.googlegroups.com>,
tphile <tph...@cableone.net> wrote:
> The ST Animated The Soft/Slaver Weapon may still be considered a
> ripoff
> but in reverse. Niven may have been too lazy or busy to come up with
> an original story
> and instead just adapted one already written. Cheap and fast and with
> little effort.
> Granted the story adapted well into the STverse with Spock in the
> Nessus the Puppeteer role.
> and the Kzinti became a ST race.
> Which could mean the Pak Protectors exist in the ST verse, which makes
> for some interesting speculation
> and matchups
> Could the Borg beat the Pak or the Puppeteers?
I'd think not. Known Space's tech level got so high that Niven pretty
much gave up on being able to write believable peril, and to the extent
that he could it tended to hinge on overpowering the high tech with even
crazier and higher tech.
Between scrith, General Products hulls, and stasis fields, the Pak and
Puppeteers already have THREE completely indestructible defenses. The
Puppeteers are able to accelerate entire planets up to a decent fraction
of lightspeed. The Pak were able to build the Ringworld and accelerate
*it* up to an unholy speed. I don't think they would even *beat* the
Borg, they'd just put some of the Borg ships in a museum somewhere, and
build a nice little Map of Borg in one of the Ringworld's Great Oceans.
--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
> In article<c7716381-e95f-4449...@p38g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>,
> tphile<tph...@cableone.net> wrote:
>
>> Green Lantern Corps took a lot from Lensman
>
> Although I seem to recall Broome and Schwartz claimed the similarities
> were not due to borrowing.
Though later GL series explicitly bowed in his direction with the two
Green Lanterns Arisia and Eddore (the latter being a shapeless blob,
just like the original Eddorians).
James Nicoll
>> In article<c7716381-e95f-4449...@p38g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>,
>> tphile<tph...@cableone.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Green Lantern Corps took a lot from Lensman
>>
>> Although I seem to recall Broome and Schwartz claimed the similarities
>> were not due to borrowing.
>
> Though later GL series explicitly bowed in his direction with the two
>Green Lanterns Arisia and Eddore (the latter being a shapeless blob,
>just like the original Eddorians).
>
which I assume was an attempt to make Superman's cosplay make-out
session with Kal El's cousin Kara seem acceptable by comparison.
Bill Snyder
wrote:
Scrith is tough, but wasn't Fist-of-God Mountain in the original
_Ringworld_ the effect of a meteor punching through?
PeterM
<seaw...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
> On 12/17/10 7:25 PM, PeterM wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Dec 16, 11:01 pm, DouhetSukd<douhets...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> It appears plagiarism is alive and well when it comes to SF. Anyone
> >> have better examples?
>
> > Dunno about better, but my favorite example is comic to
> > cartoon. Marvel Two-In-One Annual #7 introduced the
> > Champion, a super-powered alien obsessed with hand to
> > hand combat. His MO was to travel the universe and
> > challenge the best fighters of each planet, then judge
> > whether the planet deserves to exist. He fights all of the
> > Marvel strongmen, but only the Thing gives him a true
> > fight and lasts three full rounds. No one in the universe
> > has ever lasted longer than two. It was dumb and hokey
> > and corny as all hell, but it was a great read and really
> > did a good job explaining why the Thing is a true heavyweight
> > even though he's not as strong or tough as a lot of other
> > super-types.
>
> It was well written as far as one could expect; obviously this came at
> the peak of the boxing revival caused by "Rocky", and thus it was the
> Thing's heart that got him to that level. He just didn't QUIT.
It looks like Rocky III came out earlier in the year, so I'd
say you hit the nail on the head there. I thought the movie
came out in '84 or so.
Which is not to say you couldn't decide to do a Rocky homage
based off of the first two movies, but the third is where things
started to get ridiculously awesome. And then Rocky IV defeated
the entire Soviet Union single-handedly, which even I thought
was excessive.
> I remember, however, being very annoyed at The Champion for being an
> inconsistent, or at the least conveniently arbitrary, bastard,
> disqualifying at least two people for quickly-invented reasons (The Hulk
> because "I will not sully my hands with a mindless brute" -- Hulk not
> mindless, Hulk just not waste time thinking like Puny Banner!,
This one I'll definitely grant you. Total cop out. Had the Hulk
ever been knocked out at that point? The Champion could
easily have won a boxing match against any version of the
Hulk on points, in my opinion, but they had to have him
either KO his opponents or hurt them so bad the ref had
to stop the fight for the Thing's surviving three whole rounds
to be as awesome as they wanted. And they most likely
didn't want to show that happening to the Hulk. They should
have figured out a way to keep him out of it altogether. He
was in another dimension at the time, or something.
> and Thor,
> who the Champion kicked out of the ring for using his Hammer -- even
> though Thor has the damn thing on him ALL THE TIME (I don't recall if he
> HAD to have it with him; for a long time Thor could not be separated
> from the Hammer for more than 60 seconds, which would make 3-minute
> rounds... problematic.)
I vaguely recall that that's why they let him keep the hammer, yeah.
And I'm pretty sure he got disqualified for throwing it at the
Champion,
which I would definitely rule a no-no in a boxing match. This isn't
wrestling, with an entire arsenal of deadly weapons stored underneath
the ring.
I only vaguely recall how the other combatants lost. Wonder Man
started tearing up the ring to use the debris as a weapon, so he
was disqualified. Sasquatch was knocked out, I think. Colossus
absorbed a huge amount of punishment before the ref stopped
the fight. I think the Sub-Mariner was disqualified for refusing to
participate.
> > That was back in the early 80's. Flash-forward to the mid 90's
> > and the cartoon Dexter's Laboratory, which had a backup feature
> > called Dial M For Monkey, about a mild-mannered lab monkey
> > who was secretly a superhero. A superpowered alien named
> > Rasslor (voiced awesomely by Macho Man Randy Savage)
> > comes to town and forces all the super-types into single
> > combat. Monkey, of course, is the only one who truly challenges
> > him.
>
> > I see absolutely no way it was an independent creation,
>
> No, that's parody, basically, as the whole Dexter's Lab/Justice Friends
> universe is a parody of a lot of things. And parody is not ripoff but
> explicitly protected fair use. That's why, for instance, Galaxy Quest
> could be such an obvious clone of Star Trek.
If Galaxy Quest had used the unmodified plot of a specific
episode, complete with verbatim or put-near verbatim dialogue,
it would be different. I'm not sure if I'd say the Dexter episode
was actual plagiarism as opposed to parody, but I think it came
a heckuva lot closer to the line than Galaxy Quest did.
And there's another animated example of ripping off that comes
to mind. The Incredibles. Not plot-wise, but characters. A super
team that's composed of a strongman, a stretchy person,
someone who becomes invisible and creates force fields, and
a small child that might just be more powerful than all of them
put together? Dash is the only member of the core four that
doesn't map directly onto the Fantastic Four. Vi having both
invisibility AND force fields can't possibly be coincidence
because those two just don't go together unless you're copying
Sue Richards.
I don't think Marvel should have sued or anything, and I don't
think they would or should have won if they had, but I'm kinda
surprised they didn't. Seems like too smart a decision for them.
Wayne Throop
:: Marvel Two-In-One Annual #7 introduced the Champion, a super-powered
:: alien obsessed with hand to hand combat. [...]
:: Flash-forward to the mid 90's and the cartoon Dexter's Laboratory,
:: which had a backup feature called Dial M For Monkey, about a
:: mild-mannered lab monkey who was secretly a superhero. A
:: superpowered alien named Rasslor (voiced awesomely by Macho Man Randy
:: Savage) comes to town and forces all the super-types into single
Well DUH. Rasslor even says "Now and forever, I am the Champion".
I don't think that was quite coincidence.
: "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com>
: No, that's parody, basically, as the whole Dexter's Lab/Justice
: Friends universe is a parody of a lot of things.
Indeed. Like, you think the Infragable Krunk has purple skin and
green pants instead of green skin and purple pants by coincidence?
Also note that the very next episode of DMfM was "Barbequor".
The fiends! They ripped off Galactus!
"Major Glory - you speak boldly and your breath is minty fresh.
For this, I salute you!"
--- Rasselor
Wayne Throop thr...@sheol.org http://sheol.org/throopw
Wayne Throop
: Yeah, I made the connection immediately too. It was a great comic. I
: wonder if the cartoon started as a parody like the Dexter's Lab "Speed
: Racer" episode or the Freakazoid "Toby Danger" episode and then just
: decided not to actually put in a twist.
Hm. There are also several episodes of "The Grim Adventures
of Billy and Mandy" that parody various SF works. Most memorable
was the episode parodying the Dune series, yielding the line
"The polar opposite of cinnamon is frogs". Which turned out
not to be the case, but it's still a nifty line.
The smattering of Nigel Planter at the Toadblatt School episodes
were also quite nice. Which managed to simultaneously parody
Harry Potter and Animal House.
"Gom Jabbar!"
"It burrrrrrs!"
"Arr, that'll cost'er some points."
--- jhe gom jabbar round of the beauty pageant
in the "My Fair Mandy" episode
Lawrence Watt-Evans
wrote:
>On Dec 18, 11:10�am, Lawrence Watt-Evans <l...@sff.net> wrote:
>> On Sat, 18 Dec 2010 05:54:47 -0500, Jack Bohn <jackb...@bright.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Were "Demon with a
>> >Glass Hand" and "Soldier" published as prose before they were scripts?
>>
>> No.
>>
>James Camerons Avatar was obviously influenced by ERB's Barsoom.
>Dejah Thoris, Thuvia and John Carter of Mars.
>Large animals with six legs and rows of teeth, naked blue instead of
>naked red
And Burroughs' work is out of copyright, so that's fine.
>and Aliens was his take on Starship Troopers.
Naaah. Soldiers fighting weird aliens goes WAY back.
>If you don't own the rights of it, take the bit you like, mix them a
>bit and make something new
>or different.
>and that happens all the time
>Green Lantern Corps took a lot from Lensman
>Supermans Fortress of Solitude was originally owned by Doc Savage
Doc's Fortress of Solitude was in upstate New York, rather than "the
Arctic." Same concept, not the same place.
>George Lucas borrowed lots of sources for Star Wars.
Many of them Japanese.
--
My webpage is at http://www.watt-evans.com
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
> In article<iej0a6$q55$2...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)<sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>> On 12/18/10 1:31 PM, James Nicoll wrote:
>>> In article<c7716381-e95f-4449...@p38g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>,
>>> tphile<tph...@cableone.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Green Lantern Corps took a lot from Lensman
>>>
>>> Although I seem to recall Broome and Schwartz claimed the similarities
>>> were not due to borrowing.
>>
>> Though later GL series explicitly bowed in his direction with the two
>> Green Lanterns Arisia and Eddore (the latter being a shapeless blob,
>> just like the original Eddorians).
>>
> And the other one being the 13-year-old Hal Jordan boned, in
> which I assume was an attempt to make Superman's cosplay make-out
> session with Kal El's cousin Kara seem acceptable by comparison.
I'm SURE there was an excuse given. Like "She's 13 but actually for her
species she's an adult" or "she just looks and acts 13 and is
emotionally their equivalent of a late junior high student, but she's
actually 47 years old".
Or maybe the excuse was just that she was a hot alien elf.
Lawrence Watt-Evans
wrote:
>On Sat, 18 Dec 2010 12:10:59 -0500, Lawrence Watt-Evans
><l...@sff.net> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 18 Dec 2010 05:54:47 -0500, Jack Bohn <jack...@bright.net>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>Were "Demon with a
>>>Glass Hand" and "Soldier" published as prose before they were scripts?
>>
>>No.
>
>ISTR reading an Ellison short story quite similar to the "Soldier"
>episode in one of his early collections, and ISFDB shows one
>published in 1957.
Really? Huh.
Okay, but "Demon with a Glass Hand" I'm pretty sure of.
Kurt Busiek
<sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> said:
The excuse was, "Her race is capable of maturing by an effort of will,
so one moment she looks 13 and the next she looks like a 24-year-old
centerfold model, because she's got major hots for Hal; it will take
him a bit to get used to it."
Talk about blossoming.
What it read like is, "The writer likes this relationship, and it could
lead to romance, but she's too young, so ABRA KA DEUS EX MACHINA, she's
not any more."
kdb
--
Visit http://www.busiek.com -- for all your Busiek needs!
tphile
> >bit and make something new
> >or different.
> >and that happens all the time
> >Green Lantern Corps took a lot from Lensman
> >Supermans Fortress of Solitude was originally owned by Doc Savage
>
> Doc's Fortress of Solitude was in upstate New York, rather than "the
> Arctic." Same concept, not the same place.
>
you have your Doc Savage locations mixed up
His home and headquarters was the 86th floor of the Empire State
Building
The College where he sent his villians to be "rehabilitated" was
upstate New York
The Fortress of Solitude is a large Blue Glasslike Dome in the Arctic
circle where he goes
privately to do intense research and where he stores the most
deadliest inventions.
John Sunlight discovered and burgled it.
afterwards it was camoflauged to resemble the local terrain
Hidalgo Trading Company is a warehouse on the Hudson Bay where he
keeps his transportation.
and so on
Lawrence Watt-Evans
wrote:
>On Dec 18, 3:30 pm, Lawrence Watt-Evans <l...@sff.net> wrote:
> > >bit and make something new
>> >or different.
>> >and that happens all the time
>> >Green Lantern Corps took a lot from Lensman
>> >Supermans Fortress of Solitude was originally owned by Doc Savage
>>
>> Doc's Fortress of Solitude was in upstate New York, rather than "the
>> Arctic." Same concept, not the same place.
>
>you have your Doc Savage locations mixed up
>
>His home and headquarters was the 86th floor of the Empire State
>Building
>
>The College where he sent his villians to be "rehabilitated" was
>upstate New York
>
>The Fortress of Solitude is a large Blue Glasslike Dome in the Arctic
>circle where he goes
>privately to do intense research and where he stores the most
>deadliest inventions.
Ack! You're right, I was thinking of the College.
>John Sunlight discovered and burgled it.
>afterwards it was camoflauged to resemble the local terrain
>
>Hidalgo Trading Company is a warehouse on the Hudson Bay where he
>keeps his transportation.
>
>and so on
--
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
I was pretty sure of it; that's why they'd do such an overblown boxing
homage, to cash in on a current craze.
>
> Which is not to say you couldn't decide to do a Rocky homage
> based off of the first two movies, but the third is where things
> started to get ridiculously awesome. And then Rocky IV defeated
> the entire Soviet Union single-handedly, which even I thought
> was excessive.
No, just beat a fighter who was shown to be a super-steroid engineered
monster through sheer American grit and unyielding will. (It did have
some marvelous cheese lines in it, though, like the exchange in the
opposed corners after Rocky actually had started to make some headway:
"He's BLEEDIN', Rocky! He's human!" (in Rocky's corner, of course)
"He is not a man. He is like a piece of iron." From Ivan Drago, the
other fighter.
>
>> I remember, however, being very annoyed at The Champion for being an
>> inconsistent, or at the least conveniently arbitrary, bastard,
>> disqualifying at least two people for quickly-invented reasons (The Hulk
>> because "I will not sully my hands with a mindless brute" -- Hulk not
>> mindless, Hulk just not waste time thinking like Puny Banner!,
>
> This one I'll definitely grant you. Total cop out. Had the Hulk
> ever been knocked out at that point? The Champion could
> easily have won a boxing match against any version of the
> Hulk on points, in my opinion, but they had to have him
> either KO his opponents or hurt them so bad the ref had
> to stop the fight for the Thing's surviving three whole rounds
> to be as awesome as they wanted. And they most likely
> didn't want to show that happening to the Hulk. They should
> have figured out a way to keep him out of it altogether. He
> was in another dimension at the time, or something.
Exactly. The problem was that when it came to physically throwing down,
by that point The Hulk had pretty much reached his established status as
The Man. They *COULDN'T* have The Champion KO him, and in fact they
couldn't even reasonably have The Champion last 15 rounds with Hulk. He
couldn't FIGHT the Hulk or either Hulk would win or they'd seriously
dilute the Hulk's awesome, which was not acceptable either. (And whoever
it was HAD to lose, because this was The Thing's title, and he was the
one who had to win somehow, despite the odds.
To me, his "I will not sully my hands" line, after Hulk-Banner's last
line about pulverizing him as easily as he shredded the gloves (gloves
provided BY THE CHAMPION!), read much more as "HOLY CRAP, I'M GONNA DIE!
I need a fast excuse to teleport him away NOW!"
>
>> and Thor,
>> who the Champion kicked out of the ring for using his Hammer -- even
>> though Thor has the damn thing on him ALL THE TIME (I don't recall if he
>> HAD to have it with him; for a long time Thor could not be separated
>> from the Hammer for more than 60 seconds, which would make 3-minute
>> rounds... problematic.)
>
> I vaguely recall that that's why they let him keep the hammer, yeah.
> And I'm pretty sure he got disqualified for throwing it at the
> Champion,
> which I would definitely rule a no-no in a boxing match. This isn't
> wrestling, with an entire arsenal of deadly weapons stored underneath
> the ring.
I dunno, I think Thor HIT him with the Hammer in his hand. Which, given
that they hadn't really talked much about the RULES, and they HAD let
him keep the Hammer, was pretty much a cheesy way out -- especially
since THE CHAMPION HAD CHOSEN THE CONTESTANTS. He could've NOT chosen
those who generally have/rely on weapons.
I would've liked to see him against that era's version of The
Juggernaut. I think that might have gone ... badly for him.
>
> I only vaguely recall how the other combatants lost. Wonder Man
> started tearing up the ring to use the debris as a weapon, so he
> was disqualified.
I think you're right, and that's something of a shame because in
actuality Wonder Man wasn't human, was basically an energy being who
never has to get tired or run out of steam; he could've won by just
keeping up with The Champion until the Champion ran out of steam!
> Sasquatch was knocked out, I think. Colossus
> absorbed a huge amount of punishment before the ref stopped
> the fight.
Yep, sounds right. I had a copy of this one, but like most of my comic
collection it was destroyed in the flood some years ago.
I think the Sub-Mariner was disqualified for refusing to
> participate.
>
>>> That was back in the early 80's. Flash-forward to the mid 90's
>>> and the cartoon Dexter's Laboratory, which had a backup feature
>>> called Dial M For Monkey, about a mild-mannered lab monkey
>>> who was secretly a superhero. A superpowered alien named
>>> Rasslor (voiced awesomely by Macho Man Randy Savage)
>>> comes to town and forces all the super-types into single
>>> combat. Monkey, of course, is the only one who truly challenges
>>> him.
>>
>>> I see absolutely no way it was an independent creation,
>>
>> No, that's parody, basically, as the whole Dexter's Lab/Justice Friends
>> universe is a parody of a lot of things. And parody is not ripoff but
>> explicitly protected fair use. That's why, for instance, Galaxy Quest
>> could be such an obvious clone of Star Trek.
>
> If Galaxy Quest had used the unmodified plot of a specific
> episode, complete with verbatim or put-near verbatim dialogue,
> it would be different.
It would, if it were also as serious.
> I'm not sure if I'd say the Dexter episode
> was actual plagiarism as opposed to parody, but I think it came
> a heckuva lot closer to the line than Galaxy Quest did.
I don't think so. GQuest was taking itself (internally) much more
seriously than the Dexter episode -- by its nature, Dexter's Lab IS
comedy/parody. All of the characters were clear parody, and have been
for years. Re-doing classic stories with parody characters is a pretty
old story.
Galaxy Quest was telling an interesting "What-If" story, played for
some gentle comedy and ribbing, but specifically running on the entirety
of the Star Trek history as background; they had to make more changes to
really keep it acceptable (and besides, you couldn't have gotten all the
original Trek characters to play the parts; especially since there were
both Old Trek and New Trek references).
I see the two as roughly equal, just being on the parody side of the
line for different reasons.
>
> And there's another animated example of ripping off that comes
> to mind. The Incredibles. Not plot-wise, but characters. A super
> team that's composed of a strongman, a stretchy person,
> someone who becomes invisible and creates force fields, and
> a small child that might just be more powerful than all of them
> put together? Dash is the only member of the core four that
> doesn't map directly onto the Fantastic Four. Vi having both
> invisibility AND force fields can't possibly be coincidence
> because those two just don't go together unless you're copying
> Sue Richards.
Again, the whole thing was a parody, and that's just one of the
parodies. Though they substituted a speedster for the firebug.
It was also a James Bond parody with a huge number of direct steals
there, too.
>
> I don't think Marvel should have sued or anything, and I don't
> think they would or should have won if they had, but I'm kinda
> surprised they didn't. Seems like too smart a decision for them.
Marvel knows parody -- none better, they often parody themselves. They
aren't idiots, and neither are their lawyers. They know what "fair use"
allows, and The Incredibles was very far on that side of the line. If it
revived interest in superheroes (and in some ways I think it did), they
stood to gain from it.
tphile
> On 2010-12-18 13:31:49 -0800, "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)"
> >> Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)<seaw...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
> >>> On 12/18/10 1:31 PM, James Nicoll wrote:
>
> - Show quoted text -
I thought her instant aging was caused by her ring with a subconscious
will or
desire to look older to Hal.
If anything her being a green lantern was proof enough of her maturity
and adulthood
tphile
Kurt Busiek
> I thought her instant aging was caused by her ring with a subconscious
> will or desire to look older to Hal.
I don't think there was anything subconscious about it.
But I think it might have been the ring _and_ her race. I'm not sure, offhand.
tphile
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
well its a good thing The Champion is Marvel cause DC would have
whipped his butt.
Karate Kid would have not even broken a sweat.
Bouncing Boy would have him on the ropes.
The Champion could not even take out any member of the JLA either.
He'd have better luck with The Archies, maybe
tphile
Christian Weisgerber
> Between scrith, General Products hulls, and stasis fields, the Pak and
> Puppeteers already have THREE completely indestructible defenses.
GP hulls are not indestructible as Beowulf Shaeffer and Elephant
learn the hard way in "Flatlander".
> The Puppeteers are able to accelerate entire planets up to a
> decent fraction of lightspeed.
After they bought the reactionless drive from the Outsiders. They
are still paying the installments...
Nobody in Known Space can hold a candle to the Outsiders. Did we
ever learn if they were already around at the time of the Slavers?
tphile
>
> - Show quoted text -
That's how I remember it, but my memory is not perfect
however it is backup in her wikipedia entry
After being stationed on Earth with Jordan, she subconsciously uses
her power ring to age herself so that she and Jordan can be together.
Though Hal Jordan ultimately returns Arisia's affections, it is some
time before he comes to terms with her as an adult.
although I am not thrilled how they keep retconning everything over
and over again
tphile
Robert Carnegie
> And there's another animated example of ripping off that comes
> to mind. The Incredibles. Not plot-wise, but characters. A super
> team that's composed of a strongman, a stretchy person,
> someone who becomes invisible and creates force fields, and
> a small child that might just be more powerful than all of them
> put together? Dash is the only member of the core four that
> doesn't map directly onto the Fantastic Four. Vi having both
> invisibility AND force fields can't possibly be coincidence
> because those two just don't go together unless you're copying
> Sue Richards.
I'm not sure what the logic is of Sue having invisible force fields on
top of being invisible, and making other things invisible, and,
sometimes, making invisible things visible. (Yes.) As far as I
recall from whichever early issue it was, that I think I saw in the
"Essential" collection, her force field first appeared when she was
the last of the team standing and the bad guy was about to kill her.
Or something. In other words, they wrote into a corner... and it is
said that these stories arose as a brief plot outline, some say
sometimes almost nonexistent, then the artwork drawn, then dialogue
and narration pasted on to try to make sense of it.
Either that, or a story starts with, "By the way, Sue, I think you
would be able to generate an invisible forcefield", that becomes the
one way to defeat that month's enemy - the creators having decided
that it's difficult to think of things for an Invisible Girl to do in
stories with just that power. (Teaching her kung fu or advanced
mechanical sabotage is not early-sixties style.)
And anyway, Plastic Man was stretchy first. Elongated Man, about
contemporary with Reed Richards. H. G. Wells invented an Invisible
Man, any hero team needs at least one slugger (I think "brick" is the
term, or in a "Mighty Avengers" selection session a "Thor" - he wasn't
available), although preferably not a hideously ugly one, and there
had been plenty, and there were two Human Torches in the 1940s - oh,
we don't need to apologise for that. And I dare say tif they did
consider it, hey didn't want to be responible for a new generation of
little arsonists.
And they need powers that work in a funny cartoon.
Swiping one issue of _The Thing_, however, isn't classy. Not like
swiping Superman's origin, which you can do in any medium. (I think A
Full Frontal Nerdity comic proposed that everyone [in the country? in
the world? in real life, that is] knows Spider-Man's origin as hero,
and I disagree, but Superman's origin is very widely known. Which
almost puts it in the public domain, and certainly makes you look so
bad for only xeroxing it that you typically wouldn't dare. (Marvel
Boy... hmm.)
Robert Carnegie
Brian M. Scott wrote:
> On Fri, 17 Dec 2010 13:24:54 -0700, Gutless Umbrella
> Carrying Sissy <taus...@gmail.com> wrote in
> <news:Xns9E5188777C0...@69.16.186.7> in
> rec.arts.sf.written:
>
> > Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote in
> > news:8n21me...@mid.individual.net:
>
> >> "John F. Eldredge" <jo...@jfeldredge.com> wrote:
>
> >>> Incidentally, Andre Norton herself goofed when she named
> >>> the Navajo protagonist in _Beast Master_ Hosteen Storm.
> >>> From what I have subsequently learned from other
> >>> reading, "Hosteen" is not a proper name in the Navajo
> >>> language; instead, it is a term of respect used before
> >>> a name when talking to a man older than oneself. It is
> >>> as if she had given the character the first name
> >>> "Mister", or "Elder".
>
> >> I am taking a course from Maria Elder at the moment.
>
> > But not Elder Maria.
>
> I once had a student whose name was <Sir Christian>.
I... suppose it was one of various radio comedy sketch shows from the
BBC archives, repeated on digital-access BBC Radio 7, that recently
introduced to my mind a one-off character named Surname Christian. A
leader of men and/or women, he was informal with subordinates, telling
them just to call him Sur.
tphile
The Fantastic Four powers was based on the four elements
Fire - The Human Torch
Earth - The Thing
Water - Mr Fantastic The way his body stretched and could flow
resembling water
Air - Sue Storm Air is invisible and the force fields is based on
invisible air pressure
and how a wind that you can't see but can feel it push against you
Now Bill Willinghams Elementals were totally based on the four
elements
as for Dash Parr he is off in a flash, burning rubber, scorching the
earth beneath his feet
he is fire in a metaphorical sense anyway
tphile
Kurt Busiek
The FF are based on the four elements, but I don't think the Incredibles are.
Brad Bird has said that their powers comes from their character -- the
father who is the solid support of the family, the mother pulled in all
directions at once, the self-conscious and shy teenager and the
hyperactive kid.
I'd assume someone suggested the force field, and that was inspired by
the FF (just as I figure the Underminer must be), but the idea that the
basic powers come from familial archetypes works for me.
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Yes, now that you remind me, I remember that bit.
Steve Coltrin
na...@mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber) writes:
> Mike Ash <mi...@mikeash.com> wrote:
>
>> Between scrith, General Products hulls, and stasis fields, the Pak and
>> Puppeteers already have THREE completely indestructible defenses.
>
> GP hulls are not indestructible as Beowulf Shaeffer and Elephant
> learn the hard way in "Flatlander".
There's also ways to do violence to scrith and stasis fields.
> Nobody in Known Space can hold a candle to the Outsiders. Did we
> ever learn if they were already around at the time of the Slavers?
If they were, that would pretty much prove they are immune to
telepathic control.
--
Steve Coltrin spco...@omcl.org Google Groups killfiled here
"A group known as the League of Human Dignity helped arrange for Deuel
to be driven to a local livestock scale, where he could be weighed."
- Associated Press
David Johnston
> begin fnord
>
> na...@mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber) writes:
>
> >> Between scrith, General Products hulls, and stasis fields, the Pak and
> >> Puppeteers already have THREE completely indestructible defenses.
>
> > GP hulls are not indestructible as Beowulf Shaeffer and Elephant
> > learn the hard way in "Flatlander".
>
> There's also ways to do violence to scrith and stasis fields.
>
> > Nobody in Known Space can hold a candle to the Outsiders. Did we
> > ever learn if they were already around at the time of the Slavers?
>
> If they were, that would pretty much prove they are immune to
> telepathic control.
It doesn't seem unlikely. All the other species are biologically
related so far as is known but the Outsiders don't seem to be.
DouhetSukd
> DouhetSukd <douhets...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Ditto, the Twilight Zone/Outer Limits? which apparently had some prize
> > ripoffs from SF writers.
>
> You better check the writing credits. Many of those may be official
> adaptations.
>
Well in the case of TZ and Phillip Jose Farmer (whom I later
identified as the author), the collection of short stories 'Acheron'
comes includes a lengthy passage in the preface bitching about its TZ
ripoff. Not saying the rest of TZ does the same to other works, but
PJF clearly views that TV was playing fast and loose in his case.
But you're right of course, as exemplified by the BeastMaster & Andre
Norton.
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
OTOH, suppose they are not immune, but know enough to stay out of
range of any Slavers?
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Steve Coltrin
They could _not_ have been out of range of the Slavers' war-ending
weapon.
Mike Ash
Steve Coltrin <spco...@omcl.org> wrote:
> begin fnord
> na...@mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber) writes:
>
> > Mike Ash <mi...@mikeash.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Between scrith, General Products hulls, and stasis fields, the Pak and
> >> Puppeteers already have THREE completely indestructible defenses.
> >
> > GP hulls are not indestructible as Beowulf Shaeffer and Elephant
> > learn the hard way in "Flatlander".
>
> There's also ways to do violence to scrith and stasis fields.
Yep, I should have said "nigh-indestructible".
Antimatter can do for both scrith and GP hulls, and Trek has enough of
that floating about. IIRC the only thing that can deactivate a stasis
field is another stasis field, though, so those poor Borg are just so
utterly doomed.
--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon
Mike Ash
Steve Coltrin <spco...@omcl.org> wrote:
> begin fnord
> t...@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) writes:
>
> > In article
> > <3b23cbca-d6aa-453d...@35g2000prt.googlegroups.com>,
> > David Johnston <davidjo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>On Dec 18, 5:59 pm, Steve Coltrin <spcol...@omcl.org> wrote:
> >>> begin fnord
> >>>
> >>> na...@mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber) writes:
> >>> There's also ways to do violence to scrith and stasis fields.
> >>>
> >>> > Nobody in Known Space can hold a candle to the Outsiders. Did we
> >>> > ever learn if they were already around at the time of the Slavers?
> >>>
> >>> If they were, that would pretty much prove they are immune to
> >>> telepathic control.
> >>
> >>It doesn't seem unlikely. All the other species are biologically
> >>related so far as is known but the Outsiders don't seem to be.
> >
> > OTOH, suppose they are not immune, but know enough to stay out of
> > range of any Slavers?
>
> They could _not_ have been out of range of the Slavers' war-ending
> weapon.
<conspiracy>
Maybe they SOLD the war-ending weapon to the Slavers, with the idea of
getting some more friendly forms of intelligent life going, and of
course with the thing specifically tuned to exclude Outsiders from its
reach.
</conspiracy>
Steve Coltrin
Mike Ash <mi...@mikeash.com> writes:
> In article <m27hf67...@kelutral.omcl.org>,
> Steve Coltrin <spco...@omcl.org> wrote:
>
>> [The Outsiders] could _not_ have been out of range of the Slavers'
>> war-ending weapon.
>
> <conspiracy>
>
> Maybe they SOLD the war-ending weapon to the Slavers, with the idea of
> getting some more friendly forms of intelligent life going, and of
> course with the thing specifically tuned to exclude Outsiders from its
> reach.
>
> </conspiracy>
And given the fact that the Slavers were dumb as stumps, you have to
suspect someone else gave it to them...
Jack Bohn
> Marvel knows parody -- none better, they often parody themselves. They
>aren't idiots, and neither are their lawyers. They know what "fair use"
>allows, and The Incredibles was very far on that side of the line. If it
>revived interest in superheroes (and in some ways I think it did), they
>stood to gain from it.
When the Fantastic 4 movie came out I heard a friend suggest it would
be taken by the general public as a spin on The Incredibles. And that
that would be a good thing!
--
-Jack
Jack Bohn
>On Sat, 18 Dec 2010 12:23:01 -0600, Bill Snyder <bsn...@airmail.net>
>wrote:
>
>>ISTR reading an Ellison short story quite similar to the "Soldier"
>>episode in one of his early collections, and ISFDB shows one
>>published in 1957.
>
>Really? Huh.
>
>Okay, but "Demon with a Glass Hand" I'm pretty sure of.
Oh, well. DC Comics put out some graphic adaptations of sf stories, I
have Silverberg's "Nightwings" and Pohl's "The Merchants of Venus". I
guess their "Demon with a Glass Hand" will have to be categorized
under TV adaptations.
--
-Jack
Drak Bibliophile
news:ltmrg6de6mbpruvs2...@4ax.com...
For that matter, both DC and Marvel had 'versions' of the other company's
characters in their comics.
Years ago I read a Justice League comic where four members of the League
were up against four superheroes that were obviously based on Avenger
characters. Much later three of the Avenger clones show up on the Justice
League's Earth.
Of course, Marvel had the Squadron Sinister (later Squadron Supreme) that
were clones of Justice League characters.
In one of the Superman comics, there were four characters who were somewhat
similar to the Fantastic 4 but three of them died of radiation sickness in
spite of their new super powers. The survivor blamed Superman for their
deaths (instead of blaming himself). He later became the evil Cyborg
Superman.
After the X-Men faced the Imperial Guard (obviously based on DC's League of
Superheroes), the League comics had cameos of X-Men characters (all were
civilians not superheroes).
I'm sure I missed some.
--
*
Paul Howard (Alias Drak Bibliophile)
*
Sometimes The Dragon Wins!
*
tphile
wrote:
> "Jack Bohn" <jackb...@bright.net> wrote in message
Swamp Thing = Giant Size Man-Thing
Doomsday = Incredible Hulk
Darkseid = Thanos
Birds of Prey = Heroes for Hire with Misty Knight doing the Oracle
bit
Deathstroke The Terminator = Taskmaster
Lobo = Wolverine
Aquaman = Namor
Marcus L. Rowland
<spco...@omcl.org> writes
>begin fnord
>Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> writes:
>
>> "John F. Eldredge" <jo...@jfeldredge.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Incidentally, Andre Norton herself goofed when she named the Navajo
>>>protagonist in _Beast Master_ Hosteen Storm. From what I have
>>>subsequently learned from other reading, "Hosteen" is not a proper name
>>>in the Navajo language; instead, it is a term of respect used before a
>>>name when talking to a man older than oneself. It is as if she had given
>>>the character the first name "Mister", or "Elder".
>>
>> I am taking a course from Maria Elder at the moment.
>
>
There's a long history of titles, job descriptions etc. becoming names -
for example, I sold my last motorbike to an Indian guy with the surname
"Engineer"
--
Marcus L. Rowland www.forgottenfutures.com
www.forgottenfutures.org
www.forgottenfutures.co.uk
Forgotten Futures - The Scientific Romance Role Playing Game
Diana: Warrior Princess & Elvis: The Legendary Tours
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