Re: Starving people refuse to eat food aid
netcat
0cb53e...@l2g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>, rja.ca...@excite.com
says...
>
> Lawrence Watt-Evans wrote:
> > On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 17:50:48 +0200, netcat
> > <net...@devnull.eridani.eol.ee> wrote:
> >
> > >In article <e516089f-9ed3-42de-befd-
> > >7de8ce...@w19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>, treif...@gmail.com says...
> > >> On Nov 19, 7:17=3Fæ=3Fam, netcat <net...@devnull.eridani.eol.ee> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Not trying to be rude, but Estonia is not known for its native
> > >> cuisine.
> > >
> > >I believe that's why we have hundreds of restaurants serving something
> > >else, instead.
> >
> > I've never been to Estonia and know very little about it, but I seem
> > to recall being told, long ago, that prior to the Soviet annexation
> > Estonia was known for its fine dairy products. Was that my
> > imagination?
>
> According to Clive James, the Soviet Union considered East Berlin as a
> centre of clothes fashions, so it's probably relative to what you've
> got at home?
I think he said 'prior'. Did you miss it, by any chance?
rgds,
netcat
Robert Carnegie: Fnord: cc talk-origins@moderators.isc.org
Nope, but I don't think the Golden Age ran up to the founding of the
Soviet Union. Times were hard before then too.
cryptoguy
orig...@moderators.isc.org <rja.carne...@excite.com> wrote:
> netcat wrote:
> > In article <ab5dd727-d2de-493c-8efe-
> > says...
>
> > > Lawrence Watt-Evans wrote:
> > > > On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 17:50:48 +0200, netcat
> > > > <net...@devnull.eridani.eol.ee> wrote:
>
> > > > >In article <e516089f-9ed3-42de-befd-
> > > > >> On Nov 19, 7:17=3Fæ=3Fam, netcat <net...@devnull.eridani.eol.ee> wrote:
>
> > > > >> Not trying to be rude, but Estonia is not known for its native
> > > > >> cuisine.
>
> > > > >I believe that's why we have hundreds of restaurants serving something
> > > > >else, instead.
>
> > > > I've never been to Estonia and know very little about it, but I seem
> > > > to recall being told, long ago, that prior to the Soviet annexation
> > > > Estonia was known for its fine dairy products. Was that my
> > > > imagination?
>
> > > According to Clive James, the Soviet Union considered East Berlin as a
> > > centre of clothes fashions, so it's probably relative to what you've
> > > got at home?
>
> > I think he said 'prior'. Did you miss it, by any chance?
>
> Nope, but I don't think the Golden Age ran up to the founding of the
> Soviet Union. Times were hard before then too.
Yes and no. Between WW! and WW2 Estonia became, for the first time in
centuries, an independent nation. For Estonia, the pre-WW2 period
*was* a Golden Age.
pt
Hatunen
Of course, about half of that 'Golden Age" was spent enduring the
Great Depression.
I've been checking and I'm having a hard time finding any period
when Estonia was independent prior to 1918.
--
************* DAVE HATUNEN (hat...@cox.net) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
netcat
says...
> On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 21:36:55 -0800 (PST), cryptoguy
> <treif...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Nov 20, 9:18 pm, Robert Carnegie: Fnord: cc talk-
> >orig...@moderators.isc.org <rja.carne...@excite.com> wrote:
>
> >> Nope, but I don't think the Golden Age ran up to the founding of the
> >> Soviet Union. Times were hard before then too.
> >
> >Yes and no. Between WW! and WW2 Estonia became, for the first time in
> >centuries, an independent nation. For Estonia, the pre-WW2 period
> >*was* a Golden Age.
>
> Of course, about half of that 'Golden Age" was spent enduring the
> Great Depression.
We got over it a bit sooner than some other countries did. So our Golden
Age had two parts: the second part of 1920s and the second part of
1930s.
> I've been checking and I'm having a hard time finding any period
> when Estonia was independent prior to 1918.
You have to look farther, then.
rgds,
netcat
Hatunen
Not worth the bother.
Robert A. Woodward
netcat <net...@devnull.eridani.eol.ee> wrote:
> In article <pdpgg55gp0rtqbeac...@4ax.com>, hat...@cox.net
> says...
> > On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 21:36:55 -0800 (PST), cryptoguy
> > <treif...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > >On Nov 20, 9:18�pm, Robert Carnegie: Fnord: cc talk-
> > >orig...@moderators.isc.or-g <rja.carne...@excite.com> wrote:
> >
> > >> Nope, but I don't think the Golden Age ran up to the founding of the
> > >> Soviet Union. �Times were hard before then too.
> > >
> > >Yes and no. Between WW! and WW2 Estonia became, for the first time in
> > >centuries, an independent nation. For Estonia, the pre-WW2 period
> > >*was* a Golden Age.
> >
<SNIP>
>
> > I've been checking and I'm having a hard time finding any period
> > when Estonia was independent prior to 1918.
>
> You have to look farther, then.
That would be before various German crusading orders brought German
civilization to the Baltics? It might had been a nation that wasn't
ruled by foreigners, but I suspect that the various chieftains
didn't recognize even a first amongst equals.
--
Robert Woodward <robe...@drizzle.com>
<http://www.drizzle.com/~robertaw>
netcat
robe...@drizzle.com says...
> In article <MPG.2574ba6fa...@news.octanews.com>,
> netcat <net...@devnull.eridani.eol.ee> wrote:
>
> > In article <pdpgg55gp0rtqbeac...@4ax.com>, hat...@cox.net
> > says...
> > > On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 21:36:55 -0800 (PST), cryptoguy
> > > <treif...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > >On Nov 20, 9:18 pm, Robert Carnegie: Fnord: cc talk-
> > > >orig...@moderators.isc.or-g <rja.carne...@excite.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > >> Nope, but I don't think the Golden Age ran up to the founding of the
> > > >> Soviet Union. Times were hard before then too.
> > > >
> > > >Yes and no. Between WW! and WW2 Estonia became, for the first time in
> > > >centuries, an independent nation. For Estonia, the pre-WW2 period
> > > >*was* a Golden Age.
> > >
> <SNIP>
> >
> > > I've been checking and I'm having a hard time finding any period
> > > when Estonia was independent prior to 1918.
> >
> > You have to look farther, then.
>
> That would be before various German crusading orders brought German
> civilization to the Baltics?
You mean, before they enslaved everybody they didn't kill outright?
> It might had been a nation that wasn't
> ruled by foreigners,
> but I suspect that the various chieftains
> didn't recognize even a first amongst equals.
Regardless, at the time of "northern crusades" the land _was_ divided
into well-defined administrative units, which were each governed by
their elders, respectively. And that seemed to work well enough despite
the lack of centralization until we were overrun by superior forces
using religious fanaticism as an excuse to do a little conquering.
rgds,
netcat
Hatunen
<net...@devnull.eridani.eol.ee> wrote:
That strikes me a bit like saying Germany was an independent
nation before 1871. Or Italy before the Risorgimento.
Keith F. Lynch
> Yes and no. Between WW! and WW2 Estonia became, for the first time
> in centuries, an independent nation. For Estonia, the pre-WW2
> period *was* a Golden Age.
Independence is necessary and sufficient for a golden age?
Virginia, where I live, declared independence in 1861. If the US
hadn't succeeded in forcing it back into the US, do you think Virginia
would have had a golden age? And if Fairfax County had then seceeded
from Virginia, would it have experienced an even more golden age? Are
European countries making a big mistake joining the European Union
rather than remaining totally independent?
--
Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.
Robert A. Woodward
netcat <net...@devnull.eridani.eol.ee> wrote:
> In article <robertaw-4A40DF...@individual.net>,
> robe...@drizzle.com says...
> > In article <MPG.2574ba6fa...@news.octanews.com>,
> > netcat <net...@devnull.eridani.eol.ee> wrote:
> >
> > > In article <pdpgg55gp0rtqbeac...@4ax.com>, hat...@cox.net
> > > says...
> > > > On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 21:36:55 -0800 (PST), cryptoguy
> > > > <treif...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >On Nov 20, 9:18�pm, Robert Carnegie: Fnord: cc talk-
> > > > >orig...@moderators.isc.or-g <rja.carne...@excite.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >> Nope, but I don't think the Golden Age ran up to the founding of the
> > > > >> Soviet Union. �Times were hard before then too.
> > > > >
> > > > >Yes and no. Between WW! and WW2 Estonia became, for the first time in
> > > > >centuries, an independent nation. For Estonia, the pre-WW2 period
> > > > >*was* a Golden Age.
> > > >
> > <SNIP>
> > >
> > > > I've been checking and I'm having a hard time finding any period
> > > > when Estonia was independent prior to 1918.
> > >
> > > You have to look farther, then.
> >
> > That would be before various German crusading orders brought German
> > civilization to the Baltics?
>
> You mean, before they enslaved everybody they didn't kill outright?
>
You are far from the only person to use that interpretation.
cryptoguy
> cryptoguy <treifam...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Yes and no. Between WW! and WW2 Estonia became, for the first time
> > in centuries, an independent nation. For Estonia, the pre-WW2
> > period *was* a Golden Age.
>
> Independence is necessary and sufficient for a golden age?
Of course not. But Estonia, which remained ethnically and culturally
its own nation (for example, it's Lutheran, and westwards-facing, not
Orthodox/Slavic), was for the first time able to express its own
cultural identity, which it did with gusto. Despite the rest of the
world being in the Depression for part of the period, the economic
states of the Baltic States improved, since they were now pursuing
their own economic self-interest, rather than being exploited as
colonies of Russia.
The conditions were such that, for Estonia, it *was* a Golden Age.
> Virginia, where I live, declared independence in 1861. If the US
> hadn't succeeded in forcing it back into the US, do you think Virginia
> would have had a golden age? And if Fairfax County had then seceeded
> from Virginia, would it have experienced an even more golden age? Are
> European countries making a big mistake joining the European Union
> rather than remaining totally independent?
False analogy. Neither the EU countries, nor Virginia are/were being
occupied by foreign powers, bent on extracting wealth and sending it
home.
pt
Dorothy J Heydt
Well, there was a time when Virginia (along with the rest of the
English colonies in America) *was* being treated just like that.
That's one of the things we had a revolution about.
Note, that was not in 1861, when the Southern states seceded from
the Union in an attempt to keep the institution of slavery, on
which their economy depended. It was in 1776, after England had
spent the last century or so using the colonies as a source of
raw material and forbidding them to set up manufacturing of their
own. (But we did anyway, nyah.)
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at hotmail dot com
Should you wish to email me, you'd better use the hotmail edress.
Kithrup is getting too damn much spam, even with the sysop's filters.
Keith F. Lynch
I don't know about the EU, but Virginia was.