Great moments in chains of succession
Joseph Nebus
month with a 31-to-31 split between the contending major parties in the
Senate causing all work to halt except for arguing over who should be
the Official Senate President. To add to the spice, Governor David
Patterson has just attempted to name a lieutenant governor, who would
call every day to ask if he was dead and would also cast the tie-breaking
vote should anything ever be voted on. (Patterson had been lieutenant
governor, but moved up after the resignation last year of Elliot ``Who?
Elliot'' Spitzer.)
And to make it an even more delightful tangle, the New York
State Constitution doesn't have any provision for filling a vacancy in
the lieutenant governorship, although there is a state law allowing the
governor to fill elected offices when there is not otherwise a process
in place for filling it. There are already temporary restraining orders
restraining everything not temporarily nailed down.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/09/nyregion/09albany.html?_r=1&ref=us
It strikes me that the rich branch of science fiction that deals
with the fascinating complications of liberal democracy in action for
good political or quasi-political thrillers should have fun working out
the logical and practical arguments that chains of succession can offer,
particularly since nearly all chains are unsatisfying in one way or the
other. But 'should' is not 'do'; has anyone written the story where the
case of David Rice Atchison [1] is good for anything other than drawing
the pedantic into unstoppable paradoxes?
I'm aware that in Battlestar Galactica-2 the Presidency
devolves on the roughly 2038th person in the official line of
succession due to everyone else being dead.
[1] Whatever you're thinking about whether he was Sort Of The
Acting President Of The United States For One Day, it's not quite as
clear-cut as that, except that he didn't *act* like president for the
day. Except for those of you thinking you never heard of the name but
maybe that that railroad song in your head now and you're welcome for
that.
--
Joseph Nebus
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Greg Goss
> The state legislature in New York has been tangled up the past
>month with a 31-to-31 split between the contending major parties in the
>Senate causing all work to halt except for arguing over who should be
>the Official Senate President. To add to the spice, Governor David
>Patterson has just attempted to name a lieutenant governor, who would
>call every day to ask if he was dead and would also cast the tie-breaking
>vote should anything ever be voted on. (Patterson had been lieutenant
>governor, but moved up after the resignation last year of Elliot ``Who?
>Elliot'' Spitzer.)
>
> And to make it an even more delightful tangle, the New York
>State Constitution doesn't have any provision for filling a vacancy in
>the lieutenant governorship, although there is a state law allowing the
>governor to fill elected offices when there is not otherwise a process
>in place for filling it. There are already temporary restraining orders
>restraining everything not temporarily nailed down.
>
>http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/09/nyregion/09albany.html?_r=1&ref=us
Alaska also has a succession problem. Their third-in-line person has
said that he doesn't want to move up to LG when the LG becomes G
towards the end of this month. The only way to fill the LG position
is to recall the legislature, and nobody wants a collection of
legislators angry because their summer has been interrupted.
--
Tomorrow is today already.
Greg Goss, 1989-01-27
Greg Goss
> I'm aware that in Battlestar Galactica-2 the Presidency
>devolves on the roughly 2038th person in the official line of
>succession due to everyone else being dead.
That's even deeper than the plot line for "King Ralph".
How deeply does the official succession chain for the US run?
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Doesn't sound like much of a problem. LG is generally a pretty useless
position. If the guy who doesn't want it affirms that he'll take it
if a crisis arises, then there's not a problem leaving the office
empty a while. (Unless there's something an Alaska LG does that's
out of the LG norm).
John Birmingham's recent _Without Warning_ has a giant seccession crisis
for the US.
Ted
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Um, I meant "succession crisis", not "seccession crisis" -- that's my
South Carolina heritage showing..
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Paul Arthur <flower...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>On 2009-07-09, Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote:
>> nebusj-@-rpi-.edu (Joseph Nebus) wrote:
>>
>>> I'm aware that in Battlestar Galactica-2 the Presidency
>>>devolves on the roughly 2038th person in the official line of
>>>succession due to everyone else being dead.
>>
>> That's even deeper than the plot line for "King Ralph".
>
>Education, and I doubt Adar's Cabinet had 2000 members.
>
>> How deeply does the official succession chain for the US run?
>
Roslin, by no coincidence, was 43rd in the line of succession.
William George Ferguson
>nebusj-@-rpi-.edu (Joseph Nebus) wrote:
>
>> I'm aware that in Battlestar Galactica-2 the Presidency
>>devolves on the roughly 2038th person in the official line of
>>succession due to everyone else being dead.
>
>That's even deeper than the plot line for "King Ralph".
>
>How deeply does the official succession chain for the US run?
Not that deep, although spots could be backfilled to provide more people in
the succession if people aren't killed off too fast. We've never gone
beyond the Vice-President and are now unlikely to do so since the 25th
Amendment sets up back-filling the Veep office.
President
Vice-President (if Vice-President vacates, a new Veep can be appointed)
Speaker of the House of Representives (so Nancy Pelosi is two heartbeats
away)
President Pro Tempore of the Senate
Secretary of State (Hillary is 4 heartbeats away)
Secretary of Treasury
Secretary of Defense (Gates is the highest Republican currently in line)
Attorney General
Secretary of
Interior
Agriculture
Commerce
Labor
Health and Human Services
Housing and Urban Development
Transportation
Energy
Education
Veteran's Affairs
Homeland Security
The cabinet secretarys are traditionally in the order of the formation of
their office, which is why Homeland Security is last. As far as I know,
there is no move to add the two new cabinet level positions appointed by
Obama to the line of succession.
Article II Section 1 of the Constition explicitly gives Congress the right
to set Presidential succession after the Vice-President, and the first Act
of Congress doing so was the Presidential Succession Act of 1792. It has
been amended a lot since then, most recently in 2006 (adding Homeland
Security to the bottom).
--
I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.
(Bene Gesserit)
Greg Goss
>If the guy who doesn't want it affirms that he'll take it
>if a crisis arises, then there's not a problem leaving the office
>empty a while. (Unless there's something an Alaska LG does that's
>out of the LG norm).
That last sentence raises giggles. But my amusement would no longer
apply after the end of the month.
Arthur
> In article <slrnh5ca65.j76.floweryson...@shasta.marwnad.com>,
> Paul Arthur <floweryson...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >On 2009-07-09, Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote:
>
> >>> I'm aware that in Battlestar Galactica-2 the Presidency
> >>>devolves on the roughly 2038th person in the official line of
> >>>succession due to everyone else being dead.
>
> >> That's even deeper than the plot line for "King Ralph".
>
> >It's also a bit of an exaggeration. Roslin was the Secretary of
> >Education, and I doubt Adar's Cabinet had 2000 members.
>
> >> How deeply does the official succession chain for the US run?
>
> >18.
>
> Roslin, by no coincidence, was 43rd in the line of succession.
So the whole "Kind Hearts and Cornets" approach would be unwieldy then?
David Goldfarb
Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote:
>nebusj-@-rpi-.edu (Joseph Nebus) wrote:
>
>> I'm aware that in Battlestar Galactica-2 the Presidency
>>devolves on the roughly 2038th person in the official line of
>>succession due to everyone else being dead.
>
>That's even deeper than the plot line for "King Ralph".
>
>How deeply does the official succession chain for the US run?
Actually, Joseph Nebus was exaggerating...it was only something
like 34th. (I'm now watching the first season: the current
President was previously the Secretary of Education, which is
hardly getting down into even 3 digits worth of succession, let
alone 4.)
--
David Goldfarb |"My agent's negotiating for a half-hour cooking
gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu |program, you know..."
gold...@csua.berkeley.edu | "Just cooking?"
|"Cooking and anti-personnel weaponry. Tossing
|salads, tossing bodies -- it's all the same to me."
Allen Thomson
> 2038th person in the official line of succession due to everyone else being dead.
After 2038, all questions, or at least 32-bit ones, will be moot:
Allen Thomson
> How deeply does the official succession chain for the US run?
Another question that is amusing to research is where the line of
delegation in the US National Command Authorities goes.
Derek Lyons
>The cabinet secretarys are traditionally in the order of the formation of
>their office, which is why Homeland Security is last. As far as I know,
>there is no move to add the two new cabinet level positions appointed by
>Obama to the line of succession.
And note the secretaries missing from the list...
D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.
http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/
-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL
Robert Sneddon
<go...@gossg.org> writes
>nebusj-@-rpi-.edu (Joseph Nebus) wrote:
>
>> I'm aware that in Battlestar Galactica-2 the Presidency
>>devolves on the roughly 2038th person in the official line of
>>succession due to everyone else being dead.
>
>That's even deeper than the plot line for "King Ralph".
It was worse in the somewhat surreal Spike Milligan movie "The Bed
Sitting Room" where the Royal Succession in the UK is severely tested by
a nuclear war resulting in Ethel Shroake of 393A High Street,
Leytonstone, the late Queen's former charwoman ascending to the throne.
--
To reply, my gmail address is nojay1 Robert Sneddon
Derek Lyons
Somewhere on Wikipedia they have a list running out somewhere into the
hundreds of the line of [English] Royal sucession.
The 'Official' list only runs out to thirty or so IIRC.
Matthew Malthouse
wrote:
> Somewhere on Wikipedia they have a list running out somewhere into the
> hundreds of the line of [English] Royal sucession.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_of_succession_to_the_British_throne
Enumerates 1616, admits the list is incomplete and I can make no
judgment as to its accuracy either when written or today.
> The 'Official' list only runs out to thirty or so IIRC.
The Act of Settlement 1701 places the succession to the throne the
legal heirs of the Electress Sophia who are not and are not married to
Catholics..
http://www.statutelaw.gov.uk/content.aspx?activeTextDocId=1565208
So any "official" list is just skimming the top as it's possible to
calculate who those heirs are in the hundreds and thousands (see above
for the fools who have tried to do so). As of 2000 there were in
excess of 4,000 possibilities. Because of Queen Victoria's fecundity
a substantial part of European aristocracy would be in there somewhere
including all the other monarchs although many would be excluded for
religious reasons.
Matthew
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