Megastructures in Science Fiction
Ross Smith
MEGASTRUCTURES IN SCIENCE FICTION
---------------------------------
Compiled by Ross Smith
Last updated 8-Dec-95
[If anyone wants to put this up on a Web site, let me know and I'll send
you the HTML version.]
SPOILER WARNING: For obvious reasons, this list must necessarily contain
spoilers for many of the books described. You have been warned.
Introduction
------------
I've always been fascinated by the science fiction idea of the
"megastructure", a gigantic artificial structure that can serve as the
background for all kinds of interesting stories. ("Megastructure" is my own
word for the idea; David Gerrold called it "the Enormous Big Thing", and
somebody else called it "the Big Dumb Object".) I've assembled this list of
all the megastructure stories I could remember, with a brief description of
each. If you have any additions, corrections, or comments, mail them to the
address above, or post them to rec.arts.sf.written (in particular, I'd like
to get dates for all of the novels mentioned).
The best-known megastructure novel, of course, is Larry Niven's _Ringworld_
(1970). Niven also wrote an article, "Bigger than Worlds", which can be
found in his collection _A Hole in Space_ (1974); he describes many
different kinds of structure, and goes into interesting details such as how
to build a Ringworld. (You dismantle the planets, one at a time, and use
the material to make disc-shaped plates, orbiting the sun and linked by
cables, then move the inhabitants of the next planet to the plates while
their planet is being dismantled; eventually you join all the plates into a
ring. See also _The Player of Games_ by Iain M Banks.)
But the very first author to make use of megastructures (to the best of my
knowledge) was Olaf Stapledon, whose classic novel _Star Maker_ (1937)
describes many of the ideas (in this and other areas) that would later be
rediscovered by other writers and hailed as original (including the
star-girdling sphere that is usually attributed to Freeman Dyson). (I've
always said that H G Wells and Olaf Stapledon between them came up with at
least 95 percent of the good ideas in science fiction.)
My current best attempt at a definition of a megastructure is: "An
artificial structure (this is intended to include living creatures) which:
(1) Has either a length of at least 1000 kilometres or a surface area of at
least 10,000 square kilometres; (2) Requires materials or construction
techniques beyond the capability of 20th century technology; and (3) Is
either a single object, supported by its own strength, or a stable cluster
of objects in space."
Note that clause 2 is intended to exclude such things as solar sails (which
can be large but are theoretically within our reach now, so they don't
"feel" like SF megastructures to me), and clause 3 is intended to exclude
planet-covering cities such as Isaac Asimov's Trantor, which don't really
count as single structures.
The list of books is divided into two sections: first, books which are
primarily about megastructures, and dominated by one or more particular
structures; and second, books in which megastructures are mentioned, but
are not central to the story.
Thanks to everyone who helped me compile this list, especially Erik Max
Francis, Sinya B Schaeffer, and Carl Witty.
Classification of Megastructures
--------------------------------
This is based to some extent on the classification in Niven's article. The
types are arranged in approximate order of increasing size.
Hollow World: An asteroid (or something similar) hollowed out and set
rotating for artificial gravity, with landscaping on the inside. It may or
may not be fitted with some form of propulsion system as well. The idea is
an old one in SF, and it's probably impossible to find out who first
thought it up.
Orbital Tower: In its simplest form, a very strong cable lowered from a
synchronous satellite to the surface of the Earth (or another planet, of
course). Usually a second cable extends outwards, with an asteroid or
something similar on the end as a counterweight. There are many variations
on this theme. The first SF novel to use it was almost certainly Arthur C
Clarke's _The Fountains of Paradise_ (1979), but the idea goes back decades
in astronautical literature.
Artificial Planet: A planet-sized sphere, artificially constructed but
otherwise similar in size and shape to a natural planet such as Earth. It
may or may not be recognisable as artificial from the outside. An old SF
idea, probably first used by Olaf Stapledon in _Star Maker_ (1937).
Discworld: A flat disc, comparable in surface area to an Earthlike planet.
One side or both may be populated. The idea was thought up by Terry
Pratchett, probably inspired by the Alderson disc (see below), and as far
as I know his novel _Strata_ (1981) is the only appearance of the idea in
written SF (although one appears in the graphic novel _Starstruck_ (1984)
by Elaine Lee and Michael William Kaluta, and of course Terry has since
written a very successful series of fantasy novels based on a related
concept).
Rosette: Several planets or planet-sized objects orbiting each other in a
circle; there may or may not be another object at the centre. The first SF
use of the concept is probably in Arthur C Clarke's _The City and the
Stars_ (1957). Larry Niven's claim in _Ringworld_ (1970) that such a system
would be stable is false. The "order" of a rosette is the number of objects
in the circle, not counting the central body, if any (e.g. the Puppeteer
rosette in _Ringworld_ is order 5).
Superplanetary Sphere: An artificial sphere intermediate in size between a
normal planet and a Dyson sphere (see below). The first appearance of such
an object in SF (and the only one, to my knowledge) is Tony Rothman's _The
World is Round_ (1978).
Topopolis: A long, cylindrical object, rotating for gravity, and wrapped
around a star in a spaghetti-like mass (or mess). The concept was invented
by Pat Gunkel and mentioned by Larry Niven in "Bigger than Worlds", but as
far as I know nobody has yet had the audacity to write a story about it
(unless you count Greg Bear's _Eon_ and _Eternity_, which describe a
vaguely related concept).
Ringworld: A circular ribbon, very strong, rotating for gravity, with a
star at the centre. The idea was thought up by Larry Niven and first used
in his novel _Ringworld_ (1970). It was later pointed out to him that the
Ringworld would be unstable and would require some form of active control
system to keep it centred on its sun. Other appearances include Harry
Harrison's _Star Smashers of the Galaxy Rangers_ (1973) and several of Iain
M Banks' novels.
Alderson Disc: A massive disc the size of a planetary system, with a small
hole in the centre through which a star bobs up and down. Different
intelligent species, with different temperature requirements, would live at
various distances from the centre. Thought up by Dan Alderson and mentioned
by Larry Niven in "Bigger than Worlds"; as far as I know it has never been
used in a story (the idea is mentioned, as a piece of theoretically
possible engineering that has never been built, in Terry Pratchett's
_Strata_ (1981)).
Dyson Sphere: An artificial sphere the size of a planetary orbit. There
are two distinct forms. The original version (which I call "Type I")
consisted of a vast number of small structures, travelling in separate
orbits and surrounding the Sun so densely that no light escapes; this is
generally attributed to scientist Freeman Dyson, although Dyson himself
admits to having borrowed the idea from Olaf Stapledon's novel _Star Maker_
(1937). The second version ("Type II"), more common in SF, is a solid,
continuous sphere; people may live on either the inside or the outside (or,
occasionally, both). The earliest appearance of this version that I know of
was in Robert Silverberg's novel _Across a Billion Years_ (date?). One
appears in the episode "Relics" of _Star Trek: The Next Generation_, the
only appearance, as far as I know, of any kind of megastructure in the
visual media (unless you count _The Hitch-Hikers' Guide to the Galaxy_).
Galactic Sphere: Basically, a giant Type II Dyson Sphere with a whole star
cluster or galactic core inside it. There would actually be two concentric
spheres, both transparent, with the atmosphere trapped between them, in
close to zero gravity. Larry Niven describes this is "Bigger than Worlds";
I know of no fictional appearance.
Novels About Megastructures
---------------------------
(I've made a token attempt to give specific spoiler warnings by marking
entries that contain major spoilers for the novel in question with "**". In
some cases, of course, the mere presence of a title in this list is a major
spoiler in itself; there's not much I can do about that.)
Author: Greg Bear
Title: _Eon_ (1985)
_Eternity_ (1988)
Type: Unique variation involving features of the hollow world and
topopolis
Description: From the outside it appears to be an asteroid, but on the
inside it's an (apparently) infinitely long cylinder, with occasional
openings leading to various points in space and time. A city occupies part
of the axis.
Author: Greg Bear
Title: _Hegira_ (1979) **
Type: Dyson sphere (type II)
Description: A sphere constructed in the distant future and displaced
into a pocket universe of its own, to ensure the survival of humanity
through the destruction and rebirth of the "real" universe.
Author: Terry Bisson
Title: _Wyrldmaker_ (1981) **
Type: Rosette (order 3)
Description: A spaceship on a centuries-long voyage to "seed" other
planets with life; it consists of three artificial worlds, with a control
station at the centre.
Author: Jack Chalker
Title: _Midnight at the Well of Souls_ (1977)
_Exiles at the Well of Souls_ (1978)
_Quest for the Well of Souls_ (1978)
_The Return of Nathan Brazil_ (1980)
_Twilight at the Well of Souls_ (1980)
(several more books whose titles escape me)
Type: Artificial planet
Description: A planet that is actually a giant computer, used by the
ancient Markovians to create most of the other life forms in the Galaxy
(including humans). The surface is divided into 1260 hexagonal regions,
each inhabited by a different intelligent species.
Author: Arthur C Clarke
Title: _The Fountains of Paradise_ (1979)
Type: Orbital tower
Description: The book describes the construction of the first orbital
tower, made of an artificial fibre based on diamond. In later centuries,
the original tower and five others are combined with an orbiting ring to
form a structure resembling a gigantic ship's wheel.
Author: Arthur C Clarke (and Gentry Lee in second and following books)
Title: _Rendezvous with Rama_ (1973)
_Rama II_ (1989)
_The Garden of Rama_ (1991)
_Rama Revealed_ (1993)
Type: Hollow world
Description: A huge alien starship enters the Solar System, and is
investigated by the crew of the only ship able to intercept it, with the
occasional help of some back-seat scientists on Earth. They find all sorts
of strange things inside, but no sign of the aliens who built it. In later
books more ships are encountered (but I haven't read them and probably
never will).
Author: Philip Jose Farmer
Title: _Inside Outside_ (date?) **
Type: Hollow world
Description: A hollow world created by the alien "Ethicals" is used to
test human souls before birth. (The book is a "prequel" to the Riverworld
series.)
Author: Harry Harrison
Title: _Captive Universe_ (date?) **
Type: Hollow world
Description: A hollowed asteroid is sent on an interstellar voyage,
inhabited by a primitive society descended from the Aztecs; in order to
keep the nature of their world secret, their intelligence is kept
artificially low by genetic engineering.
Author: Colin Kapp
Title: _Cageworld 1: Search for the Sun_ (date?)
_Cageworld 2: The Lost Worlds of Cronus_ (date?)
_Cageworld 3: The Tyrant of Hades_ (date?)
_Cageworld 4: Star-Search_ (date?)
Type: Dyson sphere (type II)
Description: In the distant future, the Solar System has been
transformed into a series of concentric shells (one for each planet, plus
an extra one between Saturn and Uranus, if I remember rightly). People live
on the outer surface of each sphere, and have forgotten about the outside
universe. Dimensions of the system (overall): diameter 12 billion
kilometres; mass 5.2e36 kilograms (2.6 million Suns).
Author: John C McLoughlin
Title: _Toolmaker Koan_ (1988) **
Type: Hollow world
Description: A hollow asteroid, built by a long-extinct people and
controlled by an artificial intelligence from another dead world, is found
by humans, themselves the last survivors of nuclear war on Earth. The three
peoples attempt to cooperate to ensure their survival, against all the
evidence that says that intelligent species inevitably destroy themselves.
Dimensions: length 380 kilometres; diameter 30 kilometres; mass is given as
2.7 billion tonnes but this is much too small for its size (by perhaps a
factor of 1000). (I haven't mentioned the *really* big spoiler for this
book, which contains what is in my humble opinion the most stunning plot
twist in the history of science fiction ... well, maybe a photo finish with
Iain M Banks' _Use of Weapons_.)
Author: Larry Niven
Title: _Ringworld_ (1970)
_The Ringworld Engineers_ (1980)
_The Ringworld Throne_ (forthcoming)
Type: Ringworld; also mention of a rosette (order 5)
Description: The canonical ringworld, as described above. A set of
"shadow squares" surround the sun, providing a day/night cycle on the
surface. Dimensions: diameter 306 million kilometres; width 1.6 million
kilometres; mass 2e27 kilograms (330 Earths, a little more than Jupiter's
mass); rotation period 9.375 Earth days; surface "gravity" 0.94 Earth
gravity (the figure given by Niven in the second book is incorrect). The
ring is made of a very dense material called "scrith", whose strength must
be comparable to the forces that hold the atomic nucleus together (!).
Author: Frederik Pohl & Jack Williamson
Title: _Farthest Star_ (1975) **
_Wall Around a Star_ (1983) **
Type: Dyson sphere (type II)
Description: Object Lambda, alias "Cuckoo", is approaching our Galaxy
at a sixth of lightspeed. A multi-species scientific team is sent on a
one-way trip via matter transmitter/duplicator, and discover it to be a
gigantic "lifeboat" from an exploding galaxy -- including, mysteriously,
humans. Dimensions: diameter 600 million kilometres; mass 1.3e32 kilograms
(66 Suns); surface gravity 0.01 Earth gravity (the effect of low gravity on
human evolution is important to the story).
Author: Terry Pratchett
Title: _Strata_ (1981) **
Type: Discworld; also mention of orbital towers
Description: A flat disc whose surface is formed into a map of the
Earth, enclosed in a sphere with stars painted on the inside. Made by the
creators of the universe, as an intentional flaw in their creation, a clue
to their existence. Dimensions: diameter 21,000 kilometres; mass 8.1e24
kilograms (1.4 Earths); surface gravity 1.0 Earth gravity.
Author: Tony Rothman
Title: _The World is Round_ (1978)
Type: Superplanetary sphere
Description: Patra-Bannk is an artificial world, much larger than a
planet, but orbiting a star in the normal way. A black hole forms its core,
power source, and high-tech materials factory.
Author: Bob Shaw
Title: _Orbitsville_ (1975)
_Orbitsville Departure_ (1983)
_Orbitsville Judgement_ (1990)
Type: Dyson sphere (type II)
Description: A solid sphere surrounding a star, built by an ancient
alien species, apparently as a kind of trap for intelligent beings, for
unknown reasons (I haven't read all the books, so I don't know all the
secrets). A cage-like structure around the sun provides a day/night cycle
for the landscape that covers the inner surface.
Author: Charles Sheffield
Title: _The Web Between the Worlds_ (1979)
Type: Orbital tower
Description: Generally similar to the one described by Arthur C Clarke
in _The Fountains of Paradise_. Sheffield's "beanstalk" is assembled in
space and anchored to the Earth's surface in a complicated and dangerous
orbital manoeuvre; I'm inclined to agree with Clarke that Sheffield's
method would never be allowed.
Author: Brian Stableford
Title: _Journey to the Centre_ (date?)
_Invaders from the Centre_ (1990)
_The Centre Cannot Hold_ (1990)
Type: Artificial planet
Description: Asgard appears to be an Earth-sized world with a frozen
surface, but is actually a huge artifact, with thousands of internal
levels, some abandoned, some inhabited by various kinds of alien.
Author: John Varley
Title: _Titan_ (date?)
_Wizard_ (date?)
_Demon_ (date?)
Type: Hollow world
Description: A wheel-shaped object, found orbiting Saturn, turns out to
be a living thing, an intelligent world with various peculiar creatures
living inside.
Author: David Weber
Title: _Mutineers' Moon_ (date?) **
_The Armageddon Inheritance_ (date?)
Type: Artificial planet
Description: The Moon is really an enormous spaceship which carried our
ancestors to Earth. [Haven't read these; thanks to Carl Witty for details.]
Other Novels
------------
Author: Douglas Adams
Title: _The Hitch-Hikers' Guide to the Galaxy_ (1978) **
(and sequels)
Type: Artificial Planet
Description: The Earth is actually a gigantic computer, commissioned by
mice (who are actually hyper-intelligent pan-dimensional beings) and built
by the planetary engineers of Magrathea, in order to figure out the
Question to the Ultimate Answer.
Author: Brian Aldiss
Title: _Hothouse_ (1962)
Type: Orbital tower (variation)
Description: Billions of years from now, the Earth and Moon are linked
by immense webs built by huge, spider-like creatures descended from plants.
Author: Roger MacBride Allen
Title: _The Ring of Charon_ (date?)
Type: ?
Description: [Carl Witty tells me this novel includes several
megastructures, but I don't have any details.]
Author: Iain M Banks
Title: _Consider Phlebas_ (1987)
_The Player of Games_ (1988)
_Use of Weapons_ (1990)
Type: Ringworld
Description: Several "Orbitals" (small ringworlds) appear in these
novels, including (in _The Player of Games_) one under construction, using
the method described by Niven in "Bigger than Worlds". The first book
describes the spectacular destruction of a ringworld by "controlled
hypergrid intrusion".
Author: Steven Barnes and Larry Niven
Title: _The Barsoom Project_ (1989)
Type: Orbital tower
Description: There is a proposal for building an orbital tower on Mars,
to help with a terraforming project.
Author: Gregory Benford
Title: _Beyond the Fall of Night_ (date?)
Type: Orbital tower (variation)
Description: A living creature, tens of thousands of kilometres long,
spins end over end, the ends alternately touching the Earth's surface and
then flinging whatever was picked up into space. It was created as a kind
of self-repairing orbital elevator.
Author: Gregory Benford
Title: _Tides of Light_ (date?)
Type: Orbital tower (variation)
Description: Essentially identical to the creature in _Beyond the Fall
of Night_ (I think this book actually came first).
Author: Lloyd Biggle Jr
Title: _Watchers of the Dark_ (1966) **
(plus several sequels)
Type: Artificial planet
Description: The planet Primores, seat of the galactic government, and
the giant computer Supreme turn out to be one and the same.
Author: David Brin
Title: _Sundiver_ (date?)
Type: Orbital tower (?)
Description: Two "needles" which carry passengers and freight between
earth and orbit are briefly mentioned.
Author: Arthur C Clarke
Title: _The City and the Stars_ (1957)
Type: Rosette (order 6)
Description: The Seven Suns are a rosette of six stars, with a seventh
in the centre, apparently created as the capital of a galactic
civilisation, somewhere in the two billion or so years between our time and
that of the novel.
Author: Alexis A Gilliland
Title: _The End of the Empire_ (1983)
Type: Orbital tower (variation)
Description: Infiltration and overthrow by the remnants of an
interstellar empire of a system with a tide locked planet and moon
connected by an orbital tower. [Haven't read this; thanks to Sam Paik for
details.]
Author: Harry Harrison
Title: _Star Smashers of the Galaxy Rangers_ (1973)
Type: Ringworld
Description: A ringworld, apparently similar to Niven's, was built to
provide living space for an expanding civilisation. When the two edges of
its growth meet on the far side of the ring, thousands of years later, a
vicious war breaks out.
Author: John C McLoughlin
Title: _The Helix and the Sword_ (1983)
Type: Hollow world
Description: In the year 7758, humanity is spread across the Solar
System in 74,922 "Islands", engineered life forms resembling huge versions
of O'Neill-style space colonies; the Earth has been abandoned, and
inorganic technology is a near-forgotten legend.
Author: Kim Stanley Robinson
Title: _Red Mars_ (1992)
Type: Orbital tower
Description: An orbital tower is built on Mars. [Haven't read this;
thanks to Eric Floehr, David Goldfarb, and Dave Modiano for details.]
Author: Robert Silverberg
Title: _Across a Billion Years_ (date?) **
Type: Dyson sphere (type II)
Description: A team of archaeologists, searching for the remains of a
vanished civilisation, finds it in a giant artificial world.
Author: Olaf Stapledon
Title: _Star Maker_ (1937)
Type: Dyson sphere (type I); also mention of artificial planets
Description: An epic history of life in the universe, describing many
kinds of artificial world, including what later came to be referred to as
Dyson spheres.
--
Ross Smith ........................................ Wellington, New Zealand
Home: <al...@central.co.nz> ................. Work: <ross....@nz.eds.com>
[The work address is better; the home address is likely to change soon]
"Those who do not remember the past are condemned to
watch the mini-series." -- Diana Wichtel
C D Skogsberg
Ross Smith <al...@central.co.nz> printed thus:
>Presenting the latest edition of my megastructures list...
>MEGASTRUCTURES IN SCIENCE FICTION
>---------------------------------
>Compiled by Ross Smith
>Last updated 8-Dec-95
>[Snipped]
> Author: Terry Pratchett
> Title: _Strata_ (1981) **
> Type: Discworld; also mention of orbital towers
> Description: A flat disc whose surface is formed into a map of the
>Earth, enclosed in a sphere with stars painted on the inside. Made by the
>creators of the universe, as an intentional flaw in their creation, a clue
>to their existence. Dimensions: diameter 21,000 kilometres; mass 8.1e24
>kilograms (1.4 Earths); surface gravity 1.0 Earth gravity.
There is also mentions of a half-a-million mile long living creature
(called a Paleotech), shaped "like a thin-walled tube"; it was "dead,
at least by human terms".
As a side-note there is also a mention of a artificial structure of
large scale in Terry Pratchett's _The Dark Side of the Sun_ (it's a
bank large enough to be affected by the Roche limit). Haven't read it
myself, so I can't say if it's only an incidental mention...
cd
--
cd skogsberg/c...@alfakonsult.se/Disclaimer: Wo bu hui jiang zhongwen.
"Death to all humans!" -Battlecry of the Republic
Nancy Lebovitz
about a diskworld with the sun in the middle. There were 3 or less of
them, and the writing was reminiscent of Tubb, but obviously less
vivid--or I would have remembered more details. (Yeah, sure, blame
the author.)
Does this sound familiar to anyone?
Nancy Lebovitz (nan...@universe.digex.net)
Rob Furr
nan...@universe.digex.net (Nancy Lebovitz) wrote:
>In article <4aioa4$7...@newton.uncg.edu>, Rob Furr <rsf...@uncg.edu> wrote:
>>In article <4ai8f6$n...@universe.digex.net>,
>> nan...@universe.digex.net (Nancy Lebovitz) wrote:
>No, it was a disk, and it was a novel. I can remember that the cover
>painting was really klutzy, but I can't remember the subject matter.
>Am I the only one who somewhat remembers covers as color patterns?
I do as well. In fact, there's a book question that *I* have ...
The cover was brightly painted - reminds me of the British covers of
Pratchett books these days - with blue predominating, I think, although
green was involved as well. Hardback, 200-300 page children's book.
Details I remember: Three British kids go have a picnic, either taking the
train to get to their picnic spot, or merely taking a picnic lunch near the
railroad tracks. They discover an entrance into an underground world with
very vivid color descriptions, a sun, flavored water, and talking animals,
where they become involved with some vital struggle between one group and
another (I think.) It's fairly light-hearted, and a talking parrot is a
major player in the story. A griffin may be involved as well, but I don't
recall. I do remember that, as a child, it was the book that introduced me
to the concept of bottled lemonade (I'd never even THOUGHT that you could
get commercially prepared lemonade before. You buy the powder, you mix it
yourself, that was how you got lemonade. Why buy the water as well? Blew
*my* mind, let me tell you.)(okay, so my mind was easily blown back then.)
Anyway. The book cover was bluish, with green towards the bottom, and had an
illustration of the kids looking across this magical kingdom or whatever it
was.
This is not _Over Sea, Under Stone_, btw. I've read Cooper recently enough
to know what happens in _The Dark Is Rising_ sequence, and the book I'm
thinking about is *far* more cheery and funny than that.
Any suggestions?
Rob F.
Richard Kettlewell
>As a side-note there is also a mention of a artificial structure of
>large scale in Terry Pratchett's _The Dark Side of the Sun_ (it's a
>bank large enough to be affected by the Roche limit). Haven't read it
>myself, so I can't say if it's only an incidental mention...
The Bank is a fairly major character (if you'll excuse the pun). It
wasn't constructed however, but arose naturally (as an intelligence;
the banking came later).
--
Richard Kettlewell ric...@uk.geeks.org
`I'm leaving,' the clock told the bonsai at the left-hand end of the
mantel.
http://www.elmail.co.uk/staff/richard/
Nancy Lebovitz
>In article <4ai8f6$n...@universe.digex.net>,
> nan...@universe.digex.net (Nancy Lebovitz) wrote:
>>about a diskworld with the sun in the middle. There were 3 or less of
>>them, and the writing was reminiscent of Tubb, but obviously less
>>vivid--or I would have remembered more details. (Yeah, sure, blame
>>the author.)
>
>toroid.
>
>Hurm.
>
>Well, there's _A Hole In Space_, which *mentions* a discworld with a sun in
>the middle - it's an Alderson Disc, and appears in "Bigger Than Worlds."
>
No, it was a disk, and it was a novel. I can remember that the cover
painting was really klutzy, but I can't remember the subject matter.
Am I the only one who somewhat remembers covers as color patterns?
Nancy Lebovitz (nan...@universe.digex.net)
Rob Furr
nan...@universe.digex.net (Nancy Lebovitz) wrote:
>This is almost hopelessly vague, but I think I remember a DAW series
>about a diskworld with the sun in the middle. There were 3 or less of
>them, and the writing was reminiscent of Tubb, but obviously less
>vivid--or I would have remembered more details. (Yeah, sure, blame
>the author.)
The basic concept brings _Circumpolar!_ (Lupoff?) to mind, but that was a
toroid.
Hurm.
Well, there's _A Hole In Space_, which *mentions* a discworld with a sun in
the middle - it's an Alderson Disc, and appears in "Bigger Than Worlds."
Rob F.
David Mix Barrington
: [query about British kids sf/fantasy book]
: [...] I do remember that, as a child, it was the book that introduced me
: get commercially prepared lemonade before. You buy the powder, you mix it
: yourself, that was how you got lemonade. Why buy the water as well? Blew
: *my* mind, let me tell you.)(okay, so my mind was easily blown back then.)
I can't tell from your posting whether you subsequently learned this,
but "lemonade" in British English refers to a clear carbonated drink,
similar but inferior to American Sprite (TM) or 7-Up (TM). It is the
cheapest and most easily obtainable non-alcoholic drink in pubs. There
is another wierd kid's drink called "squash", which is a liquid fruit-flavored
(orange or lemon) concentrate which you buy in plastic bottles and mix
with several parts water. It's about as ghastly as American Kool-Aid (TM).
Now when I was a kid, I was confused that the kids in the Narnia books
were allowed to carry around a "torch", which I took to be an open flame
on a stick (only US meaning) rather than an electric flashlight (British
meaning).
Dave MB
Arnold Bailey
>No, it was a disk, and it was a novel. I can remember that the cover
>painting was really klutzy, but I can't remember the subject matter.
>Am I the only one who somewhat remembers covers as color patterns?
>
There was a book called "Hyperspace Engineers" that featured a disk around
a solar mass black hole. CAn't remember the author.
--
Arnold Bailey - aba...@bix.com - aba...@webwrights.com
WebWrights - Web Services, Web Pages and Web Site Management
http://www.webwrights.com/
Rob Furr
"Andrew C. Plotkin" <erky...@CMU.EDU> wrote:
>rsf...@uncg.edu (Rob Furr) writes:
>>
>The book is called _The Talking Parcel_, but I don't remember the
>author. I recall liking it a lot.
_The Talking Parcel_!
Assuming that that's it - THANK YOU!
You have no idea how long I've been looking for this title...
Rob F.
Andrew C. Plotkin
> I do as well. In fact, there's a book question that *I* have ...
>
> The cover was brightly painted - reminds me of the British covers of
> Pratchett books these days - with blue predominating, I think, although
> green was involved as well. Hardback, 200-300 page children's book.
>
> Details I remember: Three British kids go have a picnic, either taking the
> train to get to their picnic spot, or merely taking a picnic lunch near the
> railroad tracks. They discover an entrance into an underground world with
> very vivid color descriptions, a sun, flavored water, and talking animals,
> where they become involved with some vital struggle between one group and
> another (I think.) It's fairly light-hearted, and a talking parrot is a
> major player in the story. A griffin may be involved as well, but I don't
> get commercially prepared lemonade before. You buy the powder, you mix it
> yourself, that was how you got lemonade. Why buy the water as well? Blew
> *my* mind, let me tell you.)(okay, so my mind was easily blown back then.)
>
> illustration of the kids looking across this magical kingdom or whatever it
> was.
The book is called _The Talking Parcel_, but I don't remember the
author. I recall liking it a lot.
--Z
"And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the borogoves..."
Ahasuerus the Wandering Jew
> >author. I recall liking it a lot.
>
>
> Assuming that that's it - THANK YOU! [snip]
Andrew is probably correct as I remember that the author was a famous
"popular biology" author which fits Gerald Malcolm Durrell's credentials
very well.
--
Ahasuerus http://www.clark.net/pub/ahasuer/, including:
FAQs: rec.arts.sf.written, alt.fan.heinlein, alt.pulp, the Liaden Universe
Biblios: how to write SF, the Wandering Jew, miscellaneous SF
Please consider posting (as opposed to e-mailing) ID requests
Rob Furr
bar...@fiji.cs.umass.edu (David Mix Barrington) wrote:
>I can't tell from your posting whether you subsequently learned this,
>but "lemonade" in British English refers to a clear carbonated drink,
>similar but inferior to American Sprite (TM) or 7-Up (TM). It is the
>cheapest and most easily obtainable non-alcoholic drink in pubs. There
>is another wierd kid's drink called "squash", which is a liquid
> fruit-flavored (orange or lemon) concentrate which you buy in plastic
>bottles and mix with several parts water. It's about as ghastly as
>American Kool-Aid (TM).
Really? No, I never learned that. Wow. Ya learn something new every day.
>Now when I was a kid, I was confused that the kids in the Narnia books
>were allowed to carry around a "torch", which I took to be an open flame
>on a stick (only US meaning) rather than an electric flashlight (British
>meaning).
Yeah, same here, although *that* one was sufficiently wacky that I went and
looked it up. There wasn't anything in the book to indicate that lemonade
means 'a clear carbonated drink,' but I sort of doubt that a kid would carry
an open flame through a wardrobe crammed with fur coats.
Rob F.
Adam Judson
: In article <0knlUdC00...@andrew.cmu.edu>,
: "Andrew C. Plotkin" <erky...@CMU.EDU> wrote:
: >The book is called _The Talking Parcel_, but I don't remember the
: >author. I recall liking it a lot.
: _The Talking Parcel_!
: Assuming that that's it - THANK YOU!
FYI, I believe the author of The Talking Parcel is Gerard Durrell.
Adam Judson
aju...@io.org
K C Moore
bar...@fiji.cs.umass.edu "David Mix Barrington" writes:
> I can't tell from your posting whether you subsequently learned this,
> but "lemonade" in British English refers to a clear carbonated drink,
> similar but inferior to American Sprite (TM) or 7-Up (TM). It is the
> cheapest and most easily obtainable non-alcoholic drink in pubs. [ ... ]
While this is true as far as it goes, it is substantially incomplete.
In the UK of 1963 "lemonade" could also mean a drink made at home from
lemons, sugar, ice and water mixed in an electric blender. In the UK
of 1995 it is also a translucent carbonated drink, including lemons as
one ingredient, available from the better class of supermarket (eg
"Waitrose Old-fashioned Lemonade"). The first is superior to most
commercial drinks (I remember some margueritas (sp?) in CA and NM which
were even better) ; the second I prefer to any US mass-production I have
yet tried (including the TM 2 above), but YMMV.
--
Ken Moore
k...@hpsl.demon.co.uk
Avram Grumer
> The basic concept brings _Circumpolar!_ (Lupoff?) to mind, but that was a
> toroid.
The world in _Circumpolar_ (yes, by Richard Lupoff) is a _flattened_
toroid. Says so right in the beginning of the book.
+--------------------+---------------------------------------------+
| Avram Grumer | http://www.users.interport.net/~avram |
+--------------------+---------------------------------------------+
| If music be the food of love, then some of it be the twinkies of |
| dysfunctional relationships. |
+------------------------------------------------------------------+
Ross Smith
>> Title: _Strata_ (1981) **
>> Type: Discworld; also mention of orbital towers
>> Description: A flat disc whose surface is formed into a map of the
>>Earth, enclosed in a sphere with stars painted on the inside. Made by the
>>creators of the universe, as an intentional flaw in their creation, a clue
>>to their existence. Dimensions: diameter 21,000 kilometres; mass 8.1e24
>>kilograms (1.4 Earths); surface gravity 1.0 Earth gravity.
>
>(called a Paleotech), shaped "like a thin-walled tube"; it was "dead,
>at least by human terms".
Ah! I'd forgotten about that. I'll add a mention of it.
>As a side-note there is also a mention of a artificial structure of
>large scale in Terry Pratchett's _The Dark Side of the Sun_ (it's a
>bank large enough to be affected by the Roche limit). Haven't read it
>myself, so I can't say if it's only an incidental mention...
The Bank of Sirius is a living creature that grew until it covered
a whole planet; it's not clear how much of the interior has become
part of the lifeform. A borderline case, I think.
--
Ross Smith ........................................ Wellington, New Zealand
Home: <al...@netlink.co.nz> ................. Work: <ross....@nz.eds.com>