George Orwell's "1984" used in a negative judgement of Australia

a425couple

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Sep 3, 2021, 11:09:38 AM9/3/21

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George Orwell's "1984" used in a negative judgement of Australia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineteen_Eighty-Four

This from the liberal Atlantic:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/09/pandemic-australia-still-liberal-democracy/619940/

Australia Traded Away Too Much Liberty
How long can a democracy maintain emergency restrictions and
still call itself a free country?

By Conor Friedersdorf

In a bid to keep the coronavirus out of the country, Australia’s federal
and state governments imposed draconian restrictions on its citizens.
Prime Minister Scott Morrison knows that the burden is too heavy. “This
is not a sustainable way to live in this country,” he recently declared.
One prominent civil libertarian summed up the rules by lamenting, “We’ve
never seen anything like this in our lifetimes.”

Up to now one of Earth’s freest societies, Australia has become a hermit
continent. How long can a country maintain emergency restrictions on its
citizens’ lives while still calling itself a liberal democracy?

Australia has been testing the limits.

Before 2020, the idea of Australia all but forbidding its citizens from
leaving the country, a restriction associated with Communist regimes,
was unthinkable. Today, it is a widely accepted policy. “Australia’s
borders are currently closed and international travel from Australia
remains strictly controlled to help prevent the spread of COVID-19,” a
government website declares. “International travel from Australia is
only available if you are exempt or you have been granted an individual
exemption.”

-----

Intrastate travel within Australia is also severely restricted. And
the government of South Australia, one of the country’s six states,
developed and is now testing an app as Orwellian as any in the free
world to enforce its quarantine rules. People in South Australia will
be forced to download an app that combines facial recognition and
geolocation. The state will text them at random times, and thereafter
they will have 15 minutes to take a picture of their face in the
location where they are supposed to be. Should they fail, the local
police department will be sent to follow up in person. “We don’t tell
them how often or when, on a random basis they have to reply within 15
minutes,”

Premier Steven Marshall explained. “I think every South Australian
should feel pretty proud that we are the national pilot for the
home-based quarantine app.”

Proud, proud Australians.

(And, before anyone accuses, I do take carnivorous
fairly seriously, I'm in my mid-70s, and my country
provided me with a choice of vaccines, and I took them
in January and February 2021. I avoid large tightly
packed crowds, but do attend and participate in
sports car races, and do travel around.)

Ninapenda Jibini

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Sep 3, 2021, 12:26:08 PM9/3/21

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a425couple <a425c...@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:sgtdp...@news4.newsguy.com:

> Up to now one of Earth’s freest societies,

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

This has surprised no one who has paid attention to Oz in the last
couple of decades. No surprise that the government has imposed one of
the most brutal totalitarian regimes, nor than the sheeple of Oz not
only tolerate it, but are *proud* of it.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Kevrob

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Sep 3, 2021, 2:31:11 PM9/3/21

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On Friday, September 3, 2021 at 12:26:08 PM UTC-4, Ninapenda Jibini wrote:
> a425couple <a425c...@hotmail.com> wrote in
> news:sgtdp...@news4.newsguy.com:
> > Up to now one of Earth’s freest societies,

> Ha...{repeats}

[snip]

>
> This has surprised no one who has paid attention to Oz in the last
> couple of decades. No surprise that the government has imposed one of
> the most brutal totalitarian regimes, nor than the sheeple of Oz not
> only tolerate it, but are *proud* of it.
>
> --

If one gets permission to travel, what is the document for that called?
A "ticket of leave," perhaps?

--
Kevin R

Ted Nolan <tednolan>

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Sep 3, 2021, 2:42:53 PM9/3/21

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In article <a4150d45-3e64-4f74...@googlegroups.com>,

A ticket to ride.

But only if you do right.
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

J. Clarke

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Sep 3, 2021, 2:45:44 PM9/3/21

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On Fri, 3 Sep 2021 11:31:08 -0700 (PDT), Kevrob <kev...@my-deja.com>
wrote:

"outwards travel exemption". They're not quite as bad as the Soviet
Union--if you're not an Australian citizen and don't normally reside
in Australia then their attitude seems to be "don't let the door hit
you, good riddance, and don't try to come back". In Russia,
_everybody_ needs an exit visa.

Oh, and if you're leaving they'll give you a COVID shot _unless_
you're going to be out of the country for more than 3 months.

Quadibloc

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Sep 3, 2021, 6:49:55 PM9/3/21

to

On Friday, September 3, 2021 at 10:26:08 AM UTC-6, Ninapenda Jibini wrote:
> No surprise that the government has imposed one of
> the most brutal totalitarian regimes,

I think that's a bit of an exaggeration. There's no comparison between
Australia and, say, North Korea or Belarus, for example. Or even Red China.

John Savard

Tony Nance

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Sep 3, 2021, 6:51:39 PM9/3/21

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On Friday, September 3, 2021 at 2:42:53 PM UTC-4, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
> In article <a4150d45-3e64-4f74...@googlegroups.com>,
> Kevrob <kev...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> >On Friday, September 3, 2021 at 12:26:08 PM UTC-4, Ninapenda Jibini wrote:
> >> a425couple <a425c...@hotmail.com> wrote in
> >> news:sgtdp...@news4.newsguy.com:
> >> > Up to now one of Earth’s freest societies,
> >> Ha...{repeats}
> >
> >[snip]
> >>
> >> This has surprised no one who has paid attention to Oz in the last
> >> couple of decades. No surprise that the government has imposed one of
> >> the most brutal totalitarian regimes, nor than the sheeple of Oz not
> >> only tolerate it, but are *proud* of it.
> >>
> >> --
> >
> >If one gets permission to travel, what is the document for that called?
> >A "ticket of leave," perhaps?
> >
> A ticket to ride.
>

She's got one, but she don't care.

Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha

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Sep 3, 2021, 7:23:02 PM9/3/21

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Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in
news:4567c3a7-93a1-4460...@googlegroups.com:

> On Friday, September 3, 2021 at 10:26:08 AM UTC-6, Ninapenda
> Jibini wrote:
>> No surprise that the government has imposed one of
>> the most brutal totalitarian regimes,
>
> I think

There's zero evidence of that.

>that's a bit of an exaggeration.

You woudl believe that, being in Canuckistan yourself. You're not far
behind Oz on that scale.

There's no comparison
> between Australia and, say, North Korea or Belarus, for example.
> Or even Red China.
>

None of which pretend to be democracies. What makes Oz more brutal is
that the people there don't *know* they're property.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

Titus G

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Sep 3, 2021, 9:02:52 PM9/3/21

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None of North Korea, Belarus and Black (smog-ridden) China have laws
prohibiting the sale of alcohol to Australian Aboriginals, do they?
(Hong Kong might if the law hasn't been updated since decolonisation.)
It is even worse in New Zealand as unlike our neighbours, we are not
even permitted to build homes on dry riverbeds or in the middle of
forests known to spontaneously ignite. As our Lynn would say, there are
more urgent problems than the Woodstock 'flu and some minor variations
in the weather.

[ADVERTISEMENT.
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and concept of reality to converse on the internet AT THE SAME LEVEL as
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Chrysi Cat

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Sep 3, 2021, 11:10:21 PM9/3/21

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On 9/3/2021 7:02 PM, Titus G wrote:
> On 4/09/21 10:49 am, Quadibloc wrote:
>> On Friday, September 3, 2021 at 10:26:08 AM UTC-6, Ninapenda Jibini wrote:
>>> No surprise that the government has imposed one of
>>> the most brutal totalitarian regimes,
>>
>> I think that's a bit of an exaggeration. There's no comparison between
>> Australia and, say, North Korea or Belarus, for example. Or even Red China.
>
> None of North Korea, Belarus and Black (smog-ridden) China have laws
> prohibiting the sale of alcohol to Australian Aboriginals, do they?
> (Hong Kong might if the law hasn't been updated since decolonisation.)
> It is even worse in New Zealand as unlike our neighbours, we are not
> even permitted to build homes on dry riverbeds or in the middle of
> forests known to spontaneously ignite. As our Lynn would say, there are
> more urgent problems than the Woodstock 'flu and some minor variations
> in the weather.
>

You're being sarcastic with those "controlling" laws being bad things,
right?

If they were legal to do, people would do them, and then either they or
other people would riot when the inevitable disaster befell them and
wiped out their life savings plus put them another 45k in arrears while
the government told them to suck it up and maybe hopefully their
grandchildren might actually be capable of maintaining a positive net
worth again.

Well, all except the "sale of alcohol to Aboriginal Australians" one.
That one doesn't prevent people from things that would directly bankrupt
THEM, but rather their "customers".

And feel free to suggest a way in which we can get up the alcohol
tolerance of EITHER Aboriginal Australians or New World
First-Inhabitants to the levels of East Asia or Europe so that we can
remove those laws without running the risk of destroying 80 percent of
the remaining indigenous populations.

>
> [ADVERTISEMENT.
> Would you like to be able to suppress your common sense, use of logic
> and concept of reality to converse on the internet AT THE SAME LEVEL as
> some of its questionable political genii? Titus G has passed the course
> and for the small fee of $US100 you can too! For further details send
> your personal pin number to...............]
>
>

--
Chrysi Cat
1/2 anthrocat, nearly 1/2 anthrofox, all magical
Transgoddess, quick to anger
Call me Chrysi or call me Kat, I'll respond to either!

Quadibloc

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Sep 3, 2021, 11:33:18 PM9/3/21

to

On Friday, September 3, 2021 at 9:10:21 PM UTC-6, Chrysi Cat wrote:

> And feel free to suggest a way in which we can get up the alcohol
> tolerance of EITHER Aboriginal Australians or New World
> First-Inhabitants to the levels of East Asia or Europe so that we can
> remove those laws without running the risk of destroying 80 percent of
> the remaining indigenous populations.

Sadly, Canada did remove those discriminatory laws in the early 1960s.

There is, of course, an obvious way to protect the people of the First Nations
from alcohol, which is to them as dangerous as heroin, without racial
discrimination.

Bring back Prohibition.

Unfortunately, I think that many voters would have their doubts that the
government would be able to make it work *this* time - and, of course,
they wouldn't really want it to try anyways.

John Savard

peterw...@hotmail.com

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Sep 4, 2021, 12:53:14 AM9/4/21

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On Friday, September 3, 2021 at 10:09:38 AM UTC-5, a425couple wrote:
........................................................

> (And, before anyone accuses, I do take carnivorous
> fairly seriously, I'm in my mid-70s, and my country
> provided me with a choice of vaccines, and I took them
> in January and February 2021. I avoid large tightly
> packed crowds, but do attend and participate in
> sports car races, and do travel around.)

I presume that "carnivorous" was an autocorrect error and that it
should have been "corona virus"?

Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist

Jonathan

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Sep 4, 2021, 8:32:13 AM9/4/21

to

On 9/3/2021 11:08 AM, a425couple wrote:

> George Orwell's "1984" used in a negative judgement of Australia
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineteen_Eighty-Four
>
> This from the liberal Atlantic:
>
> https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/09/pandemic-australia-still-liberal-democracy/619940/
>
>
> Australia Traded Away Too Much Liberty
> How long can a democracy maintain emergency restrictions and
> still call itself a free country?
>
> By Conor Friedersdorf
>
>

> People in South Australia will
> be forced to download an app that combines facial recognition and
> geolocation. The state will text them at random times, and thereafter
> they will have 15 minutes to take a picture of their face in the
> location where they are supposed to be. Should they fail, the local
> police department will be sent to follow up in person. “We don’t tell
> them how often or when, on a random basis they have to reply within 15
> minutes,”

It's like putting an GPS ankle bracelet on criminals
on probation or confined to home and such.
Treating ALL their citizens like criminals.

It's way over the Big Brother line imho.

Such a program could be left in place
after COVID for 'other' reasons having
more to do with protecting those in power
not society.

Vaccinations are the answer not this kind
of enforced quarantines. But the current
Aussie govt are the conservatives and
mandating vaccines are out of the question
for them.

It's Big Brother 2021 aka repression without a clue.

>
> Premier Steven Marshall explained. “I think every South Australian
> should feel pretty proud that we are the national pilot for the
> home-based quarantine app.”
>
> Proud, proud Australians.
>
> (And, before anyone accuses, I do take carnivorous
> fairly seriously, I'm in my mid-70s, and my country
> provided me with a choice of vaccines, and I took them
> in January and February 2021. I avoid large tightly
> packed crowds, but do attend and participate in
> sports car races, and do travel around.)

In Florida my workplace still enforces a ten day
quarantine if employees travel outside the state
and return. But it's essentially a voluntary program
as you have to self-report the travel.

And calling in sick for just about any reason
and you have to stay home 10 days. Like many
I used that policy for a much needed but
unpaid vacation last month <g>.

I know it's shady, but I...was sick that day.
Most people just call in claiming they need
a personal day off, not sick, to avoid the
ten day requirement.

But I decided to be honest, but for self-serving
reasons.

--
BIG LIE From Wiki - "The German expression was coined by Adolf Hitler
when he dictated his 1925 book Mein Kampf, to describe the use of a lie
so *colossal* that no one would believe that someone "could have the
impudence to distort the truth so infamously."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_lie

Jonathan

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Sep 4, 2021, 8:39:19 AM9/4/21

to

On 9/3/2021 11:08 AM, a425couple wrote:

> George Orwell's "1984" used in a negative judgement of Australia
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineteen_Eighty-Four
>
> This from the liberal Atlantic:
>
>
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/09/pandemic-australia-still-liberal-democracy/619940/
>
> Australia Traded Away Too Much Liberty
> How long can a democracy maintain emergency restrictions and
> still call itself a free country?
>
> By Conor Friedersdorf
>
>

> People in South Australia will
> be forced to download an app that combines facial recognition and
> geolocation. The state will text them at random times, and thereafter
> they will have 15 minutes to take a picture of their face in the
> location where they are supposed to be. Should they fail, the local
> police department will be sent to follow up in person. “We don’t tell
> them how often or when, on a random basis they have to reply within 15
> minutes,”

It's like putting an GPS ankle bracelet on criminals

on probation. Treating ALL their citizens like criminals.

It's way over the Big Brother line imho.

Such a program could be left in place
after COVID for 'other' reasons having
more to do with protecting those in power

not society. The old slippery slope.

Vaccinations are the answer not this kind
of enforced quarantines. But the current
Aussie govt are the conservatives and
mandating vaccines are out of the question
for them.

It's Big Brother 2021 aka 'repression without a clue'.

>
> Premier Steven Marshall explained. “I think every South Australian
> should feel pretty proud that we are the national pilot for the
> home-based quarantine app.”
>
> Proud, proud Australians.
>
> (And, before anyone accuses, I do take carnivorous
> fairly seriously, I'm in my mid-70s, and my country
> provided me with a choice of vaccines, and I took them
> in January and February 2021. I avoid large tightly
> packed crowds, but do attend and participate in
> sports car races, and do travel around.)

In Florida my workplace still enforces a ten day
quarantine if employees travel outside the state
and return. But it's essentially a voluntary program
as you have to self-report the travel.

And calling in sick for just about any reason
and you have to stay home 10 days.

Quadibloc

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Sep 4, 2021, 8:54:33 AM9/4/21

to

On Friday, September 3, 2021 at 9:09:38 AM UTC-6, a425couple wrote:
> People in South Australia will
> be forced to download an app that combines facial recognition and
> geolocation. The state will text them at random times, and thereafter
> they will have 15 minutes to take a picture of their face in the
> location where they are supposed to be. Should they fail, the local
> police department will be sent to follow up in person. “We don’t tell
> them how often or when, on a random basis they have to reply within 15
> minutes,”

This _is_ concerning. Is this _all_ people (over a certain age) in South
Australia, or only people who are quarantined? And if it _is_ everyone,
just how serious is the coronavirus there?

If Australia is nearly devoid of the novel coronavirus - as one would expect
to be the case, given the restrictions on international travel mentioned in the
same article, then requiring everyone to have such a program on their phones,
to enforce compliance with pandemic regulations, would seem to be
completely unwarranted, and even bizarre, in addition to being an intrusion on
personal liberty.

However, _if_ limitations on individual freedom are necessary to prevent a
pandemic from becoming more widespread - given the present situation in
much of the Western world, where health care workers are collapsing from
overwork, genuinely necessary restrictions are not something I will condemn.
So I am going to look into this, to find out more details.

John Savard

Quadibloc

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Sep 4, 2021, 8:58:12 AM9/4/21

to

On Saturday, September 4, 2021 at 6:54:33 AM UTC-6, Quadibloc wrote:

> So I am going to look into this, to find out more details.

It turns out that the only people asked to use this phone app
are people who have travelled from other parts of Australia;
it serves as an alternative to being quarantined in a hotel for
several days.

Thus, this "Orwellian" claim is a complete exaggeration.

John Savard

Jack Bohn

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Sep 4, 2021, 10:10:38 AM9/4/21

to

This being Australia, it could be in the local dialect the adjective "carnivorous" doesn't need an object to modify, because everything is carnivorous!

I feel even with the carnivorous and the corona virus, we should also talk about the relative risk of accident in sports car races, and, depending on how far apart the tracks are, traffic accidents in between.

--
-Jack

Paul S Person

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Sep 4, 2021, 12:08:23 PM9/4/21

to

On Sat, 4 Sep 2021 05:58:10 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca>
wrote:

Do we even need to ask which wingnuts are pushing this claim?

Didn't think so.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

peterw...@hotmail.com

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Sep 4, 2021, 12:30:21 PM9/4/21

to

I wondered about this myself. Doesn't Australia have about the highest per-capita meat consumption
of any country? Therefore it would make sense to take carnivorous seriously.

Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist

Michael F. Stemper

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Sep 4, 2021, 1:21:53 PM9/4/21

to

On 04/09/2021 07.58, Quadibloc wrote:
> On Saturday, September 4, 2021 at 6:54:33 AM UTC-6, Quadibloc wrote:

>> So I am going to look into this, to find out more details.
>
> It turns out that the only people asked to use this phone app
> are people who have travelled from other parts of Australia;
> it serves as an alternative to being quarantined in a hotel for
> several days.

Thank you for digging up this information.

> Thus, this "Orwellian" claim is a complete exaggeration.

--
Michael F. Stemper
Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.

J. Clarke

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Sep 4, 2021, 3:04:52 PM9/4/21

to

On Sat, 4 Sep 2021 05:54:30 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca>
wrote:

This actually led me to read a story on Fox News. Turns out that (1)
it only applies to people who are in the 14-day quarantine period
after foreign travel and (2) it is a voluntary alternative to hotel
quarantine.

Fully story here:
<https://www.foxnews.com/world/australia-debuts-new-orwellian-app-using-facial-recognition-geolocation-to-enforce-quarantine>

pete...@gmail.com

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Sep 4, 2021, 9:53:17 PM9/4/21

to

just for info:

Australia has had 1034 covid deaths over the entire pandemic.
That's a rate of 40 deaths per million.
The US rate is 1998 per million.

Their lockdown and travel ban may be draconian, but it works.

New Zealand has a rate of 5/million.

pt

Lynn McGuire

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Sep 5, 2021, 12:00:44 AM9/5/21

to

The pandemic is not over yet. Those numbers will be changing.

Lynn

Gary R. Schmidt

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Sep 5, 2021, 1:49:10 AM9/5/21

to

True, but if our stupid pollies and business-droids didn't keep pushing
to "open the borders" we'd be able to keep a better handle on it. (And,
well, then there's their Gladdie (in NSW) who believes in locking-down
suburbs, so that one side of the street is lock-down, and the other
isn't, and the virus will obey the restrictions, as will the humans!)

Current projections for my state - Victoria - are for 300 cases per day
once we get to 70% of the (eligible) population on their first hit of
any vaccine.

More sobering predictions by those in the know is that we need 90%
vaccination of the *entire* population to be sure it won't exceed ICU
and ventilator capacity - and /that/ presumes we won't have to shut down
entire hospitals because the virus takes out most of the staff.

It's a nasty little bug, it's just sent the aged-care facility I moved
my Mum into a week ago into lock-down for a fortnight, so far no
resident or staffer has tested positive except for the trigger case, I
hope it stays that way. :-(

Cheers,
Gary B-)

--
Waiting for a new signature to suggest itself...

James Nicoll

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Sep 5, 2021, 9:15:50 AM9/5/21

to

In article <sh1fd8$1l7$1...@dont-email.me>,

I thought the official line of the red hats was that there is no
pandemic and anyway deworming medicine will fix it? I guess the
second part is true, in the sense people who shit themselves to
death won't die of other causes.

--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

J. Clarke

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Sep 5, 2021, 9:34:05 AM9/5/21

to

I get sick of this "deworming medicine" nonsense. The stuff is FDA
approved for human use, it doesn't cause people to "shit themselves to
death" and there is evidence that it can impede the replication of the
virus. There is no evidence that it actually affects the progress of
COVID in humans but there is no evidence that it doesn't, either. If
in clinical trials (which are in process) it shows efficacy, you're
going to look like a moron for sneering at it.

And now, if you follow the standard pattern, you are going to call me
names.

Robert Carnegie

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Sep 5, 2021, 10:26:04 AM9/5/21

to

Or post links. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-58449876

"gunshot victims are having hard times getting treated"

https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/why-you-should-not-use-ivermectin-treat-or-prevent-covid-19

"You are not a horse. You are not a cow." (not on the page
but evidently a summary of it)

J. Clarke

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Sep 5, 2021, 11:19:32 AM9/5/21

to

Read the page very carefully. Especially the "What you need to know"
part:
__________________________________________________________________
"Here’s What You Need to Know about Ivermectin

The FDA has not authorized or approved ivermectin for use in
preventing or treating COVID-19 in humans or animals. *Ivermectin is
approved for human use* to treat infections caused by some parasitic
worms and head lice and skin conditions like rosacea.
Currently available data do not show ivermectin is effective against
COVID-19. Clinical trials assessing ivermectin tablets for the
prevention or treatment of COVID-19 in people are ongoing.
Taking large doses of ivermectin is dangerous.
If your health care provider writes you an ivermectin prescription,
fill it through a legitimate source such as a pharmacy, and take it
exactly as prescribed.
Never use medications intended for animals on yourself or other
people. Animal ivermectin products are very different from those
approved for humans. Use of animal ivermectin for the prevention or
treatment of COVID-19 in humans is dangerous. "
___________________________________________________________________

Calling it a "horse dewormer" implies that its only on-label use is
deworming horses and that there is no preparation of it that is
approved for use in humans.

Paul S Person

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Sep 5, 2021, 11:49:11 AM9/5/21

to

n Sun, 5 Sep 2021 13:15:47 -0000 (UTC), jdni...@panix.com (James
Nicoll) wrote:

>In article <sh1fd8$1l7$1...@dont-email.me>,
>Lynn McGuire <lynnmc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>On 9/4/2021 8:53 PM, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> On Saturday, September 4, 2021 at 3:04:52 PM UTC-4, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 4 Sep 2021 05:54:30 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> On Friday, September 3, 2021 at 9:09:38 AM UTC-6, a425couple wrote:
>>>>>> People in South Australia will
>>>>>> be forced to download an app that combines facial recognition and
>>>>>> geolocation. The state will text them at random times, and thereafter
>>>>>> they will have 15 minutes to take a picture of their face in the
>>>>>> location where they are supposed to be. Should they fail, the local
>>>>>> police department will be sent to follow up in person. “We don’t tell
>>>>>> them how often or when, on a random basis they have to reply within 15

>>>>>> minutes,�€?

You forgot the bleach ...

Paul S Person

unread,

Sep 5, 2021, 11:56:33 AM9/5/21

to

Sounds a lot like -- what was it? -- oh, yes, laetrile.

Bing's results
<https://www.bing.com/search?q=apricot+kernels+cancer+cure&cvid=33a1d59ed441401c92b7a76bc512272e&aqs=edge.2.69i57j0l5.29549j0j1&pglt=675&FORM=ANSPA1&PC=U531>
show many of the same arguments.

IIRC, the problem with laetrile isn't that it doesn't work in the
petri dish; it is that it cannot be used because it will not survive
long enough after either injection or consumption to have any effect.

Perhaps some of the cancer-targetting nano-containers designed to keep
the payload intact until needed will help ...

>And now, if you follow the standard pattern, you are going to call me
>names.

Not so far. But there weren't a lot of posts today, for some reason.

As to the dewormers -- you get what you pay for.

And even Trump has expressed some alarm at the fact that is /his/
voters who are not getting vaccinated and so are dying. IIRC, that is.

Scott Lurndal

unread,

Sep 5, 2021, 12:14:52 PM9/5/21

to

They call it that because that's what people are buying at
Ag vet supplies and subsequently consuming, often to their
detriment.

James Nicoll

unread,

Sep 5, 2021, 12:49:43 PM9/5/21

to

In article <Y16ZI.103091$T_8.1...@fx48.iad>,

I think you misspelled _hilarious_ detriment. Mind you, it's
very hard on the horses that needed that medication.

Titus G

unread,

Sep 5, 2021, 4:29:56 PM9/5/21

to

On 6/09/21 1:34 am, J. Clarke wrote:
> On Sun, 5 Sep 2021 13:15:47 -0000 (UTC), jdni...@panix.com (James
> Nicoll) wrote:
>

snip

>> I thought the official line of the red hats was that there is no
>> pandemic and anyway deworming medicine will fix it? I guess the
>> second part is true, in the sense people who shit themselves to
>> death won't die of other causes.
>
> I get sick of this "deworming medicine" nonsense. The stuff is FDA
> approved for human use, it doesn't cause people to "shit themselves to
> death" and there is evidence that it can impede the replication of the
> virus. There is no evidence that it actually affects the progress of
> COVID in humans but there is no evidence that it doesn't, either. If
> in clinical trials (which are in process) it shows efficacy, you're
> going to look like a moron for sneering at it.
>
> And now, if you follow the standard pattern, you are going to call me
> names.

The problem appears to be individuals self medicating with animal
products rather than human products prescribed by doctors.

Oklahoma hospitals deluged by ivermectin overdoses, doctor says.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/04/oklahoma-doctor-ivermectin-covid-coronavirus

Titus G

unread,

Sep 5, 2021, 4:29:59 PM9/5/21

to

On 5/09/21 1:53 pm, pete...@gmail.com wrote:

snip Australian totalitarian nonsense

>
> just for info:
>
> Australia has had 1034 covid deaths over the entire pandemic.
> That's a rate of 40 deaths per million.
> The US rate is 1998 per million.
>
> Their lockdown and travel ban may be draconian, but it works.
>
> New Zealand has a rate of 5/million.

The perceived problem in New Zealand is that we do not have the
Intensive Care facilities to cope with an outbreak and that is the main
reason we are supportive of personal restrictions.
Because we are not a loony gun culture where we shoot each other and
where until recently our police were unarmed, we do not have anywhere
near the number of IC beds in proportion to population as such places as
the USA.

J. Clarke

unread,

Sep 5, 2021, 5:33:43 PM9/5/21

to

On Sun, 5 Sep 2021 16:49:39 -0000 (UTC), jdni...@panix.com (James
Nicoll) wrote:

>In article <Y16ZI.103091$T_8.1...@fx48.iad>,
>Scott Lurndal <sl...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>>J. Clarke <jclarke...@gmail.com> writes:
>>>On Sun, 5 Sep 2021 07:26:02 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
>>><rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Calling it a "horse dewormer" implies that its only on-label use is
>>>deworming horses and that there is no preparation of it that is
>>>approved for use in humans.
>>
>>They call it that because that's what people are buying at
>>Ag vet supplies and subsequently consuming, often to their
>>detriment.
>
>I think you misspelled _hilarious_ detriment. Mind you, it's
>very hard on the horses that needed that medication.

There was an article in the Washington Post this week about someone
who was in the hospital, in dire straights, what the hospital was
doing didn't seem to be working, so he got a physician to prescribe
ivermectin and the hospital refused to administer it. Ended up
getting a court order requiring that the hospital do it.

The Post didn't show a picture of prescription tablets, they showed a
picture of the veterinary preparation, and in the comments the main
topic was the stupidity of people who take horse dewormer.

Sorry, but this "horse dewormer" business stinks of propaganda.

Moriarty

unread,

Sep 5, 2021, 5:44:35 PM9/5/21

to

On Sunday, September 5, 2021 at 2:08:23 AM UTC+10, Paul S Person wrote:
> On Sat, 4 Sep 2021 05:58:10 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca>
> wrote:
> >On Saturday, September 4, 2021 at 6:54:33 AM UTC-6, Quadibloc wrote:
> >
> >> So I am going to look into this, to find out more details.
> >
> >It turns out that the only people asked to use this phone app
> >are people who have travelled from other parts of Australia;
> >it serves as an alternative to being quarantined in a hotel for
> >several days.
> >
> >Thus, this "Orwellian" claim is a complete exaggeration.
> Do we even need to ask which wingnuts are pushing this claim?

We here in Australia find it quite amusing when American RWNJs use us as an example of "dictatorship". Usually this dictatorship takes the form of us not being able to purchase automatic weaponry and massacre each other when we feel like it.

Now apparently Australians lacking the freedom Americans have to die in droves of coronavirus upsets them.

-Moriarty

Dimensional Traveler

unread,

Sep 5, 2021, 5:57:13 PM9/5/21

to

For my edification please, RWNJ means...?

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

Moriarty

unread,

Sep 5, 2021, 6:09:33 PM9/5/21

to

Right wing nutjobs.

-Moriarty

Ted Nolan <tednolan>

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Sep 5, 2021, 6:17:34 PM9/5/21

to

This turned out to be a hoax:

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1434591443855753220.html
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

pete...@gmail.com

unread,

Sep 5, 2021, 6:26:08 PM9/5/21

to

If you think a significant number of American ICU beds are there because
of gunshot injuries, you're mistaken. It sounds like 'Kiwi myths about the
US'.

https://healthtalk.org/intensive-care-patients-experiences/emergency-admissions-to-icu

pt

Jonathan

unread,

Sep 5, 2021, 7:24:43 PM9/5/21

to

On 9/5/2021 5:44 PM, Moriarty wrote:
> On Sunday, September 5, 2021 at 2:08:23 AM UTC+10, Paul S Person wrote:
>> On Sat, 4 Sep 2021 05:58:10 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca>
>> wrote:
>>> On Saturday, September 4, 2021 at 6:54:33 AM UTC-6, Quadibloc wrote:
>>>
>>>> So I am going to look into this, to find out more details.
>>>
>>> It turns out that the only people asked to use this phone app
>>> are people who have travelled from other parts of Australia;
>>> it serves as an alternative to being quarantined in a hotel for
>>> several days.
>>>
>>> Thus, this "Orwellian" claim is a complete exaggeration.
>> Do we even need to ask which wingnuts are pushing this claim?

It's still treating people like they were on probation
forcing them to wear a GPS ankle bracelet.
I'd find that objectionable as it assumes I
can't be trusted. Not to mention the old
slippery slope. Maybe the next incarnation
of such electronic monitoring won't be quite
so public safety minded?

They also have a voluntary close contact app
where it identifies everyone you come into
contact with.

COVIDSafe app

The COVIDSafe app is a tool that helps identify people
exposed to coronavirus (COVID-19).

"In many cases, people won't know the names and contact
details of everyone they’ve been in close contact with
(for example, on public transport). COVIDSafe uses
technology to make this process faster and more
accurate."

"For COVIDSafe to work, it must be running in the
background on your phone."
https://www.health.gov.au/resources/apps-and-tools/covidsafe-app

The mind reels with the possibilities for abuse
of such electronic monitoring as they are
endless.

>
> We here in Australia find it quite amusing when American RWNJs use us as an example of "dictatorship". Usually this dictatorship takes the form of us not being able to purchase automatic weaponry and massacre each other when we feel like it.
>
> Now apparently Australians lacking the freedom Americans have to die in droves of coronavirus upsets them.
>
> -Moriarty
>

The Second Amendment is at it's heart giving us
the ability to be free from govt repression.

The problem is it's far too easy for...criminals
to get guns.

--
BIG LIE From Wiki - "The German expression was coined by Adolf Hitler
when he dictated his 1925 book Mein Kampf, to describe the use of a lie
so *colossal* that no one would believe that someone "could have the
impudence to distort the truth so infamously."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_lie

Titus G

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Sep 5, 2021, 7:46:33 PM9/5/21

to

Thank you. It appears that your referenced article was written on the
3rd of September whilst the Guardian article was on the 4th. A black
mark for the Guardian - I wonder if they will publish a followup.

Titus G

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Sep 5, 2021, 7:46:33 PM9/5/21

to

Not a kiwi myth but an individual kiwi seizing an opportunity to have a dig!

Ninapenda Jibini

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Sep 5, 2021, 9:27:11 PM9/5/21

to

"Michael F. Stemper" <michael...@gmail.com> wrote in
news:sh09vd$94d$1...@dont-email.me:

> On 04/09/2021 07.58, Quadibloc wrote:
>> On Saturday, September 4, 2021 at 6:54:33 AM UTC-6, Quadibloc
>> wrote:
>
>>> So I am going to look into this, to find out more details.
>>
>> It turns out that the only people asked to use this phone app
>> are people who have travelled from other parts of Australia;
>> it serves as an alternative to being quarantined in a hotel for
>> several days.
>
> Thank you for digging up this information.
>

While I suspect he's correct, I not that, as one might expect from
Quaddie, no source is cited. We have only his word for it. And we
know what his word is(n't) worth.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Ninapenda Jibini

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Sep 5, 2021, 9:31:17 PM9/5/21

to

"pete...@gmail.com" <pete...@gmail.com> wrote in
news:82a2c4d1-c2f5-461e...@googlegroups.com:

Any numbers of how many people have died as a result of the
economic damage? Suicides, etc.

>
> New Zealand has a rate of 5/million.
>

And Sweden isn't having a third wave to speak of. In fact, for the
last two months, the 7 day running average of daily deaths has been
zero as often as it's been one.

And they still have an economy.

Without any restrictions for some time.

But nobody wants to talk about Sweden any more.

Ninapenda Jibini

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Sep 5, 2021, 9:32:28 PM9/5/21

to

Lynn McGuire <lynnmc...@gmail.com> wrote in
news:sh1fd8$1l7$1...@dont-email.me:

Vaccinations will reduce the final numbers quite a bit.

But we will *never* hear about the damage done by the lockdowns.
Not a peep. The government won't allow it.

Ninapenda Jibini

unread,

Sep 5, 2021, 9:34:51 PM9/5/21

to

"Gary R. Schmidt" <grsc...@acm.org> wrote in
news:o62e0i-...@paranoia.mcleod-schmidt.id.au:

> More sobering predictions by those in the know is that we need
> 90% vaccination of the *entire* population to be sure it won't
> exceed ICU and ventilator capacity - and /that/ presumes we
> won't have to shut down entire hospitals because the virus takes
> out most of the staff.

Ah, the joys of socialized medicine!

Ninapenda Jibini

unread,

Sep 5, 2021, 9:36:39 PM9/5/21

to

jdni...@panix.com (James Nicoll) wrote in
news:sh2fu3$cho$1...@reader1.panix.com:

Only in your diseased, propaganda fed imagination.

> I guess the
> second part is true, in the sense people who shit themselves to
> death won't die of other causes.
>

You mean the medication has has been widely used _in humans_ for
many years? By people who now have reason to avoid it in the
future, even if it means they die?

Ninapenda Jibini

unread,

Sep 5, 2021, 9:39:44 PM9/5/21

to

J. Clarke <jclarke...@gmail.com> wrote in
news:uih9jg15akn3dkjfh...@4ax.com:

The worst part is, it's a pretty effective anti-parasitic
medication, but now peopel who *need* it will be more likely to
avoid it because of the *lies*.

> There is no evidence that it
> actually affects the progress of COVID in humans but there is no
> evidence that it doesn't, either. If in clinical trials (which
> are in process) it shows efficacy, you're going to look like a
> moron for sneering at it.

Only to people with half a brain. He literally *can't* see any such
evidence. He, like many others, will hallucinate that it's not
true. Otherwise, they'll have to see the blood on their own hands.

>
> And now, if you follow the standard pattern, you are going to
> call me names.
>

I doubt if he even sees your posts any more. He's too delicate a
snowflake to be able to handle reality.

Ninapenda Jibini

unread,

Sep 5, 2021, 9:45:29 PM9/5/21

to

Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote in
news:5bafbe48-0525-4591...@googlegroups.com:

Based on a Rolling Stone story that has been so throughly debunked
the hospital in question would have a pretty strong case for libel.

Northeastern Hospital System Sequoyah has since issued the
following statement:

"Although Dr. Jason McElyea is not an employee of NHS Sequoyah, he
is affiliated with a medical staffing group that provides coverage
for our emergency room. With that said, Dr. McElyea has not worked
at our Sallisaw location in over 2 months. NHS Sequoyah has not
treated any patients due to complications related to taking
ivermectin. This includes not treating any patients for ivermectin
overdose. All patients who have visited our emergency room have
received medical attention as appropriate. Our hospital has not had
to turn away any patients seeking emergency care. We want to
reassure our community that our staff is working hard to provide
quality healthcare to all patients. We appreciate the opportunity
to clarify this issue and as always, we value our community’s
support."

https://fox59.com/news/gunshot-victims-left-to-wait-as-oklahoma-
hospitals-overwhelmed-with-horse-dewormer-overdoses-doctor-says/

https://tinyurl.com/7yyd6a8e

In other words, either the doctor they quoted (who hasn't worked at
that hospital for two months) outright *lied*, or Rolling Stone
did.
>
> https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/why-you-should-not

> -use-ivermectin-treat-or-prevent-covid-19
>
> "You are not a horse. You are not a cow." (not on the page
> but evidently a summary of it)

As Clarke pointed out - in what you replied to - it's FDA approved
for human use.

So, like the CDC, the FDA can't keep its narrative straight.

Ninapenda Jibini

unread,

Sep 5, 2021, 9:47:20 PM9/5/21

to

sc...@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote in news:Y16ZI.103091$T_
8.10...@fx48.iad:

unread,

Sep 5, 2021, 9:51:15 PM9/5/21

to

Titus G <no...@nowhere.com> wrote in
news:sh39c0$uh5$1...@dont-email.me:

Based on a thoroughly debunked Rolling Stone article with claims
made by a doctor who has not worked in the hospital in question for
at least two months, and which has not treated a *single* case of
ivermectin overdose, or turned away a single patient.

Quadibloc

unread,

Sep 5, 2021, 9:51:25 PM9/5/21

to

On Sunday, September 5, 2021 at 7:34:05 AM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:

> And now, if you follow the standard pattern, you are going to call me
> names.

I'd rather thank you for letting me know how this idea of using
ivermectin got started. So it does actually show enough promise
that there's still some legitimate research looking into it.

That still doesn't make it not irresponsible to encourage people
to try it on their own - especially without information on how much
less the dosage for humans needs to be, compared to that in the
horse medicine they can get their hands on.

But that does make it less bad than continuing to recommend
hydroxychloroquine - which had also been legitimately investigated -
_after_ it was learned that, no, it wasn't any good.

John Savard

Ninapenda Jibini

unread,

Sep 5, 2021, 9:52:41 PM9/5/21

to

Titus G <no...@nowhere.com> wrote in

news:sh39bv$uh6$1...@dont-email.me:

The joys of socialized medicine, where the government decides who
much your life is worth without consulting you.

Dimensional Traveler

unread,

Sep 5, 2021, 9:54:57 PM9/5/21

to

Thank you.

J. Clarke

unread,

Sep 5, 2021, 10:25:57 PM9/5/21

to

On Sun, 5 Sep 2021 18:47:52 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca>
wrote:

Who has said that doctors aren't willing to prescribe a safe human
dose?

Ninapenda Jibini

unread,

Sep 5, 2021, 11:17:20 PM9/5/21

to

J. Clarke <jclarke...@gmail.com> wrote in

news:d0vajg5gpo4ucj4rt...@4ax.com:

Certainly not the doctors who are, in fact, prescribing a safe human
dose, and helping family members sue hospitals who refuse to
administer it.

Ninapenda Jibini

unread,

Sep 5, 2021, 11:20:01 PM9/5/21

to

Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in
news:78d60555-17cc-4037...@googlegroups.com:

> That still doesn't make it not irresponsible to encourage people
> to try it on their own - especially without information on how
> much less the dosage for humans needs to be, compared to that in
> the horse medicine they can get their hands on.

Then people who insist on calling it a "horse dewormer" should stop
doing so by insisting on calling it a "horse dewormer," thus implying
it's not approved for human use by the FDA. And hospitals should stop
refusing to administer a *safe* does when they _have a prescription_
from a license physician.

>
> But that does make it less bad than continuing to recommend
> hydroxychloroquine - which had also been legitimately
> investigated - _after_ it was learned that, no, it wasn't any
> good.
>

Nice attempt to change the subject so you look less wrong (and
stupid).

pete...@gmail.com

unread,

Sep 5, 2021, 11:45:45 PM9/5/21

to

On Sunday, September 5, 2021 at 9:27:11 PM UTC-4, Ninapenda Jibini wrote:
> "Michael F. Stemper" <michael...@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:sh09vd$94d$1...@dont-email.me:
> > On 04/09/2021 07.58, Quadibloc wrote:
> >> On Saturday, September 4, 2021 at 6:54:33 AM UTC-6, Quadibloc
> >> wrote:
> >
> >>> So I am going to look into this, to find out more details.
> >>
> >> It turns out that the only people asked to use this phone app
> >> are people who have travelled from other parts of Australia;
> >> it serves as an alternative to being quarantined in a hotel for
> >> several days.
> >
> > Thank you for digging up this information.
> >
> While I suspect he's correct, I not that, as one might expect from
> Quaddie, no source is cited. We have only his word for it. And we
> know what his word is(n't) worth.

Quaddie sometimes publishes sources, if only for songs.

However, I'm perfectly capable of using Google, and quickly found
that this story is false. There is a 'CovidSafe' app in Australia, but
its a proximity based possible-contact tracker, similar to that seen in
many places, including the US.

Here's a story about the hoax:

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-australian-coronavirus-app/false-claim-australian-coronavirus-app-checks-how-far-you-travel-from-home-idUSKBN22G2NY

pt

J. Clarke

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Sep 5, 2021, 11:56:47 PM9/5/21

to

On Sun, 5 Sep 2021 20:45:42 -0700 (PDT), "pete...@gmail.com"
<pete...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sunday, September 5, 2021 at 9:27:11 PM UTC-4, Ninapenda Jibini wrote:
>> "Michael F. Stemper" <michael...@gmail.com> wrote in
>> news:sh09vd$94d$1...@dont-email.me:
>> > On 04/09/2021 07.58, Quadibloc wrote:
>> >> On Saturday, September 4, 2021 at 6:54:33 AM UTC-6, Quadibloc
>> >> wrote:
>> >
>> >>> So I am going to look into this, to find out more details.
>> >>
>> >> It turns out that the only people asked to use this phone app
>> >> are people who have travelled from other parts of Australia;
>> >> it serves as an alternative to being quarantined in a hotel for
>> >> several days.
>> >
>> > Thank you for digging up this information.
>> >
>> While I suspect he's correct, I not that, as one might expect from
>> Quaddie, no source is cited. We have only his word for it. And we
>> know what his word is(n't) worth.
>
>Quaddie sometimes publishes sources, if only for songs.
>
>However, I'm perfectly capable of using Google, and quickly found
>that this story is false. There is a 'CovidSafe' app in Australia, but
>its a proximity based possible-contact tracker, similar to that seen in
>many places, including the US.

You found the wrong app. CovidSAFE is something different from what
is being discussed.

>Here's a story about the hoax:
>
>https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-australian-coronavirus-app/false-claim-australian-coronavirus-app-checks-how-far-you-travel-from-home-idUSKBN22G2NY
>

And here's a story about the reality.

<https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-23/how-will-south-australias-home-quarantine-trial-work/100398878>

J. Clarke

unread,

Sep 6, 2021, 12:09:43 AM9/6/21

to

And the official government page.
<https://www.covid-19.sa.gov.au/home-quarantine-app/home-quarantine-sa-user-faqs>

unread,

Sep 6, 2021, 2:50:51 AM9/6/21

to

"pete...@gmail.com" <pete...@gmail.com> wrote in
news:30e9e5a5-87ce-4968...@googlegroups.com:

> On Sunday, September 5, 2021 at 9:27:11 PM UTC-4, Ninapenda
> Jibini wrote:
>> "Michael F. Stemper" <michael...@gmail.com> wrote in
>> news:sh09vd$94d$1...@dont-email.me:
>> > On 04/09/2021 07.58, Quadibloc wrote:
>> >> On Saturday, September 4, 2021 at 6:54:33 AM UTC-6,
>> >> Quadibloc wrote:
>> >
>> >>> So I am going to look into this, to find out more details.
>> >>
>> >> It turns out that the only people asked to use this phone
>> >> app are people who have travelled from other parts of
>> >> Australia; it serves as an alternative to being quarantined
>> >> in a hotel for several days.
>> >
>> > Thank you for digging up this information.
>> >
>> While I suspect he's correct, I not that, as one might expect
>> from Quaddie, no source is cited. We have only his word for it.
>> And we know what his word is(n't) worth.
>
> Quaddie sometimes publishes sources, if only for songs.

And as often as not, they don't say what he claimes they say.
(Which is, of course, better than some here, who cite sources that
*never* say what they claim.)

>
> However, I'm perfectly capable of using Google,

I'm quite proficient with it. I just don't care enough about
anything Quaddie says to bother. If *he* doesn't care enough about
being believed, I certainly don't.

Ninapenda Jibini

unread,

Sep 6, 2021, 2:52:07 AM9/6/21

to

"Gary R. Schmidt" <grsc...@acm.org> wrote in

news:98ig0i-...@paranoia.mcleod-schmidt.id.au:

And their conclusions are, let me guess, that it was all worthwhile
and saved human civilization, right?

>
> The various State Premiers and Chief Ministers, and Scotty from
> Marketing, talk about it, often at length, in their daily
> briefings.
>
> So it's not being hidden, or avoided.

Being lied about amounts to the same thing.

Ninapenda Jibini

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Sep 6, 2021, 2:52:47 AM9/6/21

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"Gary R. Schmidt" <grsc...@acm.org> wrote in news:aaig0i-iir.ln1
@paranoia.mcleod-schmidt.id.au:

> On 06/09/2021 11:34, Ninapenda Jibini wrote:
>> "Gary R. Schmidt" <grsc...@acm.org> wrote in
>> news:o62e0i-...@paranoia.mcleod-schmidt.id.au:
>>
>>> More sobering predictions by those in the know is that we need
>>> 90% vaccination of the *entire* population to be sure it won't
>>> exceed ICU and ventilator capacity - and /that/ presumes we
>>> won't have to shut down entire hospitals because the virus takes
>>> out most of the staff.
>>
>> Ah, the joys of socialized medicine!
>>
> Yes, we like to keep our people alive.

And firmly under the hobnail boots.

>
> Must be a strange concept to a USAian.
>

Live on your knees or die on your feet. Only cowards find that to be
a simple question.

Chrysi Cat

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Sep 6, 2021, 2:54:40 AM9/6/21

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On 9/5/2021 7:31 PM, Ninapenda Jibini wrote:
> "pete...@gmail.com" <pete...@gmail.com> wrote in

> news:82a2c4d1-c2f5-461e...@googlegroups.com:

> Any numbers of how many people have died as a result of the
> economic damage? Suicides, etc.

>>
>> New Zealand has a rate of 5/million.
>>

>>> But we will *never* hear about the damage done by the
>>> lockdowns. Not a peep. The government won't allow it.
>>>
>> *Your* government might not allow it, but it's being discussed
>> here in Australia, over various channels, from the populist
>> 6:00pm news-and-entertainment shows and tabloids to the serious
>> in-depth-journalism programs and what's left of the broadsheets.
>
> And their conclusions are, let me guess, that it was all worthwhile
> and saved human civilization, right?

Hmm, maybe yes, maybe no. They're pollies, are you really that thick
that you expect a straight answer??

>>
>> The various State Premiers and Chief Ministers, and Scotty from
>> Marketing, talk about it, often at length, in their daily
>> briefings.
>>
>> So it's not being hidden, or avoided.
>
> Being lied about amounts to the same thing.
>

Ah, of course, the old, "How do you tell when a politician is lying?
Their mouth is moving" gag.

Get some fresh material, monkey boy.

Gary R. Schmidt

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Sep 6, 2021, 9:04:08 AM9/6/21

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I doubt Terry could stand in front of a bunch of Maori doing a *real*
haka without shitting his pants.

He probably wouldn't be able to handle the kiddies doing a "Welcome to
our whare*" haka, anyway.

Cheers,
Gary B-)

* - Probably the wrong word, house, vilage, I think.

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Sep 6, 2021, 12:49:56 PM9/6/21

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On Monday, 6 September 2021 at 00:24:43 UTC+1, Jonathan wrote:
> On 9/5/2021 5:44 PM, Moriarty wrote:
> > On Sunday, September 5, 2021 at 2:08:23 AM UTC+10, Paul S Person wrote:

> >> On Sat, 4 Sep 2021 05:58:10 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca>
> >> wrote:
> >>> On Saturday, September 4, 2021 at 6:54:33 AM UTC-6, Quadibloc wrote:
> >>>

> >>>> So I am going to look into this, to find out more details.
> >>>

> >>> It turns out that the only people asked to use this phone app
> >>> are people who have travelled from other parts of Australia;
> >>> it serves as an alternative to being quarantined in a hotel for
> >>> several days.
> >>>

> >>> Thus, this "Orwellian" claim is a complete exaggeration.
> >> Do we even need to ask which wingnuts are pushing this claim?
> It's still treating people like they were on probation
> forcing them to wear a GPS ankle bracelet.
> I'd find that objectionable as it assumes I
> can't be trusted. Not to mention the old
> slippery slope. Maybe the next incarnation
> of such electronic monitoring won't be quite
> so public safety minded?
>
> They also have a voluntary close contact app
> where it identifies everyone you come into
> contact with.
>
>
> COVIDSafe app
>
> The COVIDSafe app is a tool that helps identify people
> exposed to coronavirus (COVID-19).
>
> "In many cases, people won't know the names and contact
> details of everyone they’ve been in close contact with
> (for example, on public transport). COVIDSafe uses
> technology to make this process faster and more
> accurate."
>
> "For COVIDSafe to work, it must be running in the
> background on your phone."
> https://www.health.gov.au/resources/apps-and-tools/covidsafe-app

I am having a bit of trouble deciphering this.
https://covidsafe.gov.au/privacy-policy.html

It seems to be referring to the new built-in "Android" and
"iOS" phone function of detecting other phones that are
nearby, but also bypassing its privacy protection, which
Google and Apple usually would not allow.

As one element, I was under the impression that this
system makes every phone identify itself with a random
code number which is changed every 15 minutes.
And as far as I remember, the app that I use in Scotland
doesn't know who I am. How it goes is, if I get tested
positive for SARS 2, then I have a test ID number which
I input or scan into the app. Then all of the random
numbers that my phone used recently are transmitted
to the "people who are infected" database. Meanwhile,
your app downloads the "new infected people" random
numbers several times a day, and compares the download
to the random numbers that your phone has been close
to in the last - two weeks? Around that. So then, your app
knows if you have met infected people, but it does not
know who.

But for the Australian one, it says, "The encrypted user ID
will be created every 7 days". And if they need to, they'll
phone you.

Maybe that is what they /intended/ to do, but not what
they can do?

Ninapenda Jibini

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Sep 6, 2021, 1:10:57 PM9/6/21

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Sep 6, 2021, 1:19:39 PM9/6/21

to

Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in
news:05b4e6b7-da5f-4e5b...@googlegroups.com:

Slaves often laugh in the face of their despair. It's still not a
siple question, and you know it. You're just not allowed to say so.

Ninapenda Jibini

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Sep 6, 2021, 1:25:02 PM9/6/21

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Paul S Person <pspe...@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote in
news:g2dcjghq4h537kldn...@4ax.com:

> On Mon, 06 Sep 2021 01:34:48 GMT, Ninapenda Jibini
> <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>"Gary R. Schmidt" <grsc...@acm.org> wrote in
>>news:o62e0i-...@paranoia.mcleod-schmidt.id.au:
>>
>>> More sobering predictions by those in the know is that we need
>>> 90% vaccination of the *entire* population to be sure it won't
>>> exceed ICU and ventilator capacity - and /that/ presumes we
>>> won't have to shut down entire hospitals because the virus
>>> takes out most of the staff.
>>
>>Ah, the joys of socialized medicine!
>
> We're having the same problem.
>
> The number of hospital beds and ICUs available is dropping.
>
> The point of Italian triage is approaching, although we may luck
> out once again.

Italy is a textbook example of why it's a bad idea to give a lazy,
incompetent and corrupt government control over healt card.

>
> And our health workers are getting /very/ tired of it all, and
> have the right to vote with their feet.
>
> Socialized medicine isn't the problem, although it clearly isn't
> the solution either.

In Italy, the government is the problem.

But, while some areas, mostly rural with limited hospital
facilities (because the market isn't big enough to support more)
are very stressed, and running short of ICU beds, the country,
overall, is not. (And new daily cases overall are running a *lot*
less - less than half - what they were at the peak in January. And
shortages of care are more likely to be because the hospitals treat
their staff like shit, and said staff has, in fact, voted with
their feet. But most of the stories about shortages are just that -
stories, made up by someone with an agenda. Like the one from
Oklahoma.)

Ninapenda Jibini

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Sep 6, 2021, 1:27:47 PM9/6/21

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Paul S Person <pspe...@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote in

news:qidcjg9iqapcvbkq1...@4ax.com:

> On Mon, 06 Sep 2021 03:19:57 GMT, Ninapenda Jibini
> <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in
>>news:78d60555-17cc-4037...@googlegroups.com:
>>
>>> That still doesn't make it not irresponsible to encourage
>>> people to try it on their own - especially without information
>>> on how much less the dosage for humans needs to be, compared
>>> to that in the horse medicine they can get their hands on.
>>
>>Then people who insist on calling it a "horse dewormer" should
>>stop doing so by insisting on calling it a "horse dewormer,"
>>thus implying it's not approved for human use by the FDA. And
>>hospitals should stop refusing to administer a *safe* does when
>>they _have a prescription_ from a license physician.
>
> It /is/ a horse dewormer,

It is not *only* a horse dewormer, and it *is* approved for use on
humans.

> and far too many people are buying it
> in that form.

Because of the lies told to convince people there was no other way
to get it. *Deliberate* *lies*.

>
> But it is /also/ approved for a few human diseases, and some
> people are using it, properly prescribed and dispensed, in
> /that/ form.

Even when they have to sue hospitals to do so.

>
> Which can produce overdose problems, it appears.

Not when used according to the label. People who self medicate,
believing they have no other choice (because of the lies) use
dosages intended for animals with a lot more body mass (and are
idiots).

> Calls to poison
> hotlines on the topic are said to be up, although, since it was
> like "1 by now last year, 8 this year", I'm not sure that this
> qualifies as a crisis yet.

And, of course, you can't actually provide a source (other than a
thoroughly debunked fake story from Rolling Stone) that says that a
single one of them was from a prescription by a licensed doctor.

Because there isn't one.

Quadibloc

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Sep 6, 2021, 4:14:15 PM9/6/21

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On Monday, September 6, 2021 at 6:59:09 AM UTC-6, grschm...@gmail.com wrote:

> Hey, most of our population vote, if it suits us, whate's your problem?

I thought voting was compulsory in Australia. Or did they phase that out?

John Savard

J. Clarke

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Sep 6, 2021, 5:33:36 PM9/6/21

to

On Mon, 6 Sep 2021 13:14:12 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca>
wrote:

>On Monday, September 6, 2021 at 6:59:09 AM UTC-6, grschm...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Hey, most of our population vote, if it suits us, whate's your problem?
>
>I thought voting was compulsory in Australia. Or did they phase that out?

What do they do if you don't vote?

I would not favor such a system unless "shoot all of the above" was
one of the options on the ballot.

Quadibloc

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Sep 6, 2021, 6:09:20 PM9/6/21

to

On Monday, September 6, 2021 at 3:33:36 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
> On Mon, 6 Sep 2021 13:14:12 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca>
> wrote:

> >I thought voting was compulsory in Australia. Or did they phase that out?

> What do they do if you don't vote?

I believe there is a fine. However, there was also a religious exemption.

John Savard

Paul S Person

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Sep 7, 2021, 11:24:22 AM9/7/21

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On Mon, 06 Sep 2021 17:24:56 GMT, Ninapenda Jibini

<taus...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Paul S Person <pspe...@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote in
>news:g2dcjghq4h537kldn...@4ax.com:
>
>> On Mon, 06 Sep 2021 01:34:48 GMT, Ninapenda Jibini
>> <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>"Gary R. Schmidt" <grsc...@acm.org> wrote in
>>>news:o62e0i-...@paranoia.mcleod-schmidt.id.au:
>>>
>>>> More sobering predictions by those in the know is that we need
>>>> 90% vaccination of the *entire* population to be sure it won't
>>>> exceed ICU and ventilator capacity - and /that/ presumes we
>>>> won't have to shut down entire hospitals because the virus
>>>> takes out most of the staff.
>>>
>>>Ah, the joys of socialized medicine!
>>
>> We're having the same problem.
>>
>> The number of hospital beds and ICUs available is dropping.
>>
>> The point of Italian triage is approaching, although we may luck
>> out once again.
>
>Italy is a textbook example of why it's a bad idea to give a lazy,
>incompetent and corrupt government control over healt card.
>>
>> And our health workers are getting /very/ tired of it all, and
>> have the right to vote with their feet.
>>
>> Socialized medicine isn't the problem, although it clearly isn't
>> the solution either.
>
>In Italy, the government is the problem.

Can't argue with that, after the mess they made of a simple murder
investigation. Italian Light Opera at its most entertaining.

Yet 52% of Texans appear to have concluded that /their/ gummint is the
problem. Or, more properly, their governor, as in heading in the wrong
direction.

I don't know if anybody's even bother to ask Floridians how they feel.

So problematic governments are not the problem either. Although they
certainly don't help matters.

>But, while some areas, mostly rural with limited hospital
>facilities (because the market isn't big enough to support more)
>are very stressed, and running short of ICU beds, the country,
>overall, is not. (And new daily cases overall are running a *lot*
>less - less than half - what they were at the peak in January. And
>shortages of care are more likely to be because the hospitals treat
>their staff like shit, and said staff has, in fact, voted with
>their feet. But most of the stories about shortages are just that -
>stories, made up by someone with an agenda. Like the one from
>Oklahoma.)

IIRC, a while back, what sounded like about a third of Texas had its
ICU beds filled. And not rural Texas, either. But perhaps my memory is
exaggerating.

I still remember an official of one State (I don't recall which)
stating that they had added a very large number of ICU beds at great
expense and effort after the first wave, and it bought them ... one
more day before the ICU beds were exhausted in the latest wave (second
or third, as we appear to be in the fourth, although, really, counting
seems pointless).

Paul S Person

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Sep 7, 2021, 11:26:40 AM9/7/21

to

The last story I saw on /that/ topic was about a Judge who would /not/
order a hospital to dispense ivermectin to a patient, no matter how
hard his wife pleaded. This was properly-prescribed and dispensed
ivermectin, too, so presumably formulated for humans.

Paul S Person

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Sep 7, 2021, 11:35:32 AM9/7/21

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On Mon, 06 Sep 2021 17:27:43 GMT, Ninapenda Jibini

<taus...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Paul S Person <pspe...@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote in
>news:qidcjg9iqapcvbkq1...@4ax.com:
>
>> On Mon, 06 Sep 2021 03:19:57 GMT, Ninapenda Jibini
>> <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in
>>>news:78d60555-17cc-4037...@googlegroups.com:
>>>
>>>> That still doesn't make it not irresponsible to encourage
>>>> people to try it on their own - especially without information
>>>> on how much less the dosage for humans needs to be, compared
>>>> to that in the horse medicine they can get their hands on.
>>>
>>>Then people who insist on calling it a "horse dewormer" should
>>>stop doing so by insisting on calling it a "horse dewormer,"
>>>thus implying it's not approved for human use by the FDA. And
>>>hospitals should stop refusing to administer a *safe* does when
>>>they _have a prescription_ from a license physician.
>>
>> It /is/ a horse dewormer,
>
>It is not *only* a horse dewormer, and it *is* approved for use on
>humans.

Had you waited to read the next paragraph, you would have seen that I
am agreeing with you.

It is both.

There are two forms. Well, there may be lots of forms, but what
matters here is that the form(s) for livestock are /not/ the same as
that (those) for humans.

>> and far too many people are buying it
>> in that form.
>
>Because of the lies told to convince people there was no other way
>to get it. *Deliberate* *lies*.

What lies? Lies that it would cure/prevent/ameliorate/at least not
encourage COVID-19?

Did anyone claim it /couldn't/ be obtained from a doctor, at least in
theory? I mean, of course, anyone /other than/ a Republican/alt-right
fearmonger.

>> But it is /also/ approved for a few human diseases, and some
>> people are using it, properly prescribed and dispensed, in
>> /that/ form.
>
>Even when they have to sue hospitals to do so.

Not for the diseases it's approved for.

And hospitals get sued on all sorts of issues. Mostly involving
religious restrictions they don't want to honor.

>> Which can produce overdose problems, it appears.
>
>Not when used according to the label. People who self medicate,
>believing they have no other choice (because of the lies) use
>dosages intended for animals with a lot more body mass (and are
>idiots).

If you say so. I haven't read a drug lable for a long time, because I
Just Say No to drugs. All drugs. Minimal exceptions.

>> Calls to poison
>> hotlines on the topic are said to be up, although, since it was
>> like "1 by now last year, 8 this year", I'm not sure that this
>> qualifies as a crisis yet.
>
>And, of course, you can't actually provide a source (other than a
>thoroughly debunked fake story from Rolling Stone) that says that a
>single one of them was from a prescription by a licensed doctor.

I don't recall the article, or myself, claiming they were properly
prescribed.

Although the "1 last year" probably was, since the
Republican/alt-right wingnuts weren't promoting it then.

>Because there isn't one.

I wouldn't be too sure of that. But I'm not going to waste my time
trying to find one.

My point, after all, was that going from, say 1 to 8 is certainly a
very large percentage increase, but hardly large enough to be a
"crisis".

pete...@gmail.com

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Sep 7, 2021, 2:04:27 PM9/7/21

to

Honestly, you guys remind me of the medieval scholars said to have
argued over the number of teeth in a horse, when all they had to do
was go down to the stable and count.

You *could* consider using Google, as could Terry.

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/09/04/1034217306/ivermectin-overdose-exposure-cases-poison-control-centers"
based on this infographic:
https://piper.filecamp.com/uniq/ZO3aGrYGXdIUhiJ7.pdf

"Poison control centers are seeing a dramatic surge in calls from people
who are self-medicating with ivermectin, an anti-parasite drug for animals
that some falsely claim treats COVID-19.

According to the National Poison Data System (NPDS), which collects
information from the nation's 55 poison control centers, there was a 245%
jump in reported exposure cases from July to August — from 133 to 459. "

Apparently, even in America, not enough people are terminally dumb enough
to try this in any significant numbers.

pt

Torbjorn Lindgren

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Sep 7, 2021, 5:05:13 PM9/7/21

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Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
>On Monday, 6 September 2021 at 00:24:43 UTC+1, Jonathan wrote:
>> "For COVIDSafe to work, it must be running in the
>> background on your phone."
>> https://www.health.gov.au/resources/apps-and-tools/covidsafe-app
>
>I am having a bit of trouble deciphering this.
>https://covidsafe.gov.au/privacy-policy.html
>
>It seems to be referring to the new built-in "Android" and
>"iOS" phone function of detecting other phones that are
>nearby, but also bypassing its privacy protection, which
>Google and Apple usually would not allow.

There's a number of clues in that document that they're not using that
Google/Apple Covid API.

This allows them to collect much more data, but causes them various
problems like much worse precision on location! and much worse battery
usage. A lot of countries initially did this, almost all quickly
switched to using the API.

The other problem that homegrown approaches always run into is that
Apple is really strict about what kind and how much stuff can be done
when the application is running in the background. This doesn't matter
at all when using the Covid-tracking APIs because the OS handles all
that for the app (both Android and iOS).

The Privacy Policy documents that when the app is in the background on
Apple devices it won't detect other Apple devices that are also in the
background, unless "helped" by a nearby Android device using their
"herald" technology (you can almost hear the TM). Yup, confirms that
they're definitely not using the Covid API.

Google has relatively little restrictions on what an app can do as
LONG as you don't use the Covid API, combined with the description of
their partial "workaround" we can draw pretty firm conclusions on how
the apps works on the two platforms:

The Android app will "beacon" at regular interval, even when it's in
the background (allowed since they're not using the API).

The Apple app will "beacon" when in the foreground (rare!) OR when it
receives a beacon, whether from an Apple or Android app. Hence the
restriction on "background to background" detection because in that
case neither of the apps are allowed to "beacon".

>As one element, I was under the impression that this
>system makes every phone identify itself with a random
>code number which is changed every 15 minutes.
>And as far as I remember, the app that I use in Scotland
>doesn't know who I am. How it goes is, if I get tested
>positive for SARS 2, then I have a test ID number which
>I input or scan into the app. Then all of the random
>numbers that my phone used recently are transmitted
>to the "people who are infected" database. Meanwhile,
>your app downloads the "new infected people" random
>numbers several times a day, and compares the download
>to the random numbers that your phone has been close
>to in the last - two weeks? Around that. So then, your app
>knows if you have met infected people, but it does not
>know who.

Yup, that's how the apps that uses the Covid API's work. With some
very minor difference in implementation.

>But for the Australian one, it says, "The encrypted user ID
>will be created every 7 days". And if they need to, they'll
>phone you.
>
>Maybe that is what they /intended/ to do, but not what
>they can do?

It's pretty clear that it's not using the Google/Apple Covid APIs, so
there's no reason they can't do what they say.

Titus G

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Sep 8, 2021, 2:57:35 AM9/8/21

to

I am not a patient with A problem. In this country of socialised
medicine, you need a lot more than just one problem to get attention,
(and free hospital meals and your own tv remote), for treatment. There
are only seven deadly sins and even in a small country like New Zealand,
that is not enough to go around so we all have lots of mental problems
but we are not allowed exposure to Covid19 variety whatever.

>
>> Do you have a reputable reference for those claims? Because no
>> matter how often I throw these chicken bones, they suggest
>> otherwise. They keep saying that a being with two legs can have
>> mad cow disease. My sympathy.
>>
> If you're too fucking lazy to spent five seconds googling
> "ivermectin lawsuit", you clearly choose to remain ignorant.

Ignorance is bliss. I am so ignorant I have been spelling it invermectin
instead of ivermectin. To maintain my blissful lazy innocence I avoided
Google but did read the following:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/sep/07/ivermectin-ohio-judge-reverses-court-order-covid-patient

But was disappointed to read the following which is truly scary and more
worthy of attention than head lice treatment.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/sep/07/us-covid-patients-hospitals-surge