***Proposal: alt.fan.peter-david***
Elayne Wechsler-Chaput
this one as well (what can I say, Sergio talked me into it...:). But I
would suggest NOT posting on alt.config just yet, since that's more for
the technical aspects of why a newsgroup should be started than for the
"yes, me too" kind of responses that this proposal is likely to
engender. We don't want to flood alt.config with non-substantive stuff,
or they might not look too kindly on this... so let's keep the discussion
primarily in these newsgroups for awhile, okay? :)
- Elayne
--
"I am de Head of de Fireheads. I am de Head Firehead. I am de #~~
Firehead Head..." (E-Mail me for more information about the )#(
official Firesign Theatre newsletter, Four-Alarm FIRESIGNal!) ( # )
^^^
ortman
-Dave
Mitch White
I don't think he'd want to support such butt-kissing and idol making
It's better just to respect the man for his work, which is pretty good.
Of course, if PAD likes the idea, go ahead.
John P. LaRocque
Sergio Fedasz <ser...@uclink2.berkeley.edu, fire...@panix.com> wrote:
>I am one of many people trying to create a Peter David newsgroup.
>So far the progress has been to propose it in the "alt.config" newsgroup.
Try the alt.hierarchy. They like to play fast and loose in creating
newsgroups there, and this is definitely not big-7 material.
>The next step is to try to prove that there is a demand and a need for
>this newsgroup. This means that all that you Peter David fans have to do
>is voice your support for the alt.fan.peter-david newsgroup in this
>newsgroup or (if you want to really to go the extra mile) in alt.config
>If enough support is shown, the newsgroup administrators will check the
>responses and then decide if the newsgroup is a good idea. That means
>that all you Peter David fans have to let yourselves be known.
If Peter David disappeared from the net, less people would purposely
look for his posts (because they aren't there). People would treat
a Peter David work in their respective newsgroups, be they comic books,
Star Trek novelizations or Babylon 5 scripts. I find it hard to treat
him as an auteur, since most of the works bearing his name are the
intellectual property of other people.
>If you don't quite know who Peter David is...he has written comic books
>(Incredible Hulk, Aquaman), alternative comics (Soulsearchers and
>Company), Babylon 5 episodes, Star Trek novels (Q-Squared), movies,
>and much more.
Far be it for me to criticize what puts the bread on the table, but
almost all of his works are from licensed properties. Exceptions include
two novels (Knight Life, Howling Mad), and handful of comic-related works
(CBG, Soulsearchers, Sachs & Violens).
I personally view this newsgroup proposal as a bad idea, and would
only regard its legitimacy if Peter David himself newgrouped it
in control.
>Sergio
--
|----\___ John P. LaRocque (lar...@gaul.csd.uwo.ca)
********]|-----|___\__________
********]|_______>___________/ "There are those who believe
|_____ / that life here began out there..."
Scott Hollifield
: Peter David is just a human being.
: I don't think he'd want to support such butt-kissing and idol making
: It's better just to respect the man for his work, which is pretty good.
: Of course, if PAD likes the idea, go ahead.
Butt-kisser!
--
Scott Hollifield * sco...@cris.com * http://www.cris.com/~scotth/
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
"No one owns life, but anyone who can pick up a frying pan owns death."
-- William S. Burroughs
David Alan Carr
>Peter David is just a human being.
>I don't think he'd want to support such butt-kissing and idol making
>It's better just to respect the man for his work, which is pretty good.
>Of course, if PAD likes the idea, go ahead.
It doesn't make a difference whether or not he wants it.
It's not butt-kissing and idol making, it's a chance for fans of the man's
writing to partake in a dialogue outside of the confines of rac.*
Frankly, if there's a alt.fan.marcia-clark, the world should have alt.PAD.
alt.fan.seBADog
--
LISTEN TO THIS MUSIC: Sebadoh, Wally Pleasant, Hater, Mr. Bungle, Bad
Religion, 311, Afghan Whigs, Therapy?, Goober and the Peas, Cake, Jeff
Buckley, God Lives Underwater, G. Love and Special Sauce, Archers of Loaf,
Everclear, NOFX, Rage Against the Machine, Rollins Band, and 4.5 FL. OZ.!
Charles M Seaton
inclined towards alt.fan* groups lately - witness the
a.f.mandy-patinkin mess. I doubt that this group could get
worthwhile propigation.
Nor am I sure that there's enough demand. And the way to show
demand is NOT via an endless "me-too" thread; it's either by showing
a very large proportion of PAD-related posts in existing newsgroups
(I don't think you have enough, personally), or by starting a
mailing list and seeing how successful that is.
Right now I'm against this proposal, but if a mailing list is
started, and becomes successful enough to be awkward as a mailing
list, then I might change my mind. I think you'll find that a lot
of alt.config regulars share my opinion.
Yours,
--Ennead
Johanna Draper
Elayne Wechsler-Chaput <fire...@panix.com> wrote:
>John P. LaRocque (lar...@gaul.csd.uwo.ca) wrote:
>: Far be it for me to criticize what puts the bread on the table, but
>: almost all of his works are from licensed properties. Exceptions include
>: two novels (Knight Life, Howling Mad), and handful of comic-related works
>: (CBG, Soulsearchers, Sachs & Violens).
>
>participation in a newsgroup discussing the work of someone who writes
>primarily for licensed properties - a very interesting angle to
>consider. Question, though - does that mean you don't believe these
>licensed properties (Star Trek, Bab5, etc.) should have their own
>newsgroups (which of course they do, and which are very active) either?
I agree with John on this one. In my opinion, something written for a
licensed property (lp) by a certain author has more in common with other
"pieces" of that lp than with other works by that author (due to the
characteristics of the media -- tv and comics -- we're primarily talking
about).
And I've trimmed the newsgroup line somewhat, to keep this from being too
similar to spam. :)
Johanna
Arnoud Galactus Engelfriet
In article <3opf4n$f...@acmey.gatech.edu>,
gt8...@prism.gatech.edu (David Alan Carr) wrote:
>
> Frankly, if there's a alt.fan.marcia-clark, the world should have alt.PAD.
That's about the worst argument in favour of a group you can
give. If you go to alt.config, make sure you DON'T make this
remark, or your proposal will be denied immediately.
Galactus
"The fact that some bozo managed to get alt.wesley.crusher.die.die.die
created does not justify any other group creation"
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****** To find out more about PGP, send mail with subject HELP PGP to me ******
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David Alan Carr
>gt8...@prism.gatech.edu (David Alan Carr) wrote:
>> Frankly, if there's a alt.fan.marcia-clark, the world should have alt.PAD.
>That's about the worst argument in favour of a group you can
>give. If you go to alt.config, make sure you DON'T make this
>remark, or your proposal will be denied immediately.
Now hold on a second, son. You misunderdstood. What I meant was that if
something so ridiculus and malignant as a.f.marcia-clark can be approved,
then the boys in favor of alt.PAD should have no problem getting their group.
I in no way support anything that promotes the anti-judicial circus
the OJ Simpson trial has become.
alt.fan.seBADog.
Kathlene Whitmore
Fedasz) writes:
>
>I am one of many people trying to create a Peter David newsgroup.
>So far the progress has been to propose it in the "alt.config"
newsgroup.
>
>this newsgroup. This means that all that you Peter David fans have to
do
>is voice your support for the alt.fan.peter-david newsgroup in this
>newsgroup or (if you want to really to go the extra mile) in
alt.config
>If enough support is shown, the newsgroup administrators will check
the
>responses and then decide if the newsgroup is a good idea. That means
>that all you Peter David fans have to let yourselves be known.
>
>If you don't quite know who Peter David is...he has written comic
books
>(Incredible Hulk, Aquaman), alternative comics (Soulsearchers and
>Company), Babylon 5 episodes, Star Trek novels (Q-Squared), movies,
>and much more.
>
>Thanks.
>
>
>--
>Sergio
>
You can count me in for supporting a Peter David newsgroup!
Kathie
OSh...@ix.netcom.com
Elayne Wechsler-Chaput
: Peter David is just a human being.
: I don't think he'd want to support such butt-kissing and idol making
: It's better just to respect the man for his work, which is pretty good.
: Of course, if PAD likes the idea, go ahead.
This newsgroup was NOT Peter's idea. He agrees to participate if it is
formed, but we are not interested in "butt-kissing and idol-making" as
much as having a central forum wherein we can discuss his work (which is
indeed pretty good) and wherein he is able to answer questions from fans,
which are now posted in comics groups, Star Trek groups, even the Babylon
5 group. It's more of a means for a clearinghouse than an idolatry
idea. Sorry if that wasn't made clear enough.
From my correspondence with Peter, I don't necessarily believe he "likes
the idea" per se, but he has given permission for us to proceed with
investigating whether the idea has merit.
Elayne Wechsler-Chaput
: >I am one of many people trying to create a Peter David newsgroup.
: >So far the progress has been to propose it in the "alt.config" newsgroup.
: Try the alt.hierarchy. They like to play fast and loose in creating
: newsgroups there, and this is definitely not big-7 material.
The newsgroup would indeed be in the alt. hierarchy.
: Far be it for me to criticize what puts the bread on the table, but
: almost all of his works are from licensed properties. Exceptions include
: two novels (Knight Life, Howling Mad), and handful of comic-related works
: (CBG, Soulsearchers, Sachs & Violens).
: I personally view this newsgroup proposal as a bad idea, and would
: only regard its legitimacy if Peter David himself newgrouped it
: in control.
Thanks for your opinion. Peter is certainly not about to newgroup the
idea, and perhaps you're correct in assuming that there wouldn't be much
participation in a newsgroup discussing the work of someone who writes
primarily for licensed properties - a very interesting angle to
consider. Question, though - does that mean you don't believe these
licensed properties (Star Trek, Bab5, etc.) should have their own
newsgroups (which of course they do, and which are very active) either?
- Elayne
Ken Small
this discussion to, if you aren't going to alt.config. Seven
newsgroups is a bit overboard for anything but announcements (like,
"Come to group X.X.X to discuss this new newsgroup!").
--
Ken Small "I still belive in the excellent joys of PONG."
kens...@mcs.com -Frank Black, "Whatever Happened to PONG?"
Magic 8-BALL sez: Cannot predict now
Elayne Wechsler-Chaput
: It doesn't make a difference whether or not he wants it.
: It's not butt-kissing and idol making, it's a chance for fans of the man's
: writing to partake in a dialogue outside of the confines of rac.*
: Frankly, if there's a alt.fan.marcia-clark, the world should have alt.PAD.
Yes, one would think so. But we must bear in mind that alt.config has
been OVERLOADED of late with proposals for alt.fan groups, so we have to
make DAMN sure before we organize this one that it's *needed* and
*wanted* by a sizeable majority.
Were I to analogize, however, I would liken alt.fan.peter-david to, say,
alt.fan.mike-jittlov or similar, in that Mike, like Peter, is on line as
well and very accessible via the 'net to his fans. Last I checked,
a.f.m-j was doing just fine - not a LOT of posts, but enough to keep it
viable - and I would hope the same would hold true for an a.f.p-d group.
If enough people think it's a good idea, of course. :)
Elayne Wechsler-Chaput
: Just one suggestion-- maybe pick or or two groups to cross-post
: this discussion to, if you aren't going to alt.config. Seven
: newsgroups is a bit overboard for anything but announcements (like,
: "Come to group X.X.X to discuss this new newsgroup!").
A good idea, Ken, and fine with me (as soon as this initial thread dies
down a bit). Folks, if you'd like, come to either rec.arts.comics.misc or
rec.arts.tv.sf.babylon5 (I think that's what it's called, yes?) to
discuss this thread, as those are the two groups to which I subscribe and
it's easier to keep track of how many "yes" votes we garner that way.
(But Ken, are you in favor of the idea or opposed to it?)
Elayne Wechsler-Chaput
: And I've trimmed the newsgroup line somewhat, to keep this from being too
: similar to spam. :)
'S not spam, it's velveeta! :)
But thanks - I think these three "bare bones" groups will do fine on the
comics/sf end (and we'll do a similar trim, probably, on the Star Trek/B5
end).
Peter David
demand for this, but if people really wanted to do this, then I wouldn't
stand in the way. I get people asking me where I post on Usenet all the
time, so from my point of view, there's a convenience factor to it.
I don't consider it any different than the way GEnie is set up, with
categories for dozens of individual creators. It's simply a matter of
convenience; if nothing else, it removes from areas such as r.a.c.m.
those occasional questions that have nothing to do with comics and
occasionally bugs the hell out of people.
I don't consider it analogous to, say, a fan club (something that several
people have approached me about at different points in the past couple of
years and which I've squelched, considering an Official Peter David Fan
Club to be just too obnoxious for words.)
I look at it this way: If nothing else, people who want to pick a fight
won't have to clutter r.a.c.m to do it.
PAD
John H. Bilow
: I am one of many people trying to create a Peter David newsgroup.
:
: is voice your support for the alt.fan.peter-david newsgroup in this
: newsgroup or (if you want to really to go the extra mile) in alt.config
: If enough support is shown, the newsgroup administrators will check the
: responses and then decide if the newsgroup is a good idea. That means
: that all you Peter David fans have to let yourselves be known.
Excellent idea. Peter David is one of my favorite authors, both in book
and comic books. I read Hulk because of him and I think he is easily the
best writer of the Star Trek series. I would definatly subscribe to such
a newsgroup!!!
-John Bilow
Arnoud Engelfriet
David Alan Carr <gt8...@prism.gatech.edu> wrote:
>gala...@stack.urc.tue.nl (Arnoud "Galactus" Engelfriet) writes:
>
>>gt8...@prism.gatech.edu (David Alan Carr) wrote:
>
>>give. If you go to alt.config, make sure you DON'T make this
>>remark, or your proposal will be denied immediately.
>
>Now hold on a second, son. You misunderdstood. What I meant was that if
>something so ridiculus and malignant as a.f.marcia-clark can be approved,
>then the boys in favor of alt.PAD should have no problem getting their group.
You misunderstood. Every time someone proposes a group on alt.config
and it looks like the group isn't gonna make it, they say "but if
alt.foo.bar can be created why can't I have my group?". It has become
practice to automatically reject group proposals when the proponent
uses this argument. I was just trying to warn you.
>I in no way support anything that promotes the anti-judicial circus
>the OJ Simpson trial has become.
Did I suggest that? I don't even know who Marcia Clark is.
Galactus
David Alan Carr
>>I, in no way, support the anti-judicial circus
>>the OJ Simpson trial has become.
>Did I suggest that? I don't even know who Marcia Clark is.
>Galactus
Really? I wish I could say that.
John P. LaRocque
Peter David <72550...@CompuServe.COM> wrote:
>My take on this was that I would be well and truly surprised if there was
>demand for this, but if people really wanted to do this, then I wouldn't
>stand in the way. I get people asking me where I post on Usenet all the
>time, so from my point of view, there's a convenience factor to it.
>I don't consider it any different than the way GEnie is set up, with
>categories for dozens of individual creators. It's simply a matter of
>convenience; if nothing else, it removes from areas such as r.a.c.m.
>those occasional questions that have nothing to do with comics and
>occasionally bugs the hell out of people.
>I look at it this way: If nothing else, people who want to pick a fight
>won't have to clutter r.a.c.m to do it.
If for no other reason than that it make's PAD's life easier, and will
mildly reduce flame traffic on racm or other forums, I'd say give it
a shot. Besides, we already have an alt.fan.neil-gaiman.
>PAD
One is my name...the other is not.
with this alt.fan.Peter-David' and he said 'If nothing else, people who want
to pick a fight won't have to clutter up r.a.c.m. to do it' and I said 'Whoah,
that's big-timin' ' and he said 'Where have you been? Alt.fan.niel-gaimen?'
and I say 'No.'
--
, ',
) , .
_________________________________ \#\,"|/,_________________________________
\Web445...@daffy.millersv.edu #\_' # `/ "You know, it's like I always/
\or WEB...@cs.millersv.edu \## /\_/\ # ) said, 'No matter how strong,/
\----------------------------#| ( o o ) #\ no matter how powerful it /
\FlamingHeart (call me Pyro)/@ ==_Y_== @# ALWAYS comes down to name/
\ Wade Eric Boger ##@ `-' ##@ calling'" --Morph /
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~@@##V####~~~--Astonishing X-Men#4~~~~
Collin Tuck
>Excellent idea. Peter David is one of my favorite authors, both in book
>and comic books. I read Hulk because of him and I think he is easily the
>best writer of the Star Trek series. I would definatly subscribe to such
>a newsgroup!!!
> -John Bilow
Hey, speaking of Mr. David, I'm looking for a little bit of
confirmation. The cheezwizz-o-rama movie "Oblivion" was
screenwritten/screenplayed/done typed up by a one Peter David. The
style of humour definitely fit, and every now and then I could visualize
panels and word balloons for some of the scenes. That's *not* something
I'm used to doing while watching movies. So what up? Was this Fun your
handiwork, los David?
Oh yeah, thanks for limiting the Trek refrences to three; not too many,
not just a lone jab.
'da Tuckman
<<MEME ALERT!>>no disclaimer, no mental condom<<MEME ALERT!>>
Garrett Sims
writes:
>
>Sergio Fedasz (ser...@uclink2.berkeley.edu) wrote:
>: I am one of many people trying to create a Peter David newsgroup.
>:
>: The next step is to try to prove that there is a demand and a need
for
>: this newsgroup. This means that all that you Peter David fans have
to do
>: is voice your support for the alt.fan.peter-david newsgroup in this
>: newsgroup or (if you want to really to go the extra mile) in
alt.config
>: If enough support is shown, the newsgroup administrators will check
the
>: responses and then decide if the newsgroup is a good idea. That
means
>: that all you Peter David fans have to let yourselves be known.
About time!!! Count me in.
(By the by, I was trying to figure out his first published Marvel
book... I think it was Peter Parker, Spectacular SpiderMan 103, but I'm
probably wrong.)
PS> -- That was the story about the college kids who set out to prove
who Spiderman really was. A great story.
Garrett
Garrett Sims
Carr) writes:
>
>It doesn't make a difference whether or not he wants it.
>It's not butt-kissing and idol making, it's a chance for fans of the
man's
>writing to partake in a dialogue outside of the confines of rac.*
>
alt.PAD.
>
>
Arnoud Galactus Engelfriet
In article <3oudr0$o...@acmex.gatech.edu>,
gt8...@prism.gatech.edu (David Alan Carr) wrote:
> gala...@stack.urc.tue.nl (Arnoud Engelfriet) writes:
>
> >>I, in no way, support the anti-judicial circus
> >>the OJ Simpson trial has become.
>
> >Did I suggest that? I don't even know who Marcia Clark is.
>
> >Galactus
>
> Really? I wish I could say that.
Who is Marcia Clark, then?
Galactus
[Press spacebar for signatures or 'n' for next article]
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****** To find out more about PGP, send mail with subject HELP PGP to me ******
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Keyprint: DD FC 6F 05 C5 1C 86 B2 E7 3B 6A BD 06 CF E8 4E - ID 416A1A35 > <
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Elayne Wechsler-Chaput
: My take on this was that I would be well and truly surprised if there was
: demand for this, but if people really wanted to do this, then I wouldn't
: stand in the way. I get people asking me where I post on Usenet all the
: I don't consider it analogous to, say, a fan club (something that several
: people have approached me about at different points in the past couple of
: years and which I've squelched, considering an Official Peter David Fan
: Club to be just too obnoxious for words.)
: I look at it this way: If nothing else, people who want to pick a fight
: won't have to clutter r.a.c.m to do it.
Thank you, Peter. This (well, except for that last paragraph:) pretty
much sums up my thoughts for Sergio and I proposing the group in the first
place. I too am uncomfortable with the notion of "fan clubs" but enamored
of the idea of convenience, net-wise. Oh, and I should add, since you did
not, that you confirmed to me via E-mail that you *would* participate in
this newsgroup in terms of answering people's questions, etc.
Let me ask you something - how many Usenet posts would you say are
directed specifically to you per week, in all the newsgroups you frequent
that discuss your professional work (i.e., the comics ones, the various
Star Trek ones, the Babylon 5 one, the sf writing ones, etc.)? This
information would go a long way towards determining the viability of this
venture. I assume you keep nominal track of this sort of thing, simply
by virtue of the fact that you post here often and must have some way of
locating the "PAD:" messages relatively easily.
General request to others: If Peter doesn't actually keep track of this,
would any of you be willing to chart it for, say, a month or so, to give
us a better idea and more "ammunition" for alt.config when it comes to that?
Please direct all follow-ups to rec.arts.comics.misc and rec.arts.sf.misc
(the only reason I'm keeping all the newsgroups in the header is that I
want folks to see Peter's response and my follow-up; you can trim the
extra newsgroups away now!:).
David R. Henry
>Hey, speaking of Mr. David, I'm looking for a little bit of
>confirmation. The cheezwizz-o-rama movie "Oblivion" was
>screenwritten/screenplayed/done typed up by a one Peter David. The
>style of humour definitely fit, and every now and then I could visualize
>panels and word balloons for some of the scenes. That's *not* something
>I'm used to doing while watching movies. So what up? Was this Fun your
>handiwork, los David?
Yes, that was the same Peter David. If you want to see other of his
movie credits, check out the last few Trancers movies. He even gets
killed in one of them.
--
David R. Henry-Rogue Fan Club /// I'm just in stiches and needles, I am...
"All you of Earth are IDIOTS!"-P9fOS / What was the question? -- Kate Bush
dhe...@plains.nodak.edu * Evolution: Give it some time, it'll grow on ya.
Elayne Wechsler-Chaput
: [Elayne asks how many postings I get.]
: Oh, geez, Elayne, I have no idea. Kind of depends if people are mad at
: me that week or not. If things are calm, then there's twenty or so,
: best guess. If something erupts (which has been known to happen
: now and then) then it can be fifty, sixty or more. Plus there's spikes:
: I'll get a ton of messages on the B5 board if I have an episode out,
: or a bunch on the Trek board if a new novel hits. Plus there's various
: people who e-mail me. Frequently they ask me the same questions.
Okay, so now it's up to all of us at these various newsgroups with an
interest in seeing a.f.p-d get off the ground to determine if Peter's
above report warrants further investigation. Any volunteers out there
want to keep track of how many posts are directed at Peter weekly?
Peter David
Oh, geez, Elayne, I have no idea. Kind of depends if people are mad at
me that week or not. If things are calm, then there's twenty or so,
best guess. If something erupts (which has been known to happen
now and then) then it can be fifty, sixty or more. Plus there's spikes:
I'll get a ton of messages on the B5 board if I have an episode out,
or a bunch on the Trek board if a new novel hits.
Plus there's various people who e-mail me. Frequently they ask me
the same questions. How to break in, how did I break in, what's the
rules for Trek novels, wing speed of an unladen swallow...that kind of
thing.
PAD
Jacob W Michaels
: [Elayne asks how many postings I get.]
: thing. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
African or European?
Jacob Sorry, I couldn't resist
Dan Hartung
fnc...@gsusgi2.Gsu.EDU (Christopher B. Berger) wrote:
>Peter David (72550...@CompuServe.COM) wrote:
>: the same questions. How to break in, how did I break in, what's the
>: rules for Trek novels, wing speed of an unladen swallow...that kind of
>: thing.
>
>European or African swallow?
* No killing any swallows.
* No siblings for any of the swallows.
* No re-use of any other author's swallows.
* No sex for Spock, but other Vulcan swallows are OK.
* No swallows becoming human stories.
--
* Daniel A. Hartung * dhar...@mcs.com * http://www.mcs.net/~dhartung/ *
Mage: I see a great hand reaching out of the stars. The hand is yours, and
I hear the sounds of billions of people calling your name.
Londo: My followers?
Mage: Your victims.
A reminder that things we start, do not always end with us.