Jiminy Cricket

[Peter Trei]

In a recent thread (which I can't locate), there was a discussion
of Pinocchio, particularly as related to the cricket character.

The cricket appears in the original Italian novel, but only got
a name in the Disney movie.

Tonight, I'm watching the 1939 'The Wizard of Oz', and when
Dorothy meets the Wizard, she says "Jiminy Crickets!"
when she ees him in his 'impressive floating head' form.

In context, this is clearly a substitute for 'Jesus Christ!'.

Wizard of Oz: 1939
Pinocchio: 1940

So, the 'Jiminy Cricket' name was not invented by Disney. I don't
know how far it predated it, though Wikipedia has cites back to 1930.

pt

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <49983b67-16aa-494a...@googlegroups.com>,

Peter Trei <pete...@gmail.com> wrote:
>In a recent thread (which I can't locate), there was a discussion
>of Pinocchio, particularly as related to the cricket character.
>
>The cricket appears in the original Italian novel, but only got
>a name in the Disney movie.

And gets squashed, IIRC, halfway through the book.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com

[Don Bruder]

In article <nzn3z...@kithrup.com>,

djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:

> In article <49983b67-16aa-494a...@googlegroups.com>,
> Peter Trei <pete...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >In a recent thread (which I can't locate), there was a discussion
> >of Pinocchio, particularly as related to the cricket character.
> >
> >The cricket appears in the original Italian novel, but only got
> >a name in the Disney movie.
>
> And gets squashed, IIRC, halfway through the book.

Now that just ain't... On second thought, no. I ain't gonna go there.

Carry on!

--
Security provided by Mssrs Smith and/or Wesson. Brought to you by the letter Q

[Robert Carnegie]

On Sunday, 20 December 2015 04:15:38 UTC, Peter Trei wrote:
> In a recent thread (which I can't locate), there was a discussion
> of Pinocchio, particularly as related to the cricket character.
>
> The cricket appears in the original Italian novel, but only got
> a name in the Disney movie.
>
> Tonight, I'm watching the 1939 'The Wizard of Oz', and when
> Dorothy meets the Wizard, she says "Jiminy Crickets!"

> when she sees him in his 'impressive floating head' form.

>
> In context, this is clearly a substitute for 'Jesus Christ!'.

I don't think Dorothy would have said so!

It would not be the only one; "Jesus wept" and "Judas priest"
are in that category, I think.

In the book - according to <http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/43936> -
she does not speak, until spoken to.

I think that recent research confirms that a verbal exclamation
provides relief from pain or shock of surprise. I don't know
if this includes whether such exclamations have to be profane,
or, if not, why they often are. I suppose that verbally invoking
your gods in a polite way is taught as a charm to protect you
against evil. So a Bishop meeting the Wizard might say,
"Bless my soul!" And that isn't quite the same thing.

> Wizard of Oz: 1939
> Pinocchio: 1940

It's not quite that simple; making an animated film takes a long time,
and Wikipedia says that Jiminy Cricket's role was being constructed
during 1938. On the other hand, that sort of information possibly
would be treated as secret.

[Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)]

On 12/20/15 1:01 AM, Don Bruder wrote:
> In article <nzn3z...@kithrup.com>,
> djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
>
>> In article <49983b67-16aa-494a...@googlegroups.com>,
>> Peter Trei <pete...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> In a recent thread (which I can't locate), there was a discussion
>>> of Pinocchio, particularly as related to the cricket character.
>>>
>>> The cricket appears in the original Italian novel, but only got
>>> a name in the Disney movie.
>>
>> And gets squashed, IIRC, halfway through the book.
>
> Now that just ain't... On second thought, no. I ain't gonna go there.
>
> Carry on!
>

As far as I can tell, "Jiminy Crickets" or, sometimes, "Jiminy
Christmas" was a mild oath/swear word substitute for "Jesus Christ",
since you weren't supposed to take the Lord's name in vain. I can't find
a definitive origin for it but it comes from at least the early to mid
1930s and maybe earlier.


--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Website: http://www.grandcentralarena.com Blog:
http://seawasp.livejournal.com

[Robert Carnegie]

On Sunday, 20 December 2015 13:36:46 UTC, Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) wrote:
> On 12/20/15 1:01 AM, Don Bruder wrote:
> > In article <nzn3z...@kithrup.com>,
> > djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
> >
> >> In article <49983b67-16aa-494a...@googlegroups.com>,
> >> Peter Trei <pete...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> In a recent thread (which I can't locate), there was a discussion
> >>> of Pinocchio, particularly as related to the cricket character.
> >>>
> >>> The cricket appears in the original Italian novel, but only got
> >>> a name in the Disney movie.
> >>
> >> And gets squashed, IIRC, halfway through the book.
> >
> > Now that just ain't... On second thought, no. I ain't gonna go there.
> >
> > Carry on!
> >
>
> As far as I can tell, "Jiminy Crickets" or, sometimes, "Jiminy
> Christmas" was a mild oath/swear word substitute for "Jesus Christ",
> since you weren't supposed to take the Lord's name in vain. I can't find
> a definitive origin for it but it comes from at least the early to mid
> 1930s and maybe earlier.

Great Caesar's Ghost, Peter /said/ that.

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

In article <48dce4e9-d09b-4fc5...@googlegroups.com>,

I doubt it. There are a lot of people involved in making an animated
film.

>
>> So, the 'Jiminy Cricket' name was not invented by Disney. I don't
>> know how far it predated it, though Wikipedia has cites back to 1930.

And wherever the name came from, Cliff Edwards, "Ukulele Ike",
is the reason we remember him so well.
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

[Thomas Womack]

In article <nzn3z...@kithrup.com>,

Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>In article <49983b67-16aa-494a...@googlegroups.com>,
>Peter Trei <pete...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>In a recent thread (which I can't locate), there was a discussion
>>of Pinocchio, particularly as related to the cricket character.
>>
>>The cricket appears in the original Italian novel, but only got
>>a name in the Disney movie.
>
>And gets squashed, IIRC, halfway through the book.

And essentially on his first appearance in the 2007 Jonathan Dove
opera (which is quite obscure, has a really extremely gruelling part
mezzo-soprano part for Pinocchio, and which I only know about because
my mother was singing in the chorus for a production yesterday in
Cambridge). Of course it's an opera and the same coloratura-soprano
can appear as the ghost of Jiminy Cricket in later scenes.

Tom

[Robert Carnegie]

And drag Pinocchio into the fires of hell? :-) (abrupt ending!)

[Brian M. Scott]

On Sun, 20 Dec 2015 08:36:42 -0500, "Sea Wasp (Ryk E.
Spoor)" <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote
in<news:n56aoi$2jf$1...@dont-email.me> in rec.arts.sf.written:

[...]

> As far as I can tell, "Jiminy Crickets" or, sometimes,
> "Jiminy Christmas" was a mild oath/swear word substitute
> for "Jesus Christ", since you weren't supposed to take
> the Lord's name in vain. I can't find a definitive
> origin for it but it comes from at least the early to
> mid 1930s and maybe earlier.

The OED has an instance of <By Jiminy Cricket> from 1848.
An 1890 source reports <Jimminy Cripes!> and <Jimminy
Christmas!> as oaths heard by the writer. Kipling has
<Jiminy Christmas! That gives me the blue creevles.> in
_Captains Courageous_ (1897).

Brian
--
It was the neap tide, when the baga venture out of their
holes to root for sandtatties. The waves whispered
rhythmically over the packed sand: haggisss, haggisss,
haggisss.

[Joe Pfeiffer]

"Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> writes:

> On 12/20/15 1:01 AM, Don Bruder wrote:
>> In article <nzn3z...@kithrup.com>,
>> djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
>>
>>> In article <49983b67-16aa-494a...@googlegroups.com>,
>>> Peter Trei <pete...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> In a recent thread (which I can't locate), there was a discussion
>>>> of Pinocchio, particularly as related to the cricket character.
>>>>
>>>> The cricket appears in the original Italian novel, but only got
>>>> a name in the Disney movie.
>>>
>>> And gets squashed, IIRC, halfway through the book.
>>
>> Now that just ain't... On second thought, no. I ain't gonna go there.
>>
>> Carry on!
>>
>
> As far as I can tell, "Jiminy Crickets" or, sometimes, "Jiminy
> Christmas" was a mild oath/swear word substitute for "Jesus Christ",
> since you weren't supposed to take the Lord's name in vain. I can't
> find a definitive origin for it but it comes from at least the early
> to mid 1930s and maybe earlier.

Online OED says early 19th century.

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/jiminy

[Robert Carnegie]

I see it's said (or claimed) to descend from "By Gemini!"

Incidentally the fictional British amateur detective of
the 20th century, Paul Temple, was made to say "By Timothy!"
I don't think that one caught on, or at least it hasn't stuck.

[Peter Trei]

Google Books advanced search turns up numerous pre-1920 uses of the phrase,
in the same manner as Dorothy: as an exclamation where a less reverent person
might say 'Jesus Christ!'.

It would make no sense whatsoever for her to use
an unknown phrase, leading the audience to a huh? moment. She said something
which was understood, and in character for an more or less innocent Kansas
16 year old of the time, in a family film made under the Hayes Code.

Similarly, Disney picked a known phrase when naming the cricket character.

pt

[David DeLaney]

ObSF: "chickadee tidbits!"

Dave, skedaddling
--
\/David DeLaney posting thru EarthLink - "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://gatekeeper.vic.com/~dbd/ -net.legends/Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

[Raymond Daley]

Does this apply to that Snagglepuss phrase "Heavens to Murgatroyd!" too?

I assume it's a take on Heavens to Betsy (whoever the hell Betsy or
Murgatroyd may have been)?

[Cryptoengineer]

"Raymond Daley" <raymon...@ntlworld.com> wrote in news:njfey.124923
$dK6....@fx42.am4:

> Does this apply to that Snagglepuss phrase "Heavens to Murgatroyd!" too?
>
> I assume it's a take on Heavens to Betsy (whoever the hell Betsy or
> Murgatroyd may have been)?

Heavens to Betsy goes back at least to 1857, and its origin is listed
as 'unknown' by every page I've checked.

Heavens to Murgatroyd was used by Bert Lahr in the 1944 film "Meet the
People". Snagglepuss's speaking style was based on Lahr, so there's a
connection (think of the Lion in The Wizard of Oz).

Has anyone mentioned that these swear word replacments are termed
'minced oaths'?

pt

[David DeLaney]

On 2015-12-22, Cryptoengineer <treif...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "Raymond Daley" <raymon...@ntlworld.com> wrote in news:njfey.124923

>> Does this apply to that Snagglepuss phrase "Heavens to Murgatroyd!" too?
>>
>> I assume it's a take on Heavens to Betsy (whoever the hell Betsy or
>> Murgatroyd may have been)?
>
> Heavens to Betsy goes back at least to 1857, and its origin is listed
> as 'unknown' by every page I've checked.
>
> Heavens to Murgatroyd was used by Bert Lahr in the 1944 film "Meet the
> People". Snagglepuss's speaking style was based on Lahr, so there's a
> connection (think of the Lion in The Wizard of Oz).

Also seen as "Heavens, Polly!" and/or other substituted names.

> Has anyone mentioned that these swear word replacments are termed
> 'minced oaths'?

Dave, needs more garlic and sulfur; season to taste