worst sf book ever
alanm...@yahoo.com
http://wmbriggs.com/blog/2006/12/06/worst-science-fiction-of-all-time/#more-7
Are there any challengers for place and show?- A. McIntire
Terry Austin
news:a04c1db4-1949-4177...@i12g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
That might actually be worse than everything written by Marion Zimmer
Bradley.
--
Terry Austin
"Dude, we're all your bitch, but only Ken's wearing the juice."
- tussock
"Just throw a rock, and what screams will probably be a moron."
- Elvis (no, not that Elvis)
Lawrence Watt-Evans
wrote:
>"alanm...@yahoo.com" <alanm...@yahoo.com> wrote in
>news:a04c1db4-1949-4177...@i12g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
>
>> William Briggs wrote this amusing review of the worst SF book ever.
>>
>> http://wmbriggs.com/blog/2006/12/06/worst-science-fiction-of-all-time/#
>> more-7
>>
>> Are there any challengers for place and show?- A. McIntire
>>
>That might actually be worse than everything written by Marion Zimmer
>Bradley.
Well, yes -- she's hardly in the same league as Lionel Fanthorpe, or
LaVerne Ross, or H. Turk. (Okay, Ross and Turk wrote fantasy, rather
than science fiction -- does that rule them out?)
Douglas K. Bell surely deserves a mention, as well.
Oh, and perhaps the Steinbergs, pere et fils?
--
My webpage is at http://www.watt-evans.com
The seventh issue of Helix is now at http://www.helixsf.com
Gene Ward Smith
news:a04c1db4-1949-4177-ba5d-
94d711...@i12g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
Sorry, it's clear from what the review quotes that it isn't
the worst sf book of all time, though it might be the most
deranged. An example of a worse sf book would be The
Christening, by Roger P. Elwood, unless you aren't counting
anything but science fiction. I hear Mission Earth is pretty
awful, and that the later Gor books get progressively worse.
Since the first one is complete trash, this suggests we may
have a winner, or loser. Of course if The Eye of Argon were
only longer, we would have a clear winner in the heroic
fantasy department.
Butch Malahide
wrote:
> William Briggs wrote this amusing review of the worst SF book ever.
>
> Buck Alice And The Actor Robot (1988, Guild Press).
Not good, but my nominee for worst sf book ever is still _John Smith,
Emperor_ by S. G. Gallego, Guild Press, 1944. It's so bad that I'm the
only person who has ever heard of it, let alone read it, and the proud
owner of what may be the only copy in existence. I wonder if that's
the same Guild Press, and I wonder what else they've done between 1944
and 1988. It's hard to compare the two works, though, seeing as they
are in different genres; the one is a utopia, the other, er, an
adventure story.
Joseph Nebus
>"alanm...@yahoo.com" <alanm...@yahoo.com> wrote in
>news:a04c1db4-1949-4177-ba5d-
>94d711...@i12g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
>> William Briggs wrote this amusing review of the worst SF
>book ever.
>>
>> http://wmbriggs.com/blog/2006/12/06/worst-science-fiction-
>of-all-time/#more-7
>>
>> Are there any challengers for place and show?- A. McIntire
>Sorry, it's clear from what the review quotes that it isn't
>the worst sf book of all time, though it might be the most
>deranged.
Heck, the given quotes suggest an interesting book, telling
the story with an amiable enough chuckle along the way. I don't know
why ``Cathleen made several stabs at writing an ironic poem
commemorating the whole ordeal but, in the end, settled for becoming
pregnant'' strikes me as funny, but it does.
Other parts, particularly where the ``Africanized'' names
come in, just leave me feeling uncomfortable, and prescribing orgies
has never appealed to me, but from the evidence provided in the
review the book doesn't seem to qualify as worst-ever.
> An example of a worse sf book would be The
>Christening, by Roger P. Elwood, unless you aren't counting
>anything but science fiction. I hear Mission Earth is pretty
>awful, and that the later Gor books get progressively worse.
>Since the first one is complete trash, this suggests we may
>have a winner, or loser. Of course if The Eye of Argon were
>only longer, we would have a clear winner in the heroic
>fantasy department.
Plus, there's various Star Trek novels written by Sondra Marshak
and Myrna Culbreth.
I realize I can't think of the last science fiction novel that
I read which I really despised, although part of that is that I'm not
reading so much as I used to, and I seem to be getting better at
projecting how good or bad the book should be based on the cover.
--
Joseph Nebus
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David DeLaney
... Okay, that -does- seem to beat Night Travels of the Elvish Vampire
( http://crevette.livejournal.com/113659.html ) and its rewrite Eternity of
Blood ( http://crevette.livejournal.com/240745.html ). Though it's painful to
try to decide by how much. Eye of Argon never actually got published, did it
(even self-)?
Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from d...@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
David DeLaney
>Well, yes -- she's hardly in the same league as Lionel Fanthorpe, or
>LaVerne Ross, or H. Turk. (Okay, Ross and Turk wrote fantasy, rather
>than science fiction -- does that rule them out?)
Well, he did say SF, and here that is inclusive...
>Douglas K. Bell surely deserves a mention, as well.
Does it reflect badly on me that I remember this immediately as SPACE BANG !
? (I have an excuse - he's in my FAQ...)
David DeLaney
> Plus, there's various Star Trek novels written by Sondra Marshak
>and Myrna Culbreth.
Hey! I liked those! (At one point!) You're referring to the Phoenix pair,
right? Cuz they also edited Star Trek the New Voyages 1-2...
> I realize I can't think of the last science fiction novel that
>I read which I really despised, although part of that is that I'm not
>reading so much as I used to, and I seem to be getting better at
>projecting how good or bad the book should be based on the cover.
The last fantasy I know of that I couldn't finish was Newcomb's The Fifth
Sorceress. Can't think of a corresponding scifi novel right now, though I
did have to struggle a bit through Coney's non-Greataway stuff.
... looking at the banished.bad file I've started keeping recently, for ones
that have been taken back -out- of my collection/listing, I find the four
there are all fantasy - A Princess of Roumania / Park (good GODS does anything
ever HAPPEN while these characters are agonizing? / 8 deadly words / so the
real world is just something one of the villains made up in their spare time?
sorry, they don't have anywhere near the brainpower, by orders of magnitude
OF orders of magnitude, to imagine anything as complex as we live in), Kar
Kalim / Christian (yes, the whole book really is about the protagonist's sexual
abuse - thanks ever so), Bloodwalk / Davis (8 deadly words - okay, so the
protagonist is an Eeeeevil Witchipoo and is doing Eeeeevil Things. I care
why?), and The Crimson Sword / Thompson (let's not only follow Campbell's
heroic journey slavishly, let's have the protagonist think out loud to himself
about the symbolism involved and have conversations dripping with cluelessness
between him and his Eternal Infernal Companion).
Sorry, was compelled to get that all out of my system for some reason.
Apologies if anyone else here liked any of those.
Butch Malahide
> On Feb 22, 11:55 pm, "alanmc95...@yahoo.com" <alanmc95...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> > William Briggs wrote this amusing review of the worst SF book ever.
>
> >http://wmbriggs.com/blog/2006/12/06/worst-science-fiction-of-all-time...
> > Buck Alice And The Actor Robot (1988, Guild Press).
>
> Not good, but my nominee for worst sf book ever is still _John Smith,
> Emperor_ by S. G. Gallego, Guild Press, 1944. It's so bad that I'm the
> only person who has ever heard of it, let alone read it, and the proud
> owner of what may be the only copy in existence.
That part was an exaggeration: I just find two copies for sale online.
The funny thing is, when I google on "John Smith Emperor"+"gallego" I
get two hits, for those two booksellers; but when I just google on
"John Smith Emperor", expecting to get *more* hits, I get only one
hit, not for the book, but for some kind of gambling den. Could one of
you internet-savvy people kindly explain to me how that works?
tphile
> Gene Ward Smith <g...@chewbacca.org> writes:
>
> >"alanmc95...@yahoo.com" <alanmc95...@yahoo.com> wrote in
> >news:a04c1db4-1949-4177-ba5d-
> >94d7110e3...@i12g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
could their possibly be a worse Star Trek novel than Black Fire
by Sonni Cooper?
Reading it was so awful I didn't touch another Trek book for decades.
AFAIK thats the only book she has been able to get published
I certainly hope so.
tphile
art...@yahoo.com
> Lawrence Watt-Evans <l...@sff.net> wrote:
> >Well, yes -- she's hardly in the same league as Lionel Fanthorpe, or
> >LaVerne Ross, or H. Turk. (Okay, Ross and Turk wrote fantasy, rather
> >than science fiction -- does that rule them out?)
>
> Well, he did say SF, and here that is inclusive...
Of course with bad Science Fiction you can combine both bad science
and bad fiction for a one two knockout punch. Alas, while I can think
of some books that are bad at one and atrocious at the other, I'm not
coming up with something that is truly horrid at both, but I have not
read the nominees mentioned here.
Dorothy J Heydt
Gene Ward Smith <ge...@chewbacca.org> wrote:
>....Of course if The Eye of Argon were
>only longer, we would have a clear winner in the heroic
>fantasy department.
The Eye of Argon is a strong contender in the bad-writing
category, subset loving the thesaurus not wisely but too well;
but other than that it's NOT that bad a story. It's a classic
sword-n-sorcery with good action and an adequate plot. Pity
Theiss hadn't had a mentor who could've taken away his thesaurus
and made him read more widely; he could have been a writer.
By the way, my contender for worst (or at least, worst I've read
-- I don't, for example, even attempt to read Gor) is one whose
title and author I've forgotten. Something about a veterinarian
in space. The only time I have ever literally thrown the book
against the wall. I did not pronounce the Eight Deadly Words on
that occasion because I had not yet encountered enough people in
it to not care about.
Dorothy J. Heydt
Albany, California
djh...@kithrup.com
Howard Brazee
but the joke was way to long and it got tiresome. Admittedly, it was a
one-book trilogy, so I had the excuse that I wouldn't have bought part
2, but it did teach me that I could quit in the future - way too many
good books I have never read.
(Illuminati trilogy).
mimus
> Gene Ward Smith <ge...@chewbacca.org> writes:
>
>>"alanm...@yahoo.com" <alanm...@yahoo.com> wrote in
>>news:a04c1db4-1949-4177-ba5d-
>>94d711...@i12g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
>
>>> William Briggs wrote this amusing review of the worst SF
>>book ever.
>>>
>>> http://wmbriggs.com/blog/2006/12/06/worst-science-fiction-
>>of-all-time/#more-7
>>>
>>> Are there any challengers for place and show?- A. McIntire
>
>>Sorry, it's clear from what the review quotes that it isn't
>>the worst sf book of all time, though it might be the most
>>deranged.
>
> Heck, the given quotes suggest an interesting book, telling
> the story with an amiable enough chuckle along the way. I don't know
> why ``Cathleen made several stabs at writing an ironic poem
> commemorating the whole ordeal but, in the end, settled for becoming
> pregnant'' strikes me as funny, but it does.
Yes, this did not strike me as an attempt at serious SCI-FI.
If anything, something a little closer but of course greatly inferior to
Thorne Smith, although Smith IIRC never did anything extraterrestrial,
unless you count ghosts or gods as extraterrestrial.
And could apparently use a little more proofing.
--
Mark Twain, whenever sober long enough to permit an
estimate, has been uniformly found to bear a spotless
character.
< Ambrose Bierce
Sea Wasp
For the win, VAN GOGH IN SPACE ! ! !
And in the fantasy department, Eye of Argon pales in comparison with
Night Travels of the Elven Vampire.
The above two are the literary equivalent of the Star Wars Holiday
Special.
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Live Journal: http://seawasp.livejournal.com
Sea Wasp
> Joseph Nebus <nebusj-@-rpi-.edu> wrote:
>
>> Plus, there's various Star Trek novels written by Sondra Marshak
>>and Myrna Culbreth.
>
>
> Hey! I liked those! (At one point!) You're referring to the Phoenix pair,
> right? Cuz they also edited Star Trek the New Voyages 1-2...
Marshak and Culbreath wrote the two Phoenix novels (The Price of the
Phoenix, the Fate of the Phoenix) and had the third planned but it
was never published (alas; I really wanted to know what the resolution
they had in mind was). They also edited Star Trek: The New Voyages 1
and 2, one of which included their novelette "The Procrustean Petard",
which I consider the worst of their output. They also wrote two other
Trek novels: The Prometheus Design, probably the most ambitious of
their works, and Triangle.
In many ways I've considered their work some of the most interesting
of the Trek novels, because they actually explored implications of the
world (e.g., the transporter problem) the original series created in
ways most novels never even thought about.
Brenda Clough
Obviously the awards should be set up like the Nebulas or Hugos.
Worst short story, worst novella, and so on. I'd say ARGON
has a lock on worst short story.
Brenda
--
---------
Brenda W. Clough
http://www.sff.net/people/Brenda/
Recent short fiction:
"A Mighty Fortress"
http://www.helixsf.com/archives/Jul07/index.htm
Rich Horton
A few nominees:
Lionel Fanthorpe is too easy, in a way, but still -- try reading
GALAXY 666 (as by "Pel Torro") sometime -- that's pretty darn bad.
A DAW book from the mid-70s that just astonished me with its badness:
THE HAWKS OF ARCTURUS, by Cecil Snyder III (I suspect a pseudonym, and
I wonder if it's someone well known).
A very ambitious book by a pretty fair author, but so terrible:
ALGORITHM, by Jean Mark Gawron. Reduced me to reading sentence by
sentence, with absolutely no comprehension of what was happening, just
to say I finished it.
And more recently, an appalling supposedly comic novel, Second Contact
by J. D. Austin. My review is here:
<URL:http://www.sfsite.com/12b/sc118.htm>.
(The SF writer I mention in the opening sentence is by the way a
sometime regular here at rec.arts.sf.written.)
Christopher Henrich
<a04c1db4-1949-4177...@i12g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
"alanm...@yahoo.com" <alanm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
<http://www.amazon.com/Z-Effect-Marshall-laurens/dp/0671783572/ref=sr_11_
1?ie=UTF8&qid=1203792163&sr=11-1>
I haven't actually read this, but I remember that a reviewer (perhaps
Spider Robinson) condemned it with unusual vehemence (I mean, more than
Spider's usual vehemence) , and the cover blurb "A mad, demented
scientist" etc. is surely one of the low points in the history of cover
blurbs.
--
Christopher J. Henrich
chen...@monmouth.com
htp://www.mathinteract.com
Christopher Henrich
<a04c1db4-1949-4177...@i12g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
"alanm...@yahoo.com" <alanm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
<http://www.amazon.com/Z-Effect-Marshall-laurens/dp/0671783572/ref=sr_11_
1?ie=UTF8&qid=1203792163&sr=11-1>
I haven't actually read this, but I remember that a reviewer (perhaps
Spider Robinson) condemned it with unusual vehemence (I mean, more than
Spider's usual vehemence) , and the cover blurb "A mad, demented
scientist" etc. is surely one of the low points in the history of cover
blurbs.
Used copies are available, including this one, with the author's
inscription:
<http://www.alibris.com/booksearch.detail?S=R&bid=8795921393&cm_mmc=shopc
ompare-_-base-_-nonisbn-_-na>
Dilbert Perkins
The Mission Earth series by L. Ron Hubbard. You know you're in trouble
when the title of the first book contains a punctuation error.
Gene Ward Smith
news:P4_vj.12827$R84....@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net:
> The Mission Earth series by L. Ron Hubbard. You know you're
in trouble
> when the title of the first book contains a punctuation
error.
Has anyone actually read Dijkstra's War? The excerpts on Baen
were encouragingly awful. A State of Disobedience is a
terrible stinker also.
Mike Schilling
> Dilbert Perkins <dilbert...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
> news:P4_vj.12827$R84....@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net:
>
>> The Mission Earth series by L. Ron Hubbard. You know you're in
>> trouble when the title of the first book contains a punctuation
>> error.
>
> Has anyone actually read Dijkstra's War?
Is it considered harmful?
Gene Ward Smith
news:kk_vj.12951$0w....@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net:
>> Has anyone actually read Dijkstra's War?
>
> Is it considered harmful?
If it explodes when you try to read it.
Bill Snyder
wrote:
>Dilbert Perkins <dilbert...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
>news:P4_vj.12827$R84....@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net:
>
>> The Mission Earth series by L. Ron Hubbard. You know you're
>in trouble
>> when the title of the first book contains a punctuation
>error.
>
>Has anyone actually read Dijkstra's War?
Yes. But I'm not about to go back, and have to scrub out my cranial
cavity with steel wool and Lysol a second time; so about all I can
tell you at this point is that the plot is as silly as the writing is
clumsy, and the characters are as wooden as the plot is silly, and the
science is as wonky as the characters are wooden.
> The excerpts on Baen
>were encouragingly awful. A State of Disobedience is a
>terrible stinker also.
Not that we're prejudiced or anything.
--
Bill Snyder [This space unintentionally left blank]
Dilbert Perkins
Wizard's Fist Rule? Pretty cheesy stuff.
Rebecca Rice
> Gene Ward Smith <ge...@chewbacca.org> writes:
>
>> "alanm...@yahoo.com" <alanm...@yahoo.com> wrote in
>> news:a04c1db4-1949-4177-ba5d-
>> 94d711...@i12g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
>
>>> William Briggs wrote this amusing review of the worst SF
>> book ever.
>>> http://wmbriggs.com/blog/2006/12/06/worst-science-fiction-
>> of-all-time/#more-7
>>> Are there any challengers for place and show?- A. McIntire
>
>> Sorry, it's clear from what the review quotes that it isn't
>> the worst sf book of all time, though it might be the most
>> deranged.
>
> Heck, the given quotes suggest an interesting book, telling
> the story with an amiable enough chuckle along the way. I don't know
> why ``Cathleen made several stabs at writing an ironic poem
> commemorating the whole ordeal but, in the end, settled for becoming
> pregnant'' strikes me as funny, but it does.
It's actually rather tragic, given that we are told that this is her
first menses, which means that she is probably 9ish. Younger than the
future mother of humanity, in fact, who is not allowed to participate in
the orgies.
Rebecca
Gene Ward Smith
news:9ds0s3huonsd9l3je...@4ax.com:
>> The excerpts on Baen
>>were encouragingly awful. A State of Disobedience is a
>>terrible stinker also.
>
> Not that we're prejudiced or anything.
Krapman got on my case because I dumped on it, not the other
way around.
David DeLaney
I read those in reverse order (because that's the order I found them in used
bookstores at). It seemed to make about as much sense that way, but I did
finish them all.
David DeLaney
>Yes. But I'm not about to go back, and have to scrub out my cranial
>cavity with steel wool and Lysol a second time; so about all I can
>tell you at this point is that the plot is as silly as the writing is
>clumsy, and the characters are as wooden as the plot is silly, and the
>science is as wonky as the characters are wooden.
Is there a crane, and must the crane dance?
Dave "sorry, having a Hughart flashback for a moment there" DeLaney
David Johnston
>William Briggs wrote this amusing review of the worst SF book ever.
>
>http://wmbriggs.com/blog/2006/12/06/worst-science-fiction-of-all-time/#more-7
>
>Are there any challengers for place and show?- A. McIntire
I won't deny it, that's worse than the worse book I ever read.
David DeLaney
>Bill Snyder wrote:
>> Not that we're prejudiced or anything.
>
>Wizard's Fist Rule? Pretty cheesy stuff.
Well, but at least with those you can see through to the shorter book inside
that would be much better, for each entry in the series. It's the splattering
with politics and theories of human behavior as plot-dumped by the characters
and the showing-us-don't-telling-us over and over again of how Bad the Bad Guys
Are, painted across the studies of the magics and the cultures and the
interesting discoveries, that cause such cognitive dissonance for me. And I'm
still gonna buy the last one once it makes paperback, partly because it IS
the last one and I wanna find out whether the Bad Guy manages to turn the Hero
into a puddle of goo at the end, or not.
Dave
John Schilling
wrote:
>Dilbert Perkins <dilbert...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
>news:P4_vj.12827$R84....@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net:
>
>> The Mission Earth series by L. Ron Hubbard. You know you're
>in trouble
>> when the title of the first book contains a punctuation
>error.
>
>Has anyone actually read Dijkstra's War? The excerpts on Baen
>were encouragingly awful.
I've read it. It wasn't the worst SF book ever. I'm not sure
it even really qualified as awful.
It definitely didn't qualify as good. Mediocre, maybe. Should
have been written in the Pulp Age.
--
*John Schilling * "Anything worth doing, *
*Member:AIAA,NRA,ACLU,SAS,LP * is worth doing for money" *
*Chief Scientist & General Partner * -13th Rule of Acquisition *
*White Elephant Research, LLC * "There is no substitute *
*John.S...@alumni.usc.edu * for success" *
*661-718-0955 or 661-275-6795 * -58th Rule of Acquisition *
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Rich Horton <rrho...@prodigy.net> wrote:
>
>
>On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 21:55:35 -0800 (PST), "alanm...@yahoo.com"
><alanm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>William Briggs wrote this amusing review of the worst SF book ever.
>>
>>http://wmbriggs.com/blog/2006/12/06/worst-science-fiction-of-all-time/#more-7
>>
>>Are there any challengers for place and show?- A. McIntire
>
>A few nominees:
>
>Lionel Fanthorpe is too easy, in a way, but still -- try reading
>GALAXY 666 (as by "Pel Torro") sometime -- that's pretty darn bad.
I bought that used at a bait & supplies store once, and both a friend and me
ended up reading it. I think I found it so bizarre that it didn't
really register as "bad" for me, and he seemed to like it. (Of course
we were both 14..)
>
>A DAW book from the mid-70s that just astonished me with its badness:
>THE HAWKS OF ARCTURUS, by Cecil Snyder III (I suspect a pseudonym, and
>I wonder if it's someone well known).
>
I remember absolutely nothing about this other than it had a sexy cover,
was a "white edge" era DAW, and that I liked it.
Ted
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
_ berge @hotmail.com.invalid Eric D. Berge
wrote:
> A State of Disobedience is a terrible stinker also.
100% agreement. Clumsy prose in the service of drooling hate - a real
turd of abook.
Eye of Argon at least had some cheerfully loopy verve that gave me
some small quantum of pleasure; ASOB left me feeling like I needed a
shower.
Mike Schilling
OK, a bad place to go to.
Mike Schilling
> On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 19:11:11 GMT, Gene Ward Smith
> <ge...@chewbacca.org>
> wrote:
>
>> Dilbert Perkins <dilbert...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
>> news:P4_vj.12827$R84....@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net:
>>
>>> The Mission Earth series by L. Ron Hubbard. You know you're
>> in trouble
>>> when the title of the first book contains a punctuation
>> error.
>>
>> Has anyone actually read Dijkstra's War? The excerpts on Baen
>> were encouragingly awful.
>
> I've read it. It wasn't the worst SF book ever. I'm not sure
> it even really qualified as awful.
>
> It definitely didn't qualify as good. Mediocre, maybe. Should
> have been written in the Pulp Age.
ITYM "should have been made into pulpage". (Actually, I've never read
it. Given how much fun the bits James and Bill quoted were to parody,
I think having heard about it but not read it is the sweet spot.)
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Mike Schilling
> In article <iI4wj.13236$0w....@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net>,
> Mike Schilling <mscotts...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Gene Ward Smith wrote:
>>> "Mike Schilling" <mscotts...@hotmail.com> wrote in
>>> news:kk_vj.12951$0w....@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net:
>>>
>>>>> Has anyone actually read Dijkstra's War?
>>>>
>>>> Is it considered harmful?
>>>
>>> If it explodes when you try to read it.
>>
>> OK, a bad place to go to.
>>
>>
>
> Still better than "come from".
C'mon, boys and girls, this one isn't that difficult.
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Mike Schilling <mscotts...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
>> In article <iI4wj.13236$0w....@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net>,
>> Mike Schilling <mscotts...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Gene Ward Smith wrote:
>>>> "Mike Schilling" <mscotts...@hotmail.com> wrote in
>>>> news:kk_vj.12951$0w....@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net:
>>>>
>>>>>> Has anyone actually read Dijkstra's War?
>>>>>
>>>>> Is it considered harmful?
>>>>
>>>> If it explodes when you try to read it.
>>>
>>> OK, a bad place to go to.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Still better than "come from".
>
>C'mon, boys and girls, this one isn't that difficult.
>
>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Come_from
Mike Schilling
> In article <Ul5wj.12254$Ch6....@newssvr11.news.prodigy.net>,
> Mike Schilling <mscotts...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
>>> In article <iI4wj.13236$0w....@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net>,
>>> Mike Schilling <mscotts...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Gene Ward Smith wrote:
>>>>> "Mike Schilling" <mscotts...@hotmail.com> wrote in
>>>>> news:kk_vj.12951$0w....@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Has anyone actually read Dijkstra's War?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is it considered harmful?
>>>>>
>>>>> If it explodes when you try to read it.
>>>>
>>>> OK, a bad place to go to.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Still better than "come from".
>>
>> C'mon, boys and girls, this one isn't that difficult.
>>
>>
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Come_from
Let me ALTER my previous statement.
Cosmin Corbea
news:slrnfrvmg...@gatekeeper.vic.com...
> ... looking at the banished.bad file I've started keeping recently, for
> ones
> that have been taken back -out- of my collection/listing, I find the four
> there are all fantasy - A Princess of Roumania / Park (good GODS does
> anything
> ever HAPPEN while these characters are agonizing? / 8 deadly words / so
> the
> real world is just something one of the villains made up in their spare
> time?
> sorry, they don't have anywhere near the brainpower, by orders of
> magnitude
> OF orders of magnitude, to imagine anything as complex as we live in),
Funny, I'm currently reading "The Tourmaline" - the second book of the
trilogy; I don't find it so bad. Rather slow, but I didn't feel like
throwing it at the wall yet :)
>Kar
> Kalim / Christian (yes, the whole book really is about the protagonist's
> sexual
> abuse - thanks ever so), Bloodwalk / Davis (8 deadly words - okay, so the
> protagonist is an Eeeeevil Witchipoo and is doing Eeeeevil Things. I care
> why?), and The Crimson Sword / Thompson (let's not only follow Campbell's
> heroic journey slavishly, let's have the protagonist think out loud to
> himself
> about the symbolism involved and have conversations dripping with
> cluelessness
> between him and his Eternal Infernal Companion).
>
Hmm, haven't read any of the above. Latest "worst ever" fantasy book I read
:) is Sarah Monnet's "The Virtu". I had read "Melusine", the first volume,
and it was ok; unremarkable, but not terrible. The second was however so
awful I just dropped the whole thing right there.
As to worst SF book I read, it's hands down a vile concoction perpetrated by
Niven, Pournelle and Flynn, named "Fallen Angels". I can't understand how
the three of them - whose other work I quite like otherwise - managed to
come up with such a terrible mess.
--
Regards,
Cosmin Corbea
tphile
wrote:
> William Briggs wrote this amusing review of the worst SF book ever.
>
> http://wmbriggs.com/blog/2006/12/06/worst-science-fiction-of-all-time...
>
> Are there any challengers for place and show?- A. McIntire
If not the worse then certainly bad is the cover that has nothing
to do with the story within and is not an abstract.
Zelazny The Trumps of Doom with the robot monk looking thing with
a clock shaped device.
was just some generic piece of art the publisher had on stock and used
to save a buck.
That cover would have worked with an anthology book but not the Amber
series.
tphile
Jon Schild
alanm...@yahoo.com wrote:
> William Briggs wrote this amusing review of the worst SF book ever.
>
> http://wmbriggs.com/blog/2006/12/06/worst-science-fiction-of-all-time/#more-7
>
> Are there any challengers for place and show?- A. McIntire
I always thought, after attempting to slog through it, that Piers
Anthony's _Orn_ was the worst ever written. But it wasn't this bad.
--
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us
with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
-- Galileo Galilei
David Goldfarb
tphile <tph...@cableone.net> wrote:
>If not the worse then certainly bad is the cover that has nothing
>to do with the story within and is not an abstract.
>
>Zelazny The Trumps of Doom with the robot monk looking thing with
>a clock shaped device.
>was just some generic piece of art the publisher had on stock and used
>to save a buck.
>That cover would have worked with an anthology book but not the Amber
>series.
Actually, that image worked quite well when Michael Whelan used it
as the cover to Fred Saberhagen's _Brother Assassin_. (Berserkers,
time travel, and monks all figured into the plot.) Why the cover
artist for _Trumps of Doom_ thought he could get away with swiping
it -- and why he wanted to do so -- is unclear.
--
David Goldfarb | The views and opinions expressed here are my own.
gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu | They do not reflect upon Microsoft Corporation or
gold...@csua.berkeley.edu | its employees in any way because, well, I don't
| work for Microsoft.
Sea Wasp
>
>
> alanm...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>> William Briggs wrote this amusing review of the worst SF book ever.
>>
>> http://wmbriggs.com/blog/2006/12/06/worst-science-fiction-of-all-time/#more-7
>>
>> Are there any challengers for place and show?- A. McIntire
>
>
> I always thought, after attempting to slog through it, that Piers
> Anthony's _Orn_ was the worst ever written. But it wasn't this bad.
>
>
Piers has many faults, but he can write quite decent prose, and Orn
is FAR from even the worst HE'S written, let alone the worst stuff
EVER written.
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Live Journal: http://seawasp.livejournal.com
Howard Brazee
> > I always thought, after attempting to slog through it, that Piers
> > > Anthony's _Orn_ was the worst ever written. But it wasn't this
> bad.
> > >
> > >
>
> Piers has many faults, but he can write quite decent prose, and
> Orn
> is FAR from even the worst HE'S written, let alone the worst stuff
> EVER written.
I have the impression that Orn was Piers' attempt to be really literate.
When it wasn't appreciated, he gave up and decided to be popular instead.
For lots of us "bad literature" is harder to take than "bad story", even
if the the "bad literature" was close to being successful.
ppint. at pplay
j...@xmission.com "Jon Schild" commented in awe:
> alanm...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>>William Briggs wrote this amusing review of the worst SF book ever.
>>http://wmbriggs.com/blog/2006/12/06/worst-science-fiction-of-all-time/
>>#more-7
>>Are there any challengers for place and show?- A. McIntire
>
>I always thought, after attempting to slog through it, that Piers
>Anthony's _Orn_ was the worst ever written. But it wasn't this bad.
>
(this emwftrw)
- love, a ppint. happy to have even half a shop open again
[please drop the "v", and change the "f" to a "g",
should you wish to cc. to, or email, me]
--
"What are your fees?" inquired Guyal cautiously. "I respond to three
questions," stated the augur. "For twenty terces I phrase the answer
in clear and actionable language; for ten I use the language of cant,
which occasionally admits of ambiguity; for five, I speak a parable
which you must interpret as you will; and for one terce, I babble in
an unknown tongue." "Guyal of Sfere", _The Dying Earth_- Jack Vance
Karl Johanson
> As to worst SF book I read, it's hands down a vile concoction
> perpetrated by Niven, Pournelle and Flynn, named "Fallen Angels". I
> can't understand how the three of them - whose other work I quite like
> otherwise - managed to come up with such a terrible mess.
A friend read "Fallen Angels" in his young teen young teen years. He was
so stunned that anyone would put that much effort into vilifying a
specific group of people ('greens' in this case), that he looked into
'green' causes. Some year later he ran for city council with the local
Green Party & was elected.
Karl Johanson
Karl Johanson
> Obviously the awards should be set up like the Nebulas or Hugos. Worst
> short story, worst novella, and so on. I'd say ARGON has a lock on
> worst short story.
The Elron Awards have run since 1971. http://www.vcon.ca/elron
Karl Johanson
John Pelan
wrote:
>On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 21:55:35 -0800 (PST), "alanm...@yahoo.com"
><alanm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>William Briggs wrote this amusing review of the worst SF book ever.
>>
>>http://wmbriggs.com/blog/2006/12/06/worst-science-fiction-of-all-time/#more-7
>>
>>Are there any challengers for place and show?- A. McIntire
>
>A few nominees:
>
>Lionel Fanthorpe is too easy, in a way, but still -- try reading
>GALAXY 666 (as by "Pel Torro") sometime -- that's pretty darn bad.
>
Fanthorpe's pretty bad, as was his crony John Glasby. Sadly, both
authors could write well when they wanted to. Fanthorpe has about
two-dozen exceptional ghost stories to his credit and Glasby's also
done some pretty good supernatural horror. Neither was much good at
SF, but unfortunately certain publishers encouraged them by giving
them checks...
I used to have quite a collection of awful SF titles, but over the
years I've sold off a lot of it. The remants are up on eBay right now
under seller ID darknemoblackcat. Even with three bedrooms devoted to
the book collection, space is always a consideration and since I doubt
that I'm ever likely to want to re-read this stuff, I might as well
make room for other things.
Cheers,
Sea Wasp
> "Cosmin Corbea" <cosminc@spa_mtrap.canada.com.invalid> wrote
>
>
>>As to worst SF book I read, it's hands down a vile concoction
>>perpetrated by Niven, Pournelle and Flynn, named "Fallen Angels". I
>>can't understand how the three of them - whose other work I quite like
>>otherwise - managed to come up with such a terrible mess.
>
>
> A friend read "Fallen Angels" in his young teen young teen years. He was
> so stunned that anyone would put that much effort into vilifying a
> specific group of people
Truly an innocent. Even as a young teen I was quite aware that people
would put INFINITE effort into vilifying groups of people they didn't
like. "Fallen Angels" doesn't represent much effort on that level at all.
> ('greens' in this case), that he looked into
> 'green' causes. Some year later he ran for city council with the local
> Green Party & was elected.
While I've read Fallen Angels several times and enjoyed it immensely
each time.
David DeLaney
>Funny, I'm currently reading "The Tourmaline" - the second book of the
>trilogy; I don't find it so bad. Rather slow, but I didn't feel like
>throwing it at the wall yet :)
For me, I'm not even bothering to buy it. Usually I'll give another chance
if the first book was slow or somewhat boring, but this was force-myself-to-
finish icky.
>Hmm, haven't read any of the above. Latest "worst ever" fantasy book I read
>:) is Sarah Monnet's "The Virtu". I had read "Melusine", the first volume,
>and it was ok; unremarkable, but not terrible. The second was however so
>awful I just dropped the whole thing right there.
Huh. Our tastes obviously differ then; it was a page-turner for me, and I
await volume 3.
David DeLaney
>Jon Schild wrote:
>> I always thought, after attempting to slog through it, that Piers
>> Anthony's _Orn_ was the worst ever written. But it wasn't this bad.
>
> Piers has many faults, but he can write quite decent prose, and Orn
>is FAR from even the worst HE'S written, let alone the worst stuff
>EVER written.
Agreed. I'd give that to his Bio Of A Really Icky Space Tyrant series. (And
this is from someone who owns and has reread all of Xanth, as well as
Macroscope, Omnivore/Orn/Ox, Mercycle, and has been looking for Neq the Sword
to complete the Battle Circle for the last couple decades.)
Mike Schilling
> Sea Wasp <seawasp...@sgeObviousinc.com> wrote:
>> Jon Schild wrote:
>>> I always thought, after attempting to slog through it, that Piers
>>> Anthony's _Orn_ was the worst ever written. But it wasn't this
>>> bad.
>>
>> Piers has many faults, but he can write quite decent prose, and Orn
>> is FAR from even the worst HE'S written, let alone the worst stuff
>> EVER written.
>
> Agreed. I'd give that to his Bio Of A Really Icky Space Tyrant
> series. (And this is from someone who owns and has reread all of
> Xanth, as well as Macroscope, Omnivore/Orn/Ox, Mercycle, and has
> been
> looking for Neq the Sword to complete the Battle Circle for the last
> couple decades.)
http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?sts=t&tn=neq+the+sword&x=0&y=0
Mike Schilling
.
>
> Agreed. I'd give that to his Bio Of A Really Icky Space Tyrant
> series. (And this is from someone who owns and has reread all of
> Xanth, as well as Macroscope, Omnivore/Orn/Ox, Mercycle, and has
> been
> looking for Neq the Sword to complete the Battle Circle for the last
> couple decades.)
"The first rule of Battle Circle is you don't talk about Battle
Circle!"
tphile
In Footfall I enjoyed the SF writers think tank
In Fallen Angels I enjoyed the exploration of a subversive SF fan
underground
movement.and all the trivia and stuff that was new to me (like SF
using greek letters)
but in SF science has often wore both white and black hats, been hero
or villian.
It does make a point about "good intentions", that it can pave the
path to hell.
we think something like "green" is all good without considering the
long term consequences
or dealing with them.
Like Atomic power is good, without thinking about what to do with the
nuclear waste.
a case in point is the surge of raging out of control forest fires we
have been having.
I saw a 60 minutes report recently pointing out that the conservation
movement was
partly responsible for them.
Our protect the forests efforts were to good. that a forest needs to
burn occassionally
to get rid of the underbrush and "tinder" that builds up on the ground
and becomes instant
fuel that will even take down trees that are capable of surviving
small fires.
tphile
Gene Ward Smith
news:slrnfs3mm...@gatekeeper.vic.com:
> Agreed. I'd give that to his Bio Of A Really Icky Space
Tyrant series. (And
> this is from someone who owns and has reread all of Xanth,
as well as
> Macroscope, Omnivore/Orn/Ox, Mercycle, and has been looking
for Neq the Sword
> to complete the Battle Circle for the last couple decades.)
You are seriously warped, dude.
Gene Ward Smith
873b-dac...@s12g2000prg.googlegroups.com:
> In Footfall I enjoyed the SF writers think tank
That was the one thing I really hated.
Karl Johanson
> Karl Johanson wrote:
>> "Cosmin Corbea" <cosminc@spa_mtrap.canada.com.invalid> wrote
>>
>>
>>>As to worst SF book I read, it's hands down a vile concoction
>>>perpetrated by Niven, Pournelle and Flynn, named "Fallen Angels". I
>>>can't understand how the three of them - whose other work I quite
>>>like otherwise - managed to come up with such a terrible mess.
>>
>>
>> A friend read "Fallen Angels" in his young teen young teen years. He
>> was so stunned that anyone would put that much effort into vilifying
>> a specific group of people
>
> Truly an innocent. Even as a young teen I was quite aware that people
> would put INFINITE effort into vilifying groups of people they didn't
> like. "Fallen Angels" doesn't represent much effort on that level at
> all.
Another Green Party member introduced me to him, hoping I'd convince him
that nuclear energy was a viable idea. I did, but he doesn't want any
Orion launches: )
>> ('greens' in this case), that he looked into 'green' causes. Some
>> year later he ran for city council with the local Green Party & was
>> elected.
>
> While I've read Fallen Angels several times and enjoyed it immensely
> each time.
I enjoyed some of it. The notion that any group, including 'greens' can
be dangerous if misinformed, or ill motivated, is valid. The 'there are
no tame greens' bit was tiresome.
At the recent LA Worldcon, Jerry Pournelle repeated a common claim that
in the 1970's the 'scientific consensus' was that the world was headed
for an ice age. When he was asked if 'scientific consensus' meant that
the peer-reviewed science journal articles in the 70's all agreed, he
said, 'all of the panels at science conferences, he attended, were
talking about how to deal with a coming ice age.' This didn't define a
scientific consensus at all, of course, and talking about what to do
about a hypothetical scenario, is quite different than providing
scientific evidence that that scenario will happen at a given time.
Karl Johanson
GSV Three Minds in a Can
person David DeLaney <d...@gatekeeper.vic.com> said
>Sea Wasp <seawasp...@sgeObviousinc.com> wrote:
>>Jon Schild wrote:
>>> I always thought, after attempting to slog through it, that Piers
>>> Anthony's _Orn_ was the worst ever written. But it wasn't this bad.
>>
>> Piers has many faults, but he can write quite decent prose, and Orn
>>is FAR from even the worst HE'S written, let alone the worst stuff
>>EVER written.
>
>Agreed. I'd give that to his Bio Of A Really Icky Space Tyrant series. (And
>this is from someone who owns and has reread all of Xanth, as well as
>Macroscope, Omnivore/Orn/Ox, Mercycle, and has been looking for Neq the Sword
>to complete the Battle Circle for the last couple decades.)
I though battle circle was available as a one volume omnibus (assuming
we are talking MMPB) and even Neq should be available via ABEBOOKS,
unless you think that's cheating .. if it ain't, I'm sitting on a
goldmine ..
--
GSV Three Minds in a Can
11,020 Km walked. 2,118 Km PROWs surveyed. 38.3% complete.
David DeLaney
>David DeLaney wrote:
>> Agreed. I'd give that to his Bio Of A Really Icky Space Tyrant
>> series. (And this is from someone who owns and has reread all of
>> Xanth, as well as Macroscope, Omnivore/Orn/Ox, Mercycle, and has been
>> looking for Neq the Sword to complete the Battle Circle for the last
>> couple decades.)
>
>http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?sts=t&tn=neq+the+sword&x=0&y=0
All in the UK, for some reason. (And ... if I ever start buying books online,
I don't think I'll be able to STOP.)
Dave "addictive personalities" DeLaney
David DeLaney
>d...@gatekeeper.vic.com (David DeLaney) wrote in
>> this is from someone who owns and has reread all of Xanth, as well as
>> Macroscope, Omnivore/Orn/Ox, Mercycle, and has been looking for Neq the Sword
>> to complete the Battle Circle for the last couple decades.)
>
>You are seriously warped, dude.
Well, I've pointed to my book database before... It's not so much that I _like_
the Battle Circle trilogy a lot? It's more that I have the first two, and want
to get the third to complete it, and all I ever find is the omnibus trilogy
edition. Of course now it's 20-some years later than when I started looking,
upping the difficulty factor by a chunk, too. But these things don't stop
bugging me, if only in a very minor way, until I resolve them.
mimus
> Mike Schilling <mscotts...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>David DeLaney wrote:
>>
>>> Agreed. I'd give that to his Bio Of A Really Icky Space Tyrant
>>> series. (And this is from someone who owns and has reread all of
>>> Xanth, as well as Macroscope, Omnivore/Orn/Ox, Mercycle, and has been
>>> looking for Neq the Sword to complete the Battle Circle for the last
>>> couple decades.)
>>
>>http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?sts=t&tn=neq+the+sword&x=0&y=0
>
> All in the UK, for some reason. (And ... if I ever start buying books online,
> I don't think I'll be able to STOP.)
>
> Dave "addictive personalities" DeLaney
Um . . . reminds me . . . I need help . . . abebooks is evil . . . .
--
I wonder what I have been up to.
< _Beyond Apollo_
Mike Schilling
> Mike Schilling <mscotts...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> David DeLaney wrote:
>>> Agreed. I'd give that to his Bio Of A Really Icky Space Tyrant
>>> series. (And this is from someone who owns and has reread all of
>>> Xanth, as well as Macroscope, Omnivore/Orn/Ox, Mercycle, and has
>>> been looking for Neq the Sword to complete the Battle Circle for
>>> the last couple decades.)
>>
>> http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?sts=t&tn=neq+the+sword&x=0&y=0
>
> All in the UK, for some reason.
Strewth. Though the same earch for "Battle Circle", which I believe
collects all of them, shows many in the US starting at about $6.00 .
> (And ... if I ever start buying books
> online, I don't think I'll be able to STOP.)
And the first one's free!
Mike Schilling
It does lead me to buy whole series (because they're all available now
and might not be in the future) which I find after book 1 or 2 that
I'm less than crazy about.
erilar
d...@gatekeeper.vic.com (David DeLaney) wrote:
> Well, I've pointed to my book database before... It's not so much that I
> _like_
> the Battle Circle trilogy a lot? It's more that I have the first two, and
> want
> to get the third to complete it, and all I ever find is the omnibus trilogy
> edition. Of course now it's 20-some years later than when I started looking,
> upping the difficulty factor by a chunk, too. But these things don't stop
> bugging me, if only in a very minor way, until I resolve them.
hmmmmm I think I have a copy up in the A's. . .
--
Mary Loomer Oliver (aka Erilar)
You can't reason with someone whose first line of argument is
that reason doesn't count. --Isaac Asimov
Erilar's Cave Annex: http://www.chibardun.net/~erilarlo
Matthias Warkus
Fan service at its worst. When I was twelve, I loved it.
mawa
--
http://www.prellblog.de
tphile
> tphile <tph...@cableone.net> wrote in news:ca55e58d-d1e8-48c3-
>
> > In Footfall I enjoyed the SF writers think tank
>
> That was the one thing I really hated.
Somehow that doesn't suprise me in at all
tphile
Chris Thompson
Matthias Warkus <War...@students.uni-marburg.de> wrote:
>Gene Ward Smith schrieb:
>> tphile <tph...@cableone.net> wrote in news:ca55e58d-d1e8-48c3-
>> 873b-dac...@s12g2000prg.googlegroups.com:
>>
>>> In Footfall I enjoyed the SF writers think tank
>>
>> That was the one thing I really hated.
>
>Fan service at its worst. When I was twelve, I loved it.
(Ah, the Golden Age)
It wasn't good, but it was as nothing compared to the fanwankery in
_Fallen Angels_.
Introducing a coterie of (real, or look-alike) SF authors into an Sf
story is (nearly?) always disastrous. I'm thinking, for example, of
the ending of Jack McDevitt's _Ancient Shores_. (McDevitt often has
problems with his endings, but this one was ... exceptional.)
_Are_ there any counter-examples?
--
Chris Thompson
Email: cet1 [at] cam.ac.uk
Quadibloc
wrote:
> William Briggs wrote this amusing review of the worst SF book ever.
>
>
> Are there any challengers for place and show?
This certainly sounds much worse than, say, the America 2000 series of
novels by some of the authors of Wagons West. So I don't think I've
read anything that might be a close second.
John Savard
Quadibloc
> That part was an exaggeration: I just find two copies for sale online.
> The funny thing is, when I google on "John Smith Emperor"+"gallego" I
> get two hits, for those two booksellers; but when I just google on
> "John Smith Emperor", expecting to get *more* hits, I get only one
> hit, not for the book, but for some kind of gambling den. Could one of
> you internet-savvy people kindly explain to me how that works?
Didn't work for me that way on Google, but three booksellers now have
it on Abebooks.
John Savard
Quadibloc
> A very ambitious book by a pretty fair author, but so terrible:
> ALGORITHM, by Jean Mark Gawron. Reduced me to reading sentence by
> sentence, with absolutely no comprehension of what was happening, just
> to say I finished it.
Could an important Klingon character in ST:TNG have been named after
him?
John Savard
Quadibloc
wrote:
> Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
> > In article <Ul5wj.12254$Ch6.1...@newssvr11.news.prodigy.net>,
> > Mike Schilling <mscottschill...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
> >>> In article <iI4wj.13236$0w.2...@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net>,
> >>> Mike Schilling <mscottschill...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> OK, a bad place to go to.
>
> >>> Still better than "come from".
>
> >> C'mon, boys and girls, this one isn't that difficult.
>
> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Come_from
>
> Let me ALTER my previous statement.
Oh, boy. But how many people will get this joke? I hadn't heard of the
ALTER GOTO statement in COBOL until it was discussed in another
newsgroup - and it indeed went beylond any perversion of computer
languages that I imagined could happen in reality!
It is *particularly* bad in a language used for writing programs that
handle money.
John Savard
Quadibloc
wrote:
> Wizard's Fist Rule? Pretty cheesy stuff.
If you mean Wizard's First Rule, it was entertaining. It was the
*later* books that really went off the rails, even if it is true the
series began with a bit too much S&M stuff.
Since we're talking SF and not fantasy, I suppose we could nominate...
Gor. At least worse than WFR, even if there is worse stuff than it...
John Savard
Cosmin Corbea
"David DeLaney" <d...@gatekeeper.vic.com> wrote in message
news:slrnfs3mi...@gatekeeper.vic.com...
> Cosmin Corbea <cosminc@spa_mtrap.canada.com.invalid> wrote:
>>Hmm, haven't read any of the above. Latest "worst ever" fantasy book I
>>read
>>:) is Sarah Monnet's "The Virtu". I had read "Melusine", the first volume,
>>and it was ok; unremarkable, but not terrible. The second was however so
>>awful I just dropped the whole thing right there.
>
> Huh. Our tastes obviously differ then; it was a page-turner for me, and I
> await volume 3.
Well, clearly an YMMV. I felt the behavior of the main characters in the
second volume was completely at odds with their actions in the first one; I
wanted to grab them by the scruff of their necks, shake them and tell them
to get real. On top of that the author's homosexual/incestuous references
became boring after the first hundred repetitions or so. Maybe the intention
was to shock, but it didn't work for me. And since the whole subplot doesn't
add to the story in any way, it seems just an airing of the auctorial
obsessions; at points, the book felt too much like a purple Harlequin
"romance".
BTW, the third volume, "The Mirador" is already out (in hardback). And I
misspelled the author's name, sorry. It's Sarah Monette.
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
_The Flying Sorcerers_?
Ted
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Wayne Throop
:: story is (nearly?) always disastrous. I'm thinking, for example, of
:: the ending of Jack McDevitt's _Ancient Shores_. (McDevitt often has
:: problems with his endings, but this one was ... exceptional.)
::
:: _Are_ there any counter-examples?
: t...@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>)
: _The Flying Sorcerers_?
Murder at the ABA? (If I'm remembering it even vaguely right,
which I may well not be; I may have conflated it with various
scifi convention anecdotes heard Nth-hand.)
Wayne Throop thr...@sheol.org http://sheol.org/throopw
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Yes, but that's not an SF book, or I would have said _Rocket to the Morgue_...
Gene Ward Smith
@sheol.org:
> Murder at the ABA? (If I'm remembering it even vaguely
right,
> which I may well not be; I may have conflated it with
various
> scifi convention anecdotes heard Nth-hand.)
>
If that's sf I suppose Rocket to the Morgue is also.
Joseph Nebus
Murder At The ABA isn't at all a science fiction novel, though;
it's a fairly direct murder mystery. Asimov appears as a character in
it (and not the viewpoint character), although he's presented as working
most recently on a mystery novel.
The murder victim, I believe, is a science fiction writer,
and the viewpoint character is based to some extent on Harlan Ellison
although here cast as a mystery writer.
As I recall, Carl Sagan 'appears', but in a panel described and
that happens off-camera.
--
Joseph Nebus
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
tphile
Fredrick Browns Martian Go Home has an SF writer as a central
character
Niven and Pournells Inferno has an SF writer going thru an updated
Dante's
Inferno.
There is nothing wrong with a story plot that has sf writers dealing
with an SF
type event. Its as valid a plot as any other.
and whether it works or not depends on the writer skills just as all
stories do.
so would a story about a group of mystery writers or fans gathering to
solve a
murder.
Murder by Death gathered famous fictional detectives and was very
entertaining
Now a reality show sitcom premise that collected members of this group
together, THAT can get very scary
;-)
tphile
Butch Malahide
> Introducing a coterie of (real, or look-alike) SF authors into an Sf
> story is (nearly?) always disastrous. I'm thinking, for example, of
> the ending of Jack McDevitt's _Ancient Shores_. (McDevitt often has
> problems with his endings, but this one was ... exceptional.)
>
> _Are_ there any counter-examples?
It worked just fine for me (ymmv) in Chapter 17 of DeChancie &
Bischoff's _Dr. Dimension_:
"That's the spirit!" cried A.E. "I know! The Pizons are really part of
a cosmic conspiracy to sell weapons to the interdimensional Nazis!"
"Wait a minute!" said the man who had been called "Ted." "Where's the
_love_. Where's the _feeling_? Here you go. Try this one. The
_Mudlark_ runs into a planet of hermaphrodite rutabagas and the crew
discovers the meaning of free sex."
"No!" said the man called "Bob." "We'll have them all go through loops
and hoops of time, meeting themselves in the past and then in the
future when they've all become galaxy-class athletes. We'll call that
section 'By Their Jockstraps'!"
"Wrong!" said the man called "Jack." "Where's the space patrol!
Where's the law and order involved here!"
"Right!" said Edmund. "We need heaps and heaps of ludicrous, silly
science!"
"Quiet! Quiet, you dopes!" yelled John, glaring at them all. "Now this
is _supposed_ to be a civil game of poker, and a round robin space-
opera novel for one of the lesser paying pulp magazines, to buy beer
and whiskey and pretzels and donuts for out games--not a free-for-
all!" He turned to the man wearing the wire-rimmed glasses. "Doc, just
do what you want but please try and be grammatical for a change! And
be sparing with the tractor beams. These things are _farming_ science
fiction!"
[Hmm. I could sworn that was funny the first time I read it.]
--
John shrugged, examining the set of cards he'd just been dealt. "Ah.
Take out some adjectives, throw in a few atomic bombs. This editing
business is easy!"
AJ
"Butch Malahide" <fred....@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:7c476c6b-fced-4352...@d5g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
How strange... I know the meaning of all of those words, yet when strung
togeather like that they lose all meaning.
Stewart Robert Hinsley
<tednolan>" <t...@loft.tnolan.com> writes
As far as I know all that was introduced there was a name, so it
wouldn't count.
Ringo introduced some into "Princess of Wands" - I don't know enough of
the context to tell whether it was a disaster or not.
--
Stewart Robert Hinsley
Ken from Chicago
"Lawrence Watt-Evans" <l...@sff.net> wrote in message
news:1qevr3tapm1chgl4u...@news.rcn.com...
> On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 06:09:34 GMT, Terry Austin <taus...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>"alanm...@yahoo.com" <alanm...@yahoo.com> wrote in
>>news:a04c1db4-1949-4177...@i12g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
>>
>>> William Briggs wrote this amusing review of the worst SF book ever.
>>>
>>> more-7
>>>
>>> Are there any challengers for place and show?- A. McIntire
>>>
>>That might actually be worse than everything written by Marion Zimmer
>>Bradley.
>
> Well, yes -- she's hardly in the same league as Lionel Fanthorpe, or
> LaVerne Ross, or H. Turk. (Okay, Ross and Turk wrote fantasy, rather
> than science fiction -- does that rule them out?)
Lawrence, are you really trying to restart a SF/F debate? >=^>
> Douglas K. Bell surely deserves a mention, as well.
>
> Oh, and perhaps the Steinbergs, pere et fils?
>
>
>
>
> --
> My webpage is at http://www.watt-evans.com
> The seventh issue of Helix is now at http://www.helixsf.com
It might be that bad traditional fantasy is worse than bad traditional
science fiction, especially to writers and readers of good fantasy, because
the creators of said bad traditional fantasy just have stuff happen without
rhyme or reason; hiding behind the hoary old lame excuse: It's magic.
-- Ken from Chicago
Howard Brazee
magician fights with the author of the novel.
Walter Bushell
positive; Jack Lemon ate the negative.
Paul Clarke
> Introducing a coterie of (real, or look-alike) SF authors into an Sf
> story is (nearly?) always disastrous. I'm thinking, for example, of
> the ending of Jack McDevitt's _Ancient Shores_. (McDevitt often has
> problems with his endings, but this one was ... exceptional.)
>
> _Are_ there any counter-examples?
The white magicians in James Blish's _Black Easter_ are apparently
based on various SF authors. Maybe it works because they are, AFAIR,
pretty ineffectual.
James Nicoll
Ken from Chicago <kwicker1...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>It might be that bad traditional fantasy is worse than bad traditional
>science fiction, especially to writers and readers of good fantasy, because
>the creators of said bad traditional fantasy just have stuff happen without
>rhyme or reason; hiding behind the hoary old lame excuse: It's magic.
>
"quantum" and "nanotech".
--
http://www.livejournal.com/users/james_nicoll
http://www.cafepress.com/jdnicoll (For all your "The problem with
defending the English language [...]" T-shirt, cup and tote-bag needs)
David Cowie
> In article <zbGdnTSYlInCBF_a...@comcast.com>,
> Ken from Chicago <kwicker1...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>It might be that bad traditional fantasy is worse than bad traditional
>>science fiction, especially to writers and readers of good fantasy, because
>>the creators of said bad traditional fantasy just have stuff happen without
>>rhyme or reason; hiding behind the hoary old lame excuse: It's magic.
>>
> In modern SF, the role played by magic in fantasy is filled by
> "quantum" and "nanotech".
>
>
From CENTURY RAIN by Alastair Reynolds:
"We call it a quantum snapshot, but that doesn't mean we have clue one
about what was involved in producing it. That's just a name we give it
to hide our ignorance."
--
David Cowie
Containment Failure + 37535:03
William Hyde
> I have the impression that Orn was Piers' attempt to be really literate.
I think it's one step down from that. With "Chthon", "The Ring" (co-
authored with Margroff) and possibly "Macroscope" he's
being literary/serious. I think this is the writer he'd have liked to
be. But aside from Macroscope, how much did those sell? "The Ring"
was an Ace SF special with a good blurb by Simak in the days when that
sort of thing meant something, but I don't recall it ever being
mentioned on this group. He says that Chthon took years to write, for
next to no money.
> When it wasn't appreciated, he gave up and decided to be popular instead.
When the Ox trilogy came out I thought that he was deliberately
setting his sights a bit lower to gather more sales. The process
continued until he hit his mark, I guess.
William Hyde
Lawrence Watt-Evans
Nicoll) wrote:
>In article <zbGdnTSYlInCBF_a...@comcast.com>,
>Ken from Chicago <kwicker1...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>It might be that bad traditional fantasy is worse than bad traditional
>>science fiction, especially to writers and readers of good fantasy, because
>>the creators of said bad traditional fantasy just have stuff happen without
>>rhyme or reason; hiding behind the hoary old lame excuse: It's magic.
>>
> In modern SF, the role played by magic in fantasy is filled by
>"quantum" and "nanotech".
In Pratchett's Discworld, magic even wizards can't understand is also
labeled "quantum."
Lawrence Watt-Evans
<kwicker1...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>"Lawrence Watt-Evans" <l...@sff.net> wrote in message
>news:1qevr3tapm1chgl4u...@news.rcn.com...
>> On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 06:09:34 GMT, Terry Austin <taus...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>"alanm...@yahoo.com" <alanm...@yahoo.com> wrote in
>>>news:a04c1db4-1949-4177...@i12g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
>>>
>>>> William Briggs wrote this amusing review of the worst SF book ever.
>>>>
>>>> http://wmbriggs.com/blog/2006/12/06/worst-science-fiction-of-all-time/#
>>>> more-7
>>>>
>>>> Are there any challengers for place and show?- A. McIntire
>>>>
>>>That might actually be worse than everything written by Marion Zimmer
>>>Bradley.
>>
>> Well, yes -- she's hardly in the same league as Lionel Fanthorpe, or
>> LaVerne Ross, or H. Turk. (Okay, Ross and Turk wrote fantasy, rather
>> than science fiction -- does that rule them out?)
>
>Lawrence, are you really trying to restart a SF/F debate? >=^>
Actually, I was trying to head one off by presenting Ross and Turk in
the form "If SF=a=b, then Ross & Turk; if SF=only a, then not Ross &
Turk," without specifying whether SF included b in this case.
mimus
Malzberg's _Gather in the Hall of the Planets_ works great.
His _Herovit's World_, too, but that's mostly just one, come to the end of
his rope.
--
Since when is a mechanical cow an act of God?
< Goulart
Chuk Goodin
>
>Hmm, haven't read any of the above. Latest "worst ever" fantasy book I read
>:) is Sarah Monnet's "The Virtu". I had read "Melusine", the first volume,
>and it was ok; unremarkable, but not terrible. The second was however so
>awful I just dropped the whole thing right there.
Well, that sucks. I just finished Melusine and thought the same: not
totally awesome, but certainly readable. What was bad about the sequel?
--
chuk
Andrew Plotkin
I thought _The Virtu_ gained over the first book by having two
characters with intentions. As opposed to one character with no grasp
of reality and one who was struggling to keep them both afloat as the
plot chased them across a continent.
Also (and in related point), _The Virtu_ had an ending.
I recommend them, but I recommend reading the pair as one novel. (And
now that I've read the third, I suspect I will have the same opinion
of the third and fourth -- keep together.)
--Z
--
"And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the borogoves..."
*
When Bush says "Stay the course," what he means is "I don't know what to
do next." He's been saying this for years now.
douglas winston
1993 The Kruton Interface by John DeChancie p.39 quantum drive;
2003 Omega by Jack McDevitt p.182 quantum mechanics.
Quadibloc
> Was made into a movie which no one ever saw. Max Senate ate the
> positive; Jack Lemon ate the negative.
Not Mack Sennett and Jack Lemmon?
John Savard