Emphyrio by Jack Vance
Joy Beeson
Took _Horizon_ back to the library today, and decided to turn in
_Emphyrio_ while I was at it even though I hadn't read it yet.
Read the opening: a scene of disgusting torture. Sampled here and
there: no burning urge to see what happened next, nor any desire to
see how this situation came to be. Read the ending: as unsatisfying
as the ending of _The Vicar of Wakefield_.
I'll try some other Vance later -- but this time I brought home Kurtz'
_Saint Patrick's Gargoyle_. I was quite willing to put it down at the
end of the first chapter, but I'm pretty sure I'll pick it up again
tomorrow night.
And I had a lovely Tour d' Warsaw on the way to the library and back.
The entire Beyer Trail is above water, and only one short section
looks as though it had been wet, but the street giving access to the
west end is under Pike Lake. Or under one of the creeks flowing into
Pike, depending on your point of view.
Joy Beeson
--
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://roughsewing.home.comcast.net/ -- sewing
http://n3f.home.comcast.net/ -- Writers' Exchange
The above message is a Usenet post.
I don't recall having given anyone permission to use it on a Web site.
Martha Adams
news:istor45e0n857ovhe...@4ax.com...
==============================================
Hi, Joy. Yes, Emphyrio starts with a dark scene, and it has serious
darkness thru it; but maybe if you go back and work through the dark
parts you will find more in it. For one thing, here Vance does his
usual 'maybe tongue-in-cheek but with him you can't tell' study of
something about society. In Emphyrio, it's social welfare programs. He
also comes on strong about a society of haves and have-nots, and how it
works. So yes, Emphyrio has serious darkness in it, but I think if you
choose not to read it, you also avoid some of the wry dry Vancian humor
that, who knows, you might find you have a taste for. (As I do.)
Something about Emphyrio particularly caught my attention. I don't
think the story as published, is as Vance wrote it. I think that
opening scene was brought from inside the book to the front of the book,
as a hook to catch readers. It looks to me like, where you are
concerned, the hook fails.
Titeotwawki -- mha [rasfw 2009 Mar 15]
Mike Schilling
> Something about Emphyrio particularly caught my attention. I don't
> think the story as published, is as Vance wrote it. I think that
> opening scene was brought from inside the book to the front of the
> book, as a hook to catch readers. It looks to me like, where you
> are
> concerned, the hook fails.
That scene also starts the book in the VIE, which does its best to
represent Vance's original intent. Googling Cosmoplis (the VIE
newsleter), I can't find any discussion suggesting that versions
structured differently exist.
Martha Adams
news:Clbvl.22310$Ws1....@nlpi064.nbdc.sbc.com...
===========================================
Hi, Mike. Well, Vance can start a story in the most dry way possible,
very like an academic paper. You have to read in a little to see
Vance's social humor and perceptions begin to develop. For instance,
his 'Trullion, Alastor 2262 (1973)' starts with "Out toward the rim of
the galaxy hangs Alastor Cluster, a whorl of thirty thousand...." You
can look at others of his books and see comparable non-active starts.
Some writers on writing say you want to start your book with a hook --
something to grab the reader. Vance seems not to take that advice very
seriously. So as I was reading 'Emphyrio,' I thought, it looks to me
like an editor didn't like a typically Vancian beginning, so he moved
some text around to make the work more as he thought it should be. I am
sure you can compare the start of 'Emphyrio' with several other Vancian
beginnings, and arrive as I did, to suspect Vance's original 'Emphyrio'
was different from what appears in the book.
netcat
jbe...@invalid.net.invalid says...
>
>
> Took _Horizon_ back to the library today, and decided to turn in
> _Emphyrio_ while I was at it even though I hadn't read it yet.
>
> Read the opening: a scene of disgusting torture. Sampled here and
> there: no burning urge to see what happened next, nor any desire to
> see how this situation came to be. Read the ending: as unsatisfying
> as the ending of _The Vicar of Wakefield_.
Some years ago, when I considered which novel should represent Vance in
my small collection, I picked _Emphyrio_ after reading a couple
positively raving reviews about it. I believe Matthew Hughes called it
"quintessential Vance in one short novel, with a wonderfully tragic
climax", and he, if anyone, should know, right? Rich Horton noted that
it's one of Vance's more melancholy books, which, in my eyes, could only
be a plus since I've discovered I don't care for his humour much. He
also praised the wonderful local colour, fascinating social structures
and "a very satisfying depiction of an odd, lonely but happy,
childhood". All just the sort of stuff to draw me in.
And the cover of the British edition was beautiful.
I did not get what I expected. Sure, there was some intriguing local
colour, I was quite interested especially in the absolute ban on
duplication and how it affected local industry, but it all fell apart
for me rather quickly when my WSOD started to crumble. The interesting
local colour gave way to the - well, I can't call them "usual", since
I'm not a Vance expert, really, but this has bothered me in many of his
works - lets say frequent - ludicrous, even farcical situations and
solutions. What could have worked as a SF novel turned into some kind of
parody of itself. The final blow came when the protagonist underwent
something like a brain surgery under absolutely unbelievable conditions.
I don't think I cared much what happened after that, as evidenced by
that I can't even recall how the book ended - even though I finished it.
If I may subvert the thread - and if any of our resident Vance experts
are still resident - what would you recommend to someone who expected to
like _The Languages of Pao_ and _Emphyrio_ and had about the same WSOD-
breaking reaction to both of them? I absolutely hated _Morreion_, so I'm
not touching any Old Earth stories. Yet I'm convinced Vance must have
written something else besides "Moon Moth" that I might like.
rgds,
netcat
htn963
> Some years ago, when I considered which novel should represent Vance in
> my small collection, I picked _Emphyrio_ after reading a couple
> positively raving reviews about it. I believe Matthew Hughes called it
> "quintessential Vance in one short novel, with a wonderfully tragic
> climax", and he, if anyone, should know, right? Rich Horton noted that
> it's one of Vance's more melancholy books, which, in my eyes, could only
> be a plus since I've discovered I don't care for his humour much. He
> also praised the wonderful local colour, fascinating social structures
> and "a very satisfying depiction of an odd, lonely but happy,
> childhood". All just the sort of stuff to draw me in.
Sometimes even the experts can steer you wrong if your and their
tastes do not match. There are some people here whose knowledge I duly
concede, but I would not easily accept recommendations from them,
except perhaps in the reverse.
> And the cover of the British edition was beautiful.
Judging a book by its cover, eh?! Fie! Fie!
> I did not get what I expected. Sure, there was some intriguing local
> colour, I was quite interested especially in the absolute ban on
> duplication and how it affected local industry, but it all fell apart
> for me rather quickly when my WSOD started to crumble. The interesting
> local colour gave way to the - well, I can't call them "usual", since
> I'm not a Vance expert, really, but this has bothered me in many of his
> works - lets say frequent - ludicrous, even farcical situations and
> solutions. What could have worked as a SF novel turned into some kind of
> parody of itself.
Yep, Vance often does this. It's part of his patented arch, ironic
style.
>The final blow came when the protagonist underwent
> something like a brain surgery under absolutely unbelievable conditions.
> I don't think I cared much what happened after that, as evidenced by
> that I can't even recall how the book ended - even though I finished it.
>
> If I may subvert the thread - and if any of our resident Vance experts
> are still resident - what would you recommend to someone who expected to
> like _The Languages of Pao_ and _Emphyrio_ and had about the same WSOD-
> breaking reaction to both of them? I absolutely hated _Morreion_, so I'm
> not touching any Old Earth stories. Yet I'm convinced Vance must have
> written something else besides "Moon Moth" that I might like.
I'm not claiming to be a Vance expert (yet), but try _To Live
Forever_. It's probably Vance's most straight and sfnal work (with a
minimum of his usual stylistic wanking), and one of the best works
dealing with the subject of immortality I've read.
--
Ht
netcat
@y33g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, htn...@live.com says...
> On Mar 16, 5:13 am, netcat <net...@devnull.eridani.eol.ee> wrote:
> > And the cover of the British edition was beautiful.
>
> Judging a book by its cover, eh?! Fie! Fie!
Not quite so. I've very rarely bought a book solely because I liked the
cover and/or title, one was a cat-themed anthology and another was
Miller Lau's _Talisker_ (both were disappointments, content-wise) but I
refuse to buy an ugly edition, on principle.
> > If I may subvert the thread - and if any of our resident Vance experts
> > are still resident - what would you recommend to someone who expected to
> > like _The Languages of Pao_ and _Emphyrio_ and had about the same WSOD-
> > breaking reaction to both of them? I absolutely hated _Morreion_, so I'm
> > not touching any Old Earth stories. Yet I'm convinced Vance must have
> > written something else besides "Moon Moth" that I might like.
>
> I'm not claiming to be a Vance expert (yet), but try _To Live
> Forever_. It's probably Vance's most straight and sfnal work (with a
> minimum of his usual stylistic wanking), and one of the best works
> dealing with the subject of immortality I've read.
OK, making a note, thanks.
rgds,
netcat
Rich Horton
<net...@devnull.eridani.eol.ee> wrote:
>If I may subvert the thread - and if any of our resident Vance experts
>are still resident - what would you recommend to someone who expected to
>like _The Languages of Pao_ and _Emphyrio_ and had about the same WSOD-
>breaking reaction to both of them? I absolutely hated _Morreion_, so I'm
>not touching any Old Earth stories. Yet I'm convinced Vance must have
>written something else besides "Moon Moth" that I might like.
It appears you are annoyed when Vance doesn't make scientific sense --
which he never does! I mean, you are absolutely right about the
WSOD-breaking aspects of PAO and EMPHYRIO -- it's just that for me, in
that context, those don't matter. Neither, to me, do his absurd
spaceships (as I've noted elsewhere, the characters more or less hop
in and press the accelerator and then they're at the next planet).
So I might suggest the occasional short story (like "The Moon Moth")
where I don't think that comes up at all -- "Green Magic", perhaps?
Have you read "The Last Castle"? That might work. "The Men Return"?
Alternately you could leave the genre entirely. I am very fond of his
Sheriff Joe Bain mystery novels, for example (though they can be hard
to find -- I used Interlibrary Loan).
Mike Schilling
>
> Alternately you could leave the genre entirely. I am very fond of his
> Sheriff Joe Bain mystery novels, for example (though they can be hard
> to find -- I used Interlibrary Loan).
Or read his fanatsy, where WSOD isn't an issue. I'd recommend the Lyonesse
series in particular.
Gene
news:f4vtr4d02litier2d...@4ax.com:
> It appears you are annoyed when Vance doesn't make scientific sense
Why? He isn't exceptionally bad in that department.
--
"It's not like there is much that is universal among economists." -- Shawn
Wilson
Mike Schilling
> Rich Horton <rrho...@prodigy.net> rote in
> news:f4vtr4d02litier2d...@4ax.com:
>
>> It appears you are annoyed when Vance doesn't make scientific sense
>
> Why? He isn't exceptionally bad in that department.
Vance is exceptionally innumerate. Anything he writes involving
arithmetic (particularly when the subject is gambling odds) will
invariably be wrong.
Martha Adams
==============================================
Maybe so, but Vancian errors always have the fascinating Vancian touch,
and they work within the environment. I read Vance for his remarkable
richness, not to check it against my math and physics books. I think
also, a number of cultural anthropologists who have seen his work, must
be sitting around unhappy as they observe Vance's toss-off footnotes
like years of hard research in reality. ...A bowl of Darsh ahagaree,
anyone?
Titeotwawki -- mha [rasfw 2009 Mar 17]
arch...@googlemail.com
> I did not get what I expected. Sure, there was some intriguing local
> colour, I was quite interested especially in the absolute ban on
> duplication and how it affected local industry, but it all fell apart
> for me rather quickly when my WSOD started to crumble.
Emphyrio works on a mythic level, even more so than most of Vance's
stories. If you have trouble suspending disbelief, it may be that
you're processing the tale through the wrong lobe of your brain.
Vance is not actually a science-fictioneer. He is a fantasist who
sets his stories among science fiction tropes.
BTW, for those interested, Subterranean Press will publish his
autobiography -- "This is Me, Jack Vance!" -- in the next year.
Matt Hughes
http://www.archonate.com
Gene
@v1g2000prd.googlegroups.com:
> Vance is not actually a science-fictioneer. He is a fantasist who
* sets his stories among science fiction tropes.
That's what science fiction mostly is-fantasies using science fiction tropes.
Some of his stuff is fantasy outright, and that's what you seem most in tune
with, but it's hardly all he wrote.
Mike Schilling
> arch...@googlemail.com rote in
> news:fd560c25-429f-427d-908f-b9d2096a0a81
> @v1g2000prd.googlegroups.com:
>
>> Vance is not actually a science-fictioneer. He is a fantasist who
> * sets his stories among science fiction tropes.
>
> That's what science fiction mostly is-fantasies using science fiction
> tropes. Some of his stuff is fantasy outright, and that's what you
> seem most in tune with, but it's hardly all he wrote.
Vance's work ranges from the SF content being irrelevant ("The Moon Moth")
to purely fanciful ("The Kokod Warriors") to taken fairly seriously ("The
Gift of Gab"). He wasn't at his best at the last: the VIE includes a rather
thick volume entitled "Gadget Stories", which are mostly quite awful.
arch...@googlemail.com
wrote:
> Gene wrote:
> > archon...@googlemail.com rote in
I'm not a true Vance aficionado, but my take on his progress is that
he used to try to write science fiction, until he decided that the
fiction component was more to his taste than the science. After which
he soared.
Matt Hughes
http://www.archonate.com
netcat
@v1g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, arch...@googlemail.com says...
> On Mar 16, 6:13 am, netcat <net...@devnull.eridani.eol.ee> wrote:
>
> > I did not get what I expected. Sure, there was some intriguing local
> > colour, I was quite interested especially in the absolute ban on
> > duplication and how it affected local industry, but it all fell apart
> > for me rather quickly when my WSOD started to crumble.
>
> Emphyrio works on a mythic level, even more so than most of Vance's
> stories. If you have trouble suspending disbelief, it may be that
> you're processing the tale through the wrong lobe of your brain.
I have usually no trouble with the mythic level. Maybe there's something
about his work that manages to send me the wrong signals?
> Vance is not actually a science-fictioneer. He is a fantasist who
> sets his stories among science fiction tropes.
Yes, see, usually this is the kind of stuff I usually like.
rgds,
netcat
netcat
rrho...@prodigy.net says...
> It appears you are annoyed when Vance doesn't make scientific sense --
> which he never does! I mean, you are absolutely right about the
> WSOD-breaking aspects of PAO and EMPHYRIO -- it's just that for me, in
> that context, those don't matter. Neither, to me, do his absurd
> spaceships (as I've noted elsewhere, the characters more or less hop
> in and press the accelerator and then they're at the next planet).
It must be more complicated than that. I'm not usually one for letting
the nitpicking interfere with my enjoyment of a story. I'm ok with
fantastical, mythical or unexplained elements in SF, or technobabble in
my fantasy, and so on. I liked Cunningham's _Specimen Days_ very much as
a reading experience, despite it being very mediocre as SF.
And I did not expect Vance to make rigorous scientific sense - or even
be "locally hard" in all contexts.
Even so, there are some things that just don't work for me and a novel
that's supposedly all about how language affects society describing a
society that would never work is one of them.
As is a scene involving mucking with a person's brain that would not end
well in a world where otherwise, people's bodies seem to work as normal
people's bodies do.
And "Morreion" didn't make any kind of sense, but what made it painful
for me was that it obviously attempted to be humorous in a way that
didn't really work at all.
Maybe it's the 'farcical' element that is not compatible with me.
Some of Sheckley's shorts evoke the same reaction.
> So I might suggest the occasional short story (like "The Moon Moth")
> where I don't think that comes up at all -- "Green Magic", perhaps?
> Have you read "The Last Castle"? That might work. "The Men Return"?
No to all of them. "The Last Castle" has been recommended by so many
that I'll probably try this next and let you know how it went.
> Alternately you could leave the genre entirely. I am very fond of his
> Sheriff Joe Bain mystery novels, for example (though they can be hard
> to find -- I used Interlibrary Loan).
You call that hard to find? Try living in Estonia. I did a global search
on Jack Vance as author in all libraries (including academic libraries)
in our two largest cities, and only one copy of _The Narrow Land_ came
up.
Vance is not well known here and none of his novels have been translated
as of yet. So I had no high expectations (which is why I've never
bothered to look before) but still, that's bloody pathetic.
I'm sure if I went in requesting his novels as international ILL they'd
think I was bonkers. Not to mention, that the ILL rules are totally
ridiculous here, so only someone who truly is bonkers would use it
instead of locating the book for purchase:
You can only use it for reading the copy on premises; wait times for it
to arrive from, for example, Scandinavian countries, are supposedly 2-3
weeks and from anywhere further, on the order of months; oh and you have
to pay the postage costs for returning the copy.
rgds,
netcat
mimus
> Took _Horizon_ back to the library today, and decided to turn in
> _Emphyrio_ while I was at it even though I hadn't read it yet.
>
> Read the opening: a scene of disgusting torture. Sampled here and
> there: no burning urge to see what happened next, nor any desire to
> see how this situation came to be. Read the ending: as unsatisfying
> as the ending of _The Vicar of Wakefield_.
_Emphyrio_ is a dark and claustrophobic novel, as much so as the
living-quarters of the alien rulers in the novel:
It is not typical of his novels in that respect.
> I'll try some other Vance later
Oh, absolutely.
Try _Maske:Thaery_ first. Perhaps his single finest gem. And involves a
pleasant "mixmastering" of Britain (the island).
--
Decorum, after all, was a more subtle and ultimately more
satisfactory weapon than high feelings and improper conduct.
< Vance
Rich Horton
wrote:
>Try _Maske:Thaery_ first. Perhaps his single finest gem. And involves a
>pleasant "mixmastering" of Britain (the island).
Indeed, this is another of my favorite Vances -- and not a very well
known one, for some reason or other.
Mike Schilling
Most of his standalone books seem to be overshadowed by the series
books, _Emphyrio_ being a partial exception.
sigi...@yahoo.com
wrote:
> Most of his standalone books seem to be overshadowed by the series
> books, _Emphyrio_ being a partial exception.
I'm pretty sure _Maske: Thaery_ was intended to start a series.
Doug M.
sigi...@yahoo.com
IMS part of this was him breaking up with John Campbell. (There are
people around here who know a lot more Vance than I do, and who could
comment in more detail.)
Doug M.
Mike Schilling
OK, tell us why you think that.
arch...@googlemail.com
> _Emphyrio_ is a dark and claustrophobic novel, as much so as the
> living-quarters of the alien rulers in the novel:
>
> It is not typical of his novels in that respect.
Agreed, but I'll still defend it as quintessential Vance, because when
you distill out all the adventures and the competent heroes, the
delightful quirks and arch ironies, there remains a darkness at the
heart of Vance's vision of the way life works. Yes, he often puts his
cruelties off-stage, as with the "savaged" children in The Killing
Machine, but peristent glimpses appear: Cugel rapes and kills without
a qualm, as does Liane the Wayfarer, the placid waters of Trullion
hide merlings that will drag down anyone who falls in, and bad Ronald
Wilby's murderous sexual appetite consumes three young girls in the
supposed safety of their family home. In Vance, the darkness is never
far away, and sometimes it reaches out and snatches the innocent.
Matt Hughes
http://www.archonate.com
mimus
Thaery plainly maps to England, Glentlin to Scotland, and Wellas to
Wales, but what about Skay? Ireland? and maybe Dohobay to Dublin?
Vance does a lot of that sort of thing: the last or latest I can really
put my finger on is the decidedly if bipolar Pacific feel to Yipton, a mix
of the Philippines, Hong Kong and Singapore on the one hand and (the Beach
Volk at least of) Southern California on the other.
--
Everyone has something to say of Old Earth: some
praise it mightily; others tell me that they put out
their shoes to be cleaned, only to have them stolen.
< _Throy_
mimus
_Emphyrio_ is kind of short on "the delightful quirks and arch ironies"
that I would argue are definitely also part of any quintessence of his,
starting at the latest with the Magnus Ridolph stories.
That his novels are frequently brutal, or depict brutality, I don't think
is so much a matter of any philosophy of his other than perhaps a
philosophy of humanity based on history and empirical fact:
IOW, the brutality is human brutality, and he writes about humans (for the
most part).
Then again, there's the rather Jack Londonish _The Gray Prince_, aka_ The
Grey Prince_, aka _The Domains of Koryphon_, which seems to make an
auctorially-held point . . . .
(For that matter, the uber-sardines' cheerful selling out of their less
gifted brethren was fairly brutal, in "The Sub-Standard Sardines" . . . .)
--
A morphote, resting on a log, made an incomprehensible gesture
and slipped off into the undergrowth.
< _The Gray Prince_
arch...@googlemail.com
> That his novels are frequently brutal, or depict brutality, I don't think
> is so much a matter of any philosophy of his other than perhaps a
> philosophy of humanity based on history and empirical fact:
I wouldn't dare to presume a philosophy from Vance's works. But a
vision, and a dark one, at that? Undoubtedly.
Matt hughes
http://www.archonate.com
mimus
Well, it was a promising start (after some initial reverses) to the
protagonist's career, and with a very enticing marriage-prospect in view
at the end as well, from a personal, social and career stand-point . . . .
(Not that there weren't some social and political storm-clouds on the
horizon, vis-a-vis his relationship with the patrician clan the Ymphs.)
--
"You are either insane or a fool."
"I am a sanitary inspector."
< _Maske: Thaery_
mimus
"Picaresque" sums up a lot of it.
Above all Cugel.
And the picaresque is generally (a) colorful if not downright lurid and
(b) non-judgmental.
From at least the _Satyricon_ on.
--
By diligence, this licentious rogue may yet earn our love and respect.
< _Cugel's Saga_
Mike Schilling
> On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 09:40:42 -0700, Mike Schilling wrote:
>
>> sigi...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>
>>> On Mar 21, 11:55 am, "Mike Schilling"
>>> <mscottschill...@hotmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Most of his standalone books seem to be overshadowed by the
>>>> series
>>>> books, _Emphyrio_ being a partial exception.
>>>
>>> I'm pretty sure _Maske: Thaery_ was intended to start a series.
>>
>> OK, tell us why you think that.
>
> Well, it was a promising start (after some initial reverses) to the
> protagonist's career, and with a very enticing marriage-prospect in
> view at the end as well, from a personal, social and career
> stand-point . . .
Yes, the story felt finished to me, unlike, say the end of _The
Anome_, where the Rogushkoi are still rampaging, or _Araminta
Station_, where the various villains are still at large. I'd call
that an argument that goes the other way.
sigi...@yahoo.com
wrote:
> Yes, the story felt finished to me, unlike, say the end of _The
> Anome_, where the Rogushkoi are still rampaging, or _Araminta
> Station_, where the various villains are still at large. I'd call
> that an argument that goes the other way
Eh. The proper comparanda would be other Vance singletons, no? And
most of them are much more closed and complete than M:T. In most, the
world is literally transformed by the end (Five Gold Bands, Emphyrio,
Languages of Pal, To Live Forever, Last Castle, Blue World); even when
it isn't (Dragon Masters, Grey Prince, Showboat World), there's a
clear stopping point, and usually not much sense that we're going to
see that particular protagonist again.
I'm working from memory here -- haven't read the book in years -- but
1) Story seemed unfinished; protagonist had dealt with one enemy, but
clearly had much yet to accomplish.
2) Various dangly bits, seemingly intended to lead to later stories.
(Or, this being Vance, to be discarded if Vance cared to. Continuity
was never something that kept him awake nights.)
3) Major issue of that world not resolved, just fended off for one
episode.
4) World was worked out in rather more detail than seemed necessary
for a one-shot; and,
5) The title. Maske was roughly contemporary with his Alastor
series, which had titles of the pattern $NAME: Alastor $NUM. So it's
reasonable to think he was at least considering a series with titles
like _Maske: Something Else_.
Again, working from memory. So it's entirely possible I'm wrong.
Doug M.
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
<sigi...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>On Mar 21, 1:55 pm, "Mike Schilling" <mscottschill...@hotmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>> Yes, the story felt finished to me, unlike, say the end of _The
>> Anome_, where the Rogushkoi are still rampaging, or _Araminta
>> Station_, where the various villains are still at large. I'd call
>> that an argument that goes the other way
>
>Eh. The proper comparanda would be other Vance singletons, no? And
>most of them are much more closed and complete than M:T. In most, the
>world is literally transformed by the end (Five Gold Bands, Emphyrio,
>Languages of Pal, To Live Forever, Last Castle, Blue World); even when
>it isn't (Dragon Masters, Grey Prince, Showboat World), there's a
>clear stopping point, and usually not much sense that we're going to
>see that particular protagonist again.
>
Disagree about _Dragon Masters_. That one seemed left *so* open-ended
that it almost *needed* a follow-up.
Ted
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
arch...@googlemail.com
wrote:
> Yes, the story felt finished to me, unlike, say the end of _The
> Anome_, where the Rogushkoi are still rampaging, or _Araminta
> Station_, where the various villains are still at large. I'd call
> that an argument that goes the other way.
Much of Vance's work dates from before the series-mania gripped the
corporatized publishing industry. Before the eighties, most sf novels
were stand-alones. An author could revisit the same setting if he
felt like it, or start fresh every time. After the free-standing
houses became corporate profit centers, the effort to minimize risk
began to build, and the marketing logic of the series (if they bought
it once, they'll buy it twice, thrice, fource, etc.), became
inexorable.
Before, the decision to leave a story open-ended was an artistic one.
I doubt, for example, that Richard Matheson intended a sequel to The
Incredible Shrinking Man, although it ends on a "what next?" note, or
that George R. Stewart would have been much interested in doing Earth
Abides, The Next Generation, although the doors stood open. But once
the bean counters replaced the book people, artistic concerns went out
the window. These days, the moment you sell a book, the editor asks
if you have another one just like it all lined up and ready to start.
Matt Hughes
http://www.archonate.com
arch...@googlemail.com
> Disagree about _Dragon Masters_. That one seemed left *so* open-ended
> that it almost *needed* a follow-up.
Good god, yes. What happened to all the human worlds? How will be
Basics react when their invasion fails? You could do ten sequels.
Matt Hughes
http://www.archonate.com
Mike Schilling
>
> 1) Story seemed unfinished; protagonist had dealt with one enemy,
> but
> clearly had much yet to accomplish.
Hmm? He had the fiancee he wanted and a budding career as a santitary
inspector. And He hadn't really dealt with the enemy as much as
watched him be dealt with by a force clearly able to take care of
things itself.
> 2) Various dangly bits, seemingly intended to lead to later
> stories.
I'm not sure which these are.
>
> 3) Major issue of that world not resolved, just fended off for one
> episode.
True; they can't probably can't stay isolated forever. But this hero
has no interest in addressing that.
>
> 4) World was worked out in rather more detail than seemed necessary
> for a one-shot; and,
Agreed here; it had more pieces worked out than most of the non-series
books so.
>
> 5) The title. Maske was roughly contemporary with his Alastor
> series, which had titles of the pattern $NAME: Alastor $NUM. So
> it's
> reasonable to think he was at least considering a series with titles
> like _Maske: Something Else_.
True.
Jesper Lauridsen
>
>
> Took _Horizon_ back to the library today, and decided to turn in
> _Emphyrio_ while I was at it even though I hadn't read it yet.
I'm currently in the middle of reading Emphyrio, and have been for
some time. For some reason I only get around to read it during train
rides. I seem to be less inclined to pick up books with clueless/powerless
protagonists.
Jesper Lauridsen
>
> Or read his fanatsy, where WSOD isn't an issue. I'd recommend the Lyonesse
> series in particular.
That's the other Vance I've tried. Didn't do much for me - the characters
either had fairy-tale style adventures, or lead a military campaign that
looked like someone playing Civilization at a very low difficulty level.
netcat
says...
we discussed this. It wasn't bad, but still somewhat of a
disappointment. Competently written, but very predictable and rather
more didactic than I expected of Vance.
rgds,
netcat