YASID: Virtual reality
Brenda Clough
reality in a Virtual World of some kind. I have considered THE MACHINE
STOPS by E.M. Forster, also WALL-E and THE MATRIX. What other stories
of this type are there? Any of Joel Rosenberg's works?
Brenda <has never read them>
David DeLaney
Walter Jon Williams just did Implied Spaces a little while back, which seems
to fit. Also see Tad Williams' four-book Otherland series, while I'm looking
at my Williams list...
I don't know of any Joel Rosenberg that fits. He has a long series where
people got kidnapped into a Fantasy World, semi-generic, but that seems not
to be anything near what you're looking for.
(I wonder if TRON got novelizationed?)
Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from d...@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Will in New Haven
None of Joel's work fits. However, I guess one could think some of it
does from a summary. The central characters in the GUARDIANS OF THE
FLAME series aren't in a virtual world and they aren't hiding. They
were _sent_ to another world, an alternate reality. They were sent
against their will or at least without their knowledge.
The series is distinguished by the fact that the sixth and seventh
books are, in my opinion, really good novels. They might not work as
stand-alones and the first five books are ok but uneven. It would be
easy to read the first three or so and figure, "that was ok but I will
stop now." Anyway, I think _The Road to Evenor_ and _The Road Home_
are the sixth and seventh. They may be the fifth and sixth. The books
that follow them have their own virtues but the ROAD books are the
high point. I should reread them again soon.
He wrote another series with inter-universe travel but it is back and
forth travel and not easily mistaken for the theme you are asking
about.
I would list all of his other books but none of them fit your theme.
--
Will in New Haven
Will in New Haven
I was going to mention a book I read recently when many humans "go
into the box" just as you depict. It is the last book of the THOUSAND
CULTURES series by John Barnes. It is called _Armies of Memory_. I
think the first book is _A Million Open Doors_ and the theme recurs
throughout the series.
I really liked ARMIES but I get the feeling that the series as a whole
has been spoiled for me by reading it first. If anyone has an opinion
on that I would like to hear it. But I won't mind seeing it either.
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
I would say that there is no VR in WALL-E. The ship lifestyle is
completely sedentary and artificial, but it's not VR.
You could say John D. McDonald's "Spectator Sport" fulfills your
critera in a rather twisted way. Also Laumer's "Cocoon" in a way.
Your scope includes movies, so add Star Trek's "The Cage" too..
Ted
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Jack Bohn
>ISO stories in which people hide out from an increasingly unpleasant
>reality in a Virtual World of some kind.
Do we need a different subject line acronym for seeking themed
stories?
For YASID, I'm thinking there was a Pohl short story about
everybody cocooning in an ice age world...
Somehow a guy hid out in _The Dueling Machine_ by Bova, but it
wasn't from an unpleasant reality.
--
-Jack
Paul Colquhoun
Not so much "unpleasant" reality, just to easy and unchanging, not
presenting a challenge. It's part of the back story in John Dalmas' "The
Reality Matrix"
Our reality is the virtual world that they escape to.
--
Reverend Paul Colquhoun, ULC. http://andor.dropbear.id.au/~paulcol
Asking for technical help in newsgroups? Read this first:
http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#intro
James Nicoll
Jack Bohn <jack...@bright.net> wrote:
>Brenda Clough wrote:
>
>>ISO stories in which people hide out from an increasingly unpleasant
>>reality in a Virtual World of some kind.
>
>Do we need a different subject line acronym for seeking themed
>stories?
>
>For YASID, I'm thinking there was a Pohl short story about
>everybody cocooning in an ice age world...
I think that is Keith Laumer's "Cocoon".
--
http://www.livejournal.com/users/james_nicoll
http://www.cafepress.com/jdnicoll (For all your "The problem with
defending the English language [...]" T-shirt, cup and tote-bag needs)
netcat
newsp...@andor.dropbear.id.au says...
> On Wed, 16 Dec 2009 19:51:53 -0500, Brenda Clough <Brenda...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> | ISO stories in which people hide out from an increasingly unpleasant
> | reality in a Virtual World of some kind. I have considered THE MACHINE
> | STOPS by E.M. Forster, also WALL-E and THE MATRIX. What other stories
> | of this type are there?
One would think there'd be so many there would be a list. And now I
can't think of any. Although I was certain I even had that list, once,
squirreled away somewheres.
You may be interested in Lukyanenko's _Labyrinth of Reflections_.
Also, have you seen "Avalon", the movie?
rgds,
netcat
Steven L.
news:hgbvbm$ch6$2...@news.eternal-september.org:
A classic is "Call me Joe," by Frederick Pohl, written way back in 1957:
The hero, Joe Anglesey, is an embittered cripple. But he can transfer
his consciousness into an alien creature living on the planet Jupiter.
He finds life on Jupiter, having to struggle to find food and fight off
predators, to be richer and more rewarding than his limited life as a
cripple here on Earth.
--
--
Steven L.
sdli...@earthlinkNOSPAM.net
Remove the "NOSPAM" before sending to this email address.
James Nicoll
Steven L. <sdli...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>"Brenda Clough" <Brenda...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:hgbvbm$ch6$2...@news.eternal-september.org:
>
>> ISO stories in which people hide out from an increasingly unpleasant
>> reality in a Virtual World of some kind. I have considered THE MACHINE
>> STOPS by E.M. Forster, also WALL-E and THE MATRIX. What other stories
>> of this type are there? Any of Joel Rosenberg's works?
>
>A classic is "Call me Joe," by Frederick Pohl, written way back in 1957:
ITYM by Poul Anderson.
Dorothy J Heydt
>news:hgbvbm$ch6$2...@news.eternal-september.org:
>
>> ISO stories in which people hide out from an increasingly unpleasant
>> reality in a Virtual World of some kind. I have considered THE MACHINE
>> STOPS by E.M. Forster, also WALL-E and THE MATRIX. What other stories
>> of this type are there? Any of Joel Rosenberg's works?
>
>A classic is "Call me Joe," by Frederick Pohl, written way back in 1957:
ITYM Poul Anderson!
>
>The hero, Joe Anglesey, is an embittered cripple. But he can transfer
>his consciousness into an alien creature living on the planet Jupiter.
>He finds life on Jupiter, having to struggle to find food and fight off
>predators, to be richer and more rewarding than his limited life as a
>cripple here on Earth.
Yes ... but the android body he's inhabiting on Jupiter is real,
the first of a new species intended to colonize the Jovian surface.
Not VR.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at hotmail dot com
Should you wish to email me, you'd better use the hotmail edress.
Kithrup is getting too damn much spam, even with the sysop's filters.
Robbie
To an extent, Clarke's "The City and the Stars" qualifies. It's been a
while since I read it, but I'm pretty sure it fits.
Anthony Nance
Probably PKD's _The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch_ (I'm thinking
of the Perky Pat layouts and the...what was it...translation(?) via
a drug-aided interface);
and maybe
Effinger's Marid Audran series, where "moddies" are cybernetic modules
people can plug directly into their brains, which are generally used as
recreational drugs. However (hence the maybe), they are not so much
escapes from the real world as they are personality changers/substitutes.
Tony
Juho Julkunen
Nance (na...@math.ohio-state.edu) says...
> Brenda Clough <Brenda...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > ISO stories in which people hide out from an increasingly unpleasant
> > reality in a Virtual World of some kind. I have considered THE MACHINE
> > STOPS by E.M. Forster, also WALL-E and THE MATRIX. What other stories
> > of this type are there? Any of Joel Rosenberg's works?
> >
> > Brenda <has never read them>
>
> Probably PKD's _The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch_ (I'm thinking
> of the Perky Pat layouts and the...what was it...translation(?) via
> a drug-aided interface);
And speaking of PKD, wasn't there some sort of VR in _Do Androids..._.
I confess it's been a while since I read it, though.
--
Juho Julkunen
Lawrence Watt-Evans
wrote:
>Brenda Clough <Brenda...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> ISO stories in which people hide out from an increasingly unpleasant
>> reality in a Virtual World of some kind. I have considered THE MACHINE
>> STOPS by E.M. Forster, also WALL-E and THE MATRIX. What other stories
>> of this type are there? Any of Joel Rosenberg's works?
>>
>> Brenda <has never read them>
>
>Probably PKD's _The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch_ (I'm thinking
>of the Perky Pat layouts and the...what was it...translation(?) via
>a drug-aided interface);
Oh, Dick used the idea more than once -- isn't it in _Martian
Time-Slip_, as well?
I've read several short stories with the concept, but can't remember
titles or authors.
--
My webpage is at http://www.watt-evans.com
I'm selling my comic collection -- see http://www.watt-evans.com/comics.html
I'm serializing a novel at http://www.watt-evans.com/realmsoflight0.html
Joseph Nebus
>Brenda Clough wrote:
>>ISO stories in which people hide out from an increasingly unpleasant
>>reality in a Virtual World of some kind.
>Do we need a different subject line acronym for seeking themed
>stories?
Might be useful, if we can think of a sensible acronym for it.
Often I'll end up looking for examples of some theme or plot idea being
implemented rather than any story which I know exists, for example, and
that ought to be convenient for people.
>For YASID, I'm thinking there was a Pohl short story about
>everybody cocooning in an ice age world...
No idea, myself, but we really do need better collections of
Pohl's short stories out there.
--
Joseph Nebus
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anthony Nance
> On 17 Dec 2009 18:22:29 GMT, na...@math.ohio-state.edu (Anthony Nance)
> wrote:
>
>>Brenda Clough <Brenda...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> ISO stories in which people hide out from an increasingly unpleasant
>>> reality in a Virtual World of some kind. I have considered THE MACHINE
>>> STOPS by E.M. Forster, also WALL-E and THE MATRIX. What other stories
>>> of this type are there? Any of Joel Rosenberg's works?
>>>
>>> Brenda <has never read them>
>>
>>Probably PKD's _The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch_ (I'm thinking
>>of the Perky Pat layouts and the...what was it...translation(?) via
>>a drug-aided interface);
>
> Oh, Dick used the idea more than once -- isn't it in _Martian
> Time-Slip_, as well?
Quite possibly, but
a) I've started a handful of PKDs, but only finished one (The Man
in the High Castle); and
b) all my PKD is well in the past to boot; so
c) I'm not real sure any more which ones I tried. It was a chance
occurrence that led me to think of TTSoPE above.
> I've read several short stories with the concept, but can't remember
> titles or authors.
I agree that there are likely several, but for the ones that came
to my mind, Brenda's wish for VR "in which people hide out from an
increasingly unpleasant reality" eliminated all but the two above.
Tony
Gerry Quinn
net...@devnull.eridani.eol.ee says...
> In article <slrnhik7vv.i...@andor.dropbear.id.au>,
> newsp...@andor.dropbear.id.au says...
> > On Wed, 16 Dec 2009 19:51:53 -0500, Brenda Clough <Brenda...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > | ISO stories in which people hide out from an increasingly unpleasant
> > | reality in a Virtual World of some kind. I have considered THE MACHINE
> > | STOPS by E.M. Forster, also WALL-E and THE MATRIX. What other stories
> > | of this type are there?
>
> One would think there'd be so many there would be a list. And now I
> can't think of any. Although I was certain I even had that list, once,
> squirreled away somewheres.
The "increasingly unpleasant reality" is hard to define. On an
individual level, people are fleeing Earth for Azeroth as we speak...
- Gerry Quinn
Dorothy J Heydt
My husband spends as many hours as possible fleeing an Earth in
which he is unemployed, sixty, and harboring a nasty cold, for
Middle-earth in which the biggest problem is Sauron.
(I spend some time there too, but not one-handed.)
Wayne Throop
:: individual level, people are fleeing Earth for Azeroth as we speak...
: My husband spends as many hours as possible fleeing an Earth in which
: he is unemployed, sixty, and harboring a nasty cold, for Middle-earth
: in which the biggest problem is Sauron.
Well OK. But don't overdo. I'm sure there are side effects.
"From the makers of Azerath and Metrion, they are proud to introduce
Zinthos. New and improved Zinthos gives you exactly what you need,
exactly when you need it. And because its blue Zinthos goes with
everything. Zinthos isn't right for everyone and may cause
bloating, cramping, hair loss, disturbing visions, fits of rage, and
the growth of additional eyes. Children under 3 should not be
exposed to Zinthos. Do not get Zinthos wet and never feed it after
midnight. If you experience trouble meditating stop saying Zinthos
and consult your ancient scrolls immediately. New, blue Zinthos."
--- Teen Titans, "Don't Touch That Dial"
"Bit of advice. Find shorter magic words."
--- Doctor Light to Raven
(wrt to her saying "Azerath, Metrion, Zinthos"
whenever doing magic)
"I'd like to go to jail now, please."
--- Doctor Light (upon discovering that they aren't
actually magic words, but a mantra Raven uses
to control her emotions while doing magic...
basically, you don't want to have Raven lose
control of her emotions while doing magic)
Wayne Throop thr...@sheol.org http://sheol.org/throopw
Rich Horton
novels, especially EARTH MADE OF GLASS.
Will in New Haven
> Doubtless already mentioned, but John Barnes's Thousand Cultures
> novels, especially EARTH MADE OF GLASS.
Mentioned very early in the thread. Would you go back and read the
others if you had found _Armies of Memory_ on a discount rack, bought
it, read it and liked it or would the rest of the series be pretty
much ruined for you.
Howard Brazee
<sdli...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>A classic is "Call me Joe," by Frederick Pohl, written way back in 1957:
>
>The hero, Joe Anglesey, is an embittered cripple. But he can transfer
>his consciousness into an alien creature living on the planet Jupiter.
>He finds life on Jupiter, having to struggle to find food and fight off
>predators, to be richer and more rewarding than his limited life as a
>cripple here on Earth.
Frederick Pohl Anderson?
--
"In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found,
than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace
to the legislature, and not to the executive department."
- James Madison
David DeLaney
>Gerry Quinn <ger...@indigo.ie> wrote:
>>The "increasingly unpleasant reality" is hard to define. On an
>>individual level, people are fleeing Earth for Azeroth as we speak...
>
>My husband spends as many hours as possible fleeing an Earth in
>which he is unemployed, sixty, and harboring a nasty cold, for
>Middle-earth in which the biggest problem is Sauron.
>
>http://www.lotro.com/
>
>(I spend some time there too, but not one-handed.)
...ach, lassie - don'tcha think you might want to ... rephrase that last?
Dave "having flashbacks to one of the Tribbles Demento songs" DeLaney
David DeLaney
>Jack Bohn <jack...@bright.net> writes:
>>Brenda Clough wrote:
>>>ISO stories in which people hide out from an increasingly unpleasant
>>>reality in a Virtual World of some kind.
>
>>Do we need a different subject line acronym for seeking themed stories?
>
> Might be useful, if we can think of a sensible acronym for it.
Try YAISO then?
Dave "the Obvious Bag closes again, gently" DeLaney
Wayne Throop
: Try YAISO then?
Yet Another International Standards Organization?
Sounds good.
Jack Bohn
>On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 15:58:00 +0000, "Steven L."
><sdli...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>>A classic is "Call me Joe," by Frederick Pohl, written way back in 1957:
>>
>>The hero, Joe Anglesey, is an embittered cripple. But he can transfer
>>his consciousness into an alien creature living on the planet Jupiter.
>>He finds life on Jupiter, having to struggle to find food and fight off
>>predators, to be richer and more rewarding than his limited life as a
>>cripple here on Earth.
>
>Frederick Pohl Anderson?
Brilliant!
I would have called him Clifford D. Simak, though. One of his
City stories, from the title, I would guess "Desertion."
Then there's the Asimov story "Stranger in Paradise" with the odd
idea that an autistic child was not responding to his environment
because he was more suited to the environment of Venus. When
connected to a robot body there...
--
-Jack
Rich Horton
<bill....@taylorandfrancis.com> wrote:
>On Dec 17, 8:36�pm, Rich Horton <rrhor...@prodigy.net> wrote:
>> Doubtless already mentioned, but John Barnes's Thousand Cultures
>> novels, especially EARTH MADE OF GLASS.
I meant THE MERCHANTS OF SOULS as the main "people retreat to VR" book
in the series, sorry!
>
>Mentioned very early in the thread.
I figured it would be ...
> Would you go back and read the
>others if you had found _Armies of Memory_ on a discount rack, bought
>it, read it and liked it or would the rest of the series be pretty
>much ruined for you.
Hmmm -- I don't really think so. I particularly loved the very first
THOUSAND CULTURES story, "Canso de Fis de Jovent", which appeared in
Analog and later became the first part of A MILLION OPEN DOORS. So I
was predisposed to like the books from then on ... though it must be
said that the series moves in a different direction from that
suggested by "Canso de Fis de Jovent".
But I think there are worthwhile points made and stories told in the
early books that aren't ruined by THE ARMIES OF MEMORY.
I think the books might read better in order -- then
SPOILER
you get to see Giraut and Margaret fall in love in A MILLION OPEN
DOORS, which makes EARTH MADE OF GLASS more depressing (as if that
were possible) ...
Michael Stemper
>: d...@gatekeeper.vic.com (David DeLaney)
>: Try YAISO then?
>
>Yet Another International Standards Organization?
You are trapped in a twisty little maze of standards, all conflicting.
--
Michael F. Stemper
#include <Standard_Disclaimer>
Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
Michael Stemper
>Howard Brazee wrote:
>>On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 15:58:00 +0000, "Steven L." <sdli...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>The hero, Joe Anglesey, is an embittered cripple. But he can transfer
>>>his consciousness into an alien creature living on the planet Jupiter.
>>>He finds life on Jupiter, having to struggle to find food and fight off
>>>predators, to be richer and more rewarding than his limited life as a
>>>cripple here on Earth.
>>
>>Frederick Pohl Anderson?
>
>Brilliant!
>
>I would have called him Clifford D. Simak, though. One of his
>City stories, from the title, I would guess "Desertion."
That came to mind, as well as the Bridge-building sequence from Blish's
_They Shall Have Stars_. Of course, as was already pointed out, none
of these match Brenda's original request. That's thread drift for you.
Which I suppose makes the Dragon Riders the original net.cops, valiantly
policing Pern against thread drift.
Will in New Haven
> On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 17:40:37 -0800 (PST), Will in New Haven
>
I'm going to give the series a go. It's just that everything _changed_
so much in the last part of ARMIES that I found it disconcerting.
Giraut's Occitan culture is at least mildly fascinating. I have
thought of proposing a what-if that included an independant Occitan
nation-state, perhaps including Catalonia, perhaps not.
Joseph Nebus
>On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 15:58:00 +0000, "Steven L."
><sdli...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>A classic is "Call me Joe," by Frederick Pohl, written way back in 1957:
>>
>>The hero, Joe Anglesey, is an embittered cripple. But he can transfer
>>his consciousness into an alien creature living on the planet Jupiter.
>>He finds life on Jupiter, having to struggle to find food and fight off
>>predators, to be richer and more rewarding than his limited life as a
>>cripple here on Earth.
>Frederick Pohl Anderson?
Is it just something in my imagination or is Frederick Pohl
becoming the Winston Twain Washington of classic short stories?
--
Joseph Nebus
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kurt Busiek
> On 17 Dec 2009 14:04:02 -0500, Joseph Nebus <nebusj-@-rpi-.edu> wrote:
>> Jack Bohn <jack...@bright.net> writes:
>>> Brenda Clough wrote:
>>>> ISO stories in which people hide out from an increasingly unpleasant
>>>> reality in a Virtual World of some kind.
>>
>>> Do we need a different subject line acronym for seeking themed stories?
>>
>> Might be useful, if we can think of a sensible acronym for it.
>
> Try YAISO then?
>
> Dave "the Obvious Bag closes again, gently" DeLaney
Or just "WANTED:"
It's not an acronym, but I'm sure someone could figure out meanings for
all the letters if they thought it was important.
But "WANTED: Stories about virtual reality" is pretty clar.
kdb
--
Visit http://www.busiek.com -- for all your Busiek needs!
JRStern
>ISO stories in which people hide out from an increasingly unpleasant
>reality in a Virtual World of some kind. I have considered THE MACHINE
>STOPS by E.M. Forster, also WALL-E and THE MATRIX. What other stories
>of this type are there? Any of Joel Rosenberg's works?
>
>Brenda <has never read them>
Van Vogt book, all life on earth is reduced to six idealized fetuses
dreaming in virtual reality, one wakes up and goes on a journey,
others are destroyed asleep, the one makes it all good again. Don't
recall the title, but has to be pre-1960. Hmm, browsing down the
books on Wikipedia still can't find it. Not Van Vogt?
J.
Michael Grosberg
Since we're drifting off he original topic, and I wanted to post this
question anyway, in light of a certain high-profile film that just
came out, let's just rephrase the question:
Which stories feature humans transferring - either bodily or through
remote manipulation - their consciousness into alien (or robot)
bodies, and then finding out they like their new bodies better than
their human ones?
Bonus points will be given to any plot point that closely matches
Avatar: the human going rogue and joining the other side, the human
body is damaged, falling in love with a native, etc.
_Call me Joe_ is still the closest match, I guess.
W. Citoan
> >stories?
>
> Might be useful, if we can think of a sensible acronym for it. Often
> I'll end up looking for examples of some theme or plot idea being
> implemented rather than any story which I know exists, for example,
> and that ought to be convenient for people.
There is already one. These are often titled with "Pseudo-YASID" (or
some variant) in the subject line.
- W. Citoan
--
If a man can write a better book, preach a better sermon, or make a better
mouse-trap than his neighbor, though he builds his house in the woods, the
world will make a beaten path to his door.
-- Ralph Waldo Emerson
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
_The Battle of Forever_
Actually, it's one of the later VVs (1971), and was pretty good I
thought at the time. VV's narrative oddnesses were very well suited
to the story of a "man" who doesn't react like a normal human.
Ted
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Kurt Busiek
<grosberg...@gmail.com> said:
> Since we're drifting off he original topic, and I wanted to post this
> question anyway, in light of a certain high-profile film that just
> came out, let's just rephrase the question:
>
> Which stories feature humans transferring - either bodily or through
> remote manipulation - their consciousness into alien (or robot)
> bodies, and then finding out they like their new bodies better than
> their human ones?
MIRACLEMAN/MARVELMAN by Alan Moore, for one.
Scott Lurndal
>On Dec 19, 1:17=A0am, Jack Bohn <jackb...@bright.net> wrote:
>> Howard Brazee wrote:
>> >On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 15:58:00 +0000, "Steven L."
>> ><sdlit...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>:
>>
>> >>The hero, Joe Anglesey, is an embittered cripple. But he can transfer
>=A0
>> >>He finds life on Jupiter, having to struggle to find food and fight off
>> >>predators, to be richer and more rewarding than his limited life as a
>> >>cripple here on Earth.
>>
>> >Frederick Pohl Anderson?
>>
>> Brilliant!
>>
>> City stories, from the title, I would guess "Desertion."
>>
>> Then there's the Asimov story "Stranger in Paradise" with the odd
>> idea that an autistic child was not responding to his environment
>> connected to a robot body there...
>>
>> --
>> -Jack
>
>Since we're drifting off he original topic, and I wanted to post this
>question anyway, in light of a certain high-profile film that just
>came out, let's just rephrase the question:
>
>Which stories feature humans transferring - either bodily or through
>remote manipulation - their consciousness into alien (or robot)
>bodies, and then finding out they like their new bodies better than
>their human ones?
>
>Bonus points will be given to any plot point that closely matches
>Avatar: the human going rogue and joining the other side, the human
>body is damaged, falling in love with a native, etc.
>
>_Call me Joe_ is still the closest match, I guess.
A whole lot of Chalker.
scott
Robert A. Woodward
<ef5fabda-46c3-441f...@q18g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
,
Michael Grosberg <grosberg...@gmail.com> wrote:
What about the reverse (alien joins humans)? My candidate: _World
Out of Mind_ by J. T. McIntosh (1954).
--
Robert Woodward <robe...@drizzle.com>
<http://www.drizzle.com/~robertaw>
David DeLaney
>Since we're drifting off he original topic, and I wanted to post this
>question anyway, in light of a certain high-profile film that just
>came out, let's just rephrase the question:
>
>Which stories feature humans transferring - either bodily or through
>remote manipulation - their consciousness into alien (or robot)
>bodies, and then finding out they like their new bodies better than
>their human ones?
Anything Jack Chalker ever wrote?
Dave
Butch Malahide
> In article <hgbvbm$ch...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> Brenda Clough <BrendaWri...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > ISO stories in which people hide out from an increasingly unpleasant
> > reality in a Virtual World of some kind. I have considered THE MACHINE
> > STOPS by E.M. Forster, also WALL-E and THE MATRIX. What other stories
> > of this type are there? Any of Joel Rosenberg's works?
>
> > Brenda <has never read them>
>
> while since I read it, but I'm pretty sure it fits.
From my *vague* recollection, Clarke's "The Lion of Comarre" does fit,
"The City and the Stars" not so much.
I suppose W. T. Webb's "For What Purpose?" could be interpreted as a
fit.
Jack Bohn
>In article <9dfli5p1tgl2e51p7...@4ax.com>,
>Jack Bohn <jack...@bright.net> wrote:
>>
>>For YASID, I'm thinking there was a Pohl short story about
>>everybody cocooning in an ice age world...
>
> I think that is Keith Laumer's "Cocoon".
Really? My memory has it associated with Pohl, but then, it also
had the title as something like "What To Do Until the Repairman
Comes," and a quick isfdb search showed how reliable *that* was.
I have The Best of Keith Laumer, yep, "Cocoon" was the story.
--
-Jack
Jack Bohn
The Saga of Cuckoo, by Frederik Pohl and Jack Williamson, had a
bit where alien minds could rent human bodies for remote
communication. Pohl reused this technology in the short story
"We Purchased People".
(As Winston Twain Washington said, "I looked it up, this time!")
--
-Jack
Butch Malahide
wrote:
>
> Which stories feature humans transferring - either bodily or through
> remote manipulation - their consciousness into alien (or robot)
> bodies, and then finding out they like their new bodies better than
> their human ones?
C. L. Moore's "No Woman Born" satisfies the first condition, at least.
The ending is kind of ambiguous; for all we know, she eventually comes
to like her new body better than her human one.
In C. L. Moore's "The Bright Illusion" the hero is transmogrified by
some god-like entity into a seriously weird form and sent across the
cosmos to some weird other world where he fights a battle and falls in
love with one of the weird natives; at least that's what I remember of
it.
Szymon Sokół
> In article <slrnhik7vv.i...@andor.dropbear.id.au>,
> newsp...@andor.dropbear.id.au says...
>> On Wed, 16 Dec 2009 19:51:53 -0500, Brenda Clough <Brenda...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>| ISO stories in which people hide out from an increasingly unpleasant
>>| reality in a Virtual World of some kind. I have considered THE MACHINE
>>| STOPS by E.M. Forster, also WALL-E and THE MATRIX. What other stories
>>| of this type are there?
>
> One would think there'd be so many there would be a list. And now I
> can't think of any. Although I was certain I even had that list, once,
> squirreled away somewheres.
>
> You may be interested in Lukyanenko's _Labyrinth of Reflections_.
I have read it in Polish, and liked it very much (though I think some
in-jokes will be missed by readers without knowledge of Russian culture).
Its sequel is also good: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_Mirrors
In general Lukyanenko is one of the best Russian SF writers, probably the
best since the death of Arkady Strugatsky. However, according to ISFDB:
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?Sergei_Lukyanenko
none of his books except the "Dozor" (Watch) series have been translated to
English, and I doubt Brenda can read Russian or Polish...
> Also, have you seen "Avalon", the movie?
I have. It was filmed in Poland (Warsaw and Wroclaw), and the cast was
Polish - see http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0267287/
Ironically, it hasn't got good reviews in Poland, for the stupidest of
reasons. Allegedly, the Japanese director (Mamoru Oshii) told actors that
the movie will be dubbed anyway, so they don't have to concentrate on
speaking. And was dubbed - in English and other languages, but *not* in
Polish. Some empty-headed asshole decided that since the actors are already
speaking in Polish, there's no need for dubbing! The result was quite
outrageous.
One of the brightest points of the movie is music by Kenji Kawai, which we
like immensely. And the plot makes somewhat more sense than in "The
Matrix"...
--
Szymon Sokół (SS316-RIPE) -- Network Manager B
Computer Center, AGH - University of Science and Technology, Cracow, Poland O
http://home.agh.edu.pl/szymon/ PGP key id: RSA: 0x2ABE016B, DSS: 0xF9289982 F
Free speech includes the right not to listen, if not interested -- Heinlein H
Jo'Asia
> I have. It was filmed in Poland (Warsaw and Wroclaw), and the cast was
> Polish - see http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0267287/
> Ironically, it hasn't got good reviews in Poland, for the stupidest of
> reasons. Allegedly, the Japanese director (Mamoru Oshii) told actors that
> the movie will be dubbed anyway, so they don't have to concentrate on
> speaking.
AFAIK Oshii told them right out to speak with as little intonation as
possible...
> And was dubbed - in English and other languages, but *not* in
> Polish. Some empty-headed asshole decided that since the actors are already
> speaking in Polish, there's no need for dubbing! The result was quite
> outrageous.
Jo'Asia
__.-=-. -< Joanna Slupek >----------------------< http://esensja.pl/ >-
--<()> -< joasia @ hell . pl >------< http://bujold.fantastyka.net/ >-
.__.'| -< BZZT SQUEAK FIRBLE WHOOSH - Death of Vorlons
{Richard P. Grant} >-
JRStern
<tednolan>) wrote:
>>Van Vogt book, all life on earth is reduced to six idealized fetuses
>>dreaming in virtual reality, one wakes up and goes on a journey,
>>others are destroyed asleep, the one makes it all good again. Don't
>>recall the title, but has to be pre-1960. Hmm, browsing down the
>>books on Wikipedia still can't find it. Not Van Vogt?
>
>_The Battle of Forever_
>
>Actually, it's one of the later VVs (1971), and was pretty good I
>thought at the time. VV's narrative oddnesses were very well suited
>to the story of a "man" who doesn't react like a normal human.
Hey, thanks! Haven't read it in many, many moons, but still remember
how creepy it was. I didn't know I'd ever read any VV written after
1970. Heck, I didn't know there *was* any VV written after 1970, but
apparently that's way off.
Written that late, I have to see it as a bit more derivative than I'd
thought. Heinlein, Cordwainer Smith, Phillip Jose Farmer. L. Ron
Hubbard.
J.
netcat
szy...@bastard.operator.from.hell.pl says...
> On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 17:39:46 +0200, netcat wrote:
>
> > In article <slrnhik7vv.i...@andor.dropbear.id.au>,
> > newsp...@andor.dropbear.id.au says...
> >> On Wed, 16 Dec 2009 19:51:53 -0500, Brenda Clough <Brenda...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>| ISO stories in which people hide out from an increasingly unpleasant
> >>| reality in a Virtual World of some kind. I have considered THE MACHINE
> >>| STOPS by E.M. Forster, also WALL-E and THE MATRIX. What other stories
> >>| of this type are there?
> >
> > One would think there'd be so many there would be a list. And now I
> > can't think of any. Although I was certain I even had that list, once,
> > squirreled away somewheres.
> >
> > You may be interested in Lukyanenko's _Labyrinth of Reflections_.
>
> I have read it in Polish, and liked it very much (though I think some
> in-jokes will be missed by readers without knowledge of Russian culture).
> Its sequel is also good: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_Mirrors
> In general Lukyanenko is one of the best Russian SF writers, probably the
> best since the death of Arkady Strugatsky. However, according to ISFDB:
> http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?Sergei_Lukyanenko
> none of his books except the "Dozor" (Watch) series have been translated to
> English, and I doubt Brenda can read Russian or Polish...
Or Estonian, for that matter.
But some years ago, there used to be a very unofficial English
translation somewhere on the web.
rgds,
netcat
cryptoguy
wrote:
Mindswap, by Sheckley.
Pairs of sentients swap minds instantly across species and lightyears;
much faster
then having to physically travel. Of course, Sheckley plays it for
dark humor.
pt
David DeLaney
>Michael Grosberg <grosberg.mich...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Jack Bohn <jackb...@bright.net> wrote:
>> Since we're drifting off he original topic, and I wanted to post this
>> question anyway, �in light of a certain high-profile film that just
>> came out, let's just rephrase the question:
>>
>> Which stories feature humans transferring - either bodily or through
>> remote manipulation - their consciousness into alien (or robot)
>> bodies, and then finding out they like their new bodies better than
>> their human ones?
>>
>> Bonus points will be given to any plot point that closely matches
>> Avatar: the human going rogue and joining the other side, the human
>> body is damaged, falling in love with a native, etc.
>>
>> _Call me Joe_ is still the closest match, I guess.
>
>Mindswap, by Sheckley.
>
>Pairs of sentients swap minds instantly across species and lightyears;
>much faster then having to physically travel. Of course, Sheckley plays it for
>dark humor.
And I hate to have to say it, but Piers Anthony's "Cluster" series, with its
Kirlian Transfer mechanism, has this in some of the five books.
William December Starr
Brenda Clough <Brenda...@yahoo.com> said:
> ISO stories in which people hide out from an increasingly
> unpleasant reality in a Virtual World of some kind. I have
> considered THE MACHINE STOPS by E.M. Forster, also WALL-E and THE
> MATRIX. What other stories of this type are there?
Asimov had a short story, which I think is "Flies" (1953), along
those lines. The human, either psychosomatically or due to the way
the machine worked, lost his memories of his reality when he was in
the virtuality; i.e., he really believed he was the character he was
"playing." (No, I'm not thinking of the one in which a guy is
pestered by clouds of flies all the time and it turns out that he's
really Beelzebub, Lord of the Flies, living an unhappy human life as
a punishment. That's a different Asimov story.)
And a YASID: I read this short story a long time ago, late 1960s or
early 1970s I think, _possibly_ in a hardcover anthology of stories
whose common theme was that they were set in the far future.
The main character was a man who lived in a terrible life, on the
hard frontier on a barely habitable planet, stuck in a small cabin
with a wife whom he hated and vice versa. His escape was to spend
time in a VR machine which gave him the simulation of being a
powerful emperor of time and space, with a large harem of loving,
beautiful women, etc. The question in the story, and I can't recall
whether it was resolved or not, was whether he'd gotten reality and
virtuality mixed up in his own mind, and actually _was_ the
all-powerful etc. and spent time in a simulation of an awful life so
as to keep from becoming jaded by having his every wish granted.
If it helps, I think that at one time, in the terrible life, his
wife actually chopped off his foot with a cleaver or something.
-- wds
Konrad Gaertner
>
> Asimov had a short story, which I think is "Flies" (1953), along
> those lines. The human, either psychosomatically or due to the way
> the machine worked, lost his memories of his reality when he was in
> the virtuality; i.e., he really believed he was the character he was
> "playing." (No, I'm not thinking of the one in which a guy is
> pestered by clouds of flies all the time and it turns out that he's
> really Beelzebub, Lord of the Flies, living an unhappy human life as
> a punishment. That's a different Asimov story.)
I just checked and "Flies" is the Beelzebub one; I don't remember the
VR story.
--
Konrad Gaertner - - - - - - - - - - - - email: kgae...@tx.rr.com
http://kgbooklog.livejournal.com/
"I don't mind hidden depths but I insist that there be a surface."
-- James Nicoll
Paul Ciszek
In article <4B318E33...@tx.rr.com>,
Konrad Gaertner <kgae...@tx.rr.com> wrote:
>William December Starr wrote:
>>
>> Asimov had a short story, which I think is "Flies" (1953), along
>> those lines. The human, either psychosomatically or due to the way
>> the machine worked, lost his memories of his reality when he was in
>> the virtuality; i.e., he really believed he was the character he was
>> "playing." (No, I'm not thinking of the one in which a guy is
>> pestered by clouds of flies all the time and it turns out that he's
>> really Beelzebub, Lord of the Flies, living an unhappy human life as
>> a punishment. That's a different Asimov story.)
>
>I just checked and "Flies" is the Beelzebub one; I don't remember the
>VR story.
And he was not really a demon, it was a coincidental cross-species
confusion of phermones that had the flies following him around in
a form of religious awe (or as close to it as was possible for the
fly brain) thus making him "Lord of the Flies".
--
Please reply to: | "Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is
pciszek at panix dot com | indistinguishable from malice."
Autoreply is disabled |
Ahasuerus
> > newspos...@andor.dropbear.id.au says...
> >> On Wed, 16 Dec 2009 19:51:53 -0500, Brenda Clough <BrendaWri...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>| ISO stories in which people hide out from an increasingly unpleasant
> >>| reality in a Virtual World of some kind. I have considered THE MACHINE
> >>| STOPS by E.M. Forster, also WALL-E and THE MATRIX. What other stories
> >>| of this type are there?
>
> > One would think there'd be so many there would be a list. And now I
> > can't think of any. Although I was certain I even had that list, once,
> > squirreled away somewheres.
>
> > You may be interested in Lukyanenko's _Labyrinth of Reflections_.
>
> I have read it in Polish, and liked it very much (though I think some
> in-jokes will be missed by readers without knowledge of Russian culture).
> Its sequel is also good: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_Mirrors
> In general Lukyanenko is one of the best Russian SF writers, probably the
> best since the death of Arkady Strugatsky. However, according to ISFDB:http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?Sergei_Lukyanenko
> none of his books except the "Dozor" (Watch) series have been translated to
There have been quite a few foreign language translations lately
including a new imprint "dedicated to bringing Japanese science
fiction to America and beyond" (http://www.haikasoru.com/about/).
Russian SF may well be the "next thing" starting with Alexey Pehov's
_Shadow Prowler_ (http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?SHDWPRWLRD2010),
which Pat LoBrutto compares to Terry Goodkind's and Robert Jordan's
books -- see _Are the Russians Coming?_ at http://www.publishersweekly.com/article/CA6604421.html
William December Starr
Konrad Gaertner <kgae...@tx.rr.com> said:
> William December Starr wrote:
>>
>> Asimov had a short story, which I think is "Flies" (1953), along
>> those lines. The human, either psychosomatically or due to the
>> way the machine worked, lost his memories of his reality when he
>> was in the virtuality; i.e., he really believed he was the
>> character he was "playing." (No, I'm not thinking of the one in
>> which a guy is pestered by clouds of flies all the time and it
>> turns out that he's really Beelzebub, Lord of the Flies, living
>> an unhappy human life as a punishment. That's a different Asimov
>> story.)
>
> I just checked and "Flies" is the Beelzebub one; I don't remember
> the VR story.
Well, drat. So, yet another YASID: which was the story I'm
thinking of, in which the human, unknowingly in the simulation,
kept smelling dust and dead flies (a bit of stimulus from reality
creeping into his mind) and not knowing why?
-- wds
Paul Ciszek
In article <hgsa08$9s4$1...@panix2.panix.com>,
William December Starr <wds...@panix.com> wrote:
>
>Well, drat. So, yet another YASID: which was the story I'm
>thinking of, in which the human, unknowingly in the simulation,
>kept smelling dust and dead flies (a bit of stimulus from reality
>creeping into his mind) and not knowing why?
I read that one. The dust and dead flies have collected on (or
maybe inside the cover of?) the VR pod. He has been in it for
an extended period as some sort of psych therapy; meanwhile,
everyone else went crazy and is running mad in the streets.
The VR reality is our world in the 1950's more or less, the
reality in which the VR pod exists (it has a funny name, and the
story was golden age-ish, the story never used the term "virtual")
is somewhat different, and advanced enough to have VR pods.
I don't think that the story was written by Asimov, but it may
have been in an anthology that he edited.
Christopher Henrich
nos...@nospam.com (Paul Ciszek) wrote:
> In article <hgsa08$9s4$1...@panix2.panix.com>,
> William December Starr <wds...@panix.com> wrote:
> >
> >Well, drat. So, yet another YASID: which was the story I'm
> >thinking of, in which the human, unknowingly in the simulation,
> >kept smelling dust and dead flies (a bit of stimulus from reality
> >creeping into his mind) and not knowing why?
>
> I read that one. The dust and dead flies have collected on (or
> maybe inside the cover of?) the VR pod. He has been in it for
> an extended period as some sort of psych therapy; meanwhile,
> everyone else went crazy and is running mad in the streets.
> The VR reality is our world in the 1950's more or less, the
> reality in which the VR pod exists (it has a funny name, and the
> story was golden age-ish, the story never used the term "virtual")
> is somewhat different, and advanced enough to have VR pods.
> I don't think that the story was written by Asimov, but it may
> have been in an anthology that he edited.
I read it, too, in the 1950's. I am inclined to think it was by Henry
Kuttner. Perhaps "The Cure".
See if this jogs your memory:
<http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?57501>
--
Christopher J. Henrich
chen...@monmouth.com
http://www.mathinteract.com
"A bad analogy is like a leaky screwdriver." -- Boon
Butch Malahide
wrote:
> In article <hgsmma$sl...@reader1.panix.com>,
> nos...@nospam.com (Paul Ciszek) wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > In article <hgsa08$9s...@panix2.panix.com>,
> > William December Starr <wdst...@panix.com> wrote:
>
> > >Well, drat. So, yet another YASID: which was the story I'm
> > >thinking of, in which the human, unknowingly in the simulation,
> > >kept smelling dust and dead flies (a bit of stimulus from reality
> > >creeping into his mind) and not knowing why?
>
> > I read that one. The dust and dead flies have collected on (or
> > maybe inside the cover of?) the VR pod. He has been in it for
> > an extended period as some sort of psych therapy; meanwhile,
> > everyone else went crazy and is running mad in the streets.
> > The VR reality is our world in the 1950's more or less, the
> > reality in which the VR pod exists (it has a funny name, and the
> > story was golden age-ish, the story never used the term "virtual")
> > is somewhat different, and advanced enough to have VR pods.
> > I don't think that the story was written by Asimov, but it may
> > have been in an anthology that he edited.
>
> I read it, too, in the 1950's. I am inclined to think it was by Henry
> Kuttner. Perhaps "The Cure".
Yes! I read it too, and it's been driving me nuts; thanks for
identifying it. There's no doubt that you nailed it. Here's a
quotation from the story:
[QUOTE]
But now he lay in the vorkyl, his nose against dusty glassocene that
smelled of dead flies, and the vitiated air tore at his throat as he
tried to breathe. All was in gray semidarkness around him. He sent out
a frantic thought-command.
Somewhere light grew. The distant wall faded to transparency. He could
see the City.
It had changed. It was older. And a heaped pile of dust made a canopy
atop the vorkyl in which he rested.
[END QUOTE]
William December Starr
Christopher Henrich <chen...@monmouth.com> said:
> I read it, too, in the 1950's. I am inclined to think it was by
> Henry Kuttner. Perhaps "The Cure".
> See if this jogs your memory:
> <http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?57501>
Yeah, the excerpt that Butch Malahide provided clinches it. I must
have read it in one of the twenty billion copies of Damon Knight's
A SCIENCE FICTION ARGOSY that the Science Fiction Book Club put
into circulation in the 1970s and '80s (and '90s?).
Why I associated it with Asimov, I don't know.
-- wds
Michael Stemper
> ISO stories in which people hide out from an increasingly
> unpleasant reality in a Virtual World of some kind. I have
> considered THE MACHINE STOPS by E.M. Forster, also WALL-E and THE
> MATRIX. What other stories of this type are there?
In Robert Sheckley's "Gur Fgber bs gur Jbeyqf", the protagonist pays a
very high price in order to spend a few subjective years in a simulated
version of ordinary, hum-drum 1950s USA, in order to escape his existence
in a wrecked post-WWIII world. (The title is ROT13'ed because even
mentioning it in this thread is a spoiler.)
In Damon Knight's "Semper Fi", the protagonist is co-owner of the firm
that has (IIRC) a monopoly on VR helmets. There are two parallel plot
threads (not a bad trick for a roughly ten-page story). In one of them,
his business partner is losing interest in the real world, and spending
more and more time under the helmet.
--
Michael F. Stemper
roduct Manager
#include <Standard_Disclaimer>
A preposition is something that you should never end a sentence with.