Internet predicted by Science Fiction?
Stephen Ball
Internet predicted by science fiction authors? While a friend of mine
contended that the Internet had largely escaped coherent prediction, I
feel certain that at least *one* author predicted something along the
lines of a network of information accessible and controllable by the
public. Unfortunately my knowledge of SF was inadequate to sufficiently
argue my claim, so I pose the question to the group.
Was the Internet (a system given the public control over the flow of
information) described by a science fiction author?
I have already located this webpage
(http://www.computer.org/computer/articles/vospost_1.htm), but none of
their sources seemed to adequately describe what I'm looking for.
Fluff
"Stephen Ball" <sdb...@ec.rr.com> wrote in message
news:65Q99.47169$Xa.21...@twister.southeast.rr.com...
> In a discussion with friends an interesting topic came up: was the
> Internet predicted by science fiction authors? While a friend of mine
> contended that the Internet had largely escaped coherent prediction, I
> feel certain that at least *one* author predicted something along the
> lines of a network of information accessible and controllable by the
> public. Unfortunately my knowledge of SF was inadequate to sufficiently
> argue my claim, so I pose the question to the group.
>
> Was the Internet (a system given the public control over the flow of
> information) described by a science fiction author?
>
About the closest I can recall would be 'Shockwave Rider' by John Brunner,
which included hacking, viruses, home terminals, etc. Think I've still got
my copy somewhere.
Fluffff
Terry Austin
"A Logic Name Joe" by Murray Leinster, 1946.
http://www.troynovant.com/Franson/Leinster/Logic-Named-Joe.html has a
summary.
--
Terry Austin <tau...@hyperbooks.com>
http://www.hyperbooks.com/
Metacreator character software now available
Mike Schilling
news:65Q99.47169$Xa.21...@twister.southeast.rr.com...
> Internet predicted by science fiction authors? While a friend of mine
> contended that the Internet had largely escaped coherent prediction, I
> feel certain that at least *one* author predicted something along the
> lines of a network of information accessible and controllable by the
> public. Unfortunately my knowledge of SF was inadequate to sufficiently
> argue my claim, so I pose the question to the group.
>
> Was the Internet (a system given the public control over the flow of
> information) described by a science fiction author?
Not SF per se, but in one of his essays Heinlein predicted a system which
could answer any question that has an answer. The Internet approaches that,
though it ignores the last four words.
Stephen Ball
(snip)
>
> "A Logic Name Joe" by Murray Leinster, 1946.
>
> http://www.troynovant.com/Franson/Leinster/Logic-Named-Joe.html has a
> summary.
Ahh, that is exactly what I was looking for. Wow, I'll definitely have to
track down that story and find out more about Mr. Leinster.
Thanks to you and the group for the excellent replies.
---
Stephen Ball
http://www.stephenball.net
Doug
> Internet predicted by science fiction authors?
>
> information) described by a science fiction author?
None come immediately to mind. Plenty of post-ARPANET stories come to
mind, including John Brunner's _Shockwave Rider_, Vernor Vinge's "True
Names" and Pete Townshend's "Lifehouse."
Doug
Terry Austin
>On Sat, 24 Aug 2002 21:01:16 -0400, Terry Austin wrote:
>
>(snip)
>>
>> "A Logic Name Joe" by Murray Leinster, 1946.
>>
>> http://www.troynovant.com/Franson/Leinster/Logic-Named-Joe.html has a
>> summary.
>
>Ahh, that is exactly what I was looking for. Wow, I'll definitely have to
>track down that story and find out more about Mr. Leinster.
That particular story is in a collection of Leinster that I got from the SF
Book Club. No idea if it's available elsewhere. Excellent stuff, lots of it
still as good, and relevant, today as it was 50 years ago. Worth the effort
to find.
Steven H Silver
wrote:
>On Sat, 24 Aug 2002 21:01:16 -0400, Terry Austin wrote:
>
>(snip)
>>
>> "A Logic Name Joe" by Murray Leinster, 1946.
>>
>> http://www.troynovant.com/Franson/Leinster/Logic-Named-Joe.html has a
>> summary.
>
>Ahh, that is exactly what I was looking for. Wow, I'll definitely have to
>track down that story and find out more about Mr. Leinster.
>
>Thanks to you and the group for the excellent replies.
According to the Murray Leinster website
(http://www.sfsite.com/~silverag/leinster.html), "A Logic Named Joe"
is available in:
Astounding, March 1946
Sidewise in Time, edited by Murray Leinster, Shasta, 1950
Science Fiction Carnival, edited by Fredric Brown & Mack Reynolds,
Shasta, 1953
Science Fiction Carnival, edited by Fredric Brown & Mack Reynolds,
Bantam, 1957
Modern Masterpieces of Science Fiction, edited by Sam Moscowitz,
World, 1965
Doorway Into Time, edited by Sam Moscowitz, MacFadden-Bartell, 1966
Souls in Metal, edited by Mike Ashley, St. Martin's, 1977
The Best of Murray Leinster, edited by J.J. Pierce, Ballantine, 1978
Science Fiction: The Best of Yesterday, edited by Arthur Liebman,
Richards Rosen, 1980
Great SF Stories 8 (1946), edited by Isaac Asimov, 1982
Golden Years of SF, edited by Isaac Asimov, Bonanza Books, 1984.
Machines That Think, edited by Isaac Asimov, Patricia Warreck & Martin
H. Greenberg, Wings Books, 1984
War with the Robots, edited by Isaac Asimov, Patricia Warreck & Martin
H. Greenberg, Wings Books, 1991
First Contacts, edited by Joe Rico, NESFA Press, 1998
Steven H Silver
Hugo Nominee, Best Fan Writer
Steven H Silver
http://www.sfsite.com/~silverag
Windycon XXIX Chairman
http://www.windycon.org
Midwest Construction 1 Chairman
http://www.sfsite.com/~silverag/Midwest_Construction.html
Kylinn
news:<65Q99.47169$Xa.21...@twister.southeast.rr.com>...
> In a discussion with friends an interesting topic came up: was the
> Internet predicted by science fiction authors?
>
> Was the Internet (a system given the public control over the flow of
> information) described by a science fiction author?
Depending on how broadly you define "Internet", the
earliest story I'm aware of with something like it
would be "The Machine Stops", E.M. Forster, 1909.
You can find it in several online collections.
Ky
--
Life is complex; it's partly real and partly imaginary.
Doug
I seem to recall that "Supertoys Last All Summer Long" by Aldiss (the
1969 basis for the film A.I.) mentions a wireless Internet-like thing.
Checking....
Yes, the World Data Network, with wrist communicators for people and
in-the-head communicators for the robots. It's a pretty impressive
story for only being a couple pages long.
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/5.01/ffsupertoys_pr.html
Doug
Lee Ann Rucker
Schilling <mscotts...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Was the Internet (a system given the public control over the flow of
> > information) described by a science fiction author?
>
> Not SF per se, but in one of his essays Heinlein predicted a system which
> could answer any question that has an answer. The Internet approaches that,
> though it ignores the last four words.
In _Friday_, the title character does research via something very like
web-surfing.
Karl M. Syring
That is no prediction, but a reference to Vannevar Bush's "As we may
think" from 1945:
http://www.theatlantic.com/unbound/flashbks/computer/bushf.htm
Karl M. Syring
Dan Goodman
Peter Meilinger
>Stephen Ball <sdb...@ec.rr.com> wrote:
>>On Sat, 24 Aug 2002 21:01:16 -0400, Terry Austin wrote:
>>> "A Logic Name Joe" by Murray Leinster, 1946.
Yep. Great story.
>>Ahh, that is exactly what I was looking for. Wow, I'll definitely have to
>>track down that story and find out more about Mr. Leinster.
>That particular story is in a collection of Leinster that I got from the SF
>Book Club. No idea if it's available elsewhere. Excellent stuff, lots of it
>still as good, and relevant, today as it was 50 years ago. Worth the effort
>to find.
Definitely. I've got it in the NESFA collection First Contacts, which
is chock full of great stories. Not sure if it's the same one you have.
NESFA's got a page for it at
http://www.nesfa.com/press/Books/Leinster.htm
I can't tell if you can buy it directly from NESFA, but you can
at Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0915368676/qid=1030452511/sr=2-2/ref=sr_2_2/102-1597609-9543314
Pete
Lee Ann Rucker
<syr...@email.com> wrote:
> > In _Friday_, the title character does research via something very like
> > web-surfing.
>
> That is no prediction, but a reference to Vannevar Bush's "As we may
> think" from 1945:
> http://www.theatlantic.com/unbound/flashbks/computer/bushf.htm
Cool - never seen that before - I'd heard of Bush, but only in a
general way.
Which prompts me to ask - did anyone predict anything like *Usenet*,
where people take advantage of "the speed and flexibility with which
the mind follows an associative trail" by asking questions of living
people instead of databases (or in the more usual case, posting
something erroneous which prompts knowledgeable people to show off by
correcting it - there's a Usenet law about it)?
Section 3 is also interesting - that explains why non-computer people
have been so sure it would be easy to get a computer to understand
spoken English - just combine a steno machine with a Vocoder. Bush
does explain why it wouldn't be easy, but the average person wouldn't
think it through that far.
Dan Goodman
news:270820021817389761%lru...@mac.com:
> In article <akeemd$1hrfoo$1...@ID-7529.news.dfncis.de>, Karl M. Syring
> <syr...@email.com> wrote:
>
>> > In _Friday_, the title character does research via something very like
>> > web-surfing.
>>
>> That is no prediction, but a reference to Vannevar Bush's "As we may
>> think" from 1945:
>> http://www.theatlantic.com/unbound/flashbks/computer/bushf.htm
>
> Cool - never seen that before - I'd heard of Bush, but only in a
> general way.
>
> Which prompts me to ask - did anyone predict anything like *Usenet*,
> where people take advantage of "the speed and flexibility with which
> the mind follows an associative trail" by asking questions of living
> people instead of databases (or in the more usual case, posting
> something erroneous which prompts knowledgeable people to show off by
> correcting it - there's a Usenet law about it)?
They did, but using telepathy (sometimes made possible by sufficiently
advanced technology) rather than anything as oldfashioned as computers.
Theodore Sturgeon, "The Skills of Xanadu" 1956.
Everett B. Cole, the "Philosophical Corps" series and others in the same
universe.
Note: Both predicted that such communication would make people kinder and
gentler to each other. This may not be completely true of Usenet.
Mark Blunden
The Machine Stops by E M Forster (1909).
It's ages since I read it, back in secondary school English class, but I
found it online:
http://brighton.ncsa.uiuc.edu/~prajlich/forster.html
It predicts an amazing portion of modern communications considering its
age - including video conferencing, e-mail (or an analogy thereof),
chatrooms and the like - plus the concept of technology creating social
isolation.
Here's a brief extract:
"For a moment Vashti felt lonely.
Then she generated the light, and the sight of her room, flooded with
radiance and studded with electric buttons, revived her. There were buttons
and switches everywhere - buttons to call for food for music, for clothing.
There was the hot-bath button, by pressure of which a basin of (imitation)
marble rose out of the floor, filled to the brim with a warm deodorized
liquid. There was the cold-bath button. There was the button that produced
literature. and there were of course the buttons by which she communicated
with her friends. The room, though it contained nothing, was in touch with
all that she cared for in the world."
--
Mark.
mark.b...@ntlworld.com
* Why make trillions when we could make... billions?
Mark Blunden
> Stephen Ball wrote:
>> In a discussion with friends an interesting topic came up: was the
>> Internet predicted by science fiction authors? While a friend of mine
>> contended that the Internet had largely escaped coherent prediction,
>> I feel certain that at least *one* author predicted something along
>> the lines of a network of information accessible and controllable by
>> the public. Unfortunately my knowledge of SF was inadequate to
>> sufficiently argue my claim, so I pose the question to the group.
>>
>> Was the Internet (a system given the public control over the flow of
>> information) described by a science fiction author?
>>
>> I have already located this webpage
>> (http://www.computer.org/computer/articles/vospost_1.htm), but none
>> of their sources seemed to adequately describe what I'm looking for.
>
> The Machine Stops by E M Forster (1909).
Oops, should've read the whole thread - someone beat me to this one.
--
Mark.
mark.b...@ntlworld.com
* Mmm - crunchy frog!
Alan Gore
>Murray Leinster, "A Logic Named Joe", 1946.
Except that all the information came off centralized servers. In those
New Deal days it was assumed that "the Authority would be essentially
good."
ag...@qwest.net | "Giving money and power to the government
Alan Gore | is like giving whiskey and car keys
Software For PC's, Inc. | to teenaged boys" - P. J. O'Rourke
http://www.alangore.com
Karl M. Syring
> Dan Goodman <dsg...@visi.com> wrote:
>
> >Murray Leinster, "A Logic Named Joe", 1946.
>
> Except that all the information came off centralized servers. In those
> New Deal days it was assumed that "the Authority would be essentially
> good."
Those times will soon come back for you. Look at things like "central
revocation of licenses" in the TCPA / Palladium FAQ:
http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/tcpa-faq.html
Karl M. Syring
Peter D. Tillman
ag...@qwest.net (Alan Gore) wrote:
> Dan Goodman <dsg...@visi.com> wrote:
>
> >Murray Leinster, "A Logic Named Joe", 1946.
>
> Except that all the information came off centralized servers. In those
> New Deal days it was assumed that "the Authority would be essentially
> good."
>
Except that the Logic named Joe, a PC cum TV cum visiphone cum household
net, could override the network's security provisions, for its goal of
providing better Logic service -- which would imply a PC considerably
smarter than anything we have now...
IIRC, Leinster postulated a 'Logic Service Co.' along the lines of the
old ATT/Bell setup: a regulated monopoly, with everyone in the country
(+/-) having Logic Co. service.
Anyway, neat story, one of Leinster's best IMO. As is Forster's
"The Machine Stops." Did Forster write more SF?
Cheers -- Pete Tillman
--
What do people mean when they say the computer went down on me?
--Marilyn Pittman/ Kate Nepveu
Dan Goodman
938ED8.090...@news.toast.net:
> In article <3d6d815e....@news.qwest.net>,
> ag...@qwest.net (Alan Gore) wrote:
>
>> Dan Goodman <dsg...@visi.com> wrote:
>>
>> >Murray Leinster, "A Logic Named Joe", 1946.
>>
>> Except that all the information came off centralized servers. In those
>> New Deal days it was assumed that "the Authority would be essentially
>> good."
>>
>
> Except that the Logic named Joe, a PC cum TV cum visiphone cum household
> net, could override the network's security provisions, for its goal of
> providing better Logic service -- which would imply a PC considerably
> smarter than anything we have now...
>
> IIRC, Leinster postulated a 'Logic Service Co.' along the lines of the
> old ATT/Bell setup: a regulated monopoly, with everyone in the country
> (+/-) having Logic Co. service.
>
> Anyway, neat story, one of Leinster's best IMO. As is Forster's
> "The Machine Stops." Did Forster write more SF?
He wrote some fantasy, but that may be his only sf.
Chris
together and basically running the planet, with people accessing it from
terminals all over, kind of an Internet idea?
machf
I'd say Multivac was more like a big, big mainframe with lots of dumb terminals
distributed all across the world...
--
__________ ____---____ Marco Antonio Checa Funcke
\_________D /-/---_----' Santiago de Surco, Lima, Peru
_H__/_/ http://machf.tripod.com
'-_____|(
remove the "no_me_j." and "sons.of." parts before replying
David Dyer-Bennet
> On Sat, 31 Aug 2002 23:02:16 -0000, Chris <chri...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Isn't most of Asimov's writing about Multivac, particularly when it is tied
> >together and basically running the planet, with people accessing it from
> >terminals all over, kind of an Internet idea?
>
> I'd say Multivac was more like a big, big mainframe with lots of dumb terminals
> distributed all across the world...
What's the difference? Remote timesharing, vs. distributed computing,
isn't that different. Both are interactive and user-driven, which is
the key point.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, dd...@dd-b.net / New TMDA anti-spam in test
John Dyer-Bennet 1915-2002 Memorial Site http://john.dyer-bennet.net
Book log: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/Ouroboros/booknotes/
New Dragaera mailing lists, see http://dragaera.info
Chris
> On Sat, 31 Aug 2002 23:02:16 -0000, Chris <chri...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>Isn't most of Asimov's writing about Multivac, particularly when it is
>>tied together and basically running the planet, with people accessing
>>it from terminals all over, kind of an Internet idea?
>
> I'd say Multivac was more like a big, big mainframe with lots of dumb
> terminals distributed all across the world...
Whereas the internet is one big network with lots of dumb users distributed
around the world :)
machf
Yes, I'd say that's the most accurate description of it I've ever heard!
<eg>