Author usenet presence: affecting buying?

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ale...@my-deja.com

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Feb 1, 2001, 6:32:07 AM2/1/01
to
Has anybody else here made buying decisions based
on the displayed behavior/views of the authors present
in this newsgroup? My own tally so far indicates that
online presence might not be a good strategy - so far,
I've made no buying decisions based on what authors
have posted here, confirmed a couple of cases where
I thought the authors seemed nice and reasonable enough
people for me to invest in their writings if other
sources confirmed their writings were interesting, while
two authors have outright disqualified themselves by
what I consider to be obnoxious behavior here. Am I
being extreme or do other participants sometimes
consider things like this as well?

A realated question; have you made go/no go decisions
based on what you have learned about writers (as opposed
to what you have learned about their writings) in
discussions here? I've identified at least one case where
everywthing I've read leads me to believe I'd enjoy
that person's writings, but where I have decided not
to contribute to their income because they hold beliefs
I find loathsome.

Alex


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/

Niall McAuley

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Feb 1, 2001, 7:37:08 AM2/1/01
to
ale...@my-deja.com wrote in message <95bhfn$cbo$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...

>Has anybody else here made buying decisions based
>on the displayed behavior/views of the authors present
>in this newsgroup?

I bought _The Stone Canal_ after reading Ken MacLeod's
articles here.
--
Niall [real address ends in se, not es.invalid]


Sea Wasp

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Feb 1, 2001, 7:29:40 AM2/1/01
to
ale...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> Has anybody else here made buying decisions based
> on the displayed behavior/views of the authors present
> in this newsgroup?

Yeah. If they have the guts to hang out on the newsgroups, I'm more
likely to buy their stuff. Even if their personal beliefs don't accord
with mine (like Eric Flint, f'rinstance) it's irrelevant to the point
that they're willing to come out in the open and take it on the chin.
O'course, they also have to be good at writing or this trick only
works once.

Several authors have gotten my money based either on their actual net
presence or on what I've learned about them online -- the list
includes (but isn't limited to) SM Stirling, David Weber, and Vernor
Vinge, none of whom I would have tried had I not either encountered
them, or material about them, online.

--
Sea Wasp http://www.wizvax.net/seawasp/index.html
/^\
;;; _Morgantown: The Jason Wood Chronicles_, at
http://www.hyperbooks.com/catalog/20040.html

kenn...@nortelnetworks.com

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Feb 1, 2001, 8:00:09 AM2/1/01
to
ale...@my-deja.com wrote:
> Has anybody else here made buying decisions based
> on the displayed behavior/views of the authors present
> in this newsgroup? My own tally so far indicates that
> online presence might not be a good strategy

Exactly the same as yourself. An author advertising him/
herself as good isn't going to sway me. 5-6 people saying,
"You'll like this book" will. An author I like being
a good Netizen = continued buys. I've not had the
"author I like acting badly" scenario. Not swayed by
unread authors being good Netizen's - writing/commenting
on here != good author. I'll wait for the recommendation
from others here.

As for your second question - cue big rows when/if people
answer!

--
David Kennedy, | kenn...@nortelnetworks.com
Northern Ireland Telecommunications | ESN: 6 751 2678
Engineering Centre (NITEC), | Phone: 01232 362678
Nortel Networks | Fax: 01232 363170

jti...@my-deja.com

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Feb 1, 2001, 8:17:38 AM2/1/01
to
In article <95bhfn$cbo$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,

I'd say posting is a marginal effect. S. Stirling writes interesting
screeds here occasionally, so I _did_ buy his first "Nantucket" book,
even though I loathe alternate history stories. It didn't suck as bad
as most of them. I didn't buy any of the other ones. Many of the
authors who post here seem to write roughly consistent with their off
line writing. Thus the marginal effect.

I tend to let reviews of books, rather than reviews of authors
influence my reading.

YMMV,
Jack Tingle

Ian A. York

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Feb 1, 2001, 8:30:08 AM2/1/01
to
In article <95bhfn$cbo$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, <ale...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>Has anybody else here made buying decisions based
>on the displayed behavior/views of the authors present
>in this newsgroup? My own tally so far indicates that
>online presence might not be a good strategy - so far,

I've bought one SF book based only the author's on-line presence. There
are a handful of authors whose on-line presence I dislike; that hasn't
made any difference. (For one, I've bought his/her books before and will
probably buy again--they've never been in my must-buy-at-once list, and
that hasn't changed. Others are not really doing thetypes of books I'm
interested in, but I'd say that I am more likely to notice the name in a
bookshop and take a look.)

If an author was to outright spam, I'd not buy his or her books; but while
a couple of namesI know have come close to that, they haven't crossed my
own personal line. They are neither helped nor hurt, much: perhaps
they're down half a notch on my list. I think there have been some openly
spammed book ads, but they've been by losers who wouldn't be on real
bookstores anyway; for them I just stay away from their ebook or whatever
crap it is.

So in general, an on-line *prsence* helps more than it hurts, for me; but
only if it's really a *presence*, not a hit-and-run marketing campaign,
which is more likely to hurt than help.

Ian
--
Ian York (iay...@panix.com) <http://www.panix.com/~iayork/>
"-but as he was a York, I am rather inclined to suppose him a
very respectable Man." -Jane Austen, The History of England

Christopher L. Taylor

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Feb 1, 2001, 8:43:51 AM2/1/01
to
ale...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> Has anybody else here made buying decisions based
> on the displayed behavior/views of the authors present
> in this newsgroup?

I don't not buy books by an author based upon their activities
in this newsgroup, though there are several authors who I started
buying because of their posts to this group:

Lawrence Watt-Evans
Brenda Clough
S.M. Stirling
Jo Walton

to name a few off the top of my head.

-- Chris Taylor

Chad R. Orzel

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Feb 1, 2001, 9:40:18 AM2/1/01
to
On Thu, 01 Feb 2001 11:32:07 GMT, ale...@my-deja.com wrote:

>Has anybody else here made buying decisions based
>on the displayed behavior/views of the authors present
>in this newsgroup?

Authors present here are more or elss evenly split between people
whose work I had read and liked before encountering them online, and
people whose work I hadn't read.

Of the former, most of them have confirmed my pre-existing opinions,
and solidified their places on my buy-on-sight lists (Guy Kay and
Steven Brust are good examples). A few of them have turned out to be a
bit goofy, but not goofy or obnoxious enough to bump them off the
lists.

As for those whose works I hadn't read before encountering them
online, I've only picked up a few books after "meeting" the author. Of
those, _The King's Peace,_ _Fool on the Hill_ and _Sewer, Gas, and
Electric_ were big hits. _The Cassini Division_ was more or less what
I expected, which is to say "not my type of book," but I knew enough
from reading this group to only buy it when it hit paperback.

As for the remainder, I passed over _How Like a God_ several times
before Brenda Clough began posting here, and now that I'd kind of like
to check it out, the damn thing's vanished from the shelves (though
the sequel is readily available...). I've also thought several times
of picking up some of Lawrence Watt-Evans's books, but I can never
find one that doesn't appear to be Book Six in some sort of series,
and I prefer to start at the beginning, if possible.

I'm probably forgetting a few other people who have written books that
I've never encountered or been interested in buying.

All in all, there's not much of an effect on my buying habits. I've
bought a grand total of four books based on online presence (though
I'm keeping an eye out for a few more), and I won't buy a second book
by a posting author unless I like the first one. The only really
noticeable effect is that one author has catapulted himself onto my
(very short) list of authors whose works I will never buy new.


Later,
OilCan

Brenda

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Feb 1, 2001, 10:19:40 AM2/1/01
to

Chad R. Orzel wrote:

> On Thu, 01 Feb 2001 11:32:07 GMT, ale...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> >Has anybody else here made buying decisions based
> >on the displayed behavior/views of the authors present
> >in this newsgroup?
>
> Authors present here are more or elss evenly split between people
> whose work I had read and liked before encountering them online, and
> people whose work I hadn't read.
>
> Of the former, most of them have confirmed my pre-existing opinions,
> and solidified their places on my buy-on-sight lists (Guy Kay and
> Steven Brust are good examples). A few of them have turned out to be a
> bit goofy, but not goofy or obnoxious enough to bump them off the
> lists.

I would expect the effect of a net presence to be fairly neutral. The
number of people outraged by your posts should be balanced by those who
are charmed by them. Unless you rabidly espouse some crazed and extreme
position that enrages everybody.


> As for the remainder, I passed over _How Like a God_ several times
> before Brenda Clough began posting here, and now that I'd kind of like
> to check it out, the damn thing's vanished from the shelves (though
> the sequel is readily available...).

Oh dear. I suggest Amazon, or, if your wallet is slim, Inter Library
Loan.

Brenda


--
---------
Brenda W. Clough, author of DOORS OF DEATH AND LIFE
From Tor Books in May 2000
http://www.sff.net/people/Brenda/


thomas jorgensen

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Feb 1, 2001, 1:08:18 PM2/1/01
to

ale...@my-deja.com wrote:

> Has anybody else here made buying decisions based
> on the displayed behavior/views of the authors present
> in this newsgroup? My own tally so far indicates that
> online presence might not be a good strategy - so far,
> I've made no buying decisions based on what authors
> have posted here, confirmed a couple of cases where
> I thought the authors seemed nice and reasonable enough
> people for me to invest in their writings if other
> sources confirmed their writings were interesting, while
> two authors have outright disqualified themselves by
> what I consider to be obnoxious behavior here. Am I
> being extreme or do other participants sometimes
> consider things like this as well?

Hmm. Lets see.. I'd say that a good solid online presense
makes me a lot more likely to at least try an authors works..
Curiosity plays a big part here and the fact that I've had
dammed good luck with this strategy so far doens't hurt.

I'd also say that having the author hang around on the
NG frequently seems to inspire a lot of discussion of
his or her works. which is a much more common reason
for me to buy books. When I can find them.
The poster who complained that he only seemed to
be able to find volume 6 of the various stuff Lawerence
Watt-evans writes has my sympaties as I have the exact
same problem.. I found two of his books and liked them,
but everything else I can find says "book 6 in series".
This is somewhat annoying..


Lois Tilton

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Feb 1, 2001, 1:36:17 PM2/1/01
to
thomas jorgensen <iced...@kampsax.dtu.dk> wrote:
> The poster who complained that he only seemed to
> be able to find volume 6 of the various stuff Lawerence
> Watt-evans writes has my sympaties as I have the exact
> same problem.. I found two of his books and liked them,
> but everything else I can find says "book 6 in series".
> This is somewhat annoying..

A number of LWE's earlier books are being reprinted by Wildside Press.
You might want to check them out.

--
LT
www.darkspawn.com
DARKSPAWN: the vampire fantasy


Charles Frederick Goodin

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Feb 1, 2001, 1:42:46 PM2/1/01
to
In article <3a797036...@news.earthlink.net>,
Chad R. Orzel <orz...@earthlink.net> wrote:
[snip]

>As for those whose works I hadn't read before encountering them
>online, I've only picked up a few books after "meeting" the author. Of
>those, _The King's Peace,_ _Fool on the Hill_ and _Sewer, Gas, and
>Electric_ were big hits. _The Cassini Division_ was more or less what
>I expected, which is to say "not my type of book," but I knew enough
>from reading this group to only buy it when it hit paperback.

I picked up _SGE_ and a couple of the Ken MacLeod books based on rasfw
threads about them and was impressed with both of them. I also picked up
a non-SF book by Nicholson Baker called _The Mezzanine_ after I'd
complained about the horrible quality of his semi-SF novel _The Fermata_.
_The Mezzanine_ was very good.

>As for the remainder, I passed over _How Like a God_ several times
>before Brenda Clough began posting here, and now that I'd kind of like
>to check it out, the damn thing's vanished from the shelves (though >the
>sequel is readily available...). I've also thought several times of
>picking up some of Lawrence Watt-Evans's books, but I can never find one
>that doesn't appear to be Book Six in some sort of series, and I prefer
>to start at the beginning, if possible.

I only got _How Like a God_ because of seeing it mentioned in a thread (I
think about real life superpowers) and I absolutely loved it. I showed it
to a houseguest one night and found him still awake finishing it off the
next morning. Very, very good book. And I, too, wish I could find the
Ethshar books in some sort of order.
--
chuk

Greg Deych

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Feb 1, 2001, 1:54:01 PM2/1/01
to
In article <95bhfn$cbo$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
ale...@my-deja.com wrote:
> Has anybody else here made buying decisions based
> on the displayed behavior/views of the authors present
> in this newsgroup? My own tally so far indicates that
> online presence might not be a good strategy - so far,
> I've made no buying decisions based on what authors
> have posted here, confirmed a couple of cases where
> I thought the authors seemed nice and reasonable enough
> people for me to invest in their writings if other
> sources confirmed their writings were interesting, while
> two authors have outright disqualified themselves by
> what I consider to be obnoxious behavior here. Am I
> being extreme or do other participants sometimes
> consider things like this as well?
>

I've had it go both ways: I've put off buingy Joel Rosenberg's books
because of a fairly spectacular flame by him that I came across 3
or 4 years back. I've actually broke down and bought a few
of his books, and was pleasantly surprised. On the other hand, I knew of
Jo Walton-of-the-Usenet quite before I learned of Jo Walton-
the writer, so when I happened to come across a book of hers,
I grabbed it without hesitation - I already knew I liked her "voice".
Mary Gentle was also somewhat the same, though I knew she
was a writer by the time I saw her posts. However, I probably
wouldn't have bought her books if I hadn't seen her on
r.a.s.w.

lal_truckee

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Feb 1, 2001, 2:05:58 PM2/1/01
to
In article <95bhfn$cbo$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
ale...@my-deja.com wrote:
> Has anybody else here made buying decisions based
> on the displayed behavior/views of the authors present
> in this newsgroup?

Well - I've dipped my toe in - not purchased, but library checkout of
1632/Flint partly because he doesn't seem completely lame online, and
partly because passing online comment led me to posted sample pages.

FWIW:
The positive; The book is well written, in that the words flow together
without jarring, and the 3x5 card history research seems reasonably
done, the characters aren't too often idiots or complete placeholders.
The negative; Slights the interesting parts of the premise (to me) about
how real problems could be solved with some handwaving about
super-competent Americans, he can't decide on his PoV since he has all
these 3x5 history research he wants to fit in, and the book is written
as an obvious set-up for what will undoubtably become an increasingly
ridiculous series (c.f. Sea of Time.)

Comment; How the hell did Jerry Sohl tell this story, of technical
castaways, in just a couple hundred pages in _Costigan's Needle_? These
modern wiz-bang authors seem to need thousands of pages to stumble
around within.

@hotmail.com.invalid Eric D. Berge

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Feb 1, 2001, 1:57:38 PM2/1/01
to
On Thu, 01 Feb 2001 11:32:07 GMT, ale...@my-deja.com wrote:

>Has anybody else here made buying decisions based
>on the displayed behavior/views of the authors present
>in this newsgroup?

The effect on me seems marginally positive.

I have bought and read books by Ken McCleod, Brenda Clough, and Lois
Tilton based on my positive impression of their net personas.

I had already read and formed opinions of L. M. Bujold, S. M.
Stirling, and Lawrence Watt-Evans before encountering them online;
their comportment here did not change my pre-existing opinions of
them.

I had already read Eric Flint's book-like products prior to
encountering him here; although he has not endeared himself to me
personally, I will in all likelihood buy and read more of his stuff.

John Ringo's appearance here inspired me to download and read his
sample chapters, which I liked about as well as I like the author,
which is to say, not at all. But then I wouldn't have bought his
books prior to encountering him, or liked them much if I had.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------
Eric D. Berge
(remove spaces for valid address)
Clay lies still, but blood's a rover
Breath's a ware that will not keep
Up, lad! When the journey's over
There'll be time enough to sleep.
- A.E.Housman, "Reveille"
------------------------------------------------------------------

Zara Baxter

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Feb 1, 2001, 2:59:08 PM2/1/01
to
On Thu, 01 Feb 2001 11:32:07 GMT, ale...@my-deja.com scrawled:

>Has anybody else here made buying decisions based
>on the displayed behavior/views of the authors present
>in this newsgroup?

Yes. I bought _A Point of Honor_ mainly because Dorothy seemed
eminently sensible, and erudite. It was at least partly my feelings
that if you can post coherently, and interestingly to usenet,
consistently, then you can probably write coherent, interesting
books. I proved myself right.

Slot Jo Walton, Catherine Asaro and Brenda Clough in the same
category. (I'm sure there's more, I just can't think of them)

I haven't read most of the threads that Ken McLeod posts to.

I don't think I've ever seen a real live Lawrence Watt-Evans book.

> a realated question; have you made go/no go decisions


>based on what you have learned about writers (as opposed
>to what you have learned about their writings) in
>discussions here?

Greg Egan had me not buying his books for about a year after he made
some posts to aus.sf. and here. He just rubbed the wrong way. I got
better, though, and just read Teranesia (which I thought was
wonderful).

On the other hand, nothing I've heard about Eric Flint's books
convinces me that they would be something I'd enjoy reading, but
Eric's postings to the group are very down to earth (which I admire),
and so I'd -like- to like them. Time to look at the Baen site.

Zara Baxter
--
Currently reading _A Wrinkle in Time_, Madeleine L'Engle;
_Titus Groan_, Mervyn Peake;
_The Book of Kells_, R.A.McAvoy;
_The Star Fraction_, Ken Mcleod.

Jerry Friedman

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Feb 1, 2001, 5:14:23 PM2/1/01
to
In article <3A79A611...@kampsax.dtu.dk>,
thomas jorgensen <iced...@kampsax.dtu.dk> wrote:
...

> The poster who complained that he only seemed to
> be able to find volume 6 of the various stuff Lawerence
> Watt-evans writes has my sympaties as I have the exact
> same problem.. I found two of his books and liked them,
> but everything else I can find says "book 6 in series".
> This is somewhat annoying..

LWE says on his Ethshar page at <http://www.ethshar.com/intro.html> that
you can start reading the Ethshar series at any of the books except _The
Spell of the Black Dagger_. I've read the first four books (and will
probably read the rest eventually), and I'd agree.

Of his four most recent books, _Dragon Weather_ is book 1 of a series,
_The Nightmare People_ (a horror reprint) and _Touched by the Gods_ are
self-contained, and __Night of Madness_ is an Ethshar novel, second
chronologically, that surely stands alone. So no need to be annoyed!

--
Jerry Friedman
jfri...@nnm.cc.nm.nos
Translate nos to us / Traduzca nos en us
and all the disclaimers

Keith Morrison

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Feb 1, 2001, 6:15:09 PM2/1/01
to
"Eric D. Berge" wrote:

> >Has anybody else here made buying decisions based
> >on the displayed behavior/views of the authors present
> >in this newsgroup?
>
> The effect on me seems marginally positive.
>
> I have bought and read books by Ken McCleod, Brenda Clough, and Lois
> Tilton based on my positive impression of their net personas.

I bought _How Like a God_ because I was arguing with Brenda about
some of the concepts it was putting forth.

--
Keith

John Schilling

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Feb 1, 2001, 7:17:11 PM2/1/01
to
ale...@my-deja.com writes:

>Has anybody else here made buying decisions based
>on the displayed behavior/views of the authors present
>in this newsgroup? My own tally so far indicates that
>online presence might not be a good strategy - so far,
>I've made no buying decisions based on what authors
>have posted here, confirmed a couple of cases where
>I thought the authors seemed nice and reasonable enough
>people for me to invest in their writings if other
>sources confirmed their writings were interesting, while
>two authors have outright disqualified themselves by
>what I consider to be obnoxious behavior here. Am I
>being extreme or do other participants sometimes
>consider things like this as well?

Well, one author who shall remain nameless seems to have
convinced quite a few people here to think twice before
buying any more of his books. But that's an extreme case;
you really have to work at it to create an impression so
negative that it diminishes the enjoyment of reading a good
book.

For the most part, any active participation here at very least
increases name recognition, and name recognition draws people's
attention to books they otherwise would not even notice. If
that recognition is coupled with an actively favorable personal
impression, even better. I can think of at least three authors
whose first sales to me *probably* would not have occurred if
I had not recognized their names from their postings here.
Jo Walton, Ken MacLeod, and John Ringo, FWIW.


That said, an online presence is probably not a good *strategy*,
because even with lurkers included I don't think there are enough
of us here to strongly affect the bottom line. And maintaining a
real presence here is a substantial investment in time; hit-and-run
spamming whenever a new book comes out is probably just a good way
to earn the number two spot for "author whose rasfw presence had a
negative sales impact".

Hanging out here is a hobby for authors, one which may incidentally
have a slight positive effect on their sales but can not be justified
on that basis.


--
*John Schilling * "Anything worth doing, *
*Member:AIAA,NRA,ACLU,SAS,LP * is worth doing for money" *
*Chief Scientist & General Partner * -13th Rule of Acquisition *
*White Elephant Research, LLC * "There is no substitute *
*schi...@spock.usc.edu * for success" *
*661-951-9107 or 661-275-6795 * -58th Rule of Acquisition *

Lois Tilton

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Feb 1, 2001, 7:35:19 PM2/1/01
to
John Schilling <schi...@spock.usc.edu> wrote:

> Hanging out here is a hobby for authors, one which may incidentally
> have a slight positive effect on their sales but can not be justified
> on that basis.


Sometimes authors are readers, too.

J.B. Moreno

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Feb 1, 2001, 7:48:50 PM2/1/01
to
Charles Frederick Goodin <cgo...@sfu.ca> wrote:

> Chad R. Orzel <orz...@earthlink.net> wrote:

> > I've also thought several times of
> >picking up some of Lawrence Watt-Evans's books, but I can never find one
> >that doesn't appear to be Book Six in some sort of series, and I prefer
> >to start at the beginning, if possible.
>

-snip-


> And I, too, wish I could find the Ethshar books in some sort of order.

Why? Each of the books pretty much stand alone -- on thinking about it,
I can't think of one that you have to read another book to get the full
enjoyment out of it.

--
JBM
"Moebius strippers only show you their back side." -- Unknown

Kate Nepveu

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Feb 1, 2001, 7:57:16 PM2/1/01
to
ale...@my-deja.com wrote:

> Has anybody else here made buying decisions based
> on the displayed behavior/views of the authors present
> in this newsgroup?

Besides _The King's Peace_, which is a special case, no.

If I've encountered authors here that I haven't read, it's because I
wasn't that interested in their books anyway. Thus, my personal opinion
is irrelevant.

Authors I've encountered here that I've read already have not done
anything that would make me unhappy about putting money in their
pockets. It would take something pretty serious for that, as generally
I can divorce these things fairly well.

I suppose that seeing a name on the group a lot might pique my curiosity
if I was browsing on the shelves--"Hey, so-and-so seems like an
interesting person, I wonder what this book is about?--but so far there
haven't been any examples of that.

Kate
--
http://www.steelypips.org/elsewhere.html -- Paired Reading Page; Reviews
"'Hi!' she said brightly. 'I'm the inner babysitter!'"
--Getting in touch with one's inner child is not always wise
Terry Pratchett, _Hogfather_

John S. Novak, III

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Feb 1, 2001, 9:07:17 PM2/1/01
to
On Thu, 01 Feb 2001 11:32:07 GMT, ale...@my-deja.com
<ale...@my-deja.com> wrote:

>Has anybody else here made buying decisions based
>on the displayed behavior/views of the authors present
>in this newsgroup?

Somewhat.

In general, author contributions to the newsgroup tend to make me more
interested in a book than otherwise. I've read some books solely
because the author made a favorable impression on me.

Also in general, it's hard to make such a negative impression on me
that I'll actually _stop_ buying books. More likely, I'll be moved to
buy books only at used bookstores, thus denying them the sales figure
or income, as a token protest. Doesn't happen often (two or three
authors since the 80's) but it does happen.

And it doesn't happen just by holding contrary opinions to mine. It
happens by being a schmuck.

--
John S. Novak, III j...@concentric.net
The Humblest Man on the Net

shado...@my-deja.com

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Feb 1, 2001, 9:17:09 PM2/1/01
to
ale...@my-deja.com wrote:
> Has anybody else here made buying decisions based
> on the displayed behavior/views of the authors present
> in this newsgroup?
---------- cut -----------

> A realated question; have you made go/no go decisions
> based on what you have learned about writers (as opposed
> to what you have learned about their writings) in
> discussions here? I've identified at least one case where
> everywthing I've read leads me to believe I'd enjoy
> that person's writings, but where I have decided not
> to contribute to their income because they hold beliefs
> I find loathsome.
>

To the first question, yes, I've recently bought two books based on what
two authors have posted here. In both cases, they recommended books by
other authors. Thanks to both; they are great discoveries.

The second question I find a little astonishing. I would never make a
purchase decision based on beliefs. Heinlein is one of my favorite all
time authors despite the fact I disagree with 98% of his views. Some of
my favorite books today are by the people around Baen books, and again
I'm pretty sure our views don't mesh. If you have a good story to tell,
I'll read it. And besides, I've learned a lot from those books I don't
agree with. Just because an idea belongs to a camp you don't agree with
doesn't make it wrong.

------------
One time quote. Yeah, I got beliefs too. I just don't see the point of
rubbing your nose in 'em.

David Dvorkin

unread,
Feb 1, 2001, 9:58:01 PM2/1/01
to
On 1 Feb 2001 18:36:17 GMT, Lois Tilton <lti...@shell-1.enteract.com>
wrote:

>A number of LWE's earlier books are being reprinted by Wildside Press.
>You might want to check them out.
>
>--
>LT
>www.darkspawn.com
>DARKSPAWN: the vampire fantasy

In fact, Lois, everyone should check out the entire Wildside list,
shouldn't they?

Lois Tilton

unread,
Feb 1, 2001, 10:28:27 PM2/1/01
to
David Dvorkin <da...@dvorkin.com> wrote:

> In fact, Lois, everyone should check out the entire Wildside list,
> shouldn't they?

How could I dispute this?

Eflint46312

unread,
Feb 1, 2001, 11:30:25 PM2/1/01
to
>Subject: Re: Author usenet presence: affecting buying?
>From: schi...@spock.usc.edu (John Schilling)
>Date: 2/1/01 6:17 PM Central Standard Time
>Message-id: <95cua7$ako$1...@spock.usc.edu>

>Hanging out here is a hobby for authors, one which may incidentally
>have a slight positive effect on their sales but can not be justified
>on that basis.

I agree. I certainly don't hang out here because I care, one way or the other,
whether it influences people to buy my books. And my immediate reaction
wherever something I say here annoys someone enough to threaten me with
withholding their sales is: "Good. Please don't buy my books."

Partly that's because of my naturally cantankerous disposition, but it's also
just a recognition of the inexorable math involved. To make a living as a
writer, you have to be able to sell tens of thousands of copies of any of your
books. A handful of sales won or lost -- here or anywhere -- is just such a
drop in the bucket that it really doesn't matter. Probably 99% of the people
who buy my novels have never heard of either rasfw or Baen's Bar, which is the
other place on the web I post regularly.

So why do I do it? For the same reason everyone else does, I imagine. For the
fun of it. What the hell, it beats watching TV.

Eric

Lawrence Watt-Evans

unread,
Feb 2, 2001, 1:28:31 AM2/2/01
to
On Thu, 01 Feb 2001 19:08:18 +0100, thomas jorgensen
<iced...@kampsax.dtu.dk> wrote:

>The poster who complained that he only seemed to
>be able to find volume 6 of the various stuff Lawerence
>Watt-evans writes has my sympaties as I have the exact
>same problem.. I found two of his books and liked them,
>but everything else I can find says "book 6 in series".
>This is somewhat annoying..

It's also a mighty good trick, since I've only ever written one series
that ran more than four volumes, and the volumes in that series don't
have any numbers on them because they can be read in any order.

(Except _The Spell of the Black Dagger_ shouldn't be first. It _can_
be, and it'll still make sense, but it works better if you read _With
A Single Spell_ before it.)

--

The Misenchanted Page: http://www.sff.net/people/LWE/ Last update 11/8/00
My latest novel is NIGHT OF MADNESS

Lawrence Watt-Evans

unread,
Feb 2, 2001, 2:23:49 AM2/2/01
to
On 1 Feb 2001 18:42:46 GMT, cgo...@sfu.ca (Charles Frederick Goodin)
wrote:

> And I, too, wish I could find the
>Ethshar books in some sort of order.

a) You can read them in any order, with the possible exception of
_The Spell of the Black Dagger_,

b) They'll all be available soon -- new ones from Tor, and the old
ones back in print from Wildside Press. _The Misenchanted Sword_
(first in the series) is available now, _With A Single Spell_ is on
its way to press, and I'm taking a break from checking the proofs of
_The Unwilling Warlord_ to post this. All of them should be out by
October.

Admittedly, the Wildside editions are a little on the expensive side,
but they're nice books, and each one also reprints a short story in
the back.

Lawrence Watt-Evans

unread,
Feb 2, 2001, 2:24:44 AM2/2/01
to
On 1 Feb 2001 18:36:17 GMT, Lois Tilton <lti...@shell-1.enteract.com>
wrote:

>A number of LWE's earlier books are being reprinted by Wildside Press.


>You might want to check them out.

A couple of non-series titles are being reprinted by FoxAcre Press,
too.

Niall McAuley

unread,
Feb 2, 2001, 4:57:42 AM2/2/01
to
Eflint46312 wrote in message <20010201233025...@ng-bg1.aol.com>...

>Probably 99% of the people who buy my novels have never heard of either rasfw
>or Baen's Bar, which is the other place on the web I post regularly.


Nitpick: this place is not on the web. This is a newsgroup on Usenet.

The "What is Usenet?" FAQ says:

>Note that the correct term is "newsgroups"; they are not called areas,
>bases, boards, bboards, conferences, round tables, SIGs, echoes, rooms or
>usergroups! Nor, as noted above, are they part of the Internet, though
>they may reach your site over it."

It doesn't mention the fact that newsgroups are not on or part
of the web, presumably because that FAQ is older than the web.
--
Niall [real address ends in se, not es.invalid]

Leif Magnar Kj|nn|y

unread,
Feb 2, 2001, 5:10:58 AM2/2/01
to
In article <95bhfn$cbo$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, <ale...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>Has anybody else here made buying decisions based
>on the displayed behavior/views of the authors present
>in this newsgroup?

Only as an exception -- I can think of a couple of cases where that
*might* have been an influence (specifically Jo Walton, whose online
presence was known for ages before she got her first novel published
last year, and Ken MacLeod, of whom I was aware as a clueful poster
first and author second). The main influence this group has had on
my book-buying habits is all based on general discussion about books
and authors mostly without participation by the authors themselves;
much of what I've bought over the past 8+ years is stuff I might
never have discovered without rasfw.

>I've identified at least one case where
>everywthing I've read leads me to believe I'd enjoy
>that person's writings, but where I have decided not
>to contribute to their income because they hold beliefs
>I find loathsome.

For which we have libriaries.

--
Leif Kj{\o}nn{\o}y | "Its habit of getting up late you'll agree
www.pvv.org/~leifmk| That it carries too far, when I say
Math geek and gamer| That it frequently breakfasts at five-o'clock tea,
GURPS, Harn, CORPS | And dines on the following day." (Carroll)

ale...@my-deja.com

unread,
Feb 2, 2001, 6:25:53 AM2/2/01
to
In article <95d5b1$t0p$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
shado...@my-deja.com wrote:

> The second question I find a little astonishing. I would never make a
> purchase decision based on beliefs. Heinlein is one of my favorite all
> time authors despite the fact I disagree with 98% of his views. Some
of
> my favorite books today are by the people around Baen books, and again
> I'm pretty sure our views don't mesh. If you have a good story to
tell,
> I'll read it. And besides, I've learned a lot from those books I don't
> agree with. Just because an idea belongs to a camp you don't agree
with
> doesn't make it wrong.

I'm not hunting them down and killing them, mind. While they are
free to write and believe anything they please, I'm free to determine
whether or not to support them with my money. Of course, I don't
do this because the writer seems to disagree with me about favorite
color or stuff like that - the cases I have identified here are
persons who embrace an ideology I've spent much time thinking about
and rejecting already. And I know I pay a price - in enjoyable
reading, possibly rewarding ideas and sheer fun - but I'm willing
to do so because of some darn principle anyway.

Alex

ale...@my-deja.com

unread,
Feb 2, 2001, 6:43:21 AM2/2/01
to
In article <95e13i$np9$1...@tyfon.itea.ntnu.no>,

lei...@pvv.ntnu.no (Leif Magnar Kj|nn|y) wrote:
> In article <95bhfn$cbo$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, <ale...@my-deja.com>
wrote:
> >I've identified at least one case where
> >everywthing I've read leads me to believe I'd enjoy
> >that person's writings, but where I have decided not
> >to contribute to their income because they hold beliefs
> >I find loathsome.
>
> For which we have libriaries.

I don't agree. While libraries are great for checking out authors
you think you may enjoy, I'd feel like a lousy hypocrite if I went
to the library to read a book I know I'll enjoy just because I
don't want the author to profit by my enjoyment of his/her work.
These days, money fortunately no longer being an object, I even buy
the books I've previously borrowed if I enjoyed them. As I see it,
if I'm going to boycott an author, the least I can do is to deny
myself the enjoyment of reading their works.

Generally speaking, I can see about three reasons to borrow books
at libraries; you're young and poor (and will make it up to the author
by buing their works when you're in a position to do so); the book is
out of print; you want to check an author out. And I'm not really
sure I'm entitled in the third case anyway - it's not like I can
demand to watch a Lucas movie for free to check out if I like his
style, is it?

thomas...@bluetail.com

unread,
Feb 2, 2001, 7:58:35 AM2/2/01
to

ale...@my-deja.com writes:

> A realated question; have you made go/no go decisions
> based on what you have learned about writers (as opposed
> to what you have learned about their writings) in

> discussions here? /.../

Well, I think I'd buy Jo Walton's stuff if I ever saw it. Also, I
have given authors I've seen on the net an extra look based on their
net presence, and often a trial purchase.

Basically, if you're thinking interesting thoughts on the net, I'm
willing to think your writing is interesting as well.

On the other hand, this is a secondary factor. I tend to buy more due
to recommendations from the net. This group provides the primary basis
of my SF&F purchases these days. (Maddeningly enough for a marketer,
I tend to like and buy the narrow, almost-lost-in-the-noise books more
than those getting endless threads. For instance, I'd buy Will
Shetterly's Dog Town (?) if I saw it.)

Thomas
--
Thomas Lindgren thoma...@alteon.com
Alteon WebSystems

Kate Nepveu

unread,
Feb 2, 2001, 9:01:27 AM2/2/01
to
thomas...@bluetail.com wrote:

> (Maddeningly enough for a marketer,
> I tend to like and buy the narrow, almost-lost-in-the-noise books more
> than those getting endless threads. For instance, I'd buy Will
> Shetterly's Dog Town (?) if I saw it.)

_Dogland_; I don't know where, physically, you are, but it's available
in the US as a trade paperback.

It is, indeed, very good, and I'm long overdue for a re-read of it.

Carol Hague

unread,
Feb 2, 2001, 10:13:08 AM2/2/01
to
<ale...@my-deja.com> wrote:

> Generally speaking, I can see about three reasons to borrow books
> at libraries; you're young and poor (and will make it up to the author
> by buing their works when you're in a position to do so); the book is
> out of print; you want to check an author out.

What about being not-so-young and poor? Not everyone reaches a point in
their life where they can afford to buy all the books they want to read
- are they morally wrong somehow for continuing to use a library?

And, in the UK at least, the author does get a small sum for each time
their book is borrowed from the library. While you probably need to be
Stephen King or Terry Pratchett to make more than a couple of pounds a
year that way, at least it's something. And of course the library buys
the book in the first place. And if you're a taxpayer, you've helped pay
for the library, and by extension, for the book.

I, for one, have read a lot of books from libraries, which have led to
authors getting sales that they probably wouldn't otherwise have got,
because I wouldn't have risked buying the book in case I didn't like it.


>And I'm not really
> sure I'm entitled in the third case anyway - it's not like I can
> demand to watch a Lucas movie for free to check out if I like his
> style, is it?

They don't put films on television where you live ?
(OK, so strictly speaking that's not "free" especially here in TV
Licence Land, but it's a comparatively cheap way to see if you like a
director's films or not)

Carol Hague, puzzled at the idea that there's something wrong with using
libraries...
--
"There is no problem that cannot be solved by chocolate." - Buffy, BtVS

James Nicoll

unread,
Feb 2, 2001, 10:51:41 AM2/2/01
to
In article <1eo7fe7.6hxw7uhhr700N%carol...@bigwig.net>,
Carol Hague <ca...@wrhpv.com> wrote:

big big snip

>Carol Hague, puzzled at the idea that there's something wrong with using
>libraries...

You clearly weren't on rab when one of the libertarian nutjobs[1]
went on a Libraries Are Theft rant [One particular LW, whose name I have
since forgotten, but that was his one issue].

As might be expected, Canada's north is pretty highly connected
to the net. The territory with the highest rate of connection seriously
proposed dropping funding for public libraries in favour of subsidising
net connections. The problem, or _a_ problem with this is that net
connection was strongly correlated with race and the measure would have
made it that much harder for Inuit and other native groups in the region
to get access to information. The First Nations don't actually need further
screwing over. Neither do libraries, come to think of it.

ObSF: _Web of Angels_.

James Nicoll

1: If I thought _all_ libertarians were nutjobs, I wouldn't have included
both words. I'm sure the percentage of libertarians who can be
trusted with sharp objects must be as high as in any other
fringe group.

Eimear Ni Mhealoid

unread,
Feb 2, 2001, 11:05:44 AM2/2/01
to

Chad R. Orzel <orz...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3a797036...@news.earthlink.net...

> As for the remainder, I passed over _How Like a God_ several times
> before Brenda Clough began posting here, and now that I'd kind of like
> to check it out, the damn thing's vanished from the shelves (though
> the sequel is readily available...).

Well, Brenda's posts led me to her website, and chapter extracts; I decided
I might pick it up sometime, since I was sure I'd seen one copy in Forbidden
Planet. The day some pirate posted here that he'd illegally scanned it and
posted it on a binaries newsgroup, I hotfooted it over to FP and bought it.
I wasn't sorry.

I'm sure I'd never have heard of (not to mind bought) Jo's book without
Usenet, until it whenever it got a British publication. Even then it might
have got mentally branded "Arthurian stuff" and been avoided like the
plague. There's a lot of Arthur-related stuff out there that's probably
good but I won't read because I've had enough. Whereas I knew from
discussion and from the sample chapters of _The King's Peace_ that it was
something different.


--
Eimear Ni Mhealoid

Brenda

unread,
Feb 2, 2001, 10:57:48 AM2/2/01
to

ale...@my-deja.com wrote:

> Generally speaking, I can see about three reasons to borrow books
> at libraries; you're young and poor (and will make it up to the author
> by buing their works when you're in a position to do so); the book is
> out of print; you want to check an author out. And I'm not really
> sure I'm entitled in the third case anyway - it's not like I can
> demand to watch a Lucas movie for free to check out if I like his
> style, is it?

I check books out from the library that I am only going to need on a
temporary basis -- one-shot research works, fiction that I'm not sure is a
keeper, things of ephemeral interest, and so forth. It would not be
possible for me to buy every book that I read, and if I did I could not
possibly afford a building big enough to house them.

And the books in the library are not free. You pay for them, or your
fellow citizens do, with real estate or county or sales taxes. It is a
cost that society has more or less deemed worthwhile, because it promotes
literacy and a well-informed populace.

Brenda

--
---------
Brenda W. Clough, author of DOORS OF DEATH AND LIFE
From Tor Books in May 2000
http://www.sff.net/people/Brenda/


ale...@my-deja.com

unread,
Feb 2, 2001, 12:17:53 PM2/2/01
to
In article <1eo7fe7.6hxw7uhhr700N%carol...@bigwig.net>,

ca...@wrhpv.com wrote:
> <ale...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > Generally speaking, I can see about three reasons to borrow books
> > at libraries; you're young and poor (and will make it up to the
author
> > by buying their works when you're in a position to do so); the book

is
> > out of print; you want to check an author out.
>
> What about being not-so-young and poor? Not everyone reaches a point
in
> their life where they can afford to buy all the books they want to
read
> - are they morally wrong somehow for continuing to use a library?

I'd say so - at least as reading for pleasure goes. Books, like
anything else, aren't free - they represent effort on the part
of the author, the publisher, the editor and countless other people
who expect to eat too. I can't and won't condemn people who borrow
a lot of pleasure reading at the library - we pay taxes for the
damn things to sit there, after all - but wouldn't personally be
comfortable with printing out the list of "interesting reads from
rasfw" and go down to the library for a borrowing spree.

> And, in the UK at least, the author does get a small sum for each time
> their book is borrowed from the library. While you probably need to be
> Stephen King or Terry Pratchett to make more than a couple of pounds a
> year that way, at least it's something. And of course the library buys
> the book in the first place. And if you're a taxpayer, you've helped
pay
> for the library, and by extension, for the book.

Yes, I know all that. Books are more important, I think, than most
other "luxuries", so let's make some allowances for for a public
interest in education, litteracy and whatnot. But I still think that
going down to a library, borrowing all books any one author has
written, reading them and then saying "Well, I didn't really like it,
so I won't buy it," is wrong. Even if you happen to be poor.

> I, for one, have read a lot of books from libraries, which have led to
> authors getting sales that they probably wouldn't otherwise have got,
> because I wouldn't have risked buying the book in case I didn't like
it.

So have I. But even when I was a lot poorer than I am today, I
did try not to abuse the priviledge of being able to read any
book I liked for free. I've never had a higher borrow/buy ratio
than one, and these days I will only borrow things I can't find
becuase they're out of print.

> >And I'm not really
> > sure I'm entitled in the third case anyway - it's not like I can
> > demand to watch a Lucas movie for free to check out if I like his
> > style, is it?
>
> They don't put films on television where you live ?

It's a question of availability. You can't chose when national
TV will put on your favorite film for your viewing pleasure, can
you?

Look, I don't think it's wrong for anyone to use the library. I
just happen to think that you ought to do so with some consideration,
if for no other reason then at least to encourage people whose
wrintings you like to write more. And I thought that the proposed
use of library to knowingly deprive an author I'd like to read
but can't really bring myself to pay the income from my reading
his or her works was downright immoral.

Anyway, this is now way off-topic. Sorry for bringing it up in the
first place.

Richard A. Knaak

unread,
Feb 2, 2001, 1:17:35 PM2/2/01
to

I'd pretty much have to agree with that, Eric.

Richard A. Knaak

WARCRAFT:DAY OF THE DRAGON
Simon & Schuster
http://www.sff.net/people/knaak

Richard A. Knaak

unread,
Feb 2, 2001, 1:19:25 PM2/2/01
to
And glad I am to hear they're back in print, Lawrence. The Misenchanted
Sword is still one of my favorites of yours. Did I miss earlier; are they
publishing the Lord of Dus, too?

> From: Lawrence Watt-Evans <lawr...@clark.net>
> Organization: Verio
> Reply-To: lawr...@clark.net
> Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
> Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 02:23:49 -0500
> Subject: Re: Author usenet presence: affecting buying?
>

Michael S. Schiffer

unread,
Feb 2, 2001, 12:25:53 PM2/2/01
to
><ale...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>> Generally speaking, I can see about three reasons to borrow books
>> at libraries; you're young and poor (and will make it up to the author
>> by buing their works when you're in a position to do so); the book is
>> out of print; you want to check an author out.

>What about being not-so-young and poor? Not everyone reaches a point in
>their life where they can afford to buy all the books they want to read
>- are they morally wrong somehow for continuing to use a library?

>And, in the UK at least, the author does get a small sum for each time
>their book is borrowed from the library. While you probably need to be
>Stephen King or Terry Pratchett to make more than a couple of pounds a
>year that way, at least it's something.

As I understand it, there's a cap on what authors get from the British
library system. So Pratchett gets the max, but it's not much compared
to what he realizes from book sales.

And of course the library buys
>the book in the first place. And if you're a taxpayer, you've helped pay
>for the library, and by extension, for the book.

That's the real answer, IMHO. I'm allowed to lend out my books to
whomever I want, after all. Libraries are just institutions for doing
that on a broader basis. If it had turned out that the result was to
make it impossible for authors and publishers to make a profit (and
thereby removing the incentive to produce more books) we might have
had to reconsider the way that worked. In practice, we've had a
century or two of experience with lending libraries. Not only didn't
they destroy the business of publishing, but most publishers and
authors seem to think that they ultimately enhance sales by giving the
books exposure. (I don't know whether the British system of library
payments has resulted in more books being produced by British authors
or not, but there doesn't seem to be a shortage of new books in the US
at the moment.)

The growing existence of cheap copying technology has raised
different issues, since it blurs the distinction between lending and
copying. And as a result, various laws and licensing agreements have
started to make it difficult to lend or resell some types of
copyrighted material. But I can't see any _moral_ problems with
either lending something or reselling it or giving it away. It's only
when you make another copy without the consent of the copyright
owner-- copyright, is after all, an exclusive right to control
_copying_-- that ethical problems arise, IMHO, or that legal problems
should. (Figuring out what constitutes copying vs. lending in
electronic media is an evolving and rather difficult question. But
with hardcopy books there's not a lot of ambiguity.)

>...

>>And I'm not really
>> sure I'm entitled in the third case anyway - it's not like I can
>> demand to watch a Lucas movie for free to check out if I like his
>> style, is it?

Lucas is free to distribute his movies however he chooses. (And as I
understand it, he's reluctant to release them on DVD due to copying
issues.) But once he's released it, the owners of the copies mostly
have the right to lend them out to whomever they want. If I want to
watch "Star Wars" I can borrow it from my brother. Or from the local
library. What's the difference? (I do think there's some unfairness
in libraries using tax dollars to compete with video stores, but my
local library concentrates on movies that tend not to show up at the
local Blockbuster, which seems fair enough. Still, I don't feel
George Lucas has anything to kick about either way.)

Mike


--
Michael S. Schiffer, LHN, FCS If reading in an archive, please do
ms...@mediaone.net not click on words highlighted as links
msch...@condor.depaul.edu by Deja or other archives. They violate
the author's copyright and his wishes.

Richard A. Knaak

unread,
Feb 2, 2001, 1:23:34 PM2/2/01
to
I very much believe in libraries and if someone tells me that they'll check
out my books there, I'm fine. Hey, at the very worst it'll mean that the
library has them and, better yet, that there are still people who read out
there. :>

Richard A. Knaak
WARCRAFT: DAY OF THE DRAGON
Simon & Schuster
http://www.sff.net/people/knaak

> From: carol...@bigwig.net (Carol Hague)
> Organization: Westcountry Recumbents
> Reply-To: ca...@wrhpv.com
> Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
> Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 15:13:08 +0000
> Subject: Re: Author usenet presence: affecting buying?
>

Lawrence Watt-Evans

unread,
Feb 2, 2001, 1:25:28 PM2/2/01
to
On Fri, 02 Feb 2001 12:19:25 -0600, "Richard A. Knaak"
<rkn...@centurytel.net> wrote:

>And glad I am to hear they're back in print, Lawrence. The Misenchanted
>Sword is still one of my favorites of yours. Did I miss earlier; are they
>publishing the Lord of Dus, too?

Nope. Because I wrote those before I had a computer, so I don't have
any files to work from and nobody wants to bother scanning-and-editing
or re-keying them.

(I got my first computer, an IBM PC-1, 256 KB of memory, dual floppy
drives, in 1984, midway through writing _The Misenchanted Sword_.)


--

The Misenchanted Page: http://www.sff.net/people/LWE/ Last update 1/29/01

James Nicoll

unread,
Feb 2, 2001, 1:28:49 PM2/2/01
to
In article <95eq3k$8k2$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, <ale...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
>I'd say so - at least as reading for pleasure goes. Books, like
>anything else, aren't free - they represent effort on the part
>of the author, the publisher, the editor and countless other people
>who expect to eat too. I can't and won't condemn people who borrow
>a lot of pleasure reading at the library - we pay taxes for the
>damn things to sit there, after all - but wouldn't personally be
>comfortable with printing out the list of "interesting reads from
>rasfw" and go down to the library for a borrowing spree.

Do you pay taxes? Because if you do, you helped build or
maintain that library. Do you object to using non-toll roads?

Your signing out a particula book may be the difference
between a book being kept by the library or discarded.

Sea Wasp

unread,
Feb 2, 2001, 1:21:56 PM2/2/01
to
Lawrence Watt-Evans wrote:
>
> On Fri, 02 Feb 2001 12:19:25 -0600, "Richard A. Knaak"
> <rkn...@centurytel.net> wrote:
>
> >And glad I am to hear they're back in print, Lawrence. The Misenchanted
> >Sword is still one of my favorites of yours. Did I miss earlier; are they
> >publishing the Lord of Dus, too?
>
> Nope. Because I wrote those before I had a computer, so I don't have
> any files to work from and nobody wants to bother scanning-and-editing
> or re-keying them.

Not "NOBODY".

Nobody who also happens to own a publishing company and/or who has
the time to do it for free.

Were I posessed of the free time to do a good job of it, I'd do it
Gratis.

If you're in no hurry, I'll think about doing it gratis anyway...


--
Sea Wasp http://www.wizvax.net/seawasp/index.html
/^\
;;; _Morgantown: The Jason Wood Chronicles_, at
http://www.hyperbooks.com/catalog/20040.html

Charles Frederick Goodin

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Feb 2, 2001, 2:11:28 PM2/2/01
to
In article <Vsse6.14643$Sl.6...@iad-read.news.verio.net>,

Lawrence Watt-Evans <lawr...@clark.net> wrote:
>On Thu, 01 Feb 2001 19:08:18 +0100, thomas jorgensen
><iced...@kampsax.dtu.dk> wrote:
>
>>The poster who complained that he only seemed to
>>be able to find volume 6 of the various stuff Lawerence
>>Watt-evans writes has my sympaties as I have the exact
>>same problem.. I found two of his books and liked them,
>>but everything else I can find says "book 6 in series".
>>This is somewhat annoying..
>
>It's also a mighty good trick, since I've only ever written one series
>that ran more than four volumes, and the volumes in that series don't
>have any numbers on them because they can be read in any order.
>
>(Except _The Spell of the Black Dagger_ shouldn't be first. It _can_
>be, and it'll still make sense, but it works better if you read _With
>A Single Spell_ before it.)

_The Spell of the Black Dagger_ was the first Ethshar book I read. Since
then, I've read the one about the winged girl and (I think) _The
Misenchanted Sword_. I guess the libraries around here just don't seem to
have them.

I really liked the Three Worlds trilogy (or whatever those books ending
with _The Reign of the Brown Magician_ were called), and the recent
_Touched by the Gods_ was excellent. Non-stereotypical fantasy with great
writing to boot.


--
chuk

Brian B. Rodenborn

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Feb 2, 2001, 2:22:36 PM2/2/01
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In article <B6A05746.7769%rkn...@centurytel.net>,

Richard A. Knaak <rkn...@centurytel.net> wrote:
>I very much believe in libraries and if someone tells me that they'll check
>out my books there, I'm fine. Hey, at the very worst it'll mean that the
>library has them and, better yet, that there are still people who read out
>there. :>

I've been using the public library heavily the past year, ever since I
discovered that they have a nifty web interface to the catalog.

In that time, a number of the books I've wanted weren't in their system,
so I put in requests. Generally, if the title is available, the library
will purchase it. The fewest copies they've purchased of any requested
title has been two copies, the largest 15.

My most recent request was Tales of the Dying Earth. They bought eight
copies of it. I just checked, and currently half of those are checked
out.

I have been successful in adding several Avram Davidson titles to their
collection, and I hope that will lead to more fans of this wonderful
and underappreciated author.

Basically, I use the library, and have no qualms about it. Those who
think I'm morally wrong can do so, but it shan't sway my views in the
slightest.

--
My troubles are many They're deep as a well
I swear there ain't no heaven And I pray there ain't no hell
But I'll never know by livin' Only my dyin' will tell
- Laura Nyro (RIP)

Charles Frederick Goodin

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Feb 2, 2001, 2:35:47 PM2/2/01
to
In article <1eo5p8g.bnyx3pvjslxeN%pl...@newsreaders.com>,
J.B. Moreno <pl...@newsreaders.com> wrote:
>Charles Frederick Goodin <cgo...@sfu.ca> wrote:
>
>> Chad R. Orzel <orz...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> > I've also thought several times of
>> >picking up some of Lawrence Watt-Evans's books, but I can never find one
>> >that doesn't appear to be Book Six in some sort of series, and I prefer
>> >to start at the beginning, if possible.
>>
> -snip-

>> And I, too, wish I could find the Ethshar books in some sort of order.
>
>Why? Each of the books pretty much stand alone -- on thinking about it,
>I can't think of one that you have to read another book to get the full
>enjoyment out of it.

That's good. But, not having yet read them, I didn't know that. The
first one I read did seem to have some connection with previous ones.

--
chuk

Charles Frederick Goodin

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Feb 2, 2001, 2:48:23 PM2/2/01
to
In article <95eq3k$8k2$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, <ale...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>In article <1eo7fe7.6hxw7uhhr700N%carol...@bigwig.net>,
> ca...@wrhpv.com wrote:
>> <ale...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Generally speaking, I can see about three reasons to borrow books
>> > at libraries; you're young and poor (and will make it up to the
>author
>> > by buying their works when you're in a position to do so); the book
>is
>> > out of print; you want to check an author out.
>>
>> What about being not-so-young and poor? Not everyone reaches a point
>in
>> their life where they can afford to buy all the books they want to
>read
>> - are they morally wrong somehow for continuing to use a library?

>I'd say so - at least as reading for pleasure goes. Books, like
>anything else, aren't free - they represent effort on the part
>of the author, the publisher, the editor and countless other people
>who expect to eat too.

So, poor people just shouldn't read? I almost never (like, two or three
times a year) buy books, but I probably read at least two or three a week
(not counting comics, children's books, or young adult stuff). All from
the library. No way could I afford to buy nearly that many books.

> I can't and won't condemn people who borrow
>a lot of pleasure reading at the library - we pay taxes for the
>damn things to sit there, after all - but wouldn't personally be
>comfortable with printing out the list of "interesting reads from
>rasfw" and go down to the library for a borrowing spree.

I don't usually actually print out a list, as I also don't have money for
paper and toner, but I do remember books I've read about on rasfw and get
them at the library. I just ordered Brenda Clough's book from
interlibrary loans because my local branch doesn't seem to carry her
stuff.

>
>So have I. But even when I was a lot poorer than I am today, I
>did try not to abuse the priviledge of being able to read any
>book I liked for free. I've never had a higher borrow/buy ratio
>than one, and these days I will only borrow things I can't find
>becuase they're out of print.

How do you "abuse the privilege" of library books? Maybe by signing books
out and then never returning them (I work in a library; it's my job to
deal with people who actually do this), but if you follow the library
policies, there shouldn't be some kind of moral limit determining how much
you can read, or relating your reading to your income.

> >> >And I'm not
really
>> > sure I'm entitled in the third case anyway - it's not like I can
>> > demand to watch a Lucas movie for free to check out if I like his
>> > style, is it?
>>
>> They don't put films on television where you live ?
>
>It's a question of availability. You can't chose when national
>TV will put on your favorite film for your viewing pleasure, can
>you?

You can't always choose when books will be available at the library,
either. Maybe that's why you (usually) don't have to pay. You also can't
lend them to a friend (although you can tell a friend about it and make
him go get the book from there).

> >Look, I don't think it's wrong for
anyone to use the library.
I >just happen to think that you ought to do so with some consideration,
>if for no other reason then at least to encourage people whose
>wrintings you like to write more. And I thought that the proposed
>use of library to knowingly deprive an author I'd like to read
>but can't really bring myself to pay the income from my reading
>his or her works was downright immoral.

Okay, purposely saying, "I hate you and don't want you to have any money
so I'm reading your book from the library instead!" would be pretty bad.
And if you had tons of money, there'd be lots worse ways to spend it than
on books by your favourite authours. But I don't think there's any need
to get all high and mighty about it.

>Anyway,
this is now way off-topic. Sorry for bringing it up in the >first place.

Oh. Okay then.

--
chuk

J.B. Moreno

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Feb 2, 2001, 3:27:38 PM2/2/01
to
Richard A. Knaak <rkn...@centurytel.net> wrote:

> And glad I am to hear they're back in print, Lawrence. The Misenchanted
> Sword is still one of my favorites of yours. Did I miss earlier; are they
> publishing the Lord of Dus, too?
>
> > From: Lawrence Watt-Evans <lawr...@clark.net>
> > Organization: Verio
> > Reply-To: lawr...@clark.net
> > Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
> > Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 02:23:49 -0500
> > Subject: Re: Author usenet presence: affecting buying?

Richard, if you tell OE to place the insertion point after quoted text,
it won't include all of these unnecessary headers (and would have
deleted his sig).

Edit->Preferences->Compose->Place insertion point after quoted text.

--
JBM
"Moebius strippers only show you their back side." -- Unknown

Jo Walton

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Feb 2, 2001, 3:30:08 PM2/2/01
to
In article <B6A05746.7769%rkn...@centurytel.net>

rkn...@centurytel.net "Richard A. Knaak" writes:

> I very much believe in libraries and if someone tells me that they'll check
> out my books there, I'm fine. Hey, at the very worst it'll mean that the
> library has them and, better yet, that there are still people who read out
> there. :>

I was absolutely overjoyed when I heard that there was a long waiting
list for _The King's Peace_ in Santa Cruz public library. I was even
more overjoyed when because I was told this by the only person I know
from there.

It's not as if people who read books from libraries never buy them
later.

(Oh, and the standard quoting method on usenet is to quote a little, as
required, and _above_ where you're responding, so people can go down for
new text. Thanks.)

--
Jo J...@bluejo.demon.co.uk
I kissed a kif at Kefk Take the rasfw pledge
*THE KING'S PEACE* out now! From Tor Books and good bookshops everywhere.
More info, Tir Tanagiri Map & Poetry etc at http://www.bluejo.demon.co.uk

Brenda

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Feb 2, 2001, 3:49:09 PM2/2/01
to

Eimear Ni Mhealoid wrote:

> Chad R. Orzel <orz...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:3a797036...@news.earthlink.net...
>
> > As for the remainder, I passed over _How Like a God_ several times
> > before Brenda Clough began posting here, and now that I'd kind of like
> > to check it out, the damn thing's vanished from the shelves (though
> > the sequel is readily available...).
>
> Well, Brenda's posts led me to her website, and chapter extracts; I decided
> I might pick it up sometime, since I was sure I'd seen one copy in Forbidden
> Planet. The day some pirate posted here that he'd illegally scanned it and
> posted it on a binaries newsgroup, I hotfooted it over to FP and bought it.
> I wasn't sorry.

Wow, Eimear! You are a prince among readers!

Brenda

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Feb 2, 2001, 3:52:37 PM2/2/01
to

Charles Frederick Goodin wrote:

> Okay, purposely saying, "I hate you and don't want you to have any money
> so I'm reading your book from the library instead!" would be pretty bad.

This has actually happened, I believe to Elizabeth Moon. She lives in Texas,
so I have no difficulty believing it.

Brenda

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Feb 2, 2001, 3:57:31 PM2/2/01
to

Richard A. Knaak wrote:

> I very much believe in libraries and if someone tells me that they'll check
> out my books there, I'm fine. Hey, at the very worst it'll mean that the
> library has them and, better yet, that there are still people who read out
> there. :>

There is also the point that in this day of book-shaped wallpaper, the book you
want to read may not be available in the bookstore by the time you come round
to buying it. It may be totally unavailable except at the library, which went
and purchased a copy in 1989. Libraries function as a sort of middle-term
literary memory. When the poor author's magazine stories have all gone to line
bird cages, and all her books have been remaindered and pulped into recycled
toilet paper, she can still find a volume or two in the library.

Brenda

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Feb 2, 2001, 3:58:51 PM2/2/01
to

Brian B. Rodenborn wrote:

> I've been using the public library heavily the past year, ever since I
> discovered that they have a nifty web interface to the catalog.
>
> In that time, a number of the books I've wanted weren't in their system,
> so I put in requests. Generally, if the title is available, the library
> will purchase it. The fewest copies they've purchased of any requested
> title has been two copies, the largest 15.

Authors adore it when their books are requested in libraries. I have often
mulled over some Nefarious Plot to exploit this marketing loophole, but it won't
quite jell.

Brian B. Rodenborn

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Feb 2, 2001, 3:55:09 PM2/2/01
to
In article <981145...@bluejo.demon.co.uk>,
Jo Walton <J...@bluejo.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>I was absolutely overjoyed when I heard that there was a long waiting
>list for _The King's Peace_ in Santa Cruz public library. I was even
>more overjoyed when because I was told this by the only person I know
>from there.

The St. Louis county library is processing eight copies, and has
"11 holds on First Copy Returned".

James Nicoll

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Feb 2, 2001, 3:57:10 PM2/2/01
to
In article <3A7B1E14...@erols.com>, Brenda <clo...@erols.com> wrote:
>
>
>Charles Frederick Goodin wrote:
>
>> Okay, purposely saying, "I hate you and don't want you to have any money
>> so I'm reading your book from the library instead!" would be pretty bad.
>
>This has actually happened, I believe to Elizabeth Moon. She lives in Texas,
>so I have no difficulty believing it.
>
Expand? I see the beginning and the conclusion but the connection
eludes me.


Brian B. Rodenborn

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Feb 2, 2001, 4:07:19 PM2/2/01