Attribution, at last
Chris Kuan
1>
As a comment on our long-running examinations of English language
variations, Richard Murnane offers a much-quoted insight from one James
Nicholl, who wrote: "The problem with defending the purity of the English
language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't
just borrow words; on occasion English has pursued other languages down
alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new
vocabulary."
--
Chris
Concatenate for e-mail: mr gazpacho @ hotmail . com
Anthony Nance
> <http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/column-8/column-8-20090707-dbrc.html?page=-
> 1>
>
> As a comment on our long-running examinations of English language
> variations, Richard Murnane offers a much-quoted insight from one James
> Nicholl, who wrote: "The problem with defending the purity of the English
> language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't
> just borrow words; on occasion English has pursued other languages down
> alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new
> vocabulary."
99% success!! The other 1%? Nicoll (no "h").
- Tony
Bill Snyder
<lo...@sig.please.because.this.is.invalid> wrote:
><http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/column-8/column-8-20090707-dbrc.html?page=-
>1>
>
>As a comment on our long-running examinations of English language
>variations, Richard Murnane offers a much-quoted insight from one James
>Nicholl, who wrote: "The problem with defending the purity of the English
>language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't
>just borrow words; on occasion English has pursued other languages down
>alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new
>vocabulary."
Now if only they'd learn to spell his name . . .
--
Bill Snyder [This space unintentionally left blank]
James Nicoll
James T. Kirk.
--
http://www.livejournal.com/users/james_nicoll
http://www.cafepress.com/jdnicoll (For all your "The problem with
defending the English language [...]" T-shirt, cup and tote-bag needs)
Greg Goss
><http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/column-8/column-8-20090707-dbrc.html?page=-
>1>
>
>As a comment on our long-running examinations of English language
>variations, Richard Murnane offers a much-quoted insight from one James
>Nicholl, who wrote: "The problem with defending the purity of the English
>language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't
>just borrow words; on occasion English has pursued other languages down
>alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new
>vocabulary."
On one of my other newsgroups, a Dutch guy said that English has this
desperate need for vocabulary because it doesn't inflect enough. He
says that inflecting makes words more flexible, so you don't need
quite so many of them.
--
Tomorrow is today already.
Greg Goss, 1989-01-27
mimus
Speaking as someone who struggles through Russian/Cyrillic occasionally,
I'll take prepositions over inflection any time.
--
Vse govoryat: Kreml', Kreml'. Oto vsekh Ya sloishal pro nego,
a sam ni razu ne videl. Skolko raz uzhe (toisyachu raz),
napivshis' ili s pokhmelyugi, prokhodil s severa na yug,
s zapada na vostok, iz kontsa v konets, naskvoz' i kak popalo--
i ni razu ne videl Kremlya.
< _Moskva-Petushki_
mimus
Reminds me of the old US Army saying about the Old West:
"Do you know what 'glory' is out here? It's being shot in the back by an
Indian from behind a rock and having your name spelled wrong in the
Eastern newspapers."
--
That is not a good plan. It should not be carried out.
< The Crow scout White Swan to Custer, the day before
Wayne Throop
: That is not a good plan. It should not be carried out.
Should be "Diz iz not a goodt plan. Ve vould lose our hats."
"Ve haff missed hyu! Please, please be *real*!" --- Ognian
Wayne Throop thr...@sheol.org http://sheol.org/throopw
mimus
> mimus <tinmi...@hotmail.com>
>
>> That is not a good plan. It should not be carried out.
>>
>> < The Crow scout White Swan to Custer, the day before
>
> Should be "Diz iz not a goodt plan. Ve vould lose our hats."
It is and was a translation from Crow, anyway.
Probably more literally something like "Damn! not _me_."
I don't remember, and couldn't find just now, if he stayed for the Valley
and Hill fights or not (most of the Indian scouts ran away when the Valley
fight started, very wisely).
--
Fall off and stay awhile.
< Old Western greetin'
Dorothy J Heydt
Nah, we're just scavengers.
(And he's wrong.)
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at hotmail dot com
Should you wish to email me, you'd better use the hotmail edress.
Kithrup is getting too damn much spam, even with the sysop's filters.
Wayne Throop
:: Should be "Diz iz not a goodt plan. Ve vould lose our hats."
: mimus <tinmi...@hotmail.com>
: It is and was a translation from Crow, anyway.
I realize that. Neverthess, it's what should have been said.
"Eny plan vere hyu lose hyu hat is a *bad* *plan*!"
--- J.Random Jaegermonster
"Now who can argue with that? I think we're all indebted to Gabby
Johnson for clearly stating what needed to be said. I'm particularly
glad that these lovely children were here today to hear that speech.
Not only was it authentic frontier gibberish, it expressed a courage
little seen in this day and age."
--- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ke5Mr5eCF2U
mimus
> mimus <tinmi...@hotmail.com>
>
>> Wayne Throop wrote:
>>
>>> mimus <tinmi...@hotmail.com>
>>>
>>>> That is not a good plan. It should not be carried out.
>>>
>>> Should be "Diz iz not a goodt plan. Ve vould lose our hats."
>>
>> It is and was a translation from Crow, anyway.
>
> I realize that. Neverthess, it's what should have been said.
>
> "Eny plan vere hyu lose hyu hat is a *bad* *plan*!"
> --- J.Random Jaegermonster
>
> "Now who can argue with that? I think we're all indebted to Gabby
> Johnson for clearly stating what needed to be said. I'm
> particularly glad that these lovely children were here today to
> hear that speech. Not only was it authentic frontier gibberish, it
> expressed a courage little seen in this day and age."
Without even looking up the vile You-Tube clip (I hate Flash), I recognize
that last one, from one-a the two greatest Westerns ever (the other is
_The Good, the Bad and the Ugly_) . . . .
--
Excuse me while I whip this out.
< _Blazing Saddles_
David Goldfarb
>::: That is not a good plan. It should not be carried out.
>
>:: Should be "Diz iz not a goodt plan. Ve vould lose our hats."
>
>: mimus <tinmi...@hotmail.com>
>: It is and was a translation from Crow, anyway.
>
>I realize that. Neverthess, it's what should have been said.
>
> "Eny plan vere hyu lose hyu hat is a *bad* *plan*!"
> --- J.Random Jaegermonster
Technically, no one Jaegermonster actually said that. It was part
of a dialog:
Minsk: Dis iz turnink into vun of *dose* plans...Hyu know, de kind
vere ve keel everybody dot notices dot ve's killin' people?
Gorb: It is?
Minsk: Uh huh. And how do dose alvays end?
Gorb: De dirigible iz in flames, everyboddyz dead an' I've lost my hat.
Minsk: Dot's right. Und any plan vere you lose you hat iz?
Gorb: A bad plan?
Minsk: Right again!
It's not completely unreasonable to edit that into the one quote,
but note that the Jaegermonster *did* have a name.
--
David Goldfarb | "All love is unrequited."
gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu |
gold...@csua.berkeley.edu | -- Babylon 5, "Rising Star"
Dorothy J Heydt
mimus <tinmi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>On Thu, 09 Jul 2009 10:53:59 -0600, Greg Goss wrote:
>> Chris Kuan <lo...@sig.please.because.this.is.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> On one of my other newsgroups, a Dutch guy said that English has this
>> desperate need for vocabulary because it doesn't inflect enough. He
>> says that inflecting makes words more flexible, so you don't need quite
>> so many of them.
>
>Speaking as someone who struggles through Russian/Cyrillic occasionally,
>I'll take prepositions over inflection any time.
Me too.
>
>Vse govoryat: Kreml', Kreml'. Oto vsekh Ya sloishal pro nego,
>a sam ni razu ne videl. Skolko raz uzhe (toisyachu raz),
>napivshis' ili s pokhmelyugi, prokhodil s severa na yug,
>s zapada na vostok, iz kontsa v konets, naskvoz' i kak popalo--
>i ni razu ne videl Kremlya.
Aw, come on. Now translate it?
Wayne Throop
: Without even looking up the vile You-Tube clip (I hate Flash), I recognize
: that last one, from one-a the two greatest Westerns ever (the other is
: _The Good, the Bad and the Ugly_) . . . .
tGtBatU is indeed way up there, but I personally would rate
The Outlaw Josey Wales somewhat above it.
"We thought about it a long time. "Endeavor to persevere."
And when we had thought about it enough,
we declared war on the Union."
--- Lone Watie (Chief Dan George), "The Outlaw Josey Wales"
"Too bad we don't have time to bury those fellas proper like."
"To hell with those fellas. Buzzards got to eat, same as worms."
--- Jamie and Josie, "The Loutlaw Josey Wales"
( or, to be fair... )
"If you're going to shoot, shoot. Don't talk."
--- Tuco (who seems to have read the Evil Overlord List,
and maybe is a bit vague on some of the
finer points, but has a grasp of the basics)
( and many others ) ( And of course tOJW loses points for Sondra Locke,
but no movie's perfect I suppose. )
mimus
> In article <_9adnU2vGvwqtcvX...@giganews.com>,
> mimus <tinmi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 09 Jul 2009 10:53:59 -0600, Greg Goss wrote:
>>
>>> Chris Kuan <lo...@sig.please.because.this.is.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>> On one of my other newsgroups, a Dutch guy said that English has this
>>> desperate need for vocabulary because it doesn't inflect enough. He
>>> says that inflecting makes words more flexible, so you don't need quite
>>> so many of them.
>>
>> Speaking as someone who struggles through Russian/Cyrillic
>> occasionally, I'll take prepositions over inflection any time.
>
> Me too.
They're the same for all words. Nice.
>> Vse govoryat: Kreml', Kreml'. Oto vsekh Ya sloishal pro nego, a sam ni
>> razu ne videl. Skolko raz uzhe (toisyachu raz), napivshis' ili s
>> pokhmelyugi, prokhodil s severa na yug, s zapada na vostok, iz kontsa v
>> konets, naskvoz' i kak popalo-- i ni razu ne videl Kremlya.
>>
>> < _Moskva-Petushki_
>
> Aw, come on. Now translate it?
Everyone said: The Kremlin, the Kremlin. From everyone I heard about it,
but myself never once saw it. Many times over (a thousand times),
drunk or with a hangover, I traveled Moscow from North to South,
from West to East, from end to end, throughout and at random--
and not once did I see the Kremlin.
< _Moscow-Petushki_
May be a slight mistranslation, but it's close.
And just the sort of thing a Brezhnev-era "Soviet Realist" critic would
want to read . . . .
Hell, it'd probably get 'im in Dutch today, under the _Putinshchina_ . . . .
--
Ofitseroi vse do odnogo merzavtsoi.
< _Odin Den' Ivana Denisovicha_
Lord Vetinari
news:Xns9C43E9155A47Emr...@203.26.24.228...
> <http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/column-8/column-8-20090707-dbrc.html?page=-
> 1>
>
> As a comment on our long-running examinations of English language
> variations, Richard Murnane offers a much-quoted insight from one James
> Nicholl, who wrote: "The problem with defending the purity of the English
> language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't
> just borrow words; on occasion English has pursued other languages down
> alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new
> vocabulary."
Heh...I've had that in my quotes file since he first posted it.
mimus
Oops. "Socialist Realist".
--
Every Soviet citizen has the right to posthumous rehabilitation.
< Alleged article of Soviet Constitution under Stalin
Lord Vetinari
news:ybCdndkZ7etqocvX...@giganews.com...
I have the audio from that on my iPod....along with many other weird, wacky,
and hilarious random samplings. Great fun to have the car stereo cranked to
11, and have those play at random between songs.
Wayne Throop
:: --- J.Random Jaegermonster
: gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb)
: Technically, no one Jaegermonster actually said that.
: It was part of a dialog
True, but it was consolidated into a saying by a single speaker
(speaking "into the camera" so to type) on the GG main page as part of
the surrounding frame for quite a while. Or was that one of the bonus
wallpapers? Or maybe something on the merchandise page? ANYhow, that's
the J.Random Jaeger I had in mind, not the exchange in the story itself.
Hm. Can't locate that image; my google-fu is weak today.
But my memory of it is fairly strong (though I think I'm exagerating
the jaeger accent a bit in my rendition of the saying). Blue-ish
background, and I think a blue-ish uniform on the jaeger. Hm.
Aha! Well, the one they have now for t-shirts and embroidered pillows
and such has a red uniform, and I don't remember the hat being on fire,
but the pose and the jaeger in question is very like the one my memory
claims was on the main page for a while.
http://www.cafepress.com/girlgenius.150157790
"Jagermonster Philosophy Throw Pillow"
*Alvays* *remember* -- *any* plan
vere you lose you *hat* iz a BAD PLAN
"So ven hyu bury him, make sure he gots a hat."
--- Maxim
David DeLaney
>mimus <tinmi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>On Thu, 09 Jul 2009 10:53:59 -0600, Greg Goss wrote:
>>> On one of my other newsgroups, a Dutch guy said that English has this
>>> desperate need for vocabulary because it doesn't inflect enough. He
>>> says that inflecting makes words more flexible, so you don't need quite
>>> so many of them.
>>
>>Speaking as someone who struggles through Russian/Cyrillic occasionally,
>>I'll take prepositions over inflection any time.
>
>Me too.
Ditto. I'd rather have my language made out of Legos and Lincoln Logs than
origami, any day.
Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from d...@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Dorothy J Heydt
Yes, but it's propagated all over the place, frequently
attributed to Booker T. Washington. Credit where it's due
(even if misspelled).
Dorothy J Heydt
Hm. Is (or was) the Kremlin actually a building? Or just a
concept?
Now I'm remembering when a Soviet probe got the first look at
the far side of the moon, and named its one mare the Mare
Moscoviensis. Somebody in the IAU protested that maria were
usually named after physical features or states of mind.
Someone else retorted that Moscow is definitely a state of
mind.
Jo'Asia
> Hm. Is (or was) the Kremlin actually a building? Or just a
> concept?
Not a single building but a whole complex. Rather big. See
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_Kremlin
Jo'Asia
--
__.-=-. -< Joanna Slupek >----------------------< http://esensja.pl/ >-
--<()> -< joasia @ hell . pl >------< http://bujold.fantastyka.net/ >-
.__.'| -< Shades of gray just isn't proper speculative fiction. It's
real world with the serial numbers filed off {Tina Hall} >-
Dorothy J Heydt
David DeLaney <d...@vic.com> wrote:
>Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>>mimus <tinmi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>On Thu, 09 Jul 2009 10:53:59 -0600, Greg Goss wrote:
>>>> On one of my other newsgroups, a Dutch guy said that English has this
>>>> desperate need for vocabulary because it doesn't inflect enough. He
>>>> says that inflecting makes words more flexible, so you don't need quite
>>>> so many of them.
>>>
>>>Speaking as someone who struggles through Russian/Cyrillic occasionally,
>>>I'll take prepositions over inflection any time.
>>
>>Me too.
>
>Ditto. I'd rather have my language made out of Legos and Lincoln Logs than
>origami, any day.
But, of course, that's because we grew up with English as our
first language. (At least I did and I assume you did.)
Languages may be compared to computer systems, in that the
first one you learn, you imprint on like a baby duck and
judge all subsequent examples by comparing them to the first.
English does have the one advantage that even if you goof up
the grammar rather spectactularly, your meaning can still be
made out with a bit of pondering.
Some years ago Jo Walton said in raseff:
>English is very easy to learn how to speak badly -- and be understood,
>because it's also a very forgiving language. So one would hope this
>makes it easier to learn well because you can try and get somewhere and
>be corrected and learn better, you don't have to get it perfect to
>achieve communication.
>
>In some languages, if you don't say it right, you haven't said anything,
>you might as well just have burped as far as communication goes. In
>English, you can totally mangle everything, word order,
>pronunciation, grammar, and still have some communication. You can say
>"Raining she will," and pronounce "she" as "jee" and "will" as "vill"
>and "raining" as "laining" and people will by Jove understand what you
>mean and agree, "Yes, it does look like rain."
Wayne Throop
: But, of course, that's because we grew up with English as our
: first language. (At least I did and I assume you did.)
: Languages may be compared to computer systems, in that the
: first one you learn, you imprint on like a baby duck and
: judge all subsequent examples by comparing them to the first.
Hm. The first computer system I learned (if we ignore that episode of
the programmable calculator in high school) would be an IBM 370 mainframe,
using punched cards. And I definitely don't compare things to it. Well,
sometimes I'll muse about the fact that I have more online storage here
on my desk than existed in the whole university ...
If we consider computer *languages*, that'd be FORTRAN, and again,
it doesn't really seem to be a paradigm of excellence by any long
stretch of the imagination.
On the other hand... I think both Dijkstra and Wirth had
scathing things to say about needing to *un* learn bad habits
gotten by exposure to ill-designed languages like BASIC or COBOL.
"The use of COBOL cripples the mind; its teaching should,
therefore, be regarded as a criminal offense."
--- Edsger Dijkstra
"Go To statement considered harmful."
--- Niklaus Wirth (often attributed to Dijkstra,
who wrote the article of that title)
Lord Vetinari
news:12471...@sheol.org...
> :: "Eny plan vere hyu lose hyu hat is a *bad* *plan*!"
> :: --- J.Random Jaegermonster
>
> : gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb)
> : Technically, no one Jaegermonster actually said that.
> : It was part of a dialog
>
> True, but it was consolidated into a saying by a single speaker
> (speaking "into the camera" so to type) on the GG main page as part of
> the surrounding frame for quite a while. Or was that one of the bonus
> wallpapers? Or maybe something on the merchandise page? ANYhow, that's
> the J.Random Jaeger I had in mind, not the exchange in the story itself.
>
> Hm. Can't locate that image; my google-fu is weak today.
> But my memory of it is fairly strong (though I think I'm exagerating
> the jaeger accent a bit in my rendition of the saying). Blue-ish
> background, and I think a blue-ish uniform on the jaeger. Hm.
Purple uniforms. You got the background right, anyway!
Lord Vetinari
news:KMJ7H...@kithrup.com...
> In article <Tqr5m.6340$vO4....@flpi145.ffdc.sbc.com>,
> Lord Vetinari <veti...@ameritech.net> wrote:
>>"Chris Kuan" <lo...@sig.please.because.this.is.invalid> wrote in message
>>news:Xns9C43E9155A47Emr...@203.26.24.228...
>>> <http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/column-8/column-8-20090707-dbrc.html?page=-
>>> 1>
>>>
>>> As a comment on our long-running examinations of English language
>>> variations, Richard Murnane offers a much-quoted insight from one James
>>> Nicholl, who wrote: "The problem with defending the purity of the
>>> English
>>> language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't
>>> just borrow words; on occasion English has pursued other languages down
>>> alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new
>>> vocabulary."
>>
>>Heh...I've had that in my quotes file since he first posted it.
>
> Yes, but it's propagated all over the place, frequently
> attributed to Booker T. Washington. Credit where it's due
> (even if misspelled).
*sigh* I was mistaken. I didn't pick it up until a few years later. I
didn't get on the "Interweb", until 1992-3. Admittedly, usenet was one of
my first stops, since it's so similar in many ways to notesfiles on PLATO.
Anyway, Mr. Washington wasn't a hockey puck.
Dorothy J Heydt
Jo'Asia <joa...@hel.pl> wrote:
>Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>
>> Hm. Is (or was) the Kremlin actually a building? Or just a
>> concept?
>
>Not a single building but a whole complex. Rather big. See
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_Kremlin
I see. So the fellow quoted wouldn't have seen the Kremlin,
not because it wasn't there, but because they wouldn't let
him in to get a look?
Mike Ash
djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
> But, of course, that's because we grew up with English as our
> first language. (At least I did and I assume you did.)
> Languages may be compared to computer systems, in that the
> first one you learn, you imprint on like a baby duck and
> judge all subsequent examples by comparing them to the first.
Certainly I don't go around comparing new computer systems to BASIC or
to the Commodore 64 or the Apple II. I don't even go around comparing
them to Pascal or the old Mac. Most people seem perfectly capable of
switching computer systems and, after an initial period of adjustment,
use the new system for what it is, not as a substitute for their old one.
--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon
mimus
Probably safest just to observe that at least literally-speaking the
negative feat in question is impossible . . . .
--
Poetemu, kogda nachnetsya miting, otoidu v storonku.
< _Chemodan_
Greg Goss
>>Everyone said: The Kremlin, the Kremlin. From everyone I heard about it,
>>but myself never once saw it. Many times over (a thousand times),
>>drunk or with a hangover, I traveled Moscow from North to South,
>>from West to East, from end to end, throughout and at random--
>>and not once did I see the Kremlin.
One side of Red Square in Moscow. Some night photos on
http://www.russiablog.org/2007/01/post_2.php#more
Satellite: http://tinyurl.com/m6t8gw
--
Tomorrow is today already.
Greg Goss, 1989-01-27
David Goldfarb
Although I believe that the first person to actually use the quote
in a .signature file was me.
--
David Goldfarb |"The number of times I have been declared
gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu |dead is statistically insignificant,
gold...@csua.berkeley.edu |although admittedly non-zero." -- James Nicoll
Nigel
> In article <9zhkjbcrfvgr$....@dustpuppy.sloth.hell.pl>,
>
> Jo'Asia <joa...@hel.pl> wrote:
> >Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>
> >> Hm. Is (or was) the Kremlin actually a building? Or just a
> >> concept?
>
> >Not a single building but a whole complex. Rather big. See
> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_Kremlin
>
> I see. So the fellow quoted wouldn't have seen the Kremlin,
> not because it wasn't there, but because they wouldn't let
> him in to get a look?
>
No, even in the Soviet era it was something of a tourist area. There
were some buildings that were closed (much like the White House or the
Houses of Parliament), but others were (and probably still are) open
as museums. Lenin's tomb was there [1] and that was a definite must-
see for any communist visitor to Moscow.
Cheers,
Nigel.
[1] and for all I know may still be
P. Taine
>In article <slrnh5ckk...@gatekeeper.vic.com>,
>David DeLaney <d...@vic.com> wrote:
>>Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>>>mimus <tinmi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>On Thu, 09 Jul 2009 10:53:59 -0600, Greg Goss wrote:
>>>>> On one of my other newsgroups, a Dutch guy said that English has this
>>>>> desperate need for vocabulary because it doesn't inflect enough. He
>>>>> says that inflecting makes words more flexible, so you don't need quite
>>>>> so many of them.
>>>>
>>>>Speaking as someone who struggles through Russian/Cyrillic occasionally,
>>>>I'll take prepositions over inflection any time.
>>>
>>>Me too.
>>
>>Ditto. I'd rather have my language made out of Legos and Lincoln Logs than
>>origami, any day.
>
>But, of course, that's because we grew up with English as our
>first language. (At least I did and I assume you did.)
>Languages may be compared to computer systems, in that the
>first one you learn, you imprint on like a baby duck and
>judge all subsequent examples by comparing them to the first.
So THAT'S my problem. Started on an IBM 650 with no assembler, writing programs
as 10 digit decimal numbers!
So how did I wind up in LISP?
>
>English does have the one advantage that even if you goof up
>the grammar rather spectactularly, your meaning can still be
>made out with a bit of pondering.
A French friend (with wonderful English) would ask, rhetorically, "What is the
most widely spoken language in the world?", and then answer "Bad English."
P. Taine
Seems to me that Lenin's tomb is built against the wall of the Kremlin, in Red
Square, and as such isn't in it. Just as St. Basil's cathedral is outside the
walls.
Note, BTW, that "Red Square" isn't named for the Communists' favorite color, but
predates that, with "red" being synonymous with "beautiful".
P. Taine
Greg Goss
>In article <9zhkjbcrfvgr$.d...@dustpuppy.sloth.hell.pl>,
>Jo'Asia <joa...@hel.pl> wrote:
>>Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>
>>> Hm. Is (or was) the Kremlin actually a building? Or just a
>>> concept?
>>
>>Not a single building but a whole complex. Rather big. See
>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_Kremlin
>
>I see. So the fellow quoted wouldn't have seen the Kremlin,
>not because it wasn't there, but because they wouldn't let
>him in to get a look?
I think that he's just commenting that the coincidences of his travel
routes meant that he just happened to miss seeing the famous landmark.
Kinda like the Eiffel Tower shots that the central character never saw
in French Kiss.
mimus
> djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
>
>> In article <9zhkjbcrfvgr$.d...@dustpuppy.sloth.hell.pl>,
>> Jo'Asia <joa...@hel.pl> wrote:
>>
>>> Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hm. Is (or was) the Kremlin actually a building? Or just a
>>>> concept?
>>>
>>> Not a single building but a whole complex. Rather big. See
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_Kremlin
>>
>> I see. So the fellow quoted wouldn't have seen the Kremlin,
>> not because it wasn't there, but because they wouldn't let
>> him in to get a look?
>
> I think that he's just commenting that the coincidences of his travel
> routes meant that he just happened to miss seeing the famous landmark.
Um . . . .
The point here seems to be faring about as well here as Erofeev's Kremlin . . . .
--
Toi sidish', a na tebya sverkhu--lyustra.
< _Moskva-Petushki_
William December Starr
mimus <tinmi...@hotmail.com> said:
> Greg Goss wrote:
>> djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
>>
>>> I see. So the fellow quoted wouldn't have seen the Kremlin, not
>>> because it wasn't there, but because they wouldn't let him in to
>>> get a look?
>>
>> I think that he's just commenting that the coincidences of his travel
>> routes meant that he just happened to miss seeing the famous landmark.
>
> Um . . . .
>
> The point here seems to be faring about as well here as Erofeev's
> Kremlin . . . .
And that point is?
-- wds
mimus
I would associate it rather generally with Kafka's _The Castle_, myself.
(Although you could at least _see_ the Castle . . . .)
--
The receiver gave out a buzz of a kind that K. had never before heard
on a telephone. It was like the hum of countless children's voices--
but yet not a hum, the echo rather of voices singing at an infinite
distance . . . .
_The Castle_
William December Starr
mimus <tinmi...@hotmail.com> said:
> William December Starr wrote:
>> mimus <tinmi...@hotmail.com> said:
>>> Greg Goss wrote:
>>>> djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I see. So the fellow quoted wouldn't have seen the Kremlin, not
>>>>> because it wasn't there, but because they wouldn't let him in to
>>>>> get a look?
>>>>
>>>> I think that he's just commenting that the coincidences of his travel
>>>> routes meant that he just happened to miss seeing the famous landmark.
>>>
>>> Um . . . .
>>> The point here seems to be faring about as well here as Erofeev's
>>> Kremlin . . . .
>>
>> And that point is?
>
> I would associate it rather generally with Kafka's _The Castle_, myself.
Could you be a tad less elusive please?
-- wds
mimus
"It is like a buffalo passing through a window. Its head, horns and
hooves have already passed through. Why is it that its tail cannot?"
--
So goes this criss-cross multitudinous moving as far as thought can reach:
and beyond that the moving goes. All moves. All moves uncomprehendingly,
and to the sound of laughter. For all moves in consonance with a higher
power that understands the meaning of the movement. And each moves the
pieces before him in consonance with his ability. So the game is endless
and ruthless: and there is merriment overhead, but it is very far away.
< _Jurgen_
mimus
> <http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/column-8/column-8-20090707-dbrc.html?page=-
> 1>
>
> As a comment on our long-running examinations of English language
> variations, Richard Murnane offers a much-quoted insight from one James
> Nicholl, who wrote: "The problem with defending the purity of the English
> language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't
> just borrow words; on occasion English has pursued other languages down
> alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new
> vocabulary."
Not to mention all the Roman and Greek grave-robbing.
--
Certaynly it is harde to playse euery man
by cause of dyuersite and chaunge of langage.
< William Caxton
William December Starr
mimus <tinmi...@hotmail.com> said:
>>>>> The point here seems to be faring about as well here as
>>>>> Erofeev's Kremlin . . . .
>>>>
>>>> And that point is?
>>>
>>> I would associate it rather generally with Kafka's _The Castle_, myself.
>>
>> Could you be a tad less elusive please?
>
> "It is like a buffalo passing through a window. Its head, horns
> and hooves have already passed through. Why is it that its tail
> cannot?"
Fuck you then.
-- wds
mimus
LOL
I really didn't think I was being "elusive" up to that point-- "allusive",
maybe . . . .
The crux of the matter, speeling it out, would be, in my opinion, with
regard to both the Kremlin of _Moscow-Petushki_ and the Castle of _The
Castle_, as well as of ultimate divinity in _Jurgen_ (as indicated in the
.sig of my previous post), a world, system or world-view featuring an
unbridgeable gulf between the ordinary person and whatever is the
relevant ultimate cosmic, social and/or political power.
(The "buffalo" thingie is of course probably the deadliest koan from Ch'an
or Zen Buddhism, found in _The Gateless Gate_ . . . .)
--
The hell with the Galactic Overlords
and their tastes in literature.
< _The Day of the Burning_
William December Starr
mimus <tinmi...@hotmail.com> said:
> I really didn't think I was being "elusive" up to that point--
> "allusive", maybe . . . .
Pretty much same thing. People who can't or won't talk straight
generally need to be kicked. (I understand that a certain itinerant
Jewish rabbi of a couple thousand years ago had that problem, at
least according to alleged transcripts written sometime after his
death. No wonder he pissed off so many people.)
[ ... ]
> (The "buffalo" thingie is of course probably the deadliest koan
> from Ch'an or Zen Buddhism, found in _The Gateless Gate_ . . . .)
A deadly koan. Yeah, that really makes sense.
-- wds
Mike Schilling
>
>> (The "buffalo" thingie is of course probably the deadliest koan
>> from Ch'an or Zen Buddhism, found in _The Gateless Gate_ . . . .)
>
> A deadly koan. Yeah, that really makes sense.
>
It was Koan the Barbarian. But at the same time it was not Koan the
Barbarian. And even Koan Barbarian knows there's one roulade he
can't sing.
Arthur
mimus
> mimus wrote:
>
>> (The "buffalo" thingie is of course probably the deadliest koan
>> from Ch'an or Zen Buddhism, found in _The Gateless Gate_ . . . .)
>
> A deadly koan. Yeah, that really makes sense.
Don't be so literal. It's insulting to intelligences all around.
"When is an open window a brick wall?" indeed.
--
Thou canst at best but overstrain
A paradox, and thy own brain.
< _Hudibras_
Christopher Henrich
"Mike Schilling" <mscotts...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Are you sure it wasn't Genghis Koan?
--
Christopher J. Henrich
chen...@monmouth.com
http://www.mathinteract.com
"A bad analogy is like a leaky screwdriver." -- Boon
Mike Ash
<a1e2fd4b-73a9-4846...@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>,
Arthur <art...@yahoo.com> wrote:
If you have some ice cream, I will give it to you. If you have no ice
cream, I will take it from you.
It is an ice cream koan.
Wayne Throop
: If you have some ice cream, I will give it to you. If you have no ice
:
: It is an ice cream koan.
Waaaait a minute!
You promised you were going to make me one with everything!
Kurt Busiek
> : Mike Ash <mi...@mikeash.com>
> : If you have some ice cream, I will give it to you. If you have no ice
> : cream, I will take it from you.
> :
> : It is an ice cream koan.
>
> Waaaait a minute!
> You promised you were going to make me one with everything!
That's mustard, relish, chili, cheese, kraut and onions, coming right up...
kdb
--
Visit http://www.busiek.com -- for all your Busiek needs!
Mike Schilling
>> Mike Ash <mi...@mikeash.com>
>> If you have some ice cream, I will give it to you. If you have no
>> ice
>> cream, I will take it from you.
>>
>> It is an ice cream koan.
>
> Waaaait a minute!
> You promised you were going to make me one with everything!
>
"You're a chocolate malted".
Mike Schilling
> In article <h3dcsr$q2t$1...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> "Mike Schilling" <mscotts...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> William December Starr wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>> (The "buffalo" thingie is of course probably the deadliest koan
>>>> from Ch'an or Zen Buddhism, found in _The Gateless Gate_ . . . .)
>>>
>>> A deadly koan. Yeah, that really makes sense.
>>>
>>
>> It was Koan the Barbarian. But at the same time it was not Koan
>> the
>> Barbarian. And even Koan Barbarian knows there's one roulade he
>> can't sing.
>
> Are you sure it wasn't Genghis Koan?
Not even David Koan.
Louann Miller
FC5248.160...@news.eternal-september.org:
>> It was Koan the Barbarian. But at the same time it was not Koan the
>> Barbarian. And even Koan Barbarian knows there's one roulade he
>> can't sing.
>
> Are you sure it wasn't Genghis Koan?
Sir Arthur Koan Doyle?
Walter Bushell
wds...@panix.com (William December Starr) wrote:
> In article <aYednVtjgMfMHMTX...@giganews.com>,
> mimus <tinmi...@hotmail.com> said:
>
> > I really didn't think I was being "elusive" up to that point--
> > "allusive", maybe . . . .
>
> Pretty much same thing. People who can't or won't talk straight
> generally need to be kicked. (I understand that a certain itinerant
> Jewish rabbi of a couple thousand years ago had that problem, at
> least according to alleged transcripts written sometime after his
> death. No wonder he pissed off so many people.)
>
He was a carpenter's dream, flat as a board and easy to nail.
Walter Bushell
wrote:
The roshi throws mustard and pickle relish on you and screams, "Don't be
such a hot dog! You cannot become one with everything unless you are
already one with everything."
Amitabha bless us with an understanding of his word.
Walter Bushell
Christopher Henrich <chen...@monmouth.com> wrote:
> In article <h3dcsr$q2t$1...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> "Mike Schilling" <mscotts...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > William December Starr wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >> (The "buffalo" thingie is of course probably the deadliest koan
> > >> from Ch'an or Zen Buddhism, found in _The Gateless Gate_ . . . .)
> > >
> > > A deadly koan. Yeah, that really makes sense.
> > >
> >
> > It was Koan the Barbarian. But at the same time it was not Koan the
> > Barbarian. And even Koan Barbarian knows there's one roulade he
> > can't sing.
>
> Are you sure it wasn't Genghis Koan?
The famous rabbi?
Walter Bushell
"Mike Schilling" <mscotts...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Levitt Town, did Irving Koan,
A stately Cape Cod house decree,
Where Alph (the sacred Neuman) dwelt,
And Nick Fazoole and Olaf Svelt
And (even?) Sean MaGee.
There: fifty feet of crab-grass ground,
With picket-fence were girdled round;
A place for little Milt to play,
A port for Irving's Chevrolet.
Just one thing is not of all the very best:
You can't tell Irving's place from all the rest!
Walter Bushell
mimus <tinmi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 12 Jul 2009 14:40:58 -0400, William December Starr wrote:
>
> > mimus wrote:
> >
> >> (The "buffalo" thingie is of course probably the deadliest koan
> >> from Ch'an or Zen Buddhism, found in _The Gateless Gate_ . . . .)
> >
> > A deadly koan. Yeah, that really makes sense.
>
> Don't be so literal. It's insulting to intelligences all around.
>
> "When is an open window a brick wall?" indeed.
In a world with no boundaries, who needs Windows?
William December Starr
mimus <tinmi...@hotmail.com> said:
> William December Starr wrote:
>> mimus wrote:
>>
>>> (The "buffalo" thingie is of course probably the deadliest koan
>>> from Ch'an or Zen Buddhism, found in _The Gateless Gate_ . . . .)
>>
>> A deadly koan. Yeah, that really makes sense.
>
> Don't be so literal. It's insulting to intelligences all around.
Don't say stupid things. It's insulting to people who aren't.
-- wds
Alexey Romanov
> In article <9zhkjbcrfvgr$.d...@dustpuppy.sloth.hell.pl>,
> Jo'Asia <joa...@hel.pl> wrote:
>>Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>
>>> Hm. Is (or was) the Kremlin actually a building? Or just a
>>> concept?
>>
>>Not a single building but a whole complex. Rather big. See
>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_Kremlin
>
> I see. So the fellow quoted wouldn't have seen the Kremlin,
> not because it wasn't there, but because they wouldn't let
> him in to get a look?
>
> Dorothy J. Heydt
> Vallejo, California
> djheydt at hotmail dot com
> Should you wish to email me, you'd better use the hotmail edress.
> Kithrup is getting too damn much spam, even with the sysop's filters.
No, because he always was
>>>>drunk or with a hangover
--
Alexey Romanov
mimus
> On Thu, 9 Jul 2009 21:30:46 GMT, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>
>> In article <9zhkjbcrfvgr$.d...@dustpuppy.sloth.hell.pl>,
>> Jo'Asia <joa...@hel.pl> wrote:
>>
>>> Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hm. Is (or was) the Kremlin actually a building? Or just a
>>>> concept?
>>>
>>> Not a single building but a whole complex. Rather big. See
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_Kremlin
>>
>> I see. So the fellow quoted wouldn't have seen the Kremlin,
>> not because it wasn't there, but because they wouldn't let
>> him in to get a look?
>
> No, because he always was
>
>>>>> drunk or with a hangover
Every time he _deliberately_ tried to go to the Kremlin he ended up at
Kursk Rail Station . . . .
Alcoholic ageographia, I guess.
But that wouldn't explain the
>>>>> (a thousand times)
and
>>>>> throughout and at random
parts.
--
Everyone who wishes to emigrate to Israel please report with all
your belongings to the Northern Rail Station.
< Alleged radio announcement in Moscow