Best starting point for Brust's Taltos/Dragarea books?
BP
Also, I seem to recall (and just confirmed by Wiki) that the Phoenix
Guards series is in the same setting, but not the same series as teh
ones about Vlad Taltos and friends (right?) - so should the Guards
books be read before or after the Taltos books?
Or just go with publication order on the whole lot?
BP
William George Ferguson
I would recommend publication order for the Vlad books, and publication
order for the Paarfi books (Paarfi is the romantic historian recounting the
stories in the Dumas pastiches), but don't start the Paarfi books until
you've read at least to Phoenix in the Vlad books.
The Vlad books are non-linear, with inter-locked story threads jumping back
and forth in time, and the stories in different books sometimes overlap
each other because of this.
The Paarfi books are modeled on Dumas' Three Musketeers stories, with the
first, The Phoenix Guards, roughly equivalent to the first Dumas book, The
Three Musketeers. In them, the protagonist Khaavren is roughly equivalent
to D'Artagnon. They start over half a century before Vlad's time, and over
their course move up to just before, and entering into Vlad's time.
There is a standalone book, Brokedown Palace, also set in the world of
Dragaera. It has behind the scenes connections to the Vlad books, but
these are not explicitly stated in the books (a young child at the end of
Brokedown Palace becomes a pivotal character in the Vlad books, but I don't
remember the link ever being explicitly established in the books, just
implicitly).
--
I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.
(Bene Gesserit)
pedr...@snip.net
> What is the best starting point for reading Brust's Dragaera books?
> Also, I seem to recall (and just confirmed by Wiki) that the Phoenix
> ones about Vlad Taltos and friends (right?) - so should the Guards
> books be read before or after the Taltos books?
>
> Or just go with publication order on the whole lot?
>
> BP
In terms of internal chronology, the Guards take place long before
Taltos. Reading them first might change your take on the Taltos series
a tiny bit, in that a few characters will be familiar to you when you
encounter them (Dragaerans are very, very long-lived), which they
weren't to, say, me. And a couple of them were... surprising. Likewise
for some details of History. But the temporal remove is sufficient to
minimize direct, significant spoilage.
The other consideration is one of style: although they do gain
gravitas as the series progresses, the Taltos books are still much
lighter reading than the Guards. Not that those are Proustian,
exactly. They're pastiches/homages to Dumas, and, like his books, can
carry on a trifle longer than you'd prefer. Still fun, but if I'd
encountered them before I read Brust's other work, I'm not entirely
sure I'd have kept going. If you know the Musketeers novels, the joke
can wear a bit thin.
Keeping all that in mind, I'd say it's your call. No compelling reason
you *can't* start with either.
Brion K. Lienhart
> On Mon, 03 Mar 2008 16:56:26 -0600, BP <re...@newsgroup.please> wrote:
>
>> What is the best starting point for reading Brust's Dragaera books?
>> Also, I seem to recall (and just confirmed by Wiki) that the Phoenix
>> Guards series is in the same setting, but not the same series as teh
>> ones about Vlad Taltos and friends (right?) - so should the Guards
>> books be read before or after the Taltos books?
>>
>> Or just go with publication order on the whole lot?
>>
> The Paarfi books are modeled on Dumas' Three Musketeers stories, with the
> first, The Phoenix Guards, roughly equivalent to the first Dumas book, The
> Three Musketeers. In them, the protagonist Khaavren is roughly equivalent
> to D'Artagnon. They start over half a century before Vlad's time, and over
> their course move up to just before, and entering into Vlad's time.
ITYM half a millennium. :)
When he says "modeled on Dumas", that includes the ornate overwordy
style. Steven should post the section on the history of the Inn of The
Painted Sign & Bengoalurafurd Bridge on the web somewhere. I think it
shows the best of his style w/o any particular spoilers. If you can
stand that part, you'll probably love the book.
David Goldfarb
Brion K. Lienhart <bri...@lienhart.name> wrote:
>William George Ferguson wrote:
>> The Paarfi books are modeled on Dumas' Three Musketeers stories, with the
>> first, The Phoenix Guards, roughly equivalent to the first Dumas book, The
>> Three Musketeers. In them, the protagonist Khaavren is roughly equivalent
>> to D'Artagnon. They start over half a century before Vlad's time, and over
>> their course move up to just before, and entering into Vlad's time.
>
>ITYM half a millennium. :)
Actually, _The Phoenix Guards_ is just about a full thousand years
before Vlad, while _Five Hundred Years After_ is about five hundred
years before.
The comparison between Dumas and Paarfi goes thus:
_The Three Musketeers_ _The Phoenix Guards_
_Twenty Years After_ _Five Hundred Years After_
_Le Vicomte de Bragelonne_, _The Viscount of Adrilankha_
published in three volumes: published in three volumes:
_Ten Years Later_ _The Paths of the Dead_
_Louise de la Valliere_ _The Lord of Castle Black_
_The Man in the Iron Mask_ _Sethra Lavode_
--
David Goldfarb |Seen on the marquee of a disused porn
gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu |theatre in New York City:
gold...@csua.berkeley.edu | "What urge will save us now that sex won't?"
Konrad Gaertner
>
> Or just go with publication order on the whole lot?
Publication order for each series is fine, but I would recommend
reading other books in between. Many people don't like _Teckla_, and
I think much of that is the emotional whiplash from reading it
immediately after _Yendi_. In fact, I prefer reading the first four
in internal order: _Taltos_, _Yendi_, _Jhereg_, _Teckla_. You'll also
want to read as many of the Vlad books as you can before reading
_Orca_, _Issola_, and _Dzur_.
--
Konrad Gaertner - - - - - - - - - - - - - email: kgae...@tx.rr.com
http://kgbooklog.livejournal.com/
"If I let myself get hung up on only doing things that had any actual
chance of success, I'd never do *anything*!" Elan, Order of the Stick
Damien Sullivan
>When he says "modeled on Dumas", that includes the ornate overwordy
>style. Steven should post the section on the history of the Inn of The
>Painted Sign & Bengoalurafurd Bridge on the web somewhere. I think it
>shows the best of his style w/o any particular spoilers. If you can
>stand that part, you'll probably love the book.
http://tenser.typepad.com/tenser_said_the_tensor/2004/04/dragaeran_etymo.html
Bengloarafurd Ford.
ford ford ford ford ford
-xx- Damien X-)
David DeLaney
In my opinion, it's best to read them in publishing order. The setting gets
more complex as the series goes on, and later-published books contain
spoilers from earlier-published ones, even if they're internally-chronologically
before them. Plus, it's not exactly easy to -fit- them in an internal
chronological order by this point.
If I haven't slipped up in adding books to my list, publishing order is
Jhereg, Yendi, Teckla, Taltos, Phoenix, Athyra, Orca, ^Dragon, ^Issola, ^Dzur.
And the next one's due out in not too long.
>Also, I seem to recall (and just confirmed by Wiki) that the Phoenix
>Guards series is in the same setting, but not the same series as teh
>ones about Vlad Taltos and friends (right?)
Right. They are set before and during Adron's Disaster and the Interregnum,
and take you up to the end of the latter; they are effectively prequels.
>- so should the Guards
>books be read before or after the Taltos books?
I'd wait till you've read at least some of the main series first, to give
you some idea of what-all is going on in the setting and whosawhatsa; if you
dive right into the Guards books (^The Phoenix Guards, ^Five Hundred Years
After, ^The Paths of the Dead, ^The Lord of Castle Black, ^Sethra Lavode)
before ever starting Jhereg, you may have more trouble figuring out what's
going on behind the scenes and who all these people are. They're still
ripping good yarns, but I think they improve once you know the setting they're
the backstory for, some. You don't have to read the entire existing series
before starting the Guards books - publishing order interweaves them - but
I'd think at least three or four of the main series would get you established.
Others may have other opinions, of course.
>Or just go with publication order on the whole lot?
Wouldn't hurt. That's how I read them, with rereadings every so often, and
I'm still (_ ()UI() U() K#%&&*&*( +++
NO CARRIER
--
\/David DeLaney posting from d...@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
David Cowie
> Phoenix, Athyra, Orca, ^Dragon, ^Issola, ^Dzur.
Why have you put the ^ in front of some titles but not others? I'm not
familiar with that convention.
--
David Cowie
Containment Failure + 37722:37
David DeLaney
>On Tue, 04 Mar 2008 04:50:25 -0500, David DeLaney wrote:
>> Phoenix, Athyra, Orca, ^Dragon, ^Issola, ^Dzur.
>
>Why have you put the ^ in front of some titles but not others? I'm not
>familiar with that convention.
Oh, that's just me - this is cut'n'paste from my inventory, and the ^ means
hardbacks.
Dave
David Goldfarb
David DeLaney <d...@gatekeeper.vic.com> wrote:
>If I haven't slipped up in adding books to my list, publishing order is
>Jhereg, Yendi, Teckla, Taltos, Phoenix, Athyra, Orca, ^Dragon, ^Issola, ^Dzur.
>And the next one's due out in not too long.
Amazon says July 8 for _Jhegaala_.
--
David Goldfarb |From the fortune cookie file:
gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu |"You have an ability to sense and know
gold...@csua.berkeley.edu | higher truth."
Mike Schilling
read Dumas's musketeer books, so read them first. That is, the order
goes something like:
Brust:
Jhereg, Yendi, Teckla, Taltos, Phoenix
Dumas
The Three Musketeers
Twenty Years After
The Vicomte de Bragellone (3-4 volumes, depending upon edition)
Brust
The Phoenix Guard
Five Hundred Years After
The Paths of the Dead
The Lord of Castle Black
Sethra Lavode
Athyra, Orca, Dragon, Issola, Dzur
Pete Granzeau
<wmgf...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>The Paarfi books are modeled on Dumas' Three Musketeers stories, with the
>first, The Phoenix Guards, roughly equivalent to the first Dumas book, The
>Three Musketeers. In them, the protagonist Khaavren is roughly equivalent
>to D'Artagnon. They start over half a century before Vlad's time, and over
>their course move up to just before, and entering into Vlad's time.
Um, the Paarfi novels begin 500 years before Adron's Disaster and the
Interregnum, and end with the end of the Interregnum, which is (as I
remember) something like 450 years before Vlad's time.
All of the Vlad novels, of course, happen in a really compressed time
frame (which I won't attempt to figure out), one of maybe 5 to 10 years.
Vlad's human, remember, and hasn't yet begun to show any age (although
he might at any time).
Pete Granzeau
Publication order, by all means. No book will constitute a spoiler on
one that follows, even inadvertently. There truly isn't a real
chronological order, anyway, as some of the books contain flashbacks
(one of them, as I remember, has flashbacks within flashbacks), but
necessarily also contain information further along chronologically.
William George Ferguson
wrote:
>On Mon, 03 Mar 2008 16:34:22 -0700, William George Ferguson
><wmgf...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>
>>The Paarfi books are modeled on Dumas' Three Musketeers stories, with the
>>first, The Phoenix Guards, roughly equivalent to the first Dumas book, The
>>Three Musketeers. In them, the protagonist Khaavren is roughly equivalent
>>to D'Artagnon. They start over half a century before Vlad's time, and over
>>their course move up to just before, and entering into Vlad's time.
>
>Um, the Paarfi novels begin 500 years before Adron's Disaster and the
>Interregnum, and end with the end of the Interregnum, which is (as I
>remember) something like 450 years before Vlad's time.
Mea Culpa. Of course, I meant millenium. If nothing else, the title of
the second book (Five Hundred Years After) shows that 'century' is right
out.
>All of the Vlad novels, of course, happen in a really compressed time
>frame (which I won't attempt to figure out), one of maybe 5 to 10 years.
>Vlad's human, remember, and hasn't yet begun to show any age (although
>he might at any time).
That's compressed compared to to the Dragaerean scale. Not all that
compressed compared to human lifetimes.
Mike Schilling
"William George Ferguson" <wmgf...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:1ners3dcjm9ulc1l1...@4ax.com...
>
>>All of the Vlad novels, of course, happen in a really compressed time
>>frame (which I won't attempt to figure out), one of maybe 5 to 10 years.
>>Vlad's human, remember, and hasn't yet begun to show any age (although
>>he might at any time).
>
> That's compressed compared to to the Dragaerean scale. Not all that
> compressed compared to human lifetimes.
Compressed in the usual sense for series fiction, where one guy has more
adventures in a year than most people have their entire lives, and that's
true many years in a row.
Kent
It's really a bit worse than flashbacks within flashbacks. I occasionally drag
him out as a case-in-point regarding point of view.
if I recall correctly, in at least one book, we are viewing the story in the
third person, as it is being told to another party by his wife. At least one
part of the book is her relating the story of what happened to Vlad, within
her telling the story of another player in the tale as told to her by that
third party, within which the third party is relating Vlad's part of the tale
as told to the third party by Vlad himself.
Kent
Howard Brazee
> It's really a bit worse than flashbacks within flashbacks. I
> occasionally drag
> him out as a case-in-point regarding point of view.
>
> if I recall correctly, in at least one book, we are viewing the story
> in the
> third person, as it is being told to another party by his wife. At
> least one
> part of the book is her relating the story of what happened to Vlad,
> within
> her telling the story of another player in the tale as told to her by
> that
> third party, within which the third party is relating Vlad's part of
> the tale
> as told to the third party by Vlad himself.
And that's not counting the case where time and space get confused and
it takes a flow chart to really see what happens when.
David DeLaney
So yeah, they're worth reading from the beginning.
William George Ferguson
See, I don't think of the Vlad books as all that compressed that way. As
an extreme instance of that sort of compression, look at the first six
Anita Blake books (you know, the good ones), which take place over the
course of 9 months (Guilty Pleasures takes place in mid July, and The
Killing Dance takes place early the following April). Compared to that,
the first 10 Vlad books are darned near liesurely.
David Goldfarb
Kent <kent.new...@gmail.com> wrote:
>if I recall correctly, in at least one book, we are viewing the story in the
>third person, as it is being told to another party by his wife.
I'm pretty sure you've got that backwards.
--
David Goldfarb |"The three basic elements of the universe:
gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu | caviar, truffles, and foie gras."
gold...@csua.berkeley.edu | -- Iron Chef
BP
wrote:
>I would go in publication order in each series,
>but wouldn't be careful to swap series when publication
>order dictates. The two provide background each for the
>other, but are pretty much distinct, and the styles are
>*very* different, so it's not uncommon to like Taltos
>but Parfii not so much.
>
>And Brokedown Palace (IMO) you can read anywhichwhen.
>It, too, is in the "same" setting, but... doesn't really fit.
>At least, not in any mundane way.
Thanks, Wayne, and everybody else who posted. I guess I'll start with
the Taltos books. I need to go to my FLGS tomorrow to pick up some
game stuff for my boys, and they also stock a lot of paperback SF, so
I'll see what I can find.
BP