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A Game of Thrones Spoiler Thoughts and Question

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Rodrick Su

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Sep 18, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/18/97
to

First Some Spoiler Spaces


A couple of questions on this book that left lots of threads hanging...

1. At one point Ned Stark's daughter Arya was lost in the maze below
the Red Keep in King's Landing, where she overheard, but not
understanding 2 men involved in a conspiracy. One of the men is
quite easily identified as Varys, the Spider, who made the statement
that the King's brother Stannis is safely beyond his reach in Stannis'
own powerbase of Dragonstone. The conspiracy apparently involved
getting Daenery or her brother with troops into the Seven Kingdoms
as soon as possible. My question is, who is the person Varys was
talking to? He cannot be any of the Lannisters since Varys mention
their plans as to how that matches up with his own plan. He cannot
be Littlefinger, since Varys also mention him in third person tense.

2. The line of sucession is now really screw up. Robert Baratheon died
without leaving any legimate heir, with the exception of many bastards
he sired. His so call legimate heir were product of Lannisters. By
law, his next heir should be his brother Stannis, who is busy building
up an army, since he is next on Lannister's hit list. Renly proclaim
himself to be king in the south, and appears to have the support of
his own powerbase of Storm's End and House Tyrell (Whose daughter
he married) and Martell. And in the North, Robb Stark has been
crowned as King of North.

3. Daenery's Dragon. It is my impression that only those of Targaryen
blood can command the Dragons. There are 2 such confirm persons in
the novel, Daenery and Aemon. Which leads me to the last question...

4. Jon Snow's parent. It is wholely consistent that Jon Snow is the
offspring of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark. Ned probably
keep this a secret because Rober Baratheon is obsess with killing
off all Targaryen, especially any offspring of Rhaegar.

5. If Jon Snow is a Targaryen, then by tradition, he is the most likely
mate to Daenery, being that she is his aunt...

--
[ Rodrick Su [ If at first you don't succeed, well, so much for ]
[ [ skydiving. [ ``Games of the Hangman'']
[ r...@tigana.com ]------------------------[ Victor O'Reilly ]

The Blue Rose

unread,
Sep 22, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/22/97
to

r...@primenet.com (Rodrick Su) wrote:
First Some Spoiler Space


>A couple of questions on this book that left lots of threads hanging...
>
>1. At one point Ned Stark's daughter Arya was lost in the maze below
> the Red Keep in King's Landing, where she overheard, but not
> understanding 2 men involved in a conspiracy. One of the men is

> quite easily identified as Varys,*snip* My question is, who is the person Varys was
> talking to?*snip*

A stout, scar faced well armed man who Arya found vaguely familiar.
Someone who is familiar with the castle and what is going on. Hmmm a
good question.

>2. The line of sucession is now really screw up. Robert Baratheon died
> without leaving any legimate heir, with the exception of many bastards
> he sired.

But wasn't there the implication of keeping the boy in the armourer
aside for a possible eventuality. Or am I confused?

> His so call legimate heir were product of Lannisters. By
> law, his next heir should be his brother Stannis, who is busy building
> up an army, since he is next on Lannister's hit list. Renly proclaim
> himself to be king in the south, and appears to have the support of
> his own powerbase of Storm's End and House Tyrell (Whose daughter
> he married) and Martell. And in the North, Robb Stark has been
> crowned as King of North.

I think that is why war is planned on all sides <droll grin>. Of
course what about Daenrys, her family had the throne before Robert
took it from them.


>
>3. Daenery's Dragon. It is my impression that only those of Targaryen
> blood can command the Dragons. There are 2 such confirm persons in
> the novel, Daenery and Aemon. Which leads me to the last question...
>
>4. Jon Snow's parent. It is wholely consistent that Jon Snow is the
> offspring of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark. Ned probably
> keep this a secret because Rober Baratheon is obsess with killing
> off all Targaryen, especially any offspring of Rhaegar.

Well!! I had considered it a slight possibility that Jon was Lyanna's
son but I thought Ned was the father. That is why he was so funny
about it when Catelyn asks about her. Your reasoning puts an entirely
new light on things indeed.


>
>5. If Jon Snow is a Targaryen, then by tradition, he is the most likely
> mate to Daenery, being that she is his aunt...
>

And if not?

I am going to have to read it again now dammit :-)

Stacey


Stacey Hill (note spambuster in my address if replying by e-mail)
"Men are like parking spaces: the best ones are taken and
the only ones left are handicapped!"
sta...@xtra.co.nz

RACHEBROWN

unread,
Sep 23, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/23/97
to

>>A couple of questions on this book that left lots of threads hanging...
>>
>>1. At one point Ned Stark's daughter Arya was lost in the maze below
>> the Red Keep in King's Landing, where she overheard, but not
>> understanding 2 men involved in a conspiracy. One of the men is
>> quite easily identified as Varys,*snip* My question is, who is the
>person Varys was
>> talking to?*snip*
>
>

I believe the person you think is Varys is actually Illyrio, who married
off Dany -- this is the fat man with the forked yellow beard, a detail
mentioned in both descriptions. I'm not sure who the other man.

>>5. If Jon Snow is a Targaryen, then by tradition, he is the most likely
>> mate to Daenery, being that she is his aunt...

Possibly, but Dany has already broke tradition by marrying outside of the
family. Also, if we believe Mirri Maz Duur, who may not be reliable, Dany
will never have another child, which would make an alliance by marriage
with Jon problematic. And Jon swore not to marry or have children. Still,
you never know.

Personally, the most burning question on my mind is what's going to happen
with Rickon and his Shaggydog. I think they may be headed in a very nasty
direction.

Rachel

The Blue Rose

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Sep 23, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/23/97
to

rache...@aol.com (RACHEBROWN) wrote:

>>>A couple of questions on this book that left lots of threads hanging...
>>>
>>>1. At one point Ned Stark's daughter Arya was lost in the maze below
>>> the Red Keep in King's Landing, where she overheard, but not
>>> understanding 2 men involved in a conspiracy. One of the men is
>>> quite easily identified as Varys,*snip* My question is, who is the
>>person Varys was
>>> talking to?*snip*
>>
>>
>
>I believe the person you think is Varys is actually Illyrio, who married
>off Dany -- this is the fat man with the forked yellow beard, a detail
>mentioned in both descriptions. I'm not sure who the other man.

Yes now that you have reminded me of his name, that is who I first
thought the speaker was. I initially agreed with the previous posters
idea of Varys cos I could not find a physical description of him to
disprove my idea.

Even so - who was the other man?

Daniel Ban

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Sep 23, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/23/97
to

On Tue, 23 Sep 1997 06:39:56 GMT, sta...@xtra.co.nz (The Blue Rose)
wrote:

>rache...@aol.com (RACHEBROWN) wrote:
>
>>>>A couple of questions on this book that left lots of threads hanging...
>>>>
>>>>1. At one point Ned Stark's daughter Arya was lost in the maze below
>>>> the Red Keep in King's Landing, where she overheard, but not
>>>> understanding 2 men involved in a conspiracy. One of the men is
>>>> quite easily identified as Varys,*snip* My question is, who is the
>>>person Varys was
>>>> talking to?*snip*
>>>
>>>
>>
>>I believe the person you think is Varys is actually Illyrio, who married
>>off Dany -- this is the fat man with the forked yellow beard, a detail
>>mentioned in both descriptions. I'm not sure who the other man.

One of the men is definitely the merchant Illyrio but I believe the
other is not Varys but is Littlefinger - I believe that this goes a
long way to explaining the game Littlefinger is playing - Littlefinger
is loyal to no one but himself but I believe that he still desires
Catelyn Tully - I think he intends to aid Illyrio in overthrowing the
established order and then claim Catelyn as his "prize".

Rodrick Su

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Sep 23, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/23/97
to

The only problem with that is, the other person who is not Illyrio and
a citizen of the Seven Kingdom is most certainly not Littlefinger.
During their conversation, they mention several names in third person
form, and Littlefinger is one of them.

karl Griffin

unread,
Sep 24, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/24/97
to

The Blue Rose (sta...@xtra.co.nz) wrote:
> r...@primenet.com (Rodrick Su) wrote:
> First Some Spoiler Space

> >A couple of questions on this book that left lots of threads hanging...

I agree that Jon is most likely a Tarygeon bastard.

And I think the two conspirators are Illyrio and Varys

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Karl Griffin
Carleton University
Email address: kgri...@chat.carleton.ca

"Cats and Gentlemen always land on their feet. Possibly because we fall
often and from great height."
----------------------------------------------------------------------

izea...@gmail.com

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Jun 26, 2016, 10:18:17 PM6/26/16
to
> 4. Jon Snow's parent. It is wholely consistent that Jon Snow is the
> offspring of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark. Ned probably
> keep this a secret because Rober Baratheon is obsess with killing
> off all Targaryen, especially any offspring of Rhaegar.

Vindication.

Peter Trei

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Jun 27, 2016, 8:51:36 AM6/27/16
to
OK, this is one case where resurrecting a 19 year old thread is justified.

Well called!

pt

gandhar...@gmail.com

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Aug 30, 2017, 6:15:55 PM8/30/17
to
On Thursday, 18 September 1997 00:00:00 UTC-7, Rodrick Su wrote:
> First Some Spoiler Spaces
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> A couple of questions on this book that left lots of threads hanging...
>
> 1. At one point Ned Stark's daughter Arya was lost in the maze below
> the Red Keep in King's Landing, where she overheard, but not
> understanding 2 men involved in a conspiracy. One of the men is
> quite easily identified as Varys, the Spider, who made the statement
> that the King's brother Stannis is safely beyond his reach in Stannis'
> own powerbase of Dragonstone. The conspiracy apparently involved
> getting Daenery or her brother with troops into the Seven Kingdoms
> as soon as possible. My question is, who is the person Varys was
> talking to? He cannot be any of the Lannisters since Varys mention
> their plans as to how that matches up with his own plan. He cannot
> be Littlefinger, since Varys also mention him in third person tense.
>
> 2. The line of sucession is now really screw up. Robert Baratheon died
> without leaving any legimate heir, with the exception of many bastards
> he sired. His so call legimate heir were product of Lannisters. By
> law, his next heir should be his brother Stannis, who is busy building
> up an army, since he is next on Lannister's hit list. Renly proclaim
> himself to be king in the south, and appears to have the support of
> his own powerbase of Storm's End and House Tyrell (Whose daughter
> he married) and Martell. And in the North, Robb Stark has been
> crowned as King of North.
>
> 3. Daenery's Dragon. It is my impression that only those of Targaryen
> blood can command the Dragons. There are 2 such confirm persons in
> the novel, Daenery and Aemon. Which leads me to the last question...
>
> 4. Jon Snow's parent. It is wholely consistent that Jon Snow is the
> offspring of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark. Ned probably
> keep this a secret because Rober Baratheon is obsess with killing
> off all Targaryen, especially any offspring of Rhaegar.
>
> 5. If Jon Snow is a Targaryen, then by tradition, he is the most likely
> mate to Daenery, being that she is his aunt...
>
> --
> [ Rodrick Su [ If at first you don't succeed, well, so much for ]
> [ [ skydiving. [ ``Games of the Hangman'']
> [ r...@tigana.com ]------------------------[ Victor O'Reilly ]

Whoa! I came here in 2017 via a link posted on Vox. Internet is awesome!
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted

marik....@web.de

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Sep 7, 2017, 8:01:26 PM9/7/17
to
20 Years later ur Theory comes true :0

jo.w...@gmail.com

unread,
Sep 18, 2017, 7:39:15 PM9/18/17
to
On Thursday, September 18, 1997 at 3:00:00 PM UTC+8, Rodrick Su wrote:
> 4. Jon Snow's parent. It is wholely consistent that Jon Snow is the
> offspring of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark. Ned probably
> keep this a secret because Rober Baratheon is obsess with killing
> off all Targaryen, especially any offspring of Rhaegar.
>
> 5. If Jon Snow is a Targaryen, then by tradition, he is the most likely
> mate to Daenery, being that she is his aunt...

Good call Rodrick!

roopes...@gmail.com

unread,
Feb 28, 2018, 9:15:21 PM2/28/18
to
On Thursday, September 18, 1997 at 3:00:00 AM UTC-4, Rodrick Su wrote:
> First Some Spoiler Spaces
>
>
>
> Nice!!!!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> A couple of questions on this book that left lots of threads hanging...
>
> 1. At one point Ned Stark's daughter Arya was lost in the maze below
> the Red Keep in King's Landing, where she overheard, but not
> understanding 2 men involved in a conspiracy. One of the men is
> quite easily identified as Varys, the Spider, who made the statement
> that the King's brother Stannis is safely beyond his reach in Stannis'
> own powerbase of Dragonstone. The conspiracy apparently involved
> getting Daenery or her brother with troops into the Seven Kingdoms
> as soon as possible. My question is, who is the person Varys was
> talking to? He cannot be any of the Lannisters since Varys mention
> their plans as to how that matches up with his own plan. He cannot
> be Littlefinger, since Varys also mention him in third person tense.
>
> 2. The line of sucession is now really screw up. Robert Baratheon died
> without leaving any legimate heir, with the exception of many bastards
> he sired. His so call legimate heir were product of Lannisters. By
> law, his next heir should be his brother Stannis, who is busy building
> up an army, since he is next on Lannister's hit list. Renly proclaim
> himself to be king in the south, and appears to have the support of
> his own powerbase of Storm's End and House Tyrell (Whose daughter
> he married) and Martell. And in the North, Robb Stark has been
> crowned as King of North.
>
> 3. Daenery's Dragon. It is my impression that only those of Targaryen
> blood can command the Dragons. There are 2 such confirm persons in
> the novel, Daenery and Aemon. Which leads me to the last question...
>
> 4. Jon Snow's parent. It is wholely consistent that Jon Snow is the
> offspring of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark. Ned probably
> keep this a secret because Rober Baratheon is obsess with killing
> off all Targaryen, especially any offspring of Rhaegar.
>
> 5. If Jon Snow is a Targaryen, then by tradition, he is the most likely
> mate to Daenery, being that she is his aunt...
>

Cryptoengineer

unread,
Feb 28, 2018, 9:45:05 PM2/28/18
to
roopes...@gmail.com wrote in
news:1bfb745c-93e1-4fcb...@googlegroups.com:

> On Thursday, September 18, 1997 at 3:00:00 AM UTC-4, Rodrick Su wrote:
>> First Some Spoiler Spaces
>>
>>
>>
>> Nice!!!!
>>
[.....]

It's not that uncommon for people who don't pay attention to reply
to long-dead threads.

Its not even unknown for them to reply to threads over 20 years old.

But it is unusual for them not to make any new comment at all, or to
respond to a thread post the content of which makes it obvious it's long
been overtaken by events.

pt

Scott Lurndal

unread,
Mar 1, 2018, 9:24:06 AM3/1/18
to
I suspect the poster was pointing out Rodrick Su's correct guesses
twenty years before season 7.

The Zygon

unread,
Mar 11, 2018, 10:17:33 PM3/11/18
to
On Thursday, September 18, 1997 at 3:00:00 AM UTC-4, Rodrick Su wrote:
> First Some Spoiler Spaces
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Am I wrong that this series stopped at the height of its popularity with so many lose ends open? Why? Or am I wrong?

hamis...@gmail.com

unread,
Mar 11, 2018, 10:44:12 PM3/11/18
to
On Monday, March 12, 2018 at 1:17:33 PM UTC+11, The Zygon wrote:
> On Thursday, September 18, 1997 at 3:00:00 AM UTC-4, Rodrick Su wrote:
> > First Some Spoiler Spaces
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> Am I wrong that this series stopped at the height of its popularity with so many lose ends open? Why? Or am I wrong?

It hasn't stopped. It's just a long time between books

The Zygon

unread,
Mar 12, 2018, 2:14:20 AM3/12/18
to
Thanks. I was a bit confused about that. It did not seem clear if they had ended the series or just the season.

hamis...@gmail.com

unread,
Mar 12, 2018, 9:53:54 AM3/12/18
to
I believe it's been confirmed that the next season of the TV show isn't airing until 2019
Wikipedia lists season 8 as Airing in 2019

Dimensional Traveler

unread,
Mar 12, 2018, 10:51:47 AM3/12/18
to
Considering that this thread is a zombie thread from 1997, it is about
the books.

--
Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation
instinct are running screaming.

The Last Doctor

unread,
Mar 12, 2018, 12:29:58 PM3/12/18
to
Dimensional Traveler <dtr...@sonic.net> wrote:
> On 3/11/2018 11:14 PM, The Zygon wrote:
>> On Sunday, March 11, 2018 at 10:44:12 PM UTC-4, hamis...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> On Monday, March 12, 2018 at 1:17:33 PM UTC+11, The Zygon wrote:
>>>> On Thursday, September 18, 1997 at 3:00:00 AM UTC-4, Rodrick Su wrote:
>>>>> First Some Spoiler Spaces
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Am I wrong that this series stopped at the height of its popularity
>>>> with so many lose ends open? Why? Or am I wrong?
>>>
>>> It hasn't stopped. It's just a long time between books
>>
>> Thanks. I was a bit confused about that. It did not seem clear if
>> they had ended the series or just the season.
>>
> Considering that this thread is a zombie thread from 1997, it is about
> the books.
>

Just the first book in fact, I think? A Clash of Kings was late 98.

--
There are some corners of the universe which have bred the most terrible
things. Things which act against everything we believe in. They must be
fought.

Ted Nolan <tednolan>

unread,
Mar 12, 2018, 12:36:22 PM3/12/18
to
In article <p869u2$1crh$1...@gioia.aioe.org>,
The Last Doctor <mi...@xenocyte.com> wrote:
>Dimensional Traveler <dtr...@sonic.net> wrote:
>> On 3/11/2018 11:14 PM, The Zygon wrote:
>>> On Sunday, March 11, 2018 at 10:44:12 PM UTC-4, hamis...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> On Monday, March 12, 2018 at 1:17:33 PM UTC+11, The Zygon wrote:
>>>>> On Thursday, September 18, 1997 at 3:00:00 AM UTC-4, Rodrick Su wrote:
>>>>>> First Some Spoiler Spaces
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> Am I wrong that this series stopped at the height of its popularity
>>>>> with so many lose ends open? Why? Or am I wrong?
>>>>
>>>> It hasn't stopped. It's just a long time between books
>>>
>>> Thanks. I was a bit confused about that. It did not seem clear if
>>> they had ended the series or just the season.
>>>
>> Considering that this thread is a zombie thread from 1997, it is about
>> the books.
>>
>
>Just the first book in fact, I think? A Clash of Kings was late 98.
>

Wow, I did not realize we are 20 years into GOT!
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

David DeLaney

unread,
Mar 14, 2018, 1:34:20 AM3/14/18
to
Which segues neatly into a planned post of mine on Series On Hiatus That Have
Recently Updated:

First off, a few weeks ago the last book in Michelle Sagara's YA Queen of the
Dead trilogy finally appeared, Grave. Thinga get wrapped up, questions get
answered, etc.

Secondly, Janny Wurts' book 10 in her Mistwraith/Desh'thiere series just
dropped this weekend in hardback, Destiny's Conflict, and it says there will
be one more in the current subtrilogy. I had actually forgotten how much I
love reading her prose; it _exercises_ so much of my English vocabulary, in
contrast to most other authors. (Some could write about as well in Basic
English.) And not really in Donaldson's way where you read with a tab open to
dictionary.com; rather, you can figure an unfamiliar adjective out from context
and move on, though I can see how those who haven't encountered as many words
might get worn out from contexting every paragraph or two. Epic Joe-Bob the
Fellowship disincarnate Mage signs two spectral thumbs up!

Getting more specialized, I recently found out that the long-awaited sequel to
the immense superpeople webfiction Worm has started up, Ward. The first was/is
at parahumans.wordpress.com, while Wildbow has put the new one up at a new
site, www.parahumans.net , instead. It's been going since November, in the same
chapter-at-a-time episodic fashion, almost like a throwback to Dickens'
magazine publications, but with comments enabled (and Wildbow moderates them,
so they are quite readable and interesting swamps of iniquity and despair).

And even more specialized, one particular Worm fanfiction that was silent (hah,
I make joek) for a few years is going again, Silencio - instead of powers of
insect-control, Taylor triggers with powers of shaping and using invisible
objects. ... that's right, she's a Super Mime. The story's shipping chart has
to be experienced to be believed.

So who-all else has recently received a pleasant literary surprise from what
they thought were cooling ashes?

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting thru EarthLink - "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
my gatekeeper archives are no longer accessible :( / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

Scott Lurndal

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Mar 14, 2018, 10:18:33 AM3/14/18
to
David DeLaney <davidd...@earthlink.net> writes:
>On 2018-03-12, hamis...@gmail.com <hamis...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Monday, March 12, 2018 at 1:17:33 PM UTC+11, The Zygon wrote:
>>> Am I wrong that this series stopped at the height of its popularity with so
>>> many lose ends open? Why? Or am I wrong?
>>
>> It hasn't stopped. It's just a long time between books
>
>Which segues neatly into a planned post of mine on Series On Hiatus That Have
>Recently Updated:
>
>First off, a few weeks ago the last book in Michelle Sagara's YA Queen of the
>Dead trilogy finally appeared, Grave. Thinga get wrapped up, questions get
>answered, etc.

And the last book in her House War series _War_ has been turned into
the editor.

The next book in the Wilks _Lupus_ series has recently debuted.

The next book in Campbell's follow-on series to the Pillars of Reality
series has recently been published.
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