Oglaf this week: So dada I laughed out loud. (Totally NSFW)

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

This link should work for everyone except Dorothy:

https://www.oglaf.com/alterations-and-repairs/

"That's not how this works, that's not how any of this works!"
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <i7uubi...@mid.individual.net>,

Ted Nolan <tednolan> <tednolan> wrote:
>This link should work for everyone except Dorothy:
>
> https://www.oglaf.com/alterations-and-repairs/
>
>"That's not how this works, that's not how any of this works!"

Nope, I don't get it. Don't bother to explain.

/e makes mental note: next time someone mentions "Oglaf," hit 'n'

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

[Robert Carnegie]

I'm reminded of the incident of David Lister's boxer shorts
during the monster attack in _Red Dwarf_ episode
<https://reddwarf.fandom.com/wiki/RD:_Polymorph>

At that point in the action, the "shorts" /are/ the monster.

And... somewhere in Africa, Cameroon perhaps, there was
said to be an outbreak in modern times of the use of
witchcraft to make men's genitals disappear and then
charge a ransom for their return: this was said to be
specifically outlawed by the Penal Code.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <f2cb96f1-e7d8-459f...@googlegroups.com>,

There are (so I've read) several Southeast Asian cultures where a
man's fear that his genitals are going to shrink and disappear
inside him is ... not unheard of, not even rare, and men
suffering from this obsession tend to drive around (or be driven
around) from place to place, seeking a doctor (or witch-doctor
equivalent) who can fix it; the while, having a female relative
sitting beside him, holding onto his virile member for dear life
lest it disappear.

Now I'm remembering a conversation I had some fifty years ago,
with a female friend whose experience with different membra
virilia was much greater than mine, who told me, "There are
danglers, and there are shrinkers." And presumably she knew
whereof she spoke. Perhaps these frightened Southeast Asians
and Cameroonians are all shrinkers? I have no intention of
taking a survey.

[Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha]

djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote in
news:qnyvB...@kithrup.com:

> There are (so I've read) several Southeast Asian cultures where
> a man's fear that his genitals are going to shrink and disappear
> inside him is ... not unheard of, not even rare, and men
> suffering from this obsession tend to drive around (or be driven
> around) from place to place, seeking a doctor (or witch-doctor
> equivalent) who can fix it; the while, having a female relative
> sitting beside him, holding onto his virile member for dear life
> lest it disappear.
>

And that couldn't possibly ever be a ruse to get one's girlfriend to
give one a handjob in the car, of course.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <XnsACC67568541...@69.16.179.43>,

Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote in
>news:qnyvB...@kithrup.com:
>
>> There are (so I've read) several Southeast Asian cultures where
>> a man's fear that his genitals are going to shrink and disappear
>> inside him is ... not unheard of, not even rare, and men
>> suffering from this obsession tend to drive around (or be driven
>> around) from place to place, seeking a doctor (or witch-doctor
>> equivalent) who can fix it; the while, having a female relative
>> sitting beside him, holding onto his virile member for dear life
>> lest it disappear.
>>
>And that couldn't possibly ever be a ruse to get one's girlfriend to
>give one a handjob in the car, of course.
>

Well, depends on the culture, I guess. I did say "female
*relative*", like his mother or his aunt or something. Now, such
things do happen, but if you had the chance of doing the deed
with your girlfriend or you aunt, which would you choose?

[Alan Baker]

On 2021-02-03 6:51 a.m., Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <i7uubi...@mid.individual.net>,
> Ted Nolan <tednolan> <tednolan> wrote:
>> This link should work for everyone except Dorothy:
>>
>> https://www.oglaf.com/alterations-and-repairs/
>>
>> "That's not how this works, that's not how any of this works!"
>
> Nope, I don't get it. Don't bother to explain.
>
> /e makes mental note: next time someone mentions "Oglaf," hit 'n'
>

Yes. Whatever you do, avoid any possibility of anything new.

[Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha]

djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote in

news:qnz3t...@kithrup.com:

> In article <XnsACC67568541...@69.16.179.43>,
> Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote in
>>news:qnyvB...@kithrup.com:
>>
>>> There are (so I've read) several Southeast Asian cultures
>>> where a man's fear that his genitals are going to shrink and
>>> disappear inside him is ... not unheard of, not even rare, and
>>> men suffering from this obsession tend to drive around (or be
>>> driven around) from place to place, seeking a doctor (or
>>> witch-doctor equivalent) who can fix it; the while, having a
>>> female relative sitting beside him, holding onto his virile
>>> member for dear life lest it disappear.
>>>
>>And that couldn't possibly ever be a ruse to get one's
>>girlfriend to give one a handjob in the car, of course.
>>
> Well, depends on the culture, I guess. I did say "female
> *relative*", like his mother or his aunt or something.

Well, I *did* grow up in uncle/granspa country in rural Missouri.

> Now,
> such things do happen, but if you had the chance of doing the
> deed with your girlfriend or you aunt, which would you choose?
>

But I was born in Nebraska, which is very redneck, but so far as I
know, never allowed first cousins to marry.

[Joel Polowin]

I think that "this site is very much not to my taste" is a perfectly
reasonable response for someone to have. It's not a judgement on the
worthiness of the site or on those who enjoy it.

Joel

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

[Alan Baker]

On 2021-02-03 3:49 p.m., Joel Polowin wrote:
> On 2021-02-03 6:32 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
>> On 2021-02-03 6:51 a.m., Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>> /e makes mental note: next time someone mentions "Oglaf," hit 'n'
>>
>> Yes. Whatever you do, avoid any possibility of anything new.
>
> I think that "this site is very much not to my taste" is a perfectly
> reasonable response for someone to have.  It's not a judgement on the
> worthiness of the site or on those who enjoy it.

It's a judgement on the PERSON that having seen example of something,
they declare the entire body of work unworthy.

[Kevrob]

When I was not yet a teenager, I thought my older second cousin
was pretty cute. Would that satisfy the taboo? :)

None of my aunts were simultaneously young enough or cute
enough to tempt me.

--
Kevin R

[Joel Polowin]

First, you don't know how much Dorothy learned about the site.

Second, I see nothing at all wrong with someone deciding that a site
which posted a cartoon like that is a site that's aimed at "not me".
Sexual humour is not to everyone's taste, and that cartoon is fairly
crude.

[Alan Baker]

On 2021-02-03 4:36 p.m., Joel Polowin wrote:
> On 2021-02-03 6:57 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
>> On 2021-02-03 3:49 p.m., Joel Polowin wrote:
>>> On 2021-02-03 6:32 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
>>>> On 2021-02-03 6:51 a.m., Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>>>> /e makes mental note: next time someone mentions "Oglaf," hit 'n'
>>>>
>>>> Yes. Whatever you do, avoid any possibility of anything new.
>>>
>>> I think that "this site is very much not to my taste" is a perfectly
>>> reasonable response for someone to have.  It's not a judgement on the
>>> worthiness of the site or on those who enjoy it.
>>
>> It's a judgement on the PERSON that having seen example of something,
>> they declare the entire body of work unworthy.
>
> First, you don't know how much Dorothy learned about the site.

I only know what she said and from it I inferred a distinct lack of
familiarity.

>
> Second, I see nothing at all wrong with someone deciding that a site
> which posted a cartoon like that is a site that's aimed at "not me".
> Sexual humour is not to everyone's taste, and that cartoon is fairly
> crude.

Indeed.

But she went rather beyond simply deciding for herself not to visit the
site... ...but declared that simply mentioning the site would be reason
not to even read the POST.

[Robert Carnegie]

We've looked at Oglaf before. Note that Ted said -
as I read it - that the link was for "everyone except
Dorothy". We should have left it at that.

Mrs. Heydt is a respectable married lady of mature
years, a frequently published SF&F author, and has a
lot of friends who own actual swords, so be civil.

[Dimensional Traveler]

And actually _practice_ with said swords. :)

--
I like living in the suburbs of Sanity. I can commute there when I need
to be serious or mature but otherwise I can do as I please.

[Joe Pfeiffer]

The better the example, the better one is able to make a judgment of
the body of work it represents. Are you saying she just happened on a
horribly unrepresentative example?

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <c7913c06-71f7-c218...@sympatico.ca>,

Joel Polowin <jpol...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>On 2021-02-03 6:32 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
>> On 2021-02-03 6:51 a.m., Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>> /e makes mental note: next time someone mentions "Oglaf," hit 'n'
>>
>> Yes. Whatever you do, avoid any possibility of anything new.
>
>I think that "this site is very much not to my taste" is a perfectly
>reasonable response for someone to have. It's not a judgement on the
>worthiness of the site or on those who enjoy it.

No. There is SUPPOSEDLY a Native American proverb that says,
"Never judge a man until you have walked a mile in his
moccasins." My mental feet won't fit into the metaphorical
moccasins of someone who would find that strip funny, or
exciting, or even worth the time spent in clicking on the link to
see it. So I don't judge.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <6c723f9f-130d-453f...@googlegroups.com>,

<snerk>

We have a couple of swords around the house ourselves, if we
could find them. But there's a pandemic on, and we're not going
to go out and wield them, even if we could find them.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <9419c65c-940a-43db...@googlegroups.com>,

Good. I read entirely too many "agony aunts" online, and I've
seen at least one instance of a teenaged male who was seduced for
YEARS by his aunt.

[Alan Baker]

I have no idea.

What I DO know is that one example cannot tell you much.

[J. Clarke]

On Thu, 4 Feb 2021 02:00:10 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
wrote:

One of the "ones that got away" for me was a second cousin.

[Titus G]

Shhh. You are starting to dig a hole.

[Alan Baker]

I have been civil.

I haven't been nice. There's a difference.

And OGLAF has intersected with Dorothy's world precisely 8 times in the
past 10 years. And even there, she probably only actually looked at 4 or
5 strips (in the rest, she was replying to some sub-thread that had
developed).

Sorry, but I just don't see "I won't even read a POST if it contains the
word OGLAF" out of that.

It's closed-mindedness.

It's "Wah! I'm too old to understand computers!".

It offends me.

[Alan Baker]

I'll take my chances (now where's the :eyeroll: emoji?).

[Robert Carnegie]

I just made an unpleasant mental connection.

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgin_cleansing_myth>

The very harmful belief that, loosely speaking,
a sexual disease will leave you if you give it to
someone else.

As you say, as we know, that's not how this works.
Not in the real world with real communicable
diseases. Some of what "it" is leaves you, but
plenty stays.

Now, the worlds of Oglaf abound with supernatural
entities, visible and not, gods, fairies, curses, that
take an interest in sexual activity of conventionally
living beings (in a metabolic sense). Their interactions
which are shown are rarely pleasing once the story
ends. I suppose that that wouldn't be an especially
funny story, but some Oglaf pages seem to have
nothing funny anyway.

Most of the human recurring characters (is this one
here?) aren't great friends, either.

Here, there is an entity that possibly enjoys seeing
people wearing tiny kinky clothing, and that has the
power to make this be, and that dangles both ways,
as they say. If you escape quickly while it's distracted.

Perhaps you just need to change into other trousers,
but supernatural cautionary tales, at least for adults,
tend not to have an easy solution, or any solution.
Children's story problems, e.g. you are living with a
witch who plans to fatten and then eat you, are solvable.
An adult sees Death look at him funny and immediately
buys a fast horse to get away - that isn't going to work.

Maybe it's a complete con and this lady just gets you alone
and distracted and then steals your trousers and provides
a cheaper substitute and an unusual excuse. No thong fairy
involved at all. Though in the setting, thong fairy and trouser
thief are equally reasonable explanations.

Do you think I've spent more time on this than they did?

[Joe Pfeiffer]

One *good* example tells you everything.

That's why we use them when we're teaching.

[Joe Pfeiffer]

Starting?

[Alan Baker]

The problem is knowing if you're getting a good example...

...if you've only ever seen one example.

[Joy Beeson]

On Wed, 03 Feb 2021 19:01:38 -0700, Joe Pfeiffer
<pfei...@cs.nmsu.edu> wrote:

> The better the example, the better one is able to make a judgment of
> the body of work it represents. Are you saying she just happened on a
> horribly unrepresentative example?

The responses to Alan Baker strongly suggest that I *hadn't* happened
on a horribly unreprsentative example when I killfiled him many years
ago.

I wonder whether the current version of Agent would allow me to also
mark read all responses. But only idly; skipping over responses to
posts that come in marked read is less trouble than learning a new
interface that resembles the old one just enough to be confusing.

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at centurylink dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/

[J. Clarke]

On Thu, 04 Feb 2021 00:42:35 -0500, Joy Beeson
<jbe...@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:

>On Wed, 03 Feb 2021 19:01:38 -0700, Joe Pfeiffer
><pfei...@cs.nmsu.edu> wrote:
>
>> The better the example, the better one is able to make a judgment of
>> the body of work it represents. Are you saying she just happened on a
>> horribly unrepresentative example?
>
>The responses to Alan Baker strongly suggest that I *hadn't* happened
>on a horribly unreprsentative example when I killfiled him many years
>ago.
>
>I wonder whether the current version of Agent would allow me to also
>mark read all responses. But only idly; skipping over responses to
>posts that come in marked read is less trouble than learning a new
>interface that resembles the old one just enough to be confusing.

If there's a way to mark as read responses to killfiled posters I
haven't found it. On the other hand, killing the whole thread is an
option.

[Quadibloc]

I don't think such a harsh criticism is justified simply because someone
does not wish to view sexually explicit material.

John Savard

[Kevrob]

On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 9:10:03 PM UTC-5, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <6c723f9f-130d-453f...@googlegroups.com>,
> Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:

[snip]

> >Mrs. Heydt is a respectable married lady of mature
> >years, a frequently published SF&F author, and has a
> >lot of friends who own actual swords, so be civil.
> <snerk>
>
> We have a couple of swords around the house ourselves, if we
> could find them. But there's a pandemic on, and we're not going
> to go out and wield them, even if we could find them.
> --

I'd think a suitably long pig-sticker just the thing for
measuring "social distancing," except that the local
gendarmes might shoot first and ask questions later.
A spear, glaive, billhook, pike.. would do the trick, also.

I've got a long wooden pole in my storage room, the remnant
of some piece of furniture a previous tenant, long moved out,
left behind, that's taller than I am. It'd make a fine buck-and-
a-quarter staff. :) [/D Duck of WB]

--
Kevin R
a.a #2310

[Jaimie Vandenbergh]

On 4 Feb 2021 at 05:42:35 GMT, "Joy Beeson"

<jbe...@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:

> On Wed, 03 Feb 2021 19:01:38 -0700, Joe Pfeiffer
> <pfei...@cs.nmsu.edu> wrote:
>
>> The better the example, the better one is able to make a judgment of
>> the body of work it represents. Are you saying she just happened on a
>> horribly unrepresentative example?
>
> The responses to Alan Baker strongly suggest that I *hadn't* happened
> on a horribly unreprsentative example when I killfiled him many years
> ago.
>
> I wonder whether the current version of Agent would allow me to also
> mark read all responses. But only idly; skipping over responses to
> posts that come in marked read is less trouble than learning a new
> interface that resembles the old one just enough to be confusing.

Unfortunately Agent doesn't support "kill a first reply to poster X",
no. It does support "kill the entire descendent conversation from a post
by X", the 'subthread' tick box on the kill panel, but that's sometimes
a bit overmuch. Not always, there seems to be nothing of worth every
happening downstream of Jonathan, for example.

(If you ever happen to go Mac, the recently-released Usenapp reader has
a significant Agent flavour to it, as I put in a lot of
Agent-UI-oriented feature requests while it was being developed and the
developer was kind enough to humour me!)

Cheers - Jaimie
--
"The time you enjoy wasting is not wasted"
-- Bertrand Russell

[Gary R. Schmidt]

Well, with "Oglaf", yes, you can.

I've been reading it for years, and, as Ted wrote, "Not for Dorothy", is
what I would answer if asked.

Cheers,
Gary B-)

--
Waiting for a new signature to suggest itself...

[Gary R. Schmidt]

Nordic Walking Poles make a fine distance-keeper, and, at least here in
Oz, are quite legal. :-)

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <f174b3ba-c0c4-4975...@googlegroups.com>,

Kevrob <kev...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 9:10:03 PM UTC-5, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>> In article <6c723f9f-130d-453f...@googlegroups.com>,
>> Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
>
>[snip]
>
>> >Mrs. Heydt is a respectable married lady of mature
>> >years, a frequently published SF&F author, and has a
>> >lot of friends who own actual swords, so be civil.
>> <snerk>
>>
>> We have a couple of swords around the house ourselves, if we
>> could find them. But there's a pandemic on, and we're not going
>> to go out and wield them, even if we could find them.
>> --
>
>I'd think a suitably long pig-sticker just the thing for
>measuring "social distancing," except that the local
>gendarmes might shoot first and ask questions later.
>A spear, glaive, billhook, pike.. would do the trick, also.

Irrelevant; I don't go out of the house these days.

>
>I've got a long wooden pole in my storage room, the remnant
>of some piece of furniture a previous tenant, long moved out,
>left behind, that's taller than I am. It'd make a fine buck-and-
>a-quarter staff. :) [/D Duck of WB]

"...but I'm not gonna tell him that."

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <hb2teh-...@paranoia.mcleod-schmidt.id.au>,

Really, when I saw the opening page that said in essence "Do not
read if you are under eighteen," I should have had a clue. I
haven't been 18 for the last sixty years.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <1f2teh-...@paranoia.mcleod-schmidt.id.au>,

Gary R. Schmidt <grsc...@acm.org> wrote:

I do have a beautiful diamond-willow staff, about five feet long;
I could hold it at arm's length if I had the strength.

[Alan Baker]

Read it again.

[Alan Baker]

Which is all well and good.

But Dorothy goes out of her way to sneer at things.

[Dimensional Traveler]

He said to someone already at the bottom of a very deep hole.

--
I like living in the suburbs of Sanity. I can commute there when I need
to be serious or mature but otherwise I can do as I please.

[Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha]

Kevrob <kev...@my-deja.com> wrote in
news:9419c65c-940a-43db...@googlegroups.com:

> On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 5:15:03 PM UTC-5, Dorothy J

> Heydt wrote:
>> In article <XnsACC67568541...@69.16.179.43>,
>> Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote in
>> >news:qnyvB...@kithrup.com:
>> >
>> >> There are (so I've read) several Southeast Asian cultures
>> >> where a man's fear that his genitals are going to shrink and
>> >> disappear inside him is ... not unheard of, not even rare,
>> >> and men suffering from this obsession tend to drive around
>> >> (or be driven around) from place to place, seeking a doctor
>> >> (or witch-doctor equivalent) who can fix it; the while,
>> >> having a female relative sitting beside him, holding onto
>> >> his virile member for dear life lest it disappear.
>> >>
>> >And that couldn't possibly ever be a ruse to get one's
>> >girlfriend to give one a handjob in the car, of course.
>> >
>> Well, depends on the culture, I guess. I did say "female
>> *relative*", like his mother or his aunt or something. Now,
>> such things do happen, but if you had the chance of doing the
>> deed with your girlfriend or you aunt, which would you choose?
>> --
>
> When I was not yet a teenager, I thought my older second cousin
> was pretty cute. Would that satisfy the taboo? :)
>
> None of my aunts were simultaneously young enough or cute
> enough to tempt me.
>

I will note that first cousins marrying has been pretty commong
thoughout history. The Catholic Church frowned on it pretty early
on, but the royal families (or, rather, family, singular) of Europe
shows how successful that wasn't.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

[pete...@gmail.com]

There's a theory making the rounds that the RCC''s bans on cousin
marriage (they actually went far beyond first cousins) had an
unexpected positive effect on Western Society, compared to some
other parts of the world.

Aside from preventing genetic inbreeding, they also forced far more
'stranger marriages' - people marrying who are totally unrelated.

Where cousin marriage is common, not only are genetic problems
also common (Pakistan and the Gulf States have 50%+ of marriages
consanguineous, most Arab countries now have mandatory genetic
counselling before marriage), but also, society becomes clannish:
separate groups of related people marrying only inside the group,
to preserve property inside the group, among a trusted 'us'.

In Western Europe, such clans couldn't really form. Instead of
trusting and marrying only among the pool of extended family
they've known all their life, Europeans had to marry and trust
strangers.

This created a much more open and mobile society, and ultimately
a more prosperous one.

While I came up with this myself a few years ago, the idea has been
written up an expanded by Joseph Henrich, in "THE WEIRDEST PEOPLE
IN THE WORLD: How the West Became Psychologically Peculiar and
Particularly Prosperous".

There's a nice review at
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/12/books/review/the-weirdest-people-in-the-world-joseph-henrich.html

'WEIRD' here is a acronym for "Western, educated, industrialized, rich, democratic".

pt

[James Nicoll]

In article <9c90987a-98e4-4744...@googlegroups.com>,

pete...@gmail.com <pete...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>In Western Europe, such clans couldn't really form.

This will be an enormous surprise to both my father's and my
mother's families.
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

[Joel Polowin]

On 2021-02-03 9:59 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
> I have been civil.
>
> I haven't been nice. There's a difference.
>
> And OGLAF has intersected with Dorothy's world precisely 8 times in the
> past 10 years. And even there, she probably only actually looked at 4 or
> 5 strips (in the rest, she was replying to some sub-thread that had
> developed).
>
> Sorry, but I just don't see "I won't even read a POST if it contains the
> word OGLAF" out of that.
>
> It's closed-mindedness.
>
> It's "Wah! I'm too old to understand computers!".
>
> It offends me.

This by you is "civil"?!

Your final pseudo-quotation is really obnoxious. And has nothing to do
with her skipping posts about Oglaf.

Joel

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

[Alan Baker]

On 2021-02-04 12:46 p.m., Joel Polowin wrote:
> On 2021-02-03 9:59 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
>> I have been civil.
>>
>> I haven't been nice. There's a difference.
>>
>> And OGLAF has intersected with Dorothy's world precisely 8 times in the
>> past 10 years. And even there, she probably only actually looked at 4 or
>> 5 strips (in the rest, she was replying to some sub-thread that had
>> developed).
>>
>> Sorry, but I just don't see "I won't even read a POST if it contains the
>> word OGLAF" out of that.
>>
>> It's closed-mindedness.
>>
>> It's "Wah! I'm too old to understand computers!".
>>
>> It offends me.
>
> This by you is "civil"?!

Yup.

What is uncivil about offering up what I feel is her position on quite a
lot of subjects?

>
> Your final pseudo-quotation is really obnoxious.  And has nothing to do
> with her skipping posts about Oglaf.

It is an expansion to show a general attitude.

[Joel Polowin]

Which, again, you don't know.

But also, I think it's possible to make reasonable extrapolations:
if something is *so far* outside of one's enjoyment zone that one
can be confident that a site that displays it is indicating a
mindset that's incompatible with one's own. Once burned, twice
shy. I've encountered a few such sites myself: recommended by
friends or acquaintances, taken a quick look, and said "nope,
not going there again".

[Joel Polowin]

On 2021-02-04 3:58 PM, Joel Polowin wrote:
> On 2021-02-03 10:44 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
>> On 2021-02-03 7:17 p.m., Joe Pfeiffer wrote:
>>> One *good* example tells you everything.
>>
>> The problem is knowing if you're getting a good example...
>>
>> ...if you've only ever seen one example.
>
> Which, again, you don't know.

I correct myself. In another post, you say that:

>> And OGLAF has intersected with Dorothy's world precisely 8 times in the
>> past 10 years. And even there, she probably only actually looked at 4 or
>> 5 strips (in the rest, she was replying to some sub-thread that had
>> developed).

That is, you *do* know that your "one example" argument is bogus.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <XnsACC769D701A...@69.16.179.43>,

The medieval Church, actually, forbade intermarriage "within five
degrees of consanguinity," meaning one had to be able to count
five steps up and down to find a common ancestor. Of course, you
could get a Papal dispensation by paying enough money ... hence,
long lines of kings marrying princesses and nobles marrying other
nobles, of which the Hapsburgs were only the most egregious
example. (Google Charles II of Spain.)

Note: there were actually other families than the Hapsburgs that
inbred themselves literally to death. They're just the most
notorious.

[pete...@gmail.com]

On Thursday, February 4, 2021 at 3:10:12 PM UTC-5, James Nicoll wrote:
> In article <9c90987a-98e4-4744...@googlegroups.com>,
> pete...@gmail.com <pete...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >In Western Europe, such clans couldn't really form.
> This will be an enormous surprise to both my father's and my
> mother's families.

That your parents are from *different* families is evidence for
the thesis.

In many Arab countries, marrying your first cousin is the
normal default.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cousin_marriage_in_the_Middle_East

pt

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <9c90987a-98e4-4744...@googlegroups.com>,
pete...@gmail.com <pete...@gmail.com> wrote:

Uh .... Hapsburgs.

>This created a much more open and mobile society, and ultimately
>a more prosperous one.

In spite of the degree of endogamy they did get away with. (Again,
Hapsburgs.)

>
>While I came up with this myself a few years ago, the idea has been
>written up an expanded by Joseph Henrich, in "THE WEIRDEST PEOPLE
>IN THE WORLD: How the West Became Psychologically Peculiar and
>Particularly Prosperous".
>
>There's a nice review at
>https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/12/books/review/the-weirdest-people-in-the-world-joseph-henrich.html
>
>'WEIRD' here is a acronym for "Western, educated, industrialized, rich,
>democratic".

Sounds cool, I shall look it up.

[pete...@gmail.com]

It varied over time, but was usually much stricter than that. From
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prohibited_degree_of_kinship#Medieval_canon_law

"The Roman Catholic Church and Eastern Orthodox Church have a long history of marital prohibitions,[citation needed] called impediments to marriage, which limit the marriage of two closely related relatives. Initially, canon law followed Roman civil law until the early 9th century, when the Western Church increased the number of prohibited degrees from four to seven.[3] The method of calculation was also changed to simply count the number of generations back to the common ancestor.[4] This meant that marriage to anyone up to and including a sixth cousin was prohibited. The Fourth Lateran Council of 1215 decreed a change from seven prohibited degrees back to four (but retaining the same method of calculating; counting back to the common ancestor).[5]"

So, unless you were rich and powerful enough to get a dispensation, you had
to travel pretty far to find a mate.

pt

[Alan Baker]

On 2021-02-04 12:58 p.m., Joel Polowin wrote:
> On 2021-02-03 10:44 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
>> On 2021-02-03 7:17 p.m., Joe Pfeiffer wrote:
>>> One *good* example tells you everything.
>>
>> The problem is knowing if you're getting a good example...
>>
>> ...if you've only ever seen one example.
>
> Which, again, you don't know.

You're right.

But the implication that is that all you need is a single example if you
know it's a good example...

...which you cannot know if it's the only example you seen.

>
> But also, I think it's possible to make reasonable extrapolations:
> if something is *so far* outside of one's enjoyment zone that one
> can be confident that a site that displays it is indicating a
> mindset that's incompatible with one's own.  Once burned, twice
> shy.  I've encountered a few such sites myself: recommended by
> friends or acquaintances, taken a quick look, and said "nope,
> not going there again".

Said to yourself. Right.

Nor did you say to yourself (I feel fairly sure) that the mere mention
of that place would be reason not to read the POST in which it was
mentioned.

[Alan Baker]

On 2021-02-04 1:12 p.m., Joel Polowin wrote:
> On 2021-02-04 3:58 PM, Joel Polowin wrote:
>> On 2021-02-03 10:44 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
>>> On 2021-02-03 7:17 p.m., Joe Pfeiffer wrote:
>>>> One *good* example tells you everything.
>>>
>>> The problem is knowing if you're getting a good example...
>>>
>>> ...if you've only ever seen one example.
>>
>> Which, again, you don't know.
>
> I correct myself.  In another post, you say that:
> >> And OGLAF has intersected with Dorothy's world precisely 8 times in the
> >> past 10 years. And even there, she probably only actually looked at
> 4 or
> >> 5 strips (in the rest, she was replying to some sub-thread that had
> >> developed).
>
> That is, you *do* know that your "one example" argument is bogus.

When I said it, I based it on what I could infer from the way she
phrased it.

And my point was more about the 'click "n"' at the mere mention of oglaf.

[pete...@gmail.com]

The thesis applies to the general population. I'm under the impression
that the ability to buy dispensations was limited to wealthy nobility,
a tiny fraction of the general population. Am I incorrect in this?

That the Hapsburgs, and nobility in general, are no longer a
significant factor in Western civilization, is support for
the thesis.

pt

[Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha]

"pete...@gmail.com" <pete...@gmail.com> wrote in
news:9c90987a-98e4-4744...@googlegroups.com:

There's peer reviewed sciene that says that, genetically, it's not
a big deal unless it happens for several generation in a row.
Something like a single digit percentage increase in the chances of
birth defects that aren't very likely to begin with. Of course, in
some parts of the world, it has happened many generations in a row.

>
> This created a much more open and mobile society, and ultimately
> a more prosperous one.

I'm a little skeptical on the prosperous part, since the majority
of the wealth (as always) was in the hands a few people at the top
of hte food chain, and their obedience to the rules was . . .
erratic. (They firmly believed in it, though, when they wanted a
divorce and could only get an annullment, because it was pretty
much *always* possible to find an excuse somewhere in the family
tree. The RCC ban went a *lot* further than first cousins.)

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <dc8b7025-ccb0-38d5...@sympatico.ca>,

Joel Polowin <jpol...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>On 2021-02-04 3:58 PM, Joel Polowin wrote:
>> On 2021-02-03 10:44 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
>>> On 2021-02-03 7:17 p.m., Joe Pfeiffer wrote:
>>>> One *good* example tells you everything.
>>>
>>> The problem is knowing if you're getting a good example...
>>>
>>> ...if you've only ever seen one example.
>>
>> Which, again, you don't know.
>
>I correct myself. In another post, you say that:
> >> And OGLAF has intersected with Dorothy's world precisely 8 times in the
> >> past 10 years.

That may be true; I don't remember seeing it before (else I
would've just hit 'n' and we would not be having this long thread
on the topic). I'll try to remember next time it comes up.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <308d0b29-12f1-4af9...@googlegroups.com>,

Or, unless you were a peasant and your parish priest was only
semi-educated (which happened a lot, alas), and/or you couldn't
afford to travel far enough to find anyone who wasn't your
cousin, and nobody gave enough of a damn.

[Joel Polowin]

Well, no. This "...if you've only ever seen one example" was posted at
2021-02-03, 10:44 PM. Your accounting of how many times Dorothy had
looked at the site was posted at 2021-02-03, 9:59 PM.

And of course your inference "from the way she phrased it" was pretty
weak too.

[Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha]

"pete...@gmail.com" <pete...@gmail.com> wrote in
news:dcbd0d5e-f8d4-4fe1...@googlegroups.com:

You are corect, but that tiny fraction controlled the overwhelming
majority of the wealth.

>
> That the Hapsburgs, and nobility in general, are no longer a
> significant factor in Western civilization, is support for
> the thesis.
>

Correlation != casuation. The Black Death had more to do with it by
creating a severe labor shorts, and by extension, the middle class.
(Plus certain key agricultural technologies that freed up ever
larger percentages of the population from growing food just to say
alive, allowing for cities with skilled trasemen.)

[Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha]

djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote in

news:qo0vt...@kithrup.com:

The thing is, those family trees got a lot more attention when
someone wanted a divorce (or, rather, annulment, since divorce
wasn't happening) than when they wanted to get married.

[Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha]

djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote in

news:qo0y0...@kithrup.com:

Which applied well into the 20th century in certain parts of the
US, as well.

[Alan Baker]

On 2021-02-04 2:00 p.m., Joel Polowin wrote:
> On 2021-02-04 4:35 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
>> On 2021-02-04 1:12 p.m., Joel Polowin wrote:
>>> On 2021-02-04 3:58 PM, Joel Polowin wrote:
>>>> On 2021-02-03 10:44 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
>>>>> On 2021-02-03 7:17 p.m., Joe Pfeiffer wrote:
>>>>>> One *good* example tells you everything.
>>>>>
>>>>> The problem is knowing if you're getting a good example...
>>>>>
>>>>> ...if you've only ever seen one example.
>>>>
>>>> Which, again, you don't know.
>>>
>>> I correct myself.  In another post, you say that:
>>>  >> And OGLAF has intersected with Dorothy's world precisely 8 times
>>> in the
>>>  >> past 10 years. And even there, she probably only actually looked
>>> at 4 or
>>>  >> 5 strips (in the rest, she was replying to some sub-thread that had
>>>  >> developed).
>>>
>>> That is, you *do* know that your "one example" argument is bogus.
>>
>> When I said it, I based it on what I could infer from the way she
>> phrased it.
>
> Well, no.  This "...if you've only ever seen one example" was posted at
> 2021-02-03, 10:44 PM.  Your accounting of how many times Dorothy had
> looked at the site was posted at 2021-02-03, 9:59 PM.

And I was replying to a GENERAL comment about the worth of "one good
example", not specifically claiming at that point that Dorothy had only
ever seen one example.

>

> And of course your inference "from the way she phrased it" was pretty
> weak too.

Except Dorothy has just confirmed my inference was correct:

[Moriarty]

On Friday, February 5, 2021 at 8:15:03 AM UTC+11, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:

<snip>

> The medieval Church, actually, forbade intermarriage "within five
> degrees of consanguinity," meaning one had to be able to count
> five steps up and down to find a common ancestor. Of course, you
> could get a Papal dispensation by paying enough money ... hence,
> long lines of kings marrying princesses and nobles marrying other
> nobles, of which the Hapsburgs were only the most egregious
> example. (Google Charles II of Spain.)
>
> Note: there were actually other families than the Hapsburgs that
> inbred themselves literally to death. They're just the most
> notorious.

I wonder what the medieval Church would have made of the Baggins family tree, where Bilbo and Frodo were first AND second cousins, related on both sides?

-Moriarty

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <6b0953e5-d1eb-4205...@googlegroups.com>,

Let me get back to you on that. There are well-documented family
trees in the Appendices, but if I go looking for them, the cats
(vide supra) will get into the room again.

[Juho Julkunen]

In article <rvhmv0$k8c$1...@dont-email.me>, notony...@no.no.no.no
says...

>
> What is uncivil about offering up what I feel is her position on quite a
> lot of subjects?

That.

--
Juho Julkunen

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <qo1I3...@kithrup.com>,

All right. I can't draw a family tree in ASCII, so I'll take the
two lines separately. Note that in counting the degrees of
consanguinity, you don't count the one you start with (I think
that would constitute a fencepost error, but I am not a
mathematician).

BAGGINS: Bilbo was the son of Bungo, the son of Mungo, the son of
Balbo; another son of Balbo (and brother of Mungo) was Largo,
whose son was Fosco, whose son was Drogo, whose son was Frodo.
Counting up and down the degrees, I find that on the Baggins side
there are no fewer than seven degrees of consanguinity between
Bilbo and Frodo.

TOOK: Frodo was the son of Primula Brandybuck, daughter of
Mirabella Took, daughter of Gerontius Took. Another of the three
remarkable daughters of Gerontius* was Belladonna, who married
Bungo Baggins and became the mother of Bilbo. Counting up the
degrees, I find that on the Took side there are five degrees of
consanguinity between Bilbo and Frodo.

So if either Bilbo or Frodo had been a daughter instead of a son,
the medieval Church would have had no objection to a marriage
between them. It would certainly have objected to a same-sex
marriage; but in fact neither Bilbo nor Frodo ever married at
all, which may have resulted from the effect of possessing the
Ring over time.

Hope this helps.
_____
*The third was Donnamira, who married Hugo Boffin; the chart
shows no children of that marriage, but the Boffins don't come
into the story except tangentially.

[Quadibloc]

On Friday, February 5, 2021 at 8:40:04 AM UTC-7, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:

> *The third was Donnamira, who married Hugo Boffin; the chart
> shows no children of that marriage, but the Boffins don't come
> into the story except tangentially.

Boffins? In the Lord of the Rings?

One should hope not; it's supposed to be fantasy, not science-fiction!

John Savard

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <e5f7c3c8-37ba-41c1...@googlegroups.com>,

Obviously, the meaning changed over place and/or time.

/e grabs _RotK_, still conveniently at hand, and searches
Appendices again

----------------------linguistic digression begins---------
Today's "On Call," a weekly column in _The Register_ that
chronicles the trials of programmers and techs who are called on
to solve problems that not infrequently derive from somebody
having been stupid--or malicious.

https://www.theregister.com/2021/02/05/on_call/

In this episode, a high muckety-muck in Silicon Valley is
described as follows:

"'This kid tells me, the garage security gate doesn't work,
corporate mucky-muck is pissed he can't park his Mercedes in his
reserved space, and demanded IT mobilize all resources to fix
this RIGHT NOW.'

"We suspect that Jim meant the bigwig was jolly annoyed ("pissed
off") rather than on the vodkas, but then again, our grasp of
American can sometimes let us down."

But in this case, El Reg had guessed correctly.

The US and the UK have often been described as "two nations
separated by a common language." And we've only been separated
for four hundred years. Think of how many linguistic variants
were embedded in Hobbitic at the end of the Third Age, after
nearly three thousand years of dialectic borrowing.

Someone else, if desired, can research how the term "boffin" came
to mean "scientist" in mid-20th century UKian.

A quick google tells me, "Boffin is a British slang term for a
scientist, engineer, or other person engaged in technical or
scientific research and development. The World War II conception
of boffins as war-winning researchers lends the term a more
positive connotation than related terms such as nerd, egghead,
geek or spod."

-------------------------linguistic digression ends-----------


That's as far as I'm going to take it.

[Quadibloc]

On Friday, February 5, 2021 at 10:55:04 AM UTC-7, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:

> A quick google tells me, "Boffin is a British slang term for a
> scientist, engineer, or other person engaged in technical or
> scientific research and development. The World War II conception
> of boffins as war-winning researchers lends the term a more
> positive connotation than related terms such as nerd, egghead,
> geek or spod."

> That's as far as I'm going to take it.

You took it far enough to get the point of my witticism.

John Savard

[pete...@gmail.com]

'Count up, then down' wasn't always the rule. From the Lateran
Council of 1215, it was 'count back to a common ancestor'.

...and a common ancestor within four generations was regarded as
an impediment.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consanguinity#Christianity
https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04264a.htm

Under those rules, a mixed gender Bilbo and Frodo marriage would not have
been permitted.

pt

[Robert Carnegie]

There was an exchange of a ring between them...

I think I remember the line that one was the other's
first /and/ second cousin spoken in the BBC radio
serial by Gaffer Gamgee, in the pub. Perhaps not
reliable information. This may be a condensing into
dialogue of what "people said" about the Baggins
household. The Gaffer also mentions cautiously
that, I think, Bilbo or Frodo "learned Sam his letters",
which is greeted with scornful laughter. Letteracy
indeed, what use is that!

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <96b3b52e-4179-4635...@googlegroups.com>,

Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
>On Friday, 5 February 2021 at 15:40:04 UTC, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>> In article <qo1I3...@kithrup.com>,
>> Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:

>> *The third was Donnamira, who married Hugo Boffin; the chart
>> shows no children of that marriage, but the Boffins don't come
>> into the story except tangentially.
>
>There was an exchange of a ring between them...

Yes, but not a magical one.

>
>I think I remember the line that one was the other's
>first /and/ second cousin spoken in the BBC radio
>serial by Gaffer Gamgee, in the pub. Perhaps not
>reliable information.

Oh, I think it is. Hobbits were genealogy freaks, and could
recite their ancestors to a long way back.

>The Gaffer also mentions cautiously
>that, I think, Bilbo or Frodo "learned Sam his letters",
>which is greeted with scornful laughter.

Was this on the radio broadcast? The Gaffer's comment in the
book (which I can't get at at the moment: cats again) was on the
order of "He learned my Sam his letters, meaning no wrong by it,
and it might even do him good."

> Letteracy
>indeed, what use is that!

Many hobbits were literate; there was a well-organized postal
system. (Remember all the invitations that went out for Bilbo's
party, and all the answering notes that were variations on "Thank
you, I shall certainly come." Hobbits wrote lots of letters to
their friends and relations further away than a day's walk.

[pete...@gmail.com]

From the book: "Mr. Bilbo has learned him his letters – meaning
no harm, mark you, and I hope no harm will come of it. "

Also, from 'Concerning Hobbits': "It was in these early days,
doubtless, that the Hobbits learned their letters and began
to write after the manner of the Dúnedain, who had in their
turn long before learned the art from the Elves. "

Pt

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <0f34c06b-ee45-41a9...@googlegroups.com>,

Thank you for the _ipsissima verba_. I must assume your
bookcases are not constantly besieged by curious cats.

[Leif Roar Moldskred]

Kevrob <kev...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> I'd think a suitably long pig-sticker just the thing for
> measuring "social distancing," except that the local
> gendarmes might shoot first and ask questions later.
> A spear, glaive, billhook, pike.. would do the trick, also.
>

There was a photo of a poster put up by a fencing club going
the rounds on Facebook sometime last year that went something
along the lines of:

"Fencing is the perfect sport for the times:

1) Everybody always wears masks.

2) Evereybody always wears gloves.

3) If someone gets within 6' of you, you stab them!"

--
Leif Roar Moldskred

[Leif Roar Moldskred]

Alan Baker <notony...@no.no.no.no> wrote:
>
> Which is all well and good.
>
> But Dorothy goes out of her way to sneer at things.

You owe me a new irony gauge.

--
Leif Roar Moldskred

[Kevrob]

Well. that is certainly on point!

--
Kevin R

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <YrmdnUp_tvyXxYL9...@giganews.com>,

Leif Roar Moldskred <le...@huldreheim.Home> wrote:
>Kevrob <kev...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>>
>> I'd think a suitably long pig-sticker just the thing for
>> measuring "social distancing," except that the local
>> gendarmes might shoot first and ask questions later.
>> A spear, glaive, billhook, pike.. would do the trick, also.
>>
>
>There was a photo of a poster put up by a fencing club going
>the rounds on Facebook sometime last year that went something
>along the lines of:
>
>"Fencing is the perfect sport for the times:
>
>1) Everybody always wears masks.

Except, as we all know, wire mesh won't filter out viruses.

>2) Evereybody always wears gloves.
>
>3) If someone gets within 6' of you, you stab them!"

--

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <YrmdnUV_tvylxIL9...@giganews.com>,

Leif Roar Moldskred <le...@huldreheim.Home> wrote:

>Alan Baker <notony...@no.no.no.no> wrote:
>>
>> Which is all well and good.
>>
>> But Dorothy goes out of her way to sneer at things.
>
>You owe me a new irony gauge.

Actually, I only sneer at things that try to get in my face.

[pete...@gmail.com]

My iPad and its Kindle app are notably cat-free.

Pt

[J. Clarke]

On Sun, 7 Feb 2021 03:33:02 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
wrote:

>In article <YrmdnUp_tvyXxYL9...@giganews.com>,
>Leif Roar Moldskred <le...@huldreheim.Home> wrote:
>>Kevrob <kev...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I'd think a suitably long pig-sticker just the thing for
>>> measuring "social distancing," except that the local
>>> gendarmes might shoot first and ask questions later.
>>> A spear, glaive, billhook, pike.. would do the trick, also.
>>>
>>
>>There was a photo of a poster put up by a fencing club going
>>the rounds on Facebook sometime last year that went something
>>along the lines of:
>>
>>"Fencing is the perfect sport for the times:
>>
>>1) Everybody always wears masks.
>
>Except, as we all know, wire mesh won't filter out viruses.

Ahh, Dorothy, Dorothy, it was a good joke. Don't spoil it.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <57b374eb-545e-4601...@googlegroups.com>,

I'm happy for you. I own neither of those things; I had to work
on a Mac for several years, and I vowed never to touch anything
Apple again. (Which makes it funny when the scammer phones me
and says my Apple account has been compromised.....)

[J. Clarke]

Occasionally my Surface isn't. There is little program for Windows 95
called "neko". It implements a very small cat on screen. The cat
chases the mouse pointer. If the mouse pointer is stationary for a
while the cat exhibits signs of feline boredom and then goes to sleep
on top of it.

To my surprise it still works on 64-bit Windows 10, although the
little guy is running his little heart out keeping up with the mouse
on my 4K screen.

Here's one source for it. <https://neko.en.softonic.com/>

[Alan Baker]

On 2021-02-06 9:31 p.m., Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>> Thank you for the_ipsissima verba_. I must assume your

>>> bookcases are not constantly besieged by curious cats.
>> My iPad and its Kindle app are notably cat-free.
> I'm happy for you. I own neither of those things; I had to work
> on a Mac for several years, and I vowed never to touch anything
> Apple again. (Which makes it funny when the scammer phones me
> and says my Apple account has been compromised.....)

I'm sure it wasn't what you were used to and you did your very best to
give it a fair shake. :-)

There.

Civil enough for everyone?

:-)

[J. Clarke]

On Sun, 7 Feb 2021 05:31:57 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
wrote:

I was initially tempted by the new M1s, which are ARM-based and native
code is very, very fast. However a little bit of research revealed
that native code is rare and non-native code is flaky and the pieces
that give it the performance are proprietary and undocumented. So
that's the end of that interest. Potentially it's a Raspberry Pi on
steroids, practically it's a me-too Mac.

[Alan Baker]

Actually, the exact opposite is true.

Non-native code is almost entirely unflaky, and native code is getting
more and more common every day.

The new M1 MacBooks have a battery life approaching 18 hours, and the
MacBook Air doesn't even NEED a fan.

The reviews have been almost consistently raves.

[Kerr-Mudd,John]

On Sun, 07 Feb 2021 05:42:41 GMT, J. Clarke <jclarke...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Classic CPU waster and non-screensaver; I recall Sheep which was a
similar daft addon. It was written in Japanese so took a bit of figuring
out.

SHEEPE~.EXE 310k; looking into the exe shows it as "Screen Mate Poo"


--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.

[Gary R. Schmidt]

On 07/02/2021 14:33, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <YrmdnUp_tvyXxYL9...@giganews.com>,
> Leif Roar Moldskred <le...@huldreheim.Home> wrote:
>> Kevrob <kev...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I'd think a suitably long pig-sticker just the thing for
>>> measuring "social distancing," except that the local
>>> gendarmes might shoot first and ask questions later.
>>> A spear, glaive, billhook, pike.. would do the trick, also.
>>>
>>
>> There was a photo of a poster put up by a fencing club going
>> the rounds on Facebook sometime last year that went something
>> along the lines of:
>>
>> "Fencing is the perfect sport for the times:
>>
>> 1) Everybody always wears masks.
>
> Except, as we all know, wire mesh won't filter out viruses.
>

There was a period where Fencers used clear plastic masks - from 2000 to
2008 or so - which were banned because a lot of very sub-standard
plastic started being used, and a lot of them failed, none fatally,
IIRC. (I still have my epee gear, keep threatening to get back into it...)

>> 2) Evereybody always wears gloves.
>>
>> 3) If someone gets within 6' of you, you stab them!"
>

Cheers,
Gary B-)

--
Waiting for a new signature to suggest itself...

[Robert Carnegie]

On Sunday, 7 February 2021 at 03:45:03 UTC, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <YrmdnUp_tvyXxYL9...@giganews.com>,
> Leif Roar Moldskred <le...@huldreheim.Home> wrote:
> >Kevrob <kev...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> I'd think a suitably long pig-sticker just the thing for
> >> measuring "social distancing," except that the local
> >> gendarmes might shoot first and ask questions later.
> >> A spear, glaive, billhook, pike.. would do the trick, also.
> >>
> >
> >There was a photo of a poster put up by a fencing club going
> >the rounds on Facebook sometime last year that went something
> >along the lines of:
> >
> >"Fencing is the perfect sport for the times:
> >
> >1) Everybody always wears masks.
>
> Except, as we all know, wire mesh won't filter out viruses.

Dr Fauci recommended being two-face-masked. I think he's
kept bad company. (Or he is kept by a mask company...)

> >2) Evereybody always wears gloves.
> >
> >3) If someone gets within 6' of you, you stab them!"

I tried to think what game would suit our everyday
style of masks...

<https://shop.hasbro.com/en-us/product/classic-operation-game:03B9FF5E-5056-9047-F5FF-D57592C4E2FE>
(sic)

But he's wearing it wrong! Nose AND mouth, please!

<https://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/3737/operation>

This is worse! Clearly!

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <druu1g9vga6ftu03o...@4ax.com>,

Awwwwwww. I wonder if it works on Win7, to which I stubbornly
cling?

When Hal wakes up I'll ask him if I should try it out.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <XnsACCA694169...@144.76.35.252>,

Kerr-Mudd,John <nots...@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>On Sun, 07 Feb 2021 05:42:41 GMT, J. Clarke <jclarke...@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 6 Feb 2021 21:09:42 -0800 (PST), "pete...@gmail.com"
>> <pete...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Saturday, February 6, 2021 at 1:00:04 PM UTC-5, Dorothy J Heydt
>>>wrote:
>>>> >

>>>> Thank you for the _ipsissima verba_. I must assume your
>>>> bookcases are not constantly besieged by curious cats.
>>>
>>>My iPad and its Kindle app are notably cat-free.
>>
>> Occasionally my Surface isn't. There is little program for Windows 95
>> called "neko". It implements a very small cat on screen. The cat
>> chases the mouse pointer. If the mouse pointer is stationary for a
>> while the cat exhibits signs of feline boredom and then goes to sleep
>> on top of it.
>>
>> To my surprise it still works on 64-bit Windows 10, although the
>> little guy is running his little heart out keeping up with the mouse
>> on my 4K screen.
>>
>> Here's one source for it. <https://neko.en.softonic.com/>
>>
>Classic CPU waster and non-screensaver; I recall Sheep which was a
>similar daft addon. It was written in Japanese so took a bit of figuring
>out.
>
>SHEEPE~.EXE 310k; looking into the exe shows it as "Screen Mate Poo"
>

Back in the days when I was struggling with a Mac at work (vide
supra), there was a screensaver that had a little cat running
about. I don't think it followed the cursor; it was a
screensaver and would come up when the computer was up but not in
use. Anybody remember that one, and maybe its name?

While we're on screensavers, I worked for a while for another lab
that ran UNIX. There was a little cubbyhole down the hall from
me that had another UNIX machine and a printer to which all the
others sent their printout. The screensaver made endless
Lissajou patterns over a rather large screen.

The door to this room was kept locked. But one day I opened the
door and found a rather disheveled fellow sitting starring at the
screen. I don't know how he had gotten in, but I had to speak to
him several times to get his attention. Was he connected with
the department? Uhhhhh.... Was he a student at the University?
Uhhhh.... Was he connected with the University at all? Uh....

I finally got him sufficiently back into the real world that I
could tell him he had to leave, and he left. Then I called the
Campus Police, gave them a description, where and when I had seen
him, and I didn't *think* was dangerous, but perhaps they'd like
to look out for him and if they found him, politely usher him
off-Campus. I never heard back from them.

I don't know what he was high on; possibly just Lissajou
patterns.

[J. Clarke]

On Sun, 7 Feb 2021 16:08:21 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
wrote:

I can understand that. There is a program for Windows called
"Winamp", which plays music. At one time it was pretty much "the"
music app--I have that not only from my experience but also from a
concert cellist who graduated from Juilliard. It has associated with
it a "visualizer" capability. There are several plugins that can be
used with this capability. One of them is called "Milk Drop". It
basically performs fast fourier transform processing of the music and
then displays various screen images some of which are lissajous
figures. While it hasn't been updated in over a decade, it still runs
and seems to be able to make use of increased CPU power to expand its
repertoire (at least on my current machine, which by 2008 standards is
something of a monster, it shows me things that it never showed in
2008).

Milkdrop is hypnotic for me. I've never looked at it high, but if
CT ever gets around to modernizing its marijuana laws I am looking
forward to the experience.

[J. Clarke]

On Sun, 7 Feb 2021 15:45:22 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
wrote:

Yes, it does work on Windows 7.

Hal will probably want to give it a thorough examination--I do not
recall where I got it (probably the original developer) but I'm pretty
sure it was softonic, so no guarantees that it hasn't picked up a
disease along the way.

One gotcha--the manual is no longer usable--it was written for the old
help system that Microsoft no longer even pretends to support. You
don't need the manual for basic function.

Closing it is not obvious--it's an icon in the tray that is normally
on the lower right, or of course it can be killed from the task
manager.

[Sjouke Burry]

The link puts you in an endless loop and no download.......

[Paul S Person]

You may have lucked out.

Searching "softonic" on Bing brought up a Q&A box, with safety being a
concerin. The bottom line? "Some parts are safe and some are not".

Wheeeeee!!!!
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

[Kerr-Mudd,John]

On Mon, 08 Feb 2021 17:25:46 GMT, Paul S Person
<pspe...@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:

> On Sun, 07 Feb 2021 18:38:06 +0100, Sjouke Burry
> <burrynu...@ppllaanneett.nnll> wrote:
>
>>On 07.02.21 6:42, J. Clarke wrote:

[]

>>>
>>> Occasionally my Surface isn't. There is little program for Windows
>>> 95 called "neko". It implements a very small cat on screen. The
>>> cat chases the mouse pointer. If the mouse pointer is stationary
>>> for a while the cat exhibits signs of feline boredom and then goes
>>> to sleep on top of it.
>>>
>>> To my surprise it still works on 64-bit Windows 10, although the
>>> little guy is running his little heart out keeping up with the mouse
>>> on my 4K screen.
>>>
>>> Here's one source for it. <https://neko.en.softonic.com/>
>>
>>The link puts you in an endless loop and no download.......
>
> You may have lucked out.
>
> Searching "softonic" on Bing brought up a Q&A box, with safety being a
> concerin. The bottom line? "Some parts are safe and some are not".
>
> Wheeeeee!!!!

Find it elsewhere then;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neko_(software)