SFBC 1969

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James Nicoll

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Mar 16, 2003, 4:05:30 PM3/16/03
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list courtesy of Andrew Wheeler

1969
January THE MERCY MEN by Alan E. Nourse

As previously established, I never read this. Or so I would
have claimed before I looked at that shelf in the SF MMPK room to
discover copies of -most- of the Nourse I claimed I never read. Is
there an amnesia ray in here or what?


February HAWKSBILL STATION by Robert Silverberg

This is an expanded version of the novella, a tale about
political prisoners safey stored in sex segregated prisons in the
distant past, apparently irretrievable by the authoritarian American
government of the 21 century. A new prisoner arrives, whose behavior
is quite odd, even by the standards of a community where men try to
build women out of sticks and seaweed (Unsuccessfully, in case you
wonder).

I reread this a while back and found it competently written
but very dated in its treatment of the sexes. It seems like men have
a genetic inability to do housework in this world, which makes me
wonder just how gamey that -1 Billion prison is.


March THE LION OF COMARRE & AGAINST THE FALL OF NIGHT by Arthur C. Clarke

I'm not sure I ever read Lion. Night is one of Clarke's better
books, in which one of the very infrequent new people in a society of
immortals triggers a phase change by insisting on asking certain questions.


April SEVEN CONQUESTS by Poul Anderson

Contents

Foreword
Kings Who Die
Wildcat
Cold Victory
Inside Straight
Details
License
Strange Bedfellows


Oddly, few of these left any kind of lasting impression on me.
Straight is about a culture of would-be conquerers running into a corrupt
world of gamblers. I think Kings is one of Anderson's stories about the
glories of small societies and the eeeeeeevils of large ones. I'm saving
a rant for a particular Maurai story.


May NOVA by Saumel R. Delany

Never read this. Allegedly it was bounced from ASF on the
grounds that John Campbell didn't think his readers wanted stories
with black protagonists.


June A SPECTRE IS HAUNTING TEXAS by Fritz Leiber

The protagonist of this tale is a nearly skeletal man from
a free fall community, who visits a post-WWIII America dominated by
demented Uber-Texans. He turns out to be the right man at the right
time to trigger a social revolution.

I have fond memories of this one although I must admit I
don't think I have reread it in 25 years.


July STAND ON ZANZIBAR by John Brunner

One of Brunner's best books, this borrows a technoque from Dos
Passos's USA Trilogy to show a 2010 world crammed to the gills with
humans.

Portions of this book (treatment of the sexes) date it to a
particular time. Other parts (terrorism as a hobby) seem less dated.


OMNIVORE by Piers Anthony

I missed this.

August THE DEMON BREED by James Schmitz

Aliens stage a probing raid into human territory and encounter
two non-psionic but otherwise talented Schmitz protagonists. Poor alien
bastards.


THE POLLINATORS OF EDEN by John Boyd

The amnesia ray seems to have zapped my memories of this one.


September UBIK by Philip K. Dick

Never read this.


WORLD'S BEST SF: 1969 edited by Donald Wollheim and Terry Carr

Contents:
Introduction (Damon Knight)
Street of Dreams, Feet of Clay (Robert Sheckley)
Backtracked (Burt K. Filer)
Kyrie (Poul Anderson)
Going Down Smooth (Robert Silverberg)
The Worm that Flies (Brian W. Aldiss)
Masks (Damon Knight)
Time Considered as a Helix of Semi-Precious Stones (Samuel R. Delany)
The Cloudbuilders (Colin McKapp)
Hemeac (E.G. Von Wald)
This Grand Caress (R.A. Lafferty)
A Visit to Cleveland General (Sydney J. Van Scyoc)
The Selchey Kids (Laurence Yep)
Welcome to the Monkey House (Kurt Vonnegut)
The Dance of the Changer and the Three (Terry Carr)
Sword Game (H.H. Hollis)
Total Environment (Brian W. Aldiss)
The Square Root of Brain (Fritz Leiber)
Starsong (Fred Saberhagen)
Fear Hound (Katherine McLean)


Man, was I out of touch with 1960s short fiction. I've read
Kyrie and that's it.


Fall FIVE TO TWELVE by Edmund Cooper

And in the general pattern of total ignorance, I missed this one

THE ILLUSTRATED MAN by Ray Bradbury

and this one

October THE LEFT HAND OF DARKNESS by Ursula K. Le Guin

But not this one. This is set in the Ekumen, on a world
where ancient Hainish genetic engineers gave the hominid inhabitants
a sex changing lifestyle. Those wacky Hainish. I've always suspected
the Enemy of later books was some planet of Hainish victims seeking
payback.


ORBIT 5 edited by Damon Knight

Contents:

Somerset Dreams (Kate Wilhelm)
The Roads, the Roads, the Beautiful Roads (Avram Davidson)
Look, You Think You've Got Troubles (Carol Carr)
Winter's King (Ursula K. Le Guin)
The Time Machine (Langdon Jones)
Configuration of the North Shore (R.A. Lafferty)
Paul's Treehouse (Gene Wolfe)
The Price (C. Davis Belcher)
The Rose-Bowl Pluto Hypothesis (Philip Latham)
Winston (Kit Reed)
The History Makers (James Sallis)
The Big Flash (Norman Spinrad)


I -think- the Spinrad is an end of the world story but otherwise
this is clearly an anthology I missed.


ANALOG 6 edited by John W. Campbell (Alternate)

"Scientists Are Stupid!" (John W. Campbell, Jr.)
Coincidence Day (John Brunner)
The Adventure of the Extraterrestrial (Mack Reynolds)
Fighting Division (Randall Garrett)
Computers Don't Argue (Gordon R. Dickson)
Say it with FLowers (Winston P. Sanders)
Mission "Red Clash" (Joe Poyer)
Countercommandment (Patrick Meadows)
Balanced Ecology (James Schmitz)
Overproof (Jonathan Blake MacKenzie)

Anyone read the intro? Any good or just another entry in the
John 'W stands for Wacko' Campbell files?

I find it amazing, given the history between JWC and Garrett
(Garrett married Campbell's ex) that the two still maintained a
professional relationship.


November THE JAGGED ORBIT by John Brunner

This was one of the Morose Quartet by Brunner. In this case
exploitation and encouragement of paranoia to boost arms sales unexpectedly
turns out to have drawbacks.

If I recall corrently, the English language version has 100
chapters and the first German translation had 33. Some detail was lost.


THE FUNCO FILES by Burt Cole

Never even heard of this one.


NEBULA AWARD STORIES TWO edited by Brian Aldiss & Harry
Harrison (Alternate)

Introduction (Aldiss & Harrison)
The Secret Place (Richard M. McKenna)
Light of Other Days (Bob Shaw)
Who Needs Insurance? (Robin S. Scott)
Among the Hairy Earthmen (R.A. Lafferty)
The Last Castle (Jack Vance)
Day Million (Fred Pohl)
When I Was Miss Dow (Sonya Dorman)
Call Him Lord (Gordon R. Dickson)
In the Imagican (George H. Smith)
We Can Remeber It For You Wholesale (Philip K. Dick)
Man in his Time (Brain W. Aldiss)
Afterword: The Year in Science Fiction (Aldiss & Harrison)
Nebula Awards 1966 and Roll of Honor

This looks pretty solid. 'Slow Glass' (a transparent material
whose speed of light is so slow light takes years to cross a few mm of
it) was hailed by Campbell as one of the few original idea he had seen
in the 1960s. "Day Million" is an attempt to show how odd the future will
be. "Call Him Lord" is about how one monarchy maintains QC on the heirs.
"We Can Remember It For You Wholesale" is the basis for the first ten
minutes of "Total Recall".

Back in those days, getting a Nebula nomination stood for something
aside from finding ten saps to nominate your work, I guess.


December NIGHTFALL AND OTHER STORIES by Isaac Asimov

Contains:

Nightfall
Green Patches
Hostess
Breeds There a Man...?
The C-Chute
"In a Good Cause--"
What If...
Sally
Flies
Nobody Here But--
It's Such a Beautiful Day
Strikebreaker
Insert Knob A into Hole B
The Up-to-Date Sorcerer
Unto the Fourth Generation
What Is This Thing Called Love
The Machine That Won the War
My Son, The Physicist!
Eyes Do More Than See
Segregationist


I think this is one of the better collections of Asimov short
stories. Mind you, I don't recall a lot of these but the ones I do recall
I recall fondly.



DEATHSTAR VOYAGE by Ian Wallace

I missed this.


THE BEST FROM FANTASY & SCIENCE FICTION, 16TH SERIES edited
by Edward L. Ferman (Alternate)


Contents:

Introduction (Ed Ferman)
Luana (Gilbert Thomas)
And Madly Teach (Lloyd Biggle, Jr.)
Matog (Joan Patricia Basch)
The Key (Isaac Asimov)
The Seven Wonders of the Universe (Mose Mallette)
A Few Kindren Spirits (John Christopher)
We Can Remember It for You Wholesale (Philip K. Dick)
Three for Carnival (John Shepley)
Experiment in Autobiography (Ron Goulart)
The Adjusted (Kenneth Bulmer)
The Age of Invention (Norman Spinrad)
Apology to Inky (Robert M. Green, Jr)
This Moment of the Storm (Roger Zelazny)
Micky Finn (Doris Pitkin Buck)
Imaginary Numbers in a Real Garden (Gerald Jonas)
Letter to a Tyrant King (Bill Butler)
Memo to a Secretary (Pat de Graw)
Six Cartoons (Gahan Wilson)


I missed most of these.

Gahan Wilson. Hrm. I wonder what a collaboration between him
and Callahan would be like?

--
"About this time, I started getting depressed. Probably the late
hour and the silence. I decided to put on some music.
Boy, that Billie Holiday can sing."
_Why I Hate Saturn_, Kyle Baker

Chuck Bridgeland

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Mar 16, 2003, 6:00:46 PM3/16/03
to
On 16 Mar 2003 16:05:30 -0500, James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:


> OMNIVORE by Piers Anthony
>
> I missed this.

Wired up secret agent fighting an _extremely_ energetic alien fungoid.

> THE POLLINATORS OF EDEN by John Boyd
>
> The amnesia ray seems to have zapped my memories of this one.

Sex with orchids will get us through the end of the universe which will
happen historically soon.

> October THE LEFT HAND OF DARKNESS by Ursula K. Le Guin
>
> But not this one. This is set in the Ekumen, on a world
> where ancient Hainish genetic engineers gave the hominid inhabitants
> a sex changing lifestyle. Those wacky Hainish. I've always suspected
> the Enemy of later books was some planet of Hainish victims seeking
> payback.
>
>
> ORBIT 5 edited by Damon Knight
>
> Contents:
>
> Somerset Dreams (Kate Wilhelm)
> The Roads, the Roads, the Beautiful Roads (Avram Davidson)
> Look, You Think You've Got Troubles (Carol Carr)
> Winter's King (Ursula K. Le Guin)

Takes place on the same planet Winter as _left hand of darkness_. Some
problems of political succession. The Hainish haul off the king|queen for
training, and return (him, her, whatever) 20 years of realtime later.


--
War. Win, loose or draw, we get a depression afterwards. 2004 or
2008, we get President Hillary and her Homeland Security brownshirts.
chuck bridgeland, chuckbri at computerdyn dot com
http://www.essex1.com/people/chuckbri

aRJay

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Mar 16, 2003, 7:27:14 PM3/16/03
to
In article <b52ouq$cot$1...@panix1.panix.com>, James Nicoll
<jdni...@panix.com> writes

>Fall FIVE TO TWELVE by Edmund Cooper
>
> And in the general pattern of total ignorance, I missed this one

Set in a "future"[1] where there are 5 males born to 12 females, the
protagonist is following heart surgery forced into an act of rebellion.
Typical Cooper things don't necessarily work out as expected by the
protagonists or the readers.

[1] I don't recall if the year was given but it is quite possible that
its future is now our past.
--
aRJay
"In this great and creatorless universe, where so much beautiful has
come to be out of the chance interactions of the basic properties of
matter, it seems so important that we love one another."
- Lucy Kemnitzer

Bill & Sue Miller

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Mar 16, 2003, 9:31:51 PM3/16/03
to
James Nicoll wrote:

> April SEVEN CONQUESTS by Poul Anderson
>
> Contents
>
> Foreword
> Kings Who Die
> Wildcat
> Cold Victory
> Inside Straight
> Details
> License
> Strange Bedfellows
>
>
> Oddly, few of these left any kind of lasting impression on me.
> Straight is about a culture of would-be conquerers running into a corrupt
> world of gamblers. I think Kings is one of Anderson's stories about the
> glories of small societies and the eeeeeeevils of large ones

I think Kings is about battling spacemen - the single combat warriors of the
future.

> May NOVA by Saumel R. Delany
>

My favorite Delany, which isn't exactly a ringing endorsement. But readable,
unlike many of his novels. His short stuff in _Driftglass_ I like.

>
> June A SPECTRE IS HAUNTING TEXAS by Fritz Leiber
>

Pretty funny, especially if you've moved into Texas.

>
> WORLD'S BEST SF: 1969 edited by Donald Wollheim and Terry Carr
>

This is an excellent series of 'year's bests', especially until Wollheim and Carr
split up and started a series each. It took me years to track down all the
volumes in the pre-Internet years, but I finally got them all.

> THE ILLUSTRATED MAN by Ray Bradbury

I'd put this in his top 3 with _Martian Chronicles_ and _Something Wicked_.
Total fantasy, so it tickles me that my old paperback is proudly emblazoned with
"The Worlds' Greatest Living Science Fiction Writer".

Bill
--
Home: wbmi...@houston.rr.com
Work: william....@jsc.nasa.gov
Homepage: http://home.houston.rr.com/wbmiller3


Chuck Bridgeland

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Mar 16, 2003, 10:38:55 PM3/16/03
to
On Sun, 16 Mar 2003 19:29:46 -0500, Jon Meltzer <> wrote:

> On Sun, 16 Mar 2003 17:00:46 -0600, Chuck Bridgeland
><chuc...@computerdyn.com> wrote:
>
>>On 16 Mar 2003 16:05:30 -0500, James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> OMNIVORE by Piers Anthony
>>>
>>> I missed this.
>>
>>Wired up secret agent fighting an _extremely_ energetic alien fungoid.
>
> Plus unconsummated (at least, in this book) menage a trois.
>
> Not a bad book - was before the Brain Eater got Piers.


I never did get around to reading the other two. My recollection (from 30
years ago) is that there was a lot more going on in the book than my
flippant summary.

Richard Horton

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Mar 16, 2003, 11:54:40 PM3/16/03
to
On 16 Mar 2003 16:05:30 -0500, jdni...@panix.com (James Nicoll)
wrote:

>
> list courtesy of Andrew Wheeler
>
>1969
>January THE MERCY MEN by Alan E. Nourse
>
> As previously established, I never read this. Or so I would
>have claimed before I looked at that shelf in the SF MMPK room to
>discover copies of -most- of the Nourse I claimed I never read. Is
>there an amnesia ray in here or what?
>

I do remember reading and enjoying this when I was, er, a juvenile.
But I don't remember anything about it.

>
>May NOVA by Saumel R. Delany
>
> Never read this. Allegedly it was bounced from ASF on the
>grounds that John Campbell didn't think his readers wanted stories
>with black protagonists.
>

Far and away my favorite Delany novel.

>
>June A SPECTRE IS HAUNTING TEXAS by Fritz Leiber
>
> The protagonist of this tale is a nearly skeletal man from
>a free fall community, who visits a post-WWIII America dominated by
>demented Uber-Texans. He turns out to be the right man at the right
>time to trigger a social revolution.
>
> I have fond memories of this one although I must admit I
>don't think I have reread it in 25 years.
>

AOL. Which means I really ought to reread it.

>
> WORLD'S BEST SF: 1969 edited by Donald Wollheim and Terry Carr
>
> Contents:
> Introduction (Damon Knight)
> Street of Dreams, Feet of Clay (Robert Sheckley)
> Backtracked (Burt K. Filer)
> Kyrie (Poul Anderson)
> Going Down Smooth (Robert Silverberg)
> The Worm that Flies (Brian W. Aldiss)
> Masks (Damon Knight)
> Time Considered as a Helix of Semi-Precious Stones (Samuel R. Delany)
> The Cloudbuilders (Colin McKapp)
> Hemeac (E.G. Von Wald)
> This Grand Caress (R.A. Lafferty)
> A Visit to Cleveland General (Sydney J. Van Scyoc)
> The Selchey Kids (Laurence Yep)
> Welcome to the Monkey House (Kurt Vonnegut)
> The Dance of the Changer and the Three (Terry Carr)
> Sword Game (H.H. Hollis)
> Total Environment (Brian W. Aldiss)
> The Square Root of Brain (Fritz Leiber)
> Starsong (Fred Saberhagen)
> Fear Hound (Katherine McLean)
>
>
> Man, was I out of touch with 1960s short fiction. I've read
>Kyrie and that's it.
>

"Masks" is one of Knight's best stories, and "Time Considered as a
Helix of Semi-Precious Stones" is one of Delany's best stories. I've
been meaning to reread the latter since seeing Adam Roberts's essay
asserting that it is based on a Wallace Stevens poem. Oh, and "The
Dance of the Changer and the Three" is a very good story about
icomprehensible aliens.

>
> ORBIT 5 edited by Damon Knight
>
> Contents:
>
> Somerset Dreams (Kate Wilhelm)
> The Roads, the Roads, the Beautiful Roads (Avram Davidson)
> Look, You Think You've Got Troubles (Carol Carr)
> Winter's King (Ursula K. Le Guin)
> The Time Machine (Langdon Jones)
> Configuration of the North Shore (R.A. Lafferty)
> Paul's Treehouse (Gene Wolfe)
> The Price (C. Davis Belcher)
> The Rose-Bowl Pluto Hypothesis (Philip Latham)
> Winston (Kit Reed)
> The History Makers (James Sallis)
> The Big Flash (Norman Spinrad)
>
>
> I -think- the Spinrad is an end of the world story but otherwise
>this is clearly an anthology I missed.
>

"Winter's King" is set on Karhide, the planet of _Left Hand of
Darkness_. It's a great story. I'm pretty sure I've read the whole
book, but I really can't remember the other stories.

>
> ANALOG 6 edited by John W. Campbell (Alternate)
>
> "Scientists Are Stupid!" (John W. Campbell, Jr.)
> Coincidence Day (John Brunner)
> The Adventure of the Extraterrestrial (Mack Reynolds)
> Fighting Division (Randall Garrett)
> Computers Don't Argue (Gordon R. Dickson)
> Say it with FLowers (Winston P. Sanders)
> Mission "Red Clash" (Joe Poyer)
> Countercommandment (Patrick Meadows)
> Balanced Ecology (James Schmitz)
> Overproof (Jonathan Blake MacKenzie)
>
>
> Anyone read the intro? Any good or just another entry in the
>John 'W stands for Wacko' Campbell files?
>
> I find it amazing, given the history between JWC and Garrett
>(Garrett married Campbell's ex) that the two still maintained a
>professional relationship.
>

Was Garrett the reason she became an ex?

McKenzie, by the way, is also Garrett. (And Sanders is Anderson, but
I'm sure you know that.)

It is pretty good, which is a bit odd considering it was to some
extent a collection of leftovers. So the real question is "Why didn't
Asimov collect stories like "Nightfall", "C-Chute", "Breeds There a
Man?", and "Green Patches" earlier?"

> THE BEST FROM FANTASY & SCIENCE FICTION, 16TH SERIES edited
>by Edward L. Ferman (Alternate)
>
>
> Contents:
>
> Introduction (Ed Ferman)
> Luana (Gilbert Thomas)
> And Madly Teach (Lloyd Biggle, Jr.)
> Matog (Joan Patricia Basch)
> The Key (Isaac Asimov)
> The Seven Wonders of the Universe (Mose Mallette)
> A Few Kindren Spirits (John Christopher)
> We Can Remember It for You Wholesale (Philip K. Dick)
> Three for Carnival (John Shepley)
> Experiment in Autobiography (Ron Goulart)
> The Adjusted (Kenneth Bulmer)
> The Age of Invention (Norman Spinrad)
> Apology to Inky (Robert M. Green, Jr)
> This Moment of the Storm (Roger Zelazny)
> Micky Finn (Doris Pitkin Buck)
> Imaginary Numbers in a Real Garden (Gerald Jonas)
> Letter to a Tyrant King (Bill Butler)
> Memo to a Secretary (Pat de Graw)
> Six Cartoons (Gahan Wilson)
>
>
> I missed most of these.

The Dick story is very good, and it is also the loose inspiration for
the Arnold movie TOTAL RECALL. I also quite like the Zelazny story --
most of the others I have forgotten.


--
Rich Horton | Stable Email: mailto://richard...@sff.net
Home Page: http://www.sff.net/people/richard.horton
Also visit SF Site (http://www.sfsite.com) and Tangent Online (http://www.tangentonline.com)

Lawrence Watt-Evans

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Mar 17, 2003, 12:17:42 AM3/17/03
to
On Mon, 17 Mar 2003 00:27:14 +0000, aRJay <aR...@escore.demon.co.uk>
wrote:

>In article <b52ouq$cot$1...@panix1.panix.com>, James Nicoll
><jdni...@panix.com> writes
>>Fall FIVE TO TWELVE by Edmund Cooper
>>
>> And in the general pattern of total ignorance, I missed this one
>
>Set in a "future"[1] where there are 5 males born to 12 females, the
>protagonist is following heart surgery forced into an act of rebellion.
>Typical Cooper things don't necessarily work out as expected by the
>protagonists or the readers.

Um... it also has the single stupidest misunderstanding of basic
genetics I've ever encountered in a professionally-published work, and
not as a passing element but as central to the ending.

It was the first book I ever literally threw at the wall, possibly
excluding incidents I don't remember from toddlerhood.


--

The Misenchanted Page: http://www.sff.net/people/LWE/ Last update 3/1/03
My latest novel is ITHANALIN'S RESTORATION, published by Tor.

Lawrence Watt-Evans

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Mar 17, 2003, 12:28:17 AM3/17/03
to
On 16 Mar 2003 16:05:30 -0500, jdni...@panix.com (James Nicoll)
wrote:

>September UBIK by Philip K. Dick
>
> Never read this.

It may have the single slipperiest reality of any of Dick's novels,
which is of course saying quite a lot.

> WORLD'S BEST SF: 1969 edited by Donald Wollheim and Terry Carr
>
> Contents:
> Introduction (Damon Knight)
> Street of Dreams, Feet of Clay (Robert Sheckley)
> Backtracked (Burt K. Filer)
> Kyrie (Poul Anderson)
> Going Down Smooth (Robert Silverberg)
> The Worm that Flies (Brian W. Aldiss)
> Masks (Damon Knight)
> Time Considered as a Helix of Semi-Precious Stones (Samuel R. Delany)
> The Cloudbuilders (Colin McKapp)
> Hemeac (E.G. Von Wald)
> This Grand Caress (R.A. Lafferty)
> A Visit to Cleveland General (Sydney J. Van Scyoc)
> The Selchey Kids (Laurence Yep)
> Welcome to the Monkey House (Kurt Vonnegut)
> The Dance of the Changer and the Three (Terry Carr)
> Sword Game (H.H. Hollis)
> Total Environment (Brian W. Aldiss)
> The Square Root of Brain (Fritz Leiber)
> Starsong (Fred Saberhagen)
> Fear Hound (Katherine McLean)
>
>
> Man, was I out of touch with 1960s short fiction. I've read
>Kyrie and that's it.

Wow, really? I remember the Silverberg, the Knight, the Delany, the
Vonnegut, and the Carr (which was incredibly, wonderfully brilliant).

>Fall FIVE TO TWELVE by Edmund Cooper
>
> And in the general pattern of total ignorance, I missed this one

Just as well.

> THE ILLUSTRATED MAN by Ray Bradbury
>
> and this one

Seriously?

> ORBIT 5 edited by Damon Knight
>
> Contents:
>

> The Big Flash (Norman Spinrad)
>
> I -think- the Spinrad is an end of the world story but otherwise
>this is clearly an anthology I missed.

"The Big Flash" involves deliberately using a psychedelic rock 'n'
roll band to start World War III. My father _hated_ it, but I thought
it was a pretty darn good story, and I'm not exactly a big fan of
Spinrad, generally speaking.

>November THE JAGGED ORBIT by John Brunner
>
> This was one of the Morose Quartet by Brunner. In this case
>exploitation and encouragement of paranoia to boost arms sales unexpectedly
>turns out to have drawbacks.

Really? Wow. I read this, but don't remember most of it, and every
time I hear someone describe it, it not only sounds as if they read a
different novel from the one I read, it doesn't sound like any of the
other descriptions I've heard, either.

> THE FUNCO FILES by Burt Cole
>
> Never even heard of this one.

I have my mother's copy somewhere, in paperback. Haven't read it
myself, though.

> Back in those days, getting a Nebula nomination stood for something
>aside from finding ten saps to nominate your work, I guess.

Ten saps gets you on the _preliminary_ ballot; an actual nomination
still requires wangling a few dozen votes.

Robert A. Woodward

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Mar 17, 2003, 1:25:49 AM3/17/03
to
In article <b52ouq$cot$1...@panix1.panix.com>,
jdni...@panix.com (James Nicoll) wrote:

> list courtesy of Andrew Wheeler
>
> 1969

<SNIP>


>
> April SEVEN CONQUESTS by Poul Anderson
>
> Contents
>
> Foreword
> Kings Who Die
> Wildcat
> Cold Victory
> Inside Straight
> Details
> License
> Strange Bedfellows
>
>
> Oddly, few of these left any kind of lasting impression on me.
> Straight is about a culture of would-be conquerers running into a corrupt
> world of gamblers. I think Kings is one of Anderson's stories about the
> glories of small societies and the eeeeeeevils of large ones. I'm saving
> a rant for a particular Maurai story.
>

IIRC, the small state is beautiful story was "No Truce with Kings"
(which Maurai story? the one that they suppressed an industrical
revolution?).

>
> May NOVA by Saumel R. Delany
>
> Never read this. Allegedly it was bounced from ASF on the
> grounds that John Campbell didn't think his readers wanted stories
> with black protagonists.
>

There was a couple of stories by Mack Reynolds in Analog in the early
60s that had a black protagonist ... checking ... "Black Man's Burden"
(Dec 1961-Jan 1962) and "Border, Breed, nor Birth" (July 1962-Aug 1962).
They didn't have the covers, but the interior illustrations, while
initially coy, finally do come clean (I had forgotten that the titles
were Kipling quotes).

<SNIP>


>
> OMNIVORE by Piers Anthony
>
> I missed this.
>

The first in what turned into a trilogy - usual Piers arc of quality
applies.

> August THE DEMON BREED by James Schmitz
>
> Aliens stage a probing raid into human territory and encounter
> two non-psionic but otherwise talented Schmitz protagonists. Poor alien
> bastards.

You didn't mention the giant otters, they got in their licks as well.

<SNIP>


>
> ANALOG 6 edited by John W. Campbell (Alternate)
>
> "Scientists Are Stupid!" (John W. Campbell, Jr.)
> Coincidence Day (John Brunner)
> The Adventure of the Extraterrestrial (Mack Reynolds)
> Fighting Division (Randall Garrett)
> Computers Don't Argue (Gordon R. Dickson)
> Say it with FLowers (Winston P. Sanders)
> Mission "Red Clash" (Joe Poyer)
> Countercommandment (Patrick Meadows)
> Balanced Ecology (James Schmitz)
> Overproof (Jonathan Blake MacKenzie)
>
>
> Anyone read the intro? Any good or just another entry in the
> John 'W stands for Wacko' Campbell files?
>

I have searched several years of Analog without finding it, try again
tommorow.

> I find it amazing, given the history between JWC and Garrett
> (Garrett married Campbell's ex) that the two still maintained a
> professional relationship.
>

George O. Smith married Dona Stuart after she divorced Campbell.

<SNKP>

--
Robert Woodward <robe...@drizzle.com>
<http://www.drizzle.com/~robertaw

Mike Van Pelt

unread,
Mar 17, 2003, 4:07:54 AM3/17/03
to
In article <b52ouq$cot$1...@panix1.panix.com>,

James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
>September UBIK by Philip K. Dick
>
> Never read this.

Is this a report or a recommendation? :-)

(If it's a recommendation, I agree; I wish I had never
read this thing.)

> The Dance of the Changer and the Three (Terry Carr)

Interaction with plasma life-forms (IIRC) in the
very difuse star Epsilon Auriga.

> ANALOG 6 edited by John W. Campbell (Alternate)

> The Adventure of the Extraterrestrial (Mack Reynolds)

Sherlock Holmes vs. a space alien.

> Computers Don't Argue (Gordon R. Dickson)

Very nasty book club computer foul-up that gets worse with
every attempt to correct it.

--
The only meaningful memorial, the only one that will really count, will be when there are streets, tunnels, living and working quarters named after each of those astronauts--and those who will yet die in this effort--in permanently occupied stations on the moon, on Mars, in the asteroid belt, and beyond.
-- Bruce F. Webster

Nancy Lebovitz

unread,
Mar 17, 2003, 8:52:58 AM3/17/03
to
In article <b52ouq$cot$1...@panix1.panix.com>,
James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
>
>July STAND ON ZANZIBAR by John Brunner
>
> One of Brunner's best books, this borrows a technoque from Dos
>Passos's USA Trilogy to show a 2010 world crammed to the gills with
>humans.
>
> Portions of this book (treatment of the sexes) date it to a
>particular time. Other parts (terrorism as a hobby) seem less dated.
>
I found the happy ending very disappointing, but perhaps I place too
high a value on choice.

> WORLD'S BEST SF: 1969 edited by Donald Wollheim and Terry Carr
>

> Kyrie (Poul Anderson)

IIRC, the pain of being telepathically linked to an alien who's falling
into a black hole.

> Time Considered as a Helix of Semi-Precious Stones (Samuel R. Delany)

That one never clicked for me, even though it seems to be considered a
classic. Some cool ideas.

> This Grand Caress (R.A. Lafferty)

"This Grand Carcase". I can't imagine what story Lafferty might write that
could be titled "The Grand Caress". The mind boogie-woogies.

As for the actual story, I'm pretty sure that it's about a vampiric
computer, and includes a company called Tell and Gahn. It should have
shown up on the puns in sf thread--and I count it as a good pun and
a good story.

> ORBIT 5 edited by Damon Knight
>
> Contents:
>

> Configuration of the North Shore (R.A. Lafferty)

A Lafferty that even I don't remember, but I do recommend _Lafferty
in Orbit_ (all the Lafferty stories that were published in Orbit) for
people who don't like that normal New Wave stuff.

> The Big Flash (Norman Spinrad)
>
> I -think- the Spinrad is an end of the world story but otherwise
>this is clearly an anthology I missed.

WWIII is induced by hypnotic rock music. I don't remember whether
there are clues that the rock band really is the four horsemen of
the apocalypse, but it's as good an explanation as the idea that
it's fun to write about people in the hands of gaudy media stuff.

> ANALOG 6 edited by John W. Campbell (Alternate)
>

> Computers Don't Argue (Gordon R. Dickson)

IIRC, the one about the man who's executed as a result of computer
errors.

>November THE JAGGED ORBIT by John Brunner
>
> This was one of the Morose Quartet by Brunner. In this case

I think of them as Brunner's Big Social Problem Books.

>exploitation and encouragement of paranoia to boost arms sales unexpectedly
>turns out to have drawbacks.

The psychiatrist who likes keeping people imprisoned strikes me as
a good way of understanding John Ashcroft.

>
> NEBULA AWARD STORIES TWO edited by Brian Aldiss & Harry
>Harrison (Alternate)
>

> Among the Hairy Earthmen (R.A. Lafferty)

Alien children playing with humans--they claim that history has much
more style when they're manipulating it.

--
Nancy Lebovitz na...@netaxs.com www.nancybuttons.com
Now, with bumper stickers

Using your turn signal is not "giving information to the enemy"

Michael Alan Chary

unread,
Mar 17, 2003, 9:17:20 AM3/17/03
to
In article <WTcda.4442$jA2.4...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,

Lawrence Watt-Evans <lawr...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>On Mon, 17 Mar 2003 00:27:14 +0000, aRJay <aR...@escore.demon.co.uk>
>wrote:
>
>>In article <b52ouq$cot$1...@panix1.panix.com>, James Nicoll
>><jdni...@panix.com> writes
>>>Fall FIVE TO TWELVE by Edmund Cooper
>>>
>>> And in the general pattern of total ignorance, I missed this one
>>
>>Set in a "future"[1] where there are 5 males born to 12 females, the
>>protagonist is following heart surgery forced into an act of rebellion.
>>Typical Cooper things don't necessarily work out as expected by the
>>protagonists or the readers.
>
>Um... it also has the single stupidest misunderstanding of basic
>genetics I've ever encountered in a professionally-published work, and
>not as a passing element but as central to the ending.
>
>It was the first book I ever literally threw at the wall, possibly
>excluding incidents I don't remember from toddlerhood.


Okay, seriously, you, Goldfarb, Maroney and Schiffer, both here and on the
comics boards: either tell us what you're talking about or don't bring it
up. *WHAT* stupid genetics mistake?

--
"There's only one god / He is the sun god / Ra! - Ra! - Ra!"
--ancient Egyptian religious chant, attrib. to Robert Anton Wilson
The Dell dude was arrested for pot. He should have known better.
Pot's a Gateway drug.

James Nicoll

unread,
Mar 17, 2003, 10:06:34 AM3/17/03
to
In article <jycda.237$H07...@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com>,

Richard Horton <rrho...@prodigy.net> wrote:
>>
>> I find it amazing, given the history between JWC and Garrett
>>(Garrett married Campbell's ex) that the two still maintained a
>>professional relationship.
>>
>Was Garrett the reason she became an ex?


I think LRon was, in the sense that JWC's involvement with
dianetics split them up. I would go check his letters but the thought
of rereading them gives me a headache.

James Nicoll

unread,
Mar 17, 2003, 10:08:20 AM3/17/03
to
In article <robertaw-6009FC...@news.fu-berlin.de>,

Robert A. Woodward <robe...@drizzle.com> wrote:
>In article <b52ouq$cot$1...@panix1.panix.com>,
> jdni...@panix.com (James Nicoll) wrote:
>
>> list courtesy of Andrew Wheeler
>>
>> 1969
><SNIP>
>>
>> April SEVEN CONQUESTS by Poul Anderson
>>
>> Contents
>>
>> Foreword
>> Kings Who Die
>> Wildcat
>> Cold Victory
>> Inside Straight
>> Details
>> License
>> Strange Bedfellows
>>
>>
>> Oddly, few of these left any kind of lasting impression on me.
>> Straight is about a culture of would-be conquerers running into a corrupt
>> world of gamblers. I think Kings is one of Anderson's stories about the
>> glories of small societies and the eeeeeeevils of large ones. I'm saving
>> a rant for a particular Maurai story.
>>
>
>IIRC, the small state is beautiful story was "No Truce with Kings"

Agh! Of course.

>(which Maurai story? the one that they suppressed an industrical
>revolution?).

Exactly.

James Nicoll

unread,
Mar 17, 2003, 12:26:10 PM3/17/03
to
In article <3e75906a$0$53685$d36...@news.newshosting.com>,

Mike Van Pelt <m...@web1.calweb.com> wrote:
>In article <b52ouq$cot$1...@panix1.panix.com>,
>James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
>>September UBIK by Philip K. Dick
>>
>> Never read this.
>
>Is this a report or a recommendation? :-)

It's an observation. I never read this.

Joseph Major

unread,
Mar 17, 2003, 2:08:14 PM3/17/03
to
James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
:
: list courtesy of Andrew Wheeler

:
: 1969
: January THE MERCY MEN by Alan E. Nourse
:
: As previously established, I never read this. Or so I would
: have claimed before I looked at that shelf in the SF MMPK room to
: discover copies of -most- of the Nourse I claimed I never read. Is
: there an amnesia ray in here or what?

The "Mercy Men" of the title are "medical mercenaries",
professional medical test subjects. Nourse was a doctor, remember, so he
may have been writing from some experience here.

<snip>
:
: March THE LION OF COMARRE & AGAINST THE FALL OF NIGHT by Arthur C. Clarke


:
: I'm not sure I ever read Lion.

Young man with pet lion (no his name isn't Clayton) visits city of
dreamers and finds real life much better.

: April SEVEN CONQUESTS by Poul Anderson
:
: Contents
<snip>

The covert observation/control organization of a galactic
federation is working to bring Earth into the federation properly. They
send a new boss man here who doesn't like to be bothered with details. As
you might guess, details are what screw him over.

<snip>

: May NOVA by Saumel R. Delany


:
: Never read this. Allegedly it was bounced from ASF on the
: grounds that John Campbell didn't think his readers wanted stories
: with black protagonists.

Some of the genetics (never a strong point in SF generally, I
admit) seems a little odd. I mean, identical triplets except one is an
albino?

<snip>
: September UBIK by Philip K. Dick
:
: Never read this.

Alan E. Nourse might well be the one to write the "war against the
rogue psionic mutants" novel that the first few chapters of this seem to
be.

<snip>
:
: ORBIT 5 edited by Damon Knight
:
: Contents:
<snip>
: The Big Flash (Norman Spinrad)

:
:
: I -think- the Spinrad is an end of the world story but otherwise
: this is clearly an anthology I missed.

More an attempt to make use of tactical nuclear weapons acceptable
by inventing heavy metal approximately twenty years early. I mean, I can
imagine some heavy metal rock band video where they chant "THE BIG FLASH!
THE BIG FLASH! THE BIG FLASH! DO IT! DO IT! DO IT!" against archive
footage of a nuclear weapons test . . .

:
:
: ANALOG 6 edited by John W. Campbell (Alternate)


:
: "Scientists Are Stupid!" (John W. Campbell, Jr.)
: Coincidence Day (John Brunner)
: The Adventure of the Extraterrestrial (Mack Reynolds)
: Fighting Division (Randall Garrett)
: Computers Don't Argue (Gordon R. Dickson)
: Say it with FLowers (Winston P. Sanders)
: Mission "Red Clash" (Joe Poyer)

A "future war" story somewhat spoiled by the fact that Poyer
forgot that _John F. Kennedy_ was at the time an aircraft carrier. In the
novel the ship was the _Robert F. Kennedy_ of the Attorneys General class
of ships.

: Countercommandment (Patrick Meadows)


: Balanced Ecology (James Schmitz)
: Overproof (Jonathan Blake MacKenzie)

<snip>
:
:
: THE FUNCO FILES by Burt Cole


:
: Never even heard of this one.

Weird and I think his only SF novel. A bunch of losers (a CIA
assassin, a middle-eastern sex priestess, a couple of others I don't
remember at the moment) get involved in a situation where they have to be
either accepted or terminated. Computer judges and recommends results.

:
:
: NEBULA AWARD STORIES TWO edited by Brian Aldiss & Harry
: Harrison (Alternate)
:
<snip>
: The Last Castle (Jack Vance)

The award-winning story, complete with giant intelligent
spideroids being ridden by the last free survivors of humanity.
Interesting scene where the spideroids are first captured and their human
servant comes to the humans to say how it is absolutely contrary to
reality that the spideroids be confined. When it's pointed out that their
wishes are not necessariy reality the remaining spideroids and their
human servants all go mad.

<snip>

: December NIGHTFALL AND OTHER STORIES by Isaac Asimov


:
: Contains:
:
: Nightfall
: Green Patches
: Hostess
: Breeds There a Man...?
: The C-Chute
: "In a Good Cause--"
: What If...
: Sally
: Flies
: Nobody Here But--
: It's Such a Beautiful Day
: Strikebreaker

This and "C-Chute" both feature the problem of the disposal taboo.
The hero outwits the aliens by going out the trash chute in the former,
and in the latter, the waste-disposal maintenance man on an asteroid has
about the same status as an executioner.

: Insert Knob A into Hole B

A short-short with a very bitter twist about cheeseparing on the
part of suppliers to far-off outposts.

: The Up-to-Date Sorcerer

: Unto the Fourth Generation
: What Is This Thing Called Love
: The Machine That Won the War
: My Son, The Physicist!
: Eyes Do More Than See
: Segregationist
:
:
: I think this is one of the better collections of Asimov short
: stories. Mind you, I don't recall a lot of these but the ones I do recall
: I recall fondly.
:
:
:
: DEATHSTAR VOYAGE by Ian Wallace
:
: I missed this.

Is this one of his Croyd series? If that's the case, it's an
early one and better than what they became. (Wallace made some strange
changes, as for the first few books, Croyd was from "Earth" but then
without explanation he was from "Erth", for example.)

<snip>

Joseph T Major
--

Peter D. Tillman

unread,
Mar 17, 2003, 2:30:44 PM3/17/03
to
In article <robertaw-6009FC...@news.fu-berlin.de>,
"Robert A. Woodward" <robe...@drizzle.com> wrote:

> >
> > ANALOG 6 edited by John W. Campbell (Alternate)
> >
> > "Scientists Are Stupid!" (John W. Campbell, Jr.)
> > Coincidence Day (John Brunner)
> > The Adventure of the Extraterrestrial (Mack Reynolds)
> > Fighting Division (Randall Garrett)
> > Computers Don't Argue (Gordon R. Dickson)
> > Say it with FLowers (Winston P. Sanders)
> > Mission "Red Clash" (Joe Poyer)
> > Countercommandment (Patrick Meadows)
> > Balanced Ecology (James Schmitz)
> > Overproof (Jonathan Blake MacKenzie)
> >
> >
> > Anyone read the intro? Any good or just another entry in the
> > John 'W stands for Wacko' Campbell files?
> >
>
> I have searched several years of Analog without finding it, try again
> tommorow.

I wouldn't spend much time looking. I reread this fairly recently, and
remember glancing through the editorial. Aside from the provocative
title, pretty tame (& completely unmemorable) stuff.

Cheers -- Pete Tillman

Peter D. Tillman

unread,
Mar 17, 2003, 2:34:21 PM3/17/03
to
In article <3e75906a$0$53685$d36...@news.newshosting.com>,

m...@web1.calweb.com (Mike Van Pelt) wrote:

>
> > The Dance of the Changer and the Three (Terry Carr)
>
> Interaction with plasma life-forms (IIRC) in the
> very difuse star Epsilon Auriga.

AOL to LWE's comment. My favorite Carr story. Wonderful, literally.


>
>
> > Computers Don't Argue (Gordon R. Dickson)
>
> Very nasty book club computer foul-up that gets worse with
> every attempt to correct it.
>

A very nice piece of work. Hasn't dated a bit, except for the framing
details ['Do not fold, staple or mutilate'].

Cheers -- Pete Tillman

--
"I asked an ATT [ISP] rep for the number of the executive offices.
The reply: 'We used to have it, and could give it out, but
they changed the number and won't tell us what it is.'"

wth...@godzilla2.acpub.duke.edu

unread,
Mar 17, 2003, 2:45:25 PM3/17/03
to
Lawrence Watt-Evans <lawr...@earthlink.net> writes:

> On Mon, 17 Mar 2003 00:27:14 +0000, aRJay <aR...@escore.demon.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> >In article <b52ouq$cot$1...@panix1.panix.com>, James Nicoll
> ><jdni...@panix.com> writes
> >>Fall FIVE TO TWELVE by Edmund Cooper
> >>
> >> And in the general pattern of total ignorance, I missed this one
> >
> >Set in a "future"[1] where there are 5 males born to 12 females, the
> >protagonist is following heart surgery forced into an act of rebellion.
> >Typical Cooper things don't necessarily work out as expected by the
> >protagonists or the readers.
>
> Um... it also has the single stupidest misunderstanding of basic
> genetics I've ever encountered in a professionally-published work, and
> not as a passing element but as central to the ending.


It reminded me of "alph" published by the SFBC a few
years earlier. I'm not sure in which the science
was worse.


William Hyde
EOS Department
Duke University

David Cowie

unread,
Mar 17, 2003, 3:28:47 PM3/17/03
to
On Mon, 17 Mar 2003 13:52:58 +0000, Nancy Lebovitz wrote:

>>
>>July STAND ON ZANZIBAR by John Brunner

> I found the happy ending very disappointing, but perhaps I place too


> high a value on choice.
>

Happy ending? IIRC one major character has become a zombie, and another
major character has started thinking "Christ, what an imagination I've
got", which I took as an indicator that he was about to go off the
rails.

--
David Cowie david_cowie at lineone dot net

Bill Snyder

unread,
Mar 17, 2003, 3:29:58 PM3/17/03
to
On Sun, 16 Mar 2003 22:25:49 -0800, "Robert A. Woodward"
<robe...@drizzle.com> wrote:


>
>> I find it amazing, given the history between JWC and Garrett
>> (Garrett married Campbell's ex) that the two still maintained a
>> professional relationship.
>>
>
>George O. Smith married Dona Stuart after she divorced Campbell.
>

I have somewhere here a Smith collection in which he discusses this.
Apparently he and Dona were rendezvousing in Philadelphia weekend
after weekend (can't remember what excuse she used to sneak off); at
some point they decided to come clean and tell JWC she wanted a
divorce. They went back to the Campbell homestead to beard him in his
den, and he blinked at them in mild puzzlement and said, "Shouldn't
you be on your clandestine way to Philly?"

--
Bill Snyder [This space unintentionally left blank.]

John M. Gamble

unread,
Mar 17, 2003, 8:42:25 PM3/17/03
to
In article <jycda.237$H07...@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com>,
Richard Horton <rrho...@prodigy.net> wrote:
>On 16 Mar 2003 16:05:30 -0500, jdni...@panix.com (James Nicoll)
>wrote:
>
>>
>> list courtesy of Andrew Wheeler
>>
>>1969
[massive snip]

>"Masks" is one of Knight's best stories, and "Time Considered as a
>Helix of Semi-Precious Stones" is one of Delany's best stories. I've
>been meaning to reread the latter since seeing Adam Roberts's essay
>asserting that it is based on a Wallace Stevens poem. Oh, and "The

What poem? And has Delany ever confirmed or denied it?

--
-john

February 28 1997: Last day libraries could order catalogue cards
from the Library of Congress.

John M. Gamble

unread,
Mar 17, 2003, 8:50:15 PM3/17/03
to
In article <pan.2003.03.17....@lineone.net>,

Yeah, but they've Found The Answer to their problem (which doesn't
solve the population problem, just the pressures associated with
it).

The character who thinks "Christ, what an imagination I've got"
is <spoiler>, and i took it more as an indication that <spoiler>
has more free will than first thought.

Lawrence Watt-Evans

unread,
Mar 17, 2003, 10:13:57 PM3/17/03
to
On 17 Mar 2003 09:17:20 -0500, mch...@panix.com (Michael Alan Chary)
wrote:

>In article <WTcda.4442$jA2.4...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
>Lawrence Watt-Evans <lawr...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>On Mon, 17 Mar 2003 00:27:14 +0000, aRJay <aR...@escore.demon.co.uk>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>In article <b52ouq$cot$1...@panix1.panix.com>, James Nicoll
>>><jdni...@panix.com> writes
>>>>Fall FIVE TO TWELVE by Edmund Cooper
>>>

>>>Set in a "future"[1] where there are 5 males born to 12 females, the
>>>protagonist is following heart surgery forced into an act of rebellion.
>>>Typical Cooper things don't necessarily work out as expected by the
>>>protagonists or the readers.
>>
>>Um... it also has the single stupidest misunderstanding of basic
>>genetics I've ever encountered in a professionally-published work, and
>>not as a passing element but as central to the ending.
>>
>>It was the first book I ever literally threw at the wall, possibly
>>excluding incidents I don't remember from toddlerhood.
>
>Okay, seriously, you, Goldfarb, Maroney and Schiffer, both here and on the
>comics boards: either tell us what you're talking about or don't bring it
>up. *WHAT* stupid genetics mistake?

If I thought this book deserved to go unspoiled I'd leave space, but I
don't, so:

The idea that the protagonist has YY sex chromosomes and can therefore
only sire sons, and that this breeds true, and therefore half his sons
will also only sire sons, thereby eventually correcting the sex
imbalance.

(Which was completely absurd biology to begin with, but which could
have at least sort of been hand-waved by appealing to unknown hormonal
effects, though the author didn't bother.)

Now, aren't you sorry you asked?

You know, sometimes people don't explain this stuff because it's not
worth explaining outside the context of the story.

Konrad Gaertner

unread,
Mar 17, 2003, 10:41:35 PM3/17/03
to
Lawrence Watt-Evans wrote:
>
> On 17 Mar 2003 09:17:20 -0500, mch...@panix.com (Michael Alan Chary)
> wrote:
>
> >
> >Okay, seriously, you, Goldfarb, Maroney and Schiffer, both here and on the
> >comics boards: either tell us what you're talking about or don't bring it
> >up. *WHAT* stupid genetics mistake?
>
> If I thought this book deserved to go unspoiled I'd leave space, but I
> don't, so:
>
> The idea that the protagonist has YY sex chromosomes and can therefore
> only sire sons, and that this breeds true, and therefore half his sons
> will also only sire sons, thereby eventually correcting the sex
> imbalance.

The genetics work out fine if these YY folks are mating with men.
Unfortunately, you're referring to them as "sons" which raises
some reproductive biology questions.


--KG

Lawrence Watt-Evans

unread,
Mar 17, 2003, 10:49:46 PM3/17/03
to
On Tue, 18 Mar 2003 03:41:35 GMT, Konrad Gaertner
<kgae...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:

>Lawrence Watt-Evans wrote:
>>
>> The idea that the protagonist has YY sex chromosomes and can therefore
>> only sire sons, and that this breeds true, and therefore half his sons
>> will also only sire sons, thereby eventually correcting the sex
>> imbalance.
>
>The genetics work out fine if these YY folks are mating with men.
>Unfortunately, you're referring to them as "sons" which raises
>some reproductive biology questions.

And females don't sire children; yes, the protagonist is male.

Not to mention that in human beings, females are XX, not YY.

Michael Alan Chary

unread,
Mar 17, 2003, 10:51:27 PM3/17/03
to
In article <V9wda.5510$pK4.5...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,


Hmm, so it came pre-spoiled.:)

>(Which was completely absurd biology to begin with, but which could
>have at least sort of been hand-waved by appealing to unknown hormonal
>effects, though the author didn't bother.)
>
>Now, aren't you sorry you asked?

Nope.

>You know, sometimes people don't explain this stuff because it's not
>worth explaining outside the context of the story.

And sometimes it's just to drive me, personally, nuts. Admit it!
Confess!!!! J'accuse!!!!!!

Alan Scott

unread,
Mar 18, 2003, 2:03:45 AM3/18/03
to
Lawrence Watt-Evans <lawr...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> On 16 Mar 2003 16:05:30 -0500, jdni...@panix.com (James Nicoll)
> wrote:

>> THE FUNCO FILES by Burt Cole
>>
>> Never even heard of this one.

> I have my mother's copy somewhere, in paperback. Haven't read it
> myself, though.

Ooh, ooh - I have this paperback! I even read it, once, but I can't
remember a damn thing about the story now, even after reopening and paging
through it - not a good sign, eh? From the blurbs, though, it's a
psychedelic (it WAS published in 1969) story about a supercomputer ("The
Machine") that "controls the lives of a whole nation of people" and can't
stand people who deviate from the norm, and the intrepid bunch of deviates
who - yay - get together to take The Machine down (Rolf, "a hillbilly boy
who can call up poltergeists," Dejeela-Lal, a "temple prostitute who
performs enthusiastically, while levitating," a guy who can write blue
fire in the air with the tip of his nose, and Rome Burns [heh], who's an
AWOL soldier conditioned to kill anyone who comes too close to him, which
puts a crimp in his relationship with Dejeela-Lal...). Kinda "I Have No
Mouth and I Must Scream" but reversed and novel-length... and I can't for
the life of me figure out how this to be both an SFBC and a Literary Guild
selection...

--
Alan P. Scott..................http://www.pacifier.com/~ascott/apshome.htm
"We were too young for LSD--now we're too old for MTV."
--Dashboard Saviors, "GI Joe", _Kitty_

Nancy Lebovitz

unread,
Mar 18, 2003, 2:46:13 AM3/18/03
to
In article <pan.2003.03.17....@lineone.net>,
David Cowie <see...@lineone.net> wrote:

The solution to violence has been found, at least if you assume that
people can be made so calm that they give up long-range violence too.

raycun

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Mar 18, 2003, 7:59:36 AM3/18/03
to
na...@unix1.netaxs.com (Nancy Lebovitz) wrote in message news:<99Ada.47$1h1....@newshog.newsread.com>...

> In article <pan.2003.03.17....@lineone.net>,
> David Cowie <see...@lineone.net> wrote:
> >On Mon, 17 Mar 2003 13:52:58 +0000, Nancy Lebovitz wrote:
> >
> >>>
> >>>July STAND ON ZANZIBAR by John Brunner
>
> >> I found the happy ending very disappointing, but perhaps I place too
> >> high a value on choice.
> >>
> >Happy ending? IIRC one major character has become a zombie, and another
> >major character has started thinking "Christ, what an imagination I've
> >got", which I took as an indicator that he was about to go off the
> >rails.
>
> The solution to violence has been found, at least if you assume that
> people can be made so calm that they give up long-range violence too.

The theoretical solution to violence has been found - but it can't be
implemented because the only guy with the practical knowledge of how
to apply it has been killed (or zombified).
Its an "if we'd discovered this last week we'd have been fine*, but
now we're all DOOOOMED" ending.

Ray

*possibly 'fine happy mindslaves', depending on your reading.

Louann Miller

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Mar 18, 2003, 9:20:35 AM3/18/03
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On Tue, 18 Mar 2003 03:49:46 GMT, Lawrence Watt-Evans
<lawr...@earthlink.net> wrote:

>On Tue, 18 Mar 2003 03:41:35 GMT, Konrad Gaertner
><kgae...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
>>Lawrence Watt-Evans wrote:
>>>
>>> The idea that the protagonist has YY sex chromosomes and can therefore
>>> only sire sons, and that this breeds true, and therefore half his sons
>>> will also only sire sons, thereby eventually correcting the sex
>>> imbalance.
>>
>>The genetics work out fine if these YY folks are mating with men.
>>Unfortunately, you're referring to them as "sons" which raises
>>some reproductive biology questions.
>
>And females don't sire children; yes, the protagonist is male.
>
>Not to mention that in human beings, females are XX, not YY.

I believe the technical term for a human with two Y chromosomes and no
X is "dead fertilized egg." The X has a lot of vital stuff on it
entirely apart from sex determination.

Nancy Lebovitz

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Mar 18, 2003, 9:36:36 AM3/18/03
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In article <v7dh6hk...@corp.supernews.com>,

Alan Scott <asc...@pacifier.com> wrote:
>Lawrence Watt-Evans <lawr...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>> On 16 Mar 2003 16:05:30 -0500, jdni...@panix.com (James Nicoll)
>> wrote:
>
>>> THE FUNCO FILES by Burt Cole
>>>
>>> Never even heard of this one.
>
>> I have my mother's copy somewhere, in paperback. Haven't read it
>> myself, though.
>
> Ooh, ooh - I have this paperback! I even read it, once, but I can't
>remember a damn thing about the story now, even after reopening and paging
>through it - not a good sign, eh? From the blurbs, though, it's a
>psychedelic (it WAS published in 1969) story about a supercomputer ("The
>Machine") that "controls the lives of a whole nation of people" and can't
>stand people who deviate from the norm, and the intrepid bunch of deviates
>who - yay - get together to take The Machine down (Rolf, "a hillbilly boy
>who can call up poltergeists," Dejeela-Lal, a "temple prostitute who
>performs enthusiastically, while levitating," a guy who can write blue
>fire in the air with the tip of his nose, and Rome Burns [heh], who's an
>AWOL soldier conditioned to kill anyone who comes too close to him, which
>puts a crimp in his relationship with Dejeela-Lal...). Kinda "I Have No
>Mouth and I Must Scream" but reversed and novel-length... and I can't for
>the life of me figure out how this to be both an SFBC and a Literary Guild
>selection...

I'd read it, too, and you've managed to tweak my memory enough to
get that 'Funco' was short for "funny coincidence", but no other details
have surfaced.

Niall McAuley

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Mar 18, 2003, 11:20:42 AM3/18/03
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"James Nicoll" <jdni...@panix.com> wrote in message news:b52ouq$cot$1...@panix1.panix.com...

> March THE LION OF COMARRE & AGAINST THE FALL OF NIGHT by Arthur C. Clarke

> I'm not sure I ever read Lion.

It contains two interesting bits of technology for 1949:

The hero carries a mobile phone, but when his father tries to call him,
it's turned off so Dad gets an automated message service instead.

Comarre itself is an AI run city with VR so good nobody ever leaves.

[Asimov's "Nightfall" collection]

> Nightfall

What if the stars only came out once in a thousand years?

> Green Patches

Ah, the good old days when Asimov still thought hegemonizing swarms were a Bad Thing.

> Hostess

Someone explain this one to me. Woman acts as hostess to husbands alien
colleague and has a Revelation about missing persons, but unfortunately
doesn't explain it to me.

> Breeds There a Man...?

This is the one about the Genius building an A-bomb defense, and the
Earth as a Petri dish, i think.

> The C-Chute

Unlikely hero from amongst space liner passengers battles alien insectoid invaders.

> "In a Good Cause--"

Humans Greek, Aliens Persian.

> What If...
> Sally
> Flies

Man with machine for reading animal's minds discovers Beelzebub.

> Nobody Here But--
> It's Such a Beautiful Day

Boy afraid to use house Gate discovers Big Room outside.

> Strikebreaker

Asteroid sewage worker suffers under developing caste system.

> Insert Knob A into Hole B

How not to go about bootstrapping.

> The Up-to-Date Sorcerer
> Unto the Fourth Generation

A Jewish SF story, written as a tribute to Boucher, I think.
Not that Boucher was Jewish, but he was religious. Catholic?

> What Is This Thing Called Love

A.K.A Playboy and the SLime Gods.

> The Machine That Won the War
> My Son, The Physicist!

Full duplex communication.

> Eyes Do More Than See

Boo-hoo.

> Segregationist

A robot racism story.

> The Key (Isaac Asimov)

A Wendell Urth story featuring a multilingual pun.
--
Niall [real address ends in se, not es.invalid]

Niall McAuley

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Mar 18, 2003, 11:38:11 AM3/18/03
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"Richard Horton" <rrho...@prodigy.net> wrote in message news:jycda.237$H07...@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com...
> So the real question is "Why didn't
> Asimov collect stories like "Nightfall", "C-Chute", "Breeds There a
> Man?", and "Green Patches" earlier?"

In the specific case of "Nightfall", I think the notes explained that it's
Asimov's most frequently anthologized story, so it was never included in any
earlier Asimov collection because everyone already had it in a few other
anthologies.

Nancy Lebovitz

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Mar 18, 2003, 12:04:38 PM3/18/03
to
In article <b147c2a9.03031...@posting.google.com>,
>*possibly 'fine happy mindslaves', depending on your reading.

Then I definitely didn't read the book carefully enough.

Mike Schilling

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Mar 18, 2003, 3:15:20 PM3/18/03
to

"Richard Horton" <rrho...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:jycda.237$H07...@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com...
>
> > THE BEST FROM FANTASY & SCIENCE FICTION, 16TH SERIES edited
> >by Edward L. Ferman (Alternate)
> >
> >
> > Contents:
> >
> > Introduction (Ed Ferman)
> > Luana (Gilbert Thomas)
> > And Madly Teach (Lloyd Biggle, Jr.)
> > Matog (Joan Patricia Basch)
> > The Key (Isaac Asimov)
> > The Seven Wonders of the Universe (Mose Mallette)
> > A Few Kindren Spirits (John Christopher)
> > We Can Remember It for You Wholesale (Philip K. Dick)
> > Three for Carnival (John Shepley)
> > Experiment in Autobiography (Ron Goulart)
> > The Adjusted (Kenneth Bulmer)
> > The Age of Invention (Norman Spinrad)
> > Apology to Inky (Robert M. Green, Jr)
> > This Moment of the Storm (Roger Zelazny)
> > Micky Finn (Doris Pitkin Buck)
> > Imaginary Numbers in a Real Garden (Gerald Jonas)
> > Letter to a Tyrant King (Bill Butler)
> > Memo to a Secretary (Pat de Graw)
> > Six Cartoons (Gahan Wilson)
> >
> >
> > I missed most of these.
>
> The Dick story is very good, and it is also the loose inspiration for
> the Arnold movie TOTAL RECALL. I also quite like the Zelazny story --
> most of the others I have forgotten.

"Apology to Inky" is about either time-travel or madness, or possibly both.
An excellent story which also appeared in Kinght's _A Science Fiction
Argosy_, which, come to think of it, I also got from the SFBC.

"The Key" is a Wendell Urth mystery.


John Johnson

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Mar 18, 2003, 4:08:38 PM3/18/03
to
In article <b57h1d$dvo$1...@newstree.ericsson.se>,
Niall....@eei.ericsson.es.invalid says...

> "James Nicoll" <jdni...@panix.com> wrote in message news:b52ouq$cot$1...@panix1.panix.com...

> > Nobody Here But--
> > It's Such a Beautiful Day
>
> Boy afraid to use house Gate discovers Big Room outside.

Is this the one where the clothes are disposable and the boy's mother
wants to have a psychologist check him out due to his fascination with
the outside? If so, I seem to rememer it ias more of a YA type of
story.


--
John Johnson

John M. Gamble

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Mar 18, 2003, 7:35:49 PM3/18/03
to
In article <GkIda.40$HA3....@monger.newsread.com>,

Nancy Lebovitz <na...@unix1.netaxs.com> wrote:
>In article <b147c2a9.03031...@posting.google.com>,
>raycun <ray...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>na...@unix1.netaxs.com (Nancy Lebovitz) wrote in message news:<99Ada.47$1h1....@newshog.newsread.com>...
>>> In article <pan.2003.03.17....@lineone.net>,
>>> David Cowie <see...@lineone.net> wrote:
>>> >On Mon, 17 Mar 2003 13:52:58 +0000, Nancy Lebovitz wrote:
>>> >
>>> >>>
>>> >>>July STAND ON ZANZIBAR by John Brunner
>>>
>>> >> I found the happy ending very disappointing, but perhaps I place too
>>> >> high a value on choice.
>>> >>
>>> >Happy ending? IIRC one major character has become a zombie, and another
>>> >major character has started thinking "Christ, what an imagination I've
>>> >got", which I took as an indicator that he was about to go off the
>>> >rails.
>>>
>>> The solution to violence has been found, at least if you assume that
>>> people can be made so calm that they give up long-range violence too.
>>
>>The theoretical solution to violence has been found - but it can't be
>>implemented because the only guy with the practical knowledge of how
>>to apply it has been killed (or zombified).
>>Its an "if we'd discovered this last week we'd have been fine*, but
>>now we're all DOOOOMED" ending.
>>
>>*possibly 'fine happy mindslaves', depending on your reading.
>
>Then I definitely didn't read the book carefully enough.

No, you're okay with your reading. The one guy with the practical
knowledge did die, but ...
<spoiler>


It's reproducible by the computer. "Sorry about that. I guess it's
better to be saved by a machine than not be saved at all."
</spoiler>

Mind you, it's still depressing that we can't save ourselves.

David Goldfarb

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Mar 19, 2003, 5:18:18 AM3/19/03
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In article <3e761...@news.iglou.com>,
Joseph Major <jtm...@shell1.iglou.com> wrote:

>James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
>: April SEVEN CONQUESTS by Poul Anderson
>:
>: Contents
><snip>
>
> The covert observation/control organization of a galactic
>federation is working to bring Earth into the federation properly. They
>send a new boss man here who doesn't like to be bothered with details. As
>you might guess, details are what screw him over.

That's only one of the seven stories in the book. (Anyone who cares to
can read the contents list and try to guess which one. It's not too hard.)

--
David Goldfarb <*>|"You will know pain."
gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu | "And you will know fear."
|"And then you will die. Have a pleasant flight."
gold...@csua.berkeley.edu | -- Babylon 5, "The Parliament of Dreams"

Harry Erwin

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Mar 19, 2003, 9:11:56 AM3/19/03
to
Lawrence Watt-Evans <lawr...@earthlink.net> wrote:

Given that you _must_ have at least one X chromosome to be viable (the Y
chromosome is almost entirely deactivated)....

>
> (Which was completely absurd biology to begin with, but which could
> have at least sort of been hand-waved by appealing to unknown hormonal
> effects, though the author didn't bother.)
>
> Now, aren't you sorry you asked?
>
> You know, sometimes people don't explain this stuff because it's not
> worth explaining outside the context of the story.


--
Harry Erwin <http://www.theworld.com/~herwin/>

Peter D. Tillman

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Mar 19, 2003, 3:17:52 PM3/19/03
to
In article <b55ti1$cvk$1...@e250.ripco.com>,

jga...@ripco.com (John M. Gamble) wrote:

> In article <jycda.237$H07...@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com>,
> Richard Horton <rrho...@prodigy.net> wrote:
> >On 16 Mar 2003 16:05:30 -0500, jdni...@panix.com (James Nicoll)
> >wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> list courtesy of Andrew Wheeler
> >>
> >>1969
> [massive snip]
>
> >"Masks" is one of Knight's best stories, and "Time Considered as a
> >Helix of Semi-Precious Stones" is one of Delany's best stories. I've
> >been meaning to reread the latter since seeing Adam Roberts's essay
> >asserting that it is based on a Wallace Stevens poem. Oh, and "The
>
> What poem? And has Delany ever confirmed or denied it?

Here's the essay -- it's a nice one:

http://www.thealienonline.net/columns/rcsf_delany_dec02.asp?tid=7&scid=55
&iid=1264

[watch the wrap]

Cheers -- Pete Tillman

Steve Parker

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Mar 19, 2003, 8:27:22 PM3/19/03
to
On 16 Mar 2003 16:05:30 -0500, jdni...@panix.com (James Nicoll)
wrote:

> ANALOG 6 edited by John W. Campbell (Alternate)
>
> "Scientists Are Stupid!" (John W. Campbell, Jr.)
> Coincidence Day (John Brunner)
> The Adventure of the Extraterrestrial (Mack Reynolds)
> Fighting Division (Randall Garrett)

> Computers Don't Argue (Gordon R. Dickson)

> Say it with FLowers (Winston P. Sanders)
> Mission "Red Clash" (Joe Poyer)
> Countercommandment (Patrick Meadows)
> Balanced Ecology (James Schmitz)
> Overproof (Jonathan Blake MacKenzie)
>
>
> Anyone read the intro? Any good or just another entry in the
>John 'W stands for Wacko' Campbell files?

A) I this should be _Analog 5_.

B) W is for Wacko. The upshot? Campbell says that dem evil scientists
keep saying stuff is impossible. His rant is along the lines of "They
laughted at NEWTON! They laughed at MENDEL!" not realizing that 90% of
the time the next clause should be "And they laughed at Bozo the
clown, who's as funny as the moron I'm championing!"

Campbell says that he has proof, PROOF!!!, MIND YOU that some
clarevoyant guy or other from some university or other can always tell
you where escaped homicidal lunatics will be.. An' other stuff. But
dem evil scientists are too dumb to look at the results.

He may have been the best editor in the business. He may have been the
greatest finder and nurturer of talent in the history of SF. But he
was also a nitwit.

Steve

joy beeson

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Mar 22, 2003, 8:50:01 AM3/22/03
to
Lawrence Watt-Evans <lawr...@earthlink.net> wrote:


> (Which was completely absurd biology to begin with, but which could
> have at least sort of been hand-waved by appealing to unknown hormonal
> effects, though the author didn't bother.)

I didn't notice the absurd mechanism -- just the statement
that he would sire only sons, and his sons would have only
sons.

Which, I thought, implied the extinction of the human race.
The protagonist seemed quite sure that the sons would breed
without limit.

But this was at least twenty years ago, and I've no
intention of reading it again.

Joy Beeson
--
http://home.earthlink.net/~joybeeson/ -- needlework
http://home.earthlink.net/~beeson_n3f/ -- Writers' Exchange
joy beeson at earthlink dot net


William December Starr

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Mar 29, 2003, 4:33:13 PM3/29/03
to
In article <tillman-78D633...@news.fu-berlin.de>,

"Peter D. Tillman" <til...@aztec.asu.edu> said:

>>> "Masks" is one of Knight's best stories, and "Time Considered as a
>>> Helix of Semi-Precious Stones" is one of Delany's best stories.
>>> I've been meaning to reread the latter since seeing Adam Roberts's
>>> essay asserting that it is based on a Wallace Stevens poem. Oh,
>>> and "The
>>
>> What poem? And has Delany ever confirmed or denied it?
>
> Here's the essay -- it's a nice one:
>
> http://www.thealienonline.net/columns/rcsf_delany_dec02.asp?tid=7&scid=55
> &iid=1264
>
> [watch the wrap]

Whoah. Somebody -- Adam Roberts, to be precise -- has *way* too much
time on his hands.

-- William December Starr <wds...@panix.com>

John F. Carr

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Apr 5, 2003, 1:22:55 PM4/5/03
to
In article <b653ep$hsb$1...@panix1.panix.com>,

William December Starr <wds...@panix.com> wrote:
>In article <tillman-78D633...@news.fu-berlin.de>,
>"Peter D. Tillman" <til...@aztec.asu.edu> said:
>>
>> Here's the essay -- it's a nice one:
>>
>> http://www.thealienonline.net/columns/rcsf_delany_dec02.asp?tid=7&scid=55&iid=1264
>
>Whoah. Somebody -- Adam Roberts, to be precise -- has *way* too much
>time on his hands.

He found a productive use for all the time he doesn't spend on his
book titles. His first three novels have monosyllabic titles (On,
Salt, Stone). His fourth breaks new ground, having a single word
title with THREE syllables (Polystom).

--
John Carr (j...@mit.edu)

marika

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Apr 13, 2003, 8:33:57 PM4/13/03
to
jdni...@panix.com (James Nicoll) wrote in message news:<b52ouq$cot$1...@panix1.panix.com>...

> list courtesy of Andrew Wheeler
>
> 1969
> January THE MERCY MEN by Alan E. Nourse
>
> As previously established, I never read this. Or so I would
> have claimed before I looked at that shelf in the SF MMPK room to
> discover copies of -most- of the Nourse I claimed I never read. Is
> there an amnesia ray in here or what?

This reminds me of the time I went out to lunch with my friend. He was
telling me a story about an article he had read, and he couldn't remember
the name
of the magazine in which he had seen the article. I AM NOT MAKING THIS
UP!!! IT IS
100% TRUE. So he says to me....

"I read this article in..... um.... I can't remember..... what's that _DIGEST_
that people _READ_"?

Vagovagal response? Vagus nerve?

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