merkins- false hair for the female pudenda (on topic believe it or not)
Mark Watson
Fiction of the Year #8', pub 1979.
Two of the 13 stories refer to 'merkins' (false hair for the female
pudenda): viz. 'The Barbie Murders' John Varley, and 'Devil You Don't
Know' by Dean Ing.
Now, I pride myself on my vocabulary, and I have never heard of a
'merkin' in my 41 years. So my question is, is it purely a co-incidence
that 'merkins' were referred to in two SF short stories written in 1978,
or was there some high profile news case involving 'merkins' that will
have prompted the reference to them in these two stories.
Anyone shed any light on this?
--
Mark Watson
mark....@bestsf.net
http://www.bestsf.net - the essential guide to the Best in short SF
Best SF Database: database with summaries of over 700 short SF stories
Best SF Gateway : links to the best short SF online
Best SF Reviews : the latest short SF reviewed
Terry Austin
"Mark Watson" <mark....@bestsf.net> wrote in message
news:VPPgSAAR...@bestsf.fsnet.co.uk...
> I am currently reading (as is my wont) Terry Carr's 'The Best Science
> Fiction of the Year #8', pub 1979.
>
> Two of the 13 stories refer to 'merkins' (false hair for the female
> pudenda): viz. 'The Barbie Murders' John Varley, and 'Devil You Don't
> Know' by Dean Ing.
>
> Now, I pride myself on my vocabulary, and I have never heard of a
> 'merkin' in my 41 years. So my question is, is it purely a co-incidence
> that 'merkins' were referred to in two SF short stories written in 1978,
> or was there some high profile news case involving 'merkins' that will
> have prompted the reference to them in these two stories.
>
> Anyone shed any light on this?
>
never heard "merkin"? It's a perversion of American, and
I see it quite a lot from folks across the pond.
Terry Austin
Lee DeRaud
wrote:
>I am currently reading (as is my wont) Terry Carr's 'The Best Science
>Fiction of the Year #8', pub 1979.
>
>Two of the 13 stories refer to 'merkins' (false hair for the female
>pudenda): viz. 'The Barbie Murders' John Varley, and 'Devil You Don't
>Know' by Dean Ing.
>
>Now, I pride myself on my vocabulary, and I have never heard of a
>'merkin' in my 41 years. So my question is, is it purely a co-incidence
>that 'merkins' were referred to in two SF short stories written in 1978,
>or was there some high profile news case involving 'merkins' that will
>have prompted the reference to them in these two stories.
>
>Anyone shed any light on this?
You know the word 'pudenda' but not the word 'merkin'?!? It's a
strange world you live in, son.
See http://us.imdb.com/Title?0064123
Lee
Dorothy J Heydt
Terry Austin <tau...@hyperbooks.com> wrote:
>
>>
>You've been on the Internet - and Usenet - for how long, and
>never heard "merkin"? It's a perversion of American, and
>I see it quite a lot from folks across the pond.
Yes, but it also means "pubic wig." I understand from my son
that there were once upon a time sleazy joints in which the girls
danced naked. And they would be considered extra naked if they'd
shaved. But the authorities disapproved. So the girls would
shave and have a merkin on hand to slap on with a little spirit
gum when a raid was threatened.
So he says, anyway. *I* couldn't make up this stuff.
Dorothy J. Heydt
Albany, California
djh...@kithrup.com
http://www.kithrup.com/~djheydt
Bill Snyder
wrote:
>In article <9k9q0...@enews1.newsguy.com>,
>Terry Austin <tau...@hyperbooks.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>You've been on the Internet - and Usenet - for how long, and
>>never heard "merkin"? It's a perversion of American, and
>>I see it quite a lot from folks across the pond.
>
>Yes, but it also means "pubic wig." I understand from my son
>that there were once upon a time sleazy joints in which the girls
>danced naked. And they would be considered extra naked if they'd
>shaved. But the authorities disapproved. So the girls would
>shave and have a merkin on hand to slap on with a little spirit
>gum when a raid was threatened.
>
>So he says, anyway. *I* couldn't make up this stuff.
>
If I'm remembering the credits correctly (don't think the name was
ever mentioned in dialogue), the President of the US in _Dr.
Strangelove_ was . . . wait for it . . . Merkin Muffley.
--
Bill Snyder [This space unintentionally left blank.]
Alan Barclay
Bill Snyder <bsn...@iadfw.net> wrote:
>If I'm remembering the credits correctly (don't think the name was
>ever mentioned in dialogue), the President of the US in _Dr.
>Strangelove_ was . . . wait for it . . . Merkin Muffley.
It wasn't the only sex related names in Dr Strangelove.
General Buck Turgidson
Ambassador Alexi De Sadesky (De Sade being the original sadist of course)
General Jack D. Ripper
Primer Kissoff
Mark Watson
<lee.d...@boeing.com> writes
>You know the word 'pudenda' but not the word 'merkin'?!? It's a
>strange world you live in, son.
>
>See http://us.imdb.com/Title?0064123
Two things Lee
i) I find being called 'son' rude and patronising
ii) IMHO the world I live in, where the word pudenda is better known
ahead of the colloqualism merkin, is certainly the world where the
majority of people I know live, and references to one well known film
(Strangelove) and one very, very obscure film (the one you quote) don't
suggest to me otherwise. Or is it the case that pubic wigs are quite
common in your part of the world?
Richard Harter
wrote:
>i) I find being called 'son' rude and patronising
Let me give you a bit of free advice, son. When you're posting on
usenet it is wise to not complain about other people's style of
address being rude and patronising. There are any number of
smartasses who will pick up on it with glee.
Got that, boy?
Richard Harter, c...@tiac.net,
http://www.tiac.net/users/cri, http://www.varinoma.com
I get my irony at K-mart.
It may be cheap but I can get it in quantity.
Mark Watson
<c...@tiac.net> writes
>Got that, boy?
rude, patronising *and* obnoxious. I am so-o scared, Richard. (Or should
that be Dick?)
And you my friend, are well and truly in my killfile.
Htn963
>You've been on the Internet - and Usenet - for how long, and
>never heard "merkin"? It's a perversion of American, and
>I see it quite a lot from folks across the pond.
I consider it an extremely rude pejorative -- apparently, many Americans
do too, since I've yet to see any of them refer to themselves this way --
unlike the British, who are comfortable with "Brits" and Australians, with
"Aussies".
On another newsgroup, after I made a gentleman's agreement with a
pedantic and arrogant English fellow that I will avoid using "Brit Twit" to
refer to his kind if he will avoid using "Merkin" I was also informed by
someone else that it originated as a mispelling for "Mervyn," a notorious
American troll.
Since you claim to know all about "trolls", Terry, ever heard of Mervyn?
>Terry Austin
Ht
Richard Harter
wrote:
>In article <3b69ac3e...@news.SullyButtes.net>, Richard Harter
><c...@tiac.net> writes
>>Got that, boy?
>
>rude, patronising *and* obnoxious.
And offensive. Don't forget offensive.
>I am so-o scared, Richard. (Or should
>that be Dick?)
Richard will do nicely but you may, if you like, call me by my secret
name, "Sir".
>And you my friend, are well and truly in my killfile.
I dare say it must be a large one. It is a pity that the world is
simply filled with people who do not take you seriously.
Richard Harter
>"Terry Austin" wrote:
>
>>You've been on the Internet - and Usenet - for how long, and
>>never heard "merkin"? It's a perversion of American, and
>>I see it quite a lot from folks across the pond.
>
> I consider it an extremely rude pejorative -- apparently, many Americans
>do too, since I've yet to see any of them refer to themselves this way --
>unlike the British, who are comfortable with "Brits" and Australians, with
>"Aussies".
I doubt that many Americans would consider it rude since I doubt that
many Americans would have the slightest idea what a merkin is. I have
seen murrikin every now and then. On the whole, though, Americans are
unconscious of the need for a nickname for themselves. In American
eyes the world begins at the Atlantic, ends at the Pacific, and is
bordered on the North by Canada and the South by Mexico. Just as
every little hunter/gatherer tribe places themselves at the center of
the human race by calling themselves "the people" so do Americans
think of themselves as the only segment of the human race that matters
and the USA as the only part of the world that one needs to be
concerned with.
>
> On another newsgroup, after I made a gentleman's agreement with a
>pedantic and arrogant English fellow that I will avoid using "Brit Twit" to
>refer to his kind if he will avoid using "Merkin" I was also informed by
>someone else that it originated as a mispelling for "Mervyn," a notorious
>American troll.
>
> Since you claim to know all about "trolls", Terry, ever heard of Mervyn?
>
>>Terry Austin
>
>Ht
>
>
Richard Harter, c...@tiac.net,
Terry Austin
> In article <3b69ac3e...@news.SullyButtes.net>, Richard Harter
> <c...@tiac.net> writes
> >Got that, boy?
>
> rude, patronising *and* obnoxious. I am so-o scared, Richard. (Or should
> that be Dick?)
>
> And you my friend, are well and truly in my killfile.
>
Terry Austin
Terry Austin
"Htn963" <htn...@cs.com> wrote in message
news:20010802171248...@ng-fl1.news.cs.com...
> "Terry Austin" wrote:
>
> >You've been on the Internet - and Usenet - for how long, and
> >never heard "merkin"? It's a perversion of American, and
> >I see it quite a lot from folks across the pond.
>
> I consider it an extremely rude pejorative -- apparently, many
Americans
> do too, since I've yet to see any of them refer to themselves this way --
> unlike the British, who are comfortable with "Brits" and Australians,
with
> "Aussies".
I'v seen it used by Americans that way, in alt.peeves. Which supports
your statement, rather than disputing it.
>
> On another newsgroup, after I made a gentleman's agreement with a
> pedantic and arrogant English fellow that I will avoid using "Brit
Twit" to
> refer to his kind if he will avoid using "Merkin" I was also informed by
> someone else that it originated as a mispelling for "Mervyn," a
notorious
> American troll.
>
> Since you claim to know all about "trolls", Terry, ever heard of
Mervyn?
>
Can't say that I have, no.
Terry Austin
Paul Austin
"Richard Harter" wrote
> (Htn963) wrote:
>
> >"Terry Austin" wrote:
> >
> >>You've been on the Internet - and Usenet - for how long, and
> >>never heard "merkin"? It's a perversion of American, and
> >>I see it quite a lot from folks across the pond.
> >
> > I consider it an extremely rude pejorative -- apparently, many
Americans
> >do too, since I've yet to see any of them refer to themselves this way --
> >unlike the British, who are comfortable with "Brits" and Australians,
with
> >"Aussies".
>
> I doubt that many Americans would consider it rude since I doubt that
> many Americans would have the slightest idea what a merkin is. I have
> seen murrikin every now and then. On the whole, though, Americans are
> unconscious of the need for a nickname for themselves. In American
> eyes the world begins at the Atlantic, ends at the Pacific, and is
> bordered on the North by Canada and the South by Mexico. Just as
> every little hunter/gatherer tribe places themselves at the center of
> the human race by calling themselves "the people" so do Americans
> think of themselves as the only segment of the human race that matters
> and the USA as the only part of the world that one needs to be
> concerned with.
>
the Untied Snakes, the Home of the Braid and Land of the Flea. I don't take
being a USian too seriously and neither do a lot of others who still like
the place and want to improve it.
--
"Whatever happens will be for the worse and
therefore it is in our interest that
as little should happen as possible."
Paul F Austin
pau...@digital.net
Paul Austin
"Mark Watson" wrote
> Richard Harter writes
> >Got that, boy?
>
> rude, patronising *and* obnoxious. I am so-o scared, Richard. (Or should
> that be Dick?)
>
> And you my friend, are well and truly in my killfile.
That's a mighty light trigger you got there, cowboy. Mind you don't shoot
your boot off.
In any case, merkin isn't a colloquialism but rather an antiquarian word,
Elizabethan in period. Women whose smallpox left them alive but bald, wore
wigs at both ends.
--
Diplomacy is the art of saying "Nice Doggy"
while searching for a rock.
-------------------------------------
Paul F Austin
pau...@digital.net
Richard Harter
wrote:
And you think the connection between what you said and what I wrote
is?
Brian Palmer
> On Thu, 02 Aug 2001 19:00:58 GMT, Mark Watson <mark....@bestsf.net>
> wrote:
>
>
> >i) I find being called 'son' rude and patronising
>
> Let me give you a bit of free advice, son. When you're posting on
> usenet it is wise to not complain about other people's style of
> address being rude and patronising. There are any number of
> smartasses who will pick up on it with glee.
When addressing reasonable acting people, a mention of how they are
coming across may help the discussion. There's even a number of
"smartasses" who don't bother pointlessly giving offense.
> Got that, boy?
Of course, there are the unreasonable, the prickly, and those not in
control of themselves, among others.
-brian
John Schilling
"Richard Harter" wrote
> (Htn963) wrote:
> >"Terry Austin" wrote:
> >>You've been on the Internet - and Usenet - for how long, and
> >>never heard "merkin"? It's a perversion of American, and
> >>I see it quite a lot from folks across the pond.
> > I consider it an extremely rude pejorative -- apparently, many
> >Americans do too, since I've yet to see any of them refer to themselves
> >this way -- unlike the British, who are comfortable with "Brits" and
> >Australians, with "Aussies".
> I doubt that many Americans would consider it rude since I doubt that
> many Americans would have the slightest idea what a merkin is. I have
> seen murrikin every now and then. On the whole, though, Americans are
> unconscious of the need for a nickname for themselves. In American
> eyes the world begins at the Atlantic, ends at the Pacific, and is
> bordered on the North by Canada and the South by Mexico.
A: The world does not end at the borders of Canada and Mexico. Canada
and Mexico are provinces of the United States.
B: Some of us know damn well wnat a merkin is. To the extent that we
think you all know what a merkin is as well, we're likely to take
the term as an insult.
C: To the extent that we think that you all think we *don't* know what
a merkin is, we will certainly take the term as an insult. Deliberate
and cowardly.
D: What's wrong with "Yank"?
--
*John Schilling * "Anything worth doing, *
*Member:AIAA,NRA,ACLU,SAS,LP * is worth doing for money" *
*Chief Scientist & General Partner * -13th Rule of Acquisition *
*White Elephant Research, LLC * "There is no substitute *
*schi...@spock.usc.edu * for success" *
*661-951-9107 or 661-275-6795 * -58th Rule of Acquisition *
Bill Snyder
> On the whole, though, Americans are
>unconscious of the need for a nickname for themselves. In American
>eyes the world begins at the Atlantic, ends at the Pacific, and is
>bordered on the North by Canada and the South by Mexico. Just as
>every little hunter/gatherer tribe places themselves at the center of
>the human race by calling themselves "the people" so do Americans
>think of themselves as the only segment of the human race that matters
>and the USA as the only part of the world that one needs to be
>concerned with.
Ah, so we're just like the Brits, and the French, and the Chinese, and
the . . .
Reverend Sean O'Hara
>
> "Terry Austin" wrote:
>
> >You've been on the Internet - and Usenet - for how long, and
> >never heard "merkin"? It's a perversion of American, and
> >I see it quite a lot from folks across the pond.
>
> I consider it an extremely rude pejorative -- apparently, many Americans
> do too, since I've yet to see any of them refer to themselves this way --
> unlike the British, who are comfortable with "Brits" and Australians, with
> "Aussies".
>
citizens. I strongly suspect that you're a Red Canadian agitator
trying to sow discord between anglophone countries.
--
Reverend Sean O'Hara
You too can be an ordained minister: http://www.ulc.org/ulc
Staff Writer for EXPULSION: http://www.expulsion.org
"Just last week, Rummy sent me an e-mail over the Internet -
something that didn't exist just five years ago." - Sen. Armey
Richard Harter
wrote:
>
>
>"Richard Harter" wrote
>> (Htn963) wrote:
>
>> >"Terry Austin" wrote:
>
>> >>You've been on the Internet - and Usenet - for how long, and
>> >>never heard "merkin"? It's a perversion of American, and
>> >>I see it quite a lot from folks across the pond.
>
>> > I consider it an extremely rude pejorative -- apparently, many
>> >Americans do too, since I've yet to see any of them refer to themselves
>> >this way -- unlike the British, who are comfortable with "Brits" and
>> >Australians, with "Aussies".
>
>> I doubt that many Americans would consider it rude since I doubt that
>> many Americans would have the slightest idea what a merkin is. I have
>> seen murrikin every now and then. On the whole, though, Americans are
>> unconscious of the need for a nickname for themselves. In American
>> eyes the world begins at the Atlantic, ends at the Pacific, and is
>> bordered on the North by Canada and the South by Mexico.
>
>A: The world does not end at the borders of Canada and Mexico. Canada
> and Mexico are provinces of the United States.
So dull of me. I stand corrected.
>
>B: Some of us know damn well wnat a merkin is. To the extent that we
> think you all know what a merkin is as well, we're likely to take
> the term as an insult.
>
>C: To the extent that we think that you all think we *don't* know what
> a merkin is, we will certainly take the term as an insult. Deliberate
> and cowardly.
Fine by me. It's in the nature of human beings to find something to
take as an insult. That will do as well as anything.
>
>D: What's wrong with "Yank"?
South of the Mason-Dixon line, a yank [1] is someone from North of the
Mason-Dixon line. North of the Mason-Dixon it's someone from New
England. In New England it's someone from Maine.
[1] It's all one word - Goddamnyankee.
Richard Harter
David T. Bilek
>On 2 Aug 2001 20:04:15 -0700, schi...@spock.usc.edu (John Schilling)
>wrote:
>>
>>"Richard Harter" wrote
>>
>>D: What's wrong with "Yank"?
>
>South of the Mason-Dixon line, a yank [1] is someone from North of the
>Mason-Dixon line. North of the Mason-Dixon it's someone from New
>England. In New England it's someone from Maine.
As a displaced New Englander, it is my duty to correct this. You mean
Vermont, not Maine. And in Vermont, a Yankee eats apple pie for
breakfast.
You know, even though I don't think characterization is usually Steve
Stirling's strongest point, his depiction of real Yankees in the Sea
of Time stuff wasn't terrible*.
I can't actually think offhand of any authors who have depicted true
Yankees much better.
-David
* This would be high praise indeed from an old time Yankee, someone
for whom raising an eyebrow in askance is a sign of nearly
uncontrollable rage.
Richard Harter
wrote:
>On Fri, 03 Aug 2001 03:27:12 GMT, c...@tiac.net (Richard Harter) wrote:
>
>>On 2 Aug 2001 20:04:15 -0700, schi...@spock.usc.edu (John Schilling)
>>wrote:
>>>
>>>"Richard Harter" wrote
>>>
>>>D: What's wrong with "Yank"?
>>
>>South of the Mason-Dixon line, a yank [1] is someone from North of the
>>Mason-Dixon line. North of the Mason-Dixon it's someone from New
>>England. In New England it's someone from Maine.
>
>As a displaced New Englander, it is my duty to correct this. You mean
>Vermont, not Maine. And in Vermont, a Yankee eats apple pie for
>breakfast.
Absolutely right. I stand corrected.
>
>You know, even though I don't think characterization is usually Steve
>Stirling's strongest point, his depiction of real Yankees in the Sea
>of Time stuff wasn't terrible*.
>
>I can't actually think offhand of any authors who have depicted true
>Yankees much better.
>
>-David
>* This would be high praise indeed from an old time Yankee, someone
>for whom raising an eyebrow in askance is a sign of nearly
>uncontrollable rage.
Snicker. So true.
Joe Slater
>B: Some of us know damn well wnat a merkin is. To the extent that we
> think you all know what a merkin is as well, we're likely to take
> the term as an insult.
>
>C: To the extent that we think that you all think we *don't* know what
> a merkin is, we will certainly take the term as an insult. Deliberate
> and cowardly.
>
>D: What's wrong with "Yank"?
Nothing, as long as you do it in the privacy of your room and wash
your hands afterwards.
jds
--
Joe Slater was but a low-grade paranoiac, whose fantastic notions must
have come from the crude hereditary folk-tales which circulated in even
the most decadent of communities.
_Beyond the Wall of Sleep_ by H P Lovecraft
Steve Taylor
> I consider it an extremely rude pejorative -- apparently, many Americans
> do too, since I've yet to see any of them refer to themselves this way --
> unlike the British, who are comfortable with "Brits" and Australians, with
> "Aussies".
Don't know about the 'extremely' there - I hear it as being more gently
mocking.
I'd be surprised to hear someone form the UK calling themselves a 'Brit'
though - that seems very much something Americans would say.
> I was also informed by
> someone else that it originated as a mispelling for "Mervyn," a notorious
> American troll.
Sounds like nonsense to me. To non-American ears, many Americans say
'American' in a way which sounds pretty close to 'merkin'. That coupled
with a handy pre-existing archiac term for a pubic wig inevitably calls
the term into existence.
Thinking of pejorative thingies, every now and then I read some incensed
American talking about 'Euro-trash'. Now by rubbing my two brain cells
together I can detect some faint hostility to Europeans in there, but
would anyone like to help me out with the finer connotations?
> Ht
Steve
Steve Taylor
> B: Some of us know damn well wnat a merkin is. To the extent that we
> think you all know what a merkin is as well, we're likely to take
> the term as an insult.
>
> C: To the extent that we think that you all think we *don't* know what
> a merkin is, we will certainly take the term as an insult. Deliberate
> and cowardly.
Careful - there's steam coming out of your ears.
> *John Schilling
S./
Steve Taylor
> ii) IMHO the world I live in, where the word pudenda is better known
> ahead of the colloqualism merkin, is certainly the world where the
> majority of people I know live
Firstly, merkin (in the pubic wig sense) is not a colloquialism - more
of an archaism.
As for word obscurity - I'm comfortable with both words, and would
expect most people with good vocabularies to be the same. However,
they're dusty little words that live at the edges of my mental world,
and I probably use them no more often than I use 'tompion' or 'futtock'.
Arguing about which word is more obscure wouldn't be very high on my
list of priorities.
> Mark Watson
Steve
Paul Austin
"Richard Harter" wrote
That we aren't nearly as full of ourselves as you think. Full of other
things sometimes but not that. Some of us can even read.
--
Conscience, that quiet voice that says "Someone may be watching"
Paul F Austin
pau...@digital.net
Lee DeRaud
wrote:
>In article <ka0hmtc77ambgdh4d...@4ax.com>, Lee DeRaud
><lee.d...@boeing.com> writes
>>You know the word 'pudenda' but not the word 'merkin'?!? It's a
>>strange world you live in, son.
>>
>>See http://us.imdb.com/Title?0064123
>
>Two things Lee
>
>i) I find being called 'son' rude and patronising
No problem: everybody chip in two bits each and we'll buy you a sense
of humor.
Lee
Glenn Dowdy
"Bill Snyder" <bsn...@iadfw.net> wrote in message
news:E4130189B5467A2F.A3C93009...@lp.airnews.net...
the Africans, the Mexicans, the Cubans, the Norse, the Poles, ...
Glenn D.
Bill Snyder
No wonder we're so fscked up. Do you suppose we can sue them?
Mark Watson
Austin <pau...@digital.net> writes
>In any case, merkin isn't a colloquialism but rather an antiquarian word,
>Elizabethan in period. Women whose smallpox left them alive but bald, wore
>wigs at both ends.
Thanks for a helpful contribution to my original message which was
specifically about pubic wig merkins. Another contribution by Dorothy J
Heydt pointed out strippers in strip joints employed merkins to avoid
trouble with the authorities during the 70s.
This still leaves me intrigued as to why two SF stories in 1978 referred
to merkins in their pubic sense. Coincidence, or was there a merkin
related incident perhaps that got a lot of media attention (probably in
the USA) in 1977 or in 1978.
David Cowie
>
> D: What's wrong with "Yank"?
>
How about "Gringo"? Does this only refer to Yanks or to any light-skinned
foreigner?
--
David Cowie
Can't beat your computer at chess? Try kickboxing.
Bernard Guerrero
> Just as
> every little hunter/gatherer tribe places themselves at the center of
> the human race by calling themselves "the people" so do Americans
> think of themselves as the only segment of the human race that matters
> and the USA as the only part of the world that one needs to be
> concerned with.
>
It's not? :^)
Bernard
Paul Austin
"Mark Watson" wrote
> Paul Austin writes
> >In any case, merkin isn't a colloquialism but rather an antiquarian word,
> >Elizabethan in period. Women whose smallpox left them alive but bald,
wore
> >wigs at both ends.
>
> Thanks for a helpful contribution to my original message which was
> specifically about pubic wig merkins. Another contribution by Dorothy J
> Heydt pointed out strippers in strip joints employed merkins to avoid
> trouble with the authorities during the 70s.
That's interesting. And odd. In the '70s, strippers could be arrested (in
most jurisdictions) for not wearing some sort of G-string but I never heard
of laws about the presence or absence of fur. But then, my experience in
strip joints wasn't that extensive.
>
> This still leaves me intrigued as to why two SF stories in 1978 referred
> to merkins in their pubic sense. Coincidence, or was there a merkin
> related incident perhaps that got a lot of media attention (probably in
> the USA) in 1977 or in 1978.
None that I recall.
Charles Frederick Goodin
Paul Austin <pau...@digital.net> wrote:
>
>"Mark Watson" wrote
>> Paul Austin writes
>> >In any case, merkin isn't a colloquialism but rather an antiquarian word,
>> >Elizabethan in period. Women whose smallpox left them alive but bald,
>wore
>> >wigs at both ends.
>>
>> Thanks for a helpful contribution to my original message which was
>> specifically about pubic wig merkins. Another contribution by Dorothy J
>> Heydt pointed out strippers in strip joints employed merkins to avoid
>> trouble with the authorities during the 70s.
>
>That's interesting. And odd. In the '70s, strippers could be arrested (in
>most jurisdictions) for not wearing some sort of G-string but I never heard
>of laws about the presence or absence of fur. But then, my experience in
>strip joints wasn't that extensive.
>>
>> This still leaves me intrigued as to why two SF stories in 1978 referred
>> to merkins in their pubic sense. Coincidence, or was there a merkin
>> related incident perhaps that got a lot of media attention (probably in
>> the USA) in 1977 or in 1978.
>
>None that I recall.
There was a rock band called Merkin in the early 70s.
--
chuk
John Schilling
>On Fri, 03 Aug 2001 03:27:12 GMT, c...@tiac.net (Richard Harter) wrote:
>>On 2 Aug 2001 20:04:15 -0700, schi...@spock.usc.edu (John Schilling)
>>wrote:
>>>"Richard Harter" wrote
>>>D: What's wrong with "Yank"?
>>South of the Mason-Dixon line, a yank [1] is someone from North of the
>>Mason-Dixon line. North of the Mason-Dixon it's someone from New
>>England. In New England it's someone from Maine.
>As a displaced New Englander, it is my duty to correct this. You mean
>Vermont, not Maine. And in Vermont, a Yankee eats apple pie for
>breakfast.
Yes, but those are Yankees. "Yank" and "Yankee" are two different words;
I've never heard "Yank" pointed specifically at the South and only rarely
and anachronistically "Yankee" as generic for "American".
John Schilling
>On Fri, 3 Aug 2001 09:23:48 -0600, "Glenn Dowdy"
><glenn...@agilent.com> wrote:
[Americans]
>>> Ah, so we're just like the Brits, and the French, and the Chinese, and
>>> the . . .
>>Actually, we are the Brits and the French and the Chinese, and the Irish,
>>the Africans, the Mexicans, the Cubans, the Norse, the Poles, ...
>No wonder we're so fscked up. Do you suppose we can sue them?
*Sue* them? Where can we line up to *thank* them?
On second thought, let's sue them. They probably think they were doing
us a disservice shipping over all their outcasts; we'd win the lawsuit
and it would be a grand jest coming away with wheelbarrels full of cash
on top of their previous donations of prime human capital.
John Schilling
>On Friday 03 August 2001 3:04 am, John Schilling wrote:
>> D: What's wrong with "Yank"?
>How about "Gringo"? Does this only refer to Yanks or to any light-skinned
>foreigner?
Not sure; it's mostly used in places where pretty much all of the pale
foreigners are Yanks, so hard to tell the differences.
But sure, we'll take it. Yanks, Gringos, no problem.
Robert Sneddon
me...@ozemail.com.au> writes
>
>Thinking of pejorative thingies, every now and then I read some incensed
>American talking about 'Euro-trash'. Now by rubbing my two brain cells
>together I can detect some faint hostility to Europeans in there, but
>would anyone like to help me out with the finer connotations?
"Euro" means "triple-wide". HTH.
--
Robert Sneddon
Jordan S. Bassior
>>Thinking of pejorative thingies, every now and then I read some incensed
>>American talking about 'Euro-trash'. Now by rubbing my two brain cells
>>together I can detect some faint hostility to Europeans in there, but
>>would anyone like to help me out with the finer connotations?
I always assume that it meant shallow, amoral, arrogant incompetent Europeans.
Like the kind who assume they know more about how the world works than us naive
silly Americans, and ignore the fact that our naive silliness has led us to
world dominion.
--
Sincerely Yours,
Jordan
--
"To urge the preparation of defence is not to assert the imminence of war. On
the contrary, if war were imminent, preparations for defense would be too
late." (Churchill, 1934)
--
Mark Evans
: This still leaves me intrigued as to why two SF stories in 1978 referred
: to merkins in their pubic sense. Coincidence, or was there a merkin
: related incident perhaps that got a lot of media attention (probably in
: the USA) in 1977 or in 1978.
There was a bad movie (a musical no less!) with Anthony Newley and Joan
Collins released in the late '60s titled "Can Hyronmus Merkin Forget Merci
Humppe and Find True Happiness?". I suspect that it lodged in many
people's minds, even if it was not welcome.
Also remember that in the late '60s and early '70s there was a lot of
nudity in the arts and a lot of press about it. I remember legit stage
productions with nudity that had the option of "nude suits" for the actors
to wear to keep the police happy. (Imagine taking off your clothes to
show your skin-colored unitard, complete with genitals, body hair, and
muscles painted on.) I know one production I saw in central Ohio in 1970
featured nude scenes and the silk leaves and flowers the cast had to wear
(they were portraying forrest spirits) had to be glued on and did not
stick or wear well.
Mark Evans
--
Mark Evans
Established in 1951.
Joseph Michael Bay
>Steve Taylor said:
>>>Thinking of pejorative thingies, every now and then I read some incensed
>>>American talking about 'Euro-trash'. Now by rubbing my two brain cells
>>>together I can detect some faint hostility to Europeans in there, but
>>>would anyone like to help me out with the finer connotations?
>I always assume that it meant shallow, amoral, arrogant incompetent Europeans.
>Like the kind who assume they know more about how the world works than us naive
>silly Americans, and ignore the fact that our naive silliness has led us to
>world dominion.
It's a New York City thing from the 1980s-1990s referring to
"very rich Milanese who came here and used up everyone's drugs".
They'd wear clothing that was too expensive, too pretentious, and
too tight to look American (or heterosexual and American at any
rate). It's less pejorative than it sounds, but not positive.
--
Joe Bay Cancer Biology www.stanford.edu/~jmbay/
"We are all lying in the gutter, but some of us BLEAAAAGHH, AARGGH HRRRRRRRK"
--Oscar Wilde
Putting the "harm" in molecular pharmacology since 1998.
Htn963
>Don't know about the 'extremely [rude]' there - I hear it as being more gently
>mocking.
But yer an Aussie, mate, an' I hear that US bashing is practically a
national past time in Australia (and Britain). I hope you don't mind if I
take your genial interpretation with a bit of salt.
_Any_ term can be considered gentle -- and even good-natured -- in the
appropriate context. "Nigger" is regularly used between black buddies. But
it's what I hear, not you, that counts, when an appellation is applied to me.
Besides, we can nuke the snot out of you, but not vice versa. Obligatory
smiley. GO USA!!!
>I'd be surprised to hear someone form the UK calling themselves a 'Brit'
>though - that seems very much something Americans would say.
No, I'm acquainted with several people from the UK who regularly refer to
themselves as "Brit." ISTR Carol Hague in this newsgroup referring to herself
as such -- check google.
>> I was also informed by
>> someone else that it originated as a mispelling for "Mervyn," a notorious
>> American troll.
>
>Sounds like nonsense to me.
It most likely is.
>To non-American ears, many Americans say
>'American' in a way which sounds pretty close to 'merkin'.
Eh, that's a bit of a stretch. Americans pronounce the "mer" in
"American" like the French "merde," to rhyme with "bear," not like the "mur"
in "murder," which is how "mer" in "merkin" is pronounced.
>That coupled
>with a handy pre-existing archiac term for a pubic wig inevitably calls
>the term into existence.
Of course, how could you overseas people pass up an opportunity like that?
>Thinking of pejorative thingies, every now and then I read some incensed
>American talking about 'Euro-trash'. Now by rubbing my two brain cells
>together I can detect some faint hostility to Europeans in there, but
>would anyone like to help me out with the finer connotations?
Well, "Euro" could stand for "worthless," like the upcoming "Eurocent."
But seriously, that term is usually applied to a subset of Europeans who are
effete, decadent, and ineffectual. We have our own subset of "white-trash".
BTW, is vegemite toxic?
> Steve
Ht
Richard Harter
wrote:
I see. Whose is this "we" that you refer to and what is it that you
think that I think?
Jyrki Valkama
> Like the kind who assume they know more about how the world works than us naive
> silly Americans, and ignore the fact that our naive silliness has led us to
> world dominion.
You know, the last part in no way contradicts first part of your sentence.
--
Jyrki Valkama
GSV Three Minds in a Can
plonker Jordan S. Bassior <jsba...@aol.com> said
>>>Thinking of pejorative thingies, every now and then I read some incensed
>>>American talking about 'Euro-trash'. Now by rubbing my two brain cells
>>>together I can detect some faint hostility to Europeans in there, but
>>>would anyone like to help me out with the finer connotations?
>
>I always assume that it meant shallow, amoral, arrogant incompetent Europeans.
>Like the kind who assume they know more about how the world works than us naive
>silly Americans, and ignore the fact that our naive silliness has led us to
>world dominion.
That'll be the Merkin definition of 'world' then .. bounded on the west
by the Pacific and the of the east by the Atlantic, and extending South
to about Panama??
--
GSV Three Minds in a Can
Edward McArdle
Schilling) wrote:
>
>D: What's wrong with "Yank"?
Well, there's rhyming slang.
Should you hear an Australian referring to a "septic tank"....
Sydney Webb
<snip>
> D: What's wrong with "Yank"?
In some dialects 'yank' can be a verb, with a fairly rude meaning.
The proper noun form would be 'Yanker'.
HTH
ObSF: David Gerrold's _The Man Who Folded Himself_
- Syd
Jordan S. Bassior
>Jordan S. Bassior <jsba...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>> Like the kind who assume they know more about how the world works than us
naive
>> silly Americans, and ignore the fact that our naive silliness has led us to
>> world dominion.
>
>You know, the last part in no way contradicts first part of your sentence.
Only if you assume that ignorance is no obstacle to success.
Now, I can see why it would flatter Europeans to _imagine_ this. But I'm under
no obligation to buy into that nonsense.
Jordan S. Bassior
>That'll be the Merkin definition of 'world' then .. bounded on the west
>by the Pacific and the of the east by the Atlantic, and extending South
>to about Panama??
Pubic wigs are of little importance in the modern world, so I have very little
notion of what you mean by your claim that they define any part of it.
Jordan S. Bassior
Just Not Getting It. We of course do not "dominate" the world as Rome dominated
her Empire, but we _do_ "dominate" the world to a greater degree than any
nation or empire ever did before. More so than, for instance, Britain did in
the 19th century.
It's really amazing the way that Europeans will go through all sorts of verbal
gymnastics to avoid facing this reality -- which goes to show that it _still_
hurts them to think about the fact that European nations once dominated the
world, and lost this leadership through their own collective cultural
stupidity. In particular, the folly of glorifying war, even objectless war.
beepers
"Htn963" <htn...@cs.com> wrote in message
news:20010803231046...@ng-fw1.news.cs.com...
> Steve Taylor wrote:
> >To non-American ears, many Americans say
> >'American' in a way which sounds pretty close to 'merkin'.
>
> Eh, that's a bit of a stretch. Americans pronounce the "mer" in
> "American" like the French "merde," to rhyme with "bear," not like the
"mur"
> in "murder," which is how "mer" in "merkin" is pronounced.
>
re-enactments of those Fireside Chats and State of the Nation type speeches
of US Presidents, often incorporating the line "Muh fallow Murrkens". There
are many different US accents and to non US ears, at least some of them do
render 'American' into 'merkin', or better, "murrken". (Perhaps that last
vowel ought to be the upside 'e' thingy (schwa) they use in phonetics, but
you get the idea.) I can't recall which ones in particular, but maybe
Nixon? Harrison Ford? I don't think President Martin Sheen would say it,
but he's supposed to be New Hampshire or something, isn't he?
It's not pejorative, just tongue in cheek.
Canadians, that's a different story. They do the merde thing alrighty ;-)
Andy Leighton
>Steve Taylor wrote:
>>I'd be surprised to hear someone form the UK calling themselves a 'Brit'
>>though - that seems very much something Americans would say.
>
> No, I'm acquainted with several people from the UK who regularly refer to
>themselves as "Brit." ISTR Carol Hague in this newsgroup referring to
>herself as such -- check google.
As another data point, I have never called myself a Brit, and although I
often hear it on TV and from certain people I still cringe. I do not
consider that there is such a nationality as British - I am English.
Mamy of my Scots and Welsh friends believe the same.
If you can't laugh at a piece of harmless word-play as merkin (and I first saw
it used some years back in alt.fan.pratchett where it was used a lot by
Americans) you must be quite a humourless induhvidual.
--
Andy Leighton => an...@azaal.dircon.co.uk
"... January is your third most common month for madness" - _Sarah Canary_
Captain Button
Well there is that famous map from the "New Yorker" of a few years
back, and various other versions of the concept.
[ Titled something like "A New Yorker's view of the world",
half the map is taken up by manhattan, adjoining states take up 30%
more, etc, with little blobs of "Japan" "Russia" and "China" at the
top in the distance. ]
ObSF: I think a copy of this map is mentioned in _Doon_ by Elias
Werner
--
"Gee, who'd a thunk it? Turns out alien superintelligence is
no match for our Earthly can-do spunk." - Jane Lane, "Daria"
Captain Button - [ but...@io.com ]
Jim Toth
[snip "merkin" as a shorthand for citizens of the USA]
> I consider it an extremely rude pejorative -- apparently, many Americans
>do too, since I've yet to see any of them refer to themselves this way --
I have, FWIW.
--
Jim Toth
jt...@acm.org
GSV Three Minds in a Can
>Just Not Getting It. We of course do not "dominate" the world as Rome dominated
>her Empire, but we _do_ "dominate" the world to a greater degree than any
>nation or empire ever did before. More so than, for instance, Britain did in
>the 19th century.
You really don't have a clue Jordan. Go visit China (the largest slice
of the world's population), or India (#2, iirc) and see how 'dominated'
by America they appear to be.
The USA is undoubtedly economic #1, and the worlds largest producer of
pollution, bad soap opera, and Internet idiocy, but few people (other
than you) would regard that as 'dominating the world'.
--
Bill Woods
> On Fri, 03 Aug 2001 03:27:12 GMT, c...@tiac.net (Richard Harter) wrote:
>
> >On 2 Aug 2001 20:04:15 -0700, schi...@spock.usc.edu (John Schilling)
> >wrote:
> >>
> >>"Richard Harter" wrote
> >>
> >>D: What's wrong with "Yank"?
> >
> >South of the Mason-Dixon line, a yank [1] is someone from North of the
> >Mason-Dixon line. North of the Mason-Dixon it's someone from New
> >England. In New England it's someone from Maine.
>
> As a displaced New Englander, it is my duty to correct this. You mean
> Vermont, not Maine. And in Vermont, a Yankee eats apple pie for
> breakfast.
I don't think it's that localized.
ObSF: Twain's Yankee was from the Nutmeg State.
>
>
> You know, even though I don't think characterization is usually Steve
> Stirling's strongest point, his depiction of real Yankees in the Sea
> of Time stuff wasn't terrible*.
>
> I can't actually think offhand of any authors who have depicted true
> Yankees much better.
Hiram Taine, in Simak's "The Big Front Yard", seemed pretty fair.
>
>
> -David
> * This would be high praise indeed from an old time Yankee, someone
> for whom raising an eyebrow in askance is a sign of nearly
> uncontrollable rage.
--
Bill Woods
"...Samuel Langhorne Clemens came to Brattleboro to give
one of his famous humorous lectures. According to the story
the response was not what 'Mark Twain' thought it should be.
He stopped talking a little ahead of schedule, went out the
stage entrance and around front to see if he could find out
what the trouble was and is reported to have found out in
short order.
Out came a nice old couple who had driven down from their
hill farm with the horse and buggy, and he heard the old
gentleman say to his wife, 'Wan't he funny? Wan't he *funny!*
I had all I could do to keep from laughing.'"
Bill Woods
> In article <AEB083FE378FAAB3.6583A547...@lp.airnews.net>,
> Bill Snyder <bsn...@iadfw.net> wrote:
> >If I'm remembering the credits correctly (don't think the name was
> >ever mentioned in dialogue), the President of the US in _Dr.
> >Strangelove_ was . . . wait for it . . . Merkin Muffley.
>
> It wasn't the only sex related names in Dr Strangelove.
>
> General Buck Turgidson
> Ambassador Alexi De Sadesky (De Sade being the original sadist of course)
> General Jack D. Ripper
> Primer Kissoff
Plus of course the title character. I've never been
able to make out his original name, '<Etwas-etwas>liebe'.
--
Bill Woods
"The positive effects of a monarchy are indistinguishable
from those of a sufficiently large ziggurat."
-- Homerick's Law
Jordan S. Bassior
>Jordan S. Bassior said:
>
>>But y'know, GSV's comment is downright funny, as an illustration of someone
>>Just Not Getting It. We of course do not "dominate" the world as Rome
dominated
>>her Empire, but we _do_ "dominate" the world to a greater degree than any
>>nation or empire ever did before. More so than, for instance, Britain did in
>>the 19th century.
>
>You really don't have a clue Jordan. Go visit China (the largest slice
>of the world's population), or India (#2, iirc) and see how 'dominated'
>by America they appear to be.
How is your argument a counter to my statement? I just said that we don't
dominate the world in a direct political sense, but instead in the manner that
Britain did in the 19th century, only more so. Do you know how Britain
dominated the world in the 19th century?
>The USA is undoubtedly economic #1, and the worlds largest producer of
>pollution, bad soap opera, and Internet idiocy, but few people (other
>than you) would regard that as 'dominating the world'.
The US is also the leading military power, which is _why_ in general we _are_
regarded as being "dominant."
Pardoz
wrote:
> How about "Gringo"? Does this only refer to Yanks or to any light-skinned
> foreigner?
Yes. There's some variance in local usage(*)/degree of pejorativeness,
but it generally scans as "extra-continental(**) foreigners in general,
especially those from the US." cf "Moslem" or "Turk" for anyone of Middle
Eastern derivation, and "Hindu" for anyone from the Indian subcontinent.
(*) Cuba is an intriguing case, as "gringo" is often used to refer
specifically to Canadians.
(**) Mexico aside, but then, NAFTA aside, most Mexicans don't consider
themselves North American.
ObSF: Did anybody else ever wonder if Niven & Pournell's Moties got
offended by the word "Motie", given how seriously balkanized they are?
--
RESPECTABILITY, n. The offspring of a _liaison_ between a bald head and a
bank account.
Jordan S. Bassior
>ObSF: Did anybody else ever wonder if Niven & Pournell's Moties got
>offended by the word "Motie", given how seriously balkanized they are?
I don't think they would be -- they specifically _aren't_ stupid _in that way_.
Captain Button
[ snip ]
> ObSF: Did anybody else ever wonder if Niven & Pournell's Moties got
> offended by the word "Motie", given how seriously balkanized they are?
Only Mediators would be aware of this and possible connotations.
They wouldn't bother passing that information to other Moties.
They also wouldn't worry about it, since the essence of being
a Mediator is to make deals based on actualities. Words are just
words. "Sticks and Bricks [1] may break my non-vertebrate bones,
but names will never hurt me."
Of course, if a Mediator realized that she was dealing with
a bleeding heart type who could be thrown off balance by
indignant posturing and playing the "species card", she would
use that to gain an advantage for her clan.
[1] Stones will be rare in the Mote system, since most everything
has been used as building material at one time or another.
Alan Barclay
Bill Woods <wwo...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
[on Dr Strangelove]
>Plus of course the title character. I've never been
>able to make out his original name, '<Etwas-etwas>liebe'.
Merkwurdigliebe - Which is German for Strangelove.
Htn963
> . . Not at all. I bet Elvis said "murrken". We've all heard audio or
>re-enactments of those Fireside Chats and State of the Nation type speeches
>of US Presidents, often incorporating the line "Muh fallow Murrkens".
To some ears it may, but I always hear those as "Merrkens."
>There are many different US accents and to non US ears, at least some of them
do
>render 'American' into 'merkin', or better, "murrken". (Perhaps that last
>vowel ought to be the upside 'e' thingy (schwa) they use in phonetics, but
>you get the idea.)
Sure, "mer" is voiced with a schwa in some variant like "Amerasians."
But the officially correct way to voice "mer" in Americans is just that, _
not_ "mur." To seize on a regional and minority variant to justify the
usage of "merkin" is a stretch. And of course, this may just be that y'all
are overly eager to make use of pubic wigs to describe us.
> I can't recall which ones in particular, but maybe
>Nixon? Harrison Ford? I don't think President Martin Sheen would say it,
>but he's supposed to be New Hampshire or something, isn't he?
Heh, President Ronald Reagan?
>It's not pejorative, just tongue in cheek.
Uh huh. You like to think that because you're on the giving end.
BTW, is vegemite toxic?
>Canadians, that's a different story. They do the merde thing alrighty ;-)
Canadians usually (and rightly) call us Yanks. Probably because they
actually like and respect us and/or they are right next to us and don't want
to piss us off.
Ht
Htn963
>As another data point, I have never called myself a Brit, and although I
>often hear it on TV and from certain people I still cringe.
Well, I'll respect _your_ feelings enough not to call _you_ a Brit then.
Happy now?
> I do not
>consider that there is such a nationality as British - I am English.
>Mamy of my Scots and Welsh friends believe the same.
Hmm, but then "English Empire" doesn't have that ring to it that "British
Empire" does. Oh, but of course, you don't have an empire anymore.
The only other time someone has objected to my use of "Brit" is that
he's relocated to the Isle of Man and now consider himself Manx. I note that
both these objection are based on regional accuracy, not that it's inherently
offensive.
>If you can't laugh at a piece of harmless word-play as merkin (and I first
>saw
>it used some years back in alt.fan.pratchett where it was used a lot by
>Americans) you must be quite a humourless induhvidual.
Tsk, you don't know me well enough to make judgments on my humour based on
a single objection of word usage my fine _English_ fellow.
I also googled alt.fan.pratchett and saw that the only recent use of
"merkin" has been made by posters with the "uk" suffix to their email address.
Care to let me know who these Americans who blithely use "merkin" are?
BTW, I've read most of Terry Pratchett's books. My favorite is _Small
Gods_.
>Andy Leighton =>
Ht
Jyrki Valkama
> Jyrki Valkama said:
>>Jordan S. Bassior <jsba...@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Like the kind who assume they know more about how the world works than us
> naive
>>> silly Americans, and ignore the fact that our naive silliness has led us to
>>> world dominion.
>>
>>You know, the last part in no way contradicts first part of your sentence.
> Only if you assume that ignorance is no obstacle to success.
On the contrary, ignorance can be in many cases actually be the reason
for success.
> Now, I can see why it would flatter Europeans to _imagine_ this. But I'm under
> no obligation to buy into that nonsense.
Maybe that's because you are ignorant about ignorance of Columbus about
the true size of Earth, but then he was a merkin hero.
--
Jyrki Valkama
Nancy Lebovitz
Htn963 <htn...@cs.com> wrote:
>
> Eh, that's a bit of a stretch. Americans pronounce the "mer" in
>"American" like the French "merde," to rhyme with "bear," not like the "mur"
>in "murder," which is how "mer" in "merkin" is pronounced.
>
long way up and down) country, and we have more than one accent.
I pronounce American as "ah-murr-i-can". The second 'a' is the Delaware
slightly nasal 'a' which apparently must be heard to be believed even
if not to be enjoyed.
I pronounce "bear" so that it rhymes with "air". The "mer" in American
rhymes with "fur".
OBSF: I can't think of anything in sf quite as silly as trying to
express exact accents in ascii when there's no solid frame of
reference, but there's a minor golden age story about trying to
convey left and right by radio to someone stranded on cloud-covered Venus.
--
Nancy Lebovitz na...@netaxs.com www.nancybuttons.com
Graham White
<oha...@rcn.com> wrote:
>Htn963 wrote:
>>
>> "Terry Austin" wrote:
>>
>> >You've been on the Internet - and Usenet - for how long, and
>> >never heard "merkin"? It's a perversion of American, and
>> >I see it quite a lot from folks across the pond.
>>
>> I consider it an extremely rude pejorative -- apparently, many Americans
>> do too, since I've yet to see any of them refer to themselves this way --
>> unlike the British, who are comfortable with "Brits" and Australians, with
>> "Aussies".
>>
>I have no problem with the term "Merkin" to describe my fellow
>citizens. I strongly suspect that you're a Red Canadian agitator
>trying to sow discord between anglophone countries.
I think you folks are confusing the work 'merkin' which is a female
pubic wig and the work 'merican' which is merely an abbreviation of
the word 'American'
I have heard folks from the rebel Colonies called many things, both
affectionate and perjoritive, but I have never ever heard anyone refer
to them as female pubic wigs!
BTW weren't the spider things in Pandora's Box/Pandora's World by
Christopher Anvil called merkins?
Cheers
Graham White B.Sc. (Herb. Med.), MNIMH
Medical Herbalist
Bishops Stortford & Buntingford
--------------------------------
Andy Leighton
>>If you can't laugh at a piece of harmless word-play as merkin (and I first
>>saw
>>it used some years back in alt.fan.pratchett where it was used a lot by
>>Americans) you must be quite a humourless induhvidual.
>
> Tsk, you don't know me well enough to make judgments on my humour based on
>a single objection of word usage my fine _English_ fellow.
Well that one sentence does show that you do have a feel for humour.
Seriously to most of the rest of the world, Americans do seem to be
rather over-protective of their nation's image and tend to take offence
where none was intended.
> I also googled alt.fan.pratchett and saw that the only recent use of
>"merkin" has been made by posters with the "uk" suffix to their email
>address.
> Care to let me know who these Americans who blithely use "merkin" are?
Can't remember now. It was 6 or 7 years ago at the very least.
Indeed merkin was used widely enough to feature in Colette Reap's
description of a.f.p in 1995.
Quick google groups searches show that it was widely used in 1985/86
by Americans in a.f.p (google only goes back to 1985).
A search on teoma yields up the following web site
http://www.alt-usage-english.org/excerpts/fxmerkin.html which seems to
indicate that Matthew Crosby (who had a US email address) was the original
person to start using merkin on a.f.p. It also mentions a source in the
early 1960s.
> BTW, I've read most of Terry Pratchett's books. My favorite is _Small
>Gods_.
Yep - mine too.
Captain Button
[ snip ]
> BTW, is vegemite toxic?
And does it go off?
I've had an opened jar of vegemite in my cupboard for several years
now, which hints at how impressed I was with it.
Paul Austin
"Captain Button" ...
> Htn963 wrote:
>
> [ snip ]
>
> > BTW, is vegemite toxic?
>
> And does it go off?
>
> I've had an opened jar of vegemite in my cupboard for several years
> now, which hints at how impressed I was with it.
Yeah, it's been known to go off. The stuff undergoes a phase change after
exposed to air and becomes vibration sensitive. Use a pair of long tongs and
carefully take it outside and bury deeply.
--
"Enlisted men are stupid, but extremely cunning and sly, and bear
considerable watching."
Paul F Austin
pau...@digital.net
Bill Snyder
<but...@bermuda.io.com> wrote:
>Wild-eyed conspiracy theorists insist that on 05 Aug 2001 07:02:01 GMT, Htn963 <htn...@cs.com> wrote:
>
>[ snip ]
>
>> BTW, is vegemite toxic?
>
>And does it go off?
>
>I've had an opened jar of vegemite in my cupboard for several years
>now, which hints at how impressed I was with it.
It seems to me you could settle both these vital scientific questions
pretty easily, then. Is the jar surrounded by dead roaches? If so,
did they start turning up immediately after you opened it, or did it
take a while?
--
Bill Snyder [This space unintentionally left blank.]
Phil Fraering
> *Sue* them? Where can we line up to *thank* them?
> On second thought, let's sue them. They probably think they were doing
> us a disservice shipping over all their outcasts; we'd win the lawsuit
> and it would be a grand jest coming away with wheelbarrels full of cash
> on top of their previous donations of prime human capital.
There's this cartoon I've seen: a snake is coiled on a barstool, his
head and part of his neck/body reaching upward towards a beer. The
guy next to him has a scowl on his face, and is making the statement
in the caption, "Oh, give me a break, being run out of Ireland was
the best thing that ever happened to you."
--
Phil Fraering "Do you like country music? So do I, and I
p...@globalreach.net sure do miss it..." -KBON radio announcer
James Nicoll
Htn963 <htn...@cs.com> wrote:
>
> Canadians usually (and rightly) call us Yanks. Probably because they
>actually like and respect us and/or they are right next to us and don't want
>to piss us off.
Heh. You are not as familiar with Canadian thought and practice
as you think you are. Did they show the Rick Mercer special (where he talks
to Americans) south of the border?
I could tell you what word is used in Canada to refer to people
from the USA in a negative way but you wouldn't like and it might start
a flame war.
Huh. Not really suitable for an ObSF. Lots of insulting names
for groups in SF but not many sfnal nations with variable labels for
themselves. A really awful pun on the subject from Poul Anderson, though.
One man's Mede is another man's Persian.
I think that has been burned into my frontal lobes for two
decades. The agony, the agony.
Joe Slater
Captain Button <but...@bermuda.io.com> wrote:>
>And does it go off?
>
>I've had an opened jar of vegemite in my cupboard for several years
>now, which hints at how impressed I was with it.
I don't *think* it goes off, but it does become harder to spread. Do
USAns have a salty spread? Brits have Marmite, yuk, and Australians
have Vegemite, but do USAns have anything savory on their sandwiches?
jds
--
Joe Slater was but a low-grade paranoiac, whose fantastic notions must
have come from the crude hereditary folk-tales which circulated in even
the most decadent of communities.
_Beyond the Wall of Sleep_ by H P Lovecraft
Paul Austin
"Joe Slater" wrote
> >Wild-eyed conspiracy theorists insist that Htn963 wrote:
> >> BTW, is vegemite toxic?
>
> Captain Button <but...@bermuda.io.com> wrote:>
> >And does it go off?
> >
> >I've had an opened jar of vegemite in my cupboard for several years
> >now, which hints at how impressed I was with it.
>
> I don't *think* it goes off, but it does become harder to spread. Do
> USAns have a salty spread? Brits have Marmite, yuk, and Australians
> have Vegemite, but do USAns have anything savory on their sandwiches?
Peanut butter is _our_ gift to the world. Baja Oklahomans probably claim
chili.
--
"Whatever happens will be for the worse and
therefore it is in our interest that
as little should happen as possible."
Paul F Austin
pau...@digital.net
David Eppstein
Joe Slater <joeDEL...@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au> wrote:
> I don't *think* it goes off, but it does become harder to spread. Do
> USAns have a salty spread? Brits have Marmite, yuk, and Australians
> have Vegemite, but do USAns have anything savory on their sandwiches?
Peanut butter?
--
David Eppstein UC Irvine Dept. of Information & Computer Science
epps...@ics.uci.edu http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/
Zara Baxter
<joeDEL...@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au> scrawled:
>>Wild-eyed conspiracy theorists insist that on 05 Aug 2001 07:02:01 GMT, Htn963 <htn...@cs.com> wrote:
>>> BTW, is vegemite toxic?
It might give you gout, if you ate enough of it. Uric acid in
reasonable levels.
>Captain Button <but...@bermuda.io.com> wrote:>
>>And does it go off?
>>
>>I've had an opened jar of vegemite in my cupboard for several years
>>now, which hints at how impressed I was with it.
>
>I don't *think* it goes off, but it does become harder to spread.
It goes darker, and becomes slightly rubbery.
I'm pretty sure nothing can grow on it (water availability too low);
although if you dilute it and add sugar it makes a great food for
fruit flies.
Zara Baxter
--
Currently reading _The Dying Earth_ by Jack Vance,and __The Kings Peace_ by Jo Walton
by Jan Siegel. Just read: _Prosperos Children_, _Lud in the Mist_ and _Bridget Jone's Diary_.
Gene Wirchenko
[snip]
> Canadians usually (and rightly) call us Yanks. Probably because they
>actually like and respect us and/or they are right next to us and don't want
>to piss us off.
We do? It's mainly "Americans" in my experience. I use
"Usonians" on the Net and usually something with "U.S." in it orally.
I don't like you as a people, but tolerate you. You're much too
brash and self-centered for my taste. I'd like to see you people
acknowledge accomplishments of others more. It's fine to be proud of
your own, but remember that you aren't the only ones with people who
accomplish.
Canadians are the quiet North Americans.
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko
Computerese Irregular Verb Conjugation:
I have preferences.
You have biases.
He/She has prejudices.
Pardoz
> Pardoz said:
>
>>ObSF: Did anybody else ever wonder if Niven & Pournell's Moties got
>>offended by the word "Motie", given how seriously balkanized they are?
>
> I don't think they would be -- they specifically _aren't_ stupid _in that
>way_.
Mediators (as somebody else pointed out), no. Masters, OTOH? I
suspect that (assuming some unkind soul explained things) they'd hit the
roof.
--
FUTURE, n. That period of time in which our affairs prosper, our friends are
true and our happiness is assured.
Htn963
>Heh. You are not as familiar with Canadian thought and practice
>as you think you are.
Like you are with US thought and practice? Heh.
> Did they show the Rick Mercer special (where he talks
>to Americans) south of the border?
Never heard of it. Elaborate?
> I could tell you what word is used in Canada to refer to people
>from the USA in a negative way but you wouldn't like and it might start
>a flame war.
I'm under no illusion that you Canadians bore US any great love lost,
Mr. Nicoll. I just said that you were generally considerate enough not to
call US offensive terms in a public forum. But email that delightful word to
me if you wish.
We tend to think of Canadians as being all like the McKenzie brothers and
have our own "affectionate" terms for you. But, of course, if our terms
are just used in private, then we'll all be just fine.
> Huh. Not really suitable for an ObSF. Lots of insulting names
>for groups in SF but not many sfnal nations with variable labels for
>themselves. A really awful pun on the subject from Poul Anderson, though.
>
>
> One man's Mede is another man's Persian.
Two Wongs don't make a Wright.
> I think that has been burned into my frontal lobes for two
>decades. The agony, the agony.
You forgot your sig.
Ht
Klyfix
<pau...@digital.net> writes:
>
>"Joe Slater" wrote
>> >Wild-eyed conspiracy theorists insist that Htn963 wrote:
>> >> BTW, is vegemite toxic?
>>
>> Captain Button <but...@bermuda.io.com> wrote:>
>> >And does it go off?
>> >
>> >I've had an opened jar of vegemite in my cupboard for several years
>> >now, which hints at how impressed I was with it.
>>
>> I don't *think* it goes off, but it does become harder to spread. Do
>> USAns have a salty spread? Brits have Marmite, yuk, and Australians
>> have Vegemite, but do USAns have anything savory on their sandwiches?
>
>Peanut butter is _our_ gift to the world. Baja Oklahomans probably claim
>chili.
Peanut butter isn't as _scary_ as vegemite though; it actually looks
edible, after all. There must be something we Americans eat that
horrifies the rest of the world, isn't there?
V. S. Greene : kly...@aol.com : Boston, near Arkham...
Eckzylon: http://m1.aol.com/klyfix/eckzylon.html
RPG and SF, predictions, philosophy, and other things.
"It's not like Sioux Falls"-A guy on the Boston subway.
Klyfix
Wirchenko) writes:
>
> We do? It's mainly "Americans" in my experience. I use
>"Usonians" on the Net and usually something with "U.S." in it orally.
>
> I don't like you as a people, but tolerate you. You're much too
>brash and self-centered for my taste. I'd like to see you people
>acknowledge accomplishments of others more. It's fine to be proud of
>your own, but remember that you aren't the only ones with people who
>accomplish.
>
Well, the US has the virtue of having been remarkably lucky in being
able to relatively easily colonize/steal a really rich huge plot of
land, and having a culture allowing for a lot of progress.
On the other hand, there's a tendancy to assume Moral Superiority
to the rest of the world (convieniently downplaying that whole theft
thing, and slavery, and other things), and to assume that our power
and prosperity is only because we're somehow Superior rather than
largely because we have a huge amount of rich land that's not
overwhelmed by our comparitively moderate population. An
unwarrented arrogance.
> Canadians are the quiet North Americans.
Sure would seem to be, although to be sure I'm not sure there
would be much for you folk to gain by being louder.
Htn963
>Um, America is a continent spanning (the short way across, not the
>long way up and down) country, and we have more than one accent.
Well, duh, of course.
>I pronounce American as "ah-murr-i-can". The second 'a' is the Delaware
>slightly nasal 'a' which apparently must be heard to be believed even
>if not to be enjoyed.
But...but... that's not how most Americans pronounce it. It's not the
officially sanctioned, blessed, and prescribed version. It's anathema,
freakish, and in the words of the Walkers of the World, belong to descriptivist
"wandering hoodlums"!!!
>I pronounce "bear" so that it rhymes with "air".
Eh? So do I. I don't get your point here.
> The "mer" in American rhymes with "fur".
Nope, check your dictionary: if it was it would be represented
phonetically by a schwa or as "mur, " not as simply "mer."
And what's this about "fur," eh? Was that a Freudian slip?
>OBSF: I can't think of anything in sf quite as silly as trying to
>express exact accents in ascii when there's no solid frame of
>reference, but there's a minor golden age story about trying to
>convey left and right by radio to someone stranded on cloud-covered Venus.
Sounds like a good story. But that OB reference is also a stretch.
>Nancy Lebovitz na...@netaxs.com www.nancybuttons.com
Ht
Bill Snyder
>Peanut butter isn't as _scary_ as vegemite though; it actually looks
>edible, after all. There must be something we Americans eat that
>horrifies the rest of the world, isn't there?
Grits?
Jeffrey C. Dege
>Nancy Lebovitz wrote:
>
>> The "mer" in American rhymes with "fur".
>
> Nope, check your dictionary: if it was it would be represented
>phonetically by a schwa or as "mur, " not as simply "mer."
The schwa sound was invented by lazy easterners. In the midwest, among
the educated farmers (and in Illinois and Iowa, the farmers are better
educated that the factory workers in the towns), the schwa is _never_
used.
We don't use glottal stops in names like Morten (Mor'unh - gads!), either.
Every vowel is pronounced as written, even if very softly stressed.
It's what's comes from being literate.
--
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.1
GCS d- s+:++ a+ C+++$ UL+++ P--- L+++ E--- W-- N++ o-- K+++ w--- O@ M--
V-- PS+ PE Y+ PGP t--- a-5 X-- R- tv b++++ DI++++ D++ G+ e++> h+
r* y*
-----END GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Jaquandor
>>edible, after all. There must be something we Americans eat that
>>horrifies the rest of the world, isn't there?
I don't think it's specifically American, but there is always broccoli. I
cannot conceive of a more vile food product than broccoli, and that includes
some of the items they ingest on that "Fear Factor" TV show.
--
-Jaquandor
"Art, music and philosophy are poignant examples of what we might have been,
had the priests and traders not got hold of us." --George Carlin
Karen Williams
> Peanut butter isn't as _scary_ as vegemite though; it actually looks
> edible, after all. There must be something we Americans eat that
> horrifies the rest of the world, isn't there?
I was in Japan a couple of years ago talking to some engineers, and
the topic of "disgusting foods" came up. (I don't like sashimi, which
started the topic.) One of the engineers who had lived in the U.S. as
well turned to the others and told them, in the same tone of voice
that an American would use to say someone else ate bugs, "Over there,
they eat peanut butter, and jam, on bread." The others looked horrified
and said, "Eeewwww." So to some people, peanut butter is pretty darn
horrifying.
Karen Williams
James Nicoll
Htn963 <htn...@cs.com> wrote:
>James Nicoll wrote:
>
>>Heh. You are not as familiar with Canadian thought and practice
>>as you think you are.
>
> Like you are with US thought and practice? Heh.
>
>> Did they show the Rick Mercer special (where he talks
>>to Americans) south of the border?
>
> Never heard of it. Elaborate?
>
one point highly placed people in the Bush campaign) questions where
the correct answer isn't to agree or disagree but to point out the
question itself is screwed up, like congratulating Canada on its
national igloo or getting the current President's people to make it
clear they had no idea who the PM of Canada was.
The interesting thing is, it's the _kids_ who are willing
to speak up and point out the questions are trick questions. You
can see the adults clearing thinking something is wrong but not
willing to say so on camera.
The catagory of Americans who seem the easiest to trick
are the politicians. Wouldn't work up here because _everybody_
knows who the _This Hour Has Twenty Two Minutes_ people are, and
that goes double for our politicians, who have a love/hate
relationship with THH22M. Well, except for Stockwell Day, that's
pretty much a hate/hate relationship after THH22M reacted to
SD's vow to obey the result of referendums by running a special
THH22M referendum proposing Day change his first name to Doris,
gathering a _lot_ of votes (Over a million, I think) very quickly.
ObSF: Dunno. Lots of media stuff but very little where
the idea is to laugh people into oblivion. Dean Ing's _Soft Targets_,
maybe.
Steve Taylor
> Peanut butter isn't as _scary_ as vegemite though; it actually looks
> edible, after all. There must be something we Americans eat that
> horrifies the rest of the world, isn't there?
Heaps of scary artificial food products - Miracle Whip and other
assorted goo-in-a-spraycan items. Some of the super sugary breakfast
cereals. Pizza in Chicago. That sort of thing...
> V. S. Greene
Steve
Arian Hokin
I'd conjecture that it wasn't "peanut butter, and jam," but "peanut butter
and jam [together]" The peanut-butter-and-jelly sandwich is the horror of
the civilised world.
Arian
Robert A. Woodward
kly...@aol.comedy (Klyfix) wrote:
> In article <00kb7.215402$2O6.14...@news2.aus1.giganews.com>, "Paul Austin"
> <pau...@digital.net> writes:
>
> >
> >"Joe Slater" wrote
> >> >Wild-eyed conspiracy theorists insist that Htn963 wrote:
> >> >> BTW, is vegemite toxic?
> >>
> >> Captain Button <but...@bermuda.io.com> wrote:>
> >> >And does it go off?
<snip>
> >>
> >> I don't *think* it goes off, but it does become harder to spread. Do
> >> USAns have a salty spread? Brits have Marmite, yuk, and Australians
> >> have Vegemite, but do USAns have anything savory on their sandwiches?
> >
> >Peanut butter is _our_ gift to the world. Baja Oklahomans probably claim
> >chili.
>
> Peanut butter isn't as _scary_ as vegemite though; it actually looks
> edible, after all. There must be something we Americans eat that
> horrifies the rest of the world, isn't there?
I suspect what we do to cheese would horrify some people.
--
robe...@halcyon.com http://www.halcyon.com/robertaw/
rawoo...@aol.com
Luke Webber
news:3B6E16B2...@holly.northnet.com.au...
Too true. Peanut butter and jelly sandwiches were my first thought when I
read Klyfix's comment above. Try giving a jar of Goober Grape to a
non-American and come back a year later. It'll still be there, unopened,
probably prominently displayed where people can marvel at it, like some grim
memento-mori from the Amazon. ;^)
OTOH, Vegemite comes as naturally to an Aussie kid as mother's milk. My 9YO
would have long since starved to death but for Vegemite. It's practically
all she'll accept on a sandwich or on toast. It's good for you too. And did
you know that the yeast in Vegemite is a by-product that Kraft buy from
breweries? No wonder they like it so much!
Luke
Jordan S. Bassior
>On the contrary, ignorance can be in many cases actually be the reason
>for success.
What was America "ignorant" of that contributed to our success?
(Hint: when being ignorant of something increases one's survivability, then
that something is probably an untruth).
--
Sincerely Yours,
Jordan
--
"To urge the preparation of defence is not to assert the imminence of war. On
the contrary, if war were imminent, preparations for defense would be too
late." (Churchill, 1934)
--
Phil Anderson
>Peanut butter isn't as _scary_ as vegemite though; it actually looks
>edible, after all.
Doesn't _taste_ edible, though!
> There must be something we Americans eat that
>horrifies the rest of the world, isn't there?
McDonalds?
Well, it horrifies those who like good food, anyway. Shame they seem
to be a minority...
Phil
John Hill
>> How about "Gringo"? Does this only refer to Yanks or to any
>> light-skinned foreigner?
>
> Yes. There's some variance in local usage(*)/degree of pejorativeness,
> but it generally scans as "extra-continental(**) foreigners in general,
> especially those from the US." cf "Moslem" or "Turk" for anyone of
> Middle Eastern derivation, and "Hindu" for anyone from the Indian
> subcontinent.
I was going to chime in with the "Green Grows" US Army marching
song, only it seems I'm wrong:
http://www.linguistlist.org/~ask-ling/archive-1997.5/msg00317.html
> (*) Cuba is an intriguing case, as "gringo" is often used to refer
> specifically to Canadians.
Makes sense actually.
> (**) Mexico aside, but then, NAFTA aside, most Mexicans don't consider
> themselves North American.
But, um, it's a continent.
That's a little disturbing.
JH
Steve Taylor
> I was in Japan a couple of years ago talking to some engineers, and
> the topic of "disgusting foods" came up. (I don't like sashimi, which
> started the topic.) One of the engineers who had lived in the U.S. as
> well turned to the others and told them, in the same tone of voice
> that an American would use to say someone else ate bugs, "Over there,
> they eat peanut butter, and jam, on bread." The others looked horrified
> and said, "Eeewwww." So to some people, peanut butter is pretty darn
> horrifying.
No! Peanut butter is fine. Peanut butter and jam is a horrifying
*combination* to non-Americans. Very definitely including me. Icky.
To a much lesser extent, I find the way you use pumpkin as a sweet food
(in pumpkin pie) rather than a savoury food (roast pumpkin alongside
roast potatoes) pretty disturbing. I can eat it, but it feels wrong.
> Karen Williams
Steve