Just out of curiousity (#1?)

[Anthony Nance]

Short version:
Pop on over to
scifilists.sffjazz.com/lists_books_rank1.html

Check out the top 20, and let me know which ones
you have *not* read. I'll keep track and report
back at some point.

For me, I have not read the PKD[1], the Gibson,
the Niven[2] or the Simmons[also 2].

Explanation/Long Version is below in case you're
interested.

Thanks,
Tony

Long version:
I've sort of had a long interest here in the books
most of us have read - kind of a common conversation
base for the group. Of course, for any given title
there seem to be a few of us that haven't read it,
so I'm not sure what that common base really is.

So I'm curious to see how many we've all read
(if any), how many almost all of us have read, etc.
Maybe we'll find out what some of the rasfw
"Lingua Franca" is comprised of.

Note:
There are actually many lists at this site, and
the link above is specifically Science Fiction
(by whatever criteria they've used). If things
work out, I may do this with a few of the other
lists, or go farther down this list (21-40), etc.

[1] I've seen Blade Runner, though.
[2] I have both of these, but they seems to be
(permanently?) stuck in the TBR pile.

[Peter Trei]

I've read all the first 20. I have to get down to 27 (Ender's Shadow) for
my first miss, and 45 (Red Mars) for the second.

pt

[James Nicoll]

In article <oo6cpi$f8s$1...@dont-email.me>,

Anthony Nance <na...@math.ohio-state.edu> wrote:
>Short version:
>Pop on over to
>scifilists.sffjazz.com/lists_books_rank1.html
>
>Check out the top 20, and let me know which ones
>you have *not* read. I'll keep track and report
>back at some point.
>
>For me, I have not read the PKD[1], the Gibson,
>the Niven[2] or the Simmons[also 2].
>
>Explanation/Long Version is below in case you're
>interested.
>

I wonder if the people who so closely monitor the gender balance
in my lists will be commenting on how there are, what, eight? books
by women in the top 100.
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My Livejournal at http://www.livejournal.com/users/james_nicoll
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

[Anthony Nance]

Peter Trei <pete...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wednesday, August 30, 2017 at 9:02:53 AM UTC-4, Anthony Nance wrote:
>> Short version:
>> Pop on over to
>> scifilists.sffjazz.com/lists_books_rank1.html
>>
>> Check out the top 20, and let me know which ones
>> you have *not* read. I'll keep track and report
>> back at some point.
>>
>> For me, I have not read the PKD[1], the Gibson,
>> the Niven[2] or the Simmons[also 2].
>>
>> Explanation/Long Version is below in case you're
>> interested.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Tony
>>

>> Long version: <snipped>

>>
>
> I've read all the first 20. I have to get down to 27 (Ender's Shadow) for
> my first miss, and 45 (Red Mars) for the second.
>
> pt

Yeah, I was surprised I'd missed 4, but this is one of those
times I am reminded of my non-standard (relative to rasfw)
intro to speculative fiction.

Tony

[Anthony Nance]

James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
> In article <oo6cpi$f8s$1...@dont-email.me>,
> Anthony Nance <na...@math.ohio-state.edu> wrote:
>>Short version:
>>Pop on over to
>>scifilists.sffjazz.com/lists_books_rank1.html
>>
>>Check out the top 20, and let me know which ones
>>you have *not* read. I'll keep track and report
>>back at some point.
>>
>>For me, I have not read the PKD[1], the Gibson,
>>the Niven[2] or the Simmons[also 2].
>>
>>Explanation/Long Version is below in case you're
>>interested.
>>
>
> I wonder if the people who so closely monitor the gender balance
> in my lists will be commenting on how there are, what, eight? books
> by women in the top 100.

<shrug> I guess we'll see. I'm seeing 9, by the way, but I only
checked once.

Except for possibly the 20 you mention elsewhere, I'm assuming
you've read the first eleventy zillion on their lists, so if
you run across others, let me know (if you want to).

Tony

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <oo6cpi$f8s$1...@dont-email.me>,
Anthony Nance <na...@math.ohio-state.edu> wrote:

>Short version:
>Pop on over to
>scifilists.sffjazz.com/lists_books_rank1.html
>
>Check out the top 20, and let me know which ones
>you have *not* read. I'll keep track and report
>back at some point.
>
>For me, I have not read the PKD[1], the Gibson,
>the Niven[2] or the Simmons[also 2].

[schnipp]

My first reaction was "Hey, I've read most of these." A closer
look at the list revealed a lot more that I hadn't. Those seem
to fall into two categories: (a) I read reviews or mentions of
them on USENET and decided I didn't want to read them, and/or (b)
they were published after about 2005 when I no longer had
book-buying money except for the occasional one I really really
wanted.


Neuromancer
Slaughterhouse Five
Ender's Shadow
Solaris
Cat's Cradle
Ubik
Battlefield Earth
The Reality Disfunction
The Diamond Age
A Scanner Darkly
The Handmaid's Tale
Use of Weapons
Old Man's War
Eon
Sphere
Revelation Space
Player of Games
The Fifth Head of Cerberus
Ilium
The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch
Altered Carbon
The Chrysalids
The Hunger Games
Way Station
Roadside Picnic
The Cyberiad
Anathem
VALIS
Xenocide
The Postman
Pandora's Star


--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com

[Anthony Nance]

Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
> In article <oo6cpi$f8s$1...@dont-email.me>,
> Anthony Nance <na...@math.ohio-state.edu> wrote:
>>Short version:
>>Pop on over to
>>scifilists.sffjazz.com/lists_books_rank1.html
>>
>>Check out the top 20, and let me know which ones
>>you have *not* read. I'll keep track and report
>>back at some point.
>>
>>For me, I have not read the PKD[1], the Gibson,
>>the Niven[2] or the Simmons[also 2].
>
> [schnipp]
>
> My first reaction was "Hey, I've read most of these." A closer
> look at the list revealed a lot more that I hadn't. Those seem
> to fall into two categories: (a) I read reviews or mentions of
> them on USENET and decided I didn't want to read them, and/or (b)
> they were published after about 2005 when I no longer had
> book-buying money except for the occasional one I really really
> wanted.
>

> <snip Dorothy's misses in the top 100>
>

Your point (a) plays a big part in my own holes.

If we end up going farther down the list, I'll include
what you added beyond #20.

And, of course, I now see I have a typo in the subject line.
I'd guess 99% of my typos here come from typing a complete
thought[1], then changing the phrasing without fixing all
the ripple effects.

Tony
[1] The original subject was "Just curious".

[-dsr-]

On 2017-08-30, Anthony Nance <na...@math.ohio-state.edu> wrote:
> Short version:
> Pop on over to
> scifilists.sffjazz.com/lists_books_rank1.html
>
> Check out the top 20, and let me know which ones
> you have *not* read. I'll keep track and report
> back at some point.
>
> For me, I have not read the PKD[1], the Gibson,
> the Niven[2] or the Simmons[also 2].

I've read all of the top 20.

Of the top 100, I have not read 8. I had heard of them
all, had opportunities to read them, and decided not to do so.

-dsr-

[D B Davis]

Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:

> In article <oo6cpi$f8s$1...@dont-email.me>,
> Anthony Nance <na...@math.ohio-state.edu> wrote:
>>Short version:
>>Pop on over to
>>scifilists.sffjazz.com/lists_books_rank1.html
>>
>>Check out the top 20, and let me know which ones
>>you have *not* read. I'll keep track and report
>>back at some point.
>>
>>For me, I have not read the PKD[1], the Gibson,
>>the Niven[2] or the Simmons[also 2].
>
> [schnipp]
>
> My first reaction was "Hey, I've read most of these." A closer
> look at the list revealed a lot more that I hadn't. Those seem
> to fall into two categories: (a) I read reviews or mentions of
> them on USENET and decided I didn't want to read them, and/or (b)
> they were published after about 2005 when I no longer had
> book-buying money except for the occasional one I really really
> wanted.
>
>

<snip>

Of the top twenty, these stories remain unread by me:

Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy
Hyperion
Childhood's End

Of the next twenty, these stories are unread:

The Left Hand of Darkness
Snow Crash
The Mote in God's Eye
Ender's Shadow
Speaker for the Dead
Jurassic Park
The Stars My Destination
Gateway
Solaris
Lord of Light
20,000 Leagues Under the Sea
The Andromeda Strain
Contact

Those stories will probably remain unread given their absence from my SF
to-be-read list. That, coupled with my intention to actually read all of
the stories currently on my list /before/ any additional stories are
acquired by me.

The number of people in rasw who don't read PKD is interesting. Yet PKD
stories prove irresistible to both Hollywood and me. De gustibus non est
disputandum, as you say.

Thank you,

--
Don

[Default User]

For me, the first 25 only produced the PKD (9) and Stephenson (25) as misses. After that it gets much worse, overall less than 60%. Of those, I've considered Way Station a few times but never went for it. I'm also not near as big of a fan of Heinlein juvies as many of you.

Full list of not-read (formatting is rough as I copied from a spreadsheet):

9 Philip K Dick Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?
25 Neal Stephenson Snow Crash
27 Orson Scott Card Ender's Shadow [S1]
28 Orson Scott Card Speaker for the Dead [S2]
31 Philip K Dick The Man in the High Castle
34 Stanislaw Lem Solaris
35 Roger Zelazny Lord of Light
38 Kurt Vonnegut Cat's Cradle
39 Philip K Dick Ubik
40 Carl Sagan Contact
41 Madeleine L'Engle A Wrinkle In Time
42 John Wyndham The Day of the Triffids
46 Anthony Burgess A Clockwork Orange
49 Ursula K Le Guin The Dispossessed
50 Isaac Asimov The End of Eternity
53 L Ron Hubbard Battlefield Earth
60 Margaret Atwood The Handmaid's Tale
62 Iain M Banks Use of Weapons [S3]
63 John Scalzi Old Man's War [S1]
64 Greg Bear Eon [S1]
65 Arthur C Clarke The City and the Stars
66 Michael Crichton Sphere
69 Robert A Heinlein The Door Into Summer
73 Connie Willis Doomsday Book
74 Cormac McCarthy The Road
75 Robert A Heinlein Citizen of the Galaxy
77 Gene Wolfe The Fifth Head of Cerberus
78 Dan Simmons Ilium
80 Richard Morgan Altered Carbon [S1]
82 John Wyndham The Chrysalids
83 Suzanne Collins The Hunger Games
85 Robert A Heinlein Have Space-Suit - Will Travel
86 Clifford Simak Way Station
87 Arkady & Boris Strugatsky Roadside Picnic
88 Ursula K Le Guin The Lathe of Heaven
90 John Brunner Stand on Zanzibar
91 Stanislaw Lem [C] The Cyberiad
92 Neal Stephenson Anathem
94 Julian May The Many-Colored Land [S1]
95 Clifford Simak [C] City
96 Philip K Dick VALIS
97 Orson Scott Card Xenocide [S3]
98 David Brin The Postman
100 Peter F Hamilton Pandora's Star [S1]

[Robert Carnegie]

I have not read:
Ender's Game
Fahrenheit 451
Do Androids Dream...
Starship Troopers
Hyperion
Childhood's End

I don't remember if I've read:
Neuromancer
Ringworld
In each case, I've read one or more others in the series.

[David Johnston]

I have started Hyperion but concluded I was not interested in continuing. I have not read Neuromancer and do not feel inclined to remedy that oversight.

[Default User]

On Wednesday, August 30, 2017 at 10:32:54 AM UTC-5, D B Davis wrote:

> The number of people in rasw who don't read PKD is interesting. Yet PKD
> stories prove irresistible to both Hollywood and me. De gustibus non est
> disputandum, as you say.

In my case, I've read a fair amount of his short fiction (which in fact is what most of the Hollywood productions source) but not so much the novels that appear on the list.


Brian

[Robert Woodward]

In article <oo6cpi$f8s$1...@dont-email.me>,

na...@math.ohio-state.edu (Anthony Nance) wrote:

> Short version:
> Pop on over to
> scifilists.sffjazz.com/lists_books_rank1.html
>
> Check out the top 20, and let me know which ones
> you have *not* read. I'll keep track and report
> back at some point.

I have read 12 of the top 20 and 35 of the remaining 80 - have not read
Bradbury, any Gibson, any Simmons, any Crichton, 1 Heinlein and 1 Clarke
in the list. Also have read only 1 Dick and 1 Vonnegut in the list.

--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.
ã-----------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward robe...@drizzle.com

[David Johnston]

Hollywood substantially rewrites most of the Dick they adapt, and there are reasons for that and for why the most faithful adaptions are not the successful ones.

[10313...@compuserve.com]

On Wednesday, August 30, 2017 at 9:02:53 AM UTC-4, Anthony Nance wrote:

> Short version:
> Pop on over to
> scifilists.sffjazz.com/lists_books_rank1.html
>
> Check out the top 20, and let me know which ones
> you have *not* read. I'll keep track and report
> back at some point.

I'm not a very frequent poster here, but for the record, the only one in the top 20 I have not read is the Simmons. I notice that _Hyperion_ is a $1.99 teaser for the Kindle, but the 4-book set is $27...

JimboCat
--
Likes and dislikes are among my favorites.

[James Nicoll]

In article <oo6hij$t7s$1...@dont-email.me>,

Well, I've not read Solaris....

[Jaimie Vandenbergh]

On Wed, 30 Aug 2017 12:58:26 -0000 (UTC), na...@math.ohio-state.edu
(Anthony Nance) wrote:

>Check out the top 20, and let me know which ones
>you have *not* read. I'll keep track and report
>back at some point.

I've only missed the Heinlein, Moon is a Harsh Mistress. Which I should
rectify.

Cheers - Jaimie
--
"Jesus died for our sins. Let us not cheapen his
sacrifice by failing to commit any of them."

[Harold Hill]

On Wednesday, August 30, 2017 at 9:02:53 AM UTC-4, Anthony Nance wrote:

> Short version:
> Pop on over to
> scifilists.sffjazz.com/lists_books_rank1.html
>
> Check out the top 20, and let me know which ones
> you have *not* read. I'll keep track and report
> back at some point.

29, Jurassic Park, is the first one that I have not read.

32 titles in the whole list that I haven't read.

--
-Harold Hill

[Peter Trei]

On Wednesday, August 30, 2017 at 10:12:22 AM UTC-4, James Nicoll wrote:
> In article <oo6cpi$f8s$1...@dont-email.me>,
> Anthony Nance <na...@math.ohio-state.edu> wrote:
> >Short version:
> >Pop on over to
> >scifilists.sffjazz.com/lists_books_rank1.html
> >
> >Check out the top 20, and let me know which ones
> >you have *not* read. I'll keep track and report
> >back at some point.
> >
> >For me, I have not read the PKD[1], the Gibson,
> >the Niven[2] or the Simmons[also 2].
> >
> >Explanation/Long Version is below in case you're
> >interested.
> >
>
> I wonder if the people who so closely monitor the gender balance
> in my lists will be commenting on how there are, what, eight? books
> by women in the top 100.

The list is based on a poll where people can pick 10 favorites from a fixed
list; the 'top' books are just a reordering of that list. It would be
more interesting to check how many of the enumerated candidates are by women,
(I haven't checked) and whether they place higher or lower than
statistically expected.

pt

[D B Davis]

Good point. The PKD novels that received a Hollywood treatment are:

_The Man in the High Castle_
_Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?_
_A Scanner Darkly_
_Radio Free Albemuth_

_The Man_ is the only movie not seen by me thus far. Because Bezos
business fails me.

Thank you,

--
Don

[Jaimie Vandenbergh]

On Wed, 30 Aug 2017 09:54:57 -0700 (PDT), 10313...@compuserve.com
wrote:

>On Wednesday, August 30, 2017 at 9:02:53 AM UTC-4, Anthony Nance wrote:
>> Short version:
>> Pop on over to
>> scifilists.sffjazz.com/lists_books_rank1.html
>>
>> Check out the top 20, and let me know which ones
>> you have *not* read. I'll keep track and report
>> back at some point.
>
>I'm not a very frequent poster here, but for the record, the only one in the top 20 I have not read is the Simmons. I notice that _Hyperion_ is a $1.99 teaser for the Kindle, but the 4-book set is $27...

You probably only want the two Hyperion books, the Endymion sequals
aren't very good or interesting and retroactively ruin some of the fun
of the first two.

Cheers - Jaimie
--
...most SF writers are small blokes; they spent a lot of time grubbing
around on the floor for old SF mags, not stretching up to the top shelf
for pornography... As an aside, Douglas Adams is quite tall.
- Terry Pratchett

[Chris Buckley]

I did a very rough check earlier on it. About 1/6 of the candidate list
are by women, so the poll takers are winnowing down the women.

I was impressed by the quality of the candidate list - it was very
nice in its own right. It was quite good in its representation of
women authors as well,IMO. I have a bookcase (part virtual now) of my
top favorites (a bit under 300 titles. about 1/3 by women) of science
fiction and fantasy, and the only women science fiction authors in it
that were not in the candidate list were Friedman, Wells, and a couple
of other personal favorites that I wouldn't expect to be on the list
(Lynn, Piserchia, Friedberg).

Chris

[Chris Buckley]

On 2017-08-30, Peter Trei <pete...@gmail.com> wrote:

I haven't read _Jurassic Park_, _Contact_, _Sphere_, _The Road_,
_The Hunger Games_, and _Pandora's Star_. I'm not sure about _VALIS_;
I gave up on Dick about then and I may have read it in the library. I
don't have any particular desire to read any of those; am I missing anything?

Chris

[Titus G]

On 31/08/17 00:58, Anthony Nance wrote:
> Short version:
> Pop on over to
> scifilists.sffjazz.com/lists_books_rank1.html
>
> Check out the top 20, and let me know which ones
> you have *not* read. I'll keep track and report
> back at some point.

All except Hyperion, a copy of which I have but have not read having
been discouraged here despite rating "The Terror" as a brilliant read.

[Titus G]

On 31/08/17 03:28, D B Davis wrote:

<snip>

> Of the next twenty, these stories are unread:

> The Mote in God's Eye

One of my all-time favourites.

> The Stars My Destination

Another of my all-time favourites.

snip

> The number of people in rasw who don't read PKD is interesting. Yet PKD
> stories prove irresistible to both Hollywood and me. De gustibus non est
> disputandum, as you say.

They were all enjoyed by me many years ago. Recently, I reread Flow My
Tears....etc and thoroughly enjoyed it. I plan to reread more. (But
probably not the ones that Hollywood have already provided the imagery for.)

[David Johnston]

If you do the poll you can nominate a book so I nominated Postmarked the Stars because I was distressed by their lack of Norton.

[Titus G]

On 31/08/17 08:54, Chris Buckley wrote:
snip

> I haven't read .................................... _The Road_,
> ..........., and ................. I

> don't have any particular desire to read any of those; am I missing anything?

I am a fan of Cormac McCarthy and do not rank The Road as highly as most
of his others. More importantly, it may be SF but is definitely not Sci-Fi.

[Chris Buckley]

_Hyperion_ is in my bookcase of favorites, but it's one of those books
with extraordinary pieces, but the whole is somehow less than the sum
of the pieces. The framework tying everything together is weaker than
I think it should be; if that bothers you, then I wouldn't recommend
it for you. From my general impression of what you like, I don't
think you'd find it a waste of time to read it, and parts of it I'm
sure you would appreciate. (I would certainly recommend _Hyperion_ to
you more than I would either of the Hamilton books, for instance.)

Chris

[James Nicoll]

In article <5cea873c-d65e-4380...@googlegroups.com>,

I'd go for either Galactic Derelict or Night of Masks...

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

In article <oo7bcr$398$1...@reader2.panix.com>,

_The Zero Stone_ no question..
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

[Chris Buckley]

I might choose _Moon of Three Rings_. And there are other books like
_Witch World_ where the line between fantasy and science fiction is unclear.

That's the problem with Norton. She has a large number of good books,
but she doesn't have a great book. I have no problem ranking her in
the top 50 science fiction authors, and as a grandmaster, but there's
not a book that I would consider in the top 100 science fiction books.

Chris

[David Johnston]

If the Heritage of Hastur and Battlefield Earth are in there I think Andre Norton deserves representation.

[Magewolf]

On 8/30/2017 8:58 AM, Anthony Nance wrote:
> Short version:
> Pop on over to
> scifilists.sffjazz.com/lists_books_rank1.html
>
> Check out the top 20, and let me know which ones
> you have *not* read. I'll keep track and report
> back at some point.
>
> For me, I have not read the PKD[1], the Gibson,
> the Niven[2] or the Simmons[also 2].
>
> Explanation/Long Version is below in case you're
> interested.
>

> Thanks,
> Tony
>
> Long version:
> I've sort of had a long interest here in the books
> most of us have read - kind of a common conversation
> base for the group. Of course, for any given title
> there seem to be a few of us that haven't read it,
> so I'm not sure what that common base really is.
>
> So I'm curious to see how many we've all read
> (if any), how many almost all of us have read, etc.
> Maybe we'll find out what some of the rasfw
> "Lingua Franca" is comprised of.
>
> Note:
> There are actually many lists at this site, and
> the link above is specifically Science Fiction
> (by whatever criteria they've used). If things
> work out, I may do this with a few of the other
> lists, or go farther down this list (21-40), etc.
>
> [1] I've seen Blade Runner, though.
> [2] I have both of these, but they seems to be
> (permanently?) stuck in the TBR pile.
>

I have not read 30 of these, Brave New World being the only one I missed
out of the first 20. I started Brave New World in my teenage years but
gave up after only a few pages and I have never felt the urge to give it
another try.

[Magewolf]

Hyperion is the only one worth reading anyway.

[Magewolf]

On 8/30/2017 10:12 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
> In article <oo6cpi$f8s$1...@dont-email.me>,

> Anthony Nance <na...@math.ohio-state.edu> wrote:
>> Short version:
>> Pop on over to
>> scifilists.sffjazz.com/lists_books_rank1.html
>>
>> Check out the top 20, and let me know which ones
>> you have *not* read. I'll keep track and report
>> back at some point.
>>

>> For me, I have not read the PKD[1], the Gibson,
>> the Niven[2] or the Simmons[also 2].
>>
>> Explanation/Long Version is below in case you're
>> interested.
>>
>

> I wonder if the people who so closely monitor the gender balance
> in my lists will be commenting on how there are, what, eight? books
> by women in the top 100.
>

I will say that some 33 of the books on the list would not even go on my
good SF list not to mention my top 100.

[Moriarty]

On Wednesday, August 30, 2017 at 11:02:53 PM UTC+10, Anthony Nance wrote:
> Short version:
> Pop on over to
> scifilists.sffjazz.com/lists_books_rank1.html
>
> Check out the top 20, and let me know which ones
> you have *not* read. I'll keep track and report
> back at some point.

I read far more fantasy than science fiction. So of the top 20 I have not read:

Heinlein x3
Clarke x3 (seen the 2001 movie)
The PKD (seen the movie)
Neuromancer
Ringworld
The Forever War

I suspect I'm a statistical outlier in this group.

-Moriarty

[Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)]

On 8/30/17 8:58 AM, Anthony Nance wrote:
> Short version:
> Pop on over to
> scifilists.sffjazz.com/lists_books_rank1.html
>
> Check out the top 20, and let me know which ones
> you have *not* read. I'll keep track and report
> back at some point.

I have not read Fahrenheit 451, The Forever War, and Do Androids Dream
of Electric Sheep. (I've read other works by those authors, though)



--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Website: http://www.grandcentralarena.com Blog:
http://seawasp.dreamwidth.org

[Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)]

Overall, I don't like the list in its long form. There are WAY too many
repeated authors (OSC gets multiple entries just from the Ender series)
and thus way too many non-represented authors who should be on any such
list.

[Chris Buckley]

What's your definition of "good" then? There are definitely books on
the list that I dislike, sometimes strongly, and will never re-read
again (e.g., the Vonnegut novels, _Solaris_, _Ilium_), but I wouldn't claim
they are not "good". I can understand why they appeal to other people
who use different criteria than me.

Even books like _Battlefield: Earth_, which I consider pretty
worthless by most of my important criteria, is still a "good" example
of the type of book it is. I can see how people driven by complex
plot really like it; it moved along well and remained true to itself.
(Hubbard's dekology, on the other hand, I consider as an example of a
"not good" series. It was not self-consistent; lots of random events
and people doing things that there was no reason for them to do.)

I was impressed by the list. It's not the list that I would make, but
I would hesitate to call any of the books not good. For any book on
the list, I can think of people who I think would call it excellent.

Chris

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

In article <oo7hgl$dkm$1...@dont-email.me>,

Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>On 8/30/17 8:58 AM, Anthony Nance wrote:
>> Short version:
>> Pop on over to
>> scifilists.sffjazz.com/lists_books_rank1.html
>>
>> Check out the top 20, and let me know which ones
>> you have *not* read. I'll keep track and report
>> back at some point.
>
>
> I have not read Fahrenheit 451, The Forever War, and Do Androids Dream
>of Electric Sheep. (I've read other works by those authors, though)
>

O the embarassment

[Chris Buckley]

On 2017-08-30, Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>
> Overall, I don't like the list in its long form. There are WAY too many
> repeated authors (OSC gets multiple entries just from the Ender series)
> and thus way too many non-represented authors who should be on any such
> list.

What would be your suggestion?

I personally would put both _Ender's Game_ and _Speaker for the Dead_ on
my list of top 100 books. I don't care about the rest of OSC (well, perhaps
the collection), but who decides?

I absolutely would want both _A Fire upon the Deep_ and _A Deepness in the Sky_
listed; both might make my list of top 10 books.

There are way too many Dick's on both the candidate list and top 100
list for my tastes, but who decides? The voters picked 6 Dick books
to be in the top 100. If whatever suggestion you have for the
candidate list doesn't allow that, then you will be artificially
changing what the final top 100 list looks like.

Chris

[Robert Bannister]

On 30/8/17 11:50 pm, David Johnston wrote:

> I have started Hyperion but concluded I was not interested in continuing. I have not read Neuromancer and do not feel inclined to remedy that oversight.
>

I made the mistake of not only struggling through Hyperion, but by
reading the sequel. Hard going.

--
Robert B. born England a long time ago;
Western Australia since 1972

[Chris Buckley]

On 2017-08-30, James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
> In article <oo6cpi$f8s$1...@dont-email.me>,

> Anthony Nance <na...@math.ohio-state.edu> wrote:
>>Short version:
>>Pop on over to
>>scifilists.sffjazz.com/lists_books_rank1.html
>>
>>Check out the top 20, and let me know which ones
>>you have *not* read. I'll keep track and report
>>back at some point.
>>

>>For me, I have not read the PKD[1], the Gibson,
>>the Niven[2] or the Simmons[also 2].
>>
>>Explanation/Long Version is below in case you're
>>interested.
>>
>
> I wonder if the people who so closely monitor the gender balance
> in my lists will be commenting on how there are, what, eight? books
> by women in the top 100.

Why? I'm not claiming that it's biased. Are you claiming that it's
biased?

If so, what do you consider is biased?
The provider of the list?
The methodology?
The voters?
The process of selecting candidates?


And what are your comments on, say, the top 100 fantasy series list, by
the same provider with the same methodology? (46 have women authors by
my count, which includes some guesses as I don't know all the names.)

I know of nobody who claims that science fiction was not a male dominated
field for many years. Why should that enter into the discussion now?

Chris

[Gary R. Schmidt]

On 30/08/2017 22:58, Anthony Nance wrote:
> Short version:
> Pop on over to
> scifilists.sffjazz.com/lists_books_rank1.html
>
> Check out the top 20, and let me know which ones
> you have *not* read. I'll keep track and report
> back at some point.
>
> For me, I have not read the PKD[1], the Gibson,
> the Niven[2] or the Simmons[also 2].
>
> Explanation/Long Version is below in case you're
> interested.
>

> Thanks,
> Tony
>
> Long version:
> I've sort of had a long interest here in the books
> most of us have read - kind of a common conversation
> base for the group. Of course, for any given title
> there seem to be a few of us that haven't read it,
> so I'm not sure what that common base really is.
>
> So I'm curious to see how many we've all read
> (if any), how many almost all of us have read, etc.
> Maybe we'll find out what some of the rasfw
> "Lingua Franca" is comprised of.
>
> Note:
> There are actually many lists at this site, and
> the link above is specifically Science Fiction
> (by whatever criteria they've used). If things
> work out, I may do this with a few of the other
> lists, or go farther down this list (21-40), etc.
>
> [1] I've seen Blade Runner, though.
> [2] I have both of these, but they seems to be
> (permanently?) stuck in the TBR pile.
>

First miss is at 15 - Hyperion, which is one of those books I see every
now and then and decide not to read, not sure why.

Then it's all fine until 29, Jurassic Park (I've not seen the movie,
either).

Cheers.
Gary B-)

--
When men talk to their friends, they insult each other.
They don't really mean it.
When women talk to their friends, they compliment each other.
They don't mean it either.

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

In article <tnfk7e-...@paranoia.mcleod-schmidt.id.au>,

Interesting that they have the [A] tag for multi-author anthology, but
no entries. At one time you would have exected _Adventures In Time & Space_
to be in there for sure.

[hamis...@gmail.com]

On Wednesday, August 30, 2017 at 11:02:53 PM UTC+10, Anthony Nance wrote:
> Short version:
> Pop on over to
> scifilists.sffjazz.com/lists_books_rank1.html
>
> Check out the top 20, and let me know which ones
> you have *not* read. I'll keep track and report
> back at some point.

Haven't read
3) The Foundation Trilogy (I think I've read the first book)
7) Farenheit 451 (have it sitting somewhere)
8) 2001: A Space Odyssey (I don't think, although I might have read it 30 odd years back, have seen the movie but it took a few tries before I stayed awake through it)
10) Neuromancer
14) Rendezvous With Rama
17) Brave New World (have it sitting somewhere)
19) Childhood's End

[Greg Goss]

Chris Buckley <al...@sabir.com> wrote:

>scifilists.sffjazz.com/lists_books_rank1.html

Misses:

Dan Simmons Hyperion [S1] 1989
Kurt Vonnegut Slaughterhouse Five 1969
(All the Vonneguts blur together. I might have read 'em all, I might
not have)

Neal Stephenson Snow Crash 1992

Stanislaw Lem Solaris 1961
(I've tried to read it a few times. I may well have finished it one
of those times. If so, it didn't stick.)

Roger Zelazny Lord of Light 1967
(Could never get into Zelazny. Except "Doorways" which my mental
database insists is a Tak Hallus (Robinette).)

Anthony Burgess A Clockwork Orange 1962

Mary Shelley Frankenstein 1818
Peter F Hamilton The Reality Dysfunction [S1] 1996
Neal Stephenson The Diamond Age 1995
Iain M Banks Use of Weapons [S3] 1990
John Scalzi Old Man's War [S1] 2005
Alastair Reynolds Revelation Space [S1] 2000
Iain M Banks Player of Games [S2] 1988
Edgar Rice Burroughs A Princess of Mars [S1] 1912
Connie Willis Doomsday Book 1992
Cormac McCarthy The Road 2006
C S Lewis Out of the Silent Planet [S1] 1938
Gene Wolfe The Fifth Head of Cerberus 1972
Dan Simmons Ilium 2003
Richard Morgan Altered Carbon [S1] 2002
Suzanne Collins The Hunger Games 2008
Edwin A Abbott Flatland 1884
Arkady & Boris Strugatsky Roadside Picnic 1972
Richard Matheson I Am Legend 1954
Stanislaw Lem [C] The Cyberiad 1974
Neal Stephenson Anathem 2008
Julian May The Many-Colored Land [S1] 1981
Philip K Dick VALIS 1981
Peter F Hamilton Pandora's Star [S1] 2004

I pretty much stopped reading novels when I got involved in BBSs and
then Usenet from mid-eighties until about 2003. The gradual collapse
of Usenet got me back into reading, but not really as a completist
anymore. I re-read three megaseries several times, and don't explore
much. The one Banks I tried didn't really work for me. The one
Liaden I tried was way too late in the series and everyone knew too
much that I didn't. I get Reynolds confused with a writer from the
sixties that I didn't like much.
--
We are geeks. Resistance is voltage over current.

[Greg Goss]

David Johnston <davidjohnst...@gmail.com> wrote:

>> That's the problem with Norton. She has a large number of good books,
>> but she doesn't have a great book. I have no problem ranking her in
>> the top 50 science fiction authors, and as a grandmaster, but there's
>> not a book that I would consider in the top 100 science fiction books.
>
>If the Heritage of Hastur and Battlefield Earth are in there I think Andre Norton deserves representation.

That's a problem with discussing a dynamic list. Hastur is no longer
in there when I looked at the list.

[Jack Bohn]

Of the top 20, I've not read Ender's Game (I've read the shorter story, and not felt the need for more of it), 1984, Fahrenheit 451, and Hyperion. A quick glance at the bottom of the second hundred has me stunned at the low position of the Cordwainer Smith collection.

--
-Jack

[Titus G]

On 31/08/17 17:18, Greg Goss wrote:
snip

> The one Banks I tried didn't really work for me.

Bursts into tears.
Please, please, please try another.

[David Goldfarb]

In article <b4277fe9-c5ad-47af...@googlegroups.com>,
Peter Trei <pete...@gmail.com> wrote:
>I've read all the first 20. I have to get down to 27 (Ender's Shadow) for
>my first miss, and 45 (Red Mars) for the second.

So have I, and in fact my first miss is the same as yours. My second
miss is higher up, though, 34 Solaris. I *have* read _Red Mars_.

--
David Goldfarb |"Ah, the stench of evil is about this place!"
goldf...@gmail.com | "Actually, I think that's air-freshener."
gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu | --_Zot!_ #4

[Juho Julkunen]

In article <oo6cpi$f8s$1...@dont-email.me>, na...@math.ohio-state.edu
says...

>
> Short version:
> Pop on over to
> scifilists.sffjazz.com/lists_books_rank1.html
>
> Check out the top 20, and let me know which ones
> you have *not* read. I'll keep track and report
> back at some point.

Of the top twenty the only one I haven't read is _The Time Machine_.

--
Juho Julkunen

[Anthony Nance]

James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
> In article <oo6hij$t7s$1...@dont-email.me>,

> Anthony Nance <na...@math.ohio-state.edu> wrote:
>>James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
>>> In article <oo6cpi$f8s$1...@dont-email.me>,
>>> Anthony Nance <na...@math.ohio-state.edu> wrote:

>>>>Short version:
>>>>Pop on over to
>>>>scifilists.sffjazz.com/lists_books_rank1.html
>>>>
>>>>Check out the top 20, and let me know which ones
>>>>you have *not* read. I'll keep track and report
>>>>back at some point.
>>>>

>>>>For me, I have not read the PKD[1], the Gibson,
>>>>the Niven[2] or the Simmons[also 2].
>>>>
>>>>Explanation/Long Version is below in case you're
>>>>interested.
>>>>
>>>

>>> I wonder if the people who so closely monitor the gender balance
>>> in my lists will be commenting on how there are, what, eight? books
>>> by women in the top 100.
>>

>><shrug> I guess we'll see. I'm seeing 9, by the way, but I only
>>checked once.
>>
>>Except for possibly the 20 you mention elsewhere, I'm assuming
>>you've read the first eleventy zillion on their lists, so if
>>you run across others, let me know (if you want to).
>>
> Well, I've not read Solaris....

Great - thanks. Early on, that one is showing up with some frequency.
Not having read it myself (yet), I'd guess it's a really good story
that suffered from under-exposure and under-availability when people
here would have been most likely to read it.

Tony

[Anthony Nance]

I think a lot of what you just said applies to Poul Anderson as well.
- Tony

[Juho Julkunen]

In article <f0p480...@mid.individual.net>,
robertb...@iprimus.com.au says...

>
> On 30/8/17 11:50 pm, David Johnston wrote:
>
> > I have started Hyperion but concluded I was not interested in continuing. I have not read Neuromancer and do not feel inclined to remedy that oversight.
> >
>
> I made the mistake of not only struggling through Hyperion, but by
> reading the sequel. Hard going.

I did finish Hyperion, but it cured me of any desire to read the
sequels.

Neuromancer I would recommend.

--
Juho Julkunen

[Anthony Nance]

Possibly - so far, yes. On the other hand, I may do this with
the fantasy list in a few weeks or so.

Tony

[Juho Julkunen]

In article <oo6rir$7dc$1...@reader2.panix.com>, jdni...@panix.com says...
>
> In article <oo6hij$t7s$1...@dont-email.me>,

> Anthony Nance <na...@math.ohio-state.edu> wrote:

> >Except for possibly the 20 you mention elsewhere, I'm assuming
> >you've read the first eleventy zillion on their lists, so if
> >you run across others, let me know (if you want to).
> >
> Well, I've not read Solaris....

This is suprising to me.

--
Juho Julkunen

[Anthony Nance]

"Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>

> Overall, I don't like the list in its long form. There are WAY too many
> repeated authors (OSC gets multiple entries just from the Ender series)
> and thus way too many non-represented authors who should be on any such
> list.
>

Echoing what Chris said, I think you're describing a different list,
with a different goal - which is fine, of course - lots of ways to
rate, categorize, etc. The Top 100 folks seem to be aiming for the top,
regardless of who wrote them. I doubt anyone's top/favorite 100 books
would turn out to be written by 100 different authors.

Tony

[Anthony Nance]

Ted Nolan <tednolan> <t...@loft.tnolan.com> wrote:

When I first stumbled across this list a long long time ago,
there was an [A] in the top 200, but I can't remember which
one it was. I don't think it was the Healy & McComas, but
I can'tbe sure.

Tony

[Juho Julkunen]

In article <oo91ic$5hs$2...@dont-email.me>, na...@math.ohio-state.edu
says...

Exposure might be an issue in the English speaking world. I was lucky
in that there were very good Finnish translations of some of his works
around when I was growing up.

--
Juho Julkunen

[James Nicoll]

In article <MPG.341238843...@news.kolumbus.fi>,

There are tons of good books I've not read.
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My Livejournal at http://www.livejournal.com/users/james_nicoll
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

In article <oo91n6$5hs$3...@dont-email.me>,

I would easily put _Tau Zero_ there.

[David Johnston]

It's in the larger list. I was distressed that Andre Norton wasn't even an option.

[Chris Buckley]

Hmmm... "Really good story" is not something that I've seen anybody
associate with _Solaris_ (either book or movie (though I didn't see
the remake)). It's a depressing character and theme driven work,
without much focus on plot, and the goal is more to raise (important)
questions in readers's mind about themselves and communication with
others, rather than to resolve questions or present any possible
answer.

It's hard to say that it's been under-exposed even in the US, given
there's been two acclaimed movie versions of it (1972 and 2002) since
its US paperback publication in 1970. (There was also an earlier movie
that I know nothing about.) It's much more that it will appeal
strongly to a narrow segment of the possible audience.

Chris

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

In article <slrnoqgjm...@video.sabir.com>,

Plus it is (was) a major Operating System!

[William Hyde]

On Wednesday, August 30, 2017 at 4:56:24 PM UTC-4, Titus G wrote:

> On 31/08/17 00:58, Anthony Nance wrote:
> > Short version:
> > Pop on over to
> > scifilists.sffjazz.com/lists_books_rank1.html
> >
> > Check out the top 20, and let me know which ones
> > you have *not* read. I'll keep track and report
> > back at some point.
>

> All except Hyperion, a copy of which I have but have not read having
> been discouraged here despite rating "The Terror" as a brilliant read.

I would suggest giving Hyperion a try, provided you are able to accept that it has no ending. I found it a brisk read (I really cannot understand how anyone had to "slog" through it). Plus it is a set of tales, and if you don't like the first, you have a natural stopping point.

The sequels well ... I liked them more than most people but approach with caution, particularly the second Endymion book.

William Hyde

[Juho Julkunen]

In article <oo92sr$3n0$1...@reader2.panix.com>, jdni...@panix.com says...

>
> In article <MPG.341238843...@news.kolumbus.fi>,
> Juho Julkunen <giao...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >In article <oo6rir$7dc$1...@reader2.panix.com>, jdni...@panix.com says...
> >>
> >> In article <oo6hij$t7s$1...@dont-email.me>,
> >> Anthony Nance <na...@math.ohio-state.edu> wrote:
> >
> >> >Except for possibly the 20 you mention elsewhere, I'm assuming
> >> >you've read the first eleventy zillion on their lists, so if
> >> >you run across others, let me know (if you want to).
> >> >
> >> Well, I've not read Solaris....
> >
> >This is suprising to me.
>
> There are tons of good books I've not read.

I was going for a callback to a recent core list there. Never mind me.

--
Juho Julkunen

[Robert Carnegie]

On Wednesday, 30 August 2017 17:43:34 UTC+1, David Johnston wrote:
> On Wednesday, August 30, 2017 at 9:32:54 AM UTC-6, D B Davis wrote:
> > Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
> > > In article <oo6cpi$f8s$1...@dont-email.me>,

> > > Anthony Nance <na...@math.ohio-state.edu> wrote:
> > >>Short version:
> > >>Pop on over to
> > >>scifilists.sffjazz.com/lists_books_rank1.html
> > >>
> > >>Check out the top 20, and let me know which ones
> > >>you have *not* read. I'll keep track and report
> > >>back at some point.
> > >>

> > >>For me, I have not read the PKD[1], the Gibson,
> > >>the Niven[2] or the Simmons[also 2].
> > >

> > > [schnipp]
> > >
> > > My first reaction was "Hey, I've read most of these." A closer
> > > look at the list revealed a lot more that I hadn't. Those seem
> > > to fall into two categories: (a) I read reviews or mentions of
> > > them on USENET and decided I didn't want to read them, and/or (b)
> > > they were published after about 2005 when I no longer had
> > > book-buying money except for the occasional one I really really
> > > wanted.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> > Of the top twenty, these stories remain unread by me:
> >
> > Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy
> > Hyperion
> > Childhood's End
> >
> > Of the next twenty, these stories are unread:
> >
> > The Left Hand of Darkness
> > Snow Crash
> > The Mote in God's Eye
> > Ender's Shadow
> > Speaker for the Dead
> > Jurassic Park
> > The Stars My Destination
> > Gateway
> > Solaris
> > Lord of Light
> > 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea
> > The Andromeda Strain
> > Contact
> >
> > Those stories will probably remain unread given their absence from my SF
> > to-be-read list. That, coupled with my intention to actually read all of
> > the stories currently on my list /before/ any additional stories are
> > acquired by me.
> >
> > The number of people in rasw who don't read PKD is interesting. Yet PKD
> > stories prove irresistible to both Hollywood and me. De gustibus non est
> > disputandum, as you say.
>
> Hollywood substantially rewrites most of the Dick they adapt, and there are reasons for that and for why the most faithful adaptions are not the successful ones.

Logically an ideal PKD movie would have the film strip
partway through, leaving the characters in a state of
professional embarrassment. I think that happened a
time or two to Daffy Duck. Huh. Dick, Duck - family
under the feathers.

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

In article <cbce358f-f24d-40bb...@googlegroups.com>,

You're desthpicable!

[Default User]

On Thursday, August 31, 2017 at 3:51:53 PM UTC-5, Robert Carnegie wrote:

> Logically an ideal PKD movie would have the film strip
> partway through, leaving the characters in a state of
> professional embarrassment. I think that happened a
> time or two to Daffy Duck. Huh. Dick, Duck - family
> under the feathers.

There was a story, I can't recall the title (YASID op) where a guy is going through his day, and has strong deja vu feelings. Then things sort of freeze and and he's out in a theater with a large machine (size of a locomotive?) that's apparently a 3D projector. He attempts to make a break for it, but eventually they get the machine fixed and he's back in the story.


Brian

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

In article <42079b79-ee70-43cf...@googlegroups.com>,

Mouse: Hey, wait a minute, pal! What are you trying to do, eat me?

Cat: Duh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mouse: Well forget it, pal. I've seen this cartoon before; and
believe me, if you're smart, you won't eat me; 'cause
before this picture's over, I save your life.

Cat: Duh, yeah, b-but I'm hungry.

Mouse: All right then. In the next room, you'll find a great big
fat juicy canary. Eat him.

[Carl Fink]

I have not read:

Dan Simmons Hyperion [S1]
Orson Scott Card Ender's Shadow [S1]
Kim Stanley Robinson Red Mars [S1]

Peter F Hamilton The Reality Dysfunction [S1]

Neal Stephenson The Diamond Age

Margaret Atwood The Handmaid's Tale

Iain M Banks Use of Weapons [S3]

Michael Crichton Sphere

Alastair Reynolds Revelation Space [S1]

Cormac McCarthy The Road
Dan Simmons Ilium

Richard Morgan Altered Carbon [S1]

Neal Stephenson Anathem

Peter F Hamilton Pandora's Star [S1]

That is a very quirky list. Three Neal Stephenson books, three Michael
Crichton, but no Poul Anderson and only one Zelazny?
--
Carl Fink nitpi...@nitpicking.com

Read my blog at blog.nitpicking.com. Reviews! Observations!
Stupid mistakes you can correct!

[Kevrob]

On Thursday, August 31, 2017 at 4:51:53 PM UTC-4, Robert Carnegie wrote:

> Logically an ideal PKD movie would have the film strip
> partway through, leaving the characters in a state of
> professional embarrassment. I think that happened a
> time or two to Daffy Duck. Huh. Dick, Duck - family
> under the feathers.

That reminded me of something. After some head scratching and
googol-searching.....

http://www.bigblogcomics.com/2010/03/dick-duck-duck-dick-by-jim-engel.html

Jim Engel's "Dick Duck, Duck Dick!"

Kevin R

[Garrett Wollman]

Hmmm. Probably easier to name the ones I *have* read than the ones I
haven't.

1 Herbert, DUNE
3 Asimov, FOUNDATION trilogy
4 Adams, HHGG
6 Heinlein, STRANGER
11 Asimov, I, ROBOT
20 Heinlein, THE MOON IS A HARSH MISTRESS
32 Asimov, THE CAVES OF STEEL
41 L'Engle, A WRINKLE IN TIME
43 Asimov, THE GODS THEMSELVES (srsly?!)
48 Heinlein, TIME ENOUGH FOR LOVE (ew)
94 May, THE MANY-COLORED LAND

I own but haven't read maybe half a dozen others. But seriously,
THESE BOOKS? I don't think I'd put more than three of them in my top
100. (I know I have a lot more reading to do than I will ever
manage in my remaining life, but still....)

I did recognize nearly all of the authors, though.

-GAWollman

--
Garrett A. Wollman | "Act to avoid constraining the future; if you can,
wol...@bimajority.org| act to remove constraint from the future. This is
Opinions not shared by| a thing you can do, are able to do, to do together."
my employers. | - Graydon Saunders, _A Succession of Bad Days_ (2015)

[D B Davis]

The exact opposite is true in the "Dreams for Sale" episode of the first
revival of _The Twilight Zone_:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeJgK0PTGp4

A dreamer (Meg Foster) is jolted back into a dystopic reality when a
virtual reality machine breaks down in "Dreams." After she experiences
severe dystopic shock the dreamer desperately seeks to leave the real
world behind and return to virtual reality.

Meg Foster also stars in the _They Live_ movie. Although neither PKD nor
James Tiptree wrote the story (script) for the movie, it fits nicely
into the PKD/Tiptree paranoid vibe.

"A paranoid is someone who knows a little of what's going on."
- William S. Burroughs

_They Live_ (Lethem) is also the title of a "Deep Focus" essay on the
movie. It takes a long hard witty look at the myriad artistic details
present in the movie.

Thank you,

--
Don

[hamis...@gmail.com]

On Friday, September 1, 2017 at 12:51:45 PM UTC+10, D B Davis wrote:

> Meg Foster also stars in the _They Live_ movie. Although neither PKD nor
> James Tiptree wrote the story (script) for the movie, it fits nicely
> into the PKD/Tiptree paranoid vibe.

They live is based on a short story "Eight O'Clock in the Morning" by Ray Nelson and comic story "Nada" by Ray Nelson and Bill Wray (artist).
Carpenter bought the rights to both versions to make the movie.

[David DeLaney]

On 2017-08-30, Anthony Nance <na...@math.ohio-state.edu> wrote:
> Short version:
> Pop on over to
> scifilists.sffjazz.com/lists_books_rank1.html
>
> Check out the top 20, and let me know which ones
> you have *not* read. I'll keep track and report back at some point.
>
> For me, I have not read the PKD[1], the Gibson,
> the Niven[2] or the Simmons[also 2].

I ... have read neither the Orwell or the Huxley, as such. (I have knowledge
of various details and some of the plot, through osmosis effectively.)

The others, heck yes!

Dave, {/takei Oh my! }

ps: of 21-40, I haven't read Crichton, Dick, Verne, or Sagan, though the middle
two are on my theoretical TBR list
--
\/David DeLaney posting thru EarthLink - "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
my gatekeeper archives are no longer accessible :( / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

[Anthony Nance]

Yeah, that's my favorite of his too, and he also happens to be one
of my very favorite authors. However, I'm not sure Tau Zero would
make my top 100 - feels like it would be a near thing.

Years ago we had a "One Big Book" thread, and Poul Anderson
didn't seem to have one.

Tony

[D B Davis]

Great point! The Hollywood treatment of "Eight O'Clock" actually follows
the short fairly close. Here's a re-post of my review of the Nelson:

Nelson, Ray "Eight O'Clock in the Morning" New Worlds SF May 1966. Print. 20170125.

alien, hypnosis, reptile, subliminal

This is the story behind the movie _They Live_ (Carpenter). It
originally appears in the May 1966 edition of _New Worlds of SF_. It
also appears in _Science-Fiction Classics: The Stories that Morphed into
Movies_ (Ackerman).

It's a fast paced story that reaches the end at break neck speed. Yet
most of the plot points appear in the movie. For some reason, this seems
noteworthy. Perhaps it indicates too much bait-and-switch over the years
with other treatments.

George Nada suddenly awakes to an Earth peppered with fugly aliens who
use mass hypnosis to pass themselves off as human. They actually look
reptilian, of course....

Thank you,

--
Don

[James Nicoll]

In article <oobhji$rg5$1...@dont-email.me>,

Anthony Nance <na...@math.ohio-state.edu> wrote:
>
>Years ago we had a "One Big Book" thread, and Poul Anderson
>didn't seem to have one.
>

Wasn't that the thread after he died?

[Anthony Nance]

James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
> In article <oobhji$rg5$1...@dont-email.me>,
> Anthony Nance <na...@math.ohio-state.edu> wrote:
>>
>>Years ago we had a "One Big Book" thread, and Poul Anderson
>>didn't seem to have one.
>>
> Wasn't that the thread after he died?
>

After some investigating, it turns out the One Big Book thread
was mostly in August 2006, about 5 years after Poul passed away.

Tony

[James Nicoll]

In article <ooc5bq$soq$1...@dont-email.me>,

Anthony Nance <na...@math.ohio-state.edu> wrote:
>James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
>> In article <oobhji$rg5$1...@dont-email.me>,
>> Anthony Nance <na...@math.ohio-state.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>>Years ago we had a "One Big Book" thread, and Poul Anderson
>>>didn't seem to have one.
>>>
>> Wasn't that the thread after he died?
>>
>
>After some investigating, it turns out the One Big Book thread
>was mostly in August 2006, about 5 years after Poul passed away.
>
>Tony

Thank you.

[John Dallman]

In article <b4277fe9-c5ad-47af...@googlegroups.com>,
pete...@gmail.com (Peter Trei) wrote:

> I've read all the first 20. I have to get down to 27 (Ender's
> Shadow) for my first miss,

That's also my first miss. The next one is _Battlefield Earth_, currently
#53, then _A Princess of Mars_, _The Road_, _The Hunger Games_, _Anathem_
- the first one I have not read and actually want to - and a few more
near the end.

John

[Lynn McGuire]

On 8/30/2017 7:58 AM, Anthony Nance wrote:
> Short version:
> Pop on over to
> scifilists.sffjazz.com/lists_books_rank1.html
>
> Check out the top 20, and let me know which ones
> you have *not* read. I'll keep track and report
> back at some point.
>
> For me, I have not read the PKD[1], the Gibson,
> the Niven[2] or the Simmons[also 2].
>
> Explanation/Long Version is below in case you're
> interested.
>

> Thanks,
> Tony
>
> Long version:
> I've sort of had a long interest here in the books
> most of us have read - kind of a common conversation
> base for the group. Of course, for any given title
> there seem to be a few of us that haven't read it,
> so I'm not sure what that common base really is.
>
> So I'm curious to see how many we've all read
> (if any), how many almost all of us have read, etc.
> Maybe we'll find out what some of the rasfw
> "Lingua Franca" is comprised of.
>
> Note:
> There are actually many lists at this site, and
> the link above is specifically Science Fiction
> (by whatever criteria they've used). If things
> work out, I may do this with a few of the other
> lists, or go farther down this list (21-40), etc.
>
> [1] I've seen Blade Runner, though.
> [2] I have both of these, but they seems to be
> (permanently?) stuck in the TBR pile.

The only book that I have not read in the top 30 books is:
_Hitch-Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy_

Lynn

[Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)]

On 8/30/17 8:31 PM, Chris Buckley wrote:
> On 2017-08-30, Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>>
>> Overall, I don't like the list in its long form. There are WAY too many
>> repeated authors (OSC gets multiple entries just from the Ender series)
>> and thus way too many non-represented authors who should be on any such
>> list.
>
> What would be your suggestion?

Absolute rule: only one per author. If you have such limited space,
letting one person hog multiple slots reduces the utility of the list.
If someone decides to try Author X's book because they see it on the
list, they can find Author X's other books by author search, but if they
don't learn about Author Y because Author X crowded him off the list by
having five entries, they may never do so.

>
> I personally would put both _Ender's Game_ and _Speaker for the Dead_ on
> my list of top 100 books. I don't care about the rest of OSC (well, perhaps
> the collection), but who decides?


Flip a coin if you can't decide which one's better. In this case, I'd
say Ender's Game; it starts the series, without it the others don't make
nearly so much of an impact (and I honestly feel they're vastly weaker
than the original. The original novel isn't as punchy as the short story
either but it makes of for that with detail and depth.

>
> I absolutely would want both _A Fire upon the Deep_ and _A Deepness in the Sky_
> listed; both might make my list of top 10 books.

Again, flip a coin. In this case I'd probably actually HAVE to flip a
coin because they're both awesome books in slightly different ways.
Backed into a corner, I think I hand it to Deepness.





--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Website: http://www.grandcentralarena.com Blog:
http://seawasp.dreamwidth.org

[Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)]

On 8/31/17 9:14 AM, Anthony Nance wrote:
> "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>>
>> Overall, I don't like the list in its long form. There are WAY too many
>> repeated authors (OSC gets multiple entries just from the Ender series)
>> and thus way too many non-represented authors who should be on any such
>> list.
>>
>

> Echoing what Chris said, I think you're describing a different list,
> with a different goal - which is fine, of course - lots of ways to
> rate, categorize, etc. The Top 100 folks seem to be aiming for the top,
> regardless of who wrote them. I doubt anyone's top/favorite 100 books
> would turn out to be written by 100 different authors.

I'd simply prefer they limit it to one per author; we can assume that
in most cases an author with one awesome book has written more. There
are, of course, exceptions (John W. Campbell wrote the absolutely
amazing short story "Who Goes There", and the rest of his output was
several rungs below that).

[Magewolf]

Which was made into a fun movie,The Thing, which was apparently popular
in Japan because shout-outs to it show up in novels, manga, and anime.
The most recent one I have noticed was in the currently running anime
Centaur no Nayami. Which is a rather unusual show mixing Cute girls
doing cute things,racism, political correctness, animal people, and the
antarcticain snake-people illuminati.

[Chris Buckley]

On 2017-09-04, Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
> On 8/30/17 8:31 PM, Chris Buckley wrote:
>> On 2017-08-30, Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Overall, I don't like the list in its long form. There are WAY too many
>>> repeated authors (OSC gets multiple entries just from the Ender series)
>>> and thus way too many non-represented authors who should be on any such
>>> list.
>>
>> What would be your suggestion?
>
> Absolute rule: only one per author. If you have such limited space,
> letting one person hog multiple slots reduces the utility of the list.
> If someone decides to try Author X's book because they see it on the
> list, they can find Author X's other books by author search, but if they
> don't learn about Author Y because Author X crowded him off the list by
> having five entries, they may never do so.
>
>>
>> I personally would put both _Ender's Game_ and _Speaker for the Dead_ on
>> my list of top 100 books. I don't care about the rest of OSC (well, perhaps
>> the collection), but who decides?
>
>
> Flip a coin if you can't decide which one's better. In this case, I'd
> say Ender's Game; it starts the series, without it the others don't make
> nearly so much of an impact (and I honestly feel they're vastly weaker
> than the original. The original novel isn't as punchy as the short story
> either but it makes of for that with detail and depth.

Your suggestion would destroy the attractiveness and utility of this
particular list, IMO.

I think it's very reasonable to have a single entry per author
requirement for "best" lists from a single source (reviewer or
whatever). Those lists will get dominated by biases of the source,
but the source still wants to present as wide of view of what they
think as they can. Indeed, I hesitate to post my list of favorites
since there would be an unreasonable number of entries from my
favorites like C.J. Cherryh (nearly 20 books - what can I say? I like
to re-read her!). I completely approve of James having such a
requirement for his lists - he wants to present as many alternatives
as possible.

But I think it's quite inappropriate for this list. The provider has
made a huge effort to avoid as many individual biases as possible, both
in the original selection of works (gathered from many different lists
of top works) and in the ongoing evolution of the list (limited voting
from many sources.)

The requirement of only one entry per author doesn't fit in at all with
those bias avoidance efforts. It's impossible to avoid the provider to
avoid bias when cutting the list down to one work for an author. Flipping
coins is not the answer. For instance, I know of folks who think _True Names_
is the best book by Vinge (they don't like the big complex books). Should
we have coin flips between 3 books by Vinge? Would you really regard the
result as non-biased?

And it's worse when you are asking people to vote on the resulting
list. They are no longer voting for their favorite books. If their
favorite book is not the repesentative of an author, they get stuck at
trying to value whether to vote for an inferior book by the author or
a book by somebody else which, in their view, is better than the author's
representative, but worse than the their favorite. I personally would
be much less interested in voting in such an arrangement, and would be
much less interested in the results, since they reflect unknown biases.

Chris

[Robert Carnegie]

How about: vote for author and book, results are
ranked as total votes for author, and title of
author's leading book?

Although that's then problematic for collaborations,
anthologies, and other complicated authorship.
Like, does _Good Omens_ count as half for Terry Pratchett
and half for co-author Neil Gaiman? And if it's the
featured book for one author, does the other author
get one of their own, as well, or not? What if it's
the top voted book from both authors? Do you list
it twice?

Does enumerating these concerns spoil the fun of
someone else to point them out?

I recently saw mention of the theory that prescriptively
redesigning a collective workspace in any way besides
destructive improves morale and productivity - but it
doesn't work for user interfaces, paradoxically.

[Ted Nolan <tednolan>]

I would also suggest that Maybe Campbell only had one great story, but
Stuart had several..

[Greg Goss]

na...@math.ohio-state.edu (Anthony Nance) wrote:

>> Well, I've not read Solaris....
>

>Great - thanks. Early on, that one is showing up with some frequency.
>Not having read it myself (yet), I'd guess it's a really good story
>that suffered from under-exposure and under-availability when people
>here would have been most likely to read it.

I've been told that early editions suffered from lousy translation,
into French and THEN retranslated into English. Newer editions of a
very famous book presumably have better translation.
--
We are geeks. Resistance is voltage over current.

[Greg Goss]

"Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:


>> What would be your suggestion?
>
> Absolute rule: only one per author. If you have such limited space,
>letting one person hog multiple slots reduces the utility of the list.

I disagree. Some authors make wildly different books, and thus
deserve each book's place. Should Anson McDonald be tarred with
Heinlein's stories?

>> I personally would put both _Ender's Game_ and _Speaker for the Dead_ on
>> my list of top 100 books. I don't care about the rest of OSC (well, perhaps
>> the collection), but who decides?

Speaker was OK. I was glad to have read it, but none of it stuck with
me. Xenocide was unfinisheable.

> Flip a coin if you can't decide which one's better. In this case, I'd
>say Ender's Game; it starts the series, without it the others don't make
>nearly so much of an impact (and I honestly feel they're vastly weaker
>than the original. The original novel isn't as punchy as the short story
>either but it makes of for that with detail and depth.

Deepness never really worked for me. Like Heinlein's Double Star, I
have trouble seeing how everyone else considers them major works.

>> I absolutely would want both _A Fire upon the Deep_ and _A Deepness in the Sky_
>> listed; both might make my list of top 10 books.
>
> Again, flip a coin. In this case I'd probably actually HAVE to flip a
>coin because they're both awesome books in slightly different ways.
>Backed into a corner, I think I hand it to Deepness.
]
--

[Garrett Wollman]

In article <dbf7f9aa-7a81-4c1f...@googlegroups.com>,

Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
>How about: vote for author and book, results are
>ranked as total votes for author, and title of
>author's leading book?
>
>Although that's then problematic for collaborations,
>anthologies, and other complicated authorship.
>Like, does _Good Omens_ count as half for Terry Pratchett
>and half for co-author Neil Gaiman?

I would say, if you're doing this scheme, then there's only one way to
do it: by unique credited authorship. So GOOD OMENS counts
"Pratchett/Gaiman" as an indivisible entity. Likewise Robin Hobb is
listed separately from Megan Lindholm, despite being the same person.
(Or Heinlein/McDonald, as someone else brought up.) The basic
assumption is that different forms of authorship credit were chosen
for a reason. And of course we live in a day when "the real author's
identity" is far more accessible, even in anonymous or ghostwritten
works, than it ever has been.

[Robert Woodward]

In article <f16505...@mid.individual.net>,

t...@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) wrote:

> In article <ook73s$ltg$1...@dont-email.me>, Magewolf <Mage...@nc.rr.com> wrote:
> >On 9/3/2017 10:24 PM, Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) wrote:

(Snip discussion of 100 best SF list)

> >>
> >>     I'd simply prefer they limit it to one per author; we can assume
> >> that in most cases an author with one awesome book has written more.
> >> There are, of course, exceptions (John W. Campbell wrote the absolutely
> >> amazing short story "Who Goes There", and the rest of his output was
> >> several rungs below that).
> >>
> >>
> >Which was made into a fun movie,The Thing, which was apparently popular
> >in Japan because shout-outs to it show up in novels, manga, and anime.
> >The most recent one I have noticed was in the currently running anime
> >Centaur no Nayami. Which is a rather unusual show mixing Cute girls
> >doing cute things,racism, political correctness, animal people, and the
> >antarcticain snake-people illuminati.
>
> I would also suggest that Maybe Campbell only had one great story, but
> Stuart had several..

Actually, "Who Goes There" appeared in _Astounding SF_ as by Don A.
Stuart.

--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.
‹-----------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward robe...@drizzle.com

[Titus G]

On 31/08/17 09:32, Chris Buckley wrote:
> On 2017-08-30, Titus G <no...@nowhere.com> wrote:

>> On 31/08/17 00:58, Anthony Nance wrote:
>>> Short version:
>>> Pop on over to
>>> scifilists.sffjazz.com/lists_books_rank1.html
>>>
>>> Check out the top 20, and let me know which ones
>>> you have *not* read. I'll keep track and report
>>> back at some point.
>>

>> All except Hyperion, a copy of which I have but have not read having
>> been discouraged here despite rating "The Terror" as a brilliant read.
>
> _Hyperion_ is in my bookcase of favorites, but it's one of those books
> with extraordinary pieces, but the whole is somehow less than the sum
> of the pieces. The framework tying everything together is weaker than
> I think it should be; if that bothers you, then I wouldn't recommend
> it for you. From my general impression of what you like, I don't
> think you'd find it a waste of time to read it, and parts of it I'm
> sure you would appreciate. (I would certainly recommend _Hyperion_ to
> you more than I would either of the Hamilton books, for instance.)

Thank you. This morning I read the priest's tale and found it
fascinating. Based on other comments as well, my expectations are low
but I enjoy his ability to create suspense without anticlimax. For me,
The Terror was slightly ruined by the introduction of the supernatural
late in the story which was 99% Adventure. Hyperion has begun as SF and
I am enjoying the journey so far.

[Titus G]

On 31/08/17 09:32, Chris Buckley wrote:
> On 2017-08-30, Titus G <no...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>> On 31/08/17 00:58, Anthony Nance wrote:
>>> Short version:
>>> Pop on over to
>>> scifilists.sffjazz.com/lists_books_rank1.html
>>>
>>> Check out the top 20, and let me know which ones
>>> you have *not* read. I'll keep track and report
>>> back at some point.
>>
>> All except Hyperion, a copy of which I have but have not read having
>> been discouraged here despite rating "The Terror" as a brilliant read.
>
> _Hyperion_ is in my bookcase of favorites, but it's one of those books
> with extraordinary pieces, but the whole is somehow less than the sum
> of the pieces. The framework tying everything together is weaker than
> I think it should be; if that bothers you, then I wouldn't recommend
> it for you. From my general impression of what you like, I don't
> think you'd find it a waste of time to read it, and parts of it I'm
> sure you would appreciate.

Having now finished reading it, I understand exactly what you mean.

So many fascinating and surprising ideas which kept tumbling in, such
rich backgrounds and imaginative twisting plots were highlights for me
as well as the complexities of time.

> (I would certainly recommend _Hyperion_ to
> you more than I would either of the Hamilton books, for instance.)

I really liked it. Thanks to you and to the others who have posted about
it.

[Lawrence Watt-Evans]

On Wed, 30 Aug 2017 12:58:26 -0000 (UTC), na...@math.ohio-state.edu
(Anthony Nance) wrote:

>Short version:
>Pop on over to
>scifilists.sffjazz.com/lists_books_rank1.html
>
>Check out the top 20, and let me know which ones
>you have *not* read. I'll keep track and report
>back at some point.

Dune, Rendezvous with Rama, Hyperion.

I TRIED to read Dune. Twice.



--
My webpage is at http://www.watt-evans.com
My latest novel is Tom Derringer in the Tunnels of Terror.
See http://www.watt-evans.com/TomDerringerintheTunnelsofTerror.shtml

[Anthony Nance]

Lawrence Watt-Evans <misencha...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Aug 2017 12:58:26 -0000 (UTC), na...@math.ohio-state.edu
> (Anthony Nance) wrote:
>
>>Short version:
>>Pop on over to
>>scifilists.sffjazz.com/lists_books_rank1.html
>>
>>Check out the top 20, and let me know which ones
>>you have *not* read. I'll keep track and report
>>back at some point.
>
> Dune, Rendezvous with Rama, Hyperion.
>
> I TRIED to read Dune. Twice.
>

Interesting! That's the first response (out of 32-ish) that misses Dune.
- Tony

[Juho Julkunen]

In article <oq08sv$3pj$1...@dont-email.me>, na...@math.ohio-state.edu
says...

You can't miss Dune. You have to go around it.

--
Juho Julkunen