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What I have been reading lately 13/12/12
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Al Lal
Dec 12, 2012, 7:19:48 PM12/12/12
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I have only completed reading one book in the past few months, and that is Robin Cook's Death benefit. It is a medical thriller about research in growing organs using stem cells. Some might say that is not what is generally considered SF, but there's medical speculation and science and it is fiction.
The book gets of to a good start, and I enjoyed learning not only about the science, but also getting to know the heroin and the scientist she works for. There are some unsavory characters who are financial experts who are buying people's life insurance policies from desperate sellers hoping to get the payout from dying people. Financial people in my experience will do almost anything (they can get away with) to make money, so I do not mind this negative portrayal of financial people. Being able to grow organs can extend lives, and thus threatens the future cash flow of the financial business.
It is my understanding that (in some countries) people cannot collect insurance money from the death of strangers. In USA can you collect life insurance on strangers? Or maybe the author is just using his creative license to speculate on what might be.
The middle of the book moves away from the initial science and focuses on other things, which I cannot mention without giving away the plot. The book starts strong, but the finish is not so good. I rate this book a 7/10. If you like medicine and see the devil in financial experts then this book is for you.
Abhinav Lal
Creator & Rebel
"Imagination is more important than knowledge"
-- Albert Einstein
The book gets of to a good start, and I enjoyed learning not only about the science, but also getting to know the heroin and the scientist she works for. There are some unsavory characters who are financial experts who are buying people's life insurance policies from desperate sellers hoping to get the payout from dying people. Financial people in my experience will do almost anything (they can get away with) to make money, so I do not mind this negative portrayal of financial people. Being able to grow organs can extend lives, and thus threatens the future cash flow of the financial business.
It is my understanding that (in some countries) people cannot collect insurance money from the death of strangers. In USA can you collect life insurance on strangers? Or maybe the author is just using his creative license to speculate on what might be.
The middle of the book moves away from the initial science and focuses on other things, which I cannot mention without giving away the plot. The book starts strong, but the finish is not so good. I rate this book a 7/10. If you like medicine and see the devil in financial experts then this book is for you.
Abhinav Lal
Creator & Rebel
"Imagination is more important than knowledge"
-- Albert Einstein
Brenda Clough
Dec 12, 2012, 10:11:29 PM12/12/12
to
On 12/12/2012 7:19 PM, Al Lal wrote:
> I have only completed reading one book in the past few months, and that is Robin Cook's Death benefit. It is a medical thriller about research in growing organs using stem cells. Some might say that is not what is generally considered SF, but there's medical speculation and science and it is fiction.
>
> The book gets of to a good start, and I enjoyed learning not only about the science, but also getting to know the heroin and the scientist she works for. There are some unsavory characters who are financial experts who are buying people's life insurance policies from desperate sellers hoping to get the payout from dying people. Financial people in my experience will do almost anything (they can get away with) to make money, so I do not mind this negative portrayal of financial people. Being able to grow organs can extend lives, and thus threatens the future cash flow of the financial business.
>
> It is my understanding that (in some countries) people cannot collect insurance money from the death of strangers. In USA can you collect life insurance on strangers? Or maybe the author is just using his creative license to speculate on what might be.
>
Yes, you can. If I have life insurance I can essentially sell the
> I have only completed reading one book in the past few months, and that is Robin Cook's Death benefit. It is a medical thriller about research in growing organs using stem cells. Some might say that is not what is generally considered SF, but there's medical speculation and science and it is fiction.
>
> The book gets of to a good start, and I enjoyed learning not only about the science, but also getting to know the heroin and the scientist she works for. There are some unsavory characters who are financial experts who are buying people's life insurance policies from desperate sellers hoping to get the payout from dying people. Financial people in my experience will do almost anything (they can get away with) to make money, so I do not mind this negative portrayal of financial people. Being able to grow organs can extend lives, and thus threatens the future cash flow of the financial business.
>
> It is my understanding that (in some countries) people cannot collect insurance money from the death of strangers. In USA can you collect life insurance on strangers? Or maybe the author is just using his creative license to speculate on what might be.
>
benefit to some other person, making them the beneficiary of the policy
in exchange for a lump sum. This person then can collect the
(presumably larger) benefit sum when I die.
A policy holder might do this if he became ill with a terminal disease
and needed money for treatment. Then instead of having the full benefit
sum available only after death, he could get a portion of it in advance
to pay doctors.
If you have the right type of insurance, you can essentially do this
with the life insurance company itself. In that case it is more like
you are banking regular sums with the insurance company and then
withdrawing some of the accrued balance.
All of these tactics are open to heinous abuse. The third-party
beneficiary bit is a fine motive for a murder novel, for instance.
Brenda
--
My latest novel SPEAK TO OUR DESIRES is available exclusively from Book
View Cafe.
http://www.bookviewcafe.com/index.php/Brenda-Clough/Novels/Speak-to-Our-Desires-Chapter-01
Rod Speed
Dec 12, 2012, 10:21:01 PM12/12/12
to
Al Lal <alal1...@gmail.com> wrote
> I have only completed reading one book in the past few
> months, and that is Robin Cook's Death benefit. It is a
> medical thriller about research in growing organs using
> stem cells. Some might say that is not what is generally
> considered SF, but there's medical speculation and
> science and it is fiction.
> The book gets of to a good start, and I enjoyed learning
> not only about the science, but also getting to know the
> heroin and the scientist she works for. There are some
> unsavory characters who are financial experts who are
> buying people's life insurance policies from desperate
> sellers hoping to get the payout from dying people.
> Financial people in my experience will do almost anything
> (they can get away with) to make money, so I do not mind
> this negative portrayal of financial people. Being able to
> grow organs can extend lives, and thus threatens the
> future cash flow of the financial business.
> It is my understanding that (in some countries) people
> cannot collect insurance money from the death of strangers.
Correct.
> In USA can you collect life insurance on strangers?
Depends on what you mean by strangers. Its certainly
legal to get life insurance on your employees and
get the money when they die etc. You don't even
need to inform them that you have insured their life.
> I have only completed reading one book in the past few
> months, and that is Robin Cook's Death benefit. It is a
> medical thriller about research in growing organs using
> stem cells. Some might say that is not what is generally
> considered SF, but there's medical speculation and
> science and it is fiction.
> The book gets of to a good start, and I enjoyed learning
> not only about the science, but also getting to know the
> heroin and the scientist she works for. There are some
> unsavory characters who are financial experts who are
> buying people's life insurance policies from desperate
> sellers hoping to get the payout from dying people.
> Financial people in my experience will do almost anything
> (they can get away with) to make money, so I do not mind
> this negative portrayal of financial people. Being able to
> grow organs can extend lives, and thus threatens the
> future cash flow of the financial business.
> It is my understanding that (in some countries) people
> cannot collect insurance money from the death of strangers.
> In USA can you collect life insurance on strangers?
legal to get life insurance on your employees and
get the money when they die etc. You don't even
need to inform them that you have insured their life.
William December Starr
Dec 12, 2012, 10:38:44 PM12/12/12
to
In article <d19987d4-806d-4c87...@googlegroups.com>,
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate-owned_life_insurance>
Corporate-owned life insurance
(Note: I found this while searching on what I thought I remembered
the name was: "serf insurance". Turns out that "dead peasants
insurance" was the term I was misremembering. --wds)
Corporate-owned life insurance (COLI), is life insurance
on employees' lives that is owned by the employer, with
benefits payable either to the employer or directly to
the employee's families. Pejorative names for the
practice include janitor's insurance and dead peasants
insurance, the latter of which refers to the plot of
Nikolai Gogol's novel Dead Souls.^[1] When the employer
is a bank, the insurance is known as a bank owned life
insurance (BOLI).^[2]
COLI was originally purchased on the lives of key
employees and executives by a company to hedge against
the financial cost of losing key employees to unexpected
death, the risk of recruiting and training replacements
of necessary or highly-trained personnel, or to fund
corporate obligations to redeem stock upon the death of
an owner. This use is commonly known as "key man" or
"key person" insurance. Although this article refers
only to practice and policy in the United States, key
person insurance is used in other countries as well.
Primarily in the 1990s, some companies aggressively
insured a broad base of employees, as part of general
hiring requirements, and never without the employee's
written consent. During the hiring process, employees
sign many documents, including life, health and welfare
coverage agreements or applications for insurance.
Additionally, up until 1984, certain premiums for life
insurance were leveraged and deducted, in essence
creating a transaction with highest possible tax
benefits. Even today, when a COLI plan's death benefits
are paid to an employees family directly, the company
paying the premiums can deduct them from corporate
profits and earnings legally. In 2006, the U.S. Congress
and the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) set some
guidelines and limits on the installation and
administration of COLI and BOLI.
Today, COLI is most common for senior executives of a
firm, but its use for general employees is still
sometimes practiced, primarily as a real economic
transaction for Voluntary Employee Benefit Associations
(VEBAs).
-- wds
Al Lal <alal1...@gmail.com> said:
> It is my understanding that (in some countries) people cannot
> collect insurance money from the death of strangers. In USA can
> you collect life insurance on strangers? Or maybe the author is
> just using his creative license to speculate on what might be.
This may not be precisely what you asked about, but:
> It is my understanding that (in some countries) people cannot
> collect insurance money from the death of strangers. In USA can
> you collect life insurance on strangers? Or maybe the author is
> just using his creative license to speculate on what might be.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate-owned_life_insurance>
Corporate-owned life insurance
(Note: I found this while searching on what I thought I remembered
the name was: "serf insurance". Turns out that "dead peasants
insurance" was the term I was misremembering. --wds)
Corporate-owned life insurance (COLI), is life insurance
on employees' lives that is owned by the employer, with
benefits payable either to the employer or directly to
the employee's families. Pejorative names for the
practice include janitor's insurance and dead peasants
insurance, the latter of which refers to the plot of
Nikolai Gogol's novel Dead Souls.^[1] When the employer
is a bank, the insurance is known as a bank owned life
insurance (BOLI).^[2]
COLI was originally purchased on the lives of key
employees and executives by a company to hedge against
the financial cost of losing key employees to unexpected
death, the risk of recruiting and training replacements
of necessary or highly-trained personnel, or to fund
corporate obligations to redeem stock upon the death of
an owner. This use is commonly known as "key man" or
"key person" insurance. Although this article refers
only to practice and policy in the United States, key
person insurance is used in other countries as well.
Primarily in the 1990s, some companies aggressively
insured a broad base of employees, as part of general
hiring requirements, and never without the employee's
written consent. During the hiring process, employees
sign many documents, including life, health and welfare
coverage agreements or applications for insurance.
Additionally, up until 1984, certain premiums for life
insurance were leveraged and deducted, in essence
creating a transaction with highest possible tax
benefits. Even today, when a COLI plan's death benefits
are paid to an employees family directly, the company
paying the premiums can deduct them from corporate
profits and earnings legally. In 2006, the U.S. Congress
and the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) set some
guidelines and limits on the installation and
administration of COLI and BOLI.
Today, COLI is most common for senior executives of a
firm, but its use for general employees is still
sometimes practiced, primarily as a real economic
transaction for Voluntary Employee Benefit Associations
(VEBAs).
-- wds
Greg Goss
Dec 14, 2012, 12:44:16 AM12/14/12
to
Al Lal <alal1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>It is my understanding that (in some countries) people cannot collect insurance money from the death of strangers. In USA can you collect life insurance on strangers? Or maybe the author is just using his creative license to speculate on what might be.
I have had this offered to me as an investment. I didn't buy into it
>It is my understanding that (in some countries) people cannot collect insurance money from the death of strangers. In USA can you collect life insurance on strangers? Or maybe the author is just using his creative license to speculate on what might be.
because the guys running it were clearly crooked - the deal as offered
orally at the presentation didn't match the legalese in the offering
memorandum.
If someone needs treatment and someone offers him a bunch of money to
pay for that treatment, is it immoral?
This was a Canadian limited partnership structured around buying
"impaired life insurance" policies in the US. The deals had to be
done in the US because Canadian law prevented it.
This was back in 2007. The market for this is probably saturated a
half-decade later.
If my old emails database weren't scrambled I could send you the 120
pages of legalese around the investment concept.
--
I used to own a mind like a steel trap.
Perhaps if I'd specified a brass one, it
wouldn't have rusted like this.
Brian M. Scott
Dec 14, 2012, 1:47:43 AM12/14/12
to
On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 22:44:16 -0700, Greg Goss
<go...@gossg.org> wrote in
<news:aivsla...@mid.individual.net> in
rec.arts.sf.written:
> Al Lal <alal1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> It is my understanding that (in some countries) people
>> cannot collect insurance money from the death of
>> strangers. In USA can you collect life insurance on
>> strangers? Or maybe the author is just using his
>> creative license to speculate on what might be.
> I have had this offered to me as an investment. I didn't
> buy into it because the guys running it were clearly
> crooked - the deal as offered orally at the presentation
> didn't match the legalese in the offering memorandum.
[...]
> This was back in 2007. The market for this is probably
> saturated a half-decade later.
I'm surprised that it was that late: the big boom in
viaticals, so far as I know, was a number of years earlier.
Rapid progress in treatment of AIDS pretty much did in that
boom.
Brian
<go...@gossg.org> wrote in
<news:aivsla...@mid.individual.net> in
rec.arts.sf.written:
> Al Lal <alal1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> It is my understanding that (in some countries) people
>> cannot collect insurance money from the death of
>> strangers. In USA can you collect life insurance on
>> strangers? Or maybe the author is just using his
>> creative license to speculate on what might be.
> I have had this offered to me as an investment. I didn't
> buy into it because the guys running it were clearly
> crooked - the deal as offered orally at the presentation
> didn't match the legalese in the offering memorandum.
> This was back in 2007. The market for this is probably
> saturated a half-decade later.
viaticals, so far as I know, was a number of years earlier.
Rapid progress in treatment of AIDS pretty much did in that
boom.
Brian
Thomas Womack
Dec 14, 2012, 3:42:55 AM12/14/12
to
In article <aivsla...@mid.individual.net>,
http://www.propublica.org/article/death-takes-a-policy-how-a-lawyer-exploited-the-fine-print
which seemed from some descriptions a lot more like an exploit than
like a scam: they offered terminally-ill people a few thousand dollars
to be the X on policies whose format was 'Y gets the return from this
investment, or his capital back if X dies'. The people who were
losing money were the insurance companies not the people dying.
(the exploit being because Rhode Island law didn't require Y to have
an insurable interest in X, and insurance companies didn't check)
Tom
Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote:
>Al Lal <alal1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>It is my understanding that (in some countries) people cannot collect insurance money from the death of strangers. In USA can you collect life insurance on strangers? Or maybe the author is just using his creative license to speculate on what might be.
>
>I have had this offered to me as an investment. I didn't buy into it
>because the guys running it were clearly crooked - the deal as offered
>orally at the presentation didn't match the legalese in the offering
>memorandum.
I'm wondering whether that was something like
>Al Lal <alal1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>It is my understanding that (in some countries) people cannot collect insurance money from the death of strangers. In USA can you collect life insurance on strangers? Or maybe the author is just using his creative license to speculate on what might be.
>
>I have had this offered to me as an investment. I didn't buy into it
>because the guys running it were clearly crooked - the deal as offered
>orally at the presentation didn't match the legalese in the offering
>memorandum.
http://www.propublica.org/article/death-takes-a-policy-how-a-lawyer-exploited-the-fine-print
which seemed from some descriptions a lot more like an exploit than
like a scam: they offered terminally-ill people a few thousand dollars
to be the X on policies whose format was 'Y gets the return from this
investment, or his capital back if X dies'. The people who were
losing money were the insurance companies not the people dying.
(the exploit being because Rhode Island law didn't require Y to have
an insurable interest in X, and insurance companies didn't check)
Tom
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