The Slide Rule

[tphile2]

Does anyone still use a slide rule or even own one? When I was in
school the Texas Instrument pocket calculator was the big item to own
and use, so we never had to learn how to use the slide rule.
We see it in plenty of old SF movies and the movie Apollo 13 and also
featured in written SF, especially Heinlein Juveniles.

[Quadibloc]

On Feb 2, 2:18 pm, tphile2 <tphi...@cableone.net> wrote:
> Does anyone still use a slide rule or even own one?

I did own a few of them, and on my web site,

http://www.quadibloc.com/math/slrint.htm

I have some discussion of them. But, no, I don't use them normally,
although I still know how.

John Savard

[Quadibloc]

Of course, there are many better sites about slide rules than mine.

http://www.paulburgess.org/srule.html
http://sliderulemuseum.com/
http://www.marksmath.com/slide-rules/

just for starters.

John Savard

[Quadibloc]

Here are some more:

http://www.sphere.bc.ca/test/sruniverse.html
(this may be a duplicate of the slide rule museum link in the previous
post)

http://www.hpmuseum.org/sliderul.htm
http://www.sliderule.ca/
http://foraker.research.att.com/~davek/slide/

http://sliderules.lovett.com/index2.cgi

(top page is
http://sliderules.lovett.com/index.html
but this one has the interesting stuff)

John Savard

[William Hyde]

I still own a slide rule but never got particularly good at it, as
most of the arithmetic I was required to do I could do in my head,
particularly if absolute precision wasn't needed.

By the time my faculties declined, calculators were cheap.

William Hyde

[William F. Adams]

On Feb 2, 4:18 pm, tphile2 <tphi...@cableone.net> wrote:

Still have one --- don't use it, math was never my forte and I believe
in having programs like Freehand and TeX do calculations.

Still have a proportion wheel, though I wrote this:

http://mysite.verizon.net/william_franklin_adams/portfolio/interfaceconcepts/proportionbar.zip

http://mysite.verizon.net/william_franklin_adams/portfolio/interfaceconcepts/proportionbar.app.sit

William

[Des]

I no longer have one, used have a split cane one which was stolen. I
did engineering 1967 to 1971 and calculators were forbidden. I don't
think scientific ones were commercially available until I was in third
or final year and they were so expensive that only the relatively
wealthy could afford them which would have given them an edge in
exams, so we were all very proficient with slide rules and log tables/
trig tables.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

In article <c4c255ab-ff85-4e27...@pk8g2000pbb.googlegroups.com>,

Hal owns several, and probably still knows how to use it, I'm
sure. But they're packed away somewhere.

I never learned to use one, but when I was taking Physics for
Non-Majors, aka Physics 10, aka Bonehead Physics, I had a
housemate who was in the same section and did know how to use a
slide rule.

So every Wednesday evening (the section met on Tuesdays, when the
problem sets were handed out, and Thursdays, when they were
collected) we'd meet in the kitchen and work our problem sets
together. I'd set up the equations, and she'd work 'em on her
slide rule.

(Maybe you can see where this is going?)

Came the final, we were all seated far apart from each other, and
me with neither a slide rule nor the ability to use it, and I am
HORRIBLE at arithmetic and it took me minutes to work out each
problem.

So I though, "Wotthehell, this is a physics class not a math class,
if I set up all the equations and then work all the ones I have time
for, I'll maybe get partial credit." So I did that.

Came the final grades. I got an A in the course, my housemate
got a C.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Should you wish to email me, you'd better use the gmail edress.
Kithrup's all spammy and hotmail's been hacked.

[Dave Hansen]

I own one. Actually, I own two: my wristwatch incorporates a simple
circular slide rule with some extra marks that provide useful
conversions between knots, miles, and km, as well as liters and
gallons (U.S. and Imperial), as well as the corresponding weight (in
lbs) of "fuel" and oil (fuel is 6 lb/gal oil is 7.5).

I also have an aluminum K&E with about a dozen different scales I
bought on eBay, jus 'cause I thought it was cool. I know how to
multiply and divide, and how the sine and cosine work, and that's
about it. The HP-45 came out when I was in 7th grade. Too rich for
my budget, but cheaper options were available, and they never taught
us how to use a slide rule.

Today I have an HP-48 on my desk. I know how to use that that _much_
better than a slide rule, but I still don't use more than about 5% of
its capabilities...

Regards,

-=Dave

[David DeLaney]

I own one, and know how to use it, but don't know where it is.

Dave "I know where some of my towels are though" DeLaney
--
\/David DeLaney posting from d...@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

[Kip Williams]

William F. Adams wrote:

> Still have a proportion wheel
...

I have a couple of those. I always yearned for a circular slide rule. I
was using the wheels at work for a couple of years at least before it
dawned on me that they were a form of circular slide rule.


Kip W
rasfw

[Kip Williams]

I seldom have need for computations, but I have a couple of 12-inch
rules, one plastic (bought for a quarter off of another student in high
school), one metal. I also have my late uncle's old four-inch rule,
which he obviously cherished, and an eight-foot K&E in my bedroom.


Kip W
rasfw

[Robert A. Woodward]

In article
<c4c255ab-ff85-4e27...@pk8g2000pbb.googlegroups.com>
,
tphile2 <tph...@cableone.net> wrote:

I haven't used either for some time, but I bought 2 slide rules
decades ago (I think I know where they are). My second one is a
bamboo core double sided rule with a leather carrying case almost
stout enough to use a blunt instrument (1). Actually, since my
mother sent me 2 of my father's (he had 5), I have 4 slide rules.

Using one is fairly simple, they are analog log tables and ... oh,
you probably don't know what those are either.

1) I wanted a good slide rule that I could use for years. However,
I bought it a year or two before HP introduced the original HP-35
calculator (<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HP-35>).

--
Robert Woodward <robe...@drizzle.com>
<http://www.drizzle.com/~robertaw>

[Cryptoengineer]

I own a couple, including a nice circular. I keep them for sentimental
reasons.

I do know how to use them. I graduated high school in 1975, and my
main present was an HP-21c. At school, and later at college, they were
still banned in exams; I learned math using a slide rule and log/trig
tables.

It's interesting watching tech creep into the classroom. First, they
gave up on stopping kids using calculators for homework; that was
nearly unenforceable anyways. Then they allowed 4-function
calculators; then scientific, but non-programmable.

My daughter now uses an advanced graphing calculator in class, but
isn't allowed to use the equivalent app on her cellphone.

pt

[Michael Stemper]

In article <c4c255ab-ff85-4e27...@pk8g2000pbb.googlegroups.com>, tphile2 <tph...@cableone.net> writes:

>Does anyone still use a slide rule or even own one?

I still own, not only my K&E log-log decitrig that got me through college,
but also two or three of my grandfather's. His are all over a century old
at this point. They're also wood (bamboo, I think) with glass cursors.

--
Michael F. Stemper
#include <Standard_Disclaimer>
Indians scattered on dawn's highway bleeding;
Ghosts crowd the young child's fragile eggshell mind.

[Bill Gill]

I was and engineering tech in 1971. I recall the wonder we
all felt when our chief engineer got a 4 function calculator.
He (well the company) paid several hundred dollars for it.

Bill

[James Silverton]

I went thro' college using slide rules tho' we had access to
electromechanical calculators in graduate school in the 50's and there
were sometimes calculations where they were needed. We summed numbers
for Fourier series calculations with electric adding machines. 1971
would be when my lab bought its first Hewlett-Packard calculator. It was
also stolen within a month!

--
Jim Silverton

Extraneous "not" in Reply To.

[Larry]

In article <slrnjj1a5...@gatekeeper.vic.com>, d...@gatekeeper.vic.com
says...

>
> tphile2 <tph...@cableone.net> wrote:
> >Does anyone still use a slide rule or even own one? When I was in
> >school the Texas Instrument pocket calculator was the big item to own
> >and use, so we never had to learn how to use the slide rule.
> >We see it in plenty of old SF movies and the movie Apollo 13 and also
> >featured in written SF, especially Heinlein Juveniles.
>
> I own one, and know how to use it, but don't know where it is.
>
> Dave "I know where some of my towels are though" DeLaney

I bought one as a freshman engineering student in 1965. I remember I paid
over $50 for it, which was a load of money in 1965, several hundred dollars
in today's money. It was a Keufell and Esser log-log duplex decitrig. I still
have it in my desk drawer, but I haven't used it in 30 years. It still has
the leather case with the belt loop.

I think I bought my first engineering pocket calculator in 1970, and said
goodbye to three significant digits forever.

[Howard Brazee]

People who learn to use slide rules learn proportion, inverse
proportion, significant digits, estimating, and unit conversion.


If every high school graduate learned these and no other math, they
would be much better prepared for the rest of their lives than the
vast majority is now.

--
"In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found,
than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace
to the legislature, and not to the executive department."

- James Madison

[Howard Brazee]

On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 00:06:36 -0500, d...@gatekeeper.vic.com (David
DeLaney) wrote:

>I own one, and know how to use it, but don't know where it is.

Mine is right in front of me, where it belongs.

[michael]

On Tue, 7 Feb 2012 04:05:33 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
wrote:

>In article <c4c255ab-ff85-4e27...@pk8g2000pbb.googlegroups.com>,
>tphile2 <tph...@cableone.net> wrote:
>>Does anyone still use a slide rule or even own one? When I was in
>>school the Texas Instrument pocket calculator was the big item to own
>>and use, so we never had to learn how to use the slide rule.
>>We see it in plenty of old SF movies and the movie Apollo 13 and also
>>featured in written SF, especially Heinlein Juveniles.
>

I've still got all mine, and yes, I can use them. My old standby
was a classic Physicist's model of the Post Versalog, although
I also own a couple of circular rules, one that looks much like
an architect's scale (3 sided, from Germany), and one that
appears to be structurally similar to a Rubik's cube but with
about 6 layers instead of 3. The last one was a gift - quite
nicely made, but I never actually learned to use it. There's
really no need for one anymore; I seriously doubt if most of
the engineers or scientists graduating from college today
could explain what a logarithm is, much less how to use it.
It's sad in a way.

[michael]

On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 00:28:58 -0500, Kip Williams <mrk...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>I seldom have need for computations, but I have a couple of 12-inch
>rules, one plastic (bought for a quarter off of another student in high
>school), one metal. I also have my late uncle's old four-inch rule,
>which he obviously cherished, and an eight-foot K&E in my bedroom.
>

I'd never actually used one of the big multi-foot models before (other
than playing with the one over the blackboard in school), but your
big K&E got me to thinking about it. I was wondering just how
large sliderules got, so I did a Google search. Check this one
out:

http://www.slideruleguy.com/fwst.htm

That's overkill by anyone's standards.

[James Silverton]

There was a spiral-scaled slide rule to get 4/5 places. It was often
found in architect's offices and was fixed to a stand holding the thing
at about 45 degrees to the horizontal. I don't have any pictures but I
can still remember the things.

[Howard Brazee]

On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 17:27:19 -0600, michael <m...@here.com> wrote:

>I'd never actually used one of the big multi-foot models before (other
>than playing with the one over the blackboard in school), but your
>big K&E got me to thinking about it. I was wondering just how
>large sliderules got, so I did a Google search. Check this one
>out:
>
>http://www.slideruleguy.com/fwst.htm

Wow.

This one's size depends on how big your monitor is:

http://www.taswegian.com/TwoHeaded/UniVirtual/UniVirtual.html

[David DeLaney]

michael <m...@here.com> wrote:
>There's really no need for one anymore; I seriously doubt if most of
>the engineers or scientists graduating from college today
>could explain what a logarithm is, much less how to use it.
>It's sad in a way.

And can get you bitten by a young rational!Harry...

Dave "are you NEVER going to let me forget that?" DeLaney

[Sjouke Burry]

Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net> wrote in
news:2fb3j7tc9bi98bvtb...@4ax.com:

> People who learn to use slide rules learn proportion, inverse
> proportion, significant digits, estimating, and unit conversion.
>
>
> If every high school graduate learned these and no other math, they
> would be much better prepared for the rest of their lives than the
> vast majority is now.
>

You wish.

In my school we were ordered to buy a slide role, and then were
told in class never to use it.
The logic of the teaching profession is inscrutable.....

[Brian M. Scott]

On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 16:36:48 -0700, Howard Brazee
<how...@brazee.net> wrote in
<news:tbd3j7t0e1iup1ge2...@4ax.com> in
rec.arts.sf.written:

> On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 17:27:19 -0600, michael <m...@here.com> wrote:

>>I'd never actually used one of the big multi-foot models before (other
>>than playing with the one over the blackboard in school), but your
>>big K&E got me to thinking about it. I was wondering just how
>>large sliderules got, so I did a Google search. Check this one
>>out:

>>http://www.slideruleguy.com/fwst.htm

> Wow.

> This one's size depends on how big your monitor is:

> http://www.taswegian.com/TwoHeaded/UniVirtual/UniVirtual.html

That one crashed Firefox.

Brian

[Howard Brazee]

On Tue, 7 Feb 2012 19:15:50 -0500, "Brian M. Scott"
<b.s...@csuohio.edu> wrote:

>> http://www.taswegian.com/TwoHeaded/UniVirtual/UniVirtual.html
>
>That one crashed Firefox.

I've only run it on Firefox, on Windows (not recently) & on Macs. It
uses Java, so it might be a Java issue on your machine.

[Howard Brazee]

On 07 Feb 2012 23:52:18 GMT, Sjouke Burry <s@b> wrote:

>> People who learn to use slide rules learn proportion, inverse
>> proportion, significant digits, estimating, and unit conversion.
>>
>>
>> If every high school graduate learned these and no other math, they
>> would be much better prepared for the rest of their lives than the
>> vast majority is now.
>>
>You wish.

I wish my statement was true, or I wish people learned basic math
skills?

>In my school we were ordered to buy a slide role, and then were
>told in class never to use it.
>The logic of the teaching profession is inscrutable.....

They can't get kids to take slide rules seriously now anyway.

[Robert Carnegie]

On Feb 7, 4:28 pm, Larry <lar...@peaksky.com> wrote:
> I bought one as a freshman engineering student in 1965. I remember I paid
> over $50 for it, which was a load of money in 1965, several hundred dollars
> in today's money. It was a Keufell and Esser log-log duplex decitrig. I still
> have it in my desk drawer, but I haven't used it in 30 years. It still has
> the leather case with the belt loop.
>
> I think I bought my first engineering pocket calculator in 1970, and said
> goodbye to three significant digits forever.

If you're doing engineering, you may get more digits from a calculator
but I want to see why you think more than three of them are
significant... I think they just fill the LCD with digits 'cause
otherwise it sets solid and doesn't work any more. LED, now, you
evidently didn't turn on power-saver mode...

[Carl Dershem]

tphile2 <tph...@cableone.net> typed in news:c4c255ab-ff85-4e27-
9f31-4bf...@pk8g2000pbb.googlegroups.com:

> Does anyone still use a slide rule or even own one? When I was in
> school the Texas Instrument pocket calculator was the big item to
own
> and use, so we never had to learn how to use the slide rule.
> We see it in plenty of old SF movies and the movie Apollo 13 and
also
> featured in written SF, especially Heinlein Juveniles.
>

I have, somewhere in a box, a very nice decitrig I used in high
school. I don't remember how to use it, though.

cd

[Robert Carnegie]

If there isn't an E. E. "Doc" Smith scene, there ought to be. Late in
the series that started with _The Slipstick of Space_.

[Kip Williams]

Whoa! 532 feet. Incredible.

> That's overkill by anyone's standards.

It makes me feel small and insignificant. At eight feet, you'd think I
could get more digits, but the hairline and tick marks are
proportionately wider, so I'm not sure I gain all that much.


Kip W
rasfw

[JRStern]

On Thu, 2 Feb 2012 13:18:05 -0800 (PST), tphile2
<tph...@cableone.net> wrote:

>Does anyone still use a slide rule or even own one? When I was in
>school the Texas Instrument pocket calculator was the big item to own
>and use, so we never had to learn how to use the slide rule.
>We see it in plenty of old SF movies and the movie Apollo 13 and also
>featured in written SF, especially Heinlein Juveniles.

Have a couple around here somewhere, used them in high school,
possibly even freshman year in college, I don't exactly recall, the
first HP calculators came out while I was in college but more
important, I had switched to non-analog classes in either digital
compsci or non-quantitative linguistics and the like, and could run
numeric stuff to seven or fifteen decimal places on the mainframes if
I had to.

There is basically no reason to use a slide rule today when you can
get a solar-cell powered scientific calculator for twenty bucks at
Staples, or download a five dollar app to your phone, or use the
freebie calculator on your Windows system, or Excel. It would take a
mighty big solar flare or a lot of EMP attacks to wipe them all out.
Even cheap plastic slide rules probably cost more than that, adjusted
for inflation, back in the day.

J.

[Brian M. Scott]

On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 17:17:29 -0700, Howard Brazee
<how...@brazee.net> wrote in
<news:hmf3j7dqqt27hp9vp...@4ax.com> in
rec.arts.sf.written:

> On Tue, 7 Feb 2012 19:15:50 -0500, "Brian M. Scott"
> <b.s...@csuohio.edu> wrote:

>>> http://www.taswegian.com/TwoHeaded/UniVirtual/UniVirtual.html

>>That one crashed Firefox.

> I've only run it on Firefox, on Windows (not recently) &
> on Macs. It uses Java, so it might be a Java issue on
> your machine.

I normally have no problems with Java.

Brian

[Howard Brazee]

On Tue, 7 Feb 2012 16:44:56 -0800 (PST), Robert Carnegie
<rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:

>> I think I bought my first engineering pocket calculator in 1970, and said
>> goodbye to three significant digits forever.
>
>If you're doing engineering, you may get more digits from a calculator
>but I want to see why you think more than three of them are
>significant... I think they just fill the LCD with digits 'cause
>otherwise it sets solid and doesn't work any more. LED, now, you
>evidently didn't turn on power-saver mode...

Looking at a lake that looks about a mile in diameter, and determining
that its circumference is 3.141592658 miles...

[Michael Stemper]

In article <m3q3j79k263nqc7nn...@4ax.com>, JRStern <JRS...@foobar.invalid> writes:
>On Thu, 2 Feb 2012 13:18:05 -0800 (PST), tphile2 <tph...@cableone.net> wrote:

>>Does anyone still use a slide rule or even own one? When I was in
>>school the Texas Instrument pocket calculator was the big item to own
>>and use, so we never had to learn how to use the slide rule.
>>We see it in plenty of old SF movies and the movie Apollo 13 and also
>>featured in written SF, especially Heinlein Juveniles.

>There is basically no reason to use a slide rule today

Sure there are, at least while becoming familiar with numbers and
arithmetic. Somebody mentioned them cross-thread. Working with a
slide rule gives you better
- understanding of relative magnitudes
- understanding of siginifcant figures
- understanding of proportion
- ability to estimate
- ability to calculate order-of-magnitude answers

I don't use one at work, and haven't for a very long time. But, the
years through high school and college and the start of my career in
which all that I had was a slide rule did give me these, to my benefit.

--
Michael F. Stemper
#include <Standard_Disclaimer>

Reunite Gondwanaland!

[JRStern]

I think you get that and more by learning the exponent-mantissa format
of floating point numbers on computers.

Perhaps you forget how easy it is to muck up a slide rule calculation,
misreading the numbers, reversing operand order, using the wrong
scale.

We could start a list of old tech we don't miss, and slide rule would
be up there, I think, somewhere between dial phones and punched cards.

J.

[Adamastor Glace Mortimer]

In article <Lz08p...@kithrup.com>

djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
>
> In article <c4c255ab-ff85-4e27...@pk8g2000pbb.googlegroups.com>,

> tphile2 <tph...@cableone.net> wrote:
> >Does anyone still use a slide rule or even own one? ....

I still own several. I remember how to use them. In fact every
several years I will decide to just play with one and will dig out
something like "Stoichiometry and Structure" and work problems, or
else I'll dig out a physics book and use that. The physics stuff
also allows me to use the "CRC Handbook" (42nd ed.) with the slide
rule. Oh, I so appreciate the computer after such exercises.

In college especially, when I had to go through multiplication or
division followed by log and/or trig functions and ending with
another multiplication or division, I discovered that I was not the
most proficient with a slip stick. Dyslexia was not such a well
known thing then, I just knew that doing a chain of calculations
four or five steps long or longer was always dicey for me.

I have a few slip sticks, the best one being a K&E that is in a
leather holster that can clip onto your belt. I bet if I walked
onto a college campus wearing that thing today I'd get arrested and
Homeland Security would be called to inspect the dangerous looking
weapon I had in a scabbard.

I got my first slide rule by mail order when I was in grammar
school. It was made of wood, with a plastic cursor that was held in
a very thin brass frame. I still have it. I got this while in
grammar school mostly because I'd been inspired by reading "Have
Space Suit邑ill Travel" by Heinlein. In the '70s a four banger
calculator and that "CRC Handbook" made for a tremendous
improvement in my ability to calculate.


Adamastor Glace Mortimer

[Walter Bushell]

In article
<049ce799a45a1a80...@msgid.frell.theremailer.net>,

Adamastor Glace Mortimer <nos...@no.invalid> wrote:

> I have a few slip sticks, the best one being a K&E that is in a
> leather holster that can clip onto your belt. I bet if I walked
> onto a college campus wearing that thing today I'd get arrested and
> Homeland Security would be called to inspect the dangerous looking
> weapon I had in a scabbard.

You'd go to jail for having a weapon of math instruction.

--
It is the nature of the human species to reject what is true but unpleasant
and to embrace what is obviously false but comforting. -- H. L. Mencken

[jack...@bright.net]

Howard Brazee wrote:

>On 07 Feb 2012 23:52:18 GMT, Sjouke Burry <s@b> wrote:
>
>>> People who learn to use slide rules learn proportion, inverse
>>> proportion, significant digits, estimating, and unit conversion.
>>>
>>>
>>> If every high school graduate learned these and no other math, they
>>> would be much better prepared for the rest of their lives than the
>>> vast majority is now.
>>>
>>You wish.
>
>I wish my statement was true, or I wish people learned basic math
>skills?
>
>
>>In my school we were ordered to buy a slide role, and then were
>>told in class never to use it.
>>The logic of the teaching profession is inscrutable.....
>
>They can't get kids to take slide rules seriously now anyway.

So how about getting kids to play with one? Can a cheap plastic one
be put in a cereal box? (The joke goes the toy in the bottom costs
less than the cereal it displaces.) Can you explain it in the space
of the back of a cereal box? "Move the top One mark over the bottom
Two, then three ticks over, we'll call this 23. Now you can choose
any number on the top bar and read off the result of multiplying it by
23. Take the Three mark and seve ticks over...HEY, COME BACK HERE!"

(Speaking of educational toys, weren't Rubik's Cubes supposed to send
kids all "Mimsy Were the Borogoves"?)

--
-Jack

[Quadibloc]

On Feb 8, 1:57 pm, JRStern <JRSt...@foobar.invalid> wrote:

> Perhaps you forget how easy it is to muck up a slide rule calculation,
> misreading the numbers, reversing operand order, using the wrong
> scale.
>
> We could start a list of old tech we don't miss, and slide rule would
> be up there, I think, somewhere between dial phones and punched cards.

It's true enough that there's no reason to go back.

However, while I discuss both slide rules and punched cards on my web
site, I didn't find anything interesting to say about rotary dial
phones.

John Savard

[Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)]

I used to be able to dial numbers on those by toggling the cradle
buttons in the right rhythm. Is that something at all interesting?



--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Website: http://www.grandcentralarena.com Blog:
http://seawasp.livejournal.com

[Jerry Brown]

They could push it like a magic trick; the calculator that ***doesn't
need batteries***! "Special prize if you can find a calculation it
gets wrong!"

>(Speaking of educational toys, weren't Rubik's Cubes supposed to send
>kids all "Mimsy Were the Borogoves"?)

--

Jerry Brown

A cat may look at a king
(but probably won't bother)

[Kip Williams]

Quadibloc wrote:

> However, while I discuss both slide rules and punched cards on my web
> site, I didn't find anything interesting to say about rotary dial
> phones.

We rehearsed a play at an old schoolhouse with a locked dial phone on a
desk. I used to call Time of Day on it by clicking the button on the
cradle the right number of times, mostly just because I resented them
locking it.


Kip W
rasfw

[Charles Bishop]

In article <2fb3j7tc9bi98bvtb...@4ax.com>, Howard Brazee

<how...@brazee.net> wrote:

>People who learn to use slide rules learn proportion, inverse
>proportion, significant digits, estimating, and unit conversion.

Slide Rule Joke: A student is showing a Sweet Young Thing how to use a
slide rule. To keep it simple, he tells her he will multiply 2 x 2. Using
the slide rule to do so, he shows her the answer - "1.99, oh, heck, call
it two".
>

[snip]

I had a couple, including a K&E with the case. I think I actually wore it
on my belt - thought it was a sign of status. I don't think I ever had to
use it for much more than multiplication and division though.
Chem/Physics, no engineering.

--
charles

[James Silverton]

On 2/9/2012 12:29 PM, Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) wrote:
> On 2/9/12 11:45 AM, Quadibloc wrote:
>> On Feb 8, 1:57 pm, JRStern<JRSt...@foobar.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> Perhaps you forget how easy it is to muck up a slide rule calculation,
>>> misreading the numbers, reversing operand order, using the wrong
>>> scale.
>>>
>>> We could start a list of old tech we don't miss, and slide rule would
>>> be up there, I think, somewhere between dial phones and punched cards.
>>
>> It's true enough that there's no reason to go back.
>>
>> However, while I discuss both slide rules and punched cards on my web
>> site, I didn't find anything interesting to say about rotary dial
>> phones.
>
> I used to be able to dial numbers on those by toggling the cradle
> buttons in the right rhythm. Is that something at all interesting?
>
>
>

Yes, I'd heard of that but never learned it. One thing I learned in
Britain was how to dial 999 (equivalent to US 911) in the dark in an
emergency.

[Michael Stemper]

In article <jh0vpv$irq$1...@dont-email.me>, "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> writes:
>On 2/9/12 11:45 AM, Quadibloc wrote:
>> On Feb 8, 1:57 pm, JRStern<JRSt...@foobar.invalid> wrote:

>>> Perhaps you forget how easy it is to muck up a slide rule calculation,
>>> misreading the numbers, reversing operand order, using the wrong
>>> scale.

That, of course, is how use of the slide rule helps you develop the
ability to estimate order-of-magnitude plus one significant digit what
the answer should be. Negative reinforcement.

>>> We could start a list of old tech we don't miss, and slide rule would
>>> be up there, I think, somewhere between dial phones and punched cards.
>>
>> It's true enough that there's no reason to go back.
>>
>> However, while I discuss both slide rules and punched cards on my web
>> site, I didn't find anything interesting to say about rotary dial
>> phones.
>
> I used to be able to dial numbers on those by toggling the cradle
>buttons in the right rhythm. Is that something at all interesting?

Apparently so. When I was in college, I worked at one of the student
radio stations. We had a few phone lines, only one of which was enabled
for long distance. Like the phone in the theater where Kip worked, its
dial was locked. I soon worked out how to jiggle the hook to dial it.

Last summer, more than thirty-five years later, I met up with a few
of my former fellow-announcers[1]. One of them kept proclaiming to
all and sundry, "... and this is the guy who could make calls on the
locked phone by jiggling the hook!"

So, at least *he* found it interesting.


[1] Or were they "fellow forme announcers"?

--
Michael F. Stemper
#include <Standard_Disclaimer>

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him talk like Mr. Ed
by rubbing peanut butter on his gums.

[Walter Bushell]

In article
<ctbishop-090...@global-66-81-251-163.dialup.o1.com>,

Ah, not for looking up functions in the exponential family, like logs,
sines and cosines etcetera?

[Robert Carnegie]

On Feb 9, 2:31 pm, jackb...@bright.net wrote:
> Howard Brazee wrote:
> >On 07 Feb 2012 23:52:18 GMT, Sjouke Burry <s@b> wrote:
>
> >>> People who learn to use slide rules learn proportion, inverse
> >>> proportion, significant digits, estimating, and unit conversion.
>
> >>> If every high school graduate learned these and no other math, they
> >>> would be much better prepared for the rest of their lives than the
> >>> vast majority is now.
>
> >>You wish.
>
> >I wish my statement was true, or I wish people learned basic math
> >skills?
>
> >>In my school we were ordered to buy a slide role, and then were
> >>told in class never to use it.
> >>The logic of the teaching profession is inscrutable.....
>
> >They can't get kids to take slide rules seriously now anyway.
>
> So how about getting kids to play with one?  Can a cheap plastic one
> be put in a cereal box?  (The joke goes the toy in the bottom costs
> less than the cereal it displaces.)

They could print pieces of a slide rule /on/ the cereal box, to cut
out with scissors - if scissors are still allowed.

> Can you explain it in the space
> of the back of a cereal box?  "Move the top One mark over the bottom
> Two, then three ticks over, we'll call this 23.  Now you can choose
> any number on the top bar and read off the result of multiplying it by
> 23.  Take the Three mark and seve ticks over...HEY, COME BACK HERE!"
>
> (Speaking of educational toys, weren't Rubik's Cubes supposed to send
> kids all "Mimsy Were the Borogoves"?)

[*]

[David DeLaney]

jack...@bright.net <jack...@bright.net> wrote:
>(Speaking of educational toys, weren't Rubik's Cubes supposed to send
>kids all "Mimsy Were the Borogoves"?)

Well, not the THREE-dimensional ones, no...

Dave, or the ones with only three or four cubes on a side
--
\/David DeLaney posting from d...@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

[David DeLaney]

As noted before, I don't miss dial phones because I still use one. It's over
<-- there, about a yard away. Works fine. Rings. Works fine during power
outages to call them in to the local utility board.

Dave

[Michael Stemper]

In article <88ce1c05-29e6-4939...@w1g2000vbg.googlegroups.com>, Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> writes:

>On Feb 9, 2:31=A0pm, jackb...@bright.net wrote:
>> Howard Brazee wrote:
>> >On 07 Feb 2012 23:52:18 GMT, Sjouke Burry <s@b> wrote:

>> >>> If every high school graduate learned these and no other math, they
>> >>> would be much better prepared for the rest of their lives than the
>> >>> vast majority is now.
>>
>> >>You wish.
>>
>> >I wish my statement was true, or I wish people learned basic math
>> >skills?
>>
>> >>In my school we were ordered to buy a slide role, and then were
>> >>told in class never to use it.
>> >>The logic of the teaching profession is inscrutable.....
>>
>> >They can't get kids to take slide rules seriously now anyway.
>>

>> So how about getting kids to play with one? =A0Can a cheap plastic one
>> be put in a cereal box? =A0(The joke goes the toy in the bottom costs

>> less than the cereal it displaces.)
>
>They could print pieces of a slide rule /on/ the cereal box, to cut
>out with scissors - if scissors are still allowed.

>> (Speaking of educational toys, weren't Rubik's Cubes supposed to send
>> kids all "Mimsy Were the Borogoves"?)
>
>[*]

<http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?46702>, a story in which some
educational toys fall through a space-time warp to the current time.[1]
Some kids find them, and get to understand non-Euclidean geometry to
the point where they kind of vanish, as in "Star Bright".


[1] FSVO "current" that relates more closely to the writing of the
story than the writing of this post.

--
Michael F. Stemper
#include <Standard_Disclaimer>

Time flies like an arrow.
Fruit flies like a banana.

[Michael Stemper]

In article <slrnjj833...@gatekeeper.vic.com>, d...@gatekeeper.vic.com (David DeLaney) writes:
>jack...@bright.net <jack...@bright.net> wrote:

>>(Speaking of educational toys, weren't Rubik's Cubes supposed to send
>>kids all "Mimsy Were the Borogoves"?)
>
>Well, not the THREE-dimensional ones, no...
>
>Dave, or the ones with only three or four cubes on a side

I can picture one with four cubes on a side, rather than the traditional
nine cubes on a side. Trying to picture one with three cu

[James Silverton]

On 2/9/2012 1:31 PM, Walter Bushell wrote:
> In article
> <ctbishop-090...@global-66-81-251-163.dialup.o1.com>,
> ctbi...@earthlink.net (Charles Bishop) wrote:
>
>> In article<2fb3j7tc9bi98bvtb...@4ax.com>, Howard Brazee
>> <how...@brazee.net> wrote:
>>
>>> People who learn to use slide rules learn proportion, inverse
>>> proportion, significant digits, estimating, and unit conversion.
>>
>> Slide Rule Joke: A student is showing a Sweet Young Thing how to use a
>> slide rule. To keep it simple, he tells her he will multiply 2 x 2. Using
>> the slide rule to do so, he shows her the answer - "1.99, oh, heck, call
>> it two".
>>>
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>> I had a couple, including a K&E with the case. I think I actually wore it
>> on my belt - thought it was a sign of status. I don't think I ever had to
>> use it for much more than multiplication and division though.
>> Chem/Physics, no engineering.
>
> Ah, not for looking up functions in the exponential family, like logs,
> sines and cosines etcetera?
>

As a physical chemist, I did a lot of potential minimization using a
slide rule. There was a Marchant electrical calculator available but it
was slower and its accuracy was not required. My rule was a K&E log-log
engineer's rule, leather belt case and all tho' I never wore it. As I
recall, it cost me $35 or about $260 in present day money.

[lal_truckee]

On 2/9/12 8:45 AM, Quadibloc wrote:
> However, while I discuss both slide rules and punched cards on my web
> site, I didn't find anything interesting to say about rotary dial
> phones.

You can lock the dial of rotary phones, preventing your idiot roommate
from continually calling long distance on your phone bill at 1960s rates.

[Kip Williams]

Charles Bishop wrote:

> Slide Rule Joke: A student is showing a Sweet Young Thing how to use a
> slide rule. To keep it simple, he tells her he will multiply 2 x 2. Using
> the slide rule to do so, he shows her the answer - "1.99, oh, heck, call
> it two".

I read that in Legman's _Rationale of the Dirty Joke_, where it has the
distinction of being pretty much the only clean joke in the book. Only
he has it in a college classroom, and asks for two numbers, and the
inevitable "voice in the back of the room" shouts TWO TIMES TWO, and the
answer is three point nine, nine... eight, but what the heck, we'll call
it four.


Kip W
rasfw

[Kip Williams]

Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) wrote:
> On 2/9/12 11:45 AM, Quadibloc wrote:
>> On Feb 8, 1:57 pm, JRStern<JRSt...@foobar.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> Perhaps you forget how easy it is to muck up a slide rule calculation,
>>> misreading the numbers, reversing operand order, using the wrong
>>> scale.
>>>
>>> We could start a list of old tech we don't miss, and slide rule would
>>> be up there, I think, somewhere between dial phones and punched cards.
>>
>> It's true enough that there's no reason to go back.
>>
>> However, while I discuss both slide rules and punched cards on my web
>> site, I didn't find anything interesting to say about rotary dial
>> phones.
>
> I used to be able to dial numbers on those by toggling the cradle
> buttons in the right rhythm. Is that something at all interesting?

It must be, because I said it too. Only about me, not you. Which, come
to think of it, seems like it ought to be at least 15% more interesting.


Kip W
rasfw

[michael]

On Thu, 9 Feb 2012 10:33:41 -0800 (PST), Robert Carnegie
<rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:

>> So how about getting kids to play with one?  Can a cheap plastic one
>> be put in a cereal box?  (The joke goes the toy in the bottom costs
>> less than the cereal it displaces.)
>
>They could print pieces of a slide rule /on/ the cereal box, to cut
>out with scissors - if scissors are still allowed.
>

They'd have to name the cereal "Nerdies". Kids could eat it out of
specially made bowls that resemble pocket protectors. You could get
a whole retro theme going.

[David DeLaney]

Michael Stemper <mste...@walkabout.empros.com> wrote:
>d...@gatekeeper.vic.com (David DeLaney) writes:
>>jack...@bright.net <jack...@bright.net> wrote:
>>>(Speaking of educational toys, weren't Rubik's Cubes supposed to send
>>>kids all "Mimsy Were the Borogoves"?)
>>
>>Well, not the THREE-dimensional ones, no...
>>
>>Dave, or the ones with only three or four cubes on a side
>
>I can picture one with four cubes on a side, rather than the traditional
>nine cubes on a side. Trying to picture one with three cu

DON'T WRAP IT AROUND YOUR... oh dear, too late.

Dave, besides, the sides have _squares_ normally

[David Dyer-Bennet]

My server doesn't have the parent article, so I'm replying to parts of
that as well as to Dorothy.

djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) writes:

> In article <c4c255ab-ff85-4e27...@pk8g2000pbb.googlegroups.com>,
> tphile2 <tph...@cableone.net> wrote:

>>Does anyone still use a slide rule or even own one? When I was in
>>school the Texas Instrument pocket calculator was the big item to own
>>and use, so we never had to learn how to use the slide rule.
>>We see it in plenty of old SF movies and the movie Apollo 13 and also
>>featured in written SF, especially Heinlein Juveniles.

I've got three or so depending how you count. Within three feet of my
computer at home. I posted photos of them in August 2010
<http://dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/data/2010/08120-pblog/>.

Two good regular ones, a good circulr one, and a couple of weird cheap
ones. One of them is the one I used during highschool (by my physics
course in college I had an HP-29c; I didn't need a sliderule for math
courses at the college level of course).

> Hal owns several, and probably still knows how to use it, I'm
> sure. But they're packed away somewhere.

I should get these stored somewhere sensible. They came out of stuff
from my father's desk.

I remember how to multiply and divide, and can figure out the simple
trig functions easily enough. I used to know how to use the log-log
scales, but have forgotten that.

> I never learned to use one, but when I was taking Physics for
> Non-Majors, aka Physics 10, aka Bonehead Physics, I had a
> housemate who was in the same section and did know how to use a
> slide rule.
>
> So every Wednesday evening (the section met on Tuesdays, when the
> problem sets were handed out, and Thursdays, when they were
> collected) we'd meet in the kitchen and work our problem sets
> together. I'd set up the equations, and she'd work 'em on her
> slide rule.
>
> (Maybe you can see where this is going?)

Heh; I'm suspicious...

> Came the final, we were all seated far apart from each other, and
> me with neither a slide rule nor the ability to use it, and I am
> HORRIBLE at arithmetic and it took me minutes to work out each
> problem.
>
> So I though, "Wotthehell, this is a physics class not a math class,
> if I set up all the equations and then work all the ones I have time
> for, I'll maybe get partial credit." So I did that.

Smart choice. (Perhaps you should have seen the problem coming -- but
there's no really trivial solution; I guess you'd have to have learned to
use the sliderule for at least basic things.)

> Came the final grades. I got an A in the course, my housemate
> got a C.

Hmm; math courses are at least as much about setting the problem up as
knocking it down also.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, dd...@dd-b.net; http://dd-b.net/
Snapshots: http://dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/data/
Photos: http://dd-b.net/photography/gallery/
Dragaera: http://dragaera.info

[David Dyer-Bennet]

Which you can get around by jiggling the switchook. Or just unplugging
the phone (except in the era of the dial phone, they were hard-wired to
the wall) and plugging in another one. You could also take off the
cover where the wire was connected, alligator-clip on a convenient plug
box, and plug in your own phone (or your modem; in hotel rooms).

[Dave Hansen]

On Thu, 09 Feb 2012 16:00:58 -0600, David Dyer-Bennet <dd...@dd-b.net>
wrote:

[...]

>Two good regular ones, a good circulr one, and a couple of weird cheap
>ones. One of them is the one I used during highschool (by my physics
>course in college I had an HP-29c; I didn't need a sliderule for math
>courses at the college level of course).

Ahh, memories. In Jr. High, I lusted after the HP-35. In High
School, it was the 45 and later the 55. I college, I actually ordered
the 29C from an ad in Scientific American. Gosh that was a great
calculator! I read the manual from cover to cover (it was nothing
like any calculator manual you've ever seen, unless you had an HP from
the same era -- it was actually a lot of fun). But for two things (it
didn't do base conversions, and all attempts to get a replacement
battery failed), I'd have never sold it on eBay a dozen years ago.
For significantly more than I paid for it in the first place...

A couple days ago, I took delivery of my third (all purchased from
eBay, for an average price of $40) HP-48. Not like the old days --
the manual is booooring, and the calculator is not nearly so
well-constructed (it's my third one because the other two died of
keyboard failure). But replacing the battery is easy, and it does far
more than I need.

Except base conversions. But I have an HP-16C handy for that.

Regards,

-=Dave

[David Dyer-Bennet]

id...@hotmail.com (Dave Hansen) writes:

> On Thu, 09 Feb 2012 16:00:58 -0600, David Dyer-Bennet <dd...@dd-b.net>
> wrote:
>
> [...]
>>Two good regular ones, a good circulr one, and a couple of weird cheap
>>ones. One of them is the one I used during highschool (by my physics
>>course in college I had an HP-29c; I didn't need a sliderule for math
>>courses at the college level of course).
>
> Ahh, memories. In Jr. High, I lusted after the HP-35. In High
> School, it was the 45 and later the 55.

I was roommates with the fiance of the girl who had the first HP-35 on
campus, so I actually got to play with it a bit.

> I college, I actually ordered the 29C from an ad in Scientific
> American. Gosh that was a great calculator! I read the manual from
> cover to cover (it was nothing like any calculator manual you've ever
> seen, unless you had an HP from the same era -- it was actually a lot
> of fun). But for two things (it didn't do base conversions, and all
> attempts to get a replacement battery failed), I'd have never sold it
> on eBay a dozen years ago. For significantly more than I paid for it
> in the first place...

I don't remember the 29c manual that particularly, but I certainly read
it. I did considerable programming for it, despite the fact that you
had to key them in by hand (no storage medium).

I think mine got trashed long ago (perhaps pre-Ebay), I thought it had
no value at that point.

> A couple days ago, I took delivery of my third (all purchased from
> eBay, for an average price of $40) HP-48. Not like the old days --
> the manual is booooring, and the calculator is not nearly so
> well-constructed (it's my third one because the other two died of
> keyboard failure). But replacing the battery is easy, and it does far
> more than I need.
>
> Except base conversions. But I have an HP-16C handy for that.

I never got the programmer's calculator; I was working with interactive
debuggers mostly, and in higher-level languages often, by then.

[Joy Beeson]

On Thu, 09 Feb 2012 16:00:58 -0600, David Dyer-Bennet <dd...@dd-b.net>
wrote:

> Hmm; math courses are at least as much about setting the problem up as
> knocking it down also.

While taking a Physics test, I jotted down some numbers, realized that
I didn't have the foggiest idea what to do with them, and moved on to
questions that I could answer. I got half credit for the question and
a note saying "Why didn't you finish?"

One of the hazards of teaching a subject you know too well.

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://roughsewing.home.comcast.net/
The above message is a Usenet post.
I don't recall having given anyone permission to use it on a Web site.

[Joy Beeson]

On Thu, 9 Feb 2012 10:33:41 -0800 (PST), Robert Carnegie
<rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:

> They could print pieces of a slide rule /on/ the cereal box, to cut
> out with scissors - if scissors are still allowed.

I saw children's scissors in the school-supplies aisle of a dollar
store just a few weeks ago. Looked sharp enough to cut fabric.

[Greg Goss]

tphile2 <tph...@cableone.net> wrote:

>Does anyone still use a slide rule or even own one? When I was in
>school the Texas Instrument pocket calculator was the big item to own
>and use, so we never had to learn how to use the slide rule.
>We see it in plenty of old SF movies and the movie Apollo 13 and also
>featured in written SF, especially Heinlein Juveniles.

I was "the calculator kid" in my high school yearbook. I got the
second (or fourth - the first one was defective, and the store I
bought it from took a month to refund my money, by which time I wanted
a scientific one.) We were forbidden from using calculators on tests
in Chem 11 and Chem 12, though our physics class OK'ed calculators.

In grade 12, we offered to buy the teacher a calculator, but he didn't
budge. Except at the end of the year, he announced that the next
incoming class (1976) would be allowed to use calcs.

That slipstick got taped to the wall (in its hard plastic case) at my
first career programming job ("In case of emergency, open case") and I
forgot to retrieve it when I moved on to a different job.
--
"Recessions catch what the auditors miss." (Galbraith)

[Greg Goss]

Kip Williams <mrk...@gmail.com> wrote:

>William F. Adams wrote:
>
>> Still have a proportion wheel
>...
>
>I have a couple of those. I always yearned for a circular slide rule. I
>was using the wheels at work for a couple of years at least before it
>dawned on me that they were a form of circular slide rule.

My brother had a circular slide rule. It took a LOT more space in a
pencil case or other container, was slower to use, and less precise.

[Jared]

On 2/10/2012 1:00 AM, Joy Beeson wrote:
> On Thu, 09 Feb 2012 16:00:58 -0600, David Dyer-Bennet<dd...@dd-b.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Hmm; math courses are at least as much about setting the problem up as
>> knocking it down also.
>
> While taking a Physics test, I jotted down some numbers, realized that
> I didn't have the foggiest idea what to do with them, and moved on to
> questions that I could answer. I got half credit for the question and
> a note saying "Why didn't you finish?"
>
> One of the hazards of teaching a subject you know too well.
>

I took two math courses as an undergraduate in which I learned
nothing (and knew nothing beforehand either). In one of them, I
ended up with a 90% average, which was an A-. In the other, I
ended up with a 20% average (I'm guessing; that may be on the
high side) which was curved to a passing grade of D.

It taught me how important it is to have faith and persist in
going through the motions when all seems futile.

--
Jared

[Jerry Brown]

Just like life.

--
Jerry Brown

A cat may look at a king
(but probably won't bother)

[Robert Carnegie]

On Feb 9, 6:33 pm, Robert Carnegie <rja.carne...@excite.com> wrote:
> On Feb 9, 2:31 pm, jackb...@bright.net wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Howard Brazee wrote:
> > >On 07 Feb 2012 23:52:18 GMT, Sjouke Burry <s@b> wrote:
>
> > >>> People who learn to use slide rules learn proportion, inverse
> > >>> proportion, significant digits, estimating, and unit conversion.
>
> > >>> If every high school graduate learned these and no other math, they
> > >>> would be much better prepared for the rest of their lives than the
> > >>> vast majority is now.
>
> > >>You wish.
>
> > >I wish my statement was true, or I wish people learned basic math
> > >skills?
>
> > >>In my school we were ordered to buy a slide role, and then were
> > >>told in class never to use it.
> > >>The logic of the teaching profession is inscrutable.....
>
> > >They can't get kids to take slide rules seriously now anyway.
>
> > So how about getting kids to play with one?  Can a cheap plastic one
> > be put in a cereal box?  (The joke goes the toy in the bottom costs
> > less than the cereal it displaces.)
>
> They could print pieces of a slide rule /on/ the cereal box, to cut
> out with scissors - if scissors are still allowed.

Then, having reflected, I Googled "paper slide rule", with the quote
marks. Fruitful.

This does show up to confound, or to distract:
http://www.computinghistory.org.uk/det/16102/Thomlinson-s-Equivalent-Paper-Slide-Rule/

"This is a special slide rule designed for the paper and printing
industry and used to calculate the weight and volume of paper, given
the paper size."

It isn't made of paper. Well, it's made of wood.

[Robert Carnegie]

On Feb 10, 11:07 am, Jerry Brown
<je...@jwbrown.co.uk.RemoveThisBitToReply> wrote:

> On Fri, 10 Feb 2012 04:36:44 -0500, Jared <jared4...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On 2/10/2012 1:00 AM, Joy Beeson wrote:

> >> On Thu, 09 Feb 2012 16:00:58 -0600, David Dyer-Bennet<d...@dd-b.net>

> >> wrote:
>
> >>> Hmm; math courses are at least as much about setting the problem up as
> >>> knocking it down also.
>
> >> While taking a Physics test, I jotted down some numbers, realized that
> >> I didn't have the foggiest idea what to do with them, and moved on to
> >> questions that I could answer.  I got half credit for the question and
> >> a note saying "Why didn't you finish?"
>
> >> One of the hazards of teaching a subject you know too well.
>
> >I took two math courses as an undergraduate in which I learned
> >nothing (and knew nothing beforehand either). In one of them, I
> >ended up with a 90% average, which was an A-. In the other, I
> >ended up with a 20% average (I'm guessing; that may be on the
> >high side) which was curved to a passing grade of D.
>
> >It taught me how important it is to have faith and persist in
> >going through the motions when all seems futile.
>
> Just like life.

It /is/ life.

What it's /like/ is religion.

However, it may be profitable to keep doing what you know when all /
seems/ futile, but not when all /is/ futile.

For instance, if you step on your car brake and the car doesn't slow
down, it is a really good time to think of something else to do,
instead.

I suppose that might be the time to take up religion. If only to see
whether it works quickly enough.

[Kip Williams]

Greg Goss wrote:
> Kip Williams<mrk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> William F. Adams wrote:
>>
>>> Still have a proportion wheel
>> ...
>>
>> I have a couple of those. I always yearned for a circular slide rule. I
>> was using the wheels at work for a couple of years at least before it
>> dawned on me that they were a form of circular slide rule.
>
> My brother had a circular slide rule. It took a LOT more space in a
> pencil case or other container, was slower to use, and less precise.

I've browsed ebay, and they often have these Russian calculators that
are circular slide rules in a case, with maybe a four-inch diameter. I
believe they have knobs you turn, so some precision is achieved. Space
scientists used these.

They're mighty cute, but always seem to go for more than I could justify
flinging away on a fancy.


Kip W
rasfw

[Kip Williams]

Robert Carnegie wrote:

> However, it may be profitable to keep doing what you know when all /
> seems/ futile, but not when all /is/ futile.
>
> For instance, if you step on your car brake and the car doesn't slow
> down, it is a really good time to think of something else to do,
> instead.
>
> I suppose that might be the time to take up religion. If only to see
> whether it works quickly enough.

When it happened to me, I was in a cheap used Ford I'd partly paid for.
Smoke came from a wheel well, so I pressed the brake, which obligingly
went to the floor without resistance or effect. I stopped with the
gearshift and emergency brake.

I called my roommate (this was in the month or two in which I was living
in Estes Park), and he said he could drive up the canyon (up highway 36,
because 34 was still pretty much wiped out by the 1976 flood) with no
brakes. He stopped after a few yards, though, and got out. I joined him,
and we ascertained that the right front wheel was no longer attached in
any strict sense of the word.

A junkyard came and got the car and gave me around $25. They also kept
the cans of oil I had ready to put into it. ("We didn't see no oil
cans," they said.)


Kip W
rasfw

[David Dyer-Bennet]

Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> writes:

> Kip Williams <mrk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>William F. Adams wrote:
>>
>>> Still have a proportion wheel
>>...
>>
>>I have a couple of those. I always yearned for a circular slide rule. I
>>was using the wheels at work for a couple of years at least before it
>>dawned on me that they were a form of circular slide rule.
>
> My brother had a circular slide rule. It took a LOT more space in a
> pencil case or other container, was slower to use, and less precise.

Really less precise? The main idea of the circular rule is that
especially the outer scales can be longer for a device that's not hugely
big. And precision relates to scale size. (I own one, but never used
one, so I don't know much about them.)

[Howard Brazee]

On Fri, 10 Feb 2012 09:19:04 -0500, Kip Williams <mrk...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>I called my roommate (this was in the month or two in which I was living
>in Estes Park), and he said he could drive up the canyon (up highway 36,
>because 34 was still pretty much wiped out by the 1976 flood) with no
>brakes. He stopped after a few yards, though, and got out. I joined him,
>and we ascertained that the right front wheel was no longer attached in
>any strict sense of the word.

The only time I had brakes that failed completely, I was in Estes
Park.

--
"In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found,
than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace
to the legislature, and not to the executive department."

- James Madison

[DouhetSukd]

On Feb 2, 1:18 pm, tphile2 <tphi...@cableone.net> wrote:
> Does anyone still use a slide rule or even own one?  When I was in
> school the Texas Instrument pocket calculator was the big item to own
> and use, so we never had to learn how to use the slide rule.
> We see it in plenty of old SF movies and the movie Apollo 13 and also
> featured in written SF, especially Heinlein Juveniles.

Slide rule in one of Vance's Demon Princes is one of the major reasons
I avoid < 1980 SF.

FTL + slide rules? Really? I failed my suspension of disbelief roll
on my d20.

[DouhetSukd]

On Feb 9, 7:23 pm, i...@hotmail.com (Dave Hansen) wrote:
> On Thu, 09 Feb 2012 16:00:58 -0600, David Dyer-Bennet <d...@dd-b.net>

I loved my 48C. RPN forever, yay!

Learned to appreciate programming on it by writing functions to
calculate Squad Leader probabilities given various d6 targets +
modifiers.

Then one time my 48C fell out of the back of my bag in my parent's
station wagon when it hit a pothole. Unfortunately, it then fell
right into the hinge area by the station wagon back door that had
opened. The door proceed to swing shut and must have applied very
severe stresses to it.

HP replaced it, no questions asked. Try that nowadays.

[James Silverton]

I've got a 35s and it can be used both in algebraic and RPN modes.
Mostly, I'm lazy and store things in the memory in algebraic mode.

[James Nicoll]

In article <e3e31fc4-ddfe-4de8...@qt7g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>,

ObSF: ROCKET GIRLS
--
http://www.livejournal.com/users/james_nicoll
http://www.cafepress.com/jdnicoll (For all your "The problem with
defending the English language [...]" T-shirt, cup and tote-bag needs)

[David Dyer-Bennet]

Why? Are you thinking something like FTL takes transhuman-level AI or
something?

[Michael Stemper]

In article <06d0298c-b129-4b39...@lr19g2000pbb.googlegroups.com>, DouhetSukd <douhe...@gmail.com> writes:
>On Feb 2, 1:18=A0pm, tphile2 <tphi...@cableone.net> wrote:

>> Does anyone still use a slide rule or even own one? =A0When I was in

>> school the Texas Instrument pocket calculator was the big item to own
>> and use, so we never had to learn how to use the slide rule.
>> We see it in plenty of old SF movies and the movie Apollo 13 and also
>> featured in written SF, especially Heinlein Juveniles.
>
>Slide rule in one of Vance's Demon Princes is one of the major reasons
>I avoid < 1980 SF.
>
>FTL + slide rules? Really? I failed my suspension of disbelief roll
>on my d20.

I've not read the Demon Princes. The only science fiction that I have
read where I can recall mention of slide rules is Doc Smith and some
of the Heinlein juveniles. So, you could open up to another twenty
years without risking exposure to the dreaded slipstick.

--
Michael F. Stemper
#include <Standard_Disclaimer>
This email is to be read by its intended recipient only. Any other party
reading is required by the EULA to send me $500.00.

[Lawrence Watt-Evans]

On 2012-02-10 10:44:24 -0500, Howard Brazee said:

> On Fri, 10 Feb 2012 09:19:04 -0500, Kip Williams <mrk...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I called my roommate (this was in the month or two in which I was living
>> in Estes Park), and he said he could drive up the canyon (up highway 36,
>> because 34 was still pretty much wiped out by the 1976 flood) with no
>> brakes. He stopped after a few yards, though, and got out. I joined him,
>> and we ascertained that the right front wheel was no longer attached in
>> any strict sense of the word.
>
> The only time I had brakes that failed completely, I was in Estes
> Park.

That's obviously the home of a colony of brake-eating gremlins. Since
my son lives in Boulder and drives a very old Buick, I hope they aren't
spreading.



--
Now available on Amazon or B&N: One-Eyed Jack.
Greg Kraft could see ghosts. That didn't mean he could stop them...

[Quadibloc]

On Feb 10, 10:47 am, David Dyer-Bennet <d...@dd-b.net> wrote:

> Why?  Are you thinking something like FTL takes transhuman-level AI or
> something?

Even if it doesn't, FTL requires more advanced technology than we now
have. And we now have pocket calculators.

So, unless the story is about an alien civilization, or a parallel
world, where science developed along a different path - if it's about
the Earth of the future having FTL - still using slide rules _does_
strain one's suspension of disbelief.

But that just means the story is dated, and I started reading SF
before there were pocket calculators, so I'm not bothered the way he
is, even though I understand the reasoning.

John Savard

[Howard Brazee]

I suspect that during this century, pocket calculators will seem as
anomalous as slide rules.

[Quadibloc]

On Feb 10, 12:14 pm, Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net> wrote:

> I suspect that during this century, pocket calculators will seem as
> anomalous as slide rules.

Yes, as this century still has 88 years to go, and given the current
dizzying rate of progress in electronics... doubtless we'll have
supercomputers wired into our brains, as a minor consequence of being
uploads...

John Savard

[David Dyer-Bennet]

Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> writes:

> On Feb 10, 10:47 am, David Dyer-Bennet <d...@dd-b.net> wrote:
>
>> Why?  Are you thinking something like FTL takes transhuman-level AI or
>> something?
>
> Even if it doesn't, FTL requires more advanced technology than we now
> have. And we now have pocket calculators.

Wait, "more advanced tech" -- does that mean every single piece of tech
used must absolutely be more advanced than we have? That strikes me as
crazy. I can imagine a culture ahead of us in physics and behind us in
biochem, for example; they could perhaps create an FTL drive, but
perhaps they could NOT do DNA identification.

> So, unless the story is about an alien civilization, or a parallel
> world, where science developed along a different path - if it's about
> the Earth of the future having FTL - still using slide rules _does_
> strain one's suspension of disbelief.
>
> But that just means the story is dated, and I started reading SF
> before there were pocket calculators, so I'm not bothered the way he
> is, even though I understand the reasoning.

If it's just that it didn't happen in the past, okay, I guess I could
see that. Much of the SF I've read was like that when I frist read it,
though. The computers in Heinlein, for example, when I read it in the
mid to late 1960s. Never bothered me, and by the end of that time I was
working on our computers professionally.

[Kip Williams]

Lawrence Watt-Evans wrote:
> On 2012-02-10 10:44:24 -0500, Howard Brazee said:
>
>> On Fri, 10 Feb 2012 09:19:04 -0500, Kip Williams <mrk...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I called my roommate (this was in the month or two in which I was living
>>> in Estes Park), and he said he could drive up the canyon (up highway 36,
>>> because 34 was still pretty much wiped out by the 1976 flood) with no
>>> brakes. He stopped after a few yards, though, and got out. I joined him,
>>> and we ascertained that the right front wheel was no longer attached in
>>> any strict sense of the word.
>>
>> The only time I had brakes that failed completely, I was in Estes
>> Park.
>
> That's obviously the home of a colony of brake-eating gremlins. Since my
> son lives in Boulder and drives a very old Buick, I hope they aren't
> spreading.

The only accident we were in in Colorado happened near Longmont, when a
drunk in a pickup ran a red light and we hit him. Totaled our car.

Perhaps it was an omen, minutes earlier, when we were on the big
diagonal between Boulder and Longmont (Baseline? It's been so long now.)
and we were passed on both sides by a couple of drag racers.


Kip W
rasfw

[Kip Williams]

Howard Brazee wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Feb 2012 09:19:04 -0500, Kip Williams<mrk...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I called my roommate (this was in the month or two in which I was living
>> in Estes Park), and he said he could drive up the canyon (up highway 36,
>> because 34 was still pretty much wiped out by the 1976 flood) with no
>> brakes. He stopped after a few yards, though, and got out. I joined him,
>> and we ascertained that the right front wheel was no longer attached in
>> any strict sense of the word.
>
> The only time I had brakes that failed completely, I was in Estes
> Park.

We can draw a straight line through these two data points, and... Great
Scott!

(I was actually closer to Longmont, still on the plains about thirty
miles out of Estes. The smoke that gushed out of the wheel well briefly
was apparently the lubricant around the bearings for that wheel. I wrote
the guy I was buying the car from and said it would take me a while to
finish paying for it, but I never heard back from him.)


Kip W
rasfw

[JRStern]

On Thu, 9 Feb 2012 18:25:19 +0000 (UTC), mste...@walkabout.empros.com
(Michael Stemper) wrote:

>In article <jh0vpv$irq$1...@dont-email.me>, "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> writes:
>>On 2/9/12 11:45 AM, Quadibloc wrote:
>>> On Feb 8, 1:57 pm, JRStern<JRSt...@foobar.invalid> wrote:
>
>>>> Perhaps you forget how easy it is to muck up a slide rule calculation,
>>>> misreading the numbers, reversing operand order, using the wrong
>>>> scale.
>
>That, of course, is how use of the slide rule helps you develop the
>ability to estimate order-of-magnitude plus one significant digit what
>the answer should be. Negative reinforcement.

Piffle. Need to do the same in all calculations, from paper to
supercomputer. Good code carries tons of assertions to double-check
range throughout. Good testing enumerates these rules and violates
them to make sure the checks are in place!

J.

[Howard Brazee]

On Fri, 10 Feb 2012 15:44:54 -0500, Kip Williams <mrk...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Perhaps it was an omen, minutes earlier, when we were on the big
>diagonal between Boulder and Longmont (Baseline? It's been so long now.)
>and we were passed on both sides by a couple of drag racers.

Baseline goes between Boulder and Lafayette. The diagonal highway
you're referring to is referred to locally as "Diagonal Highway".

[Kip Williams]

Howard Brazee wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Feb 2012 15:44:54 -0500, Kip Williams<mrk...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Perhaps it was an omen, minutes earlier, when we were on the big
>> diagonal between Boulder and Longmont (Baseline? It's been so long now.)
>> and we were passed on both sides by a couple of drag racers.
>
> Baseline goes between Boulder and Lafayette. The diagonal highway
> you're referring to is referred to locally as "Diagonal Highway".

Thanks. This is a fact I'd as soon retain. I'll gladly trade anything I
may know about the Spice Girls for it.


Kip W
rasfw

[Jorgen Grahn]

On Thu, 2012-02-09, David DeLaney wrote:

> Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>On Feb 8, 1:57 pm, JRStern <JRSt...@foobar.invalid> wrote:

>>> We could start a list of old tech we don't miss, and slide rule would
>>> be up there, I think, somewhere between dial phones and punched cards.
>>
>>It's true enough that there's no reason to go back.
>>
>>However, while I discuss both slide rules and punched cards on my web
>>site, I didn't find anything interesting to say about rotary dial phones.
>
> As noted before, I don't miss dial phones because I still use one. It's over
> <-- there, about a yard away. Works fine. Rings.

Funny; one of mine is over <-- there too, 2 metres away.

I used it for a while for its nostalgia value, its superior
ergonomics, sound quality and ring signal. It doesn't always ring when
someone phones though -- probably the line's fault rather than the
phone's, but a showstopper nevertheless.

/Jorgen

--
// Jorgen Grahn <grahn@ Oo o. . .
\X/ snipabacken.se> O o .

[David DeLaney]

Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>David Dyer-Bennet <d...@dd-b.net> wrote:
>> Why?  Are you thinking something like FTL takes transhuman-level AI or
>> something?
>
>Even if it doesn't, FTL requires more advanced technology than we now
>have. And we now have pocket calculators.

We, um, don't KNOW that it requires more advanced tech than we now have.
We don't know WHAT it requires. We just know we haven't found out how to do
it yet with stuff we do know about. We know several ways to do it using
exotic materials that are currently light-years beyond what we have, but
nothing says those are the ONLY ways.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from d...@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

[Howard Brazee]

On Fri, 10 Feb 2012 18:32:10 -0500, Kip Williams <mrk...@gmail.com>

wrote:

>>
>>> Perhaps it was an omen, minutes earlier, when we were on the big
>>> diagonal between Boulder and Longmont (Baseline? It's been so long now.)
>>> and we were passed on both sides by a couple of drag racers.
>>
>> Baseline goes between Boulder and Lafayette. The diagonal highway
>> you're referring to is referred to locally as "Diagonal Highway".
>
>Thanks. This is a fact I'd as soon retain. I'll gladly trade anything I
>may know about the Spice Girls for it.

You won't find a taker here.

[Greg Goss]

jack...@bright.net wrote:

>(Speaking of educational toys, weren't Rubik's Cubes supposed to send
>kids all "Mimsy Were the Borogoves"?)

There was a short story (novella?) where a simon-look-alike was
programming kids to be more useful to the imminent invaders.
--
"Recessions catch what the auditors miss." (Galbraith)

[Robert Carnegie]

Michael Stemper wrote:
> In article <06d0298c-b129-4b39...@lr19g2000pbb.googlegroups.com>, DouhetSukd <douhe...@gmail.com> writes:
> >On Feb 2, 1:18=A0pm, tphile2 <tphi...@cableone.net> wrote:
>
> >> Does anyone still use a slide rule or even own one? =A0When I was in
> >> school the Texas Instrument pocket calculator was the big item to own
> >> and use, so we never had to learn how to use the slide rule.
> >> We see it in plenty of old SF movies and the movie Apollo 13 and also
> >> featured in written SF, especially Heinlein Juveniles.
> >
> >Slide rule in one of Vance's Demon Princes is one of the major reasons
> >I avoid < 1980 SF.
> >
> >FTL + slide rules? Really? I failed my suspension of disbelief roll
> >on my d20.
>
> I've not read the Demon Princes. The only science fiction that I have
> read where I can recall mention of slide rules is Doc Smith and some
> of the Heinlein juveniles. So, you could open up to another twenty
> years without risking exposure to the dreaded slipstick.

There's an Arthur C. Clarke story where the computer room is a lot of
people with abacuses.

And an Isaac Asimov that demonstrates that hyperspace travel messes up
robot brains - so....

[Kip Williams]

Howard Brazee wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Feb 2012 18:32:10 -0500, Kip Williams<mrk...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>>
>>>> Perhaps it was an omen, minutes earlier, when we were on the big
>>>> diagonal between Boulder and Longmont (Baseline? It's been so long now.)
>>>> and we were passed on both sides by a couple of drag racers.
>>>
>>> Baseline goes between Boulder and Lafayette. The diagonal highway
>>> you're referring to is referred to locally as "Diagonal Highway".
>>
>> Thanks. This is a fact I'd as soon retain. I'll gladly trade anything I
>> may know about the Spice Girls for it.
>
> You won't find a taker here.

I don't care if anybody takes it, I just want it out to make room in
that brain cell.


Kip W
rasfw

[Wayne Throop]

: Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com>
: There's an Arthur C. Clarke story where the computer room is a lot of
: people with abacuses.

You know what bank used to replace computer? Two hundred clerks
working abacuses. Abacusi? You know, slipsticks with beads, oldest
digital computer, so far back in prehistory that nobody knows who
invented.
--- Manuel Garcia O'Kelly-Davis

[ErictheTolle]

On Feb 10, 8:28 pm, thro...@sheol.org (Wayne Throop) wrote:

>     You know what bank used to replace computer?  Two hundred clerks
>     working abacuses.  Abacusi?  You know, slipsticks with beads, oldest
>     digital computer, so far back in prehistory that nobody knows who
>     invented.
>                     --- Manuel Garcia O'Kelly-Davis

I think I want to go full circle on the concept- I want an abacus
simulator app for my Android. And a slide rule app too, while we're at
it.


Eric Tolle