Conquistador
Paul Austin
time building a world to show off the results riches and an
aristocratic perspective have on environmental management. There's
good guys against two distinct grades of bad guys but no really
eeevilll villains.
Steve lovingly describes a Northern California Paradise, to the point
that the travelogue gets in the way of the story a bit. I can't
evaluate his description of a trip through the desert mit horses but
it makes good reading. My only criticism is that the action is
compressed into too few pages.
Oh, yes and he makes the minor mistake of having one of the
protagonists frying French Fries in olive oil. Olive oil's flash point
is too low to do deep frying. You get either a whole lot of smoke or
_really_ greasy French Fries.
--
"An important difference between a military operation and a surgical
operation is that the patient is not tied down. But it's a common
fault of generalship to assume that he is".
Paul F Austin
pfau...@bellsouth.net
David Bilek
>I just finished Conquistador by Steve Stirling. Steve spends a lot of
>time building a world to show off the results riches and an
>aristocratic perspective have on environmental management. There's
>good guys against two distinct grades of bad guys but no really
>eeevilll villains.
>
>Steve lovingly describes a Northern California Paradise, to the point
>that the travelogue gets in the way of the story a bit. I can't
>evaluate his description of a trip through the desert mit horses but
>it makes good reading. My only criticism is that the action is
>compressed into too few pages.
Complete agreement. I found myself constantly skimming long,
repetitious descriptions of what always sounded to me like nearly
identical landscapes.
"Oh, this time the grass is medium length instead of long? Wheeee.
And there are <blah> flowers instead of <bleh> flowers? Yawn."
It didn't help that I have no idea what most of the plants he talked
about looked like.
The story was interesting, but I hated the characters. I would have
gladly put a slug or two into Tom.
-David
JoatSimeon
put a slug or two into Tom.
-- any particular reason?
JoatSimeon
>Oh, yes and he makes the minor mistake of having one of the
>protagonists frying French Fries in olive oil.
-- ooops! And me a cook. Oh, well, no matter how careful you are with a book,
some reader will find a slip-up.
Worldbuilding would be terrific occupational therapy for lunatics who think
they're God... 8-).
JoatSimeon
Locus, whose review I don't have online yet) thought:
Publishers Weekly
One adjustment to his radio sends John Rolfe VI, a descendant of the Virginia
colonist, from 1946 into a California New World never touched by white men in
Stirling's (The Peshawar Lancers) mesmerizing new novel. Having discovered the
Oakland Gate that allows one to switch secretly between worlds, Rolfe and a
passel of army buddies found New Virginia, a Southern Agrarian "pirate
kingdom," and proceed to build wealth and power on both sides. Stirling
cleverly switches between vignettes of New Virginian history since 1946 and the
"present" of 2009, when a neo-Mafioso is plotting to take over Rolfe's "theme
park of perverted romanticism run amok." In this luscious alternative universe,
sidekicks quote the Lone Ranger and Right inevitably triumphs with panache.
What more could adventure-loving readers ask for?
Copyrightt 2003 Reed Business Information, Inc.
From "Booklist", Roland Green
"Stirling, S.M. Conquistador Feb. 2003
Stirling's endlessly and sometimes perversely fertile imagination now realizes
a world in which Alexander the Great lived to old age. Moreover, the East
doesn't discover the West until 1946, when John Rolfe finds a gate from his
time line to another and sets about discreetly, profitably colonizing the
alternate Earth he discovers on the gate's other side. In 2009, Rolfe's
grand-daughter, investigating a threat to her family's benign feudal despotism,
encounters a California fish and game officer tracking down the source of
certain mysterious birds and beasts. He becomes her lover, ally, confidant,
and spouse, and with odd assorted allies from both time lines, they defeat a
plot to overthrow the Rolfes and viciously conquer the new New World. This is
even more of a romp than Stirling's THE PESHAWAR LANCERS (2002) but while its
action scenes are state-of-the-art and its femmes wonderfully formidables, it
is the sort of romp that has four appendixes of historical backgrounding, not
to mention a blatant opening for a sequel.
YA/L: will keep teen history buffs interested: sf readers will want this to.
CO
Steven Silver
SFrevu
One minute Tom Christiansen is a warden for the California Department of Fish
and Game working with the FBI to crack an animal smuggling ring, the next
minute he's trying to figure out how a practically extinct California Condor
was found without any genetic ties to other existing California Condors. Thus
begins S.M. Stirling's Conquistador, a novel of a parallel California.
Christiansen's investigation quickly expands in scope as he begins to look into
the potentially shady dealings of CM&M, a company with tremendous holdings and
vast charitable contributions, but which seems to hold the key to the smuggling
operation. Eventually, Christiansen finds himself and his partner, Roy Tully,
in a California undiscovered by Christopher Columbus but more recently
populated by post-World War II refugees, who see it has their land of
opportunity.
Stirling has returned to the themes he explored in the Island trilogy by
placing modern characters into an America untainted by European progress.
However, while the Nantucketers of Across the Sea of Time (et seq.) must build
their own world from scratch and have no access to the modern world, the New
Virginians of Conquistador are shown more than six decades after they began
their migration and have continual access to Oakland and whatever technology
they can bring through the Gate. Many of Stirling's novels have been
examinations of dystopias, and while the New Virginia of Conquistador is not a
dystopia, neither is it a utopia. John Rolfe VI, affectionately known as "The
Founder" has built a world with all the modern conveniences, but with a
distinctly antebellum attitude. Furthermore, in populating his new world with
old army buddies and others who have found a need to disappear from our world
without a trace, he has brought together an eclectic combination of society,
most of which is seedy, with the sympathetic ones being brought by chance
rather than the Founder's design.
While Stirling's protagonist and his comrades, from both sides of the Gate are
sympathetic, they have a tendency to suffer from Heinleinian superman syndrome
a little too much. Christiansen, Tully, and Adrianne Rolfe, the Founder's
granddaughter, all have exactly the abilities and knowledge base they need for
any situation in which they find themselves (as do their other comrades).
Furthermore, their personalities mesh perfectly, so their conversations appear
almost to be internal dialogues. Even real disagreements, such as
Christiansen's attitude towards Adrianne when he learns her true story, do not
seem to be particularly tense.
Conquistador's strength comes from both Stirling's ability to create an
interesting world in New Virginia and the ethical dilemma which faces Tom
Christiansen as he must select sides in a conflict which isn't his own and in
which he finds neither side to be either blameless or praiseworthy. Although
Stirling could have spent more time with Christiansen's wrestling with his
conscience to see how much he felt he could suborn his own principles, he does
deal with the issue in a believable manner.
In Conquistador, Stirling has found a good balance of background, character and
plot, leaving the reader wanting to known more about the individuals and the
forces which have made up their world. While New Virginia may not be a place
everyone would want to live, even the characters who populate it, as
Christiansen notes, it is a wonderful place to visit, even for the brief
duration of a single novel.
Copyright © 2003 Steven H Silver
Review by A.M. Dellamonica
John Rolfe comes back from World War II with a mild disability and modest
prospects. That all changes, though, when he accidentally creates a gateway
into another world, a geographically identical Earth whose entry point is his
Oakland, Calif., basement. The California on the other side of the gateway is
very different from the world of postwar America, though. It is a wild land,
one that was never settled by Europeans.
Working with men from his old platoon-people he trusts absolutely-Rolfe sets
about changing all that, mining gold in his secret retreat and selling it in
Firstside (Rolfe's name for their birth dimension). It is an easy
process-history has already revealed where gold and other resources are
located, and American guns and technology are so vastly advanced compared to
those of the natives of California that the new arrivals' decimation of those
peoples is even swifter and more brutal than on Firstside.
Soon, the so-called Commonwealth of New Virginia has a thriving colony of white
settlers, as well as a frightening amount of wealth and political contacts in
Firstside. The fortune, and the people they cultivate, help to protect the
secret gateway connecting the two Oaklands.
Founded as it was by men with mid-20th-century worldviews, and separated from
Firstside and its many cultural shifts, the Commonwealth becomes a paradise of
'50s values: an all-white community whose women are for the most part relegated
to secondary roles in society. Despite its homogeneity, though, the sheer
wealth bred by its industries becomes a destabilizing factor, and Rolfe's
granddaughter is the one on the line when hostilities break out, threatening to
expose them all.
An all-but-untouched California marred anew
In Conquistador, readers see a different invasion of the New World, one that is
very informed by the successes and mistakes of the settlement of Firstside's
North America. The result is chilling. Rolfe and his cohorts build a society
whose segregation and privilege are designed to last forever. Aztec nannies and
menial workers are imported from the South to work for the New Virginians, but
they are on strict contracts-sent home after a set period of time, and
subjected to forcible birth control in the meanwhile. The result is a lower
class with no prospects for collective improvement-the lowest-paid workers of
Rolfe's world will always have poor English skills and no chance of bearing
children who might, by growing up within the master society, learn to exploit
its rules and culture.
The peculiar and artificial nature of the resulting society has intriguing side
effects. With a foot in both the Commonwealth and Firstside, for example,
Rolfe's granddaughter Adrienne is well aware that her job in Commonwealth Gate
Security is rare for a woman-her position is constantly being undermined by
male colleagues, and she must fight for every ounce of respect. The men of
Firstside are easier to deal with and more open-minded. However, such men don't
know her secret, and are thus unlikely candidates for romance.
When a man Adrienne is interested in does learn about the Commonwealth, new
problems arise for them both. How is a 21st-century guy to react when he is
forcibly introduced to a society-or an attractive woman-that maintains a
virtual slave class, actively solicits Firstside war criminals as settlers and
is engaged in exterminating the First Peoples of California?
David Bilek
Okay. I didn't mean that Tom wasn't a well-drawn or realistic
character, but the guy offended me on a personal level.
(spoilers spoilers spoilers)
Uh, first I should note that "put a slug or two into Tom" is hyperbole
as tend not to walk around shooting people that annoy me.
Damn. I've been writing a paragraph or two and deleting it over and
over because, while I have a strong visceral reaction to Tom's
actions, I am having trouble getting the reasons down coherently.
This is why you have a few dozen published books and I don't.
So I'm giving it one more shot and hitting send, forgive me if this is
a little rambling.
It's understandable that the New Virginia world appealed to Tom. And
you can argue he was doing the best he could in a bad situation; even
before the portal closed he calculated that there was next to no
chance of ever being able to get back through. But from what we see
of his thought processes, he was only "making do" at the very
beginning. By the end of the story he explicitly forgives Adrienne
and is no longer simply making the best of things.
It came across to me as a guy who threw aside his loyalties to the USA
and the entire FirstSide world for, essentially, a hot piece of tail
he was infatuated with. A hot piece of tail, I might add, who was
engaged in the greatest criminal conspiracy in history and who had
violently kidnapped Tom and his best friend from everything they knew.
And while Tom saw the dark side of the New Virginian's social order,
he didn't react strongly against it strongly enough, IMO. The
inherent racism, sexism, and classism were apparent to Tom, but by the
end of the story he was only too happy to join in... as one of the
white aristos.
Plus he bought into the whole "First Side is a dirty, polluted, ugly
mess" bullshit. New Virginia was only able to maintain their little
Reich-on-the-Bay because of the high technology they brought over from
this "cesspool". Now that the portal is closed lets see them build
their computers and BlackHawk helicopters without getting their hands
dirty environmentally. Hah!
How long do you think it'll be before they can build a moder
microprocessor fab? Pffft. Sure, their world is pretty. But it's
also bass-ackwards, and that's *why* it's so pretty.
Or, to put it another way, if one of those confederate agrarian
bastards had asked *me* how I could live in such an ugly world, I'd
pull out a picture of the Earth from orbit, ask him or her to produce
a similar picture taken from the other end of the portal, and then
laugh in his or her face.
Er, I'm getting a little carried away here.
As you can see, I don't have a problem with your representation of
Tom. I just think he's at base a traitor. He's a very nice guy
personally, and one you could always count on to watch your back, but
still a traitor.
Now, uh, the hippie physicist.. (Randy? My mind is blanking)... he
was more my kind of guy. He was also forced to make do in a bad
situation, but he didn't turn traitor in the process.
Tom, on the other hand, rolled over like Jacques Chirac offered a bone
by a murdering dictator.
(Oh yes, and while I'm here might I add that the lesbian quotient was
much too low in this novel? How am I to know this is an S.M. Stirling
novel without hot bi babes? I demand more hot bi babes in the future)
-David
(note: I don't hate French people, I just figured Steve would
appreciate my disgust with Tom better with such an analogy since I
know how much he undoubtedly admires Chirac)
David Bilek
I already followed up to this with a long response, but let me add
that my initial post you are responding to here was an unfair
representation of my thoughts in that I posted about two things which
annoyed me without including any of the positives.
I'm too tired to do a full review right now, but in the interests of
fairness I'll sum up:
Excluding one problem I had with the book, I'd rate _Conquistador_ as
about on a level with _The Peshawar Lancers_. If you're a fan of
Steve's previous work you definitely want to pick this one up.
Whether it's worth hardcover price depends on how much of a fan of
Steve's work you are. To new readers, I'd probably recommend buying
the book but also recommend buying in paperback.
I don't think it's the strongest thing Steve has ever written; As I
posted initially, I think he got carried away with certain elements of
style involving repetitive descriptions of the landscape. I skimmed a
lot of that. But the story was interesting and the characters felt
real even if I did want to occasionally beat the main character (a
nice guy) with a two by four.
Given a choice I'd probably prefer a sequel to _Lancers_ or even a
book set in a brand new world to another novel set in the world of
_Conquistador_... but if Steve wrote a sequel I'd buy it. I've never
not finished an "S.M. Stirling" novel, which isn't something I can say
for a lot of authors.
-David
JoatSimeon
>Okay. I didn't mean that Tom wasn't a well-drawn or realistic character, but
the guy offended me on a personal level.
-- no problem. If someone reacts strongly to a character, as if they were a
real person, the author is doing his/her job -- usually regardless of whether
the reaction is positive or negative.
>By the end of the story he explicitly forgives Adrienne and is no longer
simply making the best of things.
-- pretty well. People do tend to forgive those they're in love with -- I
certainly did when I was his age, at least, and up to a fairly high point.
Plus he's been a soldier; he recognizes that you do things as an agent of the
State that you wouldn't as a private individual. He's killed plenty of people
for Uncle Sam, including the occasional innocent bystander.
>for, essentially, a hot piece of tail he was infatuated with.
-- well, throw in great wealth, power, status, and an environment he considers
fairly close to paradise.
(Me, I'm a city boy and a little beautiful countryside goes a long way, but
tastes differ... 8-).
>who was engaged in the greatest criminal conspiracy in history
-- When a criminal conspiracy achieves that sort of scale, it graduates to
"founding a nation".
Which usually involves all the same things as a criminal conspiracy but on a
very large scale and very successfully.
See William the Conqueror, or Captain Smith at Jamestown, or Sam Houston in
Texas. There may be a country somewhere which wasn't founded on large-scale
violence at some point, but I can't think of one offhand.
>and who had violently kidnapped Tom and his best friend from everything they
knew.
-- true, but on the other hand, Tom basically hates most things about the
modern world. It gives him the creeps. Adrienne, you will note, carefully
sounds him out about this soon after they meet. That's why she develops him as
an information source.
>The inherent racism
-- well, there's actually not much racism in New Virginia, because there
effectively aren't any other races in their society. You can't discriminate
against people who aren't there.
Tom's basic attitude is roughly similar to mine: he considers their racially
selective immigration policy silly, possibly somewhat reprehensible, but he
isn't going to get excessively bent out of shape about it.
It isn't as if they're actively doing anyone back here on FirstSide harm by
denying them the opportunity to migrate to a parallel universe, after all!
People from the 1940's had attitudes which differ sharply from ours -- most of
them would consider the America of 2003 to be a horrible dystopia.
No doubt our grandchildren will find something about _us_ to horrify _them_. I
doubt the wheel of cultural change has stopped at the present point.
>sexism
-- his viewpoint is that if Adrienne can stand it, he can. The local gender
attitudes are about what his grandfather and grandmother experienced, and he
doesn't think of _them_ as intolerably evil.
>and classism were apparent to Tom
-- We have a hereditary elite of wealth and power, with some social mobility.
So do they. As Tully notes, New Virginia is simply more honest than the
contemporary US.
The big difference is that it isn't a political democracy. Tom's view is that
this is unfortunate, but again not something that will make the heavens to
fall. Most of the population are reasonably satisfied with the setup, which I
don't think is implausible.
>How long do you think it'll be before they can build a moder microprocessor
fab?
-- quite some time, but then, we did without microprocessors for a long time.
They've made elaborate preparations for possibly losing the Gate; they'll lose
some fancy bells and whistles, but in a neofeudal setup like theirs, that won't
be much of a hardship.
>He's a very nice guy personally, and one you could always count on to watch
your back, but still a traitor.
-- traitor to what? He's not injuring the interests of the United States by
helping Adrienne.
Quite the contrary, since the Rolfes don't want to use their control of the
Gate to interfere much back FirstSide, and their opponents _do_.
He isn't in a position at any time to let the US government know about the
Gate; trying to do so would simply get him killed, and make it more likely that
the hostile and ambitious Batyushkovs and Colletas would replace the cautious
and low-profile Rolfes.
He makes it clear that if he _does_ get an opportunity to get through the Gate,
he'll be off like a shot to report things to the authorities.
>Oh yes, and while I'm here might I add that the lesbian quotient was much too
low in this novel?
-- well, you can't satisfy everyone. I have a large lesbian fan-base and none
of them have complained so far... 8-).
Htn963
>Oh, yes and he makes the minor mistake of having one of the
>protagonists frying French Fries in olive oil. Olive oil's flash point
>is too low to do deep frying. You get either a whole lot of smoke or
>_really_ greasy French Fries.
Peanut oil is the oil of choice for deep frying for all serious chefs
because it has the highest "flash point".* And it'd presumably be more
available in the New World than olive oil.
*A simple yet terrifically tasty chicken dish is to rub lots of salt on
whole Cornish hens and deep fry them in peanut oil: they turn out so fragrant
and moist, mmm, mmm. I'd take them over oven-baked turkey on any
Thanksgiving.
--
Ht
|Any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind; and therefore
never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.
--John Donne, "Devotions Upon Emergent Occasions"|
Paul Austin
"JoatSimeon" wrote
I had a problem with Tom's patriotic hatred of the Thirty Families.
Yeah, yeah, they set themselves up as aristos in a new world, but
Tom's problems seemed to as much due to a sense of betrayal of the
US's interests as democratic passion. I couldn't see it. The US has
_no_ claim on Other Worlds and the Thirty engage in legitimate trade
with Back Home. Of course, they have a trade secret to protect and
they do so.
Do you plan any more of these?
--
Horses are oversized deer with the personalities of cats.
Paul F Austin
pfau...@bellsouth.net
Paul Austin
"David Bilek" wrote
>
>
> It came across to me as a guy who threw aside his loyalties to the
USA
> and the entire FirstSide world for, essentially, a hot piece of tail
> he was infatuated with. A hot piece of tail, I might add, who was
> engaged in the greatest criminal conspiracy in history and who had
> violently kidnapped Tom and his best friend from everything they
knew.
I have a problem with this. _What_ criminal conspiracy? The Thirty
Families operate outside the jurisdiction of USian or any other OTL
law. They treat the NTL locals a lot better than _our_ ancestors did.
They've emmigrated and are trading in (mostly) legal goods. The
_illegal_ goods are illegal only because in OTL, they're a rare and
depleteable resource. In the NTL, they're neither. They go to great
lengths to hide their trade secret but then so does Monsanto.
>
> Plus he bought into the whole "First Side is a dirty, polluted, ugly
> mess" bullshit. New Virginia was only able to maintain their little
> Reich-on-the-Bay because of the high technology they brought over
from
> this "cesspool". Now that the portal is closed lets see them build
> their computers and BlackHawk helicopters without getting their
hands
> dirty environmentally. Hah!
And they _pay_ for that high tech. Call it comparitive advantage.
Although I had a problem with cutting up C-130s, sliding the parts
through the Gate and reassembling them. You need an aircraft assembly
line not much different from the one that Boeing runs to do that,
complete with manufacturing tooling.
>
> How long do you think it'll be before they can build a moder
> microprocessor fab? Pffft. Sure, their world is pretty. But it's
> also bass-ackwards, and that's *why* it's so pretty.
If they want to, they could build a current generation fab in about 30
years. It would divert a lot of manpower from other projects though.
If Steve continues this world, he has an opportunity to explore how an
aristocracy copes with acculturating indig in roles requiring more
knowledge than the braceros they are using in Conquistador.
>
> Or, to put it another way, if one of those confederate agrarian
> bastards had asked *me* how I could live in such an ugly world, I'd
> pull out a picture of the Earth from orbit, ask him or her to
produce
> a similar picture taken from the other end of the portal, and then
> laugh in his or her face.
>
> Er, I'm getting a little carried away here.
That's a little over the top. The Thirty Families are no democrats but
they're not tyrants either. So they like an Ozzie & Harriet world. So
do a lot of people who hark after the Good Old Days. They don't have
the baggage that the civil rights struggles added to American culture
both for good and bad. They've solved that problem by immigration
control which certainly beats having underclassses and riots. You may
not like their choices but the choices are theirs to make.
--
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind
and won't change the subject"
-------------------------------------
Paul F Austin
pfau...@bellsouth.net
Paul Austin
"David Bilek" wrote
>
> I don't think it's the strongest thing Steve has ever written; As I
> posted initially, I think he got carried away with certain elements
of
> style involving repetitive descriptions of the landscape. I skimmed
a
> lot of that. But the story was interesting and the characters felt
> real even if I did want to occasionally beat the main character (a
> nice guy) with a two by four.
I guess YMMV. I enjoyed the descriptive passages. It put me in mind of
John Daley's "A Tapestry of Magic" which has some of the lushest
landscape descriptions I've seen outside of Maxfield Parish. I just
wish the action elements weren't so compressed. Conquistador could
either have been a lot shorter or a lot longer. I really enjoyed it.
--
Conscience, that quiet voice that says "Someone may be watching"
Paul F Austin
pfau...@bellsouth.net
Peter Bruells
> I have a problem with this. _What_ criminal conspiracy? The Thirty
> Families operate outside the jurisdiction of USian or any other OTL
> law. They treat the NTL locals a lot better than _our_ ancestors
> did.
> They've emmigrated and are trading in (mostly) legal goods. The
> _illegal_ goods are illegal only because in OTL, they're a rare and
> depleteable resource. In the NTL, they're neither. They go to great
> lengths to hide their trade secret but then so does Monsanto.
They smuggle prohibited good into the USA, don't they? Sounds
criminal to me.
Holly E. Ordway
$hh5....@fe07.atl2.webusenet.com:
> Oh, yes and he makes the minor mistake of having one of the
> protagonists frying French Fries in olive oil. Olive oil's flash point
> is too low to do deep frying. You get either a whole lot of smoke or
> _really_ greasy French Fries.
Nope, you can do it. In Spain (land of inexpensive, good-quality olive
oil) it's the normal way to make french fries. I know this first-hand,
from many, many meals in Spain made by my mother-in-law. With my own
eyes I have seen the oil go from the bottle labeled "olive oil" (well,
"aceite de oliva") straight into the deep fryer, and the potatoes
getting fried there. And the fries come out great: not greasy at all.
Maybe you're thinking of extra-virgin olive oil (the green stuff)? That
you really can't fry anything in, but other pressings of olive oil you
demonstrably can.
--Holly
Pete McCutchen
wrote:
>The story was interesting, but I hated the characters. I would have
>gladly put a slug or two into Tom.
Um, I haven't read _Conquistador_ (though it's on my "to read" pile),
but is that unusual for Stirling? I mean, it's not as if the Draka
books have that many characters who make you feel all warm & fuzzy.
--
Pete McCutchen
Steven H Silver
forth into the ether:
>For comparison's sake, here's what the professional reviewers (except for
>Locus, whose review I don't have online yet) thought:
>Steven Silver
>SFrevu
nitpick: SF Site, not SFrevu.
--
--
Steven H Silver
editor, Wondrous Beginnings, DAW 1/03
http://www.sfsite.com/~silverag/wondrous.html
editor, Magical Beginnings, DAW 2/03
http://www.sfsite.com/~silverag/magical.html
editor, Horrible Beginnings, DAW 3/03
http://www.sfsite.com/~silverag/horrible.html
Chair, Windycon XXX, Nov 7-9, 2003, http://www.windycon.org
Karl M Syring
Hmm, when it is labeled "olive oil" it must not be olive oil.
The stuff tends to spout very hot drops when subject to strong heat.
SAFETY ADVICE: Always wear lab goggles when trying that stunt.
Keep fire extinguisher within reach.
Karl M. Syring
Dan Swartzendruber
dbi...@attbi.com says...
> Given a choice I'd probably prefer a sequel to _Lancers_ or even a
I haven't yet read Conquistadors, but I did just read PL in paperback,
and my first reaction when done was: "i liked that". the second was:
"any chance of a followup?"
Holly E. Ordway
7529.news.dfncis.de:
> Hmm, when it is labeled "olive oil" it must not be olive oil.
I know what olive oil looks like and tastes like; I use it all the time
in cooking. Trust me, the olive oil I've seen used to deep-fry things,
is REALLY HONESTLY genuine olive oil, not some other oil labeled (for
some mysterious reason) as olive oil.
Yes, it is possible to deep-fry potatoes in OLIVE OIL quite nicely. I
wouldn't want to do it in an open pot on the stove, but in a proper
deep-fryer with a lid (*), sure. I would fry my own french fries in
olive oil here in the U.S. if olive oil were cheaper here.
I could understand people doubting if I'd just "heard of" this, but
really, I've seen it with my own eyes and tasted the results.
(*) Proper deep fryers seem uncommon in the U.S. I finally did mail-
order a nice proper one with a deep basin, a good basket, and accurate
temperature controls (A brand named Euro-something, which I think is
telling), but all the ones in the stores are little crappy flimsy things
that don't heat up properly.
--Holly
Peter D. Tillman
David Bilek <dbi...@attbi.com> wrote:
>
> Excluding one problem I had with the book, I'd rate _Conquistador_ as
> about on a level with _The Peshawar Lancers_. If you're a fan of
> Steve's previous work you definitely want to pick this one up.
>
YMMV. I didn't care for Lancers. I thought Conquistador was right up
there with Stirling's best.
>
> I don't think it's the strongest thing Steve has ever written; As I
> posted initially, I think he got carried away with certain elements of
> style involving repetitive descriptions of the landscape. I skimmed a
> lot of that. But the story was interesting and the characters felt
> real even if I did want to occasionally beat the main character (a
> nice guy) with a two by four.
>
Heh. I really liked the northern California pastorales -- very nicely
done, almost poetic. But then, I really like the Bay Area landscapes,
and have fantasized about how they would look with a few million less
people... (Actually, I'd prefer Southern CA with a few tens of million
less people. Not as lush [!], but the weather's much better.)
Let's see, there was a long and interesting thread re Conquistador here
AWB: [***caution -- SPOILERS!***]:
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=820aa0b0.0209161233.9194e09%40postin
g.google.com [watch the wrap!]
... with the following, inter alia, from SMS:
"I've had CONQUISTADOR bubbling at the back of my mind for a long time;
since the early 80's, in fact.
It's a different book than it would have been if I'd written it then, of
course; I like to think my technique has improved, and I've mellowed out
a bit.
On the other hand, it's also not quite the same book that I would have
written if the idea for it had come to me recently. Large chunks have
been 'around' since its genesis.
That made writing it an interesting experience; sort of like a
collaboration with myself."
.
.
.
[Conquistador] "right now it's a standalone, although there's potential
for sequels.
I'm planning on a couple of alternate-history space-and-planet operas
next, though, involving alien-induced differences in the solar system
which only become known on earth in the early 1960's."
-- and I have a review forthcoming at SF Site, which I'll try to
remember to post here once they run it.
Cheers -- Pete Tillman
Book Reviews: http://www.silcom.com/~manatee/reviewer.html#tillman
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/cm/member-reviews/-/A3GHSD9VY8XS4Q/
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/iplus/nonfiction/index.htm#reviews
http://www.sfsite.com/revwho.htm
Brandon Ray
Peter Bruells wrote:
Smuggling doesn't mostly trip my outrage triggers, when it comes to
lawbreaking. Almost always, the item being smuggled is embargoed or has
a high tariff against it to protect some moneyed interest within the
country enforcing the embargo or tariff. The only exception I can think
of is illegal drugs, and since I think the whole War on Some Drugs is a
fetid load of dingos kidneys, I can't even get very excited about that.
--
In this house we obey the laws of thermodynamics! -- Homer Simpson
Peter Bruells
> Peter Bruells wrote:
>> They smuggle prohibited good into the USA, don't they? Sounds
>> criminal to me.
> Smuggling doesn't mostly trip my outrage triggers, when it comes to
> lawbreaking. Almost always, the item being smuggled is embargoed or
> has a high tariff against it to protect some moneyed interest within
> the country enforcing the embargo or tariff.
> The only exception I can think of is illegal drugs, and since I
> think the whole War on Some Drugs is a fetid load of dingos kidneys,
> I can't even get very excited about that.
Well, there's protected species and protection from foreign am
possibly harmful biologicals. *I* don't want a new kind of potato
eating bug in my country. An uncontrolled doorway to an alien (if
related) biosphere is a BAD idea in my eye and a possible danger to
the nation involved.
Karl M Syring
> Karl M Syring <syr...@email.com> wrote in news:b3qfuo$1pagah$1@ID-
> 7529.news.dfncis.de:
>
>> Hmm, when it is labeled "olive oil" it must not be olive oil.
>
> I know what olive oil looks like and tastes like; I use it all the time
> in cooking. Trust me, the olive oil I've seen used to deep-fry things,
> is REALLY HONESTLY genuine olive oil, not some other oil labeled (for
> some mysterious reason) as olive oil.
>
> Yes, it is possible to deep-fry potatoes in OLIVE OIL quite nicely. I
> wouldn't want to do it in an open pot on the stove, but in a proper
> deep-fryer with a lid (*), sure. I would fry my own french fries in
> olive oil here in the U.S. if olive oil were cheaper here.
>
> I could understand people doubting if I'd just "heard of" this, but
> really, I've seen it with my own eyes and tasted the results.
There may be kinds of olive oil that are industrially hardened
by hydrogenation, but I would not call this olive oil anymore.
With respect to raw olive oil, I once managed myself to produce
a nice fireball in an overheated pan. This made me cautious.
Karl M. Syring
Martin Hardgrave
<htn...@cs.com> writes
>*A simple yet terrifically tasty chicken dish is to rub lots of salt on
>whole Cornish hens
how whole?
>and deep fry them in peanut oil: they turn out so fragrant
>and moist, mmm, mmm. I'd take them over oven-baked turkey on any
>Thanksgiving.
--
Martin Hardgrave
David Bilek
They commit all kinds of Enronesque fraud with their income reporting,
but mostly I consider keeping the Gate secret to be a crime against
humanity.
-David
Paul Austin
"David Bilek" <dbi...@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:vct16v4bkvn9hh0pa...@4ax.com...
They "fraudulently" report income (from gold and diamond sales forex)
that originate outside USian jurisdiction. I can't see it. They are
paying taxes on income generated _outside_ any possible US tax reach.
That's quite the reverse of what Enron did.
As far as the endangered species trade, Steve clearly has badies doing
that. In any case, the beasts being traded aren't endangered _there_.
As far as the Gate secret is concerned, in what way and by what legal
theory does "humanity" have a right to it?
Paul Austin
"Holly E. Ordway" wrote
> "Paul Austin" wrote
>
> > Oh, yes and he makes the minor mistake of having one of the
> > protagonists frying French Fries in olive oil. Olive oil's flash
point
> > is too low to do deep frying. You get either a whole lot of smoke
or
> > _really_ greasy French Fries.
>
> Nope, you can do it. In Spain (land of inexpensive, good-quality
olive
> oil) it's the normal way to make french fries. I know this
first-hand,
> from many, many meals in Spain made by my mother-in-law. With my own
> eyes I have seen the oil go from the bottle labeled "olive oil"
(well,
> "aceite de oliva") straight into the deep fryer, and the potatoes
> getting fried there. And the fries come out great: not greasy at
all.
>
> Maybe you're thinking of extra-virgin olive oil (the green stuff)?
That
> you really can't fry anything in, but other pressings of olive oil
you
> demonstrably can.
That's interesting. It never occured to me that different pressings
have different smoke points. Certainly the extra-virgin oil I'm used
to smokes long before it's hot enough for deep frying.
--
"For the Foe was armed with Toasting Forks
and Cruel Carving Knives"
Paul F Austin
pfau...@bellsouth.net
David Bilek
>"David Bilek" <dbi...@attbi.com> wrote in message
>news:vct16v4bkvn9hh0pa...@4ax.com...
>>
>reporting,
>> but mostly I consider keeping the Gate secret to be a crime against
>> humanity.
>
>They "fraudulently" report income (from gold and diamond sales forex)
>that originate outside USian jurisdiction. I can't see it. They are
>paying taxes on income generated _outside_ any possible US tax reach.
>That's quite the reverse of what Enron did.
>
>As far as the endangered species trade, Steve clearly has badies doing
>that. In any case, the beasts being traded aren't endangered _there_.
>
>As far as the Gate secret is concerned, in what way and by what legal
>theory does "humanity" have a right to it?
Legal theory is not the end all and be all of morality. It's a crime
against humanity because it denies the potential of other timelines to
all but a bunch of pseudo-confederates, ex-Nazi's, eastern bloc
gangsters, and proto-Draka.
-David
Paul Austin
"David Bilek" wrote
> "Paul Austin" wrote:
> >"David Bilek" wrote
> >>
> >> They commit all kinds of Enronesque fraud with their income
> >reporting,
> >> but mostly I consider keeping the Gate secret to be a crime
against
> >> humanity.
> >
> >As far as the Gate secret is concerned, in what way and by what
legal
> >theory does "humanity" have a right to it?
>
> Legal theory is not the end all and be all of morality. It's a
crime
> against humanity because it denies the potential of other timelines
to
> all but a bunch of pseudo-confederates, ex-Nazi's, eastern bloc
> gangsters, and proto-Draka.
So a crime against humanity is "I don't like you and you have a
secret"? In any case, I see no evidence of proto-Draka-hood.
William December Starr
"Paul Austin" <pfau...@bellsouth.net> said:
> I guess YMMV. I enjoyed the descriptive passages. It put me in mind
> of John Daley's "A Tapestry of Magic" which has some of the lushest
> landscape descriptions I've seen outside of Maxfield Parish.
I think you mean Brian Daley's _A Tapestry of Magics_.
-- William December Starr <wds...@panix.com>
Nancy Lebovitz
Paul Austin <pfau...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>I guess YMMV. I enjoyed the descriptive passages. It put me in mind of
>John Daley's "A Tapestry of Magic" which has some of the lushest
>landscape descriptions I've seen outside of Maxfield Parish. I just
>wish the action elements weren't so compressed. Conquistador could
>either have been a lot shorter or a lot longer. I really enjoyed it.
I can't remember whether the landscape descriptions are lush, but if
you enjoy lots and lots of plants in your sf, I recommend Alan Dean
Foster's _Midworld_ and _Mid-Flinx_.
--
Nancy Lebovitz na...@netaxs.com www.nancybuttons.com
Now, with bumper stickers
Using your turn signal is not "giving information to the enemy"
Paul Austin
"William December Starr" wrote
> "Paul Austin" said:
>
> > I guess YMMV. I enjoyed the descriptive passages. It put me in
mind
> > of John Daley's "A Tapestry of Magic" which has some of the
lushest
> > landscape descriptions I've seen outside of Maxfield Parish.
>
> I think you mean Brian Daley's _A Tapestry of Magics_.
You're right. Thank you.
Paul Austin
"Nancy Lebovitz" wrote
> Paul Austin wrote:
> >
> >I guess YMMV. I enjoyed the descriptive passages. It put me in mind
of
> >John Daley's "A Tapestry of Magic" which has some of the lushest
> >landscape descriptions I've seen outside of Maxfield Parish. I just
> >wish the action elements weren't so compressed. Conquistador could
> >either have been a lot shorter or a lot longer. I really enjoyed
it.
>
> I can't remember whether the landscape descriptions are lush, but if
> you enjoy lots and lots of plants in your sf, I recommend Alan Dean
> Foster's _Midworld_ and _Mid-Flinx_.
And for vegitable nightmares, there's Brian Aldis's Long Afternoon of
Earth.
JoatSimeon
>I guess YMMV. I enjoyed the descriptive passages.
-- yup. Some people like description; some don't. Myself, I always enjoyed
it, when done well.
JoatSimeon
>From: "Paul Austin" pfau...@bellsouth.net
>Do you plan any more of these?
-- possibly, but not right away. Right now I'm working on a quasi-sequel to
the "Island" stories, and working up proposals for another AH and a Big Fat
Fantasy. Haven't done any fantasy in a while, and I'd like to keep my hand in.
JoatSimeon
-- oops, sorry, Steve; my bad. Will correct in future postings!
David Bilek
Ever thought of trying a traditional space opera? I think your
writing style would lend itself to that sub-genre fairly readily.
-David
JoatSimeon
>Ever thought of trying a traditional space opera? I think your writing style
would lend itself to that sub-genre fairly readily.
-- try telling the publishers that. I've just had two reject an outline for a
space-opera AH series, because it was "too much like traditional science
fiction", which they are convinced can't sell.
Gevalt.
Wild Bill
wrote:
>"Paul Austin" <pfau...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
Well, to quote Adrienne's paraphrase of The Founder:
"Anyone who doesn't like it is free to find his own alternate universe
and run it to suit himself."
---
Wild Bill
Pete McCutchen
Doesn't you, uh, former publisher sell quite a bit of space opera?
--
Pete McCutchen
Louann Miller
Anything else to be hoped for in the "Pershawar Lancers" universe?
Yes, I found the Galveston novella.
Louann
Nancy Lebovitz
What do they seem to mean by "traditional science fiction"?
Per C. Jorgensen
news:v4346v0k9jukp2fqk...@4ax.com...
> Anything else to be hoped for in the "Pershawar Lancers" universe?
> Yes, I found the Galveston novella.
I've placed it on the to be looked up list after finishing _The Peshawar
Lancers_ recently. I've always liked alternate history, but have
had somewhat of an overdose the last few years. PL, however,
was one of the most enjoyable reads in the subgenre I've
had for a long time. It had a good balance between contrafactual
speculation and authorial self-indulgence.
-- PCJ
David Dyer-Bennet
If they get seriously extensive, I'm actually likely to skip them.
Unless they're *really* well done, sometimes.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, dd...@dd-b.net / http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/
John Dyer-Bennet 1915-2002 Memorial Site http://john.dyer-bennet.net
Dragaera mailing lists, see http://dragaera.info
JoatSimeon
>Anything else to be hoped for in the "Pershawar Lancers" universe?
>Yes, I found the Galveston novella.
-- same-same, eventually but not soon.
I seem to be swimming against the tide -- everyone else writes endless series,
while I go from series to stand-alones... 8-).
JoatSimeon
>What do they seem to mean by "traditional science fiction"?
-- spaceships and alien planets.
Hey, don't ask me to defend it!
William December Starr
na...@unix1.netaxs.com (Nancy Lebovitz) said:
>> -- try telling the publishers that. I've just had two reject an
>> outline for a space-opera AH series, because it was "too much like
>> traditional science fiction", which they are convinced can't sell.
>
> ????
>
> What do they seem to mean by "traditional science fiction"?
"Science fiction that we're convinced can't sell," probably.
Nancy Lebovitz
replying to. It would make the conversation much easier to follow.
Now that you mention it, while there's some spaceship and alien planet
science fiction coming out, there does seem to be less than in previous
years.
I suppose we'l have to wait for the next ss & ap bestseller to convince
the publishers that there's a new fad for them to follow.