Thoughts on the Uplift Storm Trilogy
Dennis C Hwang
I just finished HEAVEN'S GATE, the last book in David Brin's Uplift Storm
trilogy...
<insert lots of spoiler space>
An interesting conclusion to the original premise, which wraps up most of
the "big" questions and yet still manages to leave some of the more
personal-level issues unresolved. In the end, I was left with mixed
emotions--closure on some levels, frustration on others.
* We do finally learn why the *Streaker*'s discovery in the Shallow
Cluster got the Galactics' collective undies in a bunch, and the reason
wasn't particularly trite or predictable; nor did it come straight out of
left field without any kind of setup. At the core, it was simple enough
that one might have deduced it only from the background information
present in STARTIDE RISING: if advanced species eventually Transcend, why
should the Progenitors' fleet be found...unless the Progenitors themselves
didn't Transcend.
* The voyage of the *Streaker* is finally over, and we can breathe a sigh
of relief for the crew we've followed over the years. And yet, so few
came home. Brin certainly doesn't pull any punches with regards to his
characters, and, unlike the ending of THE UPLIFT WAR, we aren't given more
than a hint of a joyous homecoming. (See Character Status list, below.)
* It's interesting to note how the atmosphere of the Uplift universe has
evolved over the years. STARTIDE RISING and THE UPLIFT WAR both seemed
much more optimistic; *Streaker* escapes, the crew of the skiff have high
hopes that they'll eventually make it, Earthclan actually manages to form
alliances with the Thennanin and Gubru. There's _hope_ at the end of
these books. With the current trilogy, the mood has changed; it's darker,
more contemplative. Desperation is the watchword over the course of the
three books; we're finally given a sense of the severity of the Siege of
Terra, the fates of Calafia, the Canaan colonies, and Horst. (Although I
noticed that Garth was mentioned only in passing.) Which, of course,
pales alongside the galactic-scale calamities going on.
* Brin expands on the various levels of hyperspace, which was interesting,
but didn't quite work for me. E-space was a fun notion, but I found it a
little over-the-top in terms of gratuitous weirdness. It was nice to see
some expansion on the hydrogen-breathers (and the other orders of life).
* Dammit, we still don't know what happened to Tom Orley, Creideiki, and
the others! There are some hints (in Gillian's conversation with the
Transcendant, and the apparition that appears to Lark and Ling on their
way out of the galactic cluster), but I wish we'd found out more.
* There are still opportunities for continuing the story (aside from the
one above :( ) but I'm not sure if Brin plans to go any further. At the
end of his Afterword, he says, "Hang on, there's more to come" or some
such, but I don't know if he's just referring to the little epilogue-story
with Alvin.
Just out of interest's sake, I ran through the final(?) status of the main
characters to whom we were introduced back in STARTIDE RISING.
Creideiki -- still missing
Toshio -- still missing (not mentioned)
Keepiru -- still missing
Dennie -- still missing (not mentioned)
Dr. Dart -- still missing
Hikahi -- still missing
Tom Orley -- still missing
Makanee -- left on Jijo
Lucky Kaa -- returned to Jijo
Tsh't -- dead
Emerson -- made it home (injured)
Suessi -- made it home (altered)
Gillian -- made it home
Brookida -- ???
There are probably others I'm forgetting. Not a great homecoming rate,
overall.
Anyway, more thoughts later...
--
--Dennis
*************************************************************
* dch...@itsa.ucsf.edu * xenopathologist at large! *
*************************************************************
Aaron Bergman
Dennis C Hwang (dch...@itsa.ucsf.edu) wrote:
: I just finished HEAVEN'S GATE, the last book in David Brin's Uplift Storm
: trilogy...
:
: <insert lots of spoiler space>
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: * Dammit, we still don't know what happened to Tom Orley, Creideiki, and
: the others! There are some hints (in Gillian's conversation with the
: Transcendant, and the apparition that appears to Lark and Ling on their
: way out of the galactic cluster), but I wish we'd found out more.
:
: * There are still opportunities for continuing the story (aside from the
: one above :( ) but I'm not sure if Brin plans to go any further. At the
: end of his Afterword, he says, "Hang on, there's more to come" or some
: such, but I don't know if he's just referring to the little epilogue-story
: with Alvin.
I believe that Brin has said on some webpage or another that the
full story won't be told until he writes the book about the
second ship leaving Kithrup.
Aaron
Ethan A Merritt
In article <6la46i$19...@itssrv1.ucsf.edu>,
Dennis C Hwang <dch...@itsa.ucsf.edu> wrote:
>I just finished HEAVEN'S GATE, the last book in David Brin's Uplift Storm
>trilogy...
>
><insert lots of spoiler space>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Cluster got the Galactics' collective undies in a bunch, and the reason
>wasn't particularly trite or predictable; nor did it come straight out of
>left field without any kind of setup. At the core, it was simple enough
>that one might have deduced it only from the background information
>present in STARTIDE RISING: if advanced species eventually Transcend, why
>should the Progenitors' fleet be found...unless the Progenitors themselves
>didn't Transcend.
No, there's more to it than that. The question becomes "Is there more
than one path to transcendence?", or more paranoic: "Is the path to
transcendence we know of the true path?" What do you take Sara's
obsession with the Buyur to be? - I figure her theory is that the
Buyur have arranged for the transcendence of galaxy 4 as a long term
project. Once it was largely empty (did they engineer that?) they
"invited" in the crucial mixture of participants, stirred and seasoned
the brew, swatted a few last minute interlopers, and then hunkered
down for the long haul to transcendence.
>* It's interesting to note how the atmosphere of the Uplift universe has
>evolved over the years. STARTIDE RISING and THE UPLIFT WAR both seemed
>much more optimistic; *Streaker* escapes, the crew of the skiff have high
>hopes that they'll eventually make it, Earthclan actually manages to form
>alliances with the Thennanin and Gubru.
Say what? I don't recall the Gubru ever coming over!
>* Brin expands on the various levels of hyperspace, which was interesting,
>but didn't quite work for me. E-space was a fun notion, but I found it a
>little over-the-top in terms of gratuitous weirdness. It was nice to see
>some expansion on the hydrogen-breathers (and the other orders of life).
I think E_space was put in in order to expound on memetic life, though
the Streaker's hull defense at the end was more effective as an example.
>Creideiki -- still missing
yeah, but he was appearing psychically even in the previous
volume.
>Dr. Dart -- still missing
Dart appears in the projected holograms from the transcendents,
along with Creideiki. That might put them in the same class
of "psychically present". But then again Jacob Demwa appeared
to, and I don't see how he could be in the same class.
>Tom Orley -- still missing
see above comments on Creideiki and Dart
>Brookida -- ???
left on JiJo to oversee the aboriginals from Kithrup
What I'd like to know is just what sort of selection was going on at
the end near the white dwarf... Some incoming transcendent-wannabees
(all of whom had been cleared by the Harrower) were just being tossed
onto the bonfire; others were passed through to ???, and some for all
I could tell were transcending on the spot by joining the smoke-signal
faction. (there, I hope that's sufficiently cryptic :-)
Ethan A Merritt
mer...@u.washington.edu
ha.t....@boeing.com
In article <6la46i$19...@itssrv1.ucsf.edu>,
dch...@itsa.ucsf.edu (Dennis C Hwang) wrote:
>
> I just finished HEAVEN'S GATE, the last book in David Brin's Uplift Storm
> trilogy...
>
> <insert lots of spoiler space>
>
> the "big" questions and yet still manages to leave some of the more
> personal-level issues unresolved. In the end, I was left with mixed
> emotions--closure on some levels, frustration on others.
>
Yes! At the end of the book, I was so frustrated with Brin that I threw
the book onto the floor and swore that I would never, ever buy another
book from Brin in hardback. Of course, as a female, I reserve the right
to change my mind if he ever comes out with another Uplift book!
What is it with Brin and his latest books? Beginning with _Earth_
and continuing to this series, his endings have sucked. In _Earth_,
a villian comes onto the scene, totally unexpectedly and makes no
sense as to why the ending events occur. In _Glory Season_, nothing
changes at the end of the book so it sort of made the whole book
pointless IMO. I mean, I don't want to see the same situation at
the beginning of the book that I see at the end. Even the people seem
the same.
As for _Heaven's Reach_, nothing is settled, not even the Siege of Earth,
if what the NISS machine suggested is true. There is no real closure.
At the end, there are all these events occurring which Brin does not
finish. I would have felt much better about this book if the series was
a tetralogy rather than a trilogy.
GAAAHHHH!!!! I want a closure! I want a definite ending!
>
> Just out of interest's sake, I ran through the final(?) status of the main
> characters to whom we were introduced back in STARTIDE RISING.
>
> Creideiki -- still missing
> Toshio -- still missing (not mentioned)
> Keepiru -- still missing
> Dennie -- still missing (not mentioned)
> Dr. Dart -- still missing
I thought that Dennie and Dr. Dart died on that island when the massive
sea-quake hit. Is there some reason that you think they survived?
[snip]
--
Ha
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
Todd D. Ellner
In article <6lh59h$b89$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, <ha.t....@boeing.com> wrote:
>What is it with Brin and his latest books?
>In _Glory Season_, nothing
>changes at the end of the book so it sort of made the whole book
>pointless IMO. I mean, I don't want to see the same situation at
>the beginning of the book that I see at the end. Even the people seem
>the same.
I think you are missing a couple of points with regards to "Glory Season".
o The situation was radically different at the end of the book. The planet
was about to be invaded by a force against which the normal tools (i.e.
"shoot them") don't work.
o There had been a marked increase in vars in the last couple generations.
Somehow, somewhere, a cue was sent which said "Start recombining. Something
wierd is about to happen".
o Men were, once again, allowed to fly. Our heroine was tested for something
which seemed suspiciously like "spaceship crew". For a planet as conservative
as that one this is an enormous change.
o Change hapens very very slowly on the world. It was designed that way by
the Founders.
o The book may have failed as an adventure story (although I found it exciting)
but it was a superb thought experiment into the social effects of biological
changes to humanity.
--
Todd Ellner | The thankful receiver bears a plentiful harvest.
tel...@cs.pdx.edu | --William Blake "The Marriage of Heaven and Hell"
(503)493-4431 |
lam...@my-dejanews.com
In article <6la46i$19...@itssrv1.ucsf.edu>,
dch...@itsa.ucsf.edu (Dennis C Hwang) wrote:
>
> I just finished HEAVEN'S GATE, the last book in David Brin's Uplift Storm
> trilogy...
>
> <insert lots of spoiler space>
[Snip]
> * Dammit, we still don't know what happened to Tom Orley, Creideiki, and
> the others! There are some hints (in Gillian's conversation with the
> Transcendant, and the apparition that appears to Lark and Ling on their
> way out of the galactic cluster), but I wish we'd found out more.
Another hint is the pair of ships the machine with Rety and Dwer is following
in E space. The leader is about the right size for the skiff, and I find it
likely that a combination of 'take us home' and 'take us to the most
important poeple around' would be take us to the most important Earth poeple
around, and that this might be the skiff.
DougL
towo...@concentric.net
Dennis C Hwang <dch...@itsa.ucsf.edu> might have said:
>I just finished HEAVEN'S GATE, the last book in David Brin's Uplift Storm
>trilogy...
><insert lots of spoiler space>
>Toshio -- still missing (not mentioned)
Not quite true. He was mentioned in passing in either the first or second
chapter with Gillian as the "narrator". At least I'm fairly sure it was
one of those chapters. Definetly with Gillian, tho.
--
Jason
http://www.cris.com/~towonder/
Sailor Moon V at http://www.cris.com/~towonder/fanfic.shtml
Dennis C Hwang
In article <6lhtdr$fjf$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, <lam...@my-dejanews.com> wrote:
>In article <6la46i$19...@itssrv1.ucsf.edu>,
> dch...@itsa.ucsf.edu (Dennis C Hwang) wrote:
>>
>> trilogy...
>>
>> <insert lots of spoiler space>
>> * Dammit, we still don't know what happened to Tom Orley, Creideiki, and
>> the others! There are some hints (in Gillian's conversation with the
>> Transcendant, and the apparition that appears to Lark and Ling on their
>> way out of the galactic cluster), but I wish we'd found out more.
>
>Another hint is the pair of ships the machine with Rety and Dwer is following
>in E space. The leader is about the right size for the skiff, and I find it
>likely that a combination of 'take us home' and 'take us to the most
>important poeple around' would be take us to the most important Earth poeple
>around, and that this might be the skiff.
Hmmm. That's a good point! Truth to tell, I was trying to figure out
what that pair of ships might have been, and I didn't know if the fact
that one of them had passed "a year ago" was supposed to be for real, or
some kind of time distortion pecular to E-space...
Dennis C Hwang
In article <6lij7u$j...@examiner.concentric.net>,
>>trilogy...
>
>><insert lots of spoiler space>
>
>
>Not quite true. He was mentioned in passing in either the first or second
>chapter with Gillian as the "narrator". At least I'm fairly sure it was
>one of those chapters. Definetly with Gillian, tho.
Mmmmm, are you sure? I distinctly remember him having been picked up by
the skiff at the end of STARTIDE RISING, so that would put him with
Dennie, Charles Dart, and Tom Orley (wherever the heck they are). In
fact, I don't remember anyone mentioning him (or Dennie, for that matter)
at all in the recent trilogy, even though practically everyone else (even
Ignacio Metz) got a nod.
towo...@concentric.net
Dennis C Hwang <dch...@itsa.ucsf.edu> might have said:
>Mmmmm, are you sure? I distinctly remember him having been picked up by
>the skiff at the end of STARTIDE RISING, so that would put him with
>Dennie, Charles Dart, and Tom Orley (wherever the heck they are). In
>fact, I don't remember anyone mentioning him (or Dennie, for that matter)
>at all in the recent trilogy, even though practically everyone else (even
>Ignacio Metz) got a nod.
He wasn't on Streaker. It was a reference along the lines of "she missed
Tom, and the others left behind on Kithrup, like Toshio". Just a
throwaway reference. I'd go get my book and check, but if I did that I'd
be far too tempted to fall into bed. 8)
Chad R Orzel
{_Heaven's Reach_}
>> An interesting conclusion to the original premise, which wraps up most of
>> the "big" questions and yet still manages to leave some of the more
>> personal-level issues unresolved. In the end, I was left with mixed
>> emotions--closure on some levels, frustration on others.
>>
>
>Yes! At the end of the book, I was so frustrated with Brin that I threw
>the book onto the floor and swore that I would never, ever buy another
>book from Brin in hardback. Of course, as a female, I reserve the right
>to change my mind if he ever comes out with another Uplift book!
>
>What is it with Brin and his latest books? Beginning with _Earth_
>and continuing to this series, his endings have sucked.
Huh?
I didn't think much of _Earth_ in many respects, but this series has at
least as solid an ending as anything else he's written.
I mean, granted, _Brightness Reef_ and _Infinity's Shore_ didn't have
much in the way of closure, but you might as well say "I just finished
_The Fellowship of the Ring,_ and, man, the ending _sucked._ He left
_everything_ hanging!"
I mean,
SPOILERS
>As for _Heaven's Reach_, nothing is settled, not even the Siege of Earth,
>if what the NISS machine suggested is true.
Lessee:
They know why Herbie freaked the Galactics out so badly.
They know what a Time of Changes is, now, and they're past the worst of
it.
The Seige of Earth has been lifted, at least for now, allowing time to
recover, resupply, and regroup.
_Streaker_ and her findings (albeit not Herbie) have made it back to
Earth, and they can hand over the data to the Library (for example), and
hopefully obtain some small relief from the present intergalactic jihad.
I don't think that's half bad.
Yeah, there are threads left hanging (the odd Sacrifice of Earth
religion, what's going on on Jijo, what were the Buyur up to, what's
going to happen to the mission to the far edge of the Universe), but then
he didn't answer the Missing Mass question, either, and it's hard to
fault him for that.
On the whole, I think I would've been more irritated had he _tried_ to
tie everything up neatly. In a story this complex, and on a scale this
large, there _have_ to be loose threads left hanging- life in the Fi^H^H
Four Galaxies doesn't stop at the last page, after all, and it would be
wrong to imply that all stories (or even all _interesting_ stories) ended
with _Streaker_'s return and a hearty "Y'all live happily ever after now,
y'hear?"
Yeah, we don't know what happened to the gang in the lifeboat, but then I
don't think that "What happened to Tom Orley?" was really the Big
Question left hanging at the end of _Startide Rising._ The Big Question
was "What the Hell did they find in the Shallow Cluster, and why is it
such a big deal?" And we've got an answer to that, now.
The "What happened to Tom and Creideiki and Toshio and Dennie and Keepiru
and everybody else?" plot will be filled in in due time. And there are
some big questions left there- mostly to do with Creideiki's experiences
in the Whale Dream (for lack of a better word for it). But the biggest of
the Big Questions has now been wrapped up.
And that's closure enough for me to let Brin write whatever he wants for
a few years.
Later,
OilCan
Chris Mullins
Chad R Orzel wrote in message <6lm5v1$j...@rac1.wam.umd.edu>...
:And that's closure enough for me to let Brin write whatever he wants for
:a few years.
Brin's next book to come out, will be, I believe, _Third Foundation_ which
is supposed to be about the robots working behind the scene in both the
First and Second Foundation.
(Spoilers for _Foundation's Fear_ and _Foundation and Chaos_)
~
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I was less than impressed with _Foundation's Fear_, especially the endless
ramblings of Joan and Voltaire. During the course of this book, it seemed
that Hari Seldon failed to develop a true personality. His robot wife was
"more alive" to me than was the Hari. R. Daneel seemed never seemed to show
the skills and abilities that a being of his age would, I feel, have.
Overall, I actually disliked this book.
I found the second book, _Foundation and Chaos_ to be much better. Aside
from hating the scenes with Voltaire and Joan (ICK!) the book moved along
fairly well. The display of Robotic factions, and the still "functioning"
remains of Giskgard was interesting -- I just wish these factions were more
in the forefront of the story. I would love to see how opposing groups of
Robots would fight with each other through the millennia. The argument that
Daneel won simply because he wouldn't allow the robots to be repaired seems
very lame -- These Robots are smart creatures with very long life spans and
the ability to influence humans. Unless Daneel added a 4th law that said
"Only a specialized Repair Robot can repair a Robot" it doesn't make sense
to think this would even be an issue.
The other piece that really bugged me was the Brain Fever bit. It's implied
that this is a disease that was manufactured with the sole purpose of
keeping the vast majority of humanity from ever having an above average IQ.
The logic of this, and the blind acceptance that this is "OK" is appalling.
I've got high hopes for Brin's book, as I usually like what he says, even if
I hate his current writing style (changing Point-Of-View EVERY SINGLE TIME
there is a climax is a miserable style!) and his plots are generally very
good. I assume he's got some good editors, as this has to be approved by the
Asimov foundation, so this should turn out to be an excellent book.
CLM
Dorothy J Heydt
In article <6lmo4s$m8q$1...@nnrp1.ni.net>,
Chris Mullins <cmul...@connsys.com> wrote:
>
>Brin's next book to come out, will be, I believe, _Third Foundation_ which
>is supposed to be about the robots working behind the scene in both the
>First and Second Foundation.
Oh, bloody hell. We have to wait so long between Uplift books,
now we have to wait even longer while Brin wastes his time with the
latest round of Foundationsweepings? Say it ain't so!
Dorothy J. Heydt
Albany, California
djh...@kithrup.com
http://www.kithrup.com/~djheydt
_A Point of Honor_ is out....
Ha Nguyen
Chad R Orzel (oil...@wam.umd.edu) wrote:
: SPOILERS
:
: Lessee:
: And that's closure enough for me to let Brin write whatever he wants for
: a few years.
I guess I really wanted to know what happened to Tom and Creideiki and the
last scene with Ling and Creideiki got my curosity bump revving up,
and it wanted immediate satisfaction. I mean, how can Creideiki be
there and then not there? Has he Transcended? Brin seems to be
pointing out that Creideiki chose the Shallow Cluster for some mysterious
reason.
After time and reading everyone's review of the book, I'm no longer
so frustrated with the book. But I WANT THE NEXT BOOK SOON!
You must have more patience with mysteries than I do if you can
wait years for the next book.
--
Ha
Michael Kozlowski
In article <EuCyv...@kithrup.com>,
Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>Chris Mullins <cmul...@connsys.com> wrote:
>>
>>Brin's next book to come out, will be, I believe, _Third Foundation_ which
>>is supposed to be about the robots working behind the scene in both the
>>First and Second Foundation.
>
>Oh, bloody hell. We have to wait so long between Uplift books,
>now we have to wait even longer while Brin wastes his time with the
>latest round of Foundationsweepings? Say it ain't so!
This has been widely known for over a year now; colour me surprised if
this is the first you've heard of it.
Even so, I doubt that it'll lead to much of a delay between Uplift books.
I remember Brin saying somewhere (maybe in the Author's Note to _Glory
Season_) that he typically writes in a three book cycle: Uplift book,
serious SF book, fluffy adventure book. In the latest round, _Earth_
would have been the serious SF, and _Glory Season_ was supposed to be the
fluffy adventure.
Admittedly, _Third Foundation_ doesn't strike me as serious SF, but who
knows?
--
Michael Kozlowski m...@cs.wisc.edu
Recommended SF (Updated 5/18): http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~mlk/sfbooks.html
towo...@concentric.net
Ha Nguyen <htn...@eskimo.com> might have said:
>Chad R Orzel (oil...@wam.umd.edu) wrote:
>: SPOILERS
>:
>: >As for _Heaven's Reach_, nothing is settled, not even the Siege of Earth,
>: >if what the NISS machine suggested is true.
>I guess I really wanted to know what happened to Tom and Creideiki and the
>last scene with Ling and Creideiki got my curosity bump revving up,
>and it wanted immediate satisfaction. I mean, how can Creideiki be
>there and then not there? Has he Transcended? Brin seems to be
>pointing out that Creideiki chose the Shallow Cluster for some mysterious
>reason.
I think that Creideiki and the gods he was talking with in SR are going to
turn out to be *really* advanced Meme's.... at least the "gods" will, and
Creideiki seems to have become part of them...maybe he has Trancended...
Dorothy J Heydt
In article <6lnm02$10te$1...@news.doit.wisc.edu>,
Michael Kozlowski <mkoz...@guy.ssc.wisc.edu> wrote:
>
>This has been widely known for over a year now; colour me surprised if
>this is the first you've heard of it.
Here's your crayon...
>Even so, I doubt that it'll lead to much of a delay between Uplift books.
>I remember Brin saying somewhere (maybe in the Author's Note to _Glory
>Season_) that he typically writes in a three book cycle: Uplift book,
>serious SF book, fluffy adventure book.
Yes, I have heard that.
In the latest round, _Earth_
>would have been the serious SF, and _Glory Season_ was supposed to be the
>fluffy adventure.
And I failed miserably in an attempt to get through Chapter One of
either.
Oh, well, it simply means that before I can kiss the handsome prince
again I have to wait not only for the toad to go by, but also the
bullfrog, the iguana, the skink, the endangered spotted newt, and
the California fence lizard.
pa...@webnexus.com
In article <6lnm02$10te$1...@news.doit.wisc.edu>, Michael Kozlowski
<mkoz...@guy.ssc.wisc.edu> wrote:
> In the latest round, _Earth_
> would have been the serious SF, and _Glory Season_ was supposed to be the
> fluffy adventure.
I wonder where _The Transparent Society: Will Technology Force Us to
Choose Between Privacy and Freedom_ fits in. Does it replace one of
the books or is it in addition to one of the fiction books.
Dorothy Heydt wrote:
> And I failed miserably in an attempt to get through Chapter One of
> either.
Hmm.. I think you would like _Glory Season_ if you got a little further
into it. It's basically a coming of age adventure.
Sam Paik
Michael Kozlowski
In article <EuE2w...@kithrup.com>,>Michael Kozlowski <mkoz...@guy.ssc.wisc.edu> wrote:
>>This has been widely known for over a year now; colour me surprised if
>>this is the first you've heard of it.
>
>Here's your crayon...
It seems that Crayola's marketing department is getting a bit out of hand.
>In the latest round, _Earth_
>>would have been the serious SF, and _Glory Season_ was supposed to be the
>>fluffy adventure.
>
>And I failed miserably in an attempt to get through Chapter One of
>either.
Ah. Could you pass me the "astonished" crayon, then?
John S. Novak
>I wonder where _The Transparent Society: Will Technology Force Us to
>Choose Between Privacy and Freedom_ fits in. Does it replace one of
>the books or is it in addition to one of the fiction books.
I haven't read it, but judging from the title, I'd probably have to
place it in the "fluff" category...
--
John S. Novak, III j...@cris.com
The Humblest Man on the Net
Veronica Sullivan
Dorothy Heydt (djh...@kithrup.com) said:
>Oh, well, it simply means that before I can kiss the handsome prince
>again I have to wait not only for the toad to go by, but also the
>bullfrog, the iguana, the skink, the endangered spotted newt, and
>the California fence lizard.
Oh, hey, go ahead and kiss that fence lizard!
ObScure SciSpec: It may save you from a bout of Lyme disease.
ron, waiting for the gopher snake
Mysterious Galaxy
David spoke at some length during his event at Mysterious Galaxy about
the process by which he arrived at what he addresses in his Foundation
novel, the joys of working with Asimov's universe and with the other
"Killer Bs" and the likleyhood he will NOT be writing another
non-fiction book,
Maryelizabeth
Mysterious Galaxy
http://www.mystgalaxy.com