Stephen Donaldson Confusion?
Anne M. Marble
that question made me say, "Huh?!" The poster suggested reading the latest
issue of Piers Anthony's newsletter... OK, it's not something I read often.
:-> But I looked for it. In this issue
(http://www.hipiers.com/newsletter.html), Piers Anthony talked about
fantasy writer Stephen Donaldson and his campaign to stop prison rapes. He
mentions meeting Stephen Donaldson in 1986, when they were both at Del Rey.
He also mentions that Stephen Donaldson, a gay Quaker, died of AIDS in
1996.
Except that the fantasy author is Stephen R. Donaldson -- and unless I've
missed something (?!?), he's still alive. (Even if he hasn't had any new
novels since ending The Gap Into Conflict series...) The anti-prison rape
advocate Piers Anthony was talking about was Stephen Donaldson.
So this is how rumors get started... It's scary to think some people will
think Stephen R. Donaldson is dead because they read about it in the Piers
Anthony newsletter and didn't think to question the facts. (And yes, I
think there must be some cross-over audience between the two. After all, a
lot of SF and fantasy fans are widely, and wildly, read.)
--
This message may contain violent punctuation, explicit grammatical
errors, and a shocking ending with a preposition.
Luke Webber
and the rape scene therein, which pretty well places the Donaldson he was
talking about as Stephen R Donaldson. Yet he also states that Donaldson
wasn't his real name, even though that would appear to have been his
father's name, judging from the bios I've seen.
It looks as if Anthony might be a little mixed up himself, thanks to those
"alert readers". I've sent him some email to ask.
Luke
Anne M. Marble <ama...@abs.net> wrote in message
news:Arbw5.119$XL5....@news.abs.net...
Anne M. Marble
> Did you read the whole thing? Anthony specifically mentions Lord Foul's
Bane
> and the rape scene therein, which pretty well places the Donaldson he was
> talking about as Stephen R Donaldson. Yet he also states that Donaldson
> wasn't his real name, even though that would appear to have been his
> father's name, judging from the bios I've seen.
Yes, I read the whole thing. (Well, not the rest of the newsletter. Though
I noticed he fessed up to a blooper involving the "cookie story" urban
legend made in an earlier newsletter.) I noticed the part where he
mentioned the rape scene in LFB. Interesting link between the rape scene
and the prison rape advocacy. (Even more interesting if you include The Gap
into Conflict series.) Too bad it's not the same guy.
> It looks as if Anthony might be a little mixed up himself, thanks to
those
> "alert readers". I've sent him some email to ask.
Thanks. I was tempted to do that, but I remember his attitude toward
editors who tried to correct his work. ;->
Luke Webber
> Luke Webber <lu...@webber.com.au> wrote:
> > Did you read the whole thing? Anthony specifically mentions Lord Foul's
> Bane
> > and the rape scene therein, which pretty well places the Donaldson he
was
> > talking about as Stephen R Donaldson. Yet he also states that Donaldson
> > wasn't his real name, even though that would appear to have been his
> > father's name, judging from the bios I've seen.
>
> Yes, I read the whole thing. (Well, not the rest of the newsletter. Though
> I noticed he fessed up to a blooper involving the "cookie story" urban
> legend made in an earlier newsletter.) I noticed the part where he
> mentioned the rape scene in LFB. Interesting link between the rape scene
> and the prison rape advocacy. (Even more interesting if you include The
Gap
> into Conflict series.) Too bad it's not the same guy.
I somehow doubt Stephen Donaldson the writer would share those feelings. <g>
> > It looks as if Anthony might be a little mixed up himself, thanks to
> those
> > "alert readers". I've sent him some email to ask.
>
> Thanks. I was tempted to do that, but I remember his attitude toward
> editors who tried to correct his work. ;->
Well I figure the worst he can do is dump me as his editor, which means
he'll have to hire me first, so I'll get at least one book out of him. One
with naked people on the cover, so he'd better build in lots of sex. Maybe
he could write something about, let's see... prison rape! What a penance!
Luke
atholbrose
>And while we're on the subject of Donaldson not having written much,
>lately...anyone know if he has anything in progress? We had _Reave the
>Just_ (the short story collection) out in early '99, and the final Gap
>book out a few years before. That's about enough time for his usual
>novel-writing length. Is he doing something new? Another Reed Stephenson
>book? Taking a break?
I have no idea, really; amazon.com lists nothing coming from Reed
Stephenson. However, I looked up Stephen Donaldson, and was somewhat
surprised to see a 1986 edition of "Animal Lover" (one of the stories from
_Reave the Just_ I haven't read yet; for some reason I never have really
enjoyed reading short stories as well as I like reading novels) published
on diskette for the Apple II series... an early e-book...
Phil Carter
> In alt.fantasy, someone asked if Stephen Donaldson was still alive. Well,
> that question made me say, "Huh?!" The poster suggested reading the latest
> issue of Piers Anthony's newsletter... OK, it's not something I read
often.
> :-> But I looked for it. In this issue
> (http://www.hipiers.com/newsletter.html), Piers Anthony talked about
> fantasy writer Stephen Donaldson and his campaign to stop prison rapes.
They're not the same person, and even five minutes' cursory research would
have shown Piers that they couldn't possibly be the same. Here's a copy of
the note I sent through his "official" website this afternoon. (Warning,
this gets a bit long).
******
Hi Piers (or whomever reads this),
I've been a Piers Anthony fan since I read "A Spell for Chameleon" back in
1980, when I was eight years old. That makes what I'm about to say even more
unpleasant to me.
In the latest "Hi Piers" column on HiPiers.com (AwGhost 2000), there are a
number of inconsistent, misleading, or outright incorrect statements about
fantasy author Stephen R. Donaldson. I'm writing now in the hopes that
corrections will promptly be made so that other readers aren't misled and
believe things that aren't so. I'm disappointed that Piers didn't do some
more research before making blanket statements such as the ones he made, as
I truly thought he was a man of more consistency and character than that.
Here's why I'm upset:
"... Last column, I mentioned best-selling fantasy novelist Stephen
Donaldson's campaign to stop prisoner rapes ... Stop Prisoner Rape is at
www.spr.org and is still in operation. Stephen Donaldson was its president
from 1988-96, and active on behalf of the cause, as a rape counselor,
article writer, spokesman, and legal activist."
This is a true statement. However, fantasy author Stephen R. Donaldson is
NOT the same person as the Stephen Donaldson who was the president of SPR
from 1988 to 1996. Thus, Piers' comments about Stephen R.'s possible motives
for the violence and unpleasant scenes in his Thomas Covenant books are
unfounded and untrue. This is unfair to Mr. Donaldson, particularly in light
of the fact that many people take statements found on the Internet to be
true regardless of their actual veracity.
More:
"Stephen Donaldson was gay. He was born Robert A Martin, Jr., and adopted
the name Stephen Donaldson as a pseudonym for his involvement in the gay
liberation movement."
This is true. Fantasy author Stephen R. Donaldson, however, was NOT born
Robert A. Martin Jr.; his real name is Stephen Reeder Donaldson and he is
the son of James R. Donaldson and Mary Ruth Reeder.
"In 1973 he participated in a peaceful Quaker ... protest against the
bombing of Cambodia. He was arrested--and over a two day period was
gang-raped by prisoners approximately 60 times."
Again, this is the wrong Donaldson. Fantasy author Stephen R. Donaldson
never underwent this horrific experience. See below.
"... thereafter he was active in the issue of prisoner rape, until his death
in 1996, of complications of AIDS contracted during that gang rape. He was
49."
This alone should have been enough to raise eyebrows, as fantasy author
Stephen R. Donaldson is alive and well. I met him at last year's Dragon*Con
and he was hale and hearty. Stephen "Donny" Donaldson, on the other hand,
did in fact die on July 18, 1996. The press release from the ACLU upon his
death can be found at http://www.aclu.org/news/n071996c.html .
There are many more inconsistencies that would have come to light and made
the obvious mixup even more obvious if Piers (or his researchers) had done a
bit more digging. All of this information is readily available; I obtained
specifics in less than half an hour of searching this afternoon. Links are
provided at the end of this email).
For example:
Robert A. Martin Jr. was born on July 27th in Norfolk, VA; Stephen R.
Donaldson was born on May 13th in Cleveland, OH.
Robert A. Martin Jr. served in the U.S. Navy and was discharged due to
"homosexual behavior"; Stephen R. Donaldson served two years as a
conscientious objector doing hospital work in Akron during the Vietnam War
and was not (to the best of my knowledge) in the armed forces at all.
Robert A. Martin Jr. earned a B.A. of political science at Columbia
University and later studied religion as a graduate student there as well,
while Stephen R. Donaldson attended the College of Wooster, OH, and received
his M.A. in English from Kent University.
The violent rape which so changed Robert A. Martin Jr.'s life took place in
1973, a time during which Stephen R. Donaldson was working non-stop on the
first Chronicles of Thomas Covenant.
And finally:
"So he had reason to write about rape and violation, in and out of his
fantasy; he knew well whereof he wrote. In fact I think he even tried to
understand the position of the rapist, making him the hero in his novels."
This is a flat-out untruth. Although Stephen R. Donaldson may have had his
own reasons for writing about violence and rape in his Thomas Covenant
novels, implying that he was himself a victim of such attacks both slanders
him and cheapens the situation of the late Robert A. Martin Jr. who actually
was the victim of said attacks.
I'm disappointed in Piers for not finding out more about Stephen R.
Donaldson before painting him with such broad strokes, and for not taking
the brief time it would have required to do a bit of minor research. Even
five minutes' searching would have shown that Piers had the wrong man -- and
yet he didn't spend those five minutes. Or, if he did, he ignored many
obvious inconsistencies.
Here are several Web links with more information. This info is readily
available in print but the Web links are easily located and less obscure.
Links to info about Stephen R. Donaldson:
http://www-theory.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/%7Eaaa/SD.html
http://www.dragoncon.org/people/donalds.html
http://members.aol.com/WrldofFant/donald.html
http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/authors/Stephen_Donaldson.htm
Links to info about Robert A. Martin Jr.:
http://www.igc.org/spr/docs/sdinfo.html (with many additional links)
http://www.aclu.org/library/donnyobt.html
http://www.aclu.org/news/n071996c.html
I hope Piers will apologize to Stephen R. Donaldson publicly for his
erroneous statements and apologize, as well, to his readers, who have come
to know him over the years as a man of ethics and a strong moral code.
Regards,
Phil Carter
disappointed Anthony fan of 20+ years
******
I don't expect I'll get a response back, but if there isn't a retraction in
the next newsletter, I'm sending a copy of this to Donaldson via HIS
publisher to see if that stirs things up a bit.
--
Phil Carter -- artoo (at) bellsouth (dot) net
http://personal.atl.bellsouth.net/~artoo
"Without music, life is a journey through a desert."
-- Pat Conroy
Robert Bedford
although I have yet to track down any of the other Reed Stephens books.
How was the duology MORDANT's NEED?
"atholbrose" <cinn...@shell.one.net> wrote in message
news:slrn8s53k0....@shell.one.net...
Kevin
atholbrose <cinn...@shell.one.net> wrote:
>On Fri, 15 Sep 2000 02:59:08 GMT, A. Freed <fre...@pond1.com1> wrote:
>>And while we're on the subject of Donaldson not having written much,
>>lately...anyone know if he has anything in progress?
>
>Stephenson.
The name you are thinking of is Reed Stephens, a pseudonym
that was apparently forced on Donaldson by his publisher for his
mysteries. And indeed, another one of those mysteries is supposed
to be coming out soon.
I know that he has said he is seriously considering writing yet
another Covenant trilogy---the entire thing would then be a trilogy of
trilogies. I read somewhere that he has now actually begun writing it,
but "some guy said it on Usenet" probably isn't the most reliable source.
Kevin
Kevin
Robert Bedford <robbe...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>I read somewhere on the net that a new Reed Stephens book is in the works,
>although I have yet to track down any of the other Reed Stephens books.
>
>How was the duology MORDANT's NEED?
I enjoyed it quite a bit when I first read it circa 1986. But...I've
never felt any urge to reread it since then, even when I was quite bored.
That has to say something.
It's much more cheerful than typical Donaldson, I might almost say
even a bit "light." It's also a little closer to standard-issue fantasy.
It doesn't take the anti-hero approach; the protagonists are actually
sympathetic characters.
I can easily imagine someone absolutely hating the Covenant books but
still liking Mordant's Need.
Kevin
Michael Hargreave Mawson
<ktn...@physics.utexas.edu> writes
> I know that he has said he is seriously considering writing yet
>another Covenant trilogy---the entire thing would then be a trilogy of
>trilogies. I read somewhere that he has now actually begun writing it,
>but "some guy said it on Usenet" probably isn't the most reliable source.
I shudder to think what he would have to do to the Land to get Covenant
back there. I'm not sure I could cope.
ATB
--
Mike
"His wish was to become a historian - not to dig out facts and store
them in himself... but to understand them, call the dead back to life
and let them speak through him to their descendants. She sometimes
wondered who would pay for it and who would heed."
- from "Harvest of Stars" by Poul Anderson.
Jordan S. Bassior
>I shudder to think what he would have to do to the Land to get Covenant
>back there. I'm not sure I could cope.
Can't Covenant stay dead?
--
Sincerely Yours,
Jordan
--
"Whoever would be a man must be a non-conformist" (Ralph Waldo Emerson)
--
Phil Fraering
> In article <8pv5pn$ogl$1...@linux10.ph.utexas.edu>, Kevin
> <ktn...@physics.utexas.edu> writes
>
> > I know that he has said he is seriously considering writing yet
> >another Covenant trilogy---the entire thing would then be a trilogy of
> >trilogies. I read somewhere that he has now actually begun writing it,
> >but "some guy said it on Usenet" probably isn't the most reliable source.
>
> I shudder to think what he would have to do to the Land to get Covenant
> back there. I'm not sure I could cope.
Spoilers in the hole!
Isn't Covenant part of the land for good now? The embodiment of the
balance of the new Staff of Law?
--
Phil Fraering "One day, Pinky, A MOUSE shall rule, and it is the
p...@globalreach.net humans who will be forced to endure these humiliating
/Will work for tape/ diversions!"
"You mean like Orlando, Brain?"
Michael Hargreave Mawson
<p...@globalreach.net> writes
>Michael Hargreave Mawson <O...@46thFoot.com> writes:
>
>> In article <8pv5pn$ogl$1...@linux10.ph.utexas.edu>, Kevin
>> <ktn...@physics.utexas.edu> writes
>>
>> > I know that he has said he is seriously considering writing yet
>> >another Covenant trilogy---the entire thing would then be a trilogy of
>> >trilogies. I read somewhere that he has now actually begun writing it,
>> >but "some guy said it on Usenet" probably isn't the most reliable source.
>>
>> I shudder to think what he would have to do to the Land to get Covenant
>> back there. I'm not sure I could cope.
>
>Spoilers in the hole!
>
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>Isn't Covenant part of the land for good now? The embodiment of the
>balance of the new Staff of Law?
>
the Staff of Law have to be destroyed (How? By whom?), but also he
would have to be reincarnated (And just how likely is he to believe that
that has happened? And what is he going to do during the initial
period of disorientation/denial?). Add to that the dramatic
requirement that the Land's need is going to have to be greater than
ever before, and you have the opening chapter of a book that I fear to
read. The Second Chronicles were suffused with such evil that it is
agony to read them - what would the Third be like?
It's not going to stop me buying them in hardback the day they are
published, though...
Joe "Nuke Me Xemu" Foster
> Anne M. Marble <ama...@abs.net> wrote in message
> news:X4hw5.136$XL5....@news.abs.net...
> > Thanks. I was tempted to do that, but I remember his attitude toward
> > editors who tried to correct his work. ;->
> Well I figure the worst he can do is dump me as his editor, which means
> he'll have to hire me first, so I'll get at least one book out of him. One
> with naked people on the cover, so he'd better build in lots of sex. Maybe
> he could write something about, let's see... prison rape! What a penance!
With or without children being involved? Where are kids who were tried
as adults and found guilty incarcerated?
--
Joe Foster <mailto:jfo...@ricochet.net> Space Cooties! <http://www.xenu.net/>
WARNING: I cannot be held responsible for the above They're coming to
because my cats have apparently learned to type. take me away, ha ha!
Luke Webber
news:ss86as...@corp.supernews.com...
> With or without children being involved? Where are kids who were tried
> as adults and found guilty incarcerated?
Well if it isn't Joe Foster of Borg! Haven't caught sight of you since me VB
and Delphi days.
Maybe you could lock 'em up in a kind of junior prison, where the rapists
are hung small and always use condoms? <g>
Luke
Wayne Throop
:: Covenant back there. I'm not sure I could cope.
: jsba...@aol.com (Jordan S. Bassior)
: Can't Covenant stay dead?
Well, Berek Half-Hand didn't (sort of), so why should Covenant?
( Um... I *think* I'm remembering the Ur-Covenant's name correctly... )
Wayne Throop thr...@sheol.org http://sheol.org/throopw
"He's not just a Galaxy Ranger... he's a Super-Trooper!"