Surviving the brain-eater?
anxious triffid
eater only to make a triumphant return to form?
Brett O'Callaghan
wrote:
>Are there any examples of writers who have been considered lost to the brain-
>eater only to make a triumphant return to form?
Can't think of any. Possibly OSC, who has made at least a partial
return to form IMHO. I really wish Niven or Baxter were on the list.
Byeeeee.
--
Gadzooks - here comes the Harbourmaster!
http://www.geocities.com/brettocallaghan - Newsgroup Stats for Agent
Timothy McDaniel
Brett O'Callaghan <brettoc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>anxious triffid <anxiousINFEAROFSPAM@anxioustriffid@fserve.co.uk>
>wrote:
>
>>Are there any examples of writers who have been considered lost to
>
>Can't think of any. Possibly OSC, who has made at least a partial
>return to form IMHO.
Did John Varley's brain ever get eaten, or were the third Titan novel
and the time-travel novel (Millenium?) just plain sucky?
--
Tim McDaniel, tm...@panix.com; tm...@us.ibm.com is my work address
Courtney Campbell
> In article <kusdrvkve7guvrb5o...@4ax.com>,
> Brett O'Callaghan <brettoc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >anxious triffid <anxiousINFEAROFSPAM@anxioustriffid@fserve.co.uk>
> >wrote:
> >
> >>Are there any examples of writers who have been considered lost to
> >>the brain-eater only to make a triumphant return to form?
> >
> >Can't think of any. Possibly OSC, who has made at least a partial
> >return to form IMHO.
>
> Did John Varley's brain ever get eaten, or were the third Titan novel
> and the time-travel novel (Millenium?) just plain sucky?
uhhh, I'm new here.
A) what's a 'brain eater'?
B) Titan was bad simply because it just isn't interesting to read about
people climbing a weird tree for like 100 pages.
-Campbell
Jon Meltzer
news:bp6thv$l5b$1...@reader2.panix.com...
> Did John Varley's brain ever get eaten, or were the third Titan novel
> and the time-travel novel (Millenium?) just plain sucky?
I'm afraid it did. I haven't been impressed with his latest novels, and it
seems he's abandoned short stories (that is, I don't remember seeing any
lately).
Fire3Sky
>return to form IMHO.
Is the new Alvin Maker book any good? I think it is called Crystal City.
I gave up on OSC a long time ago, but I have trouble giving up on a series once
I've started it. I did give up on the Ender series after the double wammy of
_Xenocide_ and _Children of the Mind_.
If the final Alvin Maker books get good reviews, I might try them, even knowing
that I should probably swear off OSC permanently - I'm not aware of any writers
that made a permanent recovery from the brain eater.
I used to keep reading brain-eater victims hoping that they would get better,
but I am learning that life is too short.
I am currently proud of myself for giving up the Anita Blake series, Aimee
Thurlo's semi-paranormal Ella Clah mysteries, and the TV show Smallville (which
sucked last season - only John Glover as the delightfully evil Lionel Luther
was worth watching).
Another question - if, say, the first three books in a series were good, then
the brain eater strikes, how many bad books do you allow before giving up on
the author completely? My answer is 'way too many' - I tend to keep reading an
author hoping they'll get better.
Fire3Sky
Lawrence Person
anxious triffid <anxiousINFEAROFSPAM@anxioustriffid@fserve.co.uk> wrote:
> Are there any examples of writers who have been considered lost to the brain-
> eater only to make a triumphant return to form?
Possibly Frederik Pohl? What of his work in the 1960s (admittedly a small part
of it) I'm not fond of, but he was certainly Back by Man Plus and Gateway.
Dave Goldman
Meltzer" <jonNOSPA...@mindspring.com> wrote:
He had one in the June 2003 Asimov's. But it's just a minor lunar
serial-killer mystery with detective Anna-Louise Bach.
- Dave Goldman
Portland, OR
Justin Bacon
>Another question - if, say, the first three books in a series were good, then
>the brain eater strikes, how many bad books do you allow before giving up on
>the author completely? My answer is 'way too many' - I tend to keep reading
>an author hoping they'll get better.
If the series has a good head of steam (three or more books), I seem to keep
going for 2 or 3 books. My thinking seems to go like this:
1st Crappy Book: Argh, that was bad. Well, the next one will be better.
2nd Crappy Book: Oof. That was even worse. I really shouldn't give this guy
another shot, but it was going so well. I'll give him one more shot.
3rd Crappy Book: My eyeballs are bleeding! No more! No more!
I base this on my experience with Weber's Honor Harrington, Anthony's Xanth,
Asprin's Myth, and Asimov's Foundation.
If the quality keeps varying between good and bad, the author will be able to
string me along for awhile. But if he piles up a couple of bad books in a row,
I'll be gone.
If I enjoy the first book in the series but find the second to be unmitigated
garbage, that's usually it. Pohl's Gateway and Niven's Ringworld leap to mind
here. The recent exception to this was Asaro's Ruby Dynasty novels (the third
novel turned out to be thoroughly mediocre, and I dunno if I'll ever try the
series again).
Justin Bacon
tria...@aol.com
James Nicoll
Jon Meltzer <jonNOSPA...@mindspring.com> wrote:
short stories.
--
It's amazing how the waterdrops form: a ball of water with an air bubble
inside it and inside of that one more bubble of water. It looks so beautiful
[...]. I realized something: the world is interesting for the man who can
be surprised. -Valentin Lebedev-
David Cowie
>
> uhhh, I'm new here.
> A) what's a 'brain eater'?
When a good author goes bad, people here often say that the author has
fallen victim to the Brain Eater.
The Brain Eater has many causes, two common ones are "I am too popular to
need an editor" and "Everyone is interested in the bees in my bonnet ."
--
David Cowie david_cowie at lineone dot net
Containment Failure + 47:36
anxious triffid
news:20031116034534...@mb-m29.aol.com:
> Fire3Sky wrote:
>>Another question - if, say, the first three books in a series were good,
>>then the brain eater strikes, how many bad books do you allow before
>>giving up on the author completely? My answer is 'way too many' - I tend
>>to keep reading an author hoping they'll get better.
>
> If the quality keeps varying between good and bad, the author will be
> able to string me along for awhile. But if he piles up a couple of bad
> books in a row, I'll be gone.
>
This seems to suggest to me that authors later revisiting earlier series
should interpolate the new novels between the older ones. Thus, if the
original novels are passable, people should only suffer one sucky novel
before a return to form, then a sucky novel...u.s.w.
Of course this tactic will probably work better with respect to new readers
who haven't read the original series, rather than long-term fans (who will
catch on what is happening pretty quickly).
James Nicoll
David Cowie <see...@lineone.net> wrote:
>On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 23:56:44 -0600, Courtney Campbell wrote:
>
>>
>> uhhh, I'm new here.
>> A) what's a 'brain eater'?
>
>When a good author goes bad, people here often say that the author has
>fallen victim to the Brain Eater.
>The Brain Eater has many causes, two common ones are "I am too popular to
>need an editor" and "Everyone is interested in the bees in my bonnet ."
I'd add physical injury to that, from aging to chronic pain to
"events".
David Tate
> Are there any examples of writers who have been considered lost to the brain-
> eater only to make a triumphant return to form?
Paul Simon.
Oh, you meant SF...
I'd nominate Roger Zelazny. When A NIGHT IN THE LONESOME OCTOBER was
published (1993), Zelazny's most recent work had been:
ROGER ZELAZNY'S VISUAL GUIDE TO AMBER (1988) with Neil Randall
KNIGHT OF SHADOWS 1989 (bad Amber)
THE BLACK THRONE (1990) with Fred Saberhagen
THE GRAVEYARD HEART (1990)
THE MASK OF LOKI (1990) with Thomas T. Thomas
PRINCE OF CHAOS (1991) (more bad Amber)
BRING ME THE HEAD OF PRINCE CHARMING (1991) with Robert Sheckely
(appalling)
FLARE (1992) with Thomas T. Thomas
IF AT FAUST YOU DON'T SUCCEED (1993) with Robert Sheckley (worse)
...and no good short works since "Permafrost" in 1986.
So, a minor masterpiece and classic-to-be, after a dozen consecutive
disappointments. Does that count?
David Tate
Justin Bacon
>This seems to suggest to me that authors later revisiting earlier series
>should interpolate the new novels between the older ones. Thus, if the
>original novels are passable, people should only suffer one sucky novel
>before a return to form, then a sucky novel...u.s.w.
That only works for readers who read in internal chronological order, rather
than the far more sensible publication order.
Justin Bacon
tria...@aol.com
anxious triffid
Ahh, you snipped out my comment about newer readers and older readers: I was
working on the assumption that newer readers would read in internal
chronological order, whereas older readers (who had likely read the earlier
works) would read in publication order.
I am not going to enter into the debate as to which order is "far more
sensible".
Konrad Gaertner
>
> Are there any examples of writers who have been considered lost to the brain-
> eater only to make a triumphant return to form?
The only one that comes to my mind is Robert Asprin, and I wouldn't
call him recovered yet....
--KG
Nancy Lebovitz
James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
>In article <pan.2003.11.16....@lineone.net>,
>David Cowie <see...@lineone.net> wrote:
>>On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 23:56:44 -0600, Courtney Campbell wrote:
>>
>>> uhhh, I'm new here.
>>> A) what's a 'brain eater'?
>>
>>When a good author goes bad, people here often say that the author has
>>fallen victim to the Brain Eater.
>>The Brain Eater has many causes, two common ones are "I am too popular to
>>need an editor" and "Everyone is interested in the bees in my bonnet ."
>
> I'd add physical injury to that, from aging to chronic pain to
>"events".
>
Would getting entranced by literary theory count as a fourth and uncommon
cause?
--
Nancy Lebovitz na...@netaxs.com www.nancybuttons.com
Now, with bumper stickers
Using your turn signal is not "giving information to the enemy"
Nancy Lebovitz
James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
>In article <yyEtb.2624$Rk5....@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>,
>Jon Meltzer <jonNOSPA...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>"Timothy McDaniel" <tm...@panix.com> wrote in message
>>news:bp6thv$l5b$1...@reader2.panix.com...
>>
>>> Did John Varley's brain ever get eaten, or were the third Titan novel
>>> and the time-travel novel (Millenium?) just plain sucky?
>>
>>I'm afraid it did. I haven't been impressed with his latest novels, and it
>>seems he's abandoned short stories (that is, I don't remember seeing any
>>lately).
>>
> He probably likes to eat and there's very little money in
>short stories.
Also, I don't think there's a consensus that _The Steel Beach_ and
_Golden Globe_ are evidence of massive deterioration. To put it another
way, *I* liked them. I agree that the second and third Titan books and
_Millenium_ were pretty bad.
anxious triffid
news:9d67e55e.03111...@posting.google.com:
> anxious triffid <anxiousINFEAROFSPAM@anxioustriffid@fserve.co.uk> wrote
> in message news:<Xns94351E6195481an...@195.92.193.157>...
>> Are there any examples of writers who have been considered lost to the
>> brain- eater only to make a triumphant return to form?
>
> Paul Simon.
>
> Oh, you meant SF...
>
Not necessarilly: the brain-eater is a sci-fi concept but are there signs of
hope in the wider (cough)literary(cough) world?
Peter D. Tillman
da...@remove-this-bit-ResearchSoftwareDesign.com (Dave Goldman) wrote:
> In article <yyEtb.2624$Rk5....@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>, "Jon
> Meltzer" <jonNOSPA...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> > "Timothy McDaniel" <tm...@panix.com> wrote in message
> > news:bp6thv$l5b$1...@reader2.panix.com...
> >
> > > Did John Varley's brain ever get eaten, or were the third Titan novel
> > > and the time-travel novel (Millenium?) just plain sucky?
> >
Well, I *liked* TITAN. Not his best, but the [draws blank] trilogy is a
neat variant on the Big Dumb Object stories.
"Millenium" in it's original novella form is killer.
> > I'm afraid it did. I haven't been impressed with his latest novels, and it
> > seems he's abandoned short stories (that is, I don't remember seeing any
> > lately).
>
> He had one in the June 2003 Asimov's. But it's just a minor lunar
> serial-killer mystery with detective Anna-Louise Bach.
>
--which was fair at best, imo. In general, while Varley's clearly fallen
since his peak (the classic Eight Worlds stories), he can still write
well. RED THUNDER is hot stuff for 3/4 of the book, though it tails off
pretty badly when they get to Mars. Still worth a read, imo. As was
GOLDEN GLOBE, which had different flaws.
So I definitely wouldn't put Varley in the "Brain Eaten" class.
Cheers -- Pete Tillman
My review of RT: http://www.sfsite.com/09b/re160.htm
Alan Scott
> In article <yyEtb.2624$Rk5....@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>,
> Jon Meltzer <jonNOSPA...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>I'm afraid it did. I haven't been impressed with his latest novels, and it
>>seems he's abandoned short stories (that is, I don't remember seeing any
>>lately).
>>
> He probably likes to eat and there's very little money in
> short stories.
I suspect James is right on both counts. I had the honor of meeting Mr.
Varley briefly a few years ago, at his lost-his-lease rummage sale in an
enormous but ramshackle second-floor apartment in Portland (Oregon). I
believe Varley not only likes to eat but likes to eat well - I recall the
kitchen was well-stocked with spices and implements - and the impression I
got then was that, while he wasn't poor, his finances were definitely
something about which he had to remain concerned.
I like Varley a lot - while his more recent work hasn't bowled me away
the way _The Ophiuchi Hotline_ and _The Persistence of Vision_ did, I also
thought _The Golden Globe_ and _Red Thunder_ were something close to a
return to form, and I don't think it's quite yet time to conclude that
he's succumbed irreversibly to the Brain Eater.
--
Alan P. Scott..................http://www.pacifier.com/~ascott/apshome.htm
"Passing in any crowd are secret people whose hidden response to
beauty is the desire to tear it into bleeding meat."
--James Tiptree, Jr. (Alice B. Sheldon)
Justin Bacon
>The only one that comes to my mind is Robert Asprin, and I wouldn't
>call him recovered yet....
Have you read the most recent Myth Inc. book? I've found the Myth Inc. books to
be generally atrocious, and I just don't have the heart to try it given
Asprin's recent track record. (Although I'm willing to blame at least some his
shortcomings on his co-authors. The third Phule's book, for example, was
clearly an example of an Asprin outline fleshed out by a co-author without any
sense of character or comedy.) I've also seen something called MYTH ALLIANCES,
but I'm very hesitant to look at a Myth book which (a) a major publisher isn't
touching, and (b) he's writing as a collaboration.
JB
Lawrence Person
tria...@aol.com (Justin Bacon) wrote:
> I base this on my experience with Weber's Honor Harrington, Anthony's Xanth,
> Asprin's Myth, and Asimov's Foundation.
>
This cannot be emphasized too many times:
Read the first three Foundation books, then stop.
Read Dune, then stop.
Never read anything co-written by Gentry Lee.
These three steps will dramatically increase your SF reading pleasure...
Tom Scudder
> In article <bp8ahu$89n$1...@panix1.panix.com>,
> James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
> >In article <pan.2003.11.16....@lineone.net>,
> >David Cowie <see...@lineone.net> wrote:
> >>On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 23:56:44 -0600, Courtney Campbell wrote:
> >>
> >>> uhhh, I'm new here.
> >>> A) what's a 'brain eater'?
> >>
> >>When a good author goes bad, people here often say that the author has
> >>fallen victim to the Brain Eater.
> >>The Brain Eater has many causes, two common ones are "I am too popular to
> >>need an editor" and "Everyone is interested in the bees in my bonnet ."
> >
> > I'd add physical injury to that, from aging to chronic pain to
> >"events".
> >
> Is Delany on the Brain Eater list?
>
> Would getting entranced by literary theory count as a fourth and uncommon
> cause?
I think that that's a subset of "everyone is interested in the bees in
my bonnet." Ditto ditto being entranced by a particular political
theory, or theory of gender relations (see Sim, Dave).
Nancy Lebovitz
Justin Bacon <tria...@aol.com> wrote:
>Konrad Gaertner wrote:
>>The only one that comes to my mind is Robert Asprin, and I wouldn't
>>call him recovered yet....
>
>Have you read the most recent Myth Inc. book? I've found the Myth Inc. books to
>be generally atrocious, and I just don't have the heart to try it given
>Asprin's recent track record. (Although I'm willing to blame at least some his
>shortcomings on his co-authors. The third Phule's book, for example, was
Possibly, but the concept may have been basically flawed. To my mind, what
made the first two Phule books attractive is that they're transformation
stories. When the company is adequately transformed, what stories are left
to tell?
>clearly an example of an Asprin outline fleshed out by a co-author without any
>sense of character or comedy.) I've also seen something called MYTH ALLIANCES,
>but I'm very hesitant to look at a Myth book which (a) a major publisher isn't
>touching, and (b) he's writing as a collaboration.
Brenda W. Clough
Hear him, hear him!!
Brenda
--
---------
Brenda W. Clough
Read my novella "May Be Some Time"
Complete at http://www.fictionwise.com
My web page is at http://www.sff.net/people/Brenda/
Andrew Wheeler
I'll put in a good word for _Black Throne_ (which is minor Zelazny at
best, but much better and more entertaining than his other
collaborations of the same era), though I agree with your general point.
--
Andrew Wheeler
--
Education: NONE
Skills: NONE
Merits: NONE
Recommendations: NONE
Justin Bacon
>>The third Phule's book, for example, was clearly an example of an Asprin
outline
>>fleshed out by a co-author without any sense of character or comedy.
>
>Possibly, but the concept may have been basically flawed. To my mind, what
>made the first two Phule books attractive is that they're transformation
>stories. When the company is adequately transformed, what stories are left
>to tell?
There may be some truth to that. But what made me put the book down after about
25 pages was simply the poor quality of the writing on a page-to-page basis.
I'd have to track down my copy of it to describe specifics, but what finally
made me put the book aside was a scene in which I could clearly see the comedic
potential: Similar scenes in other Asprin books were hilarious. But the actual
execution of the scene in this book was absolutely flat and humorless.
Now, it's certainly possible that this lack of execution was a symptom of
Asprin's brain-eater. But, given the presence of a co-author, my suspicion
remains that Asprin wrote an outline and his hack collaborator wrote the book.
Justin Bacon
tria...@aol.com
David Tate
> >
> Ahh, you snipped out my comment about newer readers and older readers: I was
> working on the assumption that newer readers would read in internal
> chronological order, whereas older readers (who had likely read the earlier
> works) would read in publication order.
I always read any series I come to in publication order, unless for
some reason I am totally unable to find out what that is. This is
true even for series that were finished before I was born, where the
internal order is very different from the publication order.
David Tate
Jon Meltzer
message news:dave-16110...@ip94.124-173-207.eli-du.nwlink.com...
> > I'm afraid it did. I haven't been impressed with his latest novels, and
it
> > seems he's abandoned short stories (that is, I don't remember seeing any
> > lately).
>
> He had one in the June 2003 Asimov's. But it's just a minor lunar
> serial-killer mystery with detective Anna-Louise Bach.
Yeah, I now remember that one.
Munch munch ...
Justin Bacon
>I always read any series I come to in publication order, unless for
>some reason I am totally unable to find out what that is. This is
>true even for series that were finished before I was born, where the
>internal order is very different from the publication order.
The theory, for me, is simple: The books must be readable in the publication
order. In fact, its a good bet that they were *meant* to be read in the order
of publication. There is no guarantee that the books were meant to be read in
the order of internal chronology.
There's a reason why the term "prequel" exists. (I just wish somebody would let
the heirs of C.S. Lewis know.)
Justin Bacon
tria...@aol.com
Brenda W. Clough
>There's a reason why the term "prequel" exists. (I just wish somebody would let
>the heirs of C.S. Lewis know.)
>
>
>
The estate, having bobbled the ball by renumbering the books some time
ago, has decided to waffle the issue for ever by taking the numbers off
all seven volumes. I suppose an energetic reader will always be able to
deduce the original publication order by looking at the copyright dates.
Oh, and a live-action movie is in production. They are going to film in
New Zealand, the currently fashionable backdrop for filmic fantasy.
Fire3Sky
>>
>>Read Dune, then stop.
>>
>>Never read anything co-written by Gentry Lee.
>>
>>These three steps will dramatically increase your SF reading pleasure...
>>
>>
We should really make up a "Do not read past this point FAQ - Is there anything
like that in the main FAQ for this newsgroup (I read the newsgroup FAQ a long
time ago, but didn't bookmark it)?
My problem is that I don't believe the naysayers. Before reading the Anita
Blake books, I asked for recommendations from this group - nearly everyone said
'read the first two or three, then stop'.
I read through part of the tenth book *ugh* "Narcissus in Chains" *ugh*.
We should have a support group for those of us who just can't stop reading bad
series.
Fire3Sky
Ross TenEyck
>Justin Bacon wrote:
>>There's a reason why the term "prequel" exists. (I just wish somebody would let
>>the heirs of C.S. Lewis know.)
>The estate, having bobbled the ball by renumbering the books some time
>ago, has decided to waffle the issue for ever by taking the numbers off
>all seven volumes. I suppose an energetic reader will always be able to
>deduce the original publication order by looking at the copyright dates.
Have they now? That would be good news. I've been wanting to upgrade
to a decent hardcover set, but I've been holding off because all the
ones I can find are numbered in the wrong order.
--
================== http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~teneyck ==================
Ross TenEyck Seattle, WA \ Light, kindled in the furnace of hydrogen;
ten...@alumni.caltech.edu \ like smoke, sunlight carries the hot-metal
Are wa yume? Soretomo maboroshi? \ tang of Creation's forge.
Fire3Sky
>to a decent hardcover set, but I've been holding off because all the
>ones I can find are numbered in the wrong order.
>
What is the correct order?
Fire3Sky
Justin Bacon
The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe
Prince Caspian
The Voyage of the Dawn Treader
The Silver Chair
The Horse and His Boy
The Magician's Nephew
The Last Battle
Scholars should seriously take the context of a writer's words into
consideration before passing them off as holy writ. For C.S. Lewis to write a
letter to a young boy, letting him know that it was okay to read the books in
whatever order he wants to, is unremarkable. Attempting to claim that this
represents his true feelings on what order the books should be read in is
insanity.
From the texts themselves, it is clear (for example) that THE LION, THE WITCH,
AND THE WARDROBE is meant to be read first. The story actually lies to you if
you read the books in internal chronological order (starting with THE
MAGICIAN'S NEPHEW).
No sane reading of THE MAGICIAN'S NEPHEW could consider it anything other than
a prequel. No sane reading of THE LION, THE WITCH, AND THE WARDROBE could
consider it anything other than the first book in the series.
Justin Bacon
tria...@aol.com
Damien Neil
<na...@unix5.netaxs.com> wrote:
> Also, I don't think there's a consensus that _The Steel Beach_ and
> _Golden Globe_ are evidence of massive deterioration. To put it another
> way, *I* liked them. I agree that the second and third Titan books and
> _Millenium_ were pretty bad.
I appear to be one of the only people who didn't dislike the second and
third Titan books.
I have to read each one in sequence pretending the followups didn't
happen, since each one veers off in a different direction, but I found
them all enjoyable. Even the third.
- Damien
James Nicoll
Brenda W. Clough <clo...@erols.com> wrote:
>
>The estate, having bobbled the ball by renumbering the books some time
>ago, has decided to waffle the issue for ever by taking the numbers off
>all seven volumes. I suppose an energetic reader will always be able to
>deduce the original publication order by looking at the copyright dates.
Couldn't they have a new author "touch up" the old books and
then count copyright from the date of the re-write?
>Oh, and a live-action movie is in production. They are going to film in
>New Zealand, the currently fashionable backdrop for filmic fantasy.
Hmmm. A religion-in version or religion-out version. It seems to
me there was some fuss over the Estate wanting to authorize non-religious
Narnia books a while back.
--
It's amazing how the waterdrops form: a ball of water with an air bubble
inside it and inside of that one more bubble of water. It looks so beautiful
[...]. I realized something: the world is interesting for the man who can
be surprised. -Valentin Lebedev-
Tina Hall
> This cannot be emphasized too many times:
[snip other steps]
> Read Dune, then stop.
> These three steps will dramatically increase your SF reading
> pleasure...
I liked the last two Dune books best (#5 and #6 incase there's
any doubt, or I've missed any).
Tina
j...@jolomo.net
> Munch munch ...
D'oh! I'd almost forgotten that story. Thanks alot :)
Mmmm, tastes like veal
--
Joe Morris
Live music in Atlanta http://jolomo.net/atlanta/shows.html
Unknown
wrote:
>>The estate, having bobbled the ball by renumbering the books some time
>>ago, has decided to waffle the issue for ever by taking the numbers off
>>all seven volumes. I suppose an energetic reader will always be able to
>>deduce the original publication order by looking at the copyright dates.
>
> Couldn't they have a new author "touch up" the old books and
>then count copyright from the date of the re-write?
I'd never buy them if I knew another writer had touched them up.
Ricky
James Nicoll
As I recall it begaun with a novel in which Frank or Joe's sweetie is
murdered by Arab terrorists, inspiring them to go all Rambo.
Tweek
: my bonnet." Ditto ditto being entranced by a particular political
: theory, or theory of gender relations (see Sim, Dave).
Could you please give some detail about Dave Sim's stance on women?
Steve Coltrin
> In article <3FB84AF4...@erols.com>,
> Brenda W. Clough <clo...@erols.com> wrote:
>>
>>The estate, having bobbled the ball by renumbering the books some time
>>ago, has decided to waffle the issue for ever by taking the numbers off
>>all seven volumes. I suppose an energetic reader will always be able to
>>deduce the original publication order by looking at the copyright dates.
>
> Couldn't they have a new author "touch up" the old books and
> then count copyright from the date of the re-write?
Knock it off, Eric.
--
Steve Coltrin spco...@omcl.org WWVBF?
"Whoever wrote it has a brain disorder, and should write more." - Ay Eye
David Cowie
>
> I appear to be one of the only people who didn't dislike the second and
> third Titan books.
>
liked them *then*.
--
David Cowie david_cowie at lineone dot net
Containment Failure + 75:41
Unknown
wrote:
> I bet you didn't buy the new and improved Hardy Boys in the 1980s.
>As I recall it begaun with a novel in which Frank or Joe's sweetie is
>murdered by Arab terrorists, inspiring them to go all Rambo.
Well, I was a bit beyond the Hardy Boys by 1980, but that isn't quite
the same thing. If the editor wishes to continue a series and bring
in a new writer after the original stops writing them (assuming the
rights, etc.) I've no problem. The new ones live or die by the new
writer. It's the changing of the original by other than the creator
that bothers me. Just a personal thing, I suppose.
Ricky
Christopher J. Henrich
<jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
> In article <3FB84AF4...@erols.com>,
> Brenda W. Clough <clo...@erols.com> wrote:
> >
> >Oh, and a live-action movie is in production. They are going to film in
> >New Zealand, the currently fashionable backdrop for filmic fantasy.
Who (or *what*) will play Aslan?
>
> Hmmm. A religion-in version or religion-out version. It seems to
> me there was some fuss over the Estate wanting to authorize non-religious
> Narnia books a while back.
I think that was either an n-th hand rumor, or somebody sending up a
trial balloon. If the latter, I think it was mercifully shot down.
--
Chris Henrich
"Try thinking of outrage as an addiction, and see if that helps." -- Nancy
Lebowitz
John M. Gamble
Oh lord, please don't start that here.
For a set of comments that cover the subject to excess, go to
google and search the rec.arts.comics.misc for Cerebus subjects.
Incidentally, a recent post mentioned an interview in a sunday
magazine insert in a Canadian newspaper. I have not read it
though and it apparently is not on-line.
--
-john
February 28 1997: Last day libraries could order catalogue cards
from the Library of Congress.
Timothy McDaniel
Fire3Sky <fire...@aol.com> wrote:
>I am currently proud of myself for giving up the Anita Blake series
Hey! If you want vampire and wereleopard pr0n, it's great! And if
you like long stretches of dialog.
Oddly, I still find the series attractive. I think I like the
glimpses of alien society. And the pr0n helps too. The last book was
all about vampire shit, so I think the next should be all about
shapeshifter shit.
>the TV show Smallville (which sucked last season - only John Glover
>as the delightfully evil Lionel Luther was worth watching).
This season's has had some fine stories and some sucky ones. Both
Luthors are eminently watchable now. I'd consider buying the Luthor
edition of Smallville DVDs: only including scenes with a Luthor or
that impact on a Luthor.
--
Tim McDaniel, tm...@panix.com; tm...@us.ibm.com is my work address
Brenda W. Clough
>"Brenda W. Clough" <clo...@erols.com> writes:
>
>
>>Justin Bacon wrote:
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>>There's a reason why the term "prequel" exists. (I just wish somebody would let
>>>the heirs of C.S. Lewis know.)
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>>The estate, having bobbled the ball by renumbering the books some time
>>ago, has decided to waffle the issue for ever by taking the numbers off
>>all seven volumes. I suppose an energetic reader will always be able to
>>deduce the original publication order by looking at the copyright dates.
>>
>>
>
>Have they now? That would be good news. I've been wanting to upgrade
>to a decent hardcover set, but I've been holding off because all the
>ones I can find are numbered in the wrong order.
>
>
I am told it is going to occur, but I don't know when. (And of course
everything depends upon the vagaries of the publisher.) Therefore, look
at the set before you buy. I should judge that just after the movie
version comes out would be an excellent time to shop.
Brenda W. Clough
>In article <3FB84AF4...@erols.com>,
>Brenda W. Clough <clo...@erols.com> wrote:
>
>
>>The estate, having bobbled the ball by renumbering the books some time
>>ago, has decided to waffle the issue for ever by taking the numbers off
>>all seven volumes. I suppose an energetic reader will always be able to
>>deduce the original publication order by looking at the copyright dates.
>>
>>
>
> Couldn't they have a new author "touch up" the old books and
>then count copyright from the date of the re-write?
>
>
There must be some rule about the percentage of change that creates a
'new' work. Just fussing with the semicolons probably would not suffice.
>
>
>>Oh, and a live-action movie is in production. They are going to film in
>>New Zealand, the currently fashionable backdrop for filmic fantasy.
>>
>>
>
> Hmmm. A religion-in version or religion-out version. It seems to
>me there was some fuss over the Estate wanting to authorize non-religious
>Narnia books a while back.
>
>
No word has leaked out about the scripts to date, but sooner or later
all will be revealed.
Brenda W. Clough
>In article <gp5irv0j3fl7u3lrq...@4ax.com>,
>Ricky Robbins <> wrote:
>
>
>>On 17 Nov 2003 08:43:14 -0500, jdni...@panix.com (James Nicoll)
>>wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>>The estate, having bobbled the ball by renumbering the books some time
>>>>ago, has decided to waffle the issue for ever by taking the numbers off
>>>>all seven volumes. I suppose an energetic reader will always be able to
>>>>deduce the original publication order by looking at the copyright dates.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Couldn't they have a new author "touch up" the old books and
>>>then count copyright from the date of the re-write?
>>>
>>>
>>I'd never buy them if I knew another writer had touched them up.
>>
>>
>>
> I bet you didn't buy the new and improved Hardy Boys in the 1980s.
>As I recall it begaun with a novel in which Frank or Joe's sweetie is
>murdered by Arab terrorists, inspiring them to go all Rambo.
>
>
>
>
Or have a look at the new editions of George MacDonald's Scottish
novels. Since the works are in public domain, the editors rewrote
extensively, losing all the Scottish dialect, and many of the
philosophical and theological discussions. They are now MacDonald Lite.
Brenda W. Clough
>In article <bpaj9i$rm0$1...@panix2.panix.com>, James Nicoll
><jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>>In article <3FB84AF4...@erols.com>,
>>Brenda W. Clough <clo...@erols.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Oh, and a live-action movie is in production. They are going to film in
>>>New Zealand, the currently fashionable backdrop for filmic fantasy.
>>>
>>>
>
>Who (or *what*) will play Aslan?
>
>
I suspect that CGI will be our friend here.
John Schilling
In that case, it's the new and improved Hardy Boys, and Nancy Drew, of
the 1950s, that are bothersome. No going Rambo all over Arab terrorists,
of course, but the *original* Boys, and Nancy, would occasionally use
a gun, drink something alcoholic, curse, fight, drive recklessly, and
otherwise sort of figure out how to become adults in the course of an
unusually adventurous adolescence.
In 1950, the publishing house assigned a new editor to the series, who
proceeded to have all the original stories rewritten to eliminate all
such subversive influences, so that proper girls and boys of the 1950s
would not be incited to any sort of impropriety.
And for fifty years, the bowdlerized versions were the only ones in
print. Eric Flint's tweaking gets some complaints here, deservedly
so, but it's *nothing* compared to what was done to the classic HB
and ND series.
--
*John Schilling * "Anything worth doing, *
*Member:AIAA,NRA,ACLU,SAS,LP * is worth doing for money" *
*Chief Scientist & General Partner * -13th Rule of Acquisition *
*White Elephant Research, LLC * "There is no substitute *
*schi...@spock.usc.edu * for success" *
*661-951-9107 or 661-275-6795 * -58th Rule of Acquisition *
Steve Coltrin
>> >Oh, and a live-action movie is in production. They are going to film in
>> >New Zealand, the currently fashionable backdrop for filmic fantasy.
>
> Who (or *what*) will play Aslan?
Ahmed Best.
Unknown
wrote:
>In that case, it's the new and improved Hardy Boys, and Nancy Drew, of
>the 1950s, that are bothersome. No going Rambo all over Arab terrorists,
>of course, but the *original* Boys, and Nancy, would occasionally use
>a gun, drink something alcoholic, curse, fight, drive recklessly, and
>otherwise sort of figure out how to become adults in the course of an
>unusually adventurous adolescence.
Were these new stories or "touch-ups" of the original stories that
were then re-released? As to the vintage, I still have the books so
I'll check. They were given to me by my father's secretary, part of a
box of books her son had outgrown. I don't remember alcohol, curses,
and so forth but it's been over thirty years. In either case,
interesting; thanks.
Ricky
Jon Meltzer
"Tweek" <no...@jose.com> wrote in message
news:Tj9ub.861$vF.8...@read2.cgocable.net...
He hates them. For further details, go to rec.arts.comics.misc and any
comics website.
Mark Atwood
> On 17 Nov 2003 16:03:25 -0800, schi...@spock.usc.edu (John Schilling)
> wrote:
>
> >In that case, it's the new and improved Hardy Boys, and Nancy Drew, of
> >the 1950s, that are bothersome. No going Rambo all over Arab terrorists,
> >of course, but the *original* Boys, and Nancy, would occasionally use
> >a gun, drink something alcoholic, curse, fight, drive recklessly, and
> >otherwise sort of figure out how to become adults in the course of an
> >unusually adventurous adolescence.
>
> Were these new stories or "touch-ups" of the original stories that
> were then re-released?
They are "touch-ups".
I recall reading some of my mother's original series ND books, and
comparing them to editions from the school library. More than once
entire sections and chapters, in addition to individual lines, were
removed.
--
Mark Atwood | When you do things right,
m...@pobox.com | people won't be sure you've done anything at all.
http://www.pobox.com/~mra
Joseph Nebus
Some comics web site -- I want to say it was Comic Book Resource's
``You'll All Be Sorry'' column, but their search engine tells me I don't
have permission to use it -- had a hysterically funny ``Dave Sim's Guide
To Dating Girls.'' I'm sorry I didn't save the URL.
Joseph Nebus
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Justin Bacon
>Ricky Robbins <> writes:
>> On 17 Nov 2003 16:03:25 -0800, schi...@spock.usc.edu (John Schilling)
>> wrote:
>>
>> >In that case, it's the new and improved Hardy Boys, and Nancy Drew, of
>> >the 1950s, that are bothersome. No going Rambo all over Arab terrorists,
>> >of course, but the *original* Boys, and Nancy, would occasionally use
>> >a gun, drink something alcoholic, curse, fight, drive recklessly, and
>> >otherwise sort of figure out how to become adults in the course of an
>> >unusually adventurous adolescence.
>>
>> Were these new stories or "touch-ups" of the original stories that
>> were then re-released?
>
>They are "touch-ups".
James Nicoll was originally talking about the Hardy Boys Case Files -- which
were an all-new series of novels commissioned in the '80s.
It is *also* true that the original Hardy Boys novels have been touched up.
Multiple times, actually.
Similarly, during the same time period, there were original Nancy Drew Case
Files and new touch-ups of the old Nancy Drew novels. There were also a number
of original Nancy Drew/Hardy Boy crossovers penned during this time period.
Justin Bacon
tria...@aol.com
Bradford Holden
> "Jon Meltzer" <jonNOSPA...@mindspring.com> writes:
>
> >"Tweek" <no...@jose.com> wrote in message
> >news:Tj9ub.861$vF.8...@read2.cgocable.net...
> >> : I think that that's a subset of "everyone is interested in the bees in
> >> : my bonnet." Ditto ditto being entranced by a particular political
> >> : theory, or theory of gender relations (see Sim, Dave).
> >>
> >> Could you please give some detail about Dave Sim's stance on women?
Go here, get an overview, move on.
http://www.zompist.com/bob17.html#2
--
Bradford Holden
Dan Goodman
news:nebusj.1...@vcmr-86.server.rpi.edu:
> "Jon Meltzer" <jonNOSPA...@mindspring.com> writes:
>
>>"Tweek" <no...@jose.com> wrote in message
>>news:Tj9ub.861$vF.8...@read2.cgocable.net...
>>> : I think that that's a subset of "everyone is interested in the
>>> : bees in my bonnet." Ditto ditto being entranced by a particular
>>> : political theory, or theory of gender relations (see Sim, Dave).
>>>
>>> Could you please give some detail about Dave Sim's stance on women?
>
>>He hates them. For further details, go to rec.arts.comics.misc and any
>>comics website.
>
http://www.theabsolute.net/misogyny/sim.html has these quotes, among
others:
"In one of those Poor Us studies for which the Emotional Female Void is
notorious, it was pointed out that after a divorce, the average male
standard of living rises... the average female standard of living
drops... I think the...explanation is that the excision of a five-to-six-
foot leech from the surface of a human body is going to have more of its
own blood in its own veins. Unless the leech finds another body, it is
going to go hungry."
"In labouring to fill the insatiable Void Need for material possessions
at home, his time and his energy and his spirit disappear into the
Vaginal Bottom Line of the workplace."
"The Male Light and the Female Void: Seminal Energy and Omnivorous
Parasite."
"If you look at her and see anything besides emptiness, fear and
emotional hunger, you are looking at the parts of yourself which have
been consumed to that point."
--
Dan Goodman
Journal http://dsgood.blogspot.com or
http://www.livejournal.com/users/dsgood/
Whatever you wish for me, may you have twice as much.
Justin Bacon
>"The Male Light and the Female Void: Seminal Energy and Omnivorous
>Parasite."
>
>"If you look at her and see anything besides emptiness, fear and
>emotional hunger, you are looking at the parts of yourself which have
>been consumed to that point."
The astonishing thing is that he is still quite capable of writing engaging,
believable female characters. I have no idea how the same guy who writes this
garbage can also create the endearing and loving character of Jaka. But,
apparently, he can.
Justin Bacon
tria...@aol.com
Jeff Walther
fire...@aol.com (Fire3Sky) wrote:
> My problem is that I don't believe the naysayers. Before reading the Anita
> Blake books, I asked for recommendations from this group - nearly
everyone said
> 'read the first two or three, then stop'.
>
> I read through part of the tenth book *ugh* "Narcissus in Chains" *ugh*.
>
> We should have a support group for those of us who just can't stop reading bad
> series.
The trick is to accept that you're just not going to get what you want no
matter what you do.
A series hooks one with various methods, the most common being, a desire
to know the rest of the story or to find out how things work out for
certain characters. There are some series where that desire just isn't
going to be fulfilled and if you can truly accept that, there's no point
in reading further. There are other series where there may be a payoff
eventually, but the cost of acquiring the payoff (slogging through putrid
novels) is too high. In my opinion The Wheel of Time has achieved the
latter category.
--
A friend will help you move. A real friend will help you move a body.
Jeff Walther
<ne...@misago.org> wrote:
> In article <N8Qtb.956$Re.9...@newshog.newsread.com>, Nancy Lebovitz
> <na...@unix5.netaxs.com> wrote:
> > Also, I don't think there's a consensus that _The Steel Beach_ and
> > _Golden Globe_ are evidence of massive deterioration. To put it another
> > way, *I* liked them. I agree that the second and third Titan books and
> > _Millenium_ were pretty bad.
>
> I appear to be one of the only people who didn't dislike the second and
> third Titan books.
>
> I have to read each one in sequence pretending the followups didn't
> happen, since each one veers off in a different direction, but I found
> them all enjoyable. Even the third.
It's been a very long time since I read them, but I think I actually liked
the third better than the first.
Leif Magnar Kj|nn|y
Christopher J. Henrich <chen...@monmouth.com> wrote:
>In article <bpaj9i$rm0$1...@panix2.panix.com>, James Nicoll
><jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
>
>> In article <3FB84AF4...@erols.com>,
>> Brenda W. Clough <clo...@erols.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >Oh, and a live-action movie is in production. They are going to film in
>> >New Zealand, the currently fashionable backdrop for filmic fantasy.
>
>Who (or *what*) will play Aslan?
Either Gollum or Jar-Jar Binks, I'd guess.
--
Leif Kjønnøy, Geek of a Few Trades. http://www.pvv.org/~leifmk
Disclaimer: Do not try this at home.
Void where prohibited by law.
Batteries not included.
Tweek
news:20031118014132...@mb-m07.aol.com...
Hmmm. A quick perusal leads me to believe he may have come out of a
relationship or two feeling like a sucker. Possibly his mom cheated on his
dad.
I met him once. He came to a high-school comic book convention I helped
organize. He drew Cerebus on the lid of one of my comic boxes. He doesn't
drive you know... we had to get him a limo to get him around that day.
A.M. Kuchling
> I recall reading some of my mother's original series ND books, and
> comparing them to editions from the school library. More than once
> entire sections and chapters, in addition to individual lines, were
> removed.
Leslie McFarlane was the original ghostwriter for the Hardy Boys books;
http://www.keeline.com/McFarlane/ has a list of the ones he wrote. In 1976
he wrote an amusing autobiography, "The Ghost of the Hardy Boys", and near
the end wrote wistfully of picking up a then-current book and looking at the
edits. Worst of all, Aunt Gertrude, his favorite character, had her rough
edges softened and appeared on fewer pages.
--amk
raycun
Jaka used to be an endearing and loving character, way back when. But
after the attack of the BrainEater she became a spoiled princess, who
had to wear a different outfit every day and couldn't pass a clothes
shop without buying it. The Jaka of Jaka's Story and Melmoth is not
the Jaka of Going Home. Not entirely coincidentally, The Great Sim
Meltdown happened between Melmoth and Going Home.
Ray
Justin Bacon
>Jaka used to be an endearing and loving character, way back when. But
>after the attack of the BrainEater she became a spoiled princess, who
>had to wear a different outfit every day and couldn't pass a clothes
>shop without buying it. The Jaka of Jaka's Story and Melmoth is not
>the Jaka of Going Home. Not entirely coincidentally, The Great Sim
>Meltdown happened between Melmoth and Going Home.
Well, the development of the clothes neurosis is a character blip, but it
doesn't really seem to tie into Sim's whole "female void" premise. Jaka is
still the primary prop for the relationship in GOING HOME. Cerebus is the one
who consistently comes off as emotionally needy. At least to my eyes.
Of course, [SPOILER] (the significance of "the kitchen knife incident") may be
significant here.
Melmoth is certainly the low point of the series.
Justin Bacon
tria...@aol.com
Martin Wisse
McDaniel) wrote:
>In article <kusdrvkve7guvrb5o...@4ax.com>,
>Brett O'Callaghan <brettoc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>anxious triffid <anxiousINFEAROFSPAM@anxioustriffid@fserve.co.uk>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>Are there any examples of writers who have been considered lost to
>>>the brain-eater only to make a triumphant return to form?
>>
>>Can't think of any. Possibly OSC, who has made at least a partial
>>return to form IMHO.
>
>Did John Varley's brain ever get eaten, or were the third Titan novel
>and the time-travel novel (Millenium?) just plain sucky?
I quite liked _Millennium_ myself; haven't read the third Titan novel
yet. Not nearly braineater territory.
Martin Wisse
--
As long as the unread stack stays at under 100 books it can't be considered
stockpiling. --Miriam Nadel (well, that's me screwed -ed)
Errol Cavit
news:3FB955ED...@erols.com...
> Christopher J. Henrich wrote:
>
> >In article <bpaj9i$rm0$1...@panix2.panix.com>, James Nicoll
> ><jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
> >
> >>In article <3FB84AF4...@erols.com>,
> >>Brenda W. Clough <clo...@erols.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>Oh, and a live-action movie is in production. They are going to film
in
> >>>New Zealand, the currently fashionable backdrop for filmic fantasy.
> >>>
> >
> >Who (or *what*) will play Aslan?
> >
>
> I suspect that CGI will be our friend here.
>
And the in-country ability to provide world-class CGI is one reason NZ is
'currently fashionable'. They have to do something with all those servers
that New Line paid for.
--
Errol Cavit | errol...@hotmail.com
I've heard a tape of collected kakapo noises, and it's almost impossible to
believe that it all just comes from a bird, or indeed any kind of animal.
Pink Floyd studio out-takes perhaps, but not a parrot.
Douglas Adams, _Last Chance to See_
Larry Smith
> Never read anything co-written by Gentry Lee.
THAT's an observation I wished I'd had before I tried to read any
of the later Rama books. "Gardens of Rama" was so bad I was close
to tears before I finished the book. I always have to finish the
book. I'm a masochist about it.
--
.-. .-. .---. .---. .-..-. | Experts in Linux/Unix: www.WildOpenSource.com
| |__ / | \| |-< | |-< > / | "Making the bazaar more commonplace"
`----'`-^-'`-'`-'`-'`-' `-' | Check out my new novel: "Cloud Realm" at:
home: www.smith-house.org | http://www.smith-house.org/books/list.html
David Tate
> Ricky Robbins <> writes:
> > On 17 Nov 2003 16:03:25 -0800, schi...@spock.usc.edu (John Schilling)
> > wrote:
> >
> > >In that case, it's the new and improved Hardy Boys, and Nancy Drew, of
> > >the 1950s, that are bothersome. No going Rambo all over Arab terrorists,
> > >of course, but the *original* Boys, and Nancy, would occasionally use
> > >a gun, drink something alcoholic, curse, fight, drive recklessly, and
> > >otherwise sort of figure out how to become adults in the course of an
> > >unusually adventurous adolescence.
> >
> > Were these new stories or "touch-ups" of the original stories that
> > were then re-released?
>
> They are "touch-ups".
There are some of both. I have a 1928 copy of THE GREAT AIRPORT
MYSTERY, which is recognizably the same story as the '70s edition of
the same title. However, my 1933 edition of THE MELTED COINS has
nothing but its title (and the main characters' names) in common with
the edition THE MELTED COINS I purchased in the '70s. The plots are
unrelated.
In general, the old ones were a lot better. (Grumble, grumble.)
David Tate
John Schilling
>On 17 Nov 2003 16:03:25 -0800, schi...@spock.usc.edu (John Schilling)
>wrote:
>>In that case, it's the new and improved Hardy Boys, and Nancy Drew, of
>>the 1950s, that are bothersome. No going Rambo all over Arab terrorists,
>>of course, but the *original* Boys, and Nancy, would occasionally use
>>a gun, drink something alcoholic, curse, fight, drive recklessly, and
>>otherwise sort of figure out how to become adults in the course of an
>>unusually adventurous adolescence.
>Were these new stories or "touch-ups" of the original stories that
>were then re-released?
"Touch-up" is an understatement, but yes. These were the same titles
and same plots as the originals, rewritten to the standards of the era
as an attempt to retcon the originals out of existence. Stories about
the sort of adventures adolescents would like to have, replaced by
stories about the sorts of adventures parents and schoolteachers would
like adolescents to imagine having.
>As to the vintage, I still have the books so I'll check. They were
>given to me by my father's secretary, part of a box of books her son
>had outgrown. I don't remember alcohol, curses, and so forth but it's
>been over thirty years. In either case, interesting; thanks.
Check the copyright page. If it's "only" been ~35 years, and you got
them from someone whose son had just recently outgrown them, odds are
you got the late 50s rewrites. There will be nothing to indicate that
they are anything but a new print run of the originals, but they will
be anything but.
But if there are *no* dates past, let's see, 1958, in the publishing
history, you've got the classics.
Larry Smith
> In article <20031116012536...@mb-m05.aol.com>,
> Fire3Sky <fire...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>>I am currently proud of myself for giving up the Anita Blake series
>
> Hey! If you want vampire and wereleopard pr0n, it's great! And if
> you like long stretches of dialog.
>
> Oddly, I still find the series attractive. I think I like the
> glimpses of alien society. And the pr0n helps too. The last book was
> all about vampire shit, so I think the next should be all about
> shapeshifter shit.
I'm of two minds about the stories. The porn leaves me cold,
though I wonder if Hamilton is trying to see how pornographic
she can get and still stay on the Times bestseller list. But
the characters are still intriguing. Though I do think a
thoroughly ruthless editor could improve the series immensely.
There is also a morbid fascination in seeing how screwed up
Anita can get...
Larry Smith
> James Nicoll wrote:
>> Couldn't they have a new author "touch up" the old books and then
>> count copyright from the date of the re-write?
>
> There must be some rule about the percentage of change that creates a
> 'new' work. Just fussing with the semicolons probably would not suffice.
Nope. Big fat grey area. If anyone bitches, a court gets
to decide.
Larry Smith
> Who (or *what*) will play Aslan?
Burt Lahr. Too bad he's dead. But hey, that never stopped
Fred Astair from dancing with a vacuum cleaner...
Tim McDaniel
> I do think a thoroughly ruthless editor could improve the series
> immensely.
You said it, brother. I just reread _Narcissus in Chains_. I
realized afterwards that, except for the intro chapters at the club,
the main action takes place over three nights and two days. It
includes a major fight, healing via magic repeatedly, rescuing torture
victims, disciplining via lead bullets, sex and sex and blood and sex,
and then a minor war ... and it was still ponderous.
> There is also a morbid fascination in seeing how screwed up Anita
> can get...
She condemns Richard for holding to obsolete and counterproductive
ideals while clinging desperately to her own obsolete and
counterproductive ideals.
--
Tim McDaniel, tm...@panix.com; tm...@us.ibm.com is my work address
Peter Meilinger
>In that case, it's the new and improved Hardy Boys, and Nancy Drew, of
>the 1950s, that are bothersome. No going Rambo all over Arab terrorists,
>of course, but the *original* Boys, and Nancy, would occasionally use
>a gun, drink something alcoholic, curse, fight, drive recklessly, and
>otherwise sort of figure out how to become adults in the course of an
>unusually adventurous adolescence.
Nancy Drew used to curse and drink? Good lord, my old crush is
returning with a vengeance...
Pete
Mark Atwood
She would pack a gun too.
Pity that she was so racist and snobbishly class-concious, tho...
Manny Olds
She had a gun, too.
--
Manny Olds (old...@pobox.com) of Riverdale Park, Maryland, USA
"Feel free to provide authoritative references; in the meantime, you
won't mind if we conclude that you're simply making this up." -- Ian York
Peter Meilinger
>Peter Meilinger <mell...@bu.edu> writes:
>> Nancy Drew used to curse and drink? Good lord, my old crush is
>> returning with a vengeance...
>She would pack a gun too.
Stop it! You're killing me, here!
>Pity that she was so racist and snobbishly class-concious, tho...
Ah. Yeah, that puts a damper on things. Probably for the best.
Pete
Unknown
wrote:
>Check the copyright page. If it's "only" been ~35 years, and you got
>them from someone whose son had just recently outgrown them, odds are
>you got the late 50s rewrites. There will be nothing to indicate that
>they are anything but a new print run of the originals, but they will
>be anything but.
Well, it may be a moot point from my perspective because the books
were not where I had thought they were. I have a vague recollection
of my wife mentioning we should give them away. Perhaps in a weak
moment, after receiving a new order of books, I made a mistake. 8)
But they may turn up yet.
In any case, there were a couple of _Brains Benton Mysteries_ still
there that I got along with the Hardy Boy's books (and others) and
they are copyright 1960 and 1961. So the _Hardy Boys_ books were
probably the late 50s rewrites.
Ricky
Unknown
<la...@wildopensource.com> wrote:
>I always have to finish the
>book. I'm a masochist about it.
That used to be my rule until I realized I'm not living forever and
there are already lot of books I'll never get to read. My new rule is
if it doesn't hold my interest I read the last two or there pages and
move on to the next one.
Ricky
Jerry Brown
<clo...@erols.com> wrote:
>Christopher J. Henrich wrote:
>
>>In article <bpaj9i$rm0$1...@panix2.panix.com>, James Nicoll
>><jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>In article <3FB84AF4...@erols.com>,
>>>Brenda W. Clough <clo...@erols.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Oh, and a live-action movie is in production. They are going to film in
>>>>New Zealand, the currently fashionable backdrop for filmic fantasy.
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>Who (or *what*) will play Aslan?
>>
>>
>
>
>I suspect that CGI will be our friend here.
...with Sean Connery's voice, no doubt.
Jerry Brown
--
A cat may look at a king
(but probably won't bother)
Konrad Gaertner
I'd put it in the former category myself. Book 10 didn't even try
to make sense.
--KG
Konrad Gaertner
>
> Konrad Gaertner wrote:
> >The only one that comes to my mind is Robert Asprin, and I wouldn't
> >call him recovered yet....
>
> Have you read the most recent Myth Inc. book? I've found the Myth Inc. books to
> be generally atrocious, and I just don't have the heart to try it given
> Asprin's recent track record.
I've read the recent ones (_Myth-ion Improbable_ and _Something
M.Y.T.H. Inc._), and found them a bit slight, but still much better
than _Sweet Myth-tery of Life_.
> (Although I'm willing to blame at least some his
> shortcomings on his co-authors. The third Phule's book, for example, was
> clearly an example of an Asprin outline fleshed out by a co-author without any
> sense of character or comedy.)
Yes, the co-authorer Phule books (there's two of them) are dire.
> I've also seen something called MYTH ALLIANCES,
I need to look that up; I know that title has already been used for
an omnibus (bookclub I think) of earlier Myth books.
> but I'm very hesitant to look at a Myth book which (a) a major publisher isn't
> touching,
Meisha Merlin bought all the rights from the original publisher,
Donning/Starblaze. Ace only does the massmarket editions, including
the two already published by MM.
> and (b) he's writing as a collaboration.
True, that is generally a warning sign, though at least it's not
the Phule co-author.
--KG
David Tate
> Ricky Robbins <> writes:
>
> >On 17 Nov 2003 16:03:25 -0800, schi...@spock.usc.edu (John Schilling)
> >wrote:
>
> >>In that case, it's the new and improved Hardy Boys, and Nancy Drew, of
> >>the 1950s, that are bothersome. No going Rambo all over Arab terrorists,
> >>of course, but the *original* Boys, and Nancy, would occasionally use
> >>a gun, drink something alcoholic, curse, fight, drive recklessly, and
> >>otherwise sort of figure out how to become adults in the course of an
> >>unusually adventurous adolescence.
>
> >Were these new stories or "touch-ups" of the original stories that
> >were then re-released?
>
> "Touch-up" is an understatement, but yes. These were the same titles
> and same plots as the originals, rewritten to the standards of the era
> as an attempt to retcon the originals out of existence.
As I noted elsewhere, "same plots" was not always true. I'm not sure
exactly when the original plots were eradicated, in those cases where
they were, but it certainly happened.
> >As to the vintage, I still have the books so I'll check. They were
> >given to me by my father's secretary, part of a box of books her son
> >had outgrown. I don't remember alcohol, curses, and so forth but it's
> >been over thirty years.
I don't remember alcohol or cursing either. I do remember a lot of
free time, a remarkable assortment of toys (roadsters, motorboats,
ice-boats, etc.) for a family living on one detective's income, and
very little regard for property boundaries. :-)
David Tate
Justin Bacon
>I've read the recent ones (_Myth-ion Improbable_ and _Something
>M.Y.T.H. Inc._), and found them a bit slight, but still much better
>than _Sweet Myth-tery of Life_.
I liked Myth-ion Improbable. It wasn't as good as the early stuff, but was
still a decent read. I believe Something M.Y.T.H. Inc. is the one I can't quite
convince myself to buy.
>> I've also seen something called MYTH ALLIANCES,
>
>I need to look that up; I know that title has already been used for
>an omnibus (bookclub I think) of earlier Myth books.
This is the one I'm talking about:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1592220096/102-6596244-73881
29?v=glance
And poking around Amazon I also see Myth-Told Tales:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1592220010/qid=1069224281/sr
=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/102-6596244-7388129?v=glance&s=books
>Meisha Merlin bought all the rights from the original publisher,
>Donning/Starblaze. Ace only does the massmarket editions, including
>the two already published by MM.
Well, that makes me feel a little better. I though the Donning/Starblaze
editions had simply stopped. I hadn't seen any MM volumes prior to Myth
Alliances.
>> (Although I'm willing to blame at least some his
>> shortcomings on his co-authors. The third Phule's book, for example, was
>> clearly an example of an Asprin outline fleshed out by a co-author without
any
>> sense of character or comedy.)
>
>Yes, the co-authorer Phule books (there's two of them) are dire.
After throwing the third book, A PHULE AND HIS MONEY, against the wall after
only two dozen pages due to its sheer atrociousness (something I can't recall
ever doing before), I found it oddly distrubing that the fourth book was called
PHULE ME TWICE. I swear someone is sending the message "Don't Buy These
Books!".
Justin Bacon
tria...@aol.com
Urban Fredriksson
Tina Hall <T.H...@railroad.robin.de> wrote:
>I liked the last two Dune books best (#5 and #6 incase there's
>any doubt, or I've missed any).
I think I agree. Would have preferred them to not be part
of the series though.
--
Urban Fredriksson http://www.canit.se/%7Egriffon/
To get rid of an enemy, make him a friend.
raycun
> Raycun wrote:
> >Jaka used to be an endearing and loving character, way back when. But
> >after the attack of the BrainEater she became a spoiled princess, who
> >had to wear a different outfit every day and couldn't pass a clothes
> >shop without buying it. The Jaka of Jaka's Story and Melmoth is not
> >the Jaka of Going Home. Not entirely coincidentally, The Great Sim
> >Meltdown happened between Melmoth and Going Home.
>
> Well, the development of the clothes neurosis is a character blip, but it
> doesn't really seem to tie into Sim's whole "female void" premise. Jaka is
> still the primary prop for the relationship in GOING HOME. Cerebus is the one
> who consistently comes off as emotionally needy. At least to my eyes.<<
Yeah, but I suspect that if you were to see the world through the Eyes
of Sim you'd see a Male Light seeking to return to its unspoilt
masculine nature (by returning home), realising that its being slowed
down by a Female Void (with its all-consuming need for new clothes and
other material possessions), and cutting it loose. Cerebus' emotional
neediness (to the extent that it's a deliberate creation of Sim's) is
due to his Light having been partially consumed by The Void.
> Of course, [SPOILER] (the significance of "the kitchen knife incident") may be
> significant here.
That's true.
> Melmoth is certainly the low point of the series.
I think you've misspelled Reads.
Ray
Mike Williams
> In article <MSGID_2=3A2437=2F22.13=40fidonet...@fidonet.org>,
> Tina Hall <T.H...@railroad.robin.de> wrote:
>
>> I liked the last two Dune books best (#5 and #6 incase there's
>> any doubt, or I've missed any).
>
> I think I agree. Would have preferred them to not be part
> of the series though.
They supposedly were meant to culminate with a 7th title. Frank's extensive
notes for this title have turned up, and Brian (with Kevin) plans to work on
that after the Butlerian Jihad is done.
Nancy Lebovitz
raycun <ray...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>Yeah, but I suspect that if you were to see the world through the Eyes
>of Sim you'd see a Male Light seeking to return to its unspoilt
>masculine nature (by returning home), realising that its being slowed
>down by a Female Void (with its all-consuming need for new clothes and
>other material possessions), and cutting it loose. Cerebus' emotional
>neediness (to the extent that it's a deliberate creation of Sim's) is
>due to his Light having been partially consumed by The Void.
Does Sim recommned homosexuality? If not, why not?
--
Nancy Lebovitz na...@netaxs.com www.nancybuttons.com
Now, with bumper stickers
Using your turn signal is not "giving information to the enemy"
Nix
> In article <Xns94351E6195481an...@195.92.193.157>,
> anxious triffid <anxiousINFEAROFSPAM@anxioustriffid@fserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Are there any examples of writers who have been considered lost to the brain-
>> eater only to make a triumphant return to form?
>
> of it) I'm not fond of, but he was certainly Back by Man Plus and Gateway.
Yes, but by the time of Mars Plus he'd gone again. :(
--
`Me, I want exploding spaceships and pulverized worlds and clashes of
billion-year-old empires *and* competently written sentences.'
--- Matt Austern
raycun
> In article <b147c2a9.03111...@posting.google.com>,
> raycun <ray...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >Yeah, but I suspect that if you were to see the world through the Eyes
> >of Sim you'd see a Male Light seeking to return to its unspoilt
> >masculine nature (by returning home), realising that its being slowed
> >down by a Female Void (with its all-consuming need for new clothes and
> >other material possessions), and cutting it loose. Cerebus' emotional
> >neediness (to the extent that it's a deliberate creation of Sim's) is
> >due to his Light having been partially consumed by The Void.
>
> Does Sim recommned homosexuality? If not, why not?
No, because to be gay is to be feminine. (Not all men have what it
takes to be Creative LIghts, and some women are male enough to avoid
being Sucking Voids).
Instead, Sim recommends complete sexual abstinence.
Ray
(In the interests of fairness, I should mount some kind of partial
defence of Sim. When he started Cerebus, more than 25 years ago,
creator-owned, self-published comics were almost unheard of. He
decided early on that the only way it could possibly succeed was for
him to be absolutely ruthless with himself, and stick to his monthly
publishing schedule. Comics have to (or had to) come out on time and
regularly if they're to keep their audience, and that audience is only
partly the reader - its largely the comics retailer who buys on a
no-returns basis, and is accordingly conservative, with little
tolerance for books that don't appear when they're supposed to.
Especially black and white comics about sword-wielding aardvarks.
So, he had to work very hard to keep to his schedule. This meant
ignoring other demands on his time. One major source of such demands
is a Significant Other.
Over time, after spending too much of his time crouched over a drawing
board or organising printing, distribution, and publicity, resenting
every interruption, Sim snapped. About 15 years into the 25 year run
came the infamous issue 186, where (in large text pieces that crowded
out most of the actual comic) he revealed the Truth that he had
discovered. Men are the creative forces in the universe, and women are
voids who can do nothing but steal men's creative power. You've heard
the saying about the pram in the hall being the enemy of creativity?
There's some truth to it. There's not so much truth left when you
replace prams with women and turn the dial up to
six-million-and-eleven, but Dave did it anyway.
Early Cerebus, particularly 'High Society' and 'Church and State' is
brilliant. Later Cerebus (the series is due to end next year) is still
the work of an amazingly creative comics artist, but is also
completely deranged. And not in a William Burroughs/Hunter S. kind of
entertainingly crazy way. Interesting stuff still happens, and the
execution is often wonderful, but its impossible to avoid the
realisation that Sim has lost all perspective, all distance from his
life and his work. There's a widespread feeling that when Sim
completes issue 300, the target he set for himself all those years
ago, he may well kill himself because he'll feel he has nothing left
to in his life.)
Tina Hall
> In article <MSGID_2=3A2437=2F22.13=40fidonet_1e844b10@fidonet.
> org>, Tina Hall <T.H...@railroad.robin.de> wrote:
> >I liked the last two Dune books best (#5 and #6 incase
> >there's any doubt, or I've missed any).
>
> I think I agree. Would have preferred them to not be part
> of the series though.
What difference does it make?
Tina
James Nicoll
raycun <ray...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>(In the interests of fairness, I should mount some kind of partial
>defence of Sim. When he started Cerebus, more than 25 years ago,
>creator-owned, self-published comics were almost unheard of. He
>decided early on that the only way it could possibly succeed was for
>him to be absolutely ruthless with himself, and stick to his monthly
>publishing schedule.
As I recall, this realization took until the mid-1980s. I
definitely recall some missed release dates back then. It also took
some time for Aardvard-Vanaheim to hit on viable policies wrt to stores:
I remember in the 1980s when I looked into carrying the "phonebooks" [1]
the discount to stores was 20%, not worth the investment unless turnover
was very fast.
For what it's worth, in person Sim seems entirely lucid. When
Harry from Now and Then died, Sim was at the wake [2] and was perfectly
pleasant, even to the sucking voids who also attended the wake.
James Nicoll
1: Thick compilations of Cerebus issues.
2: Now and Then is one of the oldest direct sales comic book stores
in NorAm, and Harry played a critical role in the viability of Cerebus
in the early days.
--
It's amazing how the waterdrops form: a ball of water with an air bubble
inside it and inside of that one more bubble of water. It looks so beautiful
[...]. I realized something: the world is interesting for the man who can
be surprised. -Valentin Lebedev-
Alexander Kay
>In article <b147c2a9.03111...@posting.google.com>,
>raycun <ray...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>Yeah, but I suspect that if you were to see the world through the Eyes
>>of Sim you'd see a Male Light seeking to return to its unspoilt
>>masculine nature (by returning home), realising that its being slowed
>>down by a Female Void (with its all-consuming need for new clothes and
>>other material possessions), and cutting it loose. Cerebus' emotional
>>neediness (to the extent that it's a deliberate creation of Sim's) is
>>due to his Light having been partially consumed by The Void.
>Does Sim recommned homosexuality? If not, why not?
Nope. Partially on religious grounds. Partially because it's still based
on Emotion, not Reason. As near as I can tell, he's passionately opposed
to anything having to do with Emotion (logical disjunct fully intended on
my part).
Alexx
Opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily those of my employers.
alexx@carolingiaSPAMBL@CK.org http://www.panix.com/~alexx
Smile if you *are* Jesus.
[Seen on a Nancy Button, na...@genie.slhs.udel.edu]