~!!! GHARLANE EXPOSED !!!~
Terry L. Smith
The Bimbo has a thrilling announcement for y'all, so listen up.
You better get those Hugo Nominating Ballots in before Saturday, the
16th of March. Midnight Friday is the last time your postmark will
be valid. So hurry it up now...
[ See previous post "**!** Hugo Nominations Deadline **!**"
for serious details ]
And *don't forget that "electronic media writing" is perfectly
acceptable when considering someone for nomination as "Best Fan
Writer."
You got five nominations in each category. Use 'em well. As for
"Best Fan Writer," *this* year, I'm going to fill out all *five*
spots. And *this* year, they're *all* gonna be people who (at
least primarily) do their "Fan Writing" on the Internet.
Here are four writers I am considering. I will nominate THREE
of them for sure. < g > (maybe all four ... maybe not...)
1: Gary Farber - always popping up over on rec.arts.sf.fandom.
often funny, sometimes informative, usually interesting
2: Nancy Lebovitz - Interesting comments, frequently answers
requests for help, pertinent remarks
3: Rick Cook - Okay, he's a pro. But he *also* writes as a
"fan." And I am always intrigued by what he has to say
** and for those who were wondering just *what* the title of
this article has to do with it's *content*... **
4: "Gharlane of Eddore" - That's right. The Evil One. Sure,
he irritates me sometimes. But he's as informative as anyone
writing in the genre today, he is sometimes *very* funny, and
he, like Nancy, very often promptly and courteously answers
fans' requests for information. I'm sure *considering* him
for a nomination...
[ shhhhhhh.... don't want mr. eddore to *hear* this...
wouldn't it be a *scream* if he got nominated and then **won**?
gharlane *exposed*!!! would the evil one *dare* accept
his hugo??? stay tuned ... and vote ...for further
developments. (film at eleven, after the awards.)
and now I gotta run *real fast* for that Bomb Shelter, folks,
before GoE realizes what's been *done* to him...!!!
See you all there! < chortle >
( and think about who you're gonna nominate, 'kay? )
"'I like a girl with spirit,' he said, incorrectly as it
turned out."
- Terry Pratchett
- 'By For Now -
M.Q.S., "Official Bimbo" for Baltimore; (SCOoF)
p.s. - I want to BE there when they carry in that Disembodied
Brain in a Jar for "The Ceremonies!" <giggle>
--
*--------------------------------------------------------------------*
| M.Q.S. c/o T.L.S | "Don't play with that! You have no idea where |
| tls...@netcom.com | it's been..." -- Speaker to Elevators |
*--------------------------------------------------------------------*
Gary Farber
> Here are four writers I am considering. I will nominate THREE
> of them for sure. < g > (maybe all four ... maybe not...)
>
> 1: Gary Farber - always popping up over on rec.arts.sf.fandom.
> often funny, sometimes informative, usually interesting
Goshwowboyohboy, thanks. This is very perceptive of you. :-) You are
clearly a person of keen discrimination, taste, and intelligence. I'll
bet you also have a sensitive fannish face. (I write for fanzines as
well, not to mention for money: practice helps.)
<snip>
> [ shhhhhhh.... don't want mr. eddore to *hear* this...
That's "Mr. *of* Eddore" to *you*. Careful, or he'll throw a mental bolt
at you that will singe your socks off. I think he's been oppressing
Delgonians, but don't tell anyone.
-- Gary Farber Middlemiss gfa...@panix.com
Copyright 1996 for DUFF Brooklyn, NY, USA
Stephanie Mortimer
Smith) wrote:
> You better get those Hugo Nominating Ballots in before Saturday, the
> 16th of March. Midnight Friday is the last time your postmark will
> be valid. So hurry it up now...
>
>
> And *don't forget that "electronic media writing" is perfectly
> acceptable when considering someone for nomination as "Best Fan
> Writer."
>
> Here are four writers I am considering.
>
> 1: Gary Farber - always popping up over on rec.arts.sf.fandom.
> often funny, sometimes informative, usually interesting
>
> 2: Nancy Lebovitz - Interesting comments, frequently answers
> requests for help, pertinent remarks
>
> 3: Rick Cook - Okay, he's a pro. But he *also* writes as a
> "fan." And I am always intrigued by what he has to say
>
> 4: "Gharlane of Eddore" - That's right. The Evil One. Sure,
> he irritates me sometimes. But he's as informative as anyone
> writing in the genre today, he is sometimes *very* funny, and
> he, like Nancy, very often promptly and courteously answers
> fans' requests for information. I'm sure *considering* him
> for a nomination...
Yes - especially Gharlane! You know, I've heard that Harlan Ellison has
complained that usenet is full of misinformation, but Gharlane has
singlehandedly (or whatever) improved the signal to noise ratio. Gharlane
not only gently corrects posters who have not done their homework, but he
does it with style.
As mentioned elsewhere, don't forget these other talented usenet writers:
(copied from previous post - sorry I forget who listed them originally).
Seth Breidbart
"Ahasuerus the Wandering Jew"
Evelyn C. Leeper
Chaz Baden
Jay Denebeim
Arthur D. Hlavaty
Patrick Nielsen Hayden
rich brown a.k.a. DrGafia
Rick Cook
Lawrence Watt-Evans
>
> p.s. - I want to BE there when they carry in that Disembodied
> Brain in a Jar for "The Ceremonies!" (giggle deleted)
Me too!
>
By the way - I have a nominating sheet for the Hugos but I had decided not
to vote since there are so many good works out there and I haven't read
even a small fraction of them. Can anyone suggest the best way to keep
up-to-date on what is being done in the field? Also, could this newsgroup
be considered a fanzine?
--
Brett Middleton
[re: Gharlane's current hobbies]
>That's "Mr. *of* Eddore" to *you*. Careful, or he'll throw a mental bolt
>at you that will singe your socks off. I think he's been oppressing
>Delgonians, but don't tell anyone.
When did "Sliders" fandom pick *that* name? B-)
Brett
*SLMW 1.0* Do not disturb. Already disturbed.
Raymond Francis Fitzpatrick
> On Tue, 12 Mar 1996, Terry L. Smith wrote:
> > 1: Gary Farber - always popping up over on rec.arts.sf.fandom.
> > often funny, sometimes informative, usually interesting
>
> Goshwowboyohboy, thanks. This is very perceptive of you. :-) You are
> clearly a person of keen discrimination, taste, and intelligence. I'll
Intelligence:Yes.
Taste: I'll have to get back to you on that. What are you doing Sat
night, Miss Bimbeaux?
[duck]
Sleeping vertically,
DorMouse
Gary Farber
: By the way - I have a nominating sheet for the Hugos but I had decided not
: to vote since there are so many good works out there and I haven't read
: even a small fraction of them.
Very few people indeed read all the good sf published these days,
whatever your metric for "good sf" is. It makes sense to nominate that
which you think is truly of high quality, and then read the five nominees
in each category when the final ballot is issued. Five works in each
fiction category is not an excessive load to read.
: Can anyone suggest the best way to keep
: up-to-date on what is being done in the field?
Subscribing to "Science Fiction Chronicle" and "Locus" is one good start,
of course, if you have no other sources. Read rec.arts.sf.written if all
else fails. Bring a filter and plenty of patience. Sarcastic wit is
optional.
: Also, could this newsgroup be considered a fanzine?
You are cross-posting to three newsgroups, but in any case, though it
would be up to the Hugo Subcommittee to make a ruling (David Bratman and
Seth Goldberg this year, I believe), I would argue that the answer is
"no." I doubt David and Seth would disagree, though I haven't asked
them. Newsgroups don't meet any of the Constitutional requirements, and
are certainly not edited. Who would you propose accept such a reward,
assuming David and Seth were struck by brain fever and ruled that newsgroups
were eligible?
--
tkoren
< way big snip>
> p.s. - I want to BE there when they carry in that Disembodied
> Brain in a Jar for "The Ceremonies!" <giggle>
Your having way way to much fun with this :-)
Liav
Matt Hickman
>
>And *don't forget that "electronic media writing" is perfectly
>acceptable when considering someone for nomination as "Best Fan
>Writer."
>1: Gary Farber - always popping up over on rec.arts.sf.fandom.
> often funny, sometimes informative, usually interesting
After starting the "A Heinlein Anecdote" thread, Faber deserves
something, but don't you think it is "sending the wrong message"
to give him a Hugo? 8-)
Matt Hickman bh...@chevron.com TANSTAAFL!
OS/2 Systems Specialist, Chevron Information Technologies Co.
Thorby, my skinny and retarded brother -- I think you
were dropped on your head. But sorry as your are, I love
you for the fumbling grace with which you wipe the drool
off your chin. (Fritz Krausa)
- Robert A. Heinlein _Citizen of the Galaxy_
Bruce Welch
[snip]
: ** and for those who were wondering just *what* the title of
:this article has to do with it's *content*... **
:
:4: "Gharlane of Eddore" - That's right. The Evil One. Sure,
: he irritates me sometimes. But he's as informative as anyone
: writing in the genre today, he is sometimes *very* funny, and
: he, like Nancy, very often promptly and courteously answers
: fans' requests for information. I'm sure *considering* him
: for a nomination...
:
: [ shhhhhhh.... don't want mr. eddore to *hear* this...
: wouldn't it be a *scream* if he got nominated and then **won**?
: gharlane *exposed*!!! would the evil one *dare* accept
: his hugo??? stay tuned ... and vote ...for further
: developments. (film at eleven, after the awards.)
:
:and now I gotta run *real fast* for that Bomb Shelter, folks,
:before GoE realizes what's been *done* to him...!!!
:
Having played the "Gharlane identity game", I hold out what may be your
only hope of survival - adopt a cat.
--
this signature being renovated ... excuse the mess
tkoren
> By the way - I have a nominating sheet for the Hugos but I had decided not
> to vote since there are so many good works out there and I haven't read
> even a small fraction of them. Can anyone suggest the best way to keep
> up-to-date on what is being done in the field?
Quit your job, lock your doors, rip out your phones, don't eat, sleep or do anything
else but read sf :) If you follow my advice you'll probally be able to read a good
percent of the stuff out there. Of course it's not the greatest thing for your health.
Liav.
Terry L. Smith
: On Tue, 12 Mar 1996, Gary Farber wrote:
: > On Tue, 12 Mar 1996, Terry L. Smith wrote:
: > > 1: Gary Farber - always popping up over on rec.arts.sf.fandom.
: > > often funny, sometimes informative, usually interesting
: >
: > Goshwowboyohboy, thanks. This is very perceptive of you. :-) You are
: > clearly a person of keen discrimination, taste, and intelligence. I'll
: Intelligence:Yes.
: Taste: I'll have to get back to you on that. What are you doing Sat
: night, Miss Bimbeaux?
Why do you ask?
What did you have in mind?
I'll probably go to an SF gathering... Where I may acquire a new
Fiance. I think I may have time for one before it's *my* turn
to re-decorate Roger's House. I'll have to check my Fiance Log
and see.
And BTW, it's never too late for a Blond to start acquiring
Fiancees. You should escort a different Fiancee to every Con
you attend, Mickers. This will either Greatly Enhance or
Ruin Completely your Reputation. Or both.
: [duck]
Canard.
.
: Sleeping vertically,
: DorMouse
Huh? Did I miss something there? I thought those Mimbari beds were
just *tilted*...
"You must _not_ forget the suspenders, Best Beloved."
- Rudyard Kipling
- 'By For Now -
- M.Q.S., "Official Bimbo" for Baltimore; (SCOoF)
--
tkoren
>
> On Tue, 12 Mar 1996, Terry L. Smith wrote:
>
> > of them for sure. < g > (maybe all four ... maybe not...)
> >
> > often funny, sometimes informative, usually interesting
>
> Goshwowboyohboy, thanks. This is very perceptive of you. :-) You are
> clearly a person of keen discrimination, taste, and intelligence. I'll
> well, not to mention for money: practice helps.)
>
> <snip>
>
>
> at you that will singe your socks off. I think he's been oppressing
> Delgonians, but don't tell anyone.
Really, can *"Mr. *of* Eddore"* do that through a phone line? I thought you
have to have a transblaster sighted on the person &/or a toe nail cliping :)
Liav.
Raymond Francis Fitzpatrick
>
> Really, can *"Mr. *of* Eddore"* do that through a phone line? I thought you
> have to have a transblaster sighted on the person &/or a toe nail cliping :)
> Liav.
Some sneaky bastards help too.
MFinn
(Somebody, anybody...get Cook do finish the damn series? :} )
Raymond Francis Fitzpatrick
> Raymond Francis Fitzpatrick (fi...@jove.acs.unt.edu) wrote:
> : Intelligence:Yes.
> : Taste: I'll have to get back to you on that. What are you doing Sat
> : night, Miss Bimbeaux?
>
> Why do you ask?
>
> What did you have in mind?
*slurp*
>
> I'll probably go to an SF gathering... Where I may acquire a new
> Fiance. I think I may have time for one before it's *my* turn
> to re-decorate Roger's House. I'll have to check my Fiance Log
> and see.
>
Marry me.
*there*
> And BTW, it's never too late for a Blond to start acquiring
> Fiancees. You should escort a different Fiancee to every Con
> you attend, Mickers. This will either Greatly Enhance or
> Ruin Completely your Reputation. Or both.
>
Fiancee? Well, I have been known to propose. Of course, I was being
massaged or fed chocolate at the time.
(Hmmm. Just noticed how closely related fiancee & finances were realted,
spelling wise)
>
> : [duck]
>
> Canard.
>
Cantard.
> .
> : Sleeping vertically,
> : DorMouse
>
>
> Huh? Did I miss something there? I thought those Mimbari beds were
> just *tilted*...
>
And what do the Minbari believe sleeping vertically does?
*adjusts her glasses*
>
> "You must _not_ forget the suspenders, Best Beloved."
> - Rudyard Kipling
>
I'm helping this girl I'm sorta dating move this weekend. I find some
repelling gear under the bed. I made SURE it was repelling gear,
considering where she stashed it. Checked the ceiling for hooks, too.
Pining away but keep meeting lumberjacks,
Mickers
Gharlane of Eddore
Raymond Francis Fitzpatrick <fi...@jove.acs.unt.edu> writes:
>
....<deletia>
>
> I'm helping this girl I'm sorta dating move this weekend. I find some
> repelling gear under the bed. I made SURE it was repelling gear,
> considering where she stashed it. Checked the ceiling for hooks, too.
>
For Ghreat Ghrotty Ghu's sake, the word is "rappelle."
"Rappelling."
I know that the loons and retards who like to climb up hard rock faces
and fall back down didn't graduate from sixth grade and don't know the
difference between "repel" and "rappelle," but you MIGHT want to find
out what the two different words mean before you go out in public
with a computer terminal again.
I *presumed* you were discussing "repelling" things under her bed
until you started talking about hooks in the ceiling, and realized
that the imputed absence of hooks implied that you were probably talking
about "rappelling gear" instead.
In other words, your lack of attention to spelling communicated something
far different than you'd intended, because you didn't know what words
you were trying to use.
Good luck on achieving some familiarity with English before you attempt
to post again.....
Francis A. Ney, Jr.
> (Somebody, anybody...get Cook do finish the damn series? :} )
He is, he is. One sentence at a time between bolt tightenings, I understand.
---
Frank Ney WV/EMT-B VA/EMT-A N4ZHG LPWV NRA(L) GOA CCRKBA JPFO
Sponsor, BATF Abuse page http://www.access.digex.net/~croaker/batfabus.html
West Virginia Coordinator, Libertarian Second Amendment Caucus
"[E]lections amount to no more than choosing between the scum that floats to
the top of the barrel and the dregs that settle to the bottom."
- L. Neil Smith
Francis A. Ney, Jr.
> I'm helping this girl I'm sorta dating move this weekend. I find some
> repelling gear under the bed. I made SURE it was repelling gear,
> considering where she stashed it. Checked the ceiling for hooks, too.
ROTFLMAO!
Raymond Francis Fitzpatrick
> In <Pine.SOL.3.91.960318...@jove.acs.unt.edu>
> Raymond Francis Fitzpatrick <fi...@jove.acs.unt.edu> writes:
> >
> ....<deletia>
> >
> > I'm helping this girl I'm sorta dating move this weekend. I find some
> > repelling gear under the bed. I made SURE it was repelling gear,
> > considering where she stashed it. Checked the ceiling for hooks, too.
>
> For Ghreat Ghrotty Ghu's sake, the word is "rappelle."
> "Rappelling."
>
> I know that the loons and retards who like to climb up hard rock faces
> and fall back down didn't graduate from sixth grade and don't know the
> difference between "repel" and "rappelle," but you MIGHT want to find
> out what the two different words mean before you go out in public
> with a computer terminal again.
>
> I *presumed* you were discussing "repelling" things under her bed
> until you started talking about hooks in the ceiling, and realized
> that the imputed absence of hooks implied that you were probably talking
> about "rappelling gear" instead.
Actually, you hit the nail on the head. It was a pun.
The fact that you didn't get it may mean either I was way too obtuse (that
happens), it's a regional colloquialism, or simply a term that falls
outside your scope of experience (in this case, it's not a bad thing. I'm
not into bondage myself, just have friends that are).
If you don't know what hardcore bondage goths call Repelling Gear, don't
ask. You don't want to know. I'll give you a hint, though...it was given
a boost by Hellraiser.
Now, what PROBABLY happened is that, quite simply, I DID screw up. The
pun makes no sense as it stands anyway. The irony is that GoE had every
right (well, far as I'm concerned) to light into me; he just didn't catch
the right place to do it.
Change "SURE it was" to "SURE it wasn't".
Note that I'm neither trying to weasle my way out (I called myself down
on the carpet on the typo, and even thought I was being a tad obtuse),
nor trying to make GoE look like an idgit. Frankly, I'm suprised he
hasn't beat my fingers to a bloody pulp by now; as stated before, I toss
these notes out on the fly between minor emergencies at work. My notes
for storylines look more professional than these posts ;}
MFinn
Terry L. Smith
Attend, all ye who lurketh here:
The Bimbo's News-Editor-with-a-mind-of-its-own deleted a
couple of lines from a follow-up that the Bimbo made to Mr.
Micker's post. The Bimbo, being in Nitwit Mode, did not
*notice* this, until the dam thing was posted. Follows
the section in question, as it should have been...
[BTW, speaking of dam thngs, weren't the *original* "Troll
Dolls" called "Dam Things?" And weren't they from Denmark, or
somewhere??? AKICiF! Back to the correction, now...]
Raymond Francis Fitzpatrick (fi...@jove.acs.unt.edu) wrote:
: On Fri, 15 Mar 1996, Terry L. Smith wrote:
: > Raymond Francis Fitzpatrick (fi...@jove.acs.unt.edu) wrote:
: > : Intelligence:Yes.
: > : Taste: I'll have to get back to you on that. What are you doing Sat
----------> snip <----------
: Fiancee? Well, I have been known to propose. Of course, I was being
: massaged or fed chocolate at the time.
: (Hmmm. Just noticed how closely related fiancee & finances were realted,
: spelling wise)
: >
: > : [duck]
: >
: > Canard.
: >
: Cantard.
?
Okay ... if you say so... Since I've not the slightest what
you are implying here, I'll give you two choices...
Cantharides
...
------> major snip of rest of post <------
Apologies from the Bimbo.
kw...@astro.phys.unm.edu
Francis A. Ney, Jr. <cro...@access.digex.net> wrote:
>
>In article <Pine.SOL.3.91.960318...@jove.acs.unt.edu> fi...@jove.acs.unt.edu writes:
>
>
>He is, he is. One sentence at a time between bolt tightenings, I understand.
>
He seems to have gotten off into doing a different series. He does that
occasionally.
I want to find out what happens to the little jerks with the scarves.
They ticked off the WRONG woman.
Both Cook and Straczynski seem to like strong female characters.
I mean, Mist from the Dread Empire, the Lady, and Soulcatcher are such
shy and forgiving types :-).
Seriously, does anyone know if he has any plans on when he might write the
next one?
Maybe someone can get him a winning lottery ticket, so he can take a break
from the assembly line.
Kyle L. Webb Dept. of Physics + Astronomy
kw...@astro.phys.unm.edu University of New Mexico
Raymond Francis Fitzpatrick
> : >
> : > : [duck]
> : >
> : > Canard.
> : >
> : Cantard.
>
> ?
>
Check out Glen Cook's Garrett Files, right next to Rick Cook.
Or check out a really good dictionary. Not like the one we have in the
lab (It still amazes me that at a high profile college lab, where people
write their papers, we have a 150 page dictionary.)
> Okay ... if you say so... Since I've not the slightest what
> you are implying here, I'll give you two choices...
>
> Cantharides
Cantankerous.
Raymond Francis Fitzpatrick
>
> In article <Pine.SOL.3.91.960318...@jove.acs.unt.edu> fi...@jove.acs.unt.edu writes:
>
> > (Somebody, anybody...get Cook do finish the damn series? :} )
>
> He is, he is. One sentence at a time between bolt tightenings, I understand.
And Garret books.
3, I think, since his new job has seriously cut into his time for writing.
(Gotta love GM cutbacks). I LIKE the Garret books, and wouldnt mind so
much if he hadn't left us on a cliff with the last BC novel.
Owie. Stingy.
You think waiting a month for the 3rd part of this mini-arc was
anticipation? Sheesh ;}
MFinn
(Like I should talk. I'm so far behind I pass myself on the stairs every
morning. "Night Ralph.")
Scott Jeter
> In <Pine.SOL.3.91.960318...@jove.acs.unt.edu>
> Raymond Francis Fitzpatrick <fi...@jove.acs.unt.edu> writes:
> >
> ....<deletia>
> >
> > I'm helping this girl I'm sorta dating move this weekend. I find some
> > repelling gear under the bed. I made SURE it was repelling gear,
> > considering where she stashed it. Checked the ceiling for hooks, too.
> >
>
>
> For Ghreat Ghrotty Ghu's sake, the word is "rappelle."
> "Rappelling."
I have been rappelling... I thought the verb form was rappel...
(unfortunately I don't have my dictionary handy--Murphy was an
optimist.)
------
scott jeter
bje...@odin.cbu.edu
------
Gharlane of Eddore
> at you that will singe your socks off. I think he's been oppressing
> Delgonians, but don't tell anyone.
In <3146f586...@hobbes.cc.uga.edu>
BRE...@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU (Brett Middleton) writes:
>
> When did "Sliders" fandom pick *that* name? B-)
>
Actually, most "Slidies" seem to display the phenotypical markers
peculiar to the more common varieties of the creatures Garrett
christened "Cadeligian rateagles." (a.k.a. raptor felis Cadelixus.)
Steve Patterson
>
>Actually, most "Slidies" seem to display the phenotypical markers
>peculiar to the more common varieties of the creatures Garrett
>christened "Cadeligian rateagles." (a.k.a. raptor felis Cadelixus.)
>
I don't know much about Latin, but I *do* know that "felis" describes
cats, not rats. Unless there's a subtext that I'm missing... (I must
also confess a shocking lack of knowledge about Garrett's work outside
his "LORD DARCY" books.)
---
For every action, there is an equal and opposite criticism.
<BRAG>Creator and maintainer of the Legions of Steel Web Page!</BRAG>
http://www.hookup.net/~losglobl
Gharlane of Eddore
Scott Jeter <bje...@odin.cbu.edu> writes:
>
GOE> For Ghreat Ghrotty Ghu's sake, the word is "rappelle."
GOE> "Rappelling."
>
> I have been rappelling... I thought the verb form was rappel...
> (unfortunately I don't have my dictionary handy--Murphy was an
> optimist.)
>
"Rappel" is standard modern form, yes; but since, in classical
pronunciation, it's prounounced "rappelle," I prefer the formally
correct spelling.
YMMV. Since it's French, it doesn't really matter.
"The French don't care what they DO, actually, so long as they
prounounce it properly." -- Prof. H. Higgins
Raymond Francis Fitzpatrick
> YMMV. Since it's French, it doesn't really matter.
>
> "The French don't care what they DO, actually, so long as they
> prounounce it properly." -- Prof. H. Higgins
I wonder how many people are going to ask which episode of Magnum PI this
was in.....
Finn
Gharlane of Eddore
ghar...@ccshp1.ccs.csus.edu (Gharlane of Eddore) says:
>
> Actually, most "Slidies" seem to display the phenotypical markers
> peculiar to the more common varieties of the creatures Garrett
> christened "Cadeligian rateagles." (a.k.a. raptor felis Cadelixus.)
>
In <4iu8n3$h...@obelix.helix.net> spatt...@wwdc.com (Steve Patterson) writes:
>
> I don't know much about Latin, but I *do* know that "felis" describes
> cats, not rats. Unless there's a subtext that I'm missing... (I must
> also confess a shocking lack of knowledge about Garrett's work outside
> his "LORD DARCY" books.)
>
It's a joke derived from a joke.... Read Garrett's "BACKSTAGE LENSMAN."
But it'll only really be funny if you've read the four "LENSMAN" novels
first.
Steve Patterson
of the four LENSMAN novels. (Silly me; I bought "FIRST LENSMAN" 'cause,
like, it'll be first, right? And then "GRAY LENSMAN" (spelling Yankeefied
out of courtesy to "Doc"), and I'm afraid to read on.)
Gharlane of Eddore
ghar...@ccshp1.ccs.csus.edu (Gharlane of Eddore) writes:
>
....[snip]
>
> I do *nothing* in a small way.
>
In <1996Mar2...@vax.wittenberg.edu>
lcra...@wittenberg.edu (Crawf) writes:
>
> ...except, perhaps, stand up. :-) :-) :-)
>
> ...and before you fire up that flame-thrower, let me point out that
> I could give you some serious competition in the Harlan Ellison
> stand-alike contest. :-)
>
Please don't be ridiculous; you know perfectly well that from *MY*
viewpoint, you and Ellison are BOTH victims of pituitary giantism.
*mutter* Srizonified tall people... always making "short" jokes....
be...@cais2.cais.com
: Finn
'ere na' yew boit yer tongue, you cheeky devil.
--
Beth (but you can call me Eliza) ;)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Write your senators and urge them to support Senator Leahy's Bill (Senate
Bill 1567 to repeal section 502 of the CDA). You can get your senators'
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According to the Communications Decency Act, these are the words you may
no longer use in your Internet correspondence: Shit, piss, fuck, cunt,
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sucker, mother-fucker and tits, to protect your children as well as
others, from their evil influence, thus keeping America "ideologically
pure".
Mike Gannis
::It's a joke derived from a joke.... Read Garrett's "BACKSTAGE LENSMAN."
::But it'll only really be funny if you've read the four "LENSMAN" novels
::first.
spatt...@wwdc.com (Steve Patterson) replied:
:*Sigh.* Another book on my hunt list. Especially since I'm missing two
:of the four LENSMAN novels. (Silly me; I bought "FIRST LENSMAN" 'cause,
:like, it'll be first, right? And then "GRAY LENSMAN" (spelling Yankeefied
:out of courtesy to "Doc"), and I'm afraid to read on.)
Good luck! "Backstage Lensman was a story in Analog, back in the '70s. It
also can be found in the Randall Garrett collection _Takeoff_ ... Haunt
the used bookstores until you've found this book, and grab it!
Steve Patterson
>
>Good luck! "Backstage Lensman was a story in Analog, back in the '70s. It
>also can be found in the Randall Garrett collection _Takeoff_ ... Haunt
>the used bookstores until you've found this book, and grab it!
>
I'll just go to the local university library (which has bound every Analog
since 1971) and read until my eyes bleed...
Steve Patterson
>
>In <4ilrd1$b...@news.csus.edu>,
>ghar...@ccshp1.ccs.csus.edu (Gharlane of Eddore) writes:
>>
>....[snip]
>>
>> I do *nothing* in a small way.
>>
>
>In <1996Mar2...@vax.wittenberg.edu>
>lcra...@wittenberg.edu (Crawf) writes:
>>
>> ...except, perhaps, stand up. :-) :-) :-)
>>
>
>Please don't be ridiculous; you know perfectly well that from *MY*
>viewpoint, you and Ellison are BOTH victims of pituitary giantism.
>
>*mutter* Srizonified tall people... always making "short" jokes....
>
Gharlane of Eddore
> > YMMV. Since it's French, it doesn't really matter.
> >
> > "The French don't care what they DO, actually, so long as they
> > prounounce it properly." -- Prof. H. Higgins
>
> I wonder how many people are going to ask which episode of Magnum PI
> this was in.....
>
*GRIN* Reminds me of the "MAGNUM, P.I." script I had rejected, because
of my comedic climax scene, which hinged on Higgins' Webley .455 turning
out to *actually* be one of the Webley .45's that were built to run on U.S.
.45 ACP ammo, so that he was able to use ammo from one of Thomas Magnum's
spare magazines... (Since Hillerman is a native Texan, I figured he'd
enjoy getting to do a scene as the Sundance Kid.)
The folks who evaluated the script were apparently Not Amused by Higgins
proving to be a competent Texas-style gunslinger, and they also insisted
that no Webley revolver could use .45 ACP ammo, which told me how much
they actually knew about their own series format....
I stopped watching the show quite so religiously after that.
Gharlane of Eddore
Concerning Garrett's "BACKSTAGE LENSMAN,"
In <4ivbou$e...@obelix.helix.net>
spatt...@wwdc.com (Steve Patterson) writes:
>
> *Sigh.* Another book on my hunt list. Especially since I'm missing two
> of the four LENSMAN novels. (Silly me; I bought "FIRST LENSMAN" 'cause,
> like, it'll be first, right? And then "GRAY LENSMAN" (spelling Yankeefied
> out of courtesy to "Doc"), and I'm afraid to read on.)
>
Not at all. The "Lensman" saga was conceived and outlined as one long
400,000-word novel, broken into four 100,000-word sections. In 1937,
E.E. Smith made his deal to serialize those four books in "ASTOUNDING"
magazine; they were printed over the next ten years. In order, they
are:
#1: "GALACTIC PATROL."
#2: "GRAY LENSMAN." (*)
#3: "SECOND-STAGE LENSMAN."
#4: "CHILDREN OF THE LENS."
These four books *are* the "Lensman Series."
(So you're missing three of the four important ones.)
Later, when Dr. Smith made his deal to sell them for hardback book
publication, the publisher, Lloyd Arthur Eshbach, had a stroke of
inspiration. He conned Smith into RE-writing an earlier, unrelated,
serial, so that it could be used as a "prequel" to the four; and
then got Smith to write a "bridge" novel, "FIRST LENSMAN," to
connect it to the main body of the series.
That's where "TRIPLANETARY" and "FIRST LENSMAN" came from; while
they're interesting work, part of the history of the field, they're
effectively just afterthought add-ons.
*THEN*, around 1960, Smith finally finished his "VORTEX BLASTER"
yarn, which is merely *set* in the "Lensman" universe, and that
somehow got hooked onto the series as well.
For a whole slew of detail information on these and other books,
my "LENSMAN" Web Page / FAQ is available at:
http://168.150.253.1/~zlensman/lensfaq.html
This storage site should be stable for at least a year, if anyone
wants to put up links to it in other pages.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Lastly, Randall Garrett's short piece, "BACKSTAGE LENSMAN,"
is a put-on/pastiche/parody/bad joke about the "Lensman" books,
and got its first major publication in "ANALOG" in 1978,
although Garrett was working on earlier versions prior to 1950.
You can find it in numerous collections, but it won't be
entirely funny until after you've read the "Lensmen" yarns.
Incidentally, by all reports, E.E. Smith Ph.D. *loved*
Garrett's early version of "BACKSTAGE LENSMAN," nearly
half a century ago. It's a real pity Smith didn't live
to see the final version, which was printed a decade
after his death.
-----------------------------------------------------------
(*) Concerning your dig about the "Yankeefication" of spelling;
since E.E. Smith, PhD, got all his basic reading and writing
education prior to the turn of the century, he *knew* the
difference between "grey" and "gray," and used them appropriately.
The title of the book Smith wrote is "GRAY LENSMAN." Despite
this, the title given on the cover of the magazine containing
the first installment of the serialization gave the title as
"GREY LENSMAN." The spelling inside the magazine was correct,
of course, and the cover title was corrected by the second
installment.
This same idiocy occurred with the first hardbound edition
from Fantasy Press; the dust jacket said "GREY LENSMAN," but
the binding, and the book itself, used the correct spelling.
To the best of my knowledge, all subsequent editions have
employed the correct spelling, i.e. "GRAY."
(These two abberations of cover art merely prove that
the average graphic artist is heavily into affectation, and
only borderline literate.)
Due to this history, REAL SF people know the difference between
"gray" and "grey," and don't employ tediously affective variant
spellings, with the possible exception of the historical fennish
preoccupation with the letter "H," as in "BHEER IS THE ONLY TRUE GHOD."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
| __ __ |
| We are dreamers, shapers, singers and makers. / | / \ |
| We study the mysteries of laser and circuit, -|---+----+- |
| Crystal and scanner, holographic demons, | | | |
| And invocations of equations. |_/ \__/ |
| |
| These are the tools we employ. And we know... many things. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Gharlane of Eddore
>
> Good luck! "Backstage Lensman was a story in Analog, back in the '70s. It
> also can be found in the Randall Garrett collection _Takeoff_ ... Haunt
> the used bookstores until you've found this book, and grab it!
>
Yeah, and I'm looking for a copy of Garrett's "TAKEOFF TOO!"
if anyone has a spare and wants to make some money off me.....
"TAKEOFF!" has been out of print since '79, the last I heard....
In <4j02v2$d...@obelix.helix.net>
spatt...@wwdc.com (Steve Patterson) writes:
>
> <VOICE NAME="CAPTAIN_STERN"> Nooo problem! </VOICE>
>
> I'll just go to the local university library (which has bound every Analog
> since 1971) and read until my eyes bleed...
>---
(Only since 1971? Pity.)
Save the trouble. Since I don't have a copy of Mike Ashley's Index here,
I just went in and fanned through the stack.
Randall Garrett's "BACKSTAGE LENSMAN" is on Pages 84-104 of the June, 1978
issue of "ANALOG." I hope you appreciate this, because just zipping
through the stack to find it, I lost an hour stopping to read Joan Vinge's
"THE OUTCASTS OF HEAVEN BELT" again. (Since you're looking up '78, read
that serialized novel while you're at it. Yes, I know, you can buy a
full-length paperback copy for a few bucks... but the magazine version
smells better, and has good illustrations. Good book, in either form.)
And remember what I said about "BACKSTAGE LENSMAN" not being really
completely funny if you read it *before* you read the "LENSMEN" novels.
While you're over there, you might point out to the head librarian that
John W. Campbell, Jr, *died* in 1971, and Bova took over the editorship.
The *important* years of "ASTOUNDING"/"ANALOG" were 1937 to 1971, when
Campbell and Kay Tarrant ran it! You should get your library to buy
a collection, or see if they can get it on microfiche or microfilm.
****************************************************************************
* National Health *
* The efficiency of the Post Office, the compassion of the IRS, *
* at Pentagon prices. *
****************************************************************************
de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.
Three wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner
-- Bill Gunshannon, bi...@cs.uofs.edu
Gary Farber
: The *important* years of "ASTOUNDING"/"ANALOG" were 1937 to 1971, when
: Campbell and Kay Tarrant ran it! You should get your library to buy
: a collection, or see if they can get it on microfiche or microfilm.
When I was around ten years old, I discovered that the Main Branch of the
Brooklyn Public Library had both this and AMAZING on microfilm back to
their first issues. So I went there every weekend for a while and read
the complete run of each.
This influenced me. :-)
I bought several trusses, and became a Rosicrucian.
--
-- Gary Farber Middlemiss gfa...@panix.com
Copyright 1996 for DUFF Brooklyn, NY, USA
Scott Drellishak
Gharlane of Eddore <ghar...@ccshp1.ccs.csus.edu> wrote:
) Due to this history, REAL SF people know the difference between
) "gray" and "grey," and don't employ tediously affective variant
) spellings, with the possible exception of the historical fennish
) preoccupation with the letter "H," as in "BHEER IS THE ONLY TRUE GHOD."
All right, I'm curious -- what's the *real* difference between "gray"
and "grey"? My dictionary says "variant spelling".
--
/ Scott Drellishak s...@netcom.com \
| Microsoft FrontPage ** World Wide Web Authoring Tools For The Masses |
| "Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced." |
\ "Perfect paranoia is perfect awareness." /
Ben Yalow
>In <4ivv9j$h...@rosebud.sdsc.edu>, Mike Gannis <mga...@sdsc.edu> says:
>>
>> Good luck! "Backstage Lensman was a story in Analog, back in the '70s. It
>> also can be found in the Randall Garrett collection _Takeoff_ ... Haunt
>> the used bookstores until you've found this book, and grab it!
>>
>Yeah, and I'm looking for a copy of Garrett's "TAKEOFF TOO!"
>if anyone has a spare and wants to make some money off me.....
>"TAKEOFF!" has been out of print since '79, the last I heard....
There was another reprint edition. When Donning got involved with the
Starblaze stuff, they reprinted TAKEOFF! with a new Phil Foglio cover.
So the most recent edition was the 1986 Donning edition, with the
Starblaze Graphics logo on the cover, as well as Donning on the spine.
ISBN 0-915442-84-1
Ben
--
Ben Yalow yb...@panix.com
Not speaking for anybody
Captain Nerd
> In <4ilrd1$b...@news.csus.edu>,
> ghar...@ccshp1.ccs.csus.edu (Gharlane of Eddore) writes:
> >
> ....[snip]
> >
> > I do *nothing* in a small way.
> >
>
> In <1996Mar2...@vax.wittenberg.edu>
> lcra...@wittenberg.edu (Crawf) writes:
> >
> > ...except, perhaps, stand up. :-) :-) :-)
> >
> > ...and before you fire up that flame-thrower, let me point out that
> > I could give you some serious competition in the Harlan Ellison
> > stand-alike contest. :-)
> >
>
>
> Please don't be ridiculous; you know perfectly well that from *MY*
> viewpoint, you and Ellison are BOTH victims of pituitary giantism.
>
> *mutter* Srizonified tall people... always making "short" jokes....
Don't shortchange yourself, have a piece of shortcake, or else
people will think you were shortsheeted when you were small.
And don't have such a short fuse! We're only here for a short time,
after all!
Cap.
("Ignite sweetheart, well, it's time to go...")
--
==============================================================================
= Captain Nerd's Secret Identity Revealed! Millions Express Disinterest! =
= see it all at http://www.access.digex.net/~cptnerd/ =
==============================================================================
Steve Patterson
>All right, I'm curious -- what's the *real* difference between "gray"
>and "grey"? My dictionary says "variant spelling".
You see, after the Revolutionary War the newly-independant Americans were
looking for any way that they could differentiate themselves from their
former masters. Thus, they deliberately changed the spelling of words in
order to make themselves seperate.
However, over here on the *civilized* side of the Great Lakes, the original
spellings remain intact...
Gary Farber
: In article <4j2dsh$l...@panix2.panix.com> gfa...@panix.com (Gary
: Farber) writes:
: >When I was around ten years old, I discovered that the Main Branch of the
: >their first issues. So I went there every weekend for a while and read
: >the complete run of each.
: This is obviously not true. No living mortal could make it all the way through
: the Ray Palmer years without going stark, staring mad.
Your point? :-)
Besides, I'll clarify that I "ran my eye over every page." I didn't
memorize or closely read every word. I'll cop to a lot of skimming.
I'm still mad, though.
Wanna see my rock pictures of deros being defied with Dianetics?
Richard Newsome
Gharlane of Eddore
>
......<deletia>
>
GOE> Yeah, and I'm looking for a copy of Garrett's "TAKEOFF TOO!"
GOE> if anyone has a spare and wants to make some money off me.....
GOE>
GOE> TAKEOFF!" has been out of print since '79, the last I heard....
>
> There was another reprint edition. When Donning got involved with the
> Starblaze stuff, they reprinted TAKEOFF! with a new Phil Foglio cover.
Actually, Donning was always involved. Donning printed the first
edition as well.
>
> So the most recent edition was the 1986 Donning edition, with the
> Starblaze Graphics logo on the cover, as well as Donning on the spine.
>
> ISBN 0-915442-84-1
>
That's the same ISBN as the *original* "STABLAZE" edition, the one with
the Kelly Freas cover, that Kelly and Polly put together 18 years ago.
Rather than a reprint, it's probably just leftover copies of the first
print run that were bound with a new cover!
( The way to tell them apart: (1) turn book over, look at back.
(2) If, below and to the left of the three lions with hearts,
you see "(c) Kelly Freas, 1979," the cover was not drawn by Foglio.
This procedure presumes, of course, that you can't tell the difference
between Freas and Foglio.)
Incidentally, when I first met Phil Foglio, about 10-15 years back, I
recall being amazed that he looked normal and sane. Smooth healthy
skin, short hair, clean-shaven, glasses, a seraphic expression of
happiness and contentment. Charlie Brown on Thorazine.
Of course, when he smiled, I noticed that all his teeth had been
filed to points......
Kevin Wald
>All right, I'm curious -- what's the *real* difference between "gray"
>and "grey"? My dictionary says "variant spelling".
Here's what the OED has to say on the subject (in the following, -ae is
the Old English letter "aesc", which looks like an a and and e joined
together, and &asg. is that funky Old English g that looks like a 3):
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Each of the current spellings has some analogical support. The only mod.Eng.
words repr. OE. words ending in -ae&asg. are key (which is irrelevant on
account of its pronunciation), whey, and clay. If we further take into
consideration the words repr. OE. words in -ae&asg.e, viz. blay or bley, fey,
wey, we have three (or four) instances of ey and only two (or one) of ay. On
the other hand, this advantage in favour of grey is counterbalanced by the
facts that clay is the only word of the five which is in very general use, and
that grey is phonetically ambiguous, while gray is not. With regard to the
question of usage, an inquiry by Dr. Murray in Nov. 1893 elicited a large
number of replies, from which it appeared that in Great Britain the form grey
is the more frequent in use, notwithstanding the authority of Johnson and
later Eng. lexicographers, who have all given the preference to gray. In
answer to questions as to their practice, the printers of The Times stated
that they always used the form gray; Messrs. Spottiswoode and Messrs. Clowes
always used grey; other eminent printing firms had no fixed rule. Many
correspondents said that they used the two forms with a difference of meaning
or application: the distinction most generally recognized being that grey
denotes a more delicate or a lighter tint than gray. Others considered the
difference to be that gray is a `warmer' colour, or that it has a mixture of
red or brown (cf. also the quot. under 1 c below). In the twentieth century,
grey has become the established spelling in the U.K., whilst gray is standard
in the United States. There seems to be nearly absolute unanimity as to the
spelling of `The Scots Greys', `a pair of greys'. As the word is both
etymologically and phonetically one, it is undesirable to treat its graphic
forms as differing in signification.]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
The "quot. under 1c" alluded to is the following:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
1885 Field's Chromatography iii. 38 note, The distinction between grey and
gray should be carefully observed. Grey is composed only of black and white;
the term gray is applied to any broken colour of a cool hue, and therefore
belongs to the class of chromatic colours.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
In sum:
1) This is partly, though not entirely, one of those annoying transatlantic
differences; and
2) Some people, like Gharlane, treat the two as differing in signification,
but the OED regards this as "undesirable" (and who are you going to listen
to, anyway -- a brain in a jar, or the greatest reference book that mankind
has ever produced?).
I, myself, suggest that we abandon this entire pointless argument, and spell
the word "graeg", the weg the Anglo-Saxons used to. What do you saege?
Kevin Wald | Hwaet saegest thu, yrthlingc?
wa...@math.uchicago.edu | -- AElfric, _Colloquium Martianum_
Ben Yalow
>In <4j2ra9$5...@panix3.panix.com> yb...@panix.com (Ben Yalow) writes:
>>
>> There was another reprint edition. When Donning got involved with the
>> Starblaze stuff, they reprinted TAKEOFF! with a new Phil Foglio cover.
>Actually, Donning was always involved. Donning printed the first
>edition as well.
Right.
>>
>> So the most recent edition was the 1986 Donning edition, with the
>> Starblaze Graphics logo on the cover, as well as Donning on the spine.
>>
>> ISBN 0-915442-84-1
>>
>That's the same ISBN as the *original* "STABLAZE" edition, the one with
>the Kelly Freas cover, that Kelly and Polly put together 18 years ago.
I know. But, according to the rules for ISBNs, they *should* have had a
new one, since there was a new cover, and a new copyright on the state
with the cover.
>Rather than a reprint, it's probably just leftover copies of the first
>print run that were bound with a new cover!
No. There are changes on the copyright page, as well. And, although the
text on each page is identical, the text image area is about a quarter
inch larger total (equally on top and bottom), so I suspect they reshot
each page, a little larger.
>( The way to tell them apart: (1) turn book over, look at back.
> (2) If, below and to the left of the three lions with hearts,
> you see "(c) Kelly Freas, 1979," the cover was not drawn by Foglio.
> This procedure presumes, of course, that you can't tell the difference
> between Freas and Foglio.)
It's easy -- Kelly is much older than Phil.
As for the books, the yellow cover is the Freas, and the green one is the
Foglio.
>Incidentally, when I first met Phil Foglio, about 10-15 years back, I
>recall being amazed that he looked normal and sane. Smooth healthy
>skin, short hair, clean-shaven, glasses, a seraphic expression of
>happiness and contentment. Charlie Brown on Thorazine.
>Of course, when he smiled, I noticed that all his teeth had been
>filed to points......
He still looked pretty much the same when he was GoH at Lunacon last weekend.
Avram Grumer
> Gharlane of Eddore (ghar...@ccshp1.ccs.csus.edu) wrote:
>
> : The *important* years of "ASTOUNDING"/"ANALOG" were 1937 to 1971, when
> : Campbell and Kay Tarrant ran it! You should get your library to buy
> : a collection, or see if they can get it on microfiche or microfilm.
>
> When I was around ten years old, I discovered that the Main Branch of the
> Brooklyn Public Library had both this and AMAZING on microfilm back to
> their first issues. So I went there every weekend for a while and read
> the complete run of each.
Uh oh. If I had any free time, I would now just have found a way to spend
all of it. (I live about a block from the Main Branch of the BPL.)
--
Avram Grumer Home: av...@interport.net
http://www.users.interport.net/~avram Work: agr...@crossover.com
If music be the food of love, then some of it be the Twinkies of dysfunctional relationships.
Tom Salyers
> [Phil Foglio] still looked pretty much the same when he was GoH at Lunacon
> last weekend.
He looked pretty much the same when I met him at MileHiCon in Denver last
October. I got a good close up look because I was "volunteered" from the
audience to participate in an improv performance that he and some others
were doing. It was a blast. =)
--
Tom Salyers "Now is the Windows of our disk contents
IRCnick: Aqualung Made glorious SimEarth by this Sun of Zork."
Denver, CO --from _Richard v3.0_
Phil Boswell
(fi...@jove.acs.unt.edu) writes:
>On Fri, 15 Mar 1996, Terry L. Smith wrote:
>> Raymond Francis Fitzpatrick (fi...@jove.acs.unt.edu) wrote:
>> : [duck]
>> Canard.
>Cantard.
Isn't that Garrett's least favourite place?
Anybody remember Garrett's first name, or even if he has one?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Codd and Date Ltd., 1 Broadway Court, CHESHAM, Bucks HP5 1EG |
Tel: (01494) 791355 Fax: (01494) 791373 |
Email: ph...@codd-date.win-uk.net |
rsf...@uncg.edu
>In article <4j0d00$m...@news.csus.edu>,
>Gharlane of Eddore <ghar...@ccshp1.ccs.csus.edu> wrote:
>) Due to this history, REAL SF people know the difference between
>) "gray" and "grey," and don't employ tediously affective variant
>) spellings, with the possible exception of the historical fennish
>) preoccupation with the letter "H," as in "BHEER IS THE ONLY TRUE GHOD."
>
>All right, I'm curious -- what's the *real* difference between "gray"
>and "grey"? My dictionary says "variant spelling".
One is used in front of the word "Lensman", and the other is used in front of
the word "Mouser."
Any other questions?
Rob F.
Francis A. Ney, Jr.
> Concerning Garrett's "BACKSTAGE LENSMAN,"
>
> In <4ivbou$e...@obelix.helix.net>
> spatt...@wwdc.com (Steve Patterson) writes:
> >
> > *Sigh.* Another book on my hunt list. Especially since I'm missing two
> > of the four LENSMAN novels. (Silly me; I bought "FIRST LENSMAN" 'cause,
> > like, it'll be first, right? And then "GRAY LENSMAN" (spelling Yankeefied
> > out of courtesy to "Doc"), and I'm afraid to read on.)
> >
>
> Not at all. The "Lensman" saga was conceived and outlined as one long
> 400,000-word novel, broken into four 100,000-word sections. In 1937,
> E.E. Smith made his deal to serialize those four books in "ASTOUNDING"
> magazine; they were printed over the next ten years. In order, they
> are:
<Massive Snippage of a good post>
Heck, this is the first time I've ever *heard* of _Backstage Lensman_, so you
can tell how out of it *I* am. B-)=
Seriously, though, if you haven't already heard of them, there are other books
by the good doctor that are worth reading, such as the _Skylark_ and
_Subspace_ series, and _Spacehounds of the IPC_. There were also two psionics
novels but I can't remember the names.
There is also a ten-book _Family D'Alembert_ series, from an outline by Doc
Smith, written by Stephen Goldin. Not completely Doc Smith, but still worth
it (though I think I'm about to be flamed by Gharlane for my bad taste B-)= ).
---
Frank Ney WV/EMT-B VA/EMT-A N4ZHG LPWV NRA(L) GOA CCRKBA JPFO
Sponsor, BATF Abuse page http://www.access.digex.net/~croaker/batfabus.html
West Virginia Coordinator, Libertarian Second Amendment Caucus
"[E]lections amount to no more than choosing between the scum that floats to
the top of the barrel and the dregs that settle to the bottom."
- L. Neil Smith
Mark Stackpole
> You should get your library to buy
> a collection, or see if they can get it on microfiche or microfilm.
University Microfilms International at Ann Arbor, has long had for sale a
complete run of _Astounding/Analog_ on Microfilm. The company also
offers _The Magazine of Fantasy & Science Fiction_ and _Isaac Asimov's
Science Fiction Magazine_ on microfilm as well.
_Galaxy_ and _Worlds of If_ are available in microfilm from the New York
Public Library.
In all cases, the cover art is in glorious black & white.
Mark Stackpole
Mike Gannis
>Anybody remember Garrett's first name, or even if he has one?
Randall.
And for *real* trivia lovers, his middle names are Thagobar,
Larminisculus, and Verf. Just ask Robert Silverberg. <grin>
tkoren
>
> However, over here on the *civilized* side of the Great Lakes, the original
> spellings remain intact...
Careful you might provoce another attempt by a certain country to take over this
country. :)
Liav.
Loki
: All right, I'm curious -- what's the *real* difference between "gray"
: and "grey"? My dictionary says "variant spelling".
Hmm. Me too. The only real difference, to me, is that I've always liked
"grey" better.
- Loki
--
+----------------------+---------------------------------+------------------+
| gwis...@uoguelph.ca | cs1...@snowhite.cis.uoguelph.ca | Geoffrey Wiseman |
+---------------+------+---------------------------------+------+-----------+
| http://tdg.uoguelph.ca/~ontarion/users/geoff |
+-----------------------------------------------+
"Through the darkness of future past, the magician longs to see
one chance out between two worlds, Fire walk with me."
Mike Gannis
>>
>> However, over here on the *civilized* side of the Great Lakes, the original
>> spellings remain intact...
tkoren <tko...@interlog.com> wrote:
>Careful you might provoce another attempt by a certain country to take over this
>country. :)
Remember, in the Draka universe ... we did. <grin>
Gharlane of Eddore
>
....<deletia>
> Seriously, though, if you haven't already heard of them, there are
> other books by the good doctor that are worth reading, such as the
> _Skylark_ and _Subspace_ series, and _Spacehounds of the IPC_.
> There were also two psionics novels but I can't remember the names.
The "SKYLARKS" had three in the original series; in order,
"SKYLARK OF SPACE," "SKYLARK THREE," and "SKYLARK OF VALERON."
Thirty years later he finished the series off with a nice come-back
for the villain, DuQuesne, in "SKYLARK DUQUESNE."
The "Skylark" series began serialization in 1928, and the three
originals got hardbound editions in the forties and fifties.
Doc re-wrote "THE SKYLARK OF SPACE" in 1958 for Pyramid's first
paperback edition, and that was his preferred edition.
The "SUBSPACE" series is TWO books. EES started out intending one
long book, discovered he had a really great story to tell, and
figured out a neat approach... He wrote the first, big, book,
and then planned a separate book that would fit in mid-way through
the first, yielding a "Surprise Trilogy."
... so he prepped the first half of the big book for publication,
organized the material for the second half, and then started thinking
about the new, "middle" book. The idea was that it would be (apparently)
completely unrelated, and no one would realize the third book (the second
half of the first big book) would tie the first two together in a burst
of pyrotechnics.
Doc died in summer, '65. The "middle" book will never be written.
His long-time friend and publisher, Lloyd Arthur Eshbach, took over
getting the second half of the existing material into publication
shape. He claims to this day that he wrote only a few percent of
the material, since all the major scenes existed and merely needed
to be connected together. His name is on the book as "Editor,"
and I think he did a great job; it's almost impossible to tell
which bits are his contributions.
That's where the two "SUBSPACE" books came from. (Only the first
got a hardback edition, from Canaveral, in '65.)
"THE SPACEHOUNDS OF IPC" is lovely fun from the Golden Age.
It's a stand-alone, and something of a classic, a milestone in
its era. I believe it was also the first hardback printed by
Lloyd Eshbach when his company, "Fantasy Press," began operation
in the late forties.
> There is also a ten-book _Family D'Alembert_ series, from an outline
> by Doc Smith, written by Stephen Goldin. Not completely Doc Smith,
> but still worth it (though I think I'm about to be flamed by Gharlane
> for my bad taste B-)= ).
Not entirely. EES's outline was only for a couple of books, and he
himself only wrote only the first part of the first book prior to his
death in '65. Goldin is almost entirely responsible for the rest
of them, conservatively culpable for 95% of the material.
They've had multiple printings, the most recent in the U.S. that
I know of, from Berkeley Books in the mid-eighties.
I don't regard them as having anything to do with EES after the
first book, and think the best thing about them was the Barr
cover illustrations on the early Pyramid printings.
As far as I'm concerned, EES' name doesn't belong on the covers.
Goldin wasted a golden opportunity; he's not one of our great writers,
but he's capable of FAR better work than he turned out in those
turkeys. If you like 'em, well, it's a free country.
But they're not SF; they're fantasy, and not very good fantasy.
Note also that EES' two shortish stories about a character named
"Lord Tedric" got recycled, pumped up by a contract writer, and
exist in a multiple-book series format, in much the same way.
These, like the Goldin set, are to be avoided like unto the
veriest of plagues, unless you're obsessive or a completist.
You mention "...two psionics novels," with no titles.
You are probably thinking of "THE GALAXY PRIMES," a book that EES
never really liked, and wished he hadn't written; and "THE VORTEX
BLASTER," set in the "Lensman" universe, but not part of the series.
"THE VORTEX BLASTER" is actually a pretty decent book, considering
its fragmented, bad-luck history.
Smith's name is also on a book called "THE MASTERS OF SPACE,"
which was actually an unfinished novel left by his friend
E. Everett Evans. Smith finished it and sold it, primarily
as a favor to Evans' widow. In subsequent paperback editions,
the cover says "E. E. 'DOC' SMITH!" in large letters, since the
publisher knew no one would lay out a nickel for a posthumous
Evans book. It's good, solid, 1930's space opera; but since
it was published around 1960, it didn't do too well. I
believe there's a sequel, or related book, as well.
Again, of interest only to the completist or the obsessive.
For dates, and other FAQish details on the "LENSMEN" series,
http://168.150.253.1/~zlensman/lensfaq.html
I have a text-only version of the "Lensman FAQ" which I stopped posting
some time back, but will put up as an FTP-able text file if anyone
gives a hoot.
Rick Cook
>
>Isn't that Garrett's least favourite place?
>
>
I assume the story in question is "Duck" from Astounding, containing one of
my favorite lines:
"Duck excrement", he said, answering three questions in two syllables.
--RC
Rick Cook
>>All right, I'm curious -- what's the *real* difference between "gray"
>>and "grey"? My dictionary says "variant spelling".
>
>of
>the word "Mouser."
>
--RC
Paul Colquhoun
spatt...@wwdc.com (Steve Patterson) writes:
SP> In article <4iukdb$p...@news.csus.edu>, ghar...@ccshp1.ccs.csus.edu (Gharlane of Eddore) says:
SP> >It's a joke derived from a joke.... Read Garrett's "BACKSTAGE LENSMAN."
SP> >But it'll only really be funny if you've read the four "LENSMAN" novels
SP> >first.
SP> >
SP> *Sigh.* Another book on my hunt list. Especially since I'm missing two
SP> of the four LENSMAN novels. (Silly me; I bought "FIRST LENSMAN" 'cause,
SP> like, it'll be first, right? And then "GRAY LENSMAN" (spelling Yankeefied
SP> out of courtesy to "Doc"), and I'm afraid to read on.)
Funny, last time I read them there were seven Lensman books.
Let's see:
Triplanetary
Galactic Patrol
First Lensman
Grey Lensman
Second Stage Lensman
Children of the Lens
and the only vaguly related
Masters of the Vortex
--
Paul Colquhoun <pau...@two-rivers.tpgi.com.au>
"Never underestimate the power of human stupidity"
- Lazarus Long aka Robert A. Heinlein
Steve Patterson
>
>tkoren <tko...@interlog.com> wrote:
>
>>Careful you might provoce another attempt by a certain country to take over this
>>country. :)
>
>Remember, in the Draka universe ... we did. <grin>
I gather that you're ignorant about Operation Short-Hairs, otherwise you'd
realise how futile a US invasion attempt would be. Not to mention that
fine plan, put together by Mackenzie King, that the American News Network
leaked in their documentary "THE CANADIAN CONSPIRACY."
(Little do you realise the power Canada holds over you. After they had
broadcast that special, we "exerted our influence" and now ANN broadcasts
alongside the Dumont Network...)
Jay Denebeim
Oh cool, HI RICK! For a second there, I thought you were reading the
b5 newsgroup, but then I saw the cross posts.
To the B5ers, read Rick's books, they're fun.
Jay
--
Jay Denebeim dene...@deepthot.cary.nc.us
duke.edu!wolves!deepthot!denebeim
Fuck censorship! Oh *shit* there goes another 100, er $200,000
David Hines
Paul Colquhoun <pau...@tpgi.com.au> wrote:
>Funny, last time I read them there were seven Lensman books.
>Let's see:
> Triplanetary
> Galactic Patrol
> First Lensman
> Grey Lensman
> Second Stage Lensman
> Children of the Lens
>and the only vaguly related
> Masters of the Vortex
AIIIIIEEEEEEEEE!!!!!! 450-line FAQ INCOMING!!!!!!
*ducks for cover*
David Hines | Unsolicited polls, surveys and commercial
dzh...@midway.uchicago.edu | emails are unappreciated. I will deign to
| read such email for a rate of US$25 per word.
Gharlane of Eddore
(Gharlane of Eddore) says:
>
> It's a joke derived from a joke.... Read Garrett's "BACKSTAGE LENSMAN."
In <4ivbou$e...@obelix.helix.net>,
spatt...@wwdc.com (Steve Patterson) writes:
>
> *Sigh.* Another book on my hunt list. Especially since I'm missing
> two of the four LENSMAN novels. (Silly me; I bought "FIRST LENSMAN"
> 'cause, like, it'll be first, right? And then "GRAY LENSMAN" (spelling
> Yankeefied out of courtesy to "Doc"), and I'm afraid to read on.)
In <4j8gu1$b...@two-rivers.tpgi.com.au>
pau...@tpgi.com.au (Paul Colquhoun) writes:
>
> Funny, last time I read them there were seven Lensman books.
> Let's see:
> Triplanetary
> Galactic Patrol
> First Lensman
> Grey Lensman
> Second Stage Lensman
> Children of the Lens
> and the only vaguly related
> Masters of the Vortex
You have them in the wrong order, and are including three
"afterthought" books.
You have also mis-spelled the title of "GRAY LENSMAN."
Smith was adamant about the difference between "grey" and "gray,"
and knew when to use each; he was NOT amused by the accidental
mis-titlings that occurred on one magazine cover and one book
dust-jacket.
There are actually ten books set in the "Lensmen" universe which are
recognized by the Smith estate.
In plot order, they are:
'48 Triplanetary -\
'50 First Lensman -\ --both written post-1948, as add-on "prequels"
'37-'38 Galactic Patrol -\
'39-'40 Gray Lensman \
'41-'42 Second Stage Lensmen \
'47-'48 Children of the Lens -\ -- the four ORIGINAL novels, the real ones.
'42-'60 The Vortex Blaster -- stand-alone, set in same universe
'80 Dragon Lensman -\
'82 Lensman From Rigel \
'83 Z-Lensman -\ -- David A. Kyle's three add-ons.
If you have a WWW browser, take a look at
http://168.150.253.1/~zlensman/lensfaq.html
for accurate details and information on the series, and on related
books.
=======================================================================
|| "It's Science Fiction, if, presuming technical competence on the ||
|| the part of the writer, he genuinely believes it could happen." ||
|| --- John W. Campbell, Jr. ||
=======================================================================
|| Vir: Ah! He has become one with his inner self. ||
|| Garibaldi: He's passed out. ||
|| Vir: That too! ||
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Londo: Do you know what the last Xon said, just before he died? |
| Garibaldi: No, what? |
| Londo: AARRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHH! |
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gharlane of Eddore
Paul Colquhoun <pau...@tpgi.com.au> wrote:
>
....<comments on "LENSMEN" deleted
>
In <Dovuq...@midway.uchicago.edu>
dzh...@midway.uchicago.edu (David Hines) writes:
>
> AIIIIIEEEEEEEEE!!!!!! 450-line FAQ INCOMING!!!!!!
>
> *ducks for cover*
>
Actually, I wasn't going to do this, since there's now a Web site for
anyone who gives half a hoot.... but here's the ASCII text version.
|=====================================================================|
|<*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*>|
|=====================================================================|
This entry is about 430 lines of information about the "LENSMAN"
novels of E.E. Smith, PhD. If you're not interested, hit the
"N" key *NOW*.
=====================================================================
Date: Jan 31 1996 16:25:23 PST
=====================================================================
THE "LENSMEN" FAQ. << v3.61, 31 Jan 96>>
Source: ghar...@ccshp1.ccs.csus.edu (C) 1991,1992,1993,1994,1995,1996
Electronic reproduction authorized as long as no changes are made
and copyright notices are retained.
warning: This sucker is about 430 lines in length.
CONTENTS:
QUESTION #0: WHAT IS THE "LENSMAN" SERIES?
QUESTION #1: HOW MANY BOOKS ARE THERE IN THE 'LENSMAN' SERIES?
QUESTION #2: WAS ANOTHER BOOK PLANNED AFTER 'CHILDREN OF THE LENS?'
QUESTION #3: ISN'T "MASTERS OF THE VORTEX" PART OF THE SERIES?
QUESTION #4: WHAT OTHER BOOKS HAVE BEEN ADDED TO THE "LENSMAN" UNIVERSE?
QUESTION #5: WHAT ABOUT THE "LENSMAN" MOVIE and COMICS?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
QUESTION #0: WHAT IS THE "LENSMAN" SERIES?
The "Lensman" series is a set of books concerning the most noble
set of Good Guys ever to run loose in Science Fiction. A Lensman
is Trustworthy, Loyal, Helpful, Friendly, Courteous, Kind, Obedient,
Cheerful, Thrifty, Brave, Clean, and Reverent; and Well-Educated,
Athletic, and Relentless, to boot.
The "Lens" is an artifact, a telepathic amplifier and universal
translator; keyed to the individual Lensman who owns it, it will kill
anyone else who tries to wear it.
The Lensman fight the arch-villains of the universe, and each time
they eradicate a big, bad set of villains, they discover the villains
they've just vanquished were merely fronts for bigger, badder villains;
this goes on until they identify, and extirpate, the Evillest Villains
In Two Universes, leaving both universes safe for Truth, Justice, and
The Civilized Way.
The series is noted for its internal consistency, long-term
story planning, and breathtaking originality of plot and concept.
Much of modern SF is directly derived from it, and the entire
field owes a huge debt to the Lensmen.
The series was created by Edward Elmer Smith, PhD ( 2 May 1890 --
1 Sep 1965). Smith's primary education took place around the
turn of the century, and his writing style reflects this.
His use of language might be considered florid by modern standards,
but his unabashed command of vocabulary and complex sentence structure
are quite enjoyable, particularly when you realize that what he was
writing was, by Victorian standards, leaned-down and Hemingwayesque.
Unlike most fantasists, he had a strong technical education, and
this contributed to the coherence and believeability of even his
most grandiose concepts.
The Lensman series was originally contracted for by F. Orlin
Tremaine, then editor of "ASTOUNDING" magazine, in 1937. Due to
staff changes, the series was actually edited by John W. Campbell,
Jr, who, along with EES' cohorts, the "Galactic Roamers," contributed
no small amount to the series.
QUESTION #1: HOW MANY BOOKS ARE THERE IN THE 'LENSMAN' SERIES?
Originally, the "Lensman" saga was specifically designed as a
400,000-word novel, to be broken into FOUR segments.
Smith knew exactly where he was going with the four books,
had a complete outline, and actually wrote the ending of the
fourth book before he began work on the first one.
EES submitted his detailed 85-page outline, as long as some
short novels, to F. Orlin Tremaine, the editor of "ASTOUNDING,"
in early 1937. Just prior to his departure from the editorial
helm, Tremaine committed "ASTOUNDING" to buying and printing
the entire package. (The new editor was John W. Campbell, who
would use the impetus of stories by Smith, Heinlein, and Van
Vogt to drive "ASTOUNDING" to the forefront of the field and
keep it there for the next three decades.)
The FOUR lensman novels of the basic series are:
"GALACTIC PATROL," serialized in "ASTOUNDING," Sep '37 - Feb '38;
1st book, Fantasy Press hardbound, 1950.
"GRAY LENSMAN," serialized in "ASTOUNDING," Oct '39 - Jan '40;
1st book, Fantasy Press hardbound, 1951.
"SECOND-STAGE LENSMEN," serialized in "ASTOUNDING," Nov '41 - Feb '42;
1st book, Fantasy Press hardbound, 1953.
and
"CHILDREN OF THE LENS," serialized in "ASTOUNDING," Nov '47 - Feb '48.
1st book, Fantasy Press hardbound, 1954.
--The book dustjackets and interior illustrations are credited to
Ric Binkley, and strongly derived from earlier "ASTOUNDING" artwork,
primarily that of Charles Schneeman and Hubert Rogers.
It should be noted that there are textual differences between the
serialized versions and the hardbacks; in the magazine versions,
the Evil Eddorians aren't even known to exist until the last book.
In fact, at the end of "SECOND-STAGE LENSMEN," EES uses such a hoary
old plot device to end the book that some of his fans were more than
a little put out. EES was concerned over this, even in his original
outline, because he knew he needed a strong "phony ending" for a
break between SSL and COTL, while the Children grew to maturity,
and he couldn't come up with one that he really liked.
When Lloyd Arthur Eshbach, the owner of Fantasy Press, set up his deal
with EES to publish the four books in hardbound, he came up with the
entrepreneurial inspiration of conning EES into rewriting an earlier book,
"TRIPLANETARY," to fit into the "Lensmen" universe; and writing a "bridge"
novel, "FIRST LENSMAN," to connect it onto the beginning of the series.
( The earlier, *non*-"Lensman" version of "TRIPLANETARY" had appeared
in "AMAZING" magazine, Jan '34 - Apr '34.)
Since Fantasy Press printings of EES' other novels were already
selling like hotcakes on a cold morning during the potato famine,
Eshbach had no trouble marketing two "new" EES books as an introduction
to the main "Lensman" series.
This is why there are SIX books in the post-1950, post-Eshbach,
series, and why the first book is so unlike the rest in style and
content. Those "first" two FP "Lensman" books are:
"TRIPLANETARY," Fantasy Press hardbound, 1948; and
"FIRST LENSMAN," Fantasy Press hardbound, 1950.
--Dustjacket paintings and interior illustrations are credited to
A.J. Donnell.
( In 1954, Fantasy Press ran off 75 boxed, leather-bound sets of the
six books, and marketed them under the title "THE HISTORY OF CIVILIZATION."
If anyone knows the location of one of these that's for sale, I'd be
interested in hearing the price-tag on it.)
In 1956, Fantasy Press produced what we'd call today a "trade paperback"
edition of "GALACTIC PATROL;" paperbound copies from the 1951 print run.
At least one Fantasy Press hardbound, "GRAY LENSMAN," was reprinted
by Gnome Press, around 1961, apparently using a simple photo-offset
reproduction of the original Fantasy Press version. The only apparent
changes were the removal of the Fantasy Press name and colophon from the
title page (and "Gnome Press," without the famous Edd Cartier-designed
Gnome colophon, added.) The copyright date is still given as 1951, and
although it's the second edition, it claims to be the first.
The dust jacket on the first FP printing of GL mis-spelled the title
as "GREY LENSMAN." The Gnome version, as is usual for that publisher,
seems to have been printed on cheap paper, and the Gnome dust jacket is
not a full-color reproduction of the original.
The first mass-market paperback editions of the six "Lensman" novels
appeared from Pyramid in '64, '65, and '66. There have been a huge
quantity of printings and translations, from many publishers, since.
QUESTION #2: WAS ANOTHER BOOK PLANNED AFTER 'CHILDREN OF THE LENS?'
EES had a plotline in mind for what occurred after the last book,
but, as far as I can find out, never had any intention of writing it.
Heinlein reports discussing it with him in some detail, but says
he's unaware of any of the book ever having been written or even
outlined on paper.
EES made references to it on two occasions when I encountered him
in person, but declined to discuss it in detail.
Lloyd Eshbach reports that EES said "NO!" in capital letters
whenever approached on the subject of writing sequels.
The subsequent storlyine seems obvious, since the encapsulation
of the last book ("CHILDREN OF THE LENS") is addressed to any
third-level entity capable of obtaining it and reading it, and the
closing salutation refers to "your race;" this implies the existence
of third-level species besides Kit and his sisters...... which means
that Kit & Co. have replaced the Arisians and are guiding other
civilizations into producing third-level minds, or have discovered
or created a new race of third-level intellects.
(Since the Children are genetically perfect, as EES keeps reminding
us, inbreeding might not be dangerous, with no dangerous recessive
genes to be expressed. Of course, there is no reason to presume
the Children have any *need* to reproduce their kind; their species
might well be effectively immortal.)
QUESTION #3: ISN'T "MASTERS OF THE VORTEX" PART OF THE SERIES?
------
---->> NO.
------
F. Orlin Tremaine, the editor who'd left "ASTOUNDING" in 1938,
was working on a new magazine, "COMET," which was having major
financial and circulation problems. Tremaine asked Smith if he
could help out. Since Smith couldn't sell a "Lensman" novel
to a competitor of "ASTOUNDING," he came up with the idea for
a different series, set in the same universe. Unfortunately,
Tremaine's ballyhooing of the new EES series didn't get the
magazine out of the red in time. "THE VORTEX BLASTER" appeared
in the the *last* issue of "COMET", in July, 1941.
This story is about the first 25 pages of the hardbound book.
John Campbell, the editor of "ASTOUNDING," reportedly took a dim
view of this situation, since Tremaine had bragged, in print,
about how he was going to drive "ASTOUNDING" out of business.
Campbell once said he felt that EES's loyalty to a friend who
wasn't that good an editor was mis-placed, and constituted a kind of
underhanded use of "ASTOUNDING"'s material to support the competition.
While Campbell loudly supported competition, it may be noteworthy
that EES (with the exception of "CHILDREN OF THE LENS," six years
later) made only one other sale to "ASTOUNDING." ("SUBSPACE
EXPLORERS," July 1960.)
More "VORTEX BLASTER" stories, the stories "STORM CLOUD ON DEKA"
and "THE VORTEX BLASTER MAKES WAR," appeared in "ASTONISHING STORIES"
in June and October of 1942.
With no major markets paying full rates for the V.B. stories,
EES telescoped the multi-volume outline into something that would
fit into one book, and the three published stories became the first
sections of the book. One character, Vesta the Vegian, is very
appealing, and one of his best-realized alien characters.
"THE VORTEX BLASTER" first appeared in hardback from Gnome Press
in 1960. (According to Eshbach, the normal printing schedule was
inverted, so the tiny (about 300 copies) Fantasy Press edition, with
the better binding and paper, was actually the *second* printing.)
Due to the way contract rights had been assigned on the first story,
it was available for solo reprint in collections; it appeared in
"MODERN MASTERPIECES OF SCIENCE FICTION," World Publishers, 1965,
and was the lead story in a MacFadden-Bartell paperback, "THE
VORTEX BLASTERS & OTHER STORIES," in 1968. I've been told that
the folks at Pyramid, in an attempt to avoid competition with
another book carrying the same title, elected to use the new title,
"MASTERS OF THE VORTEX," on their reprint of the Gnome Press novel,
and that this is why the title continued to appear.
Question 3(A): Where does "V.B." fit into the "Lensman" sequence?
Although the "VORTEX BLASTER" novel is not specifically dated,
and does not appear to refer to specific events during the final
part of the Arisian-Eddorian war, the relative quietness of the
galaxy seems to indicate that it takes place subsequent to "SSL."
Scott Drellishak (s...@soda.berkeley.edu) points out that VB
definitely dates after GL by at least a few months, and probably
after SSL, on the basis of the following points:
After GL:
In Chapter 6 of VB, there are references to superdreadnoughts
and primary beams, both of which were developed during GL.
When Cloud gets an arm shot off, it is regenerated using the
Phillips Process, also developed during GL. Availability of
this treatment to a civilian employee of the Galactic Patrol
implies at least a few months have passed since GL.
After SSL: (?)
Lensman Phil Strong says "You're the most-wanted man in the
galaxy, not excepting Kimball Kinnison." This implies Kinnison
is now a public figure, Coordinator Kinnison of Klovia, no
longer a secret agent.
Drellishak also points out that VB characters always speak of
one galaxy, not two, which might date it before SSL. (I feel
this just means the other galaxy isn't yet public information.)
Dani Zweig ( da...@netcom.com ) adds that it does look like
Kinnison is already Galactic Coordinator. "The fact that he
can undertake a search for someone to help or replace Storm is
more telling than the fact that he is the most wanted man in
Civilization."
Ron Ellik has observed:
"The events of 'The Vortex Blaster' are not decidedly before or
after "Children Of The Lens" -- Kim appears as an executive, not
merely as The Lensman, and Haynes is still at his desk although
we know that Raoul LaForge had been appointed Port Admiral by the
time of the Battle of Ploor. Nothing conclusive -- the important
thing is that VB forms a parenthesis in the stories of the Lens
universe, as it is not concerned with the Eddorian conflict."
The best interpretation I can see at this date is that VB
occurs at some point between SSL and COTL.
QUESTION #4: WHAT OTHER BOOKS HAVE BEEN ADDED TO THE "LENSMAN" UNIVERSE?
Recent paperback printings of various "Lensman" novels have
included EES' novel, "THE SPACEHOUNDS OF I.P.C." in the column of
"Lensman" titles facing the title page.
"THE SPACEHOUNDS OF I.P.C." doesn't even take place in the same
universe, uses different technology, and can not be fitted into the
series by any even marginally sane leap of imagination.
William B. Ellern wrote a short piece called "MOON PROSPECTOR,"
set in the Lensman universe. It was published, with EES' knowledge
and approval, in the April, 1966 "ANALOG." Michael Richards and
James Corrick have provided further info: additions to this story
were serialized as "NEW LENSMAN" in "PERRY RHODAN" books #61-#74,
inclusive, about 1975, and followed by a stand-alone novella called
"TRIPLANETARY AGENT," which appeared in "PERRY RHODAN" books #100-#105,
inclusive, in 1976. "TRIPLANETARY AGENT" has apparently never been
reprinted, and is reported as very poor writing; it uses the same main
character as "NEW LENSMAN."
The novel version, "NEW LENSMAN," compositing "MOON PROSPECTOR" and
"NEW LENSMAN," was printed by Futura in 1976. James Corrick describes
"NEW LENSMAN"'s use as a framing encapsulation for "MOON PROSPECTOR,"
which appears as chapters 8, 9, 12, 14, and 17 of the book; and says
that the two stories appear to have no characters in common. Reports
on quality of the book vary from "putrid" to "tolerable." I haven't
read the book version, primarily due to having read the magazine piece.
EES worked with a writers' group called "The Galactic Roamers."
These folks, aggressive and professional, delighted in tearing apart
anything vulnerable in EES' works in progress; they were a great help
in his writing, as well as being good friends.
At the end of "SECOND STAGE LENSMEN," EES addresses specific
appreciations to Dr. James R. Enright and to the following Roamers:
E. Everett Evans, F. Edwin Counts, Paul Leavy, Jr, Alfred Ashley;
and to Verna Trestrail.
A later Roamer, David A. Kyle, was a long-time writer, publisher,
collector and fan; using extant outlines, fragments of EES' unpublished
work, and years of wrangling, arguments, and discussions as his source,
he wrote three books EES had intended but never gotten around to.
Cover paintings on the Kyle books, by Bob Larkin, start sloppy in story
detail, portraying Worsel as a sort of large four-eyed dinosaur, and then
improve both in technique and correlation to the stories.
( On the subject of Worsel's eyes, herewith a slight digression:
The original illustrations from "ASTOUNDING," presumably
approved by EES and Campbell, usually show Worsel with either
four or six eyes on stalks. Rogers shows Worsel in flight
with six stalked eyes, and Schneeman shows Worsel walking, with
four; perhaps the other two are specialized for in-flight
applications.....or maybe Worsel just makes however many he needs!
When queried about the two-eyed dinosaurian Worsel who
appears on the cover of "DRAGON LENSMAN," and about the
equivalent creature in the Japanime, David A. Kyle
amusedly pointed out that, in voluminous research, he has
never been able to find a number of eyes specified in any
manuscript or working notes! I checked. We have only the words
"multiple" and "stalked," although in "SECOND STAGE LENSMEN,"
Worsel "thrust out a half dozen of his weirdly stalked eyes,"
and in "CHILDREN OF THE LENS," "eight weirdly stalked eyes
curled out..."
So we don't know how many eyes Worsel has, except (a) they're
stalked; (b) he can muster *at least* eight! ...and, of course,
(c) he has more than two.
Kyle's three books are copyrighted by Verna Smith Trestrail, so
they are owned by the Smith estate. They are:
"DRAGON LENSMAN" (Bantam Books, Sep '80, ISBN 0-553-13741-7, $1.95);
"LENSMAN FROM RIGEL" (Bantam Books, Oct '82, ISBN 0-553-20499-8, $2.50);
"Z-LENSMAN." (Bantam Books, Aug '83, ISBN 0-553-23427-7, $2.75).
Each of these books features one of the non-Terran second-stage
Lensmen as its primary character.
I'm only aware of one printing on each of these, but I've been told
there were later, brief print runs of at least one or two.
"Z-LENSMAN" seems to be hard to find, which is something of a pity;
I liked it best of Kyle's books.
Kyle's writing, while not initially fabulous, is readable, improves
in the second, and is quite decent pulp SF in the third.
I don't know whether this is a result of achieving a successful
synthesis between his own styles and concepts and EES', or whether
the editor he drew at Bantam didn't understand what he was trying to
do at the outset, but it should be noted that even in the first
book, Kyle adds a number of interesting plotlines to the "Lensman"
universe; his machine intelligences, for example, were something EES
had avoided in the original series, possibly to keep the plot
complexity down to something he could handle in a mere four books.
By his third book, Kyle added concepts and characters that could
eventually generate a whole new cycle of novels; hopefully someone
will do them right, some day, if Kyle is too busy.
QUESTION #5: WHAT ABOUT THE "LENSMAN" MOVIE and COMICS?
There have been many Japanese editions of the "Lensman" books
over the years; for example, Al Lewis's EES bibliography lists
"GREI RENZUMAN" from Tokyo Sogensha, a 1966 paperback.
Some years ago, the same Japanese anime studio which had done
the "BATTLESHIP YAMATO" series (re-packaged as "STAR BLAZERS"
in the U.S.) got hold of the rights to the "LENSMEN" yarns and
did a screen adaption.
Worsel has only two eyes, and looks like a bipedal dinosaur
instead of a snaky winged reptile; Clarissa MacDougall suddenly
stopped being a beautiful redhead and has BROWN eyes....
There are other noxious details, like Kinnison being a farmboy
who gets his Lens from a Crashed Space Hero, etc...... *wince*
The anime movie, "THE LENSMEN," is available on tape and laserdisk.
Don't say I didn't warn you.
Comics. I've been told there are a slew of "Lensman" comic books out
there. If, as I hear, they're based on the Japanime storyline,
I'd appreciate it if no one ever shows me one.
=========================
Primary references used in the above compilation have been personal
knowledge; my own collection; Sam Moskowitz' error-ridden biographical
sketch of EES; the excellent concordance, "THE UNIVERSES OF E.E. SMITH"
by Ron Ellik and E.E. Evans; Robert A. Heinlein's appreciative article
"Larger Than Life," in "EXPANDED UNIVERSE;" sections of Lloyd
Arthur Eshbach's publishing history, "OVER MY SHOULDER;" and fifteen
years of insegrevious input from Jamie Hanrahan, (j...@cmkrnl.com),
constructor of the first non-Arisian Lens, who also declines any and
all responsibility for anything pertaining to Japanese anime versions
of "LENSMAN" novels.
Regards and appreciation to the EES fans named in the article above;
- to Bill Higgins--Beam Jockey, HIG...@FNAL.FNAL.GOV; inventor
of the Amazing Radioactive Fan, who has been identified by
"WEEKLY WORLD NEWS" investigators as a disguised Plooran;
- to James A. Corrick, who graciously provided accurate detail info
concerning the Ellern stories, and the 1968 "Blaster" paperbacks;
- to Michael Richards, rich...@maths.ox.ac.uk; and
- Jeff Cohen, je...@netcom.com, who spotted the *real* maximum
number of Worsellian optical sensors; and
- to Michael F. Hodous, mho...@cscs.ch, who caught me in an
insegreviously pfzticated set of name errors in an earlier
version of this FAQ.
Respectful homage to David A. Kyle, who, with great patience and
courtesy, politely suffered a number of inquisitional grillings
at WorldCon, 1993.
Source: ghar...@ccshp1.ccs.csus.edu (C) 1991,1992,1993,1994,1995,1996
address comments, queries, flames, idiopathic paeans of adulation, and
other such wrangling to alt.dev.null. 10Q.
Genuine additions of information to Source: above;
verified addenda will be included in subsequent FAQs,
and contributors acknowledged.
Electronic reproduction in whole is specifically authorized, as long
as no changes are made, copyright notices are retained, and full
credit is given.
=======================================================================
HTML WWW-browser version : http://168.150.253.1/~zlensman/lensfaq.html
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Terry L. Smith
: On 18 Mar 1996, Gharlane of Eddore wrote:
: > In <Pine.SOL.3.91.960318...@jove.acs.unt.edu>
: > Raymond Francis Fitzpatrick <fi...@jove.acs.unt.edu> writes:
: > >
: > ....<deletia>
: > >
: > > I'm helping this girl I'm sorta dating move this weekend. I find some
: > > repelling gear under the bed. I made SURE it was repelling gear,
: > > considering where she stashed it. Checked the ceiling for hooks, too.
: > >
: >
: >
: > For Ghreat Ghrotty Ghu's sake, the word is "rappelle."
: > "Rappelling."
: I have been rappelling... I thought the verb form was rappel...
: (unfortunately I don't have my dictionary handy--Murphy was an
: optimist.)
: ------
I dunno about the O.E.D., but in _Webster's New Twentieth Century
Dictionary (Unabridged)_, Second Edition, it *is* "rappel."
From the French _rappeler_, to repeal or revoke...
As Mr *of* Eddore pointed out, though, it *is* French we're
dealing with here, so ... well, maybe "rappel" is when a male
entity does it, and "rappelle" is when the entity doing the
'revoking' is female...
Who knows with the French? People who like to call each other
"My Little Cabbage" as a Term of *Endearment* may not be totally
scrutable, IMHO... :-)
"How ya doin', Punkin?"
- American colloquialism
- 'By For Now -
- M.Q.S., "Official Bimbo" for Baltimore; (SCOoF)
--
*--------------------------------------------------------------------*
| M.Q.S. c/o T.L.S | "Don't play with that! You have no idea where |
| tls...@netcom.com | it's been..." -- Speaker to Elevators |
*--------------------------------------------------------------------*
Terry L. Smith
: sus...@usa.pipeline.com(Susan <*>) writes:
: >
: ....<deletia>
: >
: > BTW, Gharlane is not a brain in a jar -- he has the cutest orange
: > velveteen nose; I've seen it. (sigh)
: >
WHAT!??! Susan, what are you implying here? The Evil Entity is a
Disembodied Brain in a Jar. He *has* no nose. I realize some have
mistaken him for an alien life-form, but ...but... that can't
be what you mean...
Oh no. No. You cannot *possibly* be implying that GoE is ...
is...
(one can hardly *think* it, let alone *type* it) ...is
a *Teddy Bear* ?!?
: Not velveteen, velour terrycloth.
: But you *do* have excellent taste in noses.
: You married, engaged, or otherwise preoccupied?
Hey. There's something going *on* here. Something *funny*.
Has anyone actually *seen* Susan lately? Mickers? Jay?
I thought so. She's been kidnapped. By You Know Hoo.
And he's forced her to write that.
The poor girl needs help. We ought to *do* something about this.
Susan, if you see this, next time Mr Eddore makes you post
something, try to use the *Secret Code* to tell us where you are,
and we'll rescue you!
Right, guys?
Uh, guys? ...why am I suddenly all alone here? Aaaaaacccckk-
Gharlane of Eddore
dene...@deepthot.cary.nc.us (Jay Denebeim) writes:
>
> In <4j85do$j...@news2.delphi.com>, Rick Cook <rc...@BIX.com> wrote:
>
> Oh cool, HI RICK! For a second there, I thought you were reading the
> b5 newsgroup, but then I saw the cross posts.
>
> To the B5ers, read Rick's books, they're fun.
>
The <EXON> with just "fun," which they are; but some of his work,
like "LIMBO SYSTEM," is pretty danged fine SF, too.
Mike Gannis
>In article <4j85do$j...@news2.delphi.com>, Rick Cook <rc...@BIX.com> wrote:
>
>Oh cool, HI RICK! For a second there, I thought you were reading the
>b5 newsgroup, but then I saw the cross posts.
>
>To the B5ers, read Rick's books, they're fun.
And to anyone else out there, I'll second that recommendation.
His most recent books, the "Wiz Zumwalt" series, is rigorous fantasy
(with a touch of humor) in the tradition of the Harold Shea stories -
if you like fantasy, you'll like them; if you like hard SF, you'll
like them. (Bonus: if you speak FORTH, the first book is a scream!)
Ahasuerus the Wandering Jew
> Smith's name is also on a book called "THE MASTERS OF SPACE,"
> which was actually an unfinished novel left by his friend
> E. Everett Evans. Smith finished it and sold it, primarily
> as a favor to Evans' widow. In subsequent paperback editions,
> the cover says "E. E. 'DOC' SMITH!" in large letters, since the
> publisher knew no one would lay out a nickel for a posthumous
> Evans book. It's good, solid, 1930's space opera; but since
> it was published around 1960, it didn't do too well. I
> believe there's a sequel, or related book, as well.
_Masters of Space_ was serialized in _If_ in 1961-62, but I have never
heard of any sequels/related items/etc. Anybody know?
--
Ahasuerus http://www.clark.net/pub/ahasuer/, including:
FAQs: rec.arts.sf.written, alt.pulp, the Liaden Universe
Biblios: how to write SF, the Wandering Jew, miscellaneous SF
Please consider posting (as opposed to e-mailing) ID requests
Terry L. Smith
: In article <4j85do$j...@news2.delphi.com>, Rick Cook <rc...@BIX.com> wrote:
: Oh cool, HI RICK! For a second there, I thought you were reading the
: b5 newsgroup, but then I saw the cross posts.
: To the B5ers, read Rick's books, they're fun.
: Jay
: --
Sure are!
Try the "Wizardry" series, and "MALL PURCHASE NIGHT".
When do we get the sequel to "MPN," Rick? And BTW, I think you
just *may* have been the most *interesting* "stripper" I ever saw!
( ...and I have the pictures to *prove* it... < chortle > )
"If A is a success in life, then A equals _x_ plus _y_ plus _z_.
Work is _x_; _y_ is play; and _z_ is keeping your mouth shut."
- Albert Einstein
- 'By For Now -
- M.Q.S., "Official Bimbo" for Baltimore; (SCOoF)
Rick Cook
>
>When do we get the sequel to "MPN," Rick? And BTW, I think you
>just *may* have been the most *interesting* "stripper" I ever saw!
>
>( ...and I have the pictures to *prove* it... < chortle > )
Geez, do a favor for a friend and it follows you for life.
--RC
Rick Cook
>
>His most recent books, the "Wiz Zumwalt" series, is rigorous fantasy
>(with a touch of humor) in the tradition of the Harold Shea stories -
>if you like fantasy, you'll like them; if you like hard SF, you'll
>like them. (Bonus: if you speak FORTH, the first book is a scream!)
>
:-)
--RC
Kim Wilkinson
: (Little do you realise the power Canada holds over you. After they had
: broadcast that special, we "exerted our influence" and now ANN broadcasts
: alongside the Dumont Network...)
Ah, but we here in Michigan *do* realize it! Especially the power
they hold over our very tiny minds, which are easily scrambled
by FOUR WEEKS of ...ahhhh, nice, warm, 50 degree day, then a 60
degree day, then a 65 degree day, then a *15* degree day with
wind chill of 14 below zero thanks to that ALBERTA clipper...
(Note to Non-US readers: all temperatures are given in Fahrenheit...)
: ---
: For every action, there is an equal and opposite criticism.
: <BRAG>Creator and maintainer of the Legions of Steel Web Page!</BRAG>
: http://www.hookup.net/~losglobl
--
Kim Wilkinson
*******"REPLY TO" this message WILL NOT WORK*********
email to kwil...@mailhost.pd5.ford.com
Madness takes its toll. Please have exact change.
"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend.
Inside a dog, it's too dark to read. " -Groucho Marx
My opinions do not come from my employer. Heck,
I don't know *where* they come from. Vorlons,
maybe...
E.M.P. Pringle
Steve Patterson <spatt...@wwdc.com> wrote:
>In article <sfdDor...@netcom.com>, s...@netcom.com (Scott Drellishak) says:
>
>>All right, I'm curious -- what's the *real* difference between "gray"
>>and "grey"? My dictionary says "variant spelling".
>
>looking for any way that they could differentiate themselves from their
>former masters. Thus, they deliberately changed the spelling of words in
>order to make themselves seperate.
>
>However, over here on the *civilized* side of the Great Lakes, the original
>spellings remain intact...
Are you sure? Ithought that in general the American spellings were the older
ones, the ones used in 17th century England, but going out of fashion by the
end of the 18th? Sam seems also to be true of differences in vocabulary eg.
'baseball' for rounders ('baseball' occurs in Northanger Abbey) and so on.
Although many of the words which are different are post-revolutionary ones,
come to think of it (I am particularly amused by the idea of a car wearing a
muffler..)
--
_______________________________________________________________________________
Miss Elizabeth Pringle |
Univ. Museum of Zoology | I knew a phoenix in my youth so let
Cambridge University, England | them have their day.
Chuck Buckley
Steve Patterson <spatt...@wwdc.com> wrote:
>In article <4j7klp$3...@rosebud.sdsc.edu>, Mike Gannis <mga...@sdsc.edu> says:
>>
>>tkoren <tko...@interlog.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Careful you might provoce another attempt by a certain country to take over this
>>>country. :)
>>
>>Remember, in the Draka universe ... we did. <grin>
>
>I gather that you're ignorant about Operation Short-Hairs, otherwise you'd
>realise how futile a US invasion attempt would be. Not to mention that
>fine plan, put together by Mackenzie King, that the American News Network
>leaked in their documentary "THE CANADIAN CONSPIRACY."
>
Hehehe.. But, Lorne Green is dead.. who rules now?
Maybe Canada *is* taking over US television.. You'll never actually
conquer us as we have countered by selling all tv's with remote controls..
No American male with a remote control will stay long enough on one show
for there to be any impact..
hmm.... hmmmm.. I tape 3 shows.. 2 are canadian.. maybe this *is*
working..
>(Little do you realise the power Canada holds over you. After they had
>broadcast that special, we "exerted our influence" and now ANN broadcasts
>alongside the Dumont Network...)
>
Charles Buckley
Terry L. Smith
: --RC
But of course. As my dad used to say, "No Good Deed ever goes
unpunished..." (I think he got that from RAH)
I'll send you copies. Maybe you should put them on your Web Page...
"Success is relative:
It is what we can make of the mess we have made of things."
T. S. Eliot
- 'By For Now -
- M.Q.S., "Official Bimbo" for Baltimore; (SCOoF)
C
Chuck Buckley
E.M.P. Pringle <em...@cus.cam.ac.uk> wrote:
>In article <4j3pf9$k...@obelix.helix.net>,
>Steve Patterson <spatt...@wwdc.com> wrote:
>>In article <sfdDor...@netcom.com>, s...@netcom.com (Scott Drellishak) says:
>>
>>>All right, I'm curious -- what's the *real* difference between "gray"
>>>and "grey"? My dictionary says "variant spelling".
>>
>>You see, after the Revolutionary War the newly-independant Americans were
>>looking for any way that they could differentiate themselves from their
>>former masters. Thus, they deliberately changed the spelling of words in
>>order to make themselves seperate.
>>
>>However, over here on the *civilized* side of the Great Lakes, the original
>>spellings remain intact...
>
>Are you sure? Ithought that in general the American spellings were the older
>ones, the ones used in 17th century England, but going out of fashion by the
>end of the 18th? Sam seems also to be true of differences in vocabulary eg.
>'baseball' for rounders ('baseball' occurs in Northanger Abbey) and so on.
>Although many of the words which are different are post-revolutionary ones,
>come to think of it (I am particularly amused by the idea of a car wearing a
>muffler..)
>
>--
No. The Americanized form of the language was formalized by Webster
in about the 1840's. British forms were formalized by Johnson in the 1780's.
(This refers to spelling, not grammar).
Webster intentionally changed the spelling of a lot of words that he felt
were not spelled well. (color for colour, governor for some god-awful spelling,
and a number of other words). So, there is a difference built in, then
the two languages diverged as new concepts were introduced and new words
entered use. (American english incorporates a lot more recently introduced
foreign words than does british english). There was never a formal,
comprehensive study done of american english grammar until the 1930's-1940's.
Spelling in the 17th century was a matter of opinion mostly. It was not
uncommon to see the words "gray" and "grey" used by the same writer in
different contexts. (Nor was it unusual to see Shakespeare mis-spell his
own name frequently. It was fairly common for families to change the
spelling of their own names, for example - Boleyn for Bullen).
Charles Buckley
Gharlane of Eddore
>
....<deletia>
>
> There is also a ten-book _Family D'Alembert_ series, from an outline by Doc
> Smith, written by Stephen Goldin. Not completely Doc Smith, but still worth
> it (though I think I'm about to be flamed by Gharlane for my bad taste B-)= ).
>
In <3159DC...@interlog.com> tkoren <tko...@interlog.com> writes:
>
...<deletia>
>
> Those wheren't bad.
>
Yes, they were. I just remembered a bit of information I posted in
July of '95, on "rec.arts.books," to a group of folks who were
looking for info on the series; herewith, a quote of a block of
that text: (*)
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The "Family D'Alembert" "series" was nothing but a short novel,
"THE IMPERIAL STARS," published in the May, 1964 issue of
the magazine, "Worlds of IF." Smith had one or two more very minor
pieces of the "Family D'Alembert" series in the pipeline, incomplete,
and a very rough, sketchy, highly incomplete outline for a possible
series. He died in summer, 1965.
In the seventies, Pyramid Books noticed that their paperback editions
of his other series were selling like cheap redeye when the drovers
reached Abilene, and made a deal with the estate to have another
"Doc Smith" series written. They funded one of their contract hacks,
a relatively undistinguished narrative typist named Stephen Goldin,
to whack out ten or so books set in a much-distorted, highly-expanded
version of the "IMPERIAL STARS" outline.
Goldin typed his untalented, technically incompetent, imagination-deprived
little fingers to the bone, and produced the books, which were published
in the latter half of the seventies, as by "E.E. 'Doc' Smith and Stephen
Goldin." THEY SHOULD BE CREDITED ONLY TO GOLDIN, considering the
amount of actual material in them that Smith produced.
After various circumlocutious dance steps by the estate executor and
various publishers, the E.E. Smith contract ended up over at Berkeley.
They republished the whole mess, with rotten cheap Jack Gaughan covers.
(The Pyramid originals didn't have great covers, but at least the paintings
were by Barr, instead Gaughan.)
The "Family D'Alembert" series should not be regarded as the work of
E.E. Smith, as good writing, or as competent Science Fiction. It is
an exercise in paid typing, executed by one of the more educationally-
challenged hacks working in the field. (By the way, Goldin *has*
done good work; see if you can find "HERDS," the second book printed
by "Laser," about twenty years back.)
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(*) I was not in a good mood that day.
Mike Gannis
>>His most recent books, the "Wiz Zumwalt" series, is rigorous fantasy
>>(with a touch of humor) in the tradition of the Harold Shea stories -
>>if you like fantasy, you'll like them; if you like hard SF, you'll
>>like them. (Bonus: if you speak FORTH, the first book is a scream!)
rc...@BIX.com (Rick Cook) added:
>And if you've ever been to Comdex. . . :-)
But *that* part wasn't science fiction! That was a documentary!
(Wasn't it?) I don't think it counts ... It *was* funny, though.
Terry L. Smith
: In article <4j3pf9$k...@obelix.helix.net>,
: Steve Patterson <spatt...@wwdc.com> wrote:
: >In article <sfdDor...@netcom.com>, s...@netcom.com (Scott Drellishak) says:
: >
: >>All right, I'm curious -- what's the *real* difference between "gray"
: >>and "grey"? My dictionary says "variant spelling".
: >
: >You see, after the Revolutionary War the newly-independant Americans were
: >looking for any way that they could differentiate themselves from their
: >former masters. Thus, they deliberately changed the spelling of words in
: >order to make themselves seperate.
: >
: >However, over here on the *civilized* side of the Great Lakes, the original
: >spellings remain intact...
: Are you sure? Ithought that in general the American spellings were the older
: ones, the ones used in 17th century England, but going out of fashion by the
: end of the 18th? Sam seems also to be true of differences in vocabulary eg.
: 'baseball' for rounders ('baseball' occurs in Northanger Abbey) and so on.
: Although many of the words which are different are post-revolutionary ones,
: come to think of it (I am particularly amused by the idea of a car wearing a
: muffler...)
And *my* friends who have no experience with English cars think it is
Hilarious when I speak of "Grandma Kitty's" "bonnet" or "boot."
At least I have gotten most of them to refrain from calling her a
**"Jag-wire"** - a recently developed pronunciation abomination
in current usage here in the States... < sigh >
Did you ever read any of the "Gothic Romances" which were so popular
in the '60s and '70s? _Northanger Abbey_ was *still* a delicious send-up
them, even if it *was* written 150 years earlier. (Glad that Emma
won that Oscar, BTW. Wish she had won the other one, too... )
"There even are places where English completely disappears. In
America, for example, they haven't spoken it for years!"
- 'Professor Henry Higgins'
- Alan Jay Lerner
- 'By For Now -
- M.Q.S., "Official Bimbo" for Baltimore; (SCOoF)
tkoren
> _Spacehounds of the IPC_.
That should have been _Spacehounds of the IRS_ :)
> There is also a ten-book _Family D'Alembert_ series, from an outline by Doc
> Smith, written by Stephen Goldin. Not completely Doc Smith, but still worth
> it (though I think I'm about to be flamed by Gharlane for my bad taste B-)= ).
>
Those wheren't bad.
Liav.
tkoren
>
> Steve Patterson wrote:
> >>
> >> However, over here on the *civilized* side of the Great Lakes, the original
> >> spellings remain intact...
>
>
> >Careful you might provoce another attempt by a certain country to take over this
> >country. :)
>
> Remember, in the Draka universe ... we did. <grin>
I haven't read those, and now I definitely won't! ;)
Liav.
Francis A. Ney, Jr.
In article <4jb9fc$i...@news2.delphi.com> rc...@BIX.com writes:
> Mike Gannis wrote:
> >
> >His most recent books, the "Wiz Zumwalt" series, is rigorous fantasy
> >(with a touch of humor) in the tradition of the Harold Shea stories -
> >if you like fantasy, you'll like them; if you like hard SF, you'll
> >like them. (Bonus: if you speak FORTH, the first book is a scream!)
> >
> And if you've ever been to Comdex. . .
>
> :-)
Never been to Comdex, but I've been to FOSE...
---
Frank Ney WV/EMT-B VA/EMT-A N4ZHG LPWV NRA(L) GOA CCRKBA JPFO
Sponsor, BATF Abuse page http://www.access.digex.net/~croaker/batfabus.html
West Virginia Coordinator, Libertarian Second Amendment Caucus
"[E]lections amount to no more than choosing between the scum that floats to
the top of the barrel and the dregs that settle to the bottom."
- L. Neil Smith
Steve Andrews
em...@cus.cam.ac.uk writes:
>Are you sure? Ithought that in general the American spellings were the older
>ones, the ones used in 17th century England, but going out of fashion by the
>end of the 18th? Sam seems also to be true of differences in vocabulary eg.
>'baseball' for rounders ('baseball' occurs in Northanger Abbey) and so on.
>Although many of the words which are different are post-revolutionary ones,
>come to think of it (I am particularly amused by the idea of a car wearing a
As am I by the idea of a car having a bonnet...
Steve A.
stephen...@gsfc.nasa.gov or sfa...@gsfc.nasa.gov
http://sandrews.gsfc.nasa.gov
Terry L. Smith
: Mike Gannis wrote:
: >>His most recent books, the "Wiz Zumwalt" series, is rigorous fantasy
: >>(with a touch of humor) in the tradition of the Harold Shea stories -
: >>if you like fantasy, you'll like them; if you like hard SF, you'll
: >>like them. (Bonus: if you speak FORTH, the first book is a scream!)
: rc...@BIX.com (Rick Cook) added:
: >And if you've ever been to Comdex. . . :-)
: But *that* part wasn't science fiction! That was a documentary!
: (Wasn't it?) I don't think it counts ... It *was* funny, though.
Mr R. Cook writes *nothing* but documentaries and other non-fiction.
If you are under some other impression, perhaps you, too, were
affected by the latest Tachyon Storm, and should ask the Mr.
Eddore of *this* universe about a play called... "STREETCAR
NAMED DESIRE." One of the Mr. Eddores who popped up here for
a while seemed to think the *correct* title was "*A* STREETCAR
NAMED DESIRE."
We haven't heard from *him* lately. I think my Mom's Ghost, and
Beth, may have had something to do with that...
"Art and Music will thrive without you;
Somehow Keats will survive, without you..."
- 'Eliza Doolittle'
- Alan Jay Lerner
- Later! -
- M.Q.S., "Boss Babe" for Boston; (SMOF)
Gharlane of Eddore
>
> "There even are places where English completely disappears. In
> America, for example, they haven't spoken it for years!"
> - 'Professor Henry Higgins'
> - Alan Jay Lerner
>
Nope.
"There even..are places..where English..
COMPLETELY disappears.
(In America, they haven't used it for years.)"
--- Prof. H. Higgins
The extraneous verbiage you tack in destroys the impact, because to
effect delivery, in meter, the actor would have to outrace the
third repeat of the Major General's song, just to get the extra
syllables in before the orchestra got three bars ahead......
Once, at the Palladium, I heard Harrison deliver it as
"...they've not used it for years." -- which fits fine.
Francis A. Ney, Jr.
>
> Francis A. Ney, Jr. wrote:
>
> > _Spacehounds of the IPC_.
>
> That should have been _Spacehounds of the IRS_ :)
Rub it in that I work for the enemy, why don't you?
tkoren
> The poor girl needs help. We ought to *do* something about this.
> Susan, if you see this, next time Mr Eddore makes you post
> something, try to use the *Secret Code* to tell us where you are,
> and we'll rescue you!
>
> Right, guys?
>
> Uh, guys? ...why am I suddenly all alone here? Aaaaaacccckk-
We are currently off saving the galaxy from ticked off spam leave a message at
the sound of the beep...
Liav.
Rick Cook
>
>But *that* part wasn't science fiction! That was a documentary!
>(Wasn't it?) I don't think it counts ... It *was* funny, though.
Mike, when I was last at Comdex I had a relevation. Here I was sitting in
the press room at the Fall Comdex when I looked around and realized there
are some things which are impossible to parody. An attempted parody is
merely a design document for the next iteration.
Comdex and Las Vegas both fall in that category.
--RC
Rick Cook
> (Glad that Emma won that Oscar, BTW. Wish she had won the other one,
too... )
When she got the part about the crows observing the flatulent horse I
thought I'd die.
(So it's not SF or fantasy yet. Never fear. It will be. I _gotta_ write a
fantasy including a flatulent horse -- no, make it a flautlent dragon!)
--RC
Gharlane of Eddore
tls...@netcom.com (Terry L. Smith) histrionicizes:
>
> If you are under some other impression, perhaps you, too, were
> affected by the latest Tachyon Storm, and should ask the Mr.
> Eddore of *this* universe about a play called... "STREETCAR
> NAMED DESIRE." One of the Mr. Eddores who popped up here for
> a while seemed to think the *correct* title was "*A* STREETCAR
> NAMED DESIRE."
The *proper* title, of course, is "A LORRY CALLED DESIREE."
The Broadway opening-night cast included Orson Wells in the
lead, although he was later replaced by a southern church-theater
actor, Aaron Presley. (The latter is also known for the song
lyrics he wrote under the name E.A. Presley, for the "THREE TOPS"
singing group.) Mr. Presley is largely forgotten, these days,
since he led a very quiet off-stage life, never drinking or smoking,
and saved his money for an early retirement. He now owns and
operates the well-respected "Hound Dog Lodge" and "Lord's Paradise
Ski Resort" in the Grand Tetons.
Orson Wells, of course, was elected President in 1960, and assassinated
in November of 1963 by one of the infamous Kennedy Boys... but I digress.
> We haven't heard from *him* lately. I think my Mom's Ghost, and
> Beth, may have had something to do with that...
Beth can't come to the terminal right now; she's all tied up.
>
> "Art and Music will thrive without you;
> Somehow Keats will survive, without you..."
> - 'Eliza Doolittle'
> - Alan Jay Lerner
>
>
> - Later! -
>
> - M.Q.S., "Boss Babe" for Boston; (SMOF)
Harrumph. What's going on here? Last *I* heard, MQS was a
charter member of the B.A.R., The Bimbos of the American Revolution,
and a SCOoF, not a SMOF.....
And wasn't Boston *NUKED* during the Great Jell-O Crisis of 1973?
I thought the place was still too hot for people to live there....
Terry L. Smith
: >
: > "There even are places where English completely disappears. In
: > America, for example, they haven't spoken it for years!"
: > - 'Professor Henry Higgins'
: > - Alan Jay Lerner
: >
: Nope.
:
: "There even..are places..where English..
: COMPLETELY disappears.
: (In America, they haven't used it for years.)"
: --- Prof. H. Higgins
:
:
You are probably right. My scripts are all packed up, and in storage,
so I can't check at the moment.
I *did*, however, spend more than a few hours on stage, listening
to "'Enry 'Iggins" say that line *exactly* as I quoted it, so I
guess it is engraved in my memory that way...
No one complained at the time, so I didn't check. I never really
*studied* the men's parts, anyway... And it's been a while.
I wish I could remember the one really *obvious* goof that
Harrison made in the movie. Haven't got a tape of it, so can't check
*that* right now, either. You remember that one, oh Evil One?
< duck > < CRASH tinkle thump thudthud thud >
: The extraneous verbiage you tack in destroys the impact, because to
: effect delivery, in meter, the actor would have to outrace the
: third repeat of the Major General's song, just to get the extra
: syllables in before the orchestra got three bars ahead......
Really? It sure got a *huge* laugh, so I guess no one was
bothered by the destruction; the delivery was clear and ringing,
and made the point just fine...
"In AMERICA .. for example, .. theyhaven'tspokenit for YEARS!"
( That's as close an approximation as I can reproduce, here...)
...... orchestra then "picks up," after pause for laugh ...
[That *particular* actor had long experience with G&S, and was
*excellent* at the "patter songs, now that you mention it.
He also liked to perform that "Russian Composers" song.
(Was that originally a Danny Kaye "number?")]
And I thought the "In America..." line *was* performed in
a moment of orchestral silence... rather as an "aside."
(In which case, being "in meter" would not be as significant.)
Anyone remember if that's so or not?
: Once, at the Palladium, I heard Harrison deliver it as
: "...they've not used it for years." -- which fits fine.
If you say so.
Okay, here's another "quotation," also from memory, so maybe it's
wrong, too...
"Every time we turned around,
There he was, that hairy hound..."
- "Henry Higgins ( _My Fair Lady_)
- Alan Jay Lerner
- 'By For Now -
- M.Q.S., "Official Bimbo" for Baltimore; (SCOoF)
Terry L. Smith
: --RC
Just so you bring in some more "Chocolate Covered Brownies."
;-)
"Food, Glorious Food..."
_ "OLIVER"
- 'By For Now -
- M.Q.S., "Official Bimbo" for Baltimore; (SCOoF)
C
Terry L. Smith
: >
: > If you are under some other impression, perhaps you, too, were
: > affected by the latest Tachyon Storm, and should ask the Mr.
: > Eddore of *this* universe about a play called... "STREETCAR
: > NAMED DESIRE." One of the Mr. Eddores who popped up here for
: > a while seemed to think the *correct* title was "*A* STREETCAR
: > NAMED DESIRE."
: The *proper* title, of course, is "A LORRY CALLED DESIREE."
: The Broadway opening-night cast included Orson Wells in the
: lead, although he was later replaced by a southern church-theater
: actor, Aaron Presley. (The latter is also known for the song
: lyrics he wrote under the name E.A. Presley, for the "THREE TOPS"
: singing group.) Mr. Presley is largely forgotten, these days,
: since he led a very quiet off-stage life, never drinking or smoking,
: and saved his money for an early retirement. He now owns and
: operates the well-respected "Hound Dog Lodge" and "Lord's Paradise
: Ski Resort" in the Grand Tetons.
Oh, Cri-men-EEE. Another one. And is *this* one ever confused.
Look, "Gharlane" of Wherever, it is *quite* well known, in THIS
universe, that "E.A. Presley" was the original name of the
brilliant actor, Rikkard Chamberlain, who got his Big Break
playing the adorably Southern-accented "Dr. Kildare" in the old
TV series of the same name - and who, following that series, went
to England, studied *real* acting for years, and in the process
acquired an even *more* enticing *British* accent.
No one ever expected him to win an 'Oscar," when he first started
out, let alone four (and wasn't his acceptance speech on Monday
*gracious*, BTW?). And of *course* the "Knighing" by King
Charles was a complete surprise...
I can't *wait* to see what Sir Rikkard does with that "double
role" JMS somehow persuaded him to do on the *very first* "BABYLON
FOUR" episode (post transition). The Brit-accented Vorlon will be
cool, i'm sure, but what I *really* wanna see is him digging out
the ol' Southern accent to do the EA guerilla General...
.
: Orson Wells, of course, was elected President in 1960, and assassinated
: in November of 1963 by one of the infamous Kennedy Boys... but I digress.
Orson WHO? ANd do you mean the Kennedys who are always running for
office in the local Boston elections, and losing? (Well, rich
kids have to have *some* amusements, I suppose... At least Bobby
had the sense to go to Hollywood and become a character actor. He's
turned into a pretty good director, too, IMNSHO.)
: > We haven't heard from *him* lately. I think my Mom's Ghost, and
: > Beth, may have had something to do with that...
: Beth can't come to the terminal right now; she's all tied up.
Okay guys, pay attention. *This* one might bear watching. Go
see if Beth's at home, will you, Mick?
: >
: > "Art and Music will thrive without you;
: > Somehow Keats will survive, without you..."
: > - 'Eliza Doolittle'
: > - Alan Jay Lerner
: >
: >
: > - Later! -
: >
: > - M.Q.S., "Boss Babe" for Boston; (SMOF)
: Harrumph. What's going on here? Last *I* heard, MQS was a
: charter member of the B.A.R., The Bimbos of the American Revolution,
: and a SCOoF, not a SMOF.....
What the H*** is a "SCOoF?" And how DARE you call me a "Bimbo?"
*THAT* is a %XX#@X% *insult*. I've been Boss Babe for *years*,
and don't you forget it. Just ask Gary.
: And wasn't Boston *NUKED* during the Great Jell-O Crisis of 1973?
: I thought the place was still too hot for people to live there....
Is *he* ever out of it. As we all know, Boston, though Damn near
destroyed in the Great Boston Molasses Flood of January 15, 1919,
has been rebuilt *beautifully*, and has been thriving for many
many years under the leadership of Mayor Buckley.
Sheeeesh.... Get this phony "Gharlane" a clue, somebody...
"Make my day..."
- Jack Nicholson ( "DIRTY HARRY" )
- Later! -
- M.Q.S., "Boss Babe" for Boston; (SMOF)
Godfrey van der Linden
writes:
> In article <4j3pf9$k...@obelix.helix.net>,
> Steve Patterson <spatt...@wwdc.com> wrote:
> >In article <sfdDor...@netcom.com>, s...@netcom.com (Scott Drellishak)
says:
> >
> >However, over here on the *civilized* side of the Great Lakes, the original
> >spellings remain intact...
Its odd that you use this as an example. I remember an Inspector Morse mystery
from: 'Ghost in the machine' which revolved around whether or not '-ized' is
spelled with a zed or an ess. Surprisingly to me the good Inspector claims
that all 'educated' people spell 'realise' with an ess. I further infered that
using a zed is beneath contempt.
Puzzling pronouncements from Morse for now I'm totally confused. Did the
'wonderful' writers of Inspector Morse get it wrong?
Godfrey van der Linden
Matt Hickman
>Terry L. Smith wrote:
>> (Glad that Emma won that Oscar, BTW. Wish she had won the other one,
>too... )
>BTW: Did you see her on "Leno" discussing filming the movie in England.
>When she got the part about the crows observing the flatulent horse I
>thought I'd die.
>
>(So it's not SF or fantasy yet. Never fear. It will be. I _gotta_ write a
>fantasy including a flatulent horse -- no, make it a flautlent dragon!)
Didn't Heinlein have a flatulent dragon in _Glory Road_? I seem to
remember that the sewer gas was coming out both ends, but I could
easily be wrong.
Matt Hickman bh...@chevron.com TANSTAAFL!
OS/2 Systems Specialist, Chevron Information Technologies Co.
...its a hell of a note when you can't even kill a dragon and
feel lighthearted afterwards.
Robert A. Heinlein (1907 - 1988)
_Glory Road_ 1963
John Moreno
Nope,your wrong. The both ends dragon will be the new improved model but
it hasn't been released yet to the general public.
John Moreno
tkoren
> Nope,your wrong. The both ends dragon will be the new improved model but
> it hasn't been released yet to the general public.
>
How you going to deal with fire regs? :)
Liav.