~!!! GHARLANE EXPOSED !!!~

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Terry L. Smith

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Mar 12, 1996, 3:00:00 AM3/12/96
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Well, Hi there, again, genre fans!

The Bimbo has a thrilling announcement for y'all, so listen up.

You better get those Hugo Nominating Ballots in before Saturday, the
16th of March. Midnight Friday is the last time your postmark will
be valid. So hurry it up now...

[ See previous post "**!** Hugo Nominations Deadline **!**"
for serious details ]

And *don't forget that "electronic media writing" is perfectly
acceptable when considering someone for nomination as "Best Fan
Writer."

You got five nominations in each category. Use 'em well. As for
"Best Fan Writer," *this* year, I'm going to fill out all *five*
spots. And *this* year, they're *all* gonna be people who (at
least primarily) do their "Fan Writing" on the Internet.

Here are four writers I am considering. I will nominate THREE
of them for sure. < g > (maybe all four ... maybe not...)

1: Gary Farber - always popping up over on rec.arts.sf.fandom.
often funny, sometimes informative, usually interesting

2: Nancy Lebovitz - Interesting comments, frequently answers
requests for help, pertinent remarks

3: Rick Cook - Okay, he's a pro. But he *also* writes as a
"fan." And I am always intrigued by what he has to say

** and for those who were wondering just *what* the title of
this article has to do with it's *content*... **

4: "Gharlane of Eddore" - That's right. The Evil One. Sure,
he irritates me sometimes. But he's as informative as anyone
writing in the genre today, he is sometimes *very* funny, and
he, like Nancy, very often promptly and courteously answers
fans' requests for information. I'm sure *considering* him
for a nomination...

[ shhhhhhh.... don't want mr. eddore to *hear* this...
wouldn't it be a *scream* if he got nominated and then **won**?
gharlane *exposed*!!! would the evil one *dare* accept
his hugo??? stay tuned ... and vote ...for further
developments. (film at eleven, after the awards.)

and now I gotta run *real fast* for that Bomb Shelter, folks,
before GoE realizes what's been *done* to him...!!!

See you all there! < chortle >

( and think about who you're gonna nominate, 'kay? )


"'I like a girl with spirit,' he said, incorrectly as it
turned out."
- Terry Pratchett


- 'By For Now -

M.Q.S., "Official Bimbo" for Baltimore; (SCOoF)

p.s. - I want to BE there when they carry in that Disembodied
Brain in a Jar for "The Ceremonies!" <giggle>

--
*--------------------------------------------------------------------*
| M.Q.S. c/o T.L.S | "Don't play with that! You have no idea where |
| tls...@netcom.com | it's been..." -- Speaker to Elevators |
*--------------------------------------------------------------------*


Gary Farber

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Mar 12, 1996, 3:00:00 AM3/12/96
to Terry L. Smith
On Tue, 12 Mar 1996, Terry L. Smith wrote:

> Here are four writers I am considering. I will nominate THREE
> of them for sure. < g > (maybe all four ... maybe not...)
>
> 1: Gary Farber - always popping up over on rec.arts.sf.fandom.
> often funny, sometimes informative, usually interesting

Goshwowboyohboy, thanks. This is very perceptive of you. :-) You are
clearly a person of keen discrimination, taste, and intelligence. I'll
bet you also have a sensitive fannish face. (I write for fanzines as
well, not to mention for money: practice helps.)

<snip>

> [ shhhhhhh.... don't want mr. eddore to *hear* this...

That's "Mr. *of* Eddore" to *you*. Careful, or he'll throw a mental bolt
at you that will singe your socks off. I think he's been oppressing
Delgonians, but don't tell anyone.

-- Gary Farber Middlemiss gfa...@panix.com
Copyright 1996 for DUFF Brooklyn, NY, USA

Stephanie Mortimer

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Mar 13, 1996, 3:00:00 AM3/13/96
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In article <tlsmithD...@netcom.com>, tls...@netcom.com (Terry L.
Smith) wrote:


> You better get those Hugo Nominating Ballots in before Saturday, the
> 16th of March. Midnight Friday is the last time your postmark will
> be valid. So hurry it up now...
>
>

> And *don't forget that "electronic media writing" is perfectly
> acceptable when considering someone for nomination as "Best Fan
> Writer."
>

> Here are four writers I am considering.
>

> 1: Gary Farber - always popping up over on rec.arts.sf.fandom.
> often funny, sometimes informative, usually interesting
>

> 2: Nancy Lebovitz - Interesting comments, frequently answers
> requests for help, pertinent remarks
>
> 3: Rick Cook - Okay, he's a pro. But he *also* writes as a
> "fan." And I am always intrigued by what he has to say
>

> 4: "Gharlane of Eddore" - That's right. The Evil One. Sure,
> he irritates me sometimes. But he's as informative as anyone
> writing in the genre today, he is sometimes *very* funny, and
> he, like Nancy, very often promptly and courteously answers
> fans' requests for information. I'm sure *considering* him
> for a nomination...

Yes - especially Gharlane! You know, I've heard that Harlan Ellison has
complained that usenet is full of misinformation, but Gharlane has
singlehandedly (or whatever) improved the signal to noise ratio. Gharlane
not only gently corrects posters who have not done their homework, but he
does it with style.

As mentioned elsewhere, don't forget these other talented usenet writers:
(copied from previous post - sorry I forget who listed them originally).

Seth Breidbart
"Ahasuerus the Wandering Jew"
Evelyn C. Leeper
Chaz Baden
Jay Denebeim
Arthur D. Hlavaty
Patrick Nielsen Hayden
rich brown a.k.a. DrGafia
Rick Cook
Lawrence Watt-Evans


>
> p.s. - I want to BE there when they carry in that Disembodied

> Brain in a Jar for "The Ceremonies!" (giggle deleted)
Me too!
>
By the way - I have a nominating sheet for the Hugos but I had decided not
to vote since there are so many good works out there and I haven't read
even a small fraction of them. Can anyone suggest the best way to keep
up-to-date on what is being done in the field? Also, could this newsgroup
be considered a fanzine?

--


Brett Middleton

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Mar 13, 1996, 3:00:00 AM3/13/96
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Gary Farber <gfa...@panix.com> wrote:
[re: Gharlane's current hobbies]

>That's "Mr. *of* Eddore" to *you*. Careful, or he'll throw a mental bolt
>at you that will singe your socks off. I think he's been oppressing
>Delgonians, but don't tell anyone.
^^^^^^^^^^

When did "Sliders" fandom pick *that* name? B-)

Brett

*SLMW 1.0* Do not disturb. Already disturbed.

Raymond Francis Fitzpatrick

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Mar 13, 1996, 3:00:00 AM3/13/96
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On Tue, 12 Mar 1996, Gary Farber wrote:

> On Tue, 12 Mar 1996, Terry L. Smith wrote:

> > 1: Gary Farber - always popping up over on rec.arts.sf.fandom.
> > often funny, sometimes informative, usually interesting
>

> Goshwowboyohboy, thanks. This is very perceptive of you. :-) You are
> clearly a person of keen discrimination, taste, and intelligence. I'll

Intelligence:Yes.
Taste: I'll have to get back to you on that. What are you doing Sat
night, Miss Bimbeaux?

[duck]

Sleeping vertically,
DorMouse


Gary Farber

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Mar 13, 1996, 3:00:00 AM3/13/96
to
Stephanie Mortimer (ruff...@cts.com) wrote:
: By the way - I have a nominating sheet for the Hugos but I had decided not

: to vote since there are so many good works out there and I haven't read
: even a small fraction of them.

Very few people indeed read all the good sf published these days,
whatever your metric for "good sf" is. It makes sense to nominate that
which you think is truly of high quality, and then read the five nominees
in each category when the final ballot is issued. Five works in each
fiction category is not an excessive load to read.

: Can anyone suggest the best way to keep


: up-to-date on what is being done in the field?

Subscribing to "Science Fiction Chronicle" and "Locus" is one good start,
of course, if you have no other sources. Read rec.arts.sf.written if all
else fails. Bring a filter and plenty of patience. Sarcastic wit is
optional.

: Also, could this newsgroup be considered a fanzine?

You are cross-posting to three newsgroups, but in any case, though it
would be up to the Hugo Subcommittee to make a ruling (David Bratman and
Seth Goldberg this year, I believe), I would argue that the answer is
"no." I doubt David and Seth would disagree, though I haven't asked
them. Newsgroups don't meet any of the Constitutional requirements, and
are certainly not edited. Who would you propose accept such a reward,
assuming David and Seth were struck by brain fever and ruled that newsgroups
were eligible?
--

tkoren

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Mar 14, 1996, 3:00:00 AM3/14/96
to Terry L. Smith
Terry L. Smith wrote:

< way big snip>

> p.s. - I want to BE there when they carry in that Disembodied

> Brain in a Jar for "The Ceremonies!" <giggle>


Your having way way to much fun with this :-)
Liav

Matt Hickman

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Mar 14, 1996, 3:00:00 AM3/14/96
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In <tlsmithD...@netcom.com>, tls...@netcom.com (Terry L. Smith) writes:
>
>And *don't forget that "electronic media writing" is perfectly
>acceptable when considering someone for nomination as "Best Fan
>Writer."

>1: Gary Farber - always popping up over on rec.arts.sf.fandom.


> often funny, sometimes informative, usually interesting

After starting the "A Heinlein Anecdote" thread, Faber deserves
something, but don't you think it is "sending the wrong message"
to give him a Hugo? 8-)

Matt Hickman bh...@chevron.com TANSTAAFL!
OS/2 Systems Specialist, Chevron Information Technologies Co.
Thorby, my skinny and retarded brother -- I think you
were dropped on your head. But sorry as your are, I love
you for the fumbling grace with which you wipe the drool
off your chin. (Fritz Krausa)
- Robert A. Heinlein _Citizen of the Galaxy_


Bruce Welch

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Mar 14, 1996, 3:00:00 AM3/14/96
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In article <tlsmithD...@netcom.com>, Terry L. Smith wrote:

[snip]

: ** and for those who were wondering just *what* the title of


:this article has to do with it's *content*... **

:
:4: "Gharlane of Eddore" - That's right. The Evil One. Sure,


: he irritates me sometimes. But he's as informative as anyone
: writing in the genre today, he is sometimes *very* funny, and
: he, like Nancy, very often promptly and courteously answers
: fans' requests for information. I'm sure *considering* him
: for a nomination...

:
: [ shhhhhhh.... don't want mr. eddore to *hear* this...
: wouldn't it be a *scream* if he got nominated and then **won**?


: gharlane *exposed*!!! would the evil one *dare* accept
: his hugo??? stay tuned ... and vote ...for further
: developments. (film at eleven, after the awards.)
:
:and now I gotta run *real fast* for that Bomb Shelter, folks,
:before GoE realizes what's been *done* to him...!!!

:

Having played the "Gharlane identity game", I hold out what may be your
only hope of survival - adopt a cat.

--
this signature being renovated ... excuse the mess


tkoren

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Mar 14, 1996, 3:00:00 AM3/14/96
to Stephanie Mortimer
Stephanie Mortimer wrote:

> By the way - I have a nominating sheet for the Hugos but I had decided not
> to vote since there are so many good works out there and I haven't read

> even a small fraction of them. Can anyone suggest the best way to keep


> up-to-date on what is being done in the field?

Quit your job, lock your doors, rip out your phones, don't eat, sleep or do anything
else but read sf :) If you follow my advice you'll probally be able to read a good
percent of the stuff out there. Of course it's not the greatest thing for your health.
Liav.

Terry L. Smith

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Mar 15, 1996, 3:00:00 AM3/15/96
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Raymond Francis Fitzpatrick (fi...@jove.acs.unt.edu) wrote:

: On Tue, 12 Mar 1996, Gary Farber wrote:

: > On Tue, 12 Mar 1996, Terry L. Smith wrote:

: > > 1: Gary Farber - always popping up over on rec.arts.sf.fandom.


: > > often funny, sometimes informative, usually interesting

: >
: > Goshwowboyohboy, thanks. This is very perceptive of you. :-) You are


: > clearly a person of keen discrimination, taste, and intelligence. I'll

: Intelligence:Yes.
: Taste: I'll have to get back to you on that. What are you doing Sat
: night, Miss Bimbeaux?

Why do you ask?

What did you have in mind?

I'll probably go to an SF gathering... Where I may acquire a new
Fiance. I think I may have time for one before it's *my* turn
to re-decorate Roger's House. I'll have to check my Fiance Log
and see.

And BTW, it's never too late for a Blond to start acquiring
Fiancees. You should escort a different Fiancee to every Con
you attend, Mickers. This will either Greatly Enhance or
Ruin Completely your Reputation. Or both.


: [duck]

Canard.

.
: Sleeping vertically,
: DorMouse


Huh? Did I miss something there? I thought those Mimbari beds were
just *tilted*...


"You must _not_ forget the suspenders, Best Beloved."
- Rudyard Kipling

- 'By For Now -

- M.Q.S., "Official Bimbo" for Baltimore; (SCOoF)

--

tkoren

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Mar 16, 1996, 3:00:00 AM3/16/96
to Gary Farber
Gary Farber wrote:
>
> On Tue, 12 Mar 1996, Terry L. Smith wrote:
>
> > Here are four writers I am considering. I will nominate THREE
> > of them for sure. < g > (maybe all four ... maybe not...)
> >
> > 1: Gary Farber - always popping up over on rec.arts.sf.fandom.
> > often funny, sometimes informative, usually interesting
>
> Goshwowboyohboy, thanks. This is very perceptive of you. :-) You are
> clearly a person of keen discrimination, taste, and intelligence. I'll
> bet you also have a sensitive fannish face. (I write for fanzines as
> well, not to mention for money: practice helps.)
>
> <snip>
>
> > [ shhhhhhh.... don't want mr. eddore to *hear* this...
>
> That's "Mr. *of* Eddore" to *you*. Careful, or he'll throw a mental bolt
> at you that will singe your socks off. I think he's been oppressing
> Delgonians, but don't tell anyone.

Really, can *"Mr. *of* Eddore"* do that through a phone line? I thought you
have to have a transblaster sighted on the person &/or a toe nail cliping :)
Liav.

Raymond Francis Fitzpatrick

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Mar 18, 1996, 3:00:00 AM3/18/96
to
On Sat, 16 Mar 1996, tkoren wrote:
>
> Really, can *"Mr. *of* Eddore"* do that through a phone line? I thought you
> have to have a transblaster sighted on the person &/or a toe nail cliping :)
> Liav.
All you need is a strand of hair and some imagination.
Some sneaky bastards help too.

MFinn
(Somebody, anybody...get Cook do finish the damn series? :} )


Raymond Francis Fitzpatrick

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Mar 18, 1996, 3:00:00 AM3/18/96
to
On Fri, 15 Mar 1996, Terry L. Smith wrote:

> Raymond Francis Fitzpatrick (fi...@jove.acs.unt.edu) wrote:
> : Intelligence:Yes.
> : Taste: I'll have to get back to you on that. What are you doing Sat
> : night, Miss Bimbeaux?
>
> Why do you ask?
>
> What did you have in mind?

*slurp*

>
> I'll probably go to an SF gathering... Where I may acquire a new
> Fiance. I think I may have time for one before it's *my* turn
> to re-decorate Roger's House. I'll have to check my Fiance Log
> and see.
>

Marry me.

*there*


> And BTW, it's never too late for a Blond to start acquiring
> Fiancees. You should escort a different Fiancee to every Con
> you attend, Mickers. This will either Greatly Enhance or
> Ruin Completely your Reputation. Or both.
>

Fiancee? Well, I have been known to propose. Of course, I was being
massaged or fed chocolate at the time.
(Hmmm. Just noticed how closely related fiancee & finances were realted,
spelling wise)
>
> : [duck]
>
> Canard.
>
Cantard.

> .
> : Sleeping vertically,
> : DorMouse
>
>
> Huh? Did I miss something there? I thought those Mimbari beds were
> just *tilted*...
>

And what do the Minbari believe sleeping vertically does?
*adjusts her glasses*

>
> "You must _not_ forget the suspenders, Best Beloved."
> - Rudyard Kipling
>

I'm helping this girl I'm sorta dating move this weekend. I find some
repelling gear under the bed. I made SURE it was repelling gear,
considering where she stashed it. Checked the ceiling for hooks, too.


Pining away but keep meeting lumberjacks,
Mickers


Gharlane of Eddore

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Mar 18, 1996, 3:00:00 AM3/18/96
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In <Pine.SOL.3.91.960318...@jove.acs.unt.edu>
Raymond Francis Fitzpatrick <fi...@jove.acs.unt.edu> writes:
>
....<deletia>

>
> I'm helping this girl I'm sorta dating move this weekend. I find some
> repelling gear under the bed. I made SURE it was repelling gear,
> considering where she stashed it. Checked the ceiling for hooks, too.
>


For Ghreat Ghrotty Ghu's sake, the word is "rappelle."
"Rappelling."

I know that the loons and retards who like to climb up hard rock faces
and fall back down didn't graduate from sixth grade and don't know the
difference between "repel" and "rappelle," but you MIGHT want to find
out what the two different words mean before you go out in public
with a computer terminal again.

I *presumed* you were discussing "repelling" things under her bed
until you started talking about hooks in the ceiling, and realized
that the imputed absence of hooks implied that you were probably talking
about "rappelling gear" instead.

In other words, your lack of attention to spelling communicated something
far different than you'd intended, because you didn't know what words
you were trying to use.

Good luck on achieving some familiarity with English before you attempt
to post again.....

Francis A. Ney, Jr.

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Mar 19, 1996, 3:00:00 AM3/19/96
to

> (Somebody, anybody...get Cook do finish the damn series? :} )

He is, he is. One sentence at a time between bolt tightenings, I understand.

---
Frank Ney WV/EMT-B VA/EMT-A N4ZHG LPWV NRA(L) GOA CCRKBA JPFO
Sponsor, BATF Abuse page http://www.access.digex.net/~croaker/batfabus.html
West Virginia Coordinator, Libertarian Second Amendment Caucus
"[E]lections amount to no more than choosing between the scum that floats to
the top of the barrel and the dregs that settle to the bottom."
- L. Neil Smith


Francis A. Ney, Jr.

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Mar 19, 1996, 3:00:00 AM3/19/96
to

> I'm helping this girl I'm sorta dating move this weekend. I find some
> repelling gear under the bed. I made SURE it was repelling gear,
> considering where she stashed it. Checked the ceiling for hooks, too.

ROTFLMAO!

Raymond Francis Fitzpatrick

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Mar 19, 1996, 3:00:00 AM3/19/96
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On 18 Mar 1996, Gharlane of Eddore wrote:

> In <Pine.SOL.3.91.960318...@jove.acs.unt.edu>
> Raymond Francis Fitzpatrick <fi...@jove.acs.unt.edu> writes:
> >
> ....<deletia>
> >

> > I'm helping this girl I'm sorta dating move this weekend. I find some
> > repelling gear under the bed. I made SURE it was repelling gear,
> > considering where she stashed it. Checked the ceiling for hooks, too.
>

> For Ghreat Ghrotty Ghu's sake, the word is "rappelle."
> "Rappelling."
>
> I know that the loons and retards who like to climb up hard rock faces
> and fall back down didn't graduate from sixth grade and don't know the
> difference between "repel" and "rappelle," but you MIGHT want to find
> out what the two different words mean before you go out in public
> with a computer terminal again.
>
> I *presumed* you were discussing "repelling" things under her bed
> until you started talking about hooks in the ceiling, and realized
> that the imputed absence of hooks implied that you were probably talking
> about "rappelling gear" instead.

Actually, you hit the nail on the head. It was a pun.
The fact that you didn't get it may mean either I was way too obtuse (that
happens), it's a regional colloquialism, or simply a term that falls
outside your scope of experience (in this case, it's not a bad thing. I'm
not into bondage myself, just have friends that are).
If you don't know what hardcore bondage goths call Repelling Gear, don't
ask. You don't want to know. I'll give you a hint, though...it was given
a boost by Hellraiser.

Now, what PROBABLY happened is that, quite simply, I DID screw up. The
pun makes no sense as it stands anyway. The irony is that GoE had every
right (well, far as I'm concerned) to light into me; he just didn't catch
the right place to do it.
Change "SURE it was" to "SURE it wasn't".

Note that I'm neither trying to weasle my way out (I called myself down
on the carpet on the typo, and even thought I was being a tad obtuse),
nor trying to make GoE look like an idgit. Frankly, I'm suprised he
hasn't beat my fingers to a bloody pulp by now; as stated before, I toss
these notes out on the fly between minor emergencies at work. My notes
for storylines look more professional than these posts ;}

MFinn


Terry L. Smith

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Mar 19, 1996, 3:00:00 AM3/19/96
to

Attend, all ye who lurketh here:

The Bimbo's News-Editor-with-a-mind-of-its-own deleted a
couple of lines from a follow-up that the Bimbo made to Mr.
Micker's post. The Bimbo, being in Nitwit Mode, did not
*notice* this, until the dam thing was posted. Follows
the section in question, as it should have been...

[BTW, speaking of dam thngs, weren't the *original* "Troll
Dolls" called "Dam Things?" And weren't they from Denmark, or
somewhere??? AKICiF! Back to the correction, now...]

Raymond Francis Fitzpatrick (fi...@jove.acs.unt.edu) wrote:

: On Fri, 15 Mar 1996, Terry L. Smith wrote:

: > Raymond Francis Fitzpatrick (fi...@jove.acs.unt.edu) wrote:
: > : Intelligence:Yes.
: > : Taste: I'll have to get back to you on that. What are you doing Sat

----------> snip <----------


: Fiancee? Well, I have been known to propose. Of course, I was being

: massaged or fed chocolate at the time.
: (Hmmm. Just noticed how closely related fiancee & finances were realted,
: spelling wise)
: >
: > : [duck]
: >
: > Canard.
: >
: Cantard.

?

Okay ... if you say so... Since I've not the slightest what
you are implying here, I'll give you two choices...

Cantharides

...

------> major snip of rest of post <------

Apologies from the Bimbo.

kw...@astro.phys.unm.edu

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Mar 20, 1996, 3:00:00 AM3/20/96
to
In article <znr827262813k@digex>,
>> (Somebody, anybody...get Cook do finish the damn series? :} )
>
>He is, he is. One sentence at a time between bolt tightenings, I understand.
>

He seems to have gotten off into doing a different series. He does that
occasionally.
I want to find out what happens to the little jerks with the scarves.
They ticked off the WRONG woman.

Both Cook and Straczynski seem to like strong female characters.
I mean, Mist from the Dread Empire, the Lady, and Soulcatcher are such
shy and forgiving types :-).
Seriously, does anyone know if he has any plans on when he might write the
next one?

Maybe someone can get him a winning lottery ticket, so he can take a break
from the assembly line.


Kyle L. Webb Dept. of Physics + Astronomy
kw...@astro.phys.unm.edu University of New Mexico


Raymond Francis Fitzpatrick

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Mar 20, 1996, 3:00:00 AM3/20/96
to
On Tue, 19 Mar 1996, Terry L. Smith wrote:

> : >
> : > : [duck]
> : >
> : > Canard.
> : >
> : Cantard.
>
> ?
>
Check out Glen Cook's Garrett Files, right next to Rick Cook.
Or check out a really good dictionary. Not like the one we have in the
lab (It still amazes me that at a high profile college lab, where people
write their papers, we have a 150 page dictionary.)


> Okay ... if you say so... Since I've not the slightest what
> you are implying here, I'll give you two choices...
>
> Cantharides

Cantankerous.


Raymond Francis Fitzpatrick

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Mar 21, 1996, 3:00:00 AM3/21/96
to
On 19 Mar 1996 cro...@access.digex.net wrote:

>
> In article <Pine.SOL.3.91.960318...@jove.acs.unt.edu> fi...@jove.acs.unt.edu writes:
>
> > (Somebody, anybody...get Cook do finish the damn series? :} )
>
> He is, he is. One sentence at a time between bolt tightenings, I understand.

And Garret books.
3, I think, since his new job has seriously cut into his time for writing.
(Gotta love GM cutbacks). I LIKE the Garret books, and wouldnt mind so
much if he hadn't left us on a cliff with the last BC novel.
Owie. Stingy.
You think waiting a month for the 3rd part of this mini-arc was
anticipation? Sheesh ;}

MFinn
(Like I should talk. I'm so far behind I pass myself on the stairs every
morning. "Night Ralph.")


Scott Jeter

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Mar 21, 1996, 3:00:00 AM3/21/96
to
On 18 Mar 1996, Gharlane of Eddore wrote:

> In <Pine.SOL.3.91.960318...@jove.acs.unt.edu>
> Raymond Francis Fitzpatrick <fi...@jove.acs.unt.edu> writes:
> >
> ....<deletia>
> >
> > I'm helping this girl I'm sorta dating move this weekend. I find some
> > repelling gear under the bed. I made SURE it was repelling gear,
> > considering where she stashed it. Checked the ceiling for hooks, too.
> >
>
>
> For Ghreat Ghrotty Ghu's sake, the word is "rappelle."
> "Rappelling."

I have been rappelling... I thought the verb form was rappel...
(unfortunately I don't have my dictionary handy--Murphy was an
optimist.)

------
scott jeter
bje...@odin.cbu.edu
------


Gharlane of Eddore

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Mar 22, 1996, 3:00:00 AM3/22/96
to
Gary Farber <gfa...@panix.com> wrote:
[re: Gharlane's current hobbies]
>
> That's "Mr. *of* Eddore" to *you*. Careful, or he'll throw a mental bolt
> at you that will singe your socks off. I think he's been oppressing
> Delgonians, but don't tell anyone.
> ^^^^^^^^^^

In <3146f586...@hobbes.cc.uga.edu>


BRE...@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU (Brett Middleton) writes:
>
> When did "Sliders" fandom pick *that* name? B-)
>


Actually, most "Slidies" seem to display the phenotypical markers
peculiar to the more common varieties of the creatures Garrett
christened "Cadeligian rateagles." (a.k.a. raptor felis Cadelixus.)


Steve Patterson

unread,
Mar 22, 1996, 3:00:00 AM3/22/96
to
In article <4isuus$2...@news.csus.edu>, ghar...@ccshp1.ccs.csus.edu (Gharlane of Eddore) says:

>
>Actually, most "Slidies" seem to display the phenotypical markers
>peculiar to the more common varieties of the creatures Garrett
>christened "Cadeligian rateagles." (a.k.a. raptor felis Cadelixus.)
>

I don't know much about Latin, but I *do* know that "felis" describes
cats, not rats. Unless there's a subtext that I'm missing... (I must
also confess a shocking lack of knowledge about Garrett's work outside
his "LORD DARCY" books.)

---
For every action, there is an equal and opposite criticism.
<BRAG>Creator and maintainer of the Legions of Steel Web Page!</BRAG>
http://www.hookup.net/~losglobl

Gharlane of Eddore

unread,
Mar 22, 1996, 3:00:00 AM3/22/96
to
In <Pine.OSF.3.91.960321...@odin.cbu.edu>
Scott Jeter <bje...@odin.cbu.edu> writes:
>
GOE> For Ghreat Ghrotty Ghu's sake, the word is "rappelle."
GOE> "Rappelling."

>
> I have been rappelling... I thought the verb form was rappel...
> (unfortunately I don't have my dictionary handy--Murphy was an
> optimist.)
>


"Rappel" is standard modern form, yes; but since, in classical
pronunciation, it's prounounced "rappelle," I prefer the formally
correct spelling.

YMMV. Since it's French, it doesn't really matter.

"The French don't care what they DO, actually, so long as they
prounounce it properly." -- Prof. H. Higgins


Raymond Francis Fitzpatrick

unread,
Mar 22, 1996, 3:00:00 AM3/22/96
to
On 22 Mar 1996, Gharlane of Eddore wrote:
> YMMV. Since it's French, it doesn't really matter.
>
> "The French don't care what they DO, actually, so long as they
> prounounce it properly." -- Prof. H. Higgins

I wonder how many people are going to ask which episode of Magnum PI this
was in.....


Finn


Gharlane of Eddore

unread,
Mar 22, 1996, 3:00:00 AM3/22/96
to
In <4isuus$2...@news.csus.edu>,

ghar...@ccshp1.ccs.csus.edu (Gharlane of Eddore) says:
>
> Actually, most "Slidies" seem to display the phenotypical markers
> peculiar to the more common varieties of the creatures Garrett
> christened "Cadeligian rateagles." (a.k.a. raptor felis Cadelixus.)
>

In <4iu8n3$h...@obelix.helix.net> spatt...@wwdc.com (Steve Patterson) writes:
>
> I don't know much about Latin, but I *do* know that "felis" describes
> cats, not rats. Unless there's a subtext that I'm missing... (I must
> also confess a shocking lack of knowledge about Garrett's work outside
> his "LORD DARCY" books.)
>

It's a joke derived from a joke.... Read Garrett's "BACKSTAGE LENSMAN."
But it'll only really be funny if you've read the four "LENSMAN" novels
first.

Steve Patterson

unread,
Mar 22, 1996, 3:00:00 AM3/22/96
to
*Sigh.* Another book on my hunt list. Especially since I'm missing two
of the four LENSMAN novels. (Silly me; I bought "FIRST LENSMAN" 'cause,
like, it'll be first, right? And then "GRAY LENSMAN" (spelling Yankeefied
out of courtesy to "Doc"), and I'm afraid to read on.)

Gharlane of Eddore

unread,
Mar 22, 1996, 3:00:00 AM3/22/96
to
In <4ilrd1$b...@news.csus.edu>,
ghar...@ccshp1.ccs.csus.edu (Gharlane of Eddore) writes:
>
....[snip]
>
> I do *nothing* in a small way.
>

In <1996Mar2...@vax.wittenberg.edu>
lcra...@wittenberg.edu (Crawf) writes:
>
> ...except, perhaps, stand up. :-) :-) :-)
>
> ...and before you fire up that flame-thrower, let me point out that
> I could give you some serious competition in the Harlan Ellison
> stand-alike contest. :-)
>


Please don't be ridiculous; you know perfectly well that from *MY*
viewpoint, you and Ellison are BOTH victims of pituitary giantism.

*mutter* Srizonified tall people... always making "short" jokes....


be...@cais2.cais.com

unread,
Mar 23, 1996, 3:00:00 AM3/23/96
to
Raymond Francis Fitzpatrick (fi...@jove.acs.unt.edu) wrote:


: Finn

'ere na' yew boit yer tongue, you cheeky devil.

--
Beth (but you can call me Eliza) ;)

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Write your senators and urge them to support Senator Leahy's Bill (Senate
Bill 1567 to repeal section 502 of the CDA). You can get your senators'
e-mail address at http://www.senate.gov.

According to the Communications Decency Act, these are the words you may
no longer use in your Internet correspondence: Shit, piss, fuck, cunt,
cock-sucker, mother-fucker and tits. The use of shit, piss, fuck, cunt,
cock-sucker, mother-fucker and tits, may now earn you a substantial fine
as well as possible jail time, since President Clinton has signed this
Bill into law. Please refrain from using shit, piss, fuck, cunt, cock-
sucker, mother-fucker and tits, to protect your children as well as
others, from their evil influence, thus keeping America "ideologically
pure".


Mike Gannis

unread,
Mar 23, 1996, 3:00:00 AM3/23/96
to
ghar...@ccshp1.ccs.csus.edu (Gharlane of Eddore) wrote:
::It's a joke derived from a joke.... Read Garrett's "BACKSTAGE LENSMAN."

::But it'll only really be funny if you've read the four "LENSMAN" novels
::first.

spatt...@wwdc.com (Steve Patterson) replied:
:*Sigh.* Another book on my hunt list. Especially since I'm missing two


:of the four LENSMAN novels. (Silly me; I bought "FIRST LENSMAN" 'cause,
:like, it'll be first, right? And then "GRAY LENSMAN" (spelling Yankeefied
:out of courtesy to "Doc"), and I'm afraid to read on.)

Good luck! "Backstage Lensman was a story in Analog, back in the '70s. It
also can be found in the Randall Garrett collection _Takeoff_ ... Haunt
the used bookstores until you've found this book, and grab it!


Steve Patterson

unread,
Mar 23, 1996, 3:00:00 AM3/23/96
to
In article <4ivv9j$h...@rosebud.sdsc.edu>, Mike Gannis <mga...@sdsc.edu> says:
>
>Good luck! "Backstage Lensman was a story in Analog, back in the '70s. It
>also can be found in the Randall Garrett collection _Takeoff_ ... Haunt
>the used bookstores until you've found this book, and grab it!
>
<VOICE NAME="CAPTAIN_STERN"> Nooo problem! </VOICE>

I'll just go to the local university library (which has bound every Analog
since 1971) and read until my eyes bleed...

Steve Patterson

unread,
Mar 23, 1996, 3:00:00 AM3/23/96
to
In article <4ivdhe$7...@news.csus.edu>, ghar...@ccshp1.ccs.csus.edu (Gharlane of Eddore) says:
>
>In <4ilrd1$b...@news.csus.edu>,
>ghar...@ccshp1.ccs.csus.edu (Gharlane of Eddore) writes:
>>
>....[snip]
>>
>> I do *nothing* in a small way.
>>
>
>In <1996Mar2...@vax.wittenberg.edu>
>lcra...@wittenberg.edu (Crawf) writes:
>>
>> ...except, perhaps, stand up. :-) :-) :-)
>>
[chop!]

>
>Please don't be ridiculous; you know perfectly well that from *MY*
>viewpoint, you and Ellison are BOTH victims of pituitary giantism.
>
>*mutter* Srizonified tall people... always making "short" jokes....
>
Now now. Let's not lower the tone of this group...

Gharlane of Eddore

unread,
Mar 23, 1996, 3:00:00 AM3/23/96
to
In <Pine.SOL.3.91.960322...@jove.acs.unt.edu>

Raymond Francis Fitzpatrick <fi...@jove.acs.unt.edu> writes:
>
> On 22 Mar 1996, Gharlane of Eddore wrote:
> > YMMV. Since it's French, it doesn't really matter.
> >
> > "The French don't care what they DO, actually, so long as they
> > prounounce it properly." -- Prof. H. Higgins
>
> I wonder how many people are going to ask which episode of Magnum PI
> this was in.....
>

*GRIN* Reminds me of the "MAGNUM, P.I." script I had rejected, because
of my comedic climax scene, which hinged on Higgins' Webley .455 turning
out to *actually* be one of the Webley .45's that were built to run on U.S.
.45 ACP ammo, so that he was able to use ammo from one of Thomas Magnum's
spare magazines... (Since Hillerman is a native Texan, I figured he'd
enjoy getting to do a scene as the Sundance Kid.)

The folks who evaluated the script were apparently Not Amused by Higgins
proving to be a competent Texas-style gunslinger, and they also insisted
that no Webley revolver could use .45 ACP ammo, which told me how much
they actually knew about their own series format....

I stopped watching the show quite so religiously after that.

Gharlane of Eddore

unread,
Mar 23, 1996, 3:00:00 AM3/23/96
to

Concerning Garrett's "BACKSTAGE LENSMAN,"

In <4ivbou$e...@obelix.helix.net>


spatt...@wwdc.com (Steve Patterson) writes:
>
> *Sigh.* Another book on my hunt list. Especially since I'm missing two
> of the four LENSMAN novels. (Silly me; I bought "FIRST LENSMAN" 'cause,
> like, it'll be first, right? And then "GRAY LENSMAN" (spelling Yankeefied
> out of courtesy to "Doc"), and I'm afraid to read on.)
>


Not at all. The "Lensman" saga was conceived and outlined as one long
400,000-word novel, broken into four 100,000-word sections. In 1937,
E.E. Smith made his deal to serialize those four books in "ASTOUNDING"
magazine; they were printed over the next ten years. In order, they
are:

#1: "GALACTIC PATROL."

#2: "GRAY LENSMAN." (*)

#3: "SECOND-STAGE LENSMAN."

#4: "CHILDREN OF THE LENS."

These four books *are* the "Lensman Series."
(So you're missing three of the four important ones.)

Later, when Dr. Smith made his deal to sell them for hardback book
publication, the publisher, Lloyd Arthur Eshbach, had a stroke of
inspiration. He conned Smith into RE-writing an earlier, unrelated,
serial, so that it could be used as a "prequel" to the four; and
then got Smith to write a "bridge" novel, "FIRST LENSMAN," to
connect it to the main body of the series.

That's where "TRIPLANETARY" and "FIRST LENSMAN" came from; while
they're interesting work, part of the history of the field, they're
effectively just afterthought add-ons.

*THEN*, around 1960, Smith finally finished his "VORTEX BLASTER"
yarn, which is merely *set* in the "Lensman" universe, and that
somehow got hooked onto the series as well.


For a whole slew of detail information on these and other books,
my "LENSMAN" Web Page / FAQ is available at:


http://168.150.253.1/~zlensman/lensfaq.html


This storage site should be stable for at least a year, if anyone
wants to put up links to it in other pages.

-----------------------------------------------------------

Lastly, Randall Garrett's short piece, "BACKSTAGE LENSMAN,"
is a put-on/pastiche/parody/bad joke about the "Lensman" books,
and got its first major publication in "ANALOG" in 1978,
although Garrett was working on earlier versions prior to 1950.

You can find it in numerous collections, but it won't be
entirely funny until after you've read the "Lensmen" yarns.

Incidentally, by all reports, E.E. Smith Ph.D. *loved*
Garrett's early version of "BACKSTAGE LENSMAN," nearly
half a century ago. It's a real pity Smith didn't live
to see the final version, which was printed a decade
after his death.

-----------------------------------------------------------

(*) Concerning your dig about the "Yankeefication" of spelling;
since E.E. Smith, PhD, got all his basic reading and writing
education prior to the turn of the century, he *knew* the
difference between "grey" and "gray," and used them appropriately.
The title of the book Smith wrote is "GRAY LENSMAN." Despite
this, the title given on the cover of the magazine containing
the first installment of the serialization gave the title as
"GREY LENSMAN." The spelling inside the magazine was correct,
of course, and the cover title was corrected by the second
installment.
This same idiocy occurred with the first hardbound edition
from Fantasy Press; the dust jacket said "GREY LENSMAN," but
the binding, and the book itself, used the correct spelling.
To the best of my knowledge, all subsequent editions have
employed the correct spelling, i.e. "GRAY."
(These two abberations of cover art merely prove that
the average graphic artist is heavily into affectation, and
only borderline literate.)

Due to this history, REAL SF people know the difference between
"gray" and "grey," and don't employ tediously affective variant
spellings, with the possible exception of the historical fennish
preoccupation with the letter "H," as in "BHEER IS THE ONLY TRUE GHOD."

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
| __ __ |
| We are dreamers, shapers, singers and makers. / | / \ |
| We study the mysteries of laser and circuit, -|---+----+- |
| Crystal and scanner, holographic demons, | | | |
| And invocations of equations. |_/ \__/ |
| |
| These are the tools we employ. And we know... many things. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


Gharlane of Eddore

unread,
Mar 23, 1996, 3:00:00 AM3/23/96
to
In <4ivv9j$h...@rosebud.sdsc.edu>, Mike Gannis <mga...@sdsc.edu> says:
>
> Good luck! "Backstage Lensman was a story in Analog, back in the '70s. It
> also can be found in the Randall Garrett collection _Takeoff_ ... Haunt
> the used bookstores until you've found this book, and grab it!
>

Yeah, and I'm looking for a copy of Garrett's "TAKEOFF TOO!"
if anyone has a spare and wants to make some money off me.....

"TAKEOFF!" has been out of print since '79, the last I heard....

In <4j02v2$d...@obelix.helix.net>


spatt...@wwdc.com (Steve Patterson) writes:
>
> <VOICE NAME="CAPTAIN_STERN"> Nooo problem! </VOICE>
>
> I'll just go to the local university library (which has bound every Analog
> since 1971) and read until my eyes bleed...
>---

(Only since 1971? Pity.)

Save the trouble. Since I don't have a copy of Mike Ashley's Index here,
I just went in and fanned through the stack.

Randall Garrett's "BACKSTAGE LENSMAN" is on Pages 84-104 of the June, 1978
issue of "ANALOG." I hope you appreciate this, because just zipping
through the stack to find it, I lost an hour stopping to read Joan Vinge's
"THE OUTCASTS OF HEAVEN BELT" again. (Since you're looking up '78, read
that serialized novel while you're at it. Yes, I know, you can buy a
full-length paperback copy for a few bucks... but the magazine version
smells better, and has good illustrations. Good book, in either form.)

And remember what I said about "BACKSTAGE LENSMAN" not being really
completely funny if you read it *before* you read the "LENSMEN" novels.

While you're over there, you might point out to the head librarian that
John W. Campbell, Jr, *died* in 1971, and Bova took over the editorship.

The *important* years of "ASTOUNDING"/"ANALOG" were 1937 to 1971, when
Campbell and Kay Tarrant ran it! You should get your library to buy
a collection, or see if they can get it on microfiche or microfilm.

****************************************************************************
* National Health *
* The efficiency of the Post Office, the compassion of the IRS, *
* at Pentagon prices. *
****************************************************************************


de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.
Three wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner

-- Bill Gunshannon, bi...@cs.uofs.edu

Gary Farber

unread,
Mar 23, 1996, 3:00:00 AM3/23/96
to
Gharlane of Eddore (ghar...@ccshp1.ccs.csus.edu) wrote:

: The *important* years of "ASTOUNDING"/"ANALOG" were 1937 to 1971, when


: Campbell and Kay Tarrant ran it! You should get your library to buy
: a collection, or see if they can get it on microfiche or microfilm.

When I was around ten years old, I discovered that the Main Branch of the
Brooklyn Public Library had both this and AMAZING on microfilm back to
their first issues. So I went there every weekend for a while and read
the complete run of each.

This influenced me. :-)

I bought several trusses, and became a Rosicrucian.
--
-- Gary Farber Middlemiss gfa...@panix.com
Copyright 1996 for DUFF Brooklyn, NY, USA

Scott Drellishak

unread,
Mar 24, 1996, 3:00:00 AM3/24/96
to
In article <4j0d00$m...@news.csus.edu>,
Gharlane of Eddore <ghar...@ccshp1.ccs.csus.edu> wrote:
) Due to this history, REAL SF people know the difference between
) "gray" and "grey," and don't employ tediously affective variant
) spellings, with the possible exception of the historical fennish
) preoccupation with the letter "H," as in "BHEER IS THE ONLY TRUE GHOD."

All right, I'm curious -- what's the *real* difference between "gray"
and "grey"? My dictionary says "variant spelling".
--
/ Scott Drellishak s...@netcom.com \
| Microsoft FrontPage ** World Wide Web Authoring Tools For The Masses |
| "Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced." |
\ "Perfect paranoia is perfect awareness." /

Ben Yalow

unread,
Mar 24, 1996, 3:00:00 AM3/24/96
to
In <4j0h4q$o...@news.csus.edu> ghar...@ccshp1.ccs.csus.edu (Gharlane of Eddore) writes:

>In <4ivv9j$h...@rosebud.sdsc.edu>, Mike Gannis <mga...@sdsc.edu> says:
>>
>> Good luck! "Backstage Lensman was a story in Analog, back in the '70s. It
>> also can be found in the Randall Garrett collection _Takeoff_ ... Haunt
>> the used bookstores until you've found this book, and grab it!
>>

>Yeah, and I'm looking for a copy of Garrett's "TAKEOFF TOO!"
>if anyone has a spare and wants to make some money off me.....

>"TAKEOFF!" has been out of print since '79, the last I heard....

There was another reprint edition. When Donning got involved with the
Starblaze stuff, they reprinted TAKEOFF! with a new Phil Foglio cover.

So the most recent edition was the 1986 Donning edition, with the
Starblaze Graphics logo on the cover, as well as Donning on the spine.

ISBN 0-915442-84-1

Ben

--
Ben Yalow yb...@panix.com
Not speaking for anybody

Captain Nerd

unread,
Mar 24, 1996, 3:00:00 AM3/24/96
to
In article <4ivdhe$7...@news.csus.edu>, ghar...@ccshp1.ccs.csus.edu (Gharlane of Eddore) wrote:

> In <4ilrd1$b...@news.csus.edu>,


> ghar...@ccshp1.ccs.csus.edu (Gharlane of Eddore) writes:
> >

> ....[snip]
> >
> > I do *nothing* in a small way.
> >
>
> In <1996Mar2...@vax.wittenberg.edu>
> lcra...@wittenberg.edu (Crawf) writes:
> >
> > ...except, perhaps, stand up. :-) :-) :-)
> >

> > ...and before you fire up that flame-thrower, let me point out that
> > I could give you some serious competition in the Harlan Ellison
> > stand-alike contest. :-)
> >
>
>

> Please don't be ridiculous; you know perfectly well that from *MY*
> viewpoint, you and Ellison are BOTH victims of pituitary giantism.
>
> *mutter* Srizonified tall people... always making "short" jokes....


Don't shortchange yourself, have a piece of shortcake, or else
people will think you were shortsheeted when you were small.

And don't have such a short fuse! We're only here for a short time,
after all!

Cap.
("Ignite sweetheart, well, it's time to go...")

--
==============================================================================
= Captain Nerd's Secret Identity Revealed! Millions Express Disinterest! =
= see it all at http://www.access.digex.net/~cptnerd/ =
==============================================================================

Steve Patterson

unread,
Mar 24, 1996, 3:00:00 AM3/24/96
to
In article <sfdDor...@netcom.com>, s...@netcom.com (Scott Drellishak) says:

>All right, I'm curious -- what's the *real* difference between "gray"
>and "grey"? My dictionary says "variant spelling".

You see, after the Revolutionary War the newly-independant Americans were
looking for any way that they could differentiate themselves from their
former masters. Thus, they deliberately changed the spelling of words in
order to make themselves seperate.

However, over here on the *civilized* side of the Great Lakes, the original
spellings remain intact...

Gary Farber

unread,
Mar 24, 1996, 3:00:00 AM3/24/96
to
Richard Newsome (new...@panix.com) wrote:
: In article <4j2dsh$l...@panix2.panix.com> gfa...@panix.com (Gary
: Farber) writes:
: >When I was around ten years old, I discovered that the Main Branch of the
: >Brooklyn Public Library had both this and AMAZING on microfilm back to
: >their first issues. So I went there every weekend for a while and read
: >the complete run of each.

: This is obviously not true. No living mortal could make it all the way through
: the Ray Palmer years without going stark, staring mad.

Your point? :-)

Besides, I'll clarify that I "ran my eye over every page." I didn't
memorize or closely read every word. I'll cop to a lot of skimming.

I'm still mad, though.

Wanna see my rock pictures of deros being defied with Dianetics?

Richard Newsome

unread,
Mar 24, 1996, 3:00:00 AM3/24/96
to

Gharlane of Eddore

unread,
Mar 24, 1996, 3:00:00 AM3/24/96
to
In <4j2ra9$5...@panix3.panix.com> yb...@panix.com (Ben Yalow) writes:
>
......<deletia>
>
GOE> Yeah, and I'm looking for a copy of Garrett's "TAKEOFF TOO!"
GOE> if anyone has a spare and wants to make some money off me.....
GOE>
GOE> TAKEOFF!" has been out of print since '79, the last I heard....

>
> There was another reprint edition. When Donning got involved with the
> Starblaze stuff, they reprinted TAKEOFF! with a new Phil Foglio cover.

Actually, Donning was always involved. Donning printed the first
edition as well.

>
> So the most recent edition was the 1986 Donning edition, with the
> Starblaze Graphics logo on the cover, as well as Donning on the spine.
>
> ISBN 0-915442-84-1
>

That's the same ISBN as the *original* "STABLAZE" edition, the one with
the Kelly Freas cover, that Kelly and Polly put together 18 years ago.

Rather than a reprint, it's probably just leftover copies of the first
print run that were bound with a new cover!

( The way to tell them apart: (1) turn book over, look at back.
(2) If, below and to the left of the three lions with hearts,
you see "(c) Kelly Freas, 1979," the cover was not drawn by Foglio.
This procedure presumes, of course, that you can't tell the difference
between Freas and Foglio.)


Incidentally, when I first met Phil Foglio, about 10-15 years back, I
recall being amazed that he looked normal and sane. Smooth healthy
skin, short hair, clean-shaven, glasses, a seraphic expression of
happiness and contentment. Charlie Brown on Thorazine.

Of course, when he smiled, I noticed that all his teeth had been
filed to points......

Kevin Wald

unread,
Mar 25, 1996, 3:00:00 AM3/25/96
to
In article <sfdDor...@netcom.com>, Scott Drellishak <s...@netcom.com> wrote:

>All right, I'm curious -- what's the *real* difference between "gray"
>and "grey"? My dictionary says "variant spelling".

Here's what the OED has to say on the subject (in the following, -ae is
the Old English letter "aesc", which looks like an a and and e joined
together, and &asg. is that funky Old English g that looks like a 3):

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Each of the current spellings has some analogical support. The only mod.Eng.
words repr. OE. words ending in -ae&asg. are key (which is irrelevant on
account of its pronunciation), whey, and clay. If we further take into
consideration the words repr. OE. words in -ae&asg.e, viz. blay or bley, fey,
wey, we have three (or four) instances of ey and only two (or one) of ay. On
the other hand, this advantage in favour of grey is counterbalanced by the
facts that clay is the only word of the five which is in very general use, and
that grey is phonetically ambiguous, while gray is not. With regard to the
question of usage, an inquiry by Dr. Murray in Nov. 1893 elicited a large
number of replies, from which it appeared that in Great Britain the form grey
is the more frequent in use, notwithstanding the authority of Johnson and
later Eng. lexicographers, who have all given the preference to gray. In
answer to questions as to their practice, the printers of The Times stated
that they always used the form gray; Messrs. Spottiswoode and Messrs. Clowes
always used grey; other eminent printing firms had no fixed rule. Many
correspondents said that they used the two forms with a difference of meaning
or application: the distinction most generally recognized being that grey
denotes a more delicate or a lighter tint than gray. Others considered the
difference to be that gray is a `warmer' colour, or that it has a mixture of
red or brown (cf. also the quot. under 1 c below). In the twentieth century,
grey has become the established spelling in the U.K., whilst gray is standard
in the United States. There seems to be nearly absolute unanimity as to the
spelling of `The Scots Greys', `a pair of greys'. As the word is both
etymologically and phonetically one, it is undesirable to treat its graphic
forms as differing in signification.]

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

The "quot. under 1c" alluded to is the following:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

1885 Field's Chromatography iii. 38 note, The distinction between grey and
gray should be carefully observed. Grey is composed only of black and white;
the term gray is applied to any broken colour of a cool hue, and therefore
belongs to the class of chromatic colours.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

In sum:

1) This is partly, though not entirely, one of those annoying transatlantic
differences; and

2) Some people, like Gharlane, treat the two as differing in signification,
but the OED regards this as "undesirable" (and who are you going to listen
to, anyway -- a brain in a jar, or the greatest reference book that mankind
has ever produced?).

I, myself, suggest that we abandon this entire pointless argument, and spell
the word "graeg", the weg the Anglo-Saxons used to. What do you saege?

Kevin Wald | Hwaet saegest thu, yrthlingc?
wa...@math.uchicago.edu | -- AElfric, _Colloquium Martianum_

Ben Yalow

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Mar 25, 1996, 3:00:00 AM3/25/96
to
In <4j4107$e...@news.csus.edu> ghar...@ccshp1.ccs.csus.edu (Gharlane of Eddore) writes:

>In <4j2ra9$5...@panix3.panix.com> yb...@panix.com (Ben Yalow) writes:
>>
>> There was another reprint edition. When Donning got involved with the
>> Starblaze stuff, they reprinted TAKEOFF! with a new Phil Foglio cover.

>Actually, Donning was always involved. Donning printed the first
>edition as well.

Right.

>>
>> So the most recent edition was the 1986 Donning edition, with the
>> Starblaze Graphics logo on the cover, as well as Donning on the spine.
>>
>> ISBN 0-915442-84-1
>>

>That's the same ISBN as the *original* "STABLAZE" edition, the one with
>the Kelly Freas cover, that Kelly and Polly put together 18 years ago.

I know. But, according to the rules for ISBNs, they *should* have had a
new one, since there was a new cover, and a new copyright on the state
with the cover.

>Rather than a reprint, it's probably just leftover copies of the first
>print run that were bound with a new cover!

No. There are changes on the copyright page, as well. And, although the
text on each page is identical, the text image area is about a quarter
inch larger total (equally on top and bottom), so I suspect they reshot
each page, a little larger.

>( The way to tell them apart: (1) turn book over, look at back.
> (2) If, below and to the left of the three lions with hearts,
> you see "(c) Kelly Freas, 1979," the cover was not drawn by Foglio.
> This procedure presumes, of course, that you can't tell the difference
> between Freas and Foglio.)

It's easy -- Kelly is much older than Phil.

As for the books, the yellow cover is the Freas, and the green one is the
Foglio.

>Incidentally, when I first met Phil Foglio, about 10-15 years back, I
>recall being amazed that he looked normal and sane. Smooth healthy
>skin, short hair, clean-shaven, glasses, a seraphic expression of
>happiness and contentment. Charlie Brown on Thorazine.

>Of course, when he smiled, I noticed that all his teeth had been
>filed to points......

He still looked pretty much the same when he was GoH at Lunacon last weekend.

Avram Grumer

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Mar 25, 1996, 3:00:00 AM3/25/96
to
In article <4j2dsh$l...@panix2.panix.com>, gfa...@panix.com (Gary Farber) wrote:

> Gharlane of Eddore (ghar...@ccshp1.ccs.csus.edu) wrote:
>
> : The *important* years of "ASTOUNDING"/"ANALOG" were 1937 to 1971, when
> : Campbell and Kay Tarrant ran it! You should get your library to buy
> : a collection, or see if they can get it on microfiche or microfilm.
>

> When I was around ten years old, I discovered that the Main Branch of the
> Brooklyn Public Library had both this and AMAZING on microfilm back to
> their first issues. So I went there every weekend for a while and read
> the complete run of each.

Uh oh. If I had any free time, I would now just have found a way to spend
all of it. (I live about a block from the Main Branch of the BPL.)

--
Avram Grumer Home: av...@interport.net
http://www.users.interport.net/~avram Work: agr...@crossover.com
If music be the food of love, then some of it be the Twinkies of dysfunctional relationships.

Tom Salyers

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Mar 25, 1996, 3:00:00 AM3/25/96
to
Ben Yalow (yb...@panix.com) wrote:

> [Phil Foglio] still looked pretty much the same when he was GoH at Lunacon
> last weekend.

He looked pretty much the same when I met him at MileHiCon in Denver last
October. I got a good close up look because I was "volunteered" from the
audience to participate in an improv performance that he and some others
were doing. It was a blast. =)

--
Tom Salyers "Now is the Windows of our disk contents
IRCnick: Aqualung Made glorious SimEarth by this Sun of Zork."
Denver, CO --from _Richard v3.0_


Phil Boswell

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Mar 25, 1996, 3:00:00 AM3/25/96
to
In article <>, Raymond Francis Fitzpatrick
(fi...@jove.acs.unt.edu) writes:

>On Fri, 15 Mar 1996, Terry L. Smith wrote:
>> Raymond Francis Fitzpatrick (fi...@jove.acs.unt.edu) wrote:
[snip: follow-ups re-directed to RASW on account of relevance]
>> : [duck]
>> Canard.
>Cantard.

Isn't that Garrett's least favourite place?

Anybody remember Garrett's first name, or even if he has one?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Codd and Date Ltd., 1 Broadway Court, CHESHAM, Bucks HP5 1EG |
Tel: (01494) 791355 Fax: (01494) 791373 |
Email: ph...@codd-date.win-uk.net |

rsf...@uncg.edu

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Mar 25, 1996, 3:00:00 AM3/25/96
to
In article <sfdDor...@netcom.com>, s...@netcom.com (Scott Drellishak)
writes:

>In article <4j0d00$m...@news.csus.edu>,
>Gharlane of Eddore <ghar...@ccshp1.ccs.csus.edu> wrote:
>) Due to this history, REAL SF people know the difference between
>) "gray" and "grey," and don't employ tediously affective variant
>) spellings, with the possible exception of the historical fennish
>) preoccupation with the letter "H," as in "BHEER IS THE ONLY TRUE GHOD."
>

>All right, I'm curious -- what's the *real* difference between "gray"
>and "grey"? My dictionary says "variant spelling".

One is used in front of the word "Lensman", and the other is used in front of
the word "Mouser."

Any other questions?

Rob F.

Francis A. Ney, Jr.

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Mar 25, 1996, 3:00:00 AM3/25/96
to

> Concerning Garrett's "BACKSTAGE LENSMAN,"
>
> In <4ivbou$e...@obelix.helix.net>
> spatt...@wwdc.com (Steve Patterson) writes:
> >
> > *Sigh.* Another book on my hunt list. Especially since I'm missing two
> > of the four LENSMAN novels. (Silly me; I bought "FIRST LENSMAN" 'cause,
> > like, it'll be first, right? And then "GRAY LENSMAN" (spelling Yankeefied
> > out of courtesy to "Doc"), and I'm afraid to read on.)
> >
>
> Not at all. The "Lensman" saga was conceived and outlined as one long
> 400,000-word novel, broken into four 100,000-word sections. In 1937,
> E.E. Smith made his deal to serialize those four books in "ASTOUNDING"
> magazine; they were printed over the next ten years. In order, they
> are:

<Massive Snippage of a good post>

Heck, this is the first time I've ever *heard* of _Backstage Lensman_, so you
can tell how out of it *I* am. B-)=

Seriously, though, if you haven't already heard of them, there are other books
by the good doctor that are worth reading, such as the _Skylark_ and
_Subspace_ series, and _Spacehounds of the IPC_. There were also two psionics
novels but I can't remember the names.

There is also a ten-book _Family D'Alembert_ series, from an outline by Doc
Smith, written by Stephen Goldin. Not completely Doc Smith, but still worth
it (though I think I'm about to be flamed by Gharlane for my bad taste B-)= ).


---
Frank Ney WV/EMT-B VA/EMT-A N4ZHG LPWV NRA(L) GOA CCRKBA JPFO
Sponsor, BATF Abuse page http://www.access.digex.net/~croaker/batfabus.html
West Virginia Coordinator, Libertarian Second Amendment Caucus
"[E]lections amount to no more than choosing between the scum that floats to
the top of the barrel and the dregs that settle to the bottom."
- L. Neil Smith


Mark Stackpole

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Mar 25, 1996, 3:00:00 AM3/25/96
to
Gharlane of Eddore wrote:
> You should get your library to buy
> a collection, or see if they can get it on microfiche or microfilm.

University Microfilms International at Ann Arbor, has long had for sale a
complete run of _Astounding/Analog_ on Microfilm. The company also
offers _The Magazine of Fantasy & Science Fiction_ and _Isaac Asimov's
Science Fiction Magazine_ on microfilm as well.

_Galaxy_ and _Worlds of If_ are available in microfilm from the New York
Public Library.

In all cases, the cover art is in glorious black & white.

Mark Stackpole

Mike Gannis

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Mar 25, 1996, 3:00:00 AM3/25/96
to
ph...@codd-date.win-uk.net (Phil Boswell) wrote:

>Anybody remember Garrett's first name, or even if he has one?

Randall.

And for *real* trivia lovers, his middle names are Thagobar,
Larminisculus, and Verf. Just ask Robert Silverberg. <grin>

tkoren

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Mar 26, 1996, 3:00:00 AM3/26/96
to Steve Patterson
Steve Patterson wrote:
>
> However, over here on the *civilized* side of the Great Lakes, the original
> spellings remain intact...

Careful you might provoce another attempt by a certain country to take over this
country. :)
Liav.

Loki

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Mar 26, 1996, 3:00:00 AM3/26/96
to
In ashen ink, Scott Drellishak (s...@netcom.com) inscribed:
: All right, I'm curious -- what's the *real* difference between "gray"

: and "grey"? My dictionary says "variant spelling".

Hmm. Me too. The only real difference, to me, is that I've always liked
"grey" better.

- Loki
--
+----------------------+---------------------------------+------------------+
| gwis...@uoguelph.ca | cs1...@snowhite.cis.uoguelph.ca | Geoffrey Wiseman |
+---------------+------+---------------------------------+------+-----------+
| http://tdg.uoguelph.ca/~ontarion/users/geoff |
+-----------------------------------------------+
"Through the darkness of future past, the magician longs to see
one chance out between two worlds, Fire walk with me."

Mike Gannis

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Mar 26, 1996, 3:00:00 AM3/26/96
to
Steve Patterson wrote:
>>
>> However, over here on the *civilized* side of the Great Lakes, the original
>> spellings remain intact...

tkoren <tko...@interlog.com> wrote:

>Careful you might provoce another attempt by a certain country to take over this
>country. :)

Remember, in the Draka universe ... we did. <grin>

Gharlane of Eddore

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Mar 26, 1996, 3:00:00 AM3/26/96
to
In <znr827767272k@Digex> cro...@access.digex.net writes:
>
....<deletia>

> Seriously, though, if you haven't already heard of them, there are
> other books by the good doctor that are worth reading, such as the
> _Skylark_ and _Subspace_ series, and _Spacehounds of the IPC_.
> There were also two psionics novels but I can't remember the names.

The "SKYLARKS" had three in the original series; in order,
"SKYLARK OF SPACE," "SKYLARK THREE," and "SKYLARK OF VALERON."
Thirty years later he finished the series off with a nice come-back
for the villain, DuQuesne, in "SKYLARK DUQUESNE."
The "Skylark" series began serialization in 1928, and the three
originals got hardbound editions in the forties and fifties.
Doc re-wrote "THE SKYLARK OF SPACE" in 1958 for Pyramid's first
paperback edition, and that was his preferred edition.

The "SUBSPACE" series is TWO books. EES started out intending one
long book, discovered he had a really great story to tell, and
figured out a neat approach... He wrote the first, big, book,
and then planned a separate book that would fit in mid-way through
the first, yielding a "Surprise Trilogy."
... so he prepped the first half of the big book for publication,
organized the material for the second half, and then started thinking
about the new, "middle" book. The idea was that it would be (apparently)
completely unrelated, and no one would realize the third book (the second
half of the first big book) would tie the first two together in a burst
of pyrotechnics.

Doc died in summer, '65. The "middle" book will never be written.
His long-time friend and publisher, Lloyd Arthur Eshbach, took over
getting the second half of the existing material into publication
shape. He claims to this day that he wrote only a few percent of
the material, since all the major scenes existed and merely needed
to be connected together. His name is on the book as "Editor,"
and I think he did a great job; it's almost impossible to tell
which bits are his contributions.

That's where the two "SUBSPACE" books came from. (Only the first
got a hardback edition, from Canaveral, in '65.)

"THE SPACEHOUNDS OF IPC" is lovely fun from the Golden Age.
It's a stand-alone, and something of a classic, a milestone in
its era. I believe it was also the first hardback printed by
Lloyd Eshbach when his company, "Fantasy Press," began operation
in the late forties.


> There is also a ten-book _Family D'Alembert_ series, from an outline
> by Doc Smith, written by Stephen Goldin. Not completely Doc Smith,
> but still worth it (though I think I'm about to be flamed by Gharlane
> for my bad taste B-)= ).

Not entirely. EES's outline was only for a couple of books, and he
himself only wrote only the first part of the first book prior to his
death in '65. Goldin is almost entirely responsible for the rest
of them, conservatively culpable for 95% of the material.

They've had multiple printings, the most recent in the U.S. that
I know of, from Berkeley Books in the mid-eighties.
I don't regard them as having anything to do with EES after the
first book, and think the best thing about them was the Barr
cover illustrations on the early Pyramid printings.
As far as I'm concerned, EES' name doesn't belong on the covers.

Goldin wasted a golden opportunity; he's not one of our great writers,
but he's capable of FAR better work than he turned out in those
turkeys. If you like 'em, well, it's a free country.
But they're not SF; they're fantasy, and not very good fantasy.

Note also that EES' two shortish stories about a character named
"Lord Tedric" got recycled, pumped up by a contract writer, and
exist in a multiple-book series format, in much the same way.
These, like the Goldin set, are to be avoided like unto the
veriest of plagues, unless you're obsessive or a completist.


You mention "...two psionics novels," with no titles.
You are probably thinking of "THE GALAXY PRIMES," a book that EES
never really liked, and wished he hadn't written; and "THE VORTEX
BLASTER," set in the "Lensman" universe, but not part of the series.
"THE VORTEX BLASTER" is actually a pretty decent book, considering
its fragmented, bad-luck history.


Smith's name is also on a book called "THE MASTERS OF SPACE,"
which was actually an unfinished novel left by his friend
E. Everett Evans. Smith finished it and sold it, primarily
as a favor to Evans' widow. In subsequent paperback editions,
the cover says "E. E. 'DOC' SMITH!" in large letters, since the
publisher knew no one would lay out a nickel for a posthumous
Evans book. It's good, solid, 1930's space opera; but since
it was published around 1960, it didn't do too well. I
believe there's a sequel, or related book, as well.
Again, of interest only to the completist or the obsessive.


For dates, and other FAQish details on the "LENSMEN" series,

http://168.150.253.1/~zlensman/lensfaq.html

I have a text-only version of the "Lensman FAQ" which I stopped posting
some time back, but will put up as an FTP-able text file if anyone
gives a hoot.

Rick Cook

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Mar 26, 1996, 3:00:00 AM3/26/96
to
Phil Boswell wrote:
>
>Isn't that Garrett's least favourite place?
>
>Anybody remember Garrett's first name, or even if he has one?
>
You mean Randall Garrett?

I assume the story in question is "Duck" from Astounding, containing one of
my favorite lines:

"Duck excrement", he said, answering three questions in two syllables.

--RC

Rick Cook

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Mar 26, 1996, 3:00:00 AM3/26/96
to
rsf...@uncg.edu wrote:
>>All right, I'm curious -- what's the *real* difference between "gray"
>>and "grey"? My dictionary says "variant spelling".
>
>One is used in front of the word "Lensman", and the other is used in front
>of
>the word "Mouser."
>
Boy, there's a fannishly correct answer!

--RC

Paul Colquhoun

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Mar 26, 1996, 3:00:00 AM3/26/96
to
In article <4ivbou$e...@obelix.helix.net>,
spatt...@wwdc.com (Steve Patterson) writes:
SP> In article <4iukdb$p...@news.csus.edu>, ghar...@ccshp1.ccs.csus.edu (Gharlane of Eddore) says:
SP> >It's a joke derived from a joke.... Read Garrett's "BACKSTAGE LENSMAN."
SP> >But it'll only really be funny if you've read the four "LENSMAN" novels
SP> >first.
SP> >
SP> *Sigh.* Another book on my hunt list. Especially since I'm missing two
SP> of the four LENSMAN novels. (Silly me; I bought "FIRST LENSMAN" 'cause,
SP> like, it'll be first, right? And then "GRAY LENSMAN" (spelling Yankeefied
SP> out of courtesy to "Doc"), and I'm afraid to read on.)

Funny, last time I read them there were seven Lensman books.
Let's see:
Triplanetary
Galactic Patrol
First Lensman
Grey Lensman
Second Stage Lensman
Children of the Lens
and the only vaguly related
Masters of the Vortex

--
Paul Colquhoun <pau...@two-rivers.tpgi.com.au>
"Never underestimate the power of human stupidity"
- Lazarus Long aka Robert A. Heinlein


Steve Patterson

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