So why is Alanna always crying?
Kane Livingstone
I mean, I thought Aes Sedai were a bit more tough than that, but Rand is
always noticing that Alanna is crying in th back of his head. What's up with
that? My thoughts are that maybe she feels the taint through her bond to
Rand, or somehow recieves the pain that LTT feels about Illyena. Oh well, I
dunno.
Aaron Bergman
In article <35402...@duster.adelaide.on.net>, "Kane Livingstone"
<klivin...@bh.com.au.illegaladdress> wrote:
:I mean, I thought Aes Sedai were a bit more tough than that, but Rand is
It's because she feels the pain of Rand's wound in his side.
Aaron
--
Aaron Bergman -- aber...@pantheon.yale.edu
<http://pantheon.yale.edu/~abergman/>
The smallest number not expressible in under ten words
PM Bowles
On Fri, 24 Apr 1998, Aaron Bergman wrote:
> In article <35402...@duster.adelaide.on.net>, "Kane Livingstone"
> <klivin...@bh.com.au.illegaladdress> wrote:
>
> :I mean, I thought Aes Sedai were a bit more tough than that, but Rand is
> :always noticing that Alanna is crying in th back of his head. What's up with
> :that? My thoughts are that maybe she feels the taint through her bond to
> :Rand, or somehow recieves the pain that LTT feels about Illyena. Oh well, I
> :dunno.
>
> It's because she feels the pain of Rand's wound in his side.
And because of the loss of her last warder.
Philip Bowles
TeeWee Herman
Kane Livingstone (klivin...@bh.com.au.illegaladdress) wrote:
: I mean, I thought Aes Sedai were a bit more tough than that, but Rand is
: always noticing that Alanna is crying in th back of his head. What's up with
: that? My thoughts are that maybe she feels the taint through her bond to
: Rand, or somehow recieves the pain that LTT feels about Illyena. Oh well, I
: dunno.
I have put forth in another post a little theory of mine, being that a
Bond between an AS and a Warder is really a partial fusion of their
individual threads in the pattern. This can be seen as the fusion of
the seprate souls. Well, and since she lost a Warder, it is really
feeling a part of herself die. Wouldn't you cry if it happened to you?
TeeWee
-------------------------------------------------------------------
"I'll lie to him." Tsjok-Wing Man
"And if that doesn't work?" AKA
"I'll tell the truth. We're allowed TeeWee Herman
to do that in emergencies." tw...@cs.vu.nl
Ender's Game, Orson Scott Card http:www.cs.vu.nl/~twman/
Dark Regime
Alanna always crying? Well, there -is- the wound in his side, but I
tend to think it's the sudden immersion in the taint of Saidin
whenever Rand channels. Her crying episodes typically are remarked
whenever Rand Travels.
-francis
Karl-Johan Noren
In <Bd101.31$f2.449746@katana>,
"Dark Regime" <darkNOSP...@cxp.com> wrote:
Quote?
--
Karl-Johan Norén (Noren with acute e) -- k-j-...@dsv.su.se
http://www.dsv.su.se/~k-j-nore/
- To believe people are as stupid as one believes is
stupider than one can believe
James V. Di Toro III
On Fri, 24 Apr 1998 14:21:21 GMT, Dark Regime <darkNOSP...@cxp.com> wrote:
>Alanna always crying? Well, there -is- the wound in his side, but I
>tend to think it's the sudden immersion in the taint of Saidin
>whenever Rand channels. Her crying episodes typically are remarked
>whenever Rand Travels.
Yes, that true, but only by association. When he travels is
one of the few times he always thinks about her, because of the change
in distance thing. His remark of the distance shift is always
accompanied with accompanied w/ she's still crying. Can't speak of
other instances when he thinks about her, but like was said earlier,
two other things. One the recent loss of her warder. And two the
would. She has remarked on the pain that she feels from that.
--
================================================================ /| |\
James V. Di Toro III | "Given enough eyeballs, / |_| \/\
| all bugs are shallow." |()\ / ||
|------------------------------ |---0---_|
| \ / \ /
kar...@gats.hampton.va.us | www.gats.hampton.va.us/~karrde/ ^:::^
Richard M. Boye'
Kane Livingstone wrote:
>
> I mean, I thought Aes Sedai were a bit more tough than that, but Rand is
> always noticing that Alanna is crying in th back of his head. What's up with
> that? My thoughts are that maybe she feels the taint through her bond to
> Rand, or somehow recieves the pain that LTT feels about Illyena. Oh well, I
> dunno.
Two things:
1)She's manic depressive over her Warder's death, and bonding Rand has
_not_ fillled that void.
2)Rand is in pain. A _lot_ of pain. He's got that big festering wound on
his side that he's learned to cope with, but she still feels it and it
_hurts_. A _lot_.
--
Richard M. Boye' ICQ:9021244
* wa...@webspan.net
* http://www.webspan.net/~waldo/
"Let's put the 'fun' back in 'disfunctional'!"
Dewi Widjaja
Kane Livingstone wrote:
>
> I mean, I thought Aes Sedai were a bit more tough than that, but Rand
> is always noticing that Alanna is crying in th back of his head.
> What's up with that? My thoughts are that maybe she feels the taint
> through her bond to Rand, or somehow recieves the pain that LTT feels
> about Illyena.
I'm of two minds about this, either Alanna is still crying over her dead
warders (remember Verin, Leane all said it took years to get over a
warder's death), or she is crying over Rand. She would feel all the
wounds of her warder (including that wound that never heal), and Rand is
getting injured fairly often. Also, I think she can feel his emotional
state, that's how she know enough to beg Min to get to Rand in aCoS when
he was in that depression of his. She could be crying over his mental
state; Rand himself is used to being too close to the edge, but I don't
think other people are.
Chris Watts
On Fri, 24 Apr 1998 15:49:22 +0930, "Kane Livingstone"
<klivin...@bh.com.au.illegaladdress> wrote onna stick:
>I mean, I thought Aes Sedai were a bit more tough than that, but Rand is
>always noticing that Alanna is crying in th back of his head. What's up with
>that? My thoughts are that maybe she feels the taint through her bond to
>Rand, or somehow recieves the pain that LTT feels about Illyena. Oh well, I
>dunno.
>
I have been reading through all the posts that have responded to this,
and there are two major points everyone agrees on
1) the pain of the wound
2) Alannas precarious mental state after her warder dying
but everyone seems to have missed what I consider the largest factor
in this...
Rand is the Dragon Reborn, arguably the strongest male channeller
ever, and also one of the strongest males (mentally I mean) ever.
Combine this with being ta'veren and you get a pretty impressive
character. We know that Alanna cannot compell him, she likened it to
uprooting an oak tree with your bare hands. So perhaps the source of
Alanna's misery is that she is caught in a bond in which she has no
control and is being dominated completely by Rand when it should be
the other way around.
- Doov
"Could blood make the difference between this and the real world?"
DooBug6262
>I have been reading through all the posts that have responded to this,
>and there are two major points everyone agrees on
>1) the pain of the wound
>2) Alannas precarious mental state after her warder dying
>
>but everyone seems to have missed what I consider the largest factor
>in this...
>Rand is the Dragon Reborn, arguably the strongest male channeller
>ever, and also one of the strongest males (mentally I mean) ever.
>Combine this with being ta'veren and you get a pretty impressive
>character. We know that Alanna cannot compell him, she likened it to
>uprooting an oak tree with your bare hands. So perhaps the source of
>Alanna's misery is that she is caught in a bond in which she has no
>control and is being dominated completely by Rand when it should be
>the other way around.
>
>
>
>
There is also the fact that she was bonded with Rand during the time that he
was kept locked in the chest and tortured, with Lews Therin screaming inside
his head (I wonder if Alanna can hear that? Or feel LT's madness?) That would
probably be pretty scary and terrible for her, too. That combined with her
recent loss and her own probably unstable mental state could account for it
(along with all these other things, too). I don't think she's as "tough" as Aes
Sedai normally are because she is probably on the verge of a breakdown herself.
DooBug6262
The Doc
PM Bowles wrote:
>
> On Fri, 24 Apr 1998, Aaron Bergman wrote:
>
> > In article <35402...@duster.adelaide.on.net>, "Kane Livingstone"
> > <klivin...@bh.com.au.illegaladdress> wrote:
> >
> > :always noticing that Alanna is crying in th back of his head. What's up with
> > :that? My thoughts are that maybe she feels the taint through her bond to
> > :Rand, or somehow recieves the pain that LTT feels about Illyena. Oh well, I
> > :dunno.
> >
>
> And because of the loss of her last warder.
>
> Philip Bowles
Yes, mostly the Warder loss. She was extremely distraght
even before she bonded Rand. That's WHY she bonded Rand.
The Doc
Robyn
On Fri, 24 Apr 1998 15:49:22 +0930, "Kane Livingstone"
<klivin...@bh.com.au.illegaladdress> wrote:
>I mean, I thought Aes Sedai were a bit more tough than that, but Rand is
>always noticing that Alanna is crying in th back of his head. What's up with
>that? My thoughts are that maybe she feels the taint through her bond to
>Rand, or somehow recieves the pain that LTT feels about Illyena. Oh well, I
>dunno.
>
>
When Rand allows her to heal him she asks him how he can stand the
pain.. meaning from the wound in his side. I think she can feel his
pain from that and can not handle it. Or maybe she just can not deal
with the fact that what she did to him was akin to rape. What I have
been wondering is why didnt Rand give her some kind of protection.. I
mean if she dies he could die too right? What possible reason did she
have for bonding him?
Student
Robyn wrote:
>
> On Fri, 24 Apr 1998 15:49:22 +0930, "Kane Livingstone"
> <klivin...@bh.com.au.illegaladdress> wrote:
>
> >I mean, I thought Aes Sedai were a bit more tough than that, but Rand is
> >always noticing that Alanna is crying in th back of his head. What's up with
> >that? My thoughts are that maybe she feels the taint through her bond to
> >Rand, or somehow recieves the pain that LTT feels about Illyena. Oh well, I
> >dunno.
> >
> >
>
siuans case. j.s.s
William Lewis
Chris Watts (c942...@helios.newcastle.edu.au) wrote:
: I have been reading through all the posts that have responded to this,
: and there are two major points everyone agrees on
: 1) the pain of the wound
: 2) Alannas precarious mental state after her warder dying
While I agree with both of these, there is one thing I would like to add.
I believe that there are few people who really understand that Rand is
a *person* going through all of this, not simply a male chaneller, the
Dragon Reborn, whatever. Before the bond, Alanna didn't understand
all that Rand is going through. Now that he is in her head all of the
time and she knows to some extent the feelings he has, she has a much
deeper understanding of him. I think that what hurts her is that she
is honestly beginning to care for him, but he hardly even allows her
near him. I imagine it would be hard for anybody to be as close to
somebody else as a bond would make you, but be forced to stay away and
know that you aren't trusted at all by that other person.
Of course, I could be pulling all of this out of my ass, simply because
of the fact that she is crying all of the time, who knows...
--
---
Bill Lewis - wnl...@gatecom.com
Walls impede my progress...
Sarah Coit
On 27 Apr 1998, William Lewis wrote:
> Chris Watts (c942...@helios.newcastle.edu.au) wrote:
>
> : I have been reading through all the posts that have responded to this,
> : and there are two major points everyone agrees on
> : 1) the pain of the wound
> : 2) Alannas precarious mental state after her warder dying
>
> While I agree with both of these, there is one thing I would like to add.
> Before the bond, Alanna didn't understand
> all that Rand is going through. Now that he is in her head all of the
> time and she knows to some extent the feelings he has, she has a much
> deeper understanding of him. I think that what hurts her is that she
> is honestly beginning to care for him, but he hardly even allows her
> near him. I imagine it would be hard for anybody to be as close to
> somebody else as a bond would make you, but be forced to stay away and
> know that you aren't trusted at all by that other person.
> Of course, I could be pulling all of this out of my ass, simply because
> of the fact that she is crying all of the time, who knows...
No need to invest in extra toilet paper--there's some evidence in LoC
and ACoS to back you up. I'd add _Rand's_ mental state to the list,
though. She's probably picking up on a lot of his emotional grief,
compounded with her own...I wonder how many of Lews Therin's
feelings she picked up?
Adam Haun
And for that matter, what about the taint? How much of the taint is
coming through the link/
---
Adam Haun
ka...@earthlink.net
Magnus Itland
doo...@hotmail.com (Robyn) wrote:
>When Rand allows her to heal him she asks him how he can stand the
>pain.. meaning from the wound in his side. I think she can feel his
>pain from that and can not handle it. Or maybe she just can not deal
>with the fact that what she did to him was akin to rape. What I have
>been wondering is why didnt Rand give her some kind of protection.. I
>mean if she dies he could die too right?
Possibly, but not necessarily. We don't know if this effect of the
bonding holds for male Channelers. My theory is that the bond
supplies a subset of the OP trickling into the Warder (which would
account for their super health, stamina and fast healing). Rand
already has access to the OP. He might find himself grasping more
often, though, after her untimely demise.
>What possible reason did she have for bonding him?
She wanted to control him. A bond will normally allow the AS to
control (compel) her Warder to some extent.
She was also missing her dead Warder. People are known to do
strange things when they feel loss, like for instance want to
have a new child if their child dies.
Sarah Coit
On Wed, 29 Apr 1998, Magnus Itland wrote:
> doo...@hotmail.com (Robyn) wrote:
> >When Rand allows her to heal him she asks him how he can stand the
> >pain..
[snip]
> > What I have been wondering is why didnt Rand give her some kind of
> > protection.. I mean if she dies he could die too right?
>
> Possibly, but not necessarily. We don't know if this effect of the
> bonding holds for male Channelers. My theory is that the bond
> supplies a subset of the OP trickling into the Warder (which would
> account for their super health, stamina and fast healing). Rand
> already has access to the OP. He might find himself grasping more
> often, though, after her untimely demise.
[snip]
I have wondered whether two channelers bound together could
automatically link if they were holding the Power at the same
time, even if they weren't in proximity to each other. Probably
not, but it seems worth a try.
Oh, and about protection--didn't Rand forbid Alanna to leave her
room without an escort of Maidens? I'm not sure exactly what
his purpose was there, but it effectively gave her some protection.
OTOH, does he even know that Warders usually die when their bonded
Aes Sedai die? One possible plot line here is that Alanna _will_
die, and Elayne will have to bond him to keep him alive. On the
other hand, Alanna might go completely bonkers, and wouldn't _that_
be a pretty picture?
Kay-Arne Hansen
Sarah Coit wrote:
>
> On Wed, 29 Apr 1998, Magnus Itland wrote:
>
> > doo...@hotmail.com (Robyn) wrote:
> > >When Rand allows her to heal him she asks him how he can stand the
> > >pain..
> [snip]
> > > What I have been wondering is why didnt Rand give her some kind of
> > > protection.. I mean if she dies he could die too right?
> >
> > Possibly, but not necessarily. We don't know if this effect of the
> > bonding holds for male Channelers. My theory is that the bond
> > supplies a subset of the OP trickling into the Warder (which would
> > account for their super health, stamina and fast healing). Rand
> > already has access to the OP. He might find himself grasping more
> > often, though, after her untimely demise.
> [snip]
>
> I have wondered whether two channelers bound together could
> automatically link if they were holding the Power at the same
> time, even if they weren't in proximity to each other. Probably
> not, but it seems worth a try.
>
> Oh, and about protection--didn't Rand forbid Alanna to leave her
> room without an escort of Maidens?
I think Rand forbid her to _come near_ him unless granted audience
first. I do not recall if he relented on that later.
I'm not sure exactly what
> his purpose was there, but it effectively gave her some protection.
> OTOH, does he even know that Warders usually die when their bonded
> Aes Sedai die?
I doubt it, or he would have set a much stronger guard.
One possible plot line here is that Alanna _will_
> die, and Elayne will have to bond him to keep him alive. On the
> other hand, Alanna might go completely bonkers, and wouldn't _that_
> be a pretty picture?
To complicate things more; if Alanna dies, Rand is almost certain to
refuse any new Bond, although the AS will be all over him to Bond him
again.
This he will do of two reasons; first because he doesn't want to make
himself vulnerable in such a matter again, second because he does not
want any women to be targets for the enemy because of him.
He will _especially_ resist any Bonds to Elayne (or Aviendha, for that
matter), since he least of all would want them in the line of fire.
If Elayne wants to bond him, she will have to force the bond on him.
And she will probably _have_ to bond him, since there's a good chance
Rand will die without it.
I can see Rand's paranoia escalating already...
---
KAH
pa...@jsucc.jsu.edu
In article <35473D...@hotmail.com>#1/1,
hans...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> Sarah Coit wrote:
> >
> > On Wed, 29 Apr 1998, Magnus Itland wrote:
> >
> > > doo...@hotmail.com (Robyn) wrote:
> > > >When Rand allows her to heal him she asks him how he can stand the
> > > >pain..
> I can see Rand's paranoia escalating already...
>
I think is says alot about the inner Rand the he didnt kill them
both instantly.
bill palya
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
Sarah Coit
On Wed, 29 Apr 1998, Kay-Arne Hansen wrote:
> Sarah Coit wrote:
> > > doo...@hotmail.com (Robyn) wrote:
> > > >When Rand allows her to heal him she asks him how he can stand the
> > > >pain..
> > > > What I have been wondering is why didnt Rand give her some kind of
> > > > protection.. I mean if she dies he could die too right?
> >
> > Oh, and about protection--didn't Rand forbid Alanna to leave her
> > room without an escort of Maidens?
>
> I think Rand forbid her to _come near_ him unless granted audience
I think he forbade her to leave her rooms without an escort in ACoS,
and forbade her to come near him without permission in LoC. But I've
been neglecting my RJ Studies homework lately and it's begining to
show. Anyway...
[snip]
> One possible plot line here is that Alanna _will_
> > die, and Elayne will have to bond him to keep him alive. On the
> > other hand, Alanna might go completely bonkers, and wouldn't _that_
> > be a pretty picture?
>
> To complicate things more; if Alanna dies, Rand is almost certain to
> refuse any new Bond, although the AS will be all over him to Bond him
> again.
> This he will do of two reasons; first because he doesn't want to make
> himself vulnerable in such a matter again, second because he does not
> want any women to be targets for the enemy because of him.
>
> He will _especially_ resist any Bonds to Elayne (or Aviendha, for that
> matter), since he least of all would want them in the line of fire.
> If Elayne wants to bond him, she will have to force the bond on him.
> And she will probably _have_ to bond him, since there's a good chance
> Rand will die without it.
> I can see Rand's paranoia escalating already...
Add in the fact that losing Alanna might drive Rand insane, therefore
making a forced bonding necessary. I really do think Alanna will
have to either die or go insane. I can't see any other good way
out of that plot loop, unless she suddenly becomes much wiser or
they convince her to take a different Warder or something cheap like
that. Similarly, I think Elaida should die, too, but that's another
story.
Daniel Demus
Sarah Coit wrote:
>
> On Wed, 29 Apr 1998, Kay-Arne Hansen wrote:
> > Sarah Coit wrote:
> > > On Wed, 29 Apr 1998, Magnus Itland wrote: [snipped]
> > > > doo...@hotmail.com (Robyn) wrote:
> > > > >When Rand allows her to heal him she asks him how he can stand the
> > > > >pain..
> > > [snip]
> > > > > What I have been wondering is why didnt Rand give her some kind of
> > > > > protection.. I mean if she dies he could die too right?
> > > [snip]
> > >
> > > Oh, and about protection--didn't Rand forbid Alanna to leave her
> > > room without an escort of Maidens?
> >
> > I think Rand forbid her to _come near_ him unless granted audience
>
> I think he forbade her to leave her rooms without an escort in ACoS,
> and forbade her to come near him without permission in LoC. But I've
> been neglecting my RJ Studies homework lately and it's begining to
> show. Anyway...
> [snip]
I thought it was forbidden all AS to enter the inner city, or in case
of audience only with an escort of Maidens, or some such.
>
> > One possible plot line here is that Alanna _will_
> > > die, and Elayne will have to bond him to keep him alive. On the
> > > other hand, Alanna might go completely bonkers, and wouldn't _that_
> > > be a pretty picture?
> >
> > To complicate things more; if Alanna dies, Rand is almost certain to
> > refuse any new Bond, although the AS will be all over him to Bond him
> > again.
> > This he will do of two reasons; first because he doesn't want to make
> > himself vulnerable in such a matter again, second because he does not
> > want any women to be targets for the enemy because of him.
> >
> > He will _especially_ resist any Bonds to Elayne (or Aviendha, for that
> > matter), since he least of all would want them in the line of fire.
> > If Elayne wants to bond him, she will have to force the bond on him.
> > And she will probably _have_ to bond him, since there's a good chance
> > Rand will die without it.
> > I can see Rand's paranoia escalating already...
>
> Add in the fact that losing Alanna might drive Rand insane, therefore
> making a forced bonding necessary. I really do think Alanna will
> have to either die or go insane. I can't see any other good way
> out of that plot loop, unless she suddenly becomes much wiser or
> they convince her to take a different Warder or something cheap like
> that. Similarly, I think Elaida should die, too, but that's another
> story.
Q: Is it possible to pass a bond on? IIRC you can, because Moiraine
meant Lan to be passed on to Nynaeve. Maybe something similar will
happen with Alanna, and Rand has no say in this.
--
Daniel
Good people, people!.....
No.....
Henk de Wilde
On Wed, 29 Apr 1998 14:20:26 -0400, Sarah Coit
<sc...@hsph.harvard.edu> wrote:
<snip>>
>Add in the fact that losing Alanna might drive Rand insane, therefore
>making a forced bonding necessary. I really do think Alanna will
>have to either die or go insane. I can't see any other good way
>out of that plot loop, unless she suddenly becomes much wiser or
>they convince her to take a different Warder or something cheap like
>that. Similarly, I think Elaida should die, too, but that's another
>story.
>
I think the Alanna/Rand situation will be resolved by Alanna being
forced by the SAS and/or Egwene to transfer the bond to Elayne.
The storyline how Moiraine and Myrelle handled Lan's bond between them
is a strong hint of this. Another is the story of Anselan and
Bara'shelle (TFoH: A New Name).
Alanna _will_ be punished for involuntarily bonding Rand as soon as
the TAS/SAS situation is resolved. The very first punishment any AS
seems to think of in case another misuses the bond is to force her to
give up that warder to an other. And guess who has been dreaming of
having him bonded for <howmany?> books now? Rand may not accept it
graciously, but he does trust Elayne, so once he has been convinced he
has to be bonded anyhow, he will no longer object.
--
Henk de Wilde
Being crazy just means you're having original delusions.
rast2@feedme
Henk de Wilde wrote:
> Alanna _will_ be punished for involuntarily bonding Rand as soon as
> the TAS/SAS situation is resolved. The very first punishment any AS
> seems to think of in case another misuses the bond is to force her to
> give up that warder to an other. And guess who has been dreaming of
> having him bonded for <howmany?> books now? Rand may not accept it
> graciously, but he does trust Elayne, so once he has been convinced he
> has to be bonded anyhow, he will no longer object.
Actually, IMO it would be better for Rand to stay bonded with
Alanna. He's big on not hurting people he loves, so he won't
want Elayne or Avi to get the bond. Alanna seems to be pretty
easy for him to handle, in terms of obeying him, which the girls
don't. Also, they are stronger than her, and it may be possible
for them to compel him (ok, maybe not).
However, who knows what RJ will have happen? Things are getting
altogether too predictable.
rast2
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Ash Ragheb
>Oh, and about protection--didn't Rand forbid Alanna to leave her
>room without an escort of Maidens? I'm not sure exactly what
>his purpose was there, but it effectively gave her some protection.
>OTOH, does he even know that Warders usually die when their bonded
>Aes Sedai die? One possible plot line here is that Alanna _will_
>die, and Elayne will have to bond him to keep him alive. On the
>other hand, Alanna might go completely bonkers, and wouldn't _that_
>be a pretty picture?
Are you suggesting that Alanna is being affected by the Taint madness
through her bond with Rand, or do you think she's just going nuts
without any outside help?
Ash
"I don't believe in getting physical until after I'm married."
"Wouldn't your husband get mad?"
- Dilbert on abstinence
Dev
Henk de Wilde vented the following on Wed, 29 Apr 1998 20:55:11 GMT:
> On Wed, 29 Apr 1998 14:20:26 -0400, Sarah Coit
> <sc...@hsph.harvard.edu> wrote:
<snip>
> the TAS/SAS situation is resolved. The very first punishment any AS
> seems to think of in case another misuses the bond is to force her to
> give up that warder to an other. And guess who has been dreaming of
> having him bonded for <howmany?> books now? Rand may not accept it
> graciously, but he does trust Elayne, so once he has been convinced he
> has to be bonded anyhow, he will no longer object.
>
have a bit of a harder time seeing that he 'has to' be bonded.
--
Devin Coon [d...@city-net.com]
Madness takes its toll. Please have exact change.
Robert Denier
The argument I think is that Rand somehow gathers some protection
against the taint by being bonded and that this protection is greatest
if he is bonded to a Aes Sedai (or other user of Saidar). If this is
true then it is also possible that the Aes Sedai in question will feel
some effects of the taint though the bond. Of course if this
supposition is true I can't remotely picture Rand ever letting anyone he
cared about hold a bond linked to him.
-Robert
Dewi Widjaja
Henk de Wilde wrote:
> On Wed, 29 Apr 1998 14:20:26 -0400, Sarah Coit
> <sc...@hsph.harvard.edu> wrote:
>
> <snip>>
> >Add in the fact that losing Alanna might drive Rand insane, therefore
> >making a forced bonding necessary. I really do think Alanna will
> >have to either die or go insane.
Alanna will die ? I'm actually looking forward to Elayne's POV when she
found out about the already existing bond, e.g. like :
--------------
(after a lot of kissing and hugging and such)
Elayne : Rand , you must not think me forward, but I've been wanting to
do something for a long time, and now that I'm a real Aes Sedai, I can
finally do it.
Rand : (pause, then warily) I'll do anything in my power for you Elayne,
anything.
Elayne : (smiling beatifically, horde of butterflies fluttering in her
belly) Will you be my Warder, Rand al'Thor ?
<silence>
Elayne : Rand ? Why don't you say something ? Stop looking around like
that. Or don't you want to be my warder ? Don't you love me ? (ominous
undertone)
Rand : (real panicky) Aah, Elayne, you know that's not true, but...
(look around again for any Forsaken to appear and try to kill him)
...you see, that's too dangerous for you , you could be target for ..
Elayne : (feet tapping the floor, hand on hips) Rand! Just answer my
question, will you be my Warder or not ?
Rand : (throwing caution to the wind) Blood and ashes, Elayne. I'm
already bonded!
<long silence, temperature drops to absolute zero>
Rand : Elayne, will you please say something ?
Elayne : (calmly) Who ?
Rand : That's not important, I...
Elayne : (reaching up and clamping Rand's head firmly between her
palms) WHO is she, Rand al'Thor ?
Rand : (blurted out) It's Alanna. (shut mouth, wishing Tarmon Gai'don
will happen right now)
Elayne : (voice steadily rising) Alanna ? That.. that GREEN Ajah woman?!
(cannot find a foul enough expletive) Not enough that I have to share
you with Min and Aviendha, and now I have to share you with Alanna ?!
Why you wool-brained...
Rand : (hurriedly) It's not like she gave me any choice, and I certainly
don't... wait a minute. SHARE me with Min ? And AVIENDHA ?! How do you
know about Aviendha ?!
(door opens with Birgitte poking her head in)
Birgitte : Elayne, an Aes Sedai wants to see Rand al'Thor. Hello, Lews
Therin (give Rand a wink), don't annoy Elayne too much , won't you ? Or
as her Warder I may be forced to kill you.
Rand : (mouth gaping) Burn me, you're Birgitte Silverbow !What
are you doing here ? Wait, her WARDER ?!
(Alanna sweeps past Birgitte into the room)
Alanna : Rand al'Thor, what is wrong with you ? I've been sensing all
sorts of strong emotions from you enough for two men. Are you in trouble
?
Elayne : (sees Alanna) YOOUUU......!!!
(Tarmon Gai'don begins)
-------------------
I'll just let RJ fill in the rest.
Dewi , who blamed after-exam euphoria on the wish-fulfillment fantasy
and RJ for taking such a long time to write the scene, or anything else
for that matter.
Henk de Wilde
On Wed, 29 Apr 1998 00:33:07 -0500, Robert Denier <den...@umr.edu>
wrote:
<snip>
>
>The argument I think is that Rand somehow gathers some protection
>against the taint by being bonded and that this protection is greatest
>if he is bonded to a Aes Sedai (or other user of Saidar). If this is
>true then it is also possible that the Aes Sedai in question will feel
>some effects of the taint though the bond. Of course if this
>supposition is true I can't remotely picture Rand ever letting anyone he
>cared about hold a bond linked to him.
>
>-Robert
I expect this (the protection due to bonding) to be true but not to
come up until after the bond has been transferred to Elayne. What Rand
doesn't know will not affect his actions, and he has so much on his
mind that it will be easy to slip this one over on him. Elayne is
certainly able to hide things "for his own good"
Henk de Wilde
On Wed, 29 Apr 1998 20:51:24 -0400, d...@city-net.com (Dev) wrote:
>Henk de Wilde vented the following on Wed, 29 Apr 1998 20:55:11 GMT:
<snip>
>Of course, bonds can be released, and if he knows that, he'l probably
>have a bit of a harder time seeing that he 'has to' be bonded.
>
Of Course?? I know of transfering bonds, but _nothing_ about releasing
them. _Of course_ I can have forgotten something, but would you then
please give me a qoute?
>--
>Devin Coon [d...@city-net.com]
>Madness takes its toll. Please have exact change.
Ach... so... du bist _auch_ toll, das macht alles wieder klar :-)
Henk de Wilde
>Henk de Wilde wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 29 Apr 1998 14:20:26 -0400, Sarah Coit
>> <sc...@hsph.harvard.edu> wrote:
>>
>> <snip>>
>> >Add in the fact that losing Alanna might drive Rand insane, therefore
>> >making a forced bonding necessary. I really do think Alanna will
>> >have to either die or go insane.
>
>Alanna will die ? I'm actually looking forward to Elayne's POV when she
>found out about the already existing bond, e.g. like :
>
>--------------
>(after a lot of kissing and hugging and such)
>
<snip>
>Elayne : (sees Alanna) YOOUUU......!!!
>
>(Tarmon Gai'don begins)
>
>-------------------
>
>I'll just let RJ fill in the rest.
>
>Dewi , who blamed after-exam euphoria on the wish-fulfillment fantasy
>and RJ for taking such a long time to write the scene, or anything else
>for that matter.
LOL!
Thanks,
RJ had better watch his back, there's so much talent in this group.
Sarah Coit
On Wed, 29 Apr 1998, Ash Ragheb wrote:
> On Wed, 29 Apr 1998 09:38:25 -0400, Sarah Coit
> <sc...@hsph.harvard.edu> wrote:
>
> >Oh, and about protection--didn't Rand forbid Alanna to leave her
> >room without an escort of Maidens? I'm not sure exactly what
> >his purpose was there, but it effectively gave her some protection.
> >OTOH, does he even know that Warders usually die when their bonded
> >Aes Sedai die? One possible plot line here is that Alanna _will_
> >die, and Elayne will have to bond him to keep him alive. On the
> >other hand, Alanna might go completely bonkers, and wouldn't _that_
> >be a pretty picture?
>
> Are you suggesting that Alanna is being affected by the Taint madness
> through her bond with Rand, or do you think she's just going nuts
> without any outside help?
Truthfully, I don't really know. What I do see is that she is
not acting all that rationally and that she doesn't seem to
be recovering from her Warder's death. Granted, she's gotten
a little better since the incident with Rand & Min, but I
think she's still so fragile that she could go insane. I think
that the taint or LTT (or both) is affecting her, indirectly,
through Rand. That is, it is driving him mad and his sanity
level is affecting hers. Since her mind was already upset
by her loss (and she has a past history of poor recoveries
from such losses; IIRC that she took 10 years to recover
from the death of the last Warder who died and bond her current
Warder), I think that Rand's instability might be the straw that
breaks the camels back. This is more speculation on my part
than an actual prediction, though.
Roy Hall
the story behind Alanna's crying.
In The Shadow Rising (tSR) Alanna shows up in the Two Rivers. Read chapter 31
and you'll see what I mean. But here's the summary.
Alanna is explaining to Perrin about the Three Oaths. In the process she tells
him about how she had brought two warders into the Two Rivers. Owein, one of
her warders, was surprised by the Whitecloaks.
Quote: "The Children caught Owein crossing an open field. I felt every arrow
that struck him until he died. I felt him die."
The bond passes so much information between the holder and the warder that the
pain of death, and the death experience itself is conveyed through the bond,
and while the Aes Sedai or warders don't physically die when they experience
their bond mate's death it must be a terrifying and painful experience. Aes
Sedai however will recover. Warders do not recover as easily, instead they
tend try and guarantee themselves a certain death avenging the Aes Sedai's
death or they ride to the Blight. Certain death either way.
Therein lies the answer. Read the book again! I guarantee you'll like it just
as well as the first time around.
JD
----------------
P.S.- The most dangerous fighters that are main characters are:
Lan, Rand, Galad, Gawyn, Mat, and if I'm missing anybody it
is because if they're still alive they haven't made much of an impression yet
and if they're dead they weren't good enough to remember.
Magnus Itland wrote:
> >
> > doo...@hotmail.com (Robyn) wrote:
> >
> > >When Rand allows her to heal him she asks him how he can stand the
> > >pain.. meaning from the wound in his side. I think she can feel his
> > >pain from that and can not handle it. Or maybe she just can not deal
> > >with the fact that what she did to him was akin to rape. What I have
> > >been wondering is why didnt Rand give her some kind of protection.. I
> > >mean if she dies he could die too right?
> >
> > Possibly, but not necessarily. We don't know if this effect of the
> > bonding holds for male Channelers. My theory is that the bond
> > supplies a subset of the OP trickling into the Warder (which would
> > account for their super health, stamina and fast healing). Rand
> > already has access to the OP. He might find himself grasping more
> > often, though, after her untimely demise.
> >
Rajiv Mote
Henk de Wilde wrote:
>
> Of Course?? I know of transfering bonds, but _nothing_ about releasing
> them. _Of course_ I can have forgotten something, but would you then
> please give me a qoute?
The implication was there in _The Great Hunt_, when Moiraine is
"taunting" Lan, asking if his bond chafes, and if he would like to be
released from it and his oaths.
-- Rajiv
mspubuse
Aaron Bergman wrote:
> In article <35402...@duster.adelaide.on.net>, "Kane Livingstone"
> <klivin...@bh.com.au.illegaladdress> wrote:
>
> :I mean, I thought Aes Sedai were a bit more tough than that, but Rand is
> :always noticing that Alanna is crying in th back of his head. What's up with
> :that? My thoughts are that maybe she feels the taint through her bond to
> :Rand, or somehow recieves the pain that LTT feels about Illyena. Oh well, I
> :dunno.
>
> It's because she feels the pain of Rand's wound in his side.
>
> Aaron
> --
> Aaron Bergman -- aber...@pantheon.yale.edu
> <http://pantheon.yale.edu/~abergman/>
> The smallest number not expressible in under ten words
She lost her warder back when they first went to the Two Rivers. That tends to
make Aes Sedai emotionally unstable for a while, say a few years.
Dewi Widjaja
Henk de Wilde wrote:
> LOL!
>
> Thanks,
> RJ had better watch his back, there's so much talent in this group.
(chirps up happily) thank you!
Henk de Wilde
Yes - Thanks :-)
Amjad Anwar
What do you think would happen if now Rand was to bond Alanna in
return?
If Elayne was to try to bond Rand she may still be sucsessful: AS can
have more than one Warder so why can't Rand be bonded to more than one
woman?
IIRC LTT was being pretty quite in Rand's head by the end of the last
book - could it be that he has perhaps moved out of Rand's head and,
using the bond, into Alanna's?
Lwc inc
Amjad Anwar wrote:
<snip>
>IIRC LTT was being pretty quite in Rand's head by the end of the last
>book - could it be that he has perhaps moved out of Rand's head and,
>using the bond, into Alanna's?
IMHO, LTT is a figment of Rand's imagination used to rationalize his impending
insanity. When Cadsuane asked him if he was hearing voices in his head, Rand
was forced to deal with this. We haven't heard from 'LTT' since. To answer
your question, no.
--Luke Cooper
Change is poison gas and I hold my breath.
I try to run away but it lingers everywhere.
I pass out, and the next morning I wake up
and see someone else. --Antti Luode, on rec.arts.poems
Dennis De St Jeor
I think Alanna is always crying because she has recently lost a warder and
is still feeling depressed...
That's somewhere in the books...I'm too lazy to look for it though.
Lwc inc wrote in message
<199805020125...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
Raffaela Betza
>She wanted to control him. A bond will normally allow the AS to
>control (compel) her Warder to some extent.
>
>She was also missing her dead Warder. People are known to do
>strange things when they feel loss, like for instance want to
>have a new child if their child dies.
i thought that *that* was why she was crying (that she misses her dead warder...)
raff
"Then he smiled...and he turned and walked away. He said over his shoulder, 'I'll be gone when
you're awake.'"