Corianin Nedeal- Dreamer & Darkfriend?
Rick Moen
>Has anyone else thought that the last Dreamer in the Tower, Corianin
>Nedeal, might have been Black Ajha? The proof coming from the fact that
>when Liandrin, and her dark sisters, left the Tower for the final time
>they took with them artifacts that had all been last studied by Corianin.
>The Tower itself had no idea what these objects did yet the Black's had
>no such problems. Does this mean they had information the Tower didn't?
>They must have. And if this info came from Corianin, which seems
>probable, she must have been a Black. What says you.
1. They may have taken them, simply on the general suspicion that
*angreal are good things to have. I favour this explanation.
2. They may have further information, beyond Corianin's, because they
conducted further research that they kept to themselves.
3. They may have kept some of Corianin's notes to themselves.
I also don't remember the Black Ajah using any of those objects in
previously unknown ways.
Cheers, My pid is Inigo Montoya. You kill -9 my
Rick Moen parent process. Prepare to vi.
ri...@hugin.imat.com
aka Rick, son of Artur (no kidding!), son of Arne
john bollinger
Robyn Goldstein <ha...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu> wrote:
>
>Corianin Nedeal does not have to be Black Ajah to explain all of this.
>The BA in the Tower could have easily been given directions from Messanna
>(who is hidden somewhere in the Tower), or another Forsaken, to take
>those specific *'angreal, and they could have been told what they
>happened to do.
The above explanation seems more than probable when you consider the
original DFS at the beginning of TGH. There were at least two BA there,
and each attendee got a series of very specific instructions from Ishy
himself. I always assumed that it was Ishy who told them exactly which
ter'angreal to take, and what to do with them.
>That's a more likely explanation, IMO. 'Sides, Verin is the one with
>Corianin's notes. For your idea to work, Verin would have had to be
>Black. Of course, Corianin could have made another copy of her notes,
>but I doubt that, considering how she was considered to be (by Verin) a
>"secretive woman". Most likely, Messana or another Forsaken passed the
>information along.
That's true, too. Of course, the proposal that Verin is BA _does_
periodically come up on this newsgroup, and the FAQ discussion of the
topic doesn't come to an irrefutable conclusion. Nevertheless, very few
people seem to actually believe that Verin is BA.
John Bollinger
jobo...@indiana.edu
Your_Name
Nedeal, might have been Black Ajha? The proof coming from the fact that
when Liandrin, and her dark sisters, left the Tower for the final time
they took with them artifacts that had all been last studied by Corianin.
The Tower itself had no idea what these objects did yet the Black's had
no such problems. Does this mean they had information the Tower didn't?
They must have. And if this info came from Corianin, which seems
probable, she must have been a Black. What says you.
Robyn Goldstein
Your_Name <Email_...@ccinet.ab.ca> wrote:
Corianin Nedeal does not have to be Black Ajah to explain all of this.
The BA in the Tower could have easily been given directions from Messanna
(who is hidden somewhere in the Tower), or another Forsaken, to take
those specific *'angreal, and they could have been told what they
happened to do.
That's a more likely explanation, IMO. 'Sides, Verin is the one with
Corianin's notes. For your idea to work, Verin would have had to be
Black. Of course, Corianin could have made another copy of her notes,
but I doubt that, considering how she was considered to be (by Verin) a
"secretive woman". Most likely, Messana or another Forsaken passed the
information along.
Hawk
http://gwis2.circ.gwu.edu/~hawk/
-Don't look like much up close. Kind of... soft and squishing looking.
There are people who would argue those are *two* of my *best* characteristics.
Karl-Johan Noren
> In <42n9l4$e...@news-2.ccinet.ab.ca>,
> Email_...@ccinet.ab.ca (Your_Name) writes:
> >Has anyone else thought that the last Dreamer in the Tower, Corianin
> >Nedeal, might have been Black Ajha? The proof coming from the fact that
> >when Liandrin, and her dark sisters, left the Tower for the final time
> >they took with them artifacts that had all been last studied by Corianin.
> >The Tower itself had no idea what these objects did yet the Black's had
> >no such problems. Does this mean they had information the Tower didn't?
> >They must have. And if this info came from Corianin, which seems
> >probable, she must have been a Black. What says you.
IIRC, there is some comment from one of the BAs that they
were told _exactly_ what to take when leaving, ie they got
their information from one of the Forsaken (in all
likelihood Mesaana, or maybe Ishamael).
The reason they were instructed to take those particular
ter'angreal we don't have any conclusive proof about anyway,
but my guess is that they took all the T'A'R connected
ter'angreal recorded either (or both) to minimise the
possibility for the WT to re-discover T'A'R, or that they
saw some use for BAs able to enter it.
And even if the knowledge didn't come from the Forsaken,
there are other explanations, outlined by Rick.
> 1. They may have taken them, simply on the general suspicion that
> *angreal are good things to have. I favour this explanation.
> 2. They may have further information, beyond Corianin's, because they
> conducted further research that they kept to themselves.
> 3. They may have kept some of Corianin's notes to themselves.
>
> I also don't remember the Black Ajah using any of those objects in
> previously unknown ways.
Almost all of the ter'angreal were Use: unknown. But they
did use them.
Venligen
Karl-Johan
--
+----------------------------------------------------------+
| Karl-Johan Norén e-mail: k-j-...@dsv.su.se |
| WWW: http://www.dsv.su.se/~k-j-nore/ |
| The man of the Varyingly-voweled Surname |
+----------------------------------------------------------+
Rick Moen
>IIRC, there is some comment from one of the BAs that they
>were told _exactly_ what to take when leaving, ie they got
>their information from one of the Forsaken (in all
>likelihood Mesaana, or maybe Ishamael).
[further excellent reasoning omitted]
I agree that all this constitutes excellent reason to suspect the
Forsaken's hands in this. In particular, there is even _less_
reason to finger* Corianin Nedeal.
My apologies for not re-checking the FAQ before replying to the newbie
who raised this matter, by the way. I usually do.
Cheers, My pid is Inigo Montoya. You kill -9 my
Rick Moen parent process. Prepare to vi.
ri...@hugin.imat.com
aka Rick, son of Artur (no kidding!), son of Arne
*No TCP/IP-utility jokes, please.
Rick Moen
>In article <abergman-090...@td-college-kstar-node.net.yale.edu>,
>aber...@minerva.cis.yale.edu (Aaron Bergman) writes:
>
>>Of course not. It's Moiraine that is Black Ajah. Just where was she at
>>the beginning of The Great Hunt?
>
>MORAINE?!!?! I'll believe it when I see it.
Nahhh. Aaron was just kidding you. Of course Moiraine isn't
a darkfriend.
Now, Siuan Sanche, on the other hand, is _obviously_ a darkfriend.
Cheers, My pid is Inigo Montoya. You kill -9 my
Rick Moen parent process. Prepare to vi.
ri...@hugin.imat.com
aka Rick, son of Artur (no kidding!), son of Arne
P.S.: You've retrieved that FAQ by now, right? Read section 1.41.
Then the rest of it. Happy reading! ;->
DaveH1a
Mmike
aber...@minerva.cis.yale.edu (Aaron Bergman) wrote:
~Of course not. It's Moiraine that is Black Ajah. Just where was she at the
~beginning of The Great Hunt?
Healing Thom's wounds, and convincing him to go to Carhien.
What's your point?
--
mmike
Aaron Bergman
jobo...@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (john bollinger) wrote:
:That's true, too. Of course, the proposal that Verin is BA _does_
:periodically come up on this newsgroup, and the FAQ discussion of the
:topic doesn't come to an irrefutable conclusion. Nevertheless, very few
:people seem to actually believe that Verin is BA.
Of course not. It's Moiraine that is Black Ajah. Just where was she at the
beginning of The Great Hunt?
Aaron
--------
Aaron Bergman -- aber...@minerva.cis.yale.edu
<http://minerva.cis.yale.edu/~abergman/abergman.html>
--A flag burning amendment would burn the flag--
UserName
I especially like reason no.4, but then i think Nynaeve
would have her urge to kill Moiraine raise just a LITTLE bit
dont you think?
-JCoole
Bill Garrett
}
} Of course not. It's Moiraine that is Black Ajah. Just where was she at the
} beginning of The Great Hunt?
Ah, yes, I know an opening when I see it!
From the home office in Ebou Dar...
THE TOP TEN PLACES MOIRAINE MIGHT HAVE BEEN
AT THE BEGINNING OF _THE GREAT HUNT_:
10. At a Tupperware party
9. Went to an all-U-can-eat restaurant, wanted to get money's worth
8. Went to take a leak and got lost
7. Visiting her secret lover
6. Used OP to turn invisble while playing hide-n-seek, everyone
gave up on her
5. Captured and questioned by Semhirage, then impersonated by her
4. Tied up as a sex-slave in Lan's tent
3. Waiting in line for Bulls tickets
2. At a Darkfriend Social, drinking tequila and talking about Novak
And, finally, the number-one place Moiraine might have been:
1. Robert Jordan simply forgot to include her in first few chapters.
--
Bill Garrett The problem with keeping an open mind is
gar...@cs.unc.edu that my ideas all tend to fall out...
T RYAN
>'Sides, Verin is the one with
>Corianin's notes. For your idea to work, Verin would have had to be
>Black. Of course, Corianin could have made another copy of her notes,
>but I doubt that, considering how she was considered to be (by Verin) a
>"secretive woman".
I personally don't think she is BA. I think the pertinent
question is " WHY is she not revealing Corianin's findings/
notes to Egwene?" What is she sitting on? Why? Is she acting
under Siuan's direction or perhaps her own Ajah has an axe to
grind? What ifs Dreaming can be taught, Corianin knew this but
couldn't find anyone with the proper potential. Take note of the
different angreals that pull one into T'AR. Comments anyone?
Disclaimer: I looked in the FAQ..at least until my eyes blurred...
... God said: E = «mvı - Zeı/r ...and there *WAS* light!
---
ş Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR] ş
Emma Pease
(she is Verin below)
> I personally don't think she is BA. I think the pertinent
> question is " WHY is she not revealing Corianin's findings/
> notes to Egwene?" What is she sitting on? Why? Is she acting
> under Siuan's direction or perhaps her own Ajah has an axe to
> grind? What ifs Dreaming can be taught, Corianin knew this but
> couldn't find anyone with the proper potential. Take note of the
> different angreals that pull one into T'AR. Comments anyone?
I personally don't think Verin did tell Siuan that she was giving
Egwene the ter'angreal. Note that Siuan did not know about the
properties of the ter'angreal when she cross examined Nynaeve and
Elayne at Salidar.
The brown ajah is up to something. Note that Nesune Bihara was
ordered on to Elaida's embassy by the head of the browns but we don't
know why. I doubt however that Verin is involved in that matter. She
may however have connections with the two sisters in Arafel. I would
like to know who told Moiraine about them since barely anyone in the
tower knew they were still alive and Moiraine is still a young sister.
Emma
--
\----
|\* | Emma Pease unsolicited commercial email will
|_\/ em...@csli.stanford.edu be returned to sender and postmaster
Walter Hedges
>That's a more likely explanation, IMO. 'Sides, Verin is the one with
>Corianin's notes. For your idea to work, Verin would have had to be
>Black. Of course, Corianin could have made another copy of her notes,
>but I doubt that, considering how she was considered to be (by Verin) a
>"secretive woman". Most likely, Messana or another Forsaken passed the
>information along.
Perhaps Corianin Nedeal chose one Aes Sedai to pass her knowledge onto
who she could trust not share it with others and who would likewise
also choose another younger Aes Sedai, thus starting a line which
leads to Verin. Verin thus could be working on her own agenda and not
be Black Ajah.
S. Kent Worsnop
>In <42rp3n$d...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, dav...@aol.com (DaveH1a) writes:
>>In article <abergman-090...@td-college-kstar-node.net.yale.edu>,
>>aber...@minerva.cis.yale.edu (Aaron Bergman) writes:
>>
>>>Of course not. It's Moiraine that is Black Ajah. Just where was she at
>>>the beginning of The Great Hunt?
>>
>>MORAINE?!!?! I'll believe it when I see it.
>Now, Siuan Sanche, on the other hand, is _obviously_ a darkfriend.
Oh come on if Moiraine isn't black then Siuan isn't Black. However
Erica has made an interesting case for Egwene.
Kent
--
A man, sat aghast at a formal dinner party as an elegant woman in formal
evening dress carefully piled a pile of mashed turnips atop her head. "Madam,"
he said finally. "Why are you piling turnips on your head?" "Turnips?"
she cried. "My god! I though they were carrots!"
Kent,Cutter of Turnips --- ke...@is.dal.ca
Rick Moen
>ri...@ymir.imat.com (Rick Moen) wrote:
>>[directing a newbie who claimed "Moiraine is Black" to the FAQ]
>>Now, Siuan Sanche, on the other hand, is _obviously_ a darkfriend.
>
> Oh come on if Moiraine isn't black then Siuan isn't Black. However
>Erica has made an interesting case for Egwene.
Brother Worsnop missed where I'd directed el newbie to FAQ section
1.41 ("Who Is Not a Darkfriend). What I wonder is, do the group's
Properly Constituted Authorities {T.I.N.C.} allow gloating at this
point, or not? Just wondering.
Robyn Goldstein
>Perhaps Corianin Nedeal chose one Aes Sedai to pass her knowledge onto
>who she could trust not share it with others and who would likewise
>also choose another younger Aes Sedai, thus starting a line which
>leads to Verin. Verin thus could be working on her own agenda and not
>be Black Ajah.
Verin said that the only reason that she found Corianin's notes was b/c
of her habit of poking her nose into places that people haven't been in
for a while. Nobody gave her those notes.
Hawk
Robyn Goldstein
Rebecca Slitt (MC 1997) <rsl...@minerva.cis.yale.edu> wrote:
>Robyn Goldstein (ha...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu) wrote:
>: Verin said that the only reason that she found Corianin's notes was b/c
>: of her habit of poking her nose into places that people haven't been in
>: for a while. Nobody gave her those notes.
> However, there's still that passage (narration from Verin's POV)
>where Verin describes Corianin as being secretive and telling nobody what
>was in her notes. That sounds like she knew Corianin personally.
Or Corianin could have said something in her notes that led Verin to
believe that. It's not inconceiveable that she wrote both notes on the
*'angreal and on her personal life/feelings.
> And when have we ever been able to believe anything Verin said? :)
Ummm.... give me a moment...
>PS: If this article appears twice, my apologies. My newsreader has been a
>little temperamental lately.
Only appeared once. You're safe.
Hawk
http://gwis2.circ.gwu.edu/~hawk/