Bela Killed Asmodean
finn
It could HAPPEN!
finn
p.s. Well, at least I was SECOND.
--
"I hope life isn't a big joke, because I don't get it."
-- Jack Handey
Molly, a little girl
: Book five of his Wheel of Time series is definately the best yet!
: I have a couple of the series with his autograph.
I'll agree. I only hope that book 6 is even better. He's got so many
plot threads interwoven, I'm caught and bound.
-------------
Molly
Nick Sadowy
I have a couple of the series with his autograph.
when is the next book due to be out?
Just Nick
sad...@acsu.buffalo.edu
David Hauth
"convinced" (read: it could happen, and it would be interesting...) that
Shai-Tan HIMSELF killed Asmodean.
It makes sense: Asmodean's last words were "No! Not YOU!" or something to
that effect. Who else could have found him? Also, toss in the additional
fact that all of the known cuellindar seals on the Dark One's prison have
crumbled into dust...
It would set up the 6th book nicely...and perhaps make the 6th book the final
one :'(
Dave Hauth
Jason Zapman II
: Also, toss in the additional
: fact that all of the known cuellindar seals on the Dark One's prison have
^^^ ?!!
: crumbled into dust...
all? I thought that at least one had yet to be found (Morain saying that
"if the others are like this" when describing the two intact but brittle
ones) well, you'll flame me if I'm wrong...
FlameShield v5.1.3 *ENGAGED*
:)
--
\0/ \0/ \ \ / / \0/ \0/ \0/ \ \ / / \0/ \0/
| / /) | (\ | | / /) | (\ \ |
____/ \___/\___/0\___/0\___/0\___/ \___/ \___/\___/0\___/0\___/0\___/\___/ \___
Jason Zapman II * If people who eat vegetables are
Aspiring Computer Science major. * called vegetarians, then shouldn't
gt5...@prism.gatech.edu * cannibals be called humanitarians?
\0/ \0/ \ \ / / \0/ \0/ \0/ \ \ / / \0/ \0/
| / /) | (\ | | / /) | (\ \ |
____/ \___/\___/0\___/0\___/0\___/ \___/ \___/\___/0\___/0\___/0\___/\___/ \___
--
Schnood
>I have mulled over this with another RJ fan here in Edmonton, and we are
both
>"convinced" (read: it could happen, and it would be interesting...) that
>Shai-Tan HIMSELF killed Asmodean.
>
>It makes sense: Asmodean's last words were "No! Not YOU!" or something to
>that effect. Who else could have found him? Also, toss in the additional
>fact that all of the known cuellindar seals on the Dark One's prison have
>crumbled into dust...
I personally think that Lanfear was the one who killed Asmodean. It also
would explain his last words. That would also mean that Moiraine is
(maybe) out there as well, though it would be my guess she was stilled by
Lanfear. I doubt the warder bond would function if the Warder's Aes
Sedai were stilled, since it is undoubtably a product of the One Power.
Of course, since it seems likely that Nynaeve is going to figure out a
way to 'cure' stilling, it may be that she is dead if Jordan decided she
wasn't needed for the storyline any more. Oh well...
---
#include witty_sig.h
Kent Worsnop
>It would set up the 6th book nicely...and perhaps make the 6th book the final
>one :'(
Robert Jordan has already said the series will go at least 7 if not 8 books.
[Ahh don't worry about it in one of my theories Verrin has to be a transsexual
for it to work.]
--
The Gold Dragon (ke...@chem.queensu.ca)
David Hauth
been found, then their physical state is not _known_.
:')
It would make sense to have the Great Lord of the Dark show up now; other-
wise Rand just keeps getting stronger and stronger and stronger (in books
6, 7 and 8) and in book 9 just sweeps aside the Dark Lord like chaff. If
the Dark Lord shows up NOW, then Rand will be caught off-guard and will
have to really SCRAMBLE to gather his energies...
Dave.
No flames intended.
Marc Nimchuk
Who killed Asmodean? Lanfear. Simple. I _know_. ;)
Actually if you read the passage, it seems that Asmodean is surprised to
encounter whomever it is, but not astonsishingly so. Sounds like he's more
startled than anything. Then of course he gets killed. What a bum rap.
Definately Lanfear. How many Forsaken are left anyways? Five or six?
PS. I just found this lovely group! Hurrah! Anyone know if there's a
similar group for Tad Williams?
Joe Uno Shaw
> PS. I just found this lovely group! Hurrah! Anyone know if there's a
> similar group for Tad Williams?
No, but there is occassional discussion of Memory, Sorrow and Thorn
over on the 'regular' group, rec.arts.sf.written , which is the
proper place for discussion of any other fantasy author(s) as well
as science fiction.
(Not a flame, Marc, just using your question to point this out to
those who didn't know, since it seems to be a well kept secret that
fantasy is discussed there.)
- Joe
--
"I kiss every book before I read it. That's the kind of guy I am."
-- Conan O'Brien on LNwCOB, 7/25/94
"Watch the Conan O'Brien show. You'll see."
-- Bart Simpson. This _is_ my hobby!
Schnood
>My only complaint -- and quesiton -- is what happened to Perrin? He is
>only mentioned like once in the whole of book five. I was surprised, and
>felt a bit cheated. I really want to know what he's up to back there in
>the Two Rivers.
The fifth book is happening about the same time period as the fourth.
Did you think that Rand and the others just sat around for the couple of
months that the fourth book took?
---
#include witty_sig.h
Jason Zapman II
: Moghedian is in no condition to do anything like killing Asmodean. She
: is trapped in the town where the renegade Aes Sedai are and she got
: drugged by Nynaeve with that stuff which inhibits the use of the One
: Power. I'm sure Nynaeve and Elayne are going to have fun finding her...
good point. I didn't think of that problem. though if she had the power,
it would be very like her.
*CHUNK* as the theory hits the waste basket.
--
/\
/ \
\ \__
_ \ \o\
|_0 \ \o\=
~~~~~~~~~~~||~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
__________________________________________________________________________
Jason Zapman II E-mail: gt5...@prism.gatech.edu TX BA 449
--
Charles Buckley
The book store I frequent gave me a release date of November.
Charles Buckley
David A Bergman
: In article <CtLx...@acsu.buffalo.edu>,
: Nick Sadowy <sad...@acsu.buffalo.edu> wrote:
: >
: >when is the next book due to be out?
: >
: >Just Nick
: >sad...@acsu.buffalo.edu
: >
: The book store I frequent gave me a release date of November.
Which means October in publisher-speak.
Aaron
: Charles Buckley
ba09029
|> It would set up the 6th book nicely...and perhaps make the 6th book the final
|> one :'(
|>
|> Dave Hauth
|>
I really doubt that the sixith book is going to be the last one. Figuring that
the beginning of the first book is really important in relation to the things
that the Dragon does in his life, Rand has a long way to go ...
Elan Morin Tedronai, the Betrayer of Hope goes on for a full paragraph about Lews
Therin's acomplishments. In no way could Jordan sum all this up into on final
book, trust me on this guys, we've got a ways to go.
Erik Herz
ba0...@bingsuns.cc.binghamton.edu
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"I AM THE ANGEL OF DEATH!"
"But I am too young to die ..."
"Hmm, okay if you won't accept death, how about a rubber chicken?"
-The Muppets Go to The Movies
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
jame...@donald.cc.utexas.edu
David Hauth <dha...@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca> wrote:
>I don't know about the Lanfear angle...I think she and Moiraine are dead.
You've got to be in the minority here. If they are dead, why didn't RJ
just *kill* them? Frankly, I don't think anyone is dead--Even Ingtar
(we heard screams, but we did with Thom too). jus kiddin...:-)
>I will still cling to my Shai Tan angle. I don't have the book with me
But why? Why would the DO go after a forsaken forsaken? If he could
take physical form, you'd think he'd have bigger fish to fry. It just
doesn't seem right that the first thing the DO does is take out Asm.
>And, I suppose RJ could make 2 or 3 books of Rand vs. Shai Tan quite
>interesting :')
You bet! He made three books of Rand vs. Ba'alzamon interesting enough.
Cheers,
James
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
James Yu | Paz y amor.
jame...@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu | Love and Pez.
Dominic Braun
the Waldenbooks magazine ) that there will be seven books.
Of course, the same article said that this had originally started out as
a trilogy.
...Sigh <Digging in for the despair of waiting>
Dominic Braun
Rob Crowther
that she and Moirgaine died by falling through that red doorframe, but
Mat came back after having travelled through to the other side. Having
them disappear like that was a little bit too convenient for bringing
them back at an opportune moment in the next book, or the next one, or
whenever.
--
Robert L. Crowther, II -- Computer Wave Newspaper -- 206-284-5476
Rob Crowther
series I've read in a long time.
My only complaint -- and quesiton -- is what happened to Perrin? He is
only mentioned like once in the whole of book five. I was surprised, and
felt a bit cheated. I really want to know what he's up to back there in
the Two Rivers.
Michael Bergman
>I agree. Besides, I heard a rumor ( actually I think that I read it in
>the Waldenbooks magazine ) that there will be seven books.
Wrong. RJ is supposed to have said there will be *at least* seven books.
IMO this means that there will probably be 8, I partly judge this from the
pace of the story. He can't change it to go faster after 5 books, that
would ruin the whole thing. It has to "grow" by the rate he's set and I
think he's doing a pretty good job. It's getting more and more "grand" as
it has to to lead up to such a serious thing as the Armageddon.
However I couldn't finish the story off myself in less than another 2500
pages or so (including LoC) wihtout forcing it so there will be 8 books :-)
>Of course, the same article said that this had originally started out as
>a trilogy.
According to a quote from RJ at same occasion(?) He's claimed to
have said that at 1st he tought he could connect the 1st and last event
(the Trolloc attack on Emond's Field and Tarmon Gaidon (spelling!?)) in no
more than 4 books. (Do correct me if I quote incorrectly here...)
To interpret this as "it started out as a trilogy" smells like jumping
to conclusions, but perhaps I'm just a wee bit picky...
Cheers,
M
--
Michael Bergman Email: eua...@eua.ericsson.se
EUA/XO Phone: +46 8 7275709
Ellemtel Telecom Systems Labs, Armborstv 14, S-125 25 Alvsjo, Sweden
--
In the middle of chaos a voice spoke to me: "Laugh and be happy for it
could be worse!" - And I smiled and was happy and it got worse.
David Hauth
AND...Lanfear probably wouldn't kill Asmodean, because she knows that
Rand/Lews Therin is dead meat without a teacher.
I will still cling to my Shai Tan angle. I don't have the book with me
(I had borrowed it from a friend), but the _feel_ of the passage at the
time I read it made me think that the Dark One did it.
And, I suppose RJ could make 2 or 3 books of Rand vs. Shai Tan quite
interesting :')
Still only 2 cents....
Dave
David Hauth
Cheers.
Dave
Kai Kunze
>Who killed Asmodean? Lanfear. Simple. I _know_. ;)
I don't think so. It's only one day and 50 pages after Moiraine and Lanfear
stumbled in that doorway. Why should they disappear in such a dramatic way
if one of them reappears on the next day exactly at the right place and time ?
I don't expect to see Lanfear or Morain before the second half of the 6. Book.
>Actually if you read the passage, it seems that Asmodean is surprised to
>encounter whomever it is, but not astonsishingly so. Sounds like he's more
>startled than anything. Then of course he gets killed. What a bum rap.
Well, i have the book in hand :=)
'One step, and he stopped, the blood draining from his face. "You ? No !"
The word still hung in the air when dead took him.'
>Definately Lanfear. How many Forsaken are left anyways? Five or six?
It could have been anybody who Asmodean knew and who was powerful enough to
kill him in short order. That would definitely be a forsaken (or the DO, but
i don't believe THAT).
It seems to me that one of the forsaken was watching Raevin, but found it
wise not to commit himself (or herself).
I would not dare to make a guess who it was, but i'm quite shure it was not
Lanfear.
Kai
--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Kai Kunze Violence is the last refuge
Orczy Sultan of the incompetent
kaik...@marie.physik.tu-berlin.de -Salvor Hardin
----------------------------------------------------------------
Brian Postow
I doubt it) That EVERYONE will be surprised by who killed Asy... my
theory is that its is someone that no ono would ever have guessed, but
when we see it, we will all go: "of COURSE. it was SO obvious!" but we
will neven guess...
Then again, I could be wrong B-)
--
Brian Postow :: The Pasta Knight -- That noodleheaded Knight in shiny armour
FOO: Foo Of Oberlin | the foo, the proud: the Foo.
pessimist, advanced murphologist | "Is the glass half full or empty, I ask
part time fatalist, Follower of the | her as I fill it. 'It doesn't really
Way of the FOO. | matter, pretty soon you're bound to
"pessimism for a better tomorrow" | spill it'" Indigo Girls
Cindy How
split of for the LONGEST time now!
Second of all: I'm a bit behind in the reading (woah, talk about a
flood of notes!), so forgive me if this idea has come up...I haven't had
time to read the groups for a while....
Okay...here's my though on Lanfear killing Asmodean...I think it's
entirely plausible...If Moirane and Lanfear went through the doorway, it
doesn't really matter how long they were in there, or what happened in
there at this point...it has been speculated that it's one of those
slightly skewed worlds like the ones the portal stones lead to, yes?
Well if it is, time runs differently in there, so Lanfear could have
immerged 30 years older (picture that, Roy ;) but none the less, she
could have returned...
Just a random thought...
Cindy
--
Cindy How
e-mail: en...@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu
ci...@jupiter.esd.ornl.gov (temporary)
Jason Zapman II
: >Definately Lanfear. How many Forsaken are left anyways? Five or six?
I believe that the number remaining is six.
: It could have been anybody who Asmodean knew and who was powerful enough to
: kill him in short order. That would definitely be a forsaken (or the DO, but
: i don't believe THAT).
: It seems to me that one of the forsaken was watching Raevin, but found it
: wise not to commit himself (or herself).
: I would not dare to make a guess who it was, but i'm quite shure it was not
: Lanfear.
Mogheidian comes to mind. The spider would be doing something like that.
:) I don't think that Sameal (sp, the dude in llanar [POORLY spelled, the
name compleatly escapes me. I need to reread these things soon. :)])
oh well
Flamers of spelling will be hunted down and drawn and quartered for the
narrowminded morons that they are. :)
--
Jason Allen Price ___/| aka Zapman
gt5...@prism.gatech.edu \O.-| TX Ba449
----oOO =(___)= OOo------------
''' U '''
"CompSci Sesame Street has been brought to you by the
language C and the Number F."
--
Schnood
>Mogheidian comes to mind. The spider would be doing something like that.
>:) I don't think that Sameal (sp, the dude in llanar [POORLY spelled, the
>name compleatly escapes me. I need to reread these things soon. :)])
Moghedian is in no condition to do anything like killing Asmodean. She
is trapped in the town where the renegade Aes Sedai are and she got
drugged by Nynaeve with that stuff which inhibits the use of the One
Power. I'm sure Nynaeve and Elayne are going to have fun finding her...
---
#include witty_sig.h
Schnood
>AND...Lanfear probably wouldn't kill Asmodean, because she knows that
>Rand/Lews Therin is dead meat without a teacher.
I don't think that Lanfear cares very much any more. After all, the last
time they met I think she was prepared to kill him anyway after he turned
her down. Killing his tutor is mearly the first step in that. Lanfear
was ever the jealous sort...
---
#include witty_sig.h
MacDougall
Hmmm, I thought from the start that the series was going to have seven parts.
Seven spokes to the Wheel of Time? I thought it made sense...
And looking at the escalation of the books, it is *well* within reason for
all the prophecies to come true within the next two books. The lot of
them already have massive powers. Cities throughout the wolrd are already
crumbling before Rand, Egwene is practically the Amyrlin Seat now,
yadda yadda yadda.
Book Six would fill some more plot points, and book seven would be
Tarmon Gaidon. It *has* to be soon, what with all the seals breaking
(broken? I lost count)
Doug
MacD
shh...@ocvaxa.cc.oberlin.edu
heart of hearts I hope that it turns out to have been Padan Fain. I think it
would be a little more interesting than Lanfear escaping her supposed death.
Hayden
Phil
shh...@ocvaxa.cc.oberlin.edu wrote:
: Well,I think Lanfear is a good choice for the one who killed Asmodean. In my
: heart of hearts I hope that it turns out to have been Padan Fain. I think it: would be a little more interesting than Lanfear escaping her supposed death.
: Hayden
uhh wasnt Padan Fain somewhere near the white tower.. I didnt think enough
time had elapsed for a trip to camylan(sp)
*shrug*
me.
Jason Zapman II
:Well, I think Lanfear is a good choice for the one who killed Asmodean. In my
: would be a little more interesting than Lanfear escaping her supposed death.
hmmm. would As have recognised Fain? He was brought to Shayol Ghul (sp),
and the seals were weakening...
but then some of the others would have been freed, and the DO would have
sent them instead of 100 trolocks after rand and crew in the Two Rivers.
oh well.
--
He is no fool | Jason Zapman II
Who gives-up what he cannot keep| gt5...@prism.gatech.edu
To gain what he cannot lose. | TX BA449
-- Jim Elliot |
--
Trista Brown
: >a trilogy.
: According to a quote from RJ at same occasion(?) He's claimed to
: have said that at 1st he tought he could connect the 1st and last event
: (the Trolloc attack on Emond's Field and Tarmon Gaidon (spelling!?)) in no
: more than 4 books. (Do correct me if I quote incorrectly here...)
: To interpret this as "it started out as a trilogy" smells like jumping
: to conclusions, but perhaps I'm just a wee bit picky...
Do you remember Isaac Asimov and Piers Anthony? I believe that it was
those two who proved that the 'tri' in 'trilogy' was only a tradition.
(i.e. 7-8 books in a 'trilogy' series.)
*grin*
--Trista
* * * * * * * * * *
"I cordially dislike allegory in all its
manifestations, and always have done so
since I grew old and wary enough
to detect its presence.
Trista Brown I much prefer history, true or feigned,
with its varied applicability
to the thought and experience of readers..."
tkb...@vela.acs.oakland.edu --J. R. R. Tolkien
Martin Cox
>Okay...here's my though on Lanfear killing Asmodean...I think it's
>entirely plausible...If Moirane and Lanfear went through the doorway, it
>doesn't really matter how long they were in there, or what happened in
>there at this point...it has been speculated that it's one of those
>slightly skewed worlds like the ones the portal stones lead to, yes?
>Well if it is, time runs differently in there, so Lanfear could have
>immerged 30 years older (picture that, Roy ;) but none the less, she
>could have returned...
Just to add my $0.02 worth :-)
Aren't we forgetting that Rhavin was "plotting with Graendal and Sammael".
At least that's what Moghedien told Nynaeve under the influence of the a'dam.
She even said that Rand would run into *both* Rhavin _and_ Graendal at the
trap. I'm assuming this meant the fight at the palace (and T'A'R).
Sooo..... Isn't it more likely that Graendal killed Asmodean having seen that
Rand had wiped Rhavin? That would explain why there wasn't any other mention
of Graendal at the palace....
And while we're on the subject (Sort of :) ), I'd vote with the "Moiraine is
stilled" group :) It makes the most sens (IMHO). Then she gets to be with
Thom, can still use her Daes Dae'mar skills to help Rand (esp with Thom's
assistance), and doesn't get removed from the picture...
And finally, is it just me or was the Baelfire removal of Rhavin telegraphed
the instant Aviendha "died" ? (Not that I'm complaining :) Much)
Martin.
(sig under construction)
gree...@news.delphi.com
If time differs after falling through the Rhuidean doorway, it is all
one way. More time seems to pass in Randland than through the doorway.
Two examples:
The bits and pieces we get of the Tale of Bili. He comes out after x
years, no older, and presumably he asks for gold or gold producing
devices, so it sounds like the fox gate to me.
Mat spends, by his own feelings, at most two hours in the gate, and
then IMMEDIATELY feels the rope around his neck. Later we learn that he
has been there a week.
So I don't think Lanfear will come out 30 years older. Besides, her
links to the DO would compensate, wouldn't they?
Gary Greenbaum
WILLARD,LANE,BRADLEY
>
>>I have mulled over this with another RJ fan here in Edmonton, and we are
>both
>>"convinced" (read: it could happen, and it would be interesting...) that
>>Shai-Tan HIMSELF killed Asmodean.
>>
>>It makes sense: Asmodean's last words were "No! Not YOU!" or something to
>>that effect. Who else could have found him? Also, toss in the additional
>>fact that all of the known cuellindar seals on the Dark One's prison have
>>crumbled into dust...
>
>I personally think that Lanfear was the one who killed Asmodean. It also
>would explain his last words. That would also mean that Moiraine is
>(maybe) out there as well, though it would be my guess she was stilled by
>Lanfear. I doubt the warder bond would function if the Warder's Aes
>Sedai were stilled, since it is undoubtably a product of the One Power.
>Of course, since it seems likely that Nynaeve is going to figure out a
>way to 'cure' stilling, it may be that she is dead if Jordan decided she
>wasn't needed for the storyline any more. Oh well...
Hmmm...personally, I think it was probably Lanfear or Demandred (my bet on
the "Lord of Chaos"). Lanfear, since her turning on Rand, might've not
wanted him to teach him anymore...and Demandred with his hate for Lews
Therin probably didn't want Rand any smarter either.
Chris Scoggins
>: >Definately Lanfear. How many Forsaken are left anyways? Five or six?
>: It could have been anybody who Asmodean knew and who was powerful enough to
>: kill him in short order. That would definitely be a forsaken (or the DO, but
>: i don't believe THAT).
>: It seems to me that one of the forsaken was watching Raevin, but found it
>: wise not to commit himself (or herself).
>: I would not dare to make a guess who it was, but i'm quite shure it was not
>: Lanfear.
>Mogheidian comes to mind. The spider would be doing something like that.
>:) I don't think that Sameal (sp, the dude in llanar [POORLY spelled, the
>name compleatly escapes me. I need to reread these things soon. :)])
It's not Moghedian she is asleep at that moment in Salidar (along with, in
my speculation two Black Sisters (whotraveled to Salidar on the boat with
Nynaeve (the three women that she had a stronng 'kinship' to) Nynaeve
had drugged her in Tel'aran'rhiod.
It would havve to be someone very strong and someone who had a motive.
I couldn't be a male Forsaken because Rand would have felt that immediately
as would have Asmodean (he was suprised) I doubt it was Lanfear I still
am not convinced that she is alive but even if she is she still wants Rand
to defeat the DO with her and he still needs teaching. It possibly could
be Padan Fain, who is getting stronger and stronger and might be capable of
obliterating Asmodean. The Dark One poses an interesing possibility that
I had not considered. With as many seals that are broken he may be strong
enough to strike a blow such as that. I doubt he is strong enough to strike at
Rand directly but might be strong enough and scared enough to use up his
available strength to strike him indirectly.....
I do know that Moraine IS alive for a fact. Egwene dreamt (it is quite odd
that her dreams often become fact =) That Thom reached into a fire and
pulled out a gem that Moraine wore on her forehead. Moraine's letter to Thom
I am sure is telling him partly (and quite indirectly I'm sure) that he needs
to be in a certain place by such and such a time. (she never seems to
leave anything to chance)
Chris
If anyone knows anything in the book that contradicts any of this please let
me know.
--
+ Quick to judge, quick to anger
cs50665.uxa.cso. + Slow to understand.
uiuc.edu + Ignorance and prejudice
+ And fear walk hand in hand.
Don Harlow
>
> Mat spends, by his own feelings, at most two hours in the gate, and
>then IMMEDIATELY feels the rope around his neck. Later we learn that he
>has been there a week.
>
hours. He was _absent_ from here (Randland) for a week.
Nice of the foxes to send him back just when Rand was again available to
administer CPR, wasn't it.
> So I don't think Lanfear will come out 30 years older. Besides, her
>links to the DO would compensate, wouldn't they?
>
(1) Does Lanfear in fact have links to the DO? We know that the male
Forsaken do, but my impression was that those existed mainly to protect
them from the taint -- not a problem in Lanfear's case.
(2) Would Lanfear's links survive the destruction of the gate? There has
been speculation that Lan's loss of his bond with Moiraine was due not to
her death but to the closing of the gate behind her -- would Lanfear
suffer some similar problem?
--
Don Harlow do...@netcom.com
Esperanto League for N.A. el...@netcom.com (800) 828-5944
ftp://ftp.netcom.com/pub/elna/elna.html Esperanto
ftp://ftp.netcom.com/pub/donh/donh.html
Mighty Morgno
: ( 1) Does Lanfear in fact have links to the DO? We know that the male
: protect them from the taint -- not a problem in Lanfear's case.
: ( 2) Would Lanfear's links survive the destruction of the gate?
: There has been speculation that Lan's loss of his bond with
: Moiraine was due not to her death but to the closing of the gate
: behind her -- would Lanfear suffer some similar problem?
I asked about this some time back and the response was that
the links were only to protect against the taint.
Here's what I said:
> Whenever Rand fights one of the male Forsaken, he sees black tendrils
> running off from the Forsaken into the distance. He has found that
> chopping those lines is an effective weapon. However, when he fought
> Lanfear, no such lines were mentioned. Nor did Nynaeve notice them
> when she battled Moghedien, or when she watched Rand fight Rahvin.
>
> So, what are these lines? If they represent the taint on the male half
> of the OP, why doesn't Rand see them from himself?
>
> (TDR, paper, p. 665; TSR p. 877; tEotW, paper, p. 759)
The links must relate to Saidin, as Nynaeve doesn't notice them
when she sees Rahvin.
--
Michael Thompson
Castle Morgno
mor...@netcom.com
Jason Zapman II
: > Whenever Rand fights one of the male Forsaken, he sees black tendrils
: > chopping those lines is an effective weapon. However, when he fought
: > Lanfear, no such lines were mentioned. Nor did Nynaeve notice them
: > when she battled Moghedien, or when she watched Rand fight Rahvin.
: >
: > So, what are these lines? If they represent the taint on the male half
: > of the OP, why doesn't Rand see them from himself?
: >
: > (TDR, paper, p. 665; TSR p. 877; tEotW, paper, p. 759)
: The links must relate to Saidin, as Nynaeve doesn't notice them
: when she sees Rahvin.
hmm. I menchined this to Don H. but didn't lanfear and Baalzamon (sp)
have a conversation like this:
(B) "the Oaths you have mande to me will not be so easely broken as those
to the white tower"
or somesuch. It might have been to one of the BA. but anyway, there seems
to be somekind of link between the DO and the female forsaken. well, any
comments?
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
__ _-==-=_,-. Yet another ASCII
/--`' \_@-@.--< .signature presented
`--'\ \ <___/. BY...
\ \\ " /
>=\\_/`<
____ /= | \_|/
_' `\ _/=== \___/
`___/ //\./=/~\====\ JASON ZAPMAN II
\ // / | ===:
| ._/_,__|_ ==: __
\/ \\ \\`--| / \\
| _ \\: /==:-\ gt5...@prism.gatech.edu
`.__' `-____/ |--|==:
\ \ ===\ :==:`-'
_> \ ===\ /==/ TX Ba 449
/==\ | ===\__/--/
<=== \ / ====\ \\/
_`-- \/ === \/--' ASCII lover, extrodinair'
| \ ==== |
-`------/`--' /
\___-' (though don't send me any,
I have enough as is.)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Russell Marston
: I have mulled over this with another RJ fan here in Edmonton, and we are both
: Shai-Tan HIMSELF killed Asmodean.
: It makes sense: Asmodean's last words were "No! Not YOU!" or something to
: that effect. Who else could have found him? Also, toss in the additional
: fact that all of the known cuellindar seals on the Dark One's prison have
: crumbled into dust...
: It would set up the 6th book nicely...and perhaps make the 6th book the final
: one :'(
: Dave Hauth
I am just curios as to why the subject is Bale killed Asmodean ? Bela was a
horse and i don't even think she knows Asmodean that well ! ;->
Anyway I think that is was someone not using the One Power that killed him.
I think he was stabbed or bashed or hacked or something because either Rand
or the Wise Ones would have felt the use of it !
I have no idea, however who killed him.
Lugnut, Splatter of Baddies.
(but you can call me luggie)
Russell D. Marston ==> mar...@batis.bis.und.ac.za
Dash Wendrzyk
|> Charles Buckley (buc...@refuge.Colorado.EDU) wrote:
|> : In article <CtLx...@acsu.buffalo.edu>,
|> : Nick Sadowy <sad...@acsu.buffalo.edu> wrote:
|> : >
|> : >when is the next book due to be out?
|> : >
|> : The book store I frequent gave me a release date of November.
|>
|> Which means October in publisher-speak.
|>
Unless you live in Florida, in which case it means November :(
dash
Chris Scoggins
>: > Whenever Rand fights one of the male Forsaken, he sees black tendrils
>: > running off from the Forsaken into the distance. He has found that
>: > chopping those lines is an effective weapon. However, when he fought
>: > Lanfear, no such lines were mentioned. Nor did Nynaeve notice them
>: > when she battled Moghedien, or when she watched Rand fight Rahvin.
>: >
>: > So, what are these lines? If they represent the taint on the male half
>: > of the OP, why doesn't Rand see them from himself?
>: >
>: > (TDR, paper, p. 665; TSR p. 877; tEotW, paper, p. 759)
>: The links must relate to Saidin, as Nynaeve doesn't notice them
>: when she sees Rahvin.
It is my understanding that for the male Forsaken they serve a duel
purpose:
1) It allows them access to an untainted OP (Asmodean tells Rand that he
will now also go mad because Rand cut the 'cable' connected to him.
2) It is a tie to the DO binding them in some way. (Rand ponders about
Asmodean being the same man who pledged himself to the DO even though
the binding is broken)
This leads me to believe that the women have a similar 'bond' but have no use
for any direct 'connection' (because their half of the OP is untainted.
Chris
WILLARD,LANE,BRADLEY
>Somehow, I recall that Kai Kunze wrote something like this:
>: >Definately Lanfear. How many Forsaken are left anyways? Five or six?
>
>I believe that the number remaining is six.
>
>: It could have been anybody who Asmodean knew and who was powerful enough to
>: kill him in short order. That would definitely be a forsaken (or the DO, but
>: i don't believe THAT).
>: It seems to me that one of the forsaken was watching Raevin, but found it
>: wise not to commit himself (or herself).
>: I would not dare to make a guess who it was, but i'm quite shure it was not
>: Lanfear.
>
>Mogheidian comes to mind. The spider would be doing something like that.
>:) I don't think that Sameal (sp, the dude in llanar [POORLY spelled, the
>name compleatly escapes me. I need to reread these things soon. :)])
>
Mogh is a good guess, but a wrong one. Mogh is in Salidar awaiting to be
found in her sleep by Nynaeve. My *guesses* are either Demandred (my bet
on the "Lord of Chaos"...not Shai'tain as most of you seem to think) or
Semirhage...both *hate* Lews Therin and would like nothing more than to see
him dead...thus him having a tutor as it were is something they needed to
correct.
Speculation the Shai'tain wasted 'em is silly also. If so, why didn't he
also extinguish Rand while he was at it. He didn't have Callandor with him,
nor one of the Ter'angreal that linked with Sa'angreal in Cairhein. Would've
been rather simple. Believe me, I think when Jordan introduces the DO its
going to be with a little more fanfare than "You! No!".
Pam Korda
>I am just curios as to why the subject is Bale killed Asmodean ? Bela was a
>horse and i don't even think she knows Asmodean that well ! ;->
firstly, the subject isn't anymore, I gave it a new topic that is more
in sync with the actual discussion.
>Anyway I think that is was someone not using the One Power that killed him.
>I think he was stabbed or bashed or hacked or something because either Rand
>or the Wise Ones would have felt the use of it !
Whodunnit? Jain Farstrider did it, in the kitchen, with the lead pipe.
:) Seriously, though, the "FOO couldn't have killed Asmodean with the
OP, because BAR would have felt it" theory isn't really valid.
Remember that there is a distance limitation on how far away one can
sense channelling. Women can sense other women channelling, but only
up to a certain distance away. Men can sense other men AND women, but
the range is even smaller than for woman-woman sensing. Asmodean was
in the kitchen, pretty far away from Rand, and possibly far away from
any lurking WOs or Egwene.
==============================================================================
Pam "RTFFAQ" Korda | To get the jordanFAQ between
Keeper of the Chronicles (FAQueen) | postings, E-mail me, or ftp
ko...@kimbark.uchicago.edu | it from faser.cs.olemiss.edu.
Kai Kunze
>Whodunnit? Jain Farstrider did it, in the kitchen, with the lead pipe.
>:) Seriously, though, the "FOO couldn't have killed Asmodean with the
>OP, because BAR would have felt it" theory isn't really valid.
>Remember that there is a distance limitation on how far away one can
>sense channelling. Women can sense other women channelling, but only
>up to a certain distance away. Men can sense other men AND women, but
>the range is even smaller than for woman-woman sensing. Asmodean was
>in the kitchen, pretty far away from Rand, and possibly far away from
>any lurking WOs or Egwene.
Moreover, we don't know whether someone sensed someone else using the
Power. It's the last szene in the book, and the next one may as well
starting five seconds after the last ended. It would be nasty, ending
a book almost in mid-sentence, but it might be. We shall see.
sl...@cc.usu.edu
I had the impression that it was one of the new Forsaken we're just
getting introduced to, and female, unless I missed my guess. I can't remember
the name, but it's been too long and my reread is still in tSR.
I'll follow up on this when I get there.
Enjoy,
TC
--
Travis L. Clements ------------------
Utah State University --------------- GO AGGIES !!!!!!
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
...the power to cause pain is the only power that matters,
the power to kill and destroy,
because if you can't kill -
then you are always subject to those who can,
and nothing and no one will ever save you.
Orson Scott Card
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Disclaim? Disclaim what?
Arthur Bernard Byrne
Trista Brown <tkb...@vela.acs.oakland.edu> wrote:
>: To interpret this as "it started out as a trilogy" smells like jumping
>: to conclusions, but perhaps I'm just a wee bit picky...
>Do you remember Isaac Asimov and Piers Anthony? I believe that it was
>those two who proved that the 'tri' in 'trilogy' was only a tradition.
>(i.e. 7-8 books in a 'trilogy' series.)
I believe Chalker had some input on that, too.
What's the Xanth Trillogy up to now, 17 books?
AB^2
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
"You can have my encryption algorithm... when you pry my cold dead fingers
from its private key." -John Barlow, "Decrypting the Puzzle Palace"
Edward Liu
Pam Korda <ko...@midway.uchicago.edu> wrote:
>In article <31i7eh$2...@lucy.ee.und.ac.za> mar...@batis.bis.und.ac.za (Russell Marston) writes:
>
>>I am just curios as to why the subject is Bale killed Asmodean ? Bela was a
>>horse and i don't even think she knows Asmodean that well ! ;->
>
>firstly, the subject isn't anymore, I gave it a new topic that is more
>in sync with the actual discussion.
>
>>Anyway I think that is was someone not using the One Power that killed him.
>>I think he was stabbed or bashed or hacked or something because either Rand
>>or the Wise Ones would have felt the use of it !
>
>Whodunnit? Jain Farstrider did it, in the kitchen, with the lead pipe.
>:) Seriously, though, the "FOO couldn't have killed Asmodean with the
>OP, because BAR would have felt it" theory isn't really valid.
>Remember that there is a distance limitation on how far away one can
>sense channelling. Women can sense other women channelling, but only
>up to a certain distance away. Men can sense other men AND women, but
>the range is even smaller than for woman-woman sensing. Asmodean was
>in the kitchen, pretty far away from Rand, and possibly far away from
>any lurking WOs or Egwene.
Here's the counterargument to yours: Rand was at a balcony where he could
see Aviendha, Mat, and Asmodean. Asmodean went to the pantry and although we
don't know how far it is, it didn't seem like he took a long walk. This
distance limitation is most likely far greater than you think. Remember
Elayne and Nynave didn't dare channel when they were in Tanchico and with the
caravans (circus thing). Also, using the OP to kill requires probably a
significant amount of OP-- it's not described as the trace of OP used to
extinguish light or pinch bottoms or whatever. Anyway, why can't the person
who killed Asmodean (if he/she is AS) just use the OP to wipe him out and
immediately Travel away? Think of that?
>
Scott Norton
: [theories on time dilation in foxy gate sliced]
[theories on time passage beyond the doorway also deleted]
: So I don't think Lanfear will come out 30 years older. Besides, her
: links to the DO would compensate, wouldn't they?
No, I don't think so. In fact, if we see her again (and I
believe that we shall), we shall see an entirely changed Lanfear, because
those links will have been cut, as Asmodean's have been, and as
Moiraine's links to Lan were (thus Lan's belief that Moiraine is dead,
and his speeding off to find the Aes Sedai to whom he is now bonded).
Lanfear was already perhaps the most independent of the
Forsaken. Moiraine might well be able to defeat her without the power of
the DO supporting the Daughter of the Night.
Lanfear appears to have gained three main perks from her links
with the DO: her unaging beauty, more power, and the glory of basking
int he DO's presence. Who knows what the denizens on the other side of
the gate might be able to offer her themselves -- very likely at least
the immortal beauty.
Moiraine has already been there, so she might need Lanfear to get
them back out again; or perhaps she will not be able to return, thus
need ing Thom or someone else to rescue her. Lanfear mightleave her
there.
But if she no longer needs the DO, and is forced to cope with the
fact that LTT/Rand prefers at least one other woman to her, Lanfear might
go through some heavy self-examination. I agree that the Lanfear of old
had very little soul, but going through the crucible just *might* change
her, and I think that it would be more interesting if it did.
Wishful thinking, I suppose. Anyone that beautiful must be pure
evil...
Scott Norton sno...@netcom.com
Martin Schafer
>>
>> So, what are these lines? If they represent the taint on the male half
>> of the OP, why doesn't Rand see them from himself?
>>
>
>when she sees Rahvin.
Remember that the DO was initially viewed as a new source of power
that both males and females could draw on. I'm sure that the black
lines are Rand's perception of the Forsaken drawing on the DO's
power. Remember the big black one going to Ishmael that he cut
at the end of TEotW.
Martin
Jason A. Rust
>I do know that Moraine IS alive for a fact.
I don't think so. If Moraine was in any way, shape, or form
alive, the is no way in hell you could have sent Lan away. Yet,
as I recall, he humbly rode off in search of his new AS. No,
if Moraine is ever to return, it will have to be as some sort
of spirit or she'll have to be reincarnated somehow.
-j
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jason A. Rust
jason...@sdrc.com or
ru...@nku.edu
"Lenin probably wouldn't understand. But then, no one around he seems to care what he would think." -- Lynn Ashby's report on Romania
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
sylvan james
Somehow, I recall that shh...@ocvaxa.cc.oberlin.edu wrote something like this:
:Well, I think Lanfear is a good choice for the one who killed Asmodean. In my
: heart of hearts I hope that it turns out to have been Padan Fain. I think it
: would be a little more interesting than Lanfear escaping her supposed death.
hmmm. would As have recognised Fain? He was brought to Shayol Ghul (sp),
and the seals were weakening...
This is possible but not explicitly pointed out by Jordan. Forsaken
seem to have an uncany way of identifying darkfriends, but I don't know
how they do it.
but then some of the others would have been freed, and the DO would have
sent them instead of 100 trolocks after rand and crew in the Two Rivers.
oh well.
Seems to me that Padan Fain was _in_ the two rivers at the time of the
trolock attack. Albiet a little weaker than currently (he had no dagger).
--
He is no fool | Jason Zapman II
Who gives-up what he cannot keep| gt5...@prism.gatech.edu
To gain what he cannot lose. | TX BA449
-- Jim Elliot |
--
-sylvan
Chris Scoggins
>In article <31hias$r...@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>
> cs5...@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Chris Scoggins ) writes:
>>I do know that Moraine IS alive for a fact.
>I don't think so. If Moraine was in any way, shape, or form
>alive, the is no way in hell you could have sent Lan away. Yet,
>as I recall, he humbly rode off in search of his new AS. No,
>if Moraine is ever to return, it will have to be as some sort
>of spirit or she'll have to be reincarnated somehow.
Well, there have ben several lengthy threads on this subject and it is also
addressed in the FAQ, but I'll address it again anyway. The reason I believe
(I guess no one except RJ knows for sure) that Moraine is still alive and can
be pretty sure about it is this: Egwene had a dream where Thom takes a blue
gem out of a fire, and this particular jewel is the same one that Moraine
wears on her head... Of course I could have totally misinterpreted the
sequence but that is half the fun =)
Chris
Rob Crowther
she was cut of from everyone else on this side of the doorway? Lan, may
not feel the bond between them anymore and assumes she is dead. Or,
perhaps, as many have speculated, she was stilled by Lanfear breaking her
bond to Lan.
Either way I believe she will come back. Perhaps in an Obi-Wan kind of
spirit way, but she will be back. The woman has a stubborness like she
was born in the Two Rivers.
--
Robert L. Crowther, II -- Computer Wave Newspaper -- 206-284-5476
John Novak
>Well, there have ben several lengthy threads on this subject and it is also
>addressed in the FAQ, but I'll address it again anyway. The reason I believe
>(I guess no one except RJ knows for sure) that Moraine is still alive and can
>be pretty sure about it is this: Egwene had a dream where Thom takes a blue
>gem out of a fire, and this particular jewel is the same one that Moraine
>wears on her head... Of course I could have totally misinterpreted the
>sequence but that is half the fun =)
<Wail of despair>
I keep hearing this as evidence that Moiraine is alive.
If the idiot Indiana drivers had killed me last weekend, and
someone reached into my friend's car and pulled out my glasses
and calculator (items which, like Moiraine's blue stone, I
_always_ have on my person, or on my nightstand) the response of
my friends would be something like:
"You found his _calculator_? We don't need no dental records,
he's _dead_."
>Chris
>--
> + Quick to judge, quick to anger
> cs50665.uxa.cso. + Slow to understand.
> uiuc.edu + Ignorance and prejudice
> + And fear walk hand in hand.
--
John S. Novak, III Minions wanted
j...@cegt201.bradley.edu See .plan for details
K. Udo Weyer
[munch,munch]
><Wail of despair>
>
>I keep hearing this as evidence that Moiraine is alive.
>If the idiot Indiana drivers had killed me last weekend, and
>someone reached into my friend's car and pulled out my glasses
>and calculator (items which, like Moiraine's blue stone, I
>_always_ have on my person, or on my nightstand) the response of
>my friends would be something like:
>
>"You found his _calculator_? We don't need no dental records,
>he's _dead_."
>
Alternatively though, if you had been presumed dead because you
disappeared from a ship in mid-ocean, then later your calculator
showed up in Indiana, your friends would immediately begin
posting "Have you seen..." signs.
Biff
--
"Most hated by the Dark, for their name was Light"
- Guy Gavriel Kay, _The Fionavar Tapestry_
John J. Palmer
"Uno" Shaw) wrote:
> This is a perfect example of why TAN: is *necessary*.
>
> Yeah, I know. Silly subject. But I couldn't come up with anything
> better.
>
> j...@cegt201.bradley.edu (John Novak) wrote:
> [innocent person annoying John deleted.]
> > I keep hearing this as evidence that Moiraine is alive.
> > If the idiot Indiana drivers had killed me last weekend, and
> > someone reached into my friend's car and pulled out my glasses
> > and calculator (items which, like Moiraine's blue stone, I
> > _always_ have on my person, or on my nightstand) the response of
> > my friends would be something like:
> >
> > "You found his _calculator_? We don't need no dental records,
> > he's _dead_."
>
> Unless you sacrificed yourself to save some young boys:
>
> John (to Matt and Randi[gosh, where did I come up with those?]):
> "Run! Here, take my calculator and go to Craig Levin in Ohio."
>
> (Turns and rushes a big evil guy in black.) "RUUNNNN!!!!!!"
> (Big evil guy tries to draw weapon, but it tackles by Novak.
> He screams, and there is a blue flash, but he still manages
> to yell "RRRRUUUUUUUUUNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!")
>
> Matt and Randi turn and run as if to run all the way to Ohio.
>
> <later, Matt and Randi in Ohio, meeting Craig Levin.>
>
> Rand: "John's dead. I'm sorry. He was our freind too."
> Craig: "Aye, that's his calculator. But I'll believe he's dead
> when I see his body."
>
>
> Yes, I have **way** too much time on my hands. Fortunately for
> the group, not for much longer.
>
> - Joe
Actually I am more concerned for John if the closest friend he can claim
lives in Ohio.
--
John J. Palmer - MDA-SSD M&P pal...@ssdgwy.mdc.com
Metallurgist for International Space Station Alpha
>My file, How to Brew Your First Beer, containing info on equipment,
terms, brewing processes and troubleshooting, is available via FTP
from Homebrew/Docs at sierra.stanford.edu or via WWW on Spencer's
Beer Page at http://guraldi.hgp.med.umich.edu/Beer/
John Novak
>John Novak (j...@cegt201.bradley.edu) wrote:
>: <Wail of despair>
>: I keep hearing this as evidence that Moiraine is alive.
>Give me some evidence she's dead.
This is a rather faulty argument. I said I don't buy this as a
reason that Moiraine is alive. Any evidence I have or do not
have does not determine whether the vision of Moiraine's stone is
evidence that she is alive.
Please tell me why this is constantly interpretted as evidence of
her being alive. I simply do not understand.
Joe Uno Shaw
Yeah, I know. Silly subject. But I couldn't come up with anything
better.
j...@cegt201.bradley.edu (John Novak) wrote:
[innocent person annoying John deleted.]
> I keep hearing this as evidence that Moiraine is alive.
> If the idiot Indiana drivers had killed me last weekend, and
> someone reached into my friend's car and pulled out my glasses
> and calculator (items which, like Moiraine's blue stone, I
> _always_ have on my person, or on my nightstand) the response of
> my friends would be something like:
>
> "You found his _calculator_? We don't need no dental records,
> he's _dead_."
Unless you sacrificed yourself to save some young boys:
John (to Matt and Randi[gosh, where did I come up with those?]):
"Run! Here, take my calculator and go to Craig Levin in Ohio."
(Turns and rushes a big evil guy in black.) "RUUNNNN!!!!!!"
(Big evil guy tries to draw weapon, but it tackles by Novak.
He screams, and there is a blue flash, but he still manages
to yell "RRRRUUUUUUUUUNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!")
Matt and Randi turn and run as if to run all the way to Ohio.
<later, Matt and Randi in Ohio, meeting Craig Levin.>
Rand: "John's dead. I'm sorry. He was our freind too."
Craig: "Aye, that's his calculator. But I'll believe he's dead
when I see his body."
Yes, I have **way** too much time on my hands. Fortunately for
the group, not for much longer.
- Joe
(Thank you for your concern, but I already have plans for getting
a life. It starts on Monday.)
David A Bergman
: <Wail of despair>
: I keep hearing this as evidence that Moiraine is alive.
Give me some evidence she's dead.
I can only think of one thing: Lan's bond. That's it.
: If the idiot Indiana drivers had killed me last weekend, and
: someone reached into my friend's car and pulled out my glasses
: and calculator (items which, like Moiraine's blue stone, I
: _always_ have on my person, or on my nightstand) the response of
: my friends would be something like:
: "You found his _calculator_? We don't need no dental records,
: he's _dead_."
It's symbolism.
Aaron
: --
John Novak
You need something. Get a hobby. Get a girlfriend. Get a _dog_
fer cryin' out loud, but get something.
In <3264pg$8...@solaris.cc.vt.edu> joe...@info1.cc.vt.edu (Joe "Uno" Shaw) writes:
>> "You found his _calculator_? We don't need no dental records,
>> he's _dead_."
>Unless you sacrificed yourself to save some young boys:
>John (to Matt and Randi[gosh, where did I come up with those?]):
>"Run! Here, take my calculator and go to Craig Levin in Ohio."
Joe, I'm touched by all the attention and everything, but really.
Why why I sacrifice myself to save two young boys in the first
place? I'm not the self-sacrificial type at all.
Not only that, but whyinHell would I ask them to carry my
calculator to Craig? Sure, maybe if I had my old soular powered
model, we could wait and clone a copy of me and revive it that
way, but souler powered calculator bit the dust years ago.
>(Turns and rushes a big evil guy in black.) "RUUNNNN!!!!!!"
_I'm_ a big, evil guy in black.
What's your point?
>Craig: "Aye, that's his calculator. But I'll believe he's dead
>when I see his body."
More like, "Calculator? What the fuck am I supposed to do with
this? I'm a history grad..."
Parmly Billings Lib
Mor & Lanf both went through the twisty doorway. They did not necessarily
to the same place! When Rand & Mat & Mor all went through the doorway in
Tear, they did not pass each other, or see each other. The ta'v boys shook
the joint up a bit, but otherwise they could have been in completly
different worlds. It's quite possible that Mor is alive, and safe, and
unstilled, and nowhere near the Forsaken.
--Tshen
Qodaxti Institute, 87th stratum
John Novak
[...]
> I've seen a great many of your posts, and it surprises me that
>you doubt that Moiraine will probably be coming back. Are you perhaps
>simply playing devil's advocate for the fun of it?
No, I really don't think she's coming back. I certainly hope she
doesn't come back, as it would cheapen the whole scene of
sacrifice.
I also, as a general rule, do not accept simple foreshadowing as
evidence, per se. The only thing that makes me believe, even
remotely, that she _might_ come back is her statements to Thom
about seeing him again. But it is my suspicion that she gained
that information from the 'Finn, and it is also my opinion that,
untill it happens, the future is mutable.
Otherwise, Pattern or no Pattern, destiny or not, there'd hardly
be any _point_ to the series, would there?
Scott Norton
: In <326cpj$2...@nntp2.Stanford.EDU> dab...@leland.Stanford.EDU
: (David A Bergman) writes:
: >John Novak (j...@cegt201.bradley.edu) wrote:
: >: <Wail of despair>
: >: I keep hearing this as evidence that Moiraine is alive.
: >Give me some evidence she's dead.
: This is a rather faulty argument. I said I don't buy this as a
: reason that Moiraine is alive. Any evidence I have or do not
: have does not determine whether the vision of Moiraine's stone is
: evidence that she is alive.
: Please tell me why this is constantly interpretted as evidence of
: her being alive. I simply do not understand.
Come now, John. It is evidence because Jordan foreshadows many
things. It is not certain evidence because he leaves himself loopholes,
meaning to leave us unsure.
Lan's bond is evidence that she is dead, but again it has a
loophole, if she was somehow cut off from her bond when the twisted stone
doorframe was melted. Neither one of these pieces of evidence is
incontravertible.
There are, on the other hand, a great many things which hint at
Moiraine having a further presence in the books. The foreshadowing with
the blue jewel is the least of it. The scene with Thom in Tear, after
she has been through the other redstone doorway and knows something of
the future, and she assures Thom absolutely that she will see him again,
is much stronger; the long string of admiring thoughts that Thom has
about her is stronger still.
I've seen a great many of your posts, and it surprises me that
you doubt that Moiraine will probably be coming back. Are you perhaps
simply playing devil's advocate for the fun of it?
Scott Norton sno...@netcom.com
Parmly Billings Lib
: I also, as a general rule, do not accept simple foreshadowing as
: evidence, per se. The only thing that makes me believe, even
: remotely, that she _might_ come back is her statements to Thom
: about seeing him again. But it is my suspicion that she gained
: that information from the 'Finn, and it is also my opinion that,
: untill it happens, the future is mutable.
Tell that to Min. If she sees it, it comes true. Period.
: Otherwise, Pattern or no Pattern, destiny or not, there'd hardly
: be any _point_ to the series, would there?
It's doesn't matter if you're fated to win or lose, it's how you play the
game, IMH(&Cliched)O.
John Novak
>Tell that to Min. If she sees it, it comes true. Period.
Yes, but what did Min see?