[TAN] Your top 5 contemporary fantasy authors?
Hawkmoon269
out there today? As a diversion, I thought we might discuss everyone's top
5 contemporary fantasy authors (contemporary meaning the author has
written/published a book sometime within the past 5 - 10 years) We all know
that Tolkein would be a given on most people's lists, so lets skip the
obvious and think harder about it. Here's my current top 5:
5) A tie between Melanie Rawn and J.V. Jones
Despite her tendency towards soap-opera drama, Rawn always delivers the
goods with complexity and a wide scope. Now I just wish she would hurry up
and finish the Exiles series. J.V. Jones has distinguished herself with the
Book of Words trilogy, and the Sword of Shadows series is looking even more
promising.
4) Terry Brooks
I'm basing this only on the Shannara series, not Brook's other efforts. He
is a master of the simple fantasy story, and has created a world just as
familiar as Jordan's. I just finished Antrax (his latest) and it was just
as satisfying as I had hoped. Brook's efforts are no less enjoyable for
being somewhat less complex than other epic fantasy. Brooks promises an
easy read with familiar characters and a compelling story.
3) Robert Jordan
One has to acknowledge the amazing depth and complexity of the WOT series.
However, it has become clear (to me, anyway) that Jordan is quickly losing
(maybe its already gone) the ability to finish his story with the same
awe-inspiring prose that made the first 3 books of the series so perfect. I
can only hope that Jordan finds his way back to the original path soon.
2) George R.R. Martin
The 'Song of Ice & Fire' series has clearly drawn the line between fantasy
for adults (Martin's books) and fantasy for adolescents (Jordan's books).
Martin has so far fulfilled the promise of everything an epic fantasy story
should be. The third book was the largest and strongest yet. And unlike
Jordan, every single page was necessary and didn't feel like filler. In the
end, true fantasy fans will know that the SoI&F series is the real deal, not
that cheesy kids stuff.
1) Guy Gavriel Kay
If you want to know why he's at the top of the list, go read Tigana, A Song
for Arbonne, The Lions of Al-Rassan, The Fionovar Tapestry or The Sarantine
Mosaic. Kay is simply a legend in the field of high fantasy. Using
historical backdrops, he simply writes the most intelligent, powerful,
moving stories out there today. It doesn't get any better.
So lets hear it...who are your top 5?
Hawkmoon269
Aaron Bergman
"Hawkmoon269" <m...@mycomputer.com> wrote:
> Ok, I know the group is all about Jordan, but is he really the best that's
> out there today?
God no.
My favorites in tiers:
Tier 1:
Patricia McKillip, GG Kay, Philip Pullman, Michael Swanwick, Garth Nix.
Tier 2:
Stephen Brust, Teresa Edgarton, GRR Martin
Tier 3:
Glen Cook, Martha Wells, PC Hodgell, Barbara Hambly, "Robin Hobb", Dave
Duncan, Sean Russell
Tier 4: Many many others.
Aaron
Mark Erikson
"Hawkmoon269" <m...@mycomputer.com> wrote in message
news:wwtD7.33292$IR4.19...@news1.denver1.co.home.com...
> Ok, I know the group is all about Jordan, but is he really the best that's
> out there today? As a diversion, I thought we might discuss everyone's
top
> 5 contemporary fantasy authors (contemporary meaning the author has
> written/published a book sometime within the past 5 - 10 years) We all
know
> that Tolkein would be a given on most people's lists, so lets skip the
> obvious and think harder about it. Here's my current top 5:
<snip>
> So lets hear it...who are your top 5?
Always fun to go over these once or twice a year.
1. Frank Herbert
We've discussed before how it's fairly hard to draw a line between sci-fi
and fantasy, and the Dune series is definately (at least in the early books)
not the most technology-heavy sci-fi.
Anyway, Frank Herbert is probably the most intelligent author I've ever come
across, and his views on the human dynamic are always incredibly
interesting - especially how they grow, change and even contradict
themselves in the later books (not contradict as in Herbert buggered up;
more a case of him developing the idea more and changing his mind). I also
find something incredibly romantic in the desert.
2. George RR Martin.
Despite their size, these are the only books in recent memory (other than
Harry Potter) that really 'grab me and don't let go'. The world seems very
fleshed out despite a distinct lack of descriptive text - probably because
it's so fleshy.
I noticed in the first book that I started each new chapter grudgingly,
because I was busy thinking about the character in the chapter before. By
the time I finished that chapter though, it was that character I cared
about. This trend has continued through three books.
3. Tad Williams
A new addition, but a welcome one. The Memory, Sorrow and Thorn trilogy was
brilliant, if a major slog to begin with. Otherland was not so brilliant,
and perhaps a much bigger slog, but it held my attention better. His new
Shadowmarch work is promising too.
4. Jordan
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
5. Pratchett
So his recent works have been a bit on/off, he has still entertained me
enough over the years to earn a permanent place in my ever fluctuating
top-ten.
I have yet to read any GG Kay. I started Tigana a few years back, but I
started it just before Christmas, and so it was superceded by the books I
got then and eventually found its way back to the library unread.
I noticed that many of the titles suggest Arabic/Persian settings, which is
what I'm interested in right now, can anyone suggest a good one to start on?
-Mark Erikson
Matt Hackell
>
> "Hawkmoon269" <m...@mycomputer.com> wrote in message
> news:wwtD7.33292$IR4.19...@news1.denver1.co.home.com...
> > Ok, I know the group is all about Jordan, but is he really the best that's
> > out there today? As a diversion, I thought we might discuss everyone's
> top
> > 5 contemporary fantasy authors (contemporary meaning the author has
> > written/published a book sometime within the past 5 - 10 years) We all
> know
> > that Tolkein would be a given on most people's lists, so lets skip the
> > obvious and think harder about it. Here's my current top 5:
>
> <snip>
5) Pratchett, Marion Zimmer Bradley (for _Avalon_ at least), and
Mercedes Lackey (probably boosted because I'm in the middle of it)
4) Jordan
Well, I'm here, aren't I?
3) Steven Brust
2) G.G. Kay
These two go beyond genre. They are the best writers of prose I have
read and enjoyed in recent memory. Brust's _Taltos_ series and Kay's
_Lions of al Rassan_ and _Sarantine Mosaic_ are fantastic fantasy
stories, but the authors are this high on my list because of their use
of language.
1) Martin
Most damn engrossing [ongoing] story I've read lately.
> I have yet to read any GG Kay. I started Tigana a few years back, but I
> started it just before Christmas, and so it was superceded by the books I
> got then and eventually found its way back to the library unread.
> I noticed that many of the titles suggest Arabic/Persian settings, which is
> what I'm interested in right now, can anyone suggest a good one to start on?
_Lions of Al-Rassan_
It's set in a world very similar to Reconquista Spain.
--
Matt Hackell
"The wheel is spinning...but the hamster is dead."
Kathie
wrote:
>Ok, I know the group is all about Jordan, but is he really the best that's
>out there today? As a diversion, I thought we might discuss everyone's top
>5 contemporary fantasy authors (contemporary meaning the author has
>written/published a book sometime within the past 5 - 10 years) We all know
>that Tolkein would be a given on most people's lists, so lets skip the
>obvious and think harder about it. Here's my current top 5:
>
<snip Hawkmooon's 5>
My List
1. George R.R. Martin
2. Harlan Ellison
3. Robert Jordan
4. Barbara Hambly
5. Tad Williams
Kathie
Leigh Butler
> Ok, I know the group is all about Jordan, but is he really the best that's
> out there today? As a diversion, I thought we might discuss everyone's top
> 5 contemporary fantasy authors (contemporary meaning the author has
> written/published a book sometime within the past 5 - 10 years) We all know
> that Tolkein would be a given on most people's lists, so lets skip the
> obvious and think harder about it.
Well, y'know, Tolkein didn't publish within the past 5-10 years,
technically...but anyway.
> So lets hear it...who are your top 5?
Going strictly by which authors I've enjoyed the most and not literary
merit as such:
5) Mercedes Lackey
Fluffy fun. And yes, Mike, soulmate horsies. Thbbt.
4) Anne Rice
Granted, the quality has gone steadily down the further you go, but I
maintain that _The Witching Hour_ and the first three vampire books are
and will be classics of the genre.
3) Robert Jordan
I look for something to read one day, someone points out _Eye of the
World_, yadda yadda yadda, I'm in Vegas meeting 40 total strangers.
2) J.K. Rowling
And only 17 more days till the movie opens!
*glee*
1) Guy Gavriel Kay
Who seems to be on just about everyone's list so far.
There are fantasy books out there I consider to be better than any of
these authors have written (except possibly Kay), but these five's books
have given me the kind of pure enjoyment I look for in reading sf.
--
Leigh Butler leigh_...@paramount.com
******************************************************
The opinions expressed above do not necessarily reflect those
of Paramount Pictures or its affiliates.
Mike Kozlowski
Leigh Butler <leigh_...@paramount.com> wrote:
>5) Mercedes Lackey
>
>Fluffy fun. And yes, Mike, soulmate horsies. Thbbt.
You know, it's very disconcerting to see your name brought up in a thread
you really haven't even been reading, and particularly so when it's in a
context which you don't really associate with yourself.
(Have I really ripped on Lackey often enough that it comes so quickly to
mind? Well, then.)
--
Mike Kozlowski
http://www.klio.org/mlk/
Leigh Butler
> In article <MPG.16489831...@news.cis.dfn.de>,
> Leigh Butler <leigh_...@paramount.com> wrote:
>
> >5) Mercedes Lackey
> >
> >Fluffy fun. And yes, Mike, soulmate horsies. Thbbt.
>
> You know, it's very disconcerting to see your name brought up in a thread
> you really haven't even been reading, and particularly so when it's in a
> context which you don't really associate with yourself.
What, reading fantasy?
> (Have I really ripped on Lackey often enough that it comes so quickly to
> mind? Well, then.)
Oh, we had a debate about it once or twice, that's all, but your
"soulmate horsies" comment stuck in my head. I just like to poke at you
for the same reason I poke at Thor anytime I bring up Tori Amos - it's a
preemptive strike kinda thing.
Mike Kozlowski
Leigh Butler <leigh_...@paramount.com> wrote:
>On 30 Oct 2001 19:03:27 GMT, Mike Kozlowski <m...@klio.org> wrote:
>> Leigh Butler <leigh_...@paramount.com> wrote:
>>
>> >5) Mercedes Lackey
>> >Fluffy fun. And yes, Mike, soulmate horsies. Thbbt.
>>
>> You know, it's very disconcerting to see your name brought up in a thread
>> you really haven't even been reading, and particularly so when it's in a
>> context which you don't really associate with yourself.
>
>What, reading fantasy?
Mocking Lackey, as you well know.
Although, really, "reading fantasy" is also perilously close, since I'm in
another one of my periodic downtimes when it comes to reading. I sprinted
through the first two books of Doris Egan's decent-but-not-good Ivory
trilogy some time back during one of my manic bursts of reading, but
haven't gotten more than a few pages into the third one since then.
>Oh, we had a debate about it once or twice, that's all, but your
>"soulmate horsies" comment stuck in my head. I just like to poke at you
>for the same reason I poke at Thor anytime I bring up Tori Amos - it's a
>preemptive strike kinda thing.
Well, okay. Just an unexpected context is all -- I'm used to my name
coming up randomly when people talking about shelving arrangements,
killfiles, mustelids, and Kate Nepveu's status as a baby-killing Nazi;
but I hadn't expected it here.
(Heh. Now Kate gets to experience that "How'd my name get in this
thread?" feeling.)
Michael Hoye
Leigh Butler <leigh_...@paramount.com> wrote:
>
>1) Guy Gavriel Kay
>Who seems to be on just about everyone's list so far.
Not that list, but he's definitely on my list.
--
Mike Hoye
Johan Gustafsson
[what the subject line says]
> Going strictly by which authors I've enjoyed the most and not literary
> merit as such:
>
> 5) Mercedes Lackey
> 4) Anne Rice
> 3) Robert Jordan
> 2) J.K. Rowling
>
> And only 17 more days till the movie opens!
>
> *glee*
Can I *glee* with you? (Opens in Sweden on my birthday, it does. Talk
about timing.)
> 1) Guy Gavriel Kay
One of these days I'm going to finish "The Summer Tree"... I dunno, I
just can't reconcile Kay's rep with that book.
Here's my current list (meaning it most likely won't be the same
tomorrow):
5) Katharine Kerr - I really enjoyed the first four Deverry books.
4) Terry Pratchett - death, dwarves and Dibbler
3) Robert Jordan - bigass, epic fun.
2) Maria Gripe - borderline fantasy, excellent writer.
1) Astrid Lindgren - yes, I know she misses the 10 year mark. Sue me. Her
three "proper" fantasy books still give me as much enjoyment as they did
when I was a wee toddler. I taught myself how to read just so I didn't
have to wait for my parents to read her books to me. That's how much I
like them.
And finally, so you see where I'm coming from, here are some authors I
have not yet (but can't wait to) read: Brust, Bujold, Dunett, Steven
Erikson, Gene Wolfe.
--
Johan Gustafsson *** j...@e-bostad.net
Are you a bad enough dude to rescue the President?
Leigh Butler
wrote:
Laundry list?
Grocery list?
To read list?
Contract killer list?
"I'm a strange boy who doesn't like Kay" list?
Leigh Butler
> In article <MPG.16489d542...@news.cis.dfn.de>,
> Leigh Butler <leigh_...@paramount.com> wrote:
> >On 30 Oct 2001 19:03:27 GMT, Mike Kozlowski <m...@klio.org> wrote:
> >> Leigh Butler <leigh_...@paramount.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >5) Mercedes Lackey
> >> >Fluffy fun. And yes, Mike, soulmate horsies. Thbbt.
> >>
> >> You know, it's very disconcerting to see your name brought up in a thread
> >> you really haven't even been reading, and particularly so when it's in a
> >> context which you don't really associate with yourself.
> >
> >What, reading fantasy?
>
> Mocking Lackey, as you well know.
Moi?
> Although, really, "reading fantasy" is also perilously close, since I'm in
> another one of my periodic downtimes when it comes to reading. I sprinted
> through the first two books of Doris Egan's decent-but-not-good Ivory
> trilogy some time back during one of my manic bursts of reading, but
> haven't gotten more than a few pages into the third one since then.
Same thing happened to me with Feist and Wurt's _Empire_ trilogy a while
back. Read the first two in a flash, picked up the third, read like a
chapter, put it down and just never picked it up again.
As far as downtimes go, I'm in the strange and rather exhilarating
position at the moment of being more interested in what I'm writing than
in what other people are writing. For now, anyway.
> >Oh, we had a debate about it once or twice, that's all, but your
> >"soulmate horsies" comment stuck in my head. I just like to poke at you
> >for the same reason I poke at Thor anytime I bring up Tori Amos - it's a
> >preemptive strike kinda thing.
>
> Well, okay. Just an unexpected context is all -- I'm used to my name
> coming up randomly when people talking about shelving arrangements,
> killfiles, mustelids, and Kate Nepveu's status as a baby-killing Nazi;
> but I hadn't expected it here.
I live to disconcert.
> (Heh. Now Kate gets to experience that "How'd my name get in this
> thread?" feeling.)
Is that like that not-so-fresh feeling?
Mike Kozlowski
Leigh Butler <leigh_...@paramount.com> wrote:
>On 30 Oct 2001 19:29:51 GMT, Mike Kozlowski <m...@klio.org> wrote:
>> Although, really, "reading fantasy" is also perilously close, since I'm in
>> another one of my periodic downtimes when it comes to reading. I sprinted
>> through the first two books of Doris Egan's decent-but-not-good Ivory
>> trilogy some time back during one of my manic bursts of reading, but
>> haven't gotten more than a few pages into the third one since then.
>
>Same thing happened to me with Feist and Wurt's _Empire_ trilogy a while
>back. Read the first two in a flash, picked up the third, read like a
>chapter, put it down and just never picked it up again.
Oh, I'll pick it up again. I do this all the time -- I go on a reading
streak, where I read like three books a week for weeks in a row, then I
just burn out entirely and do no reading at all for a long time.
I just ordered _The Last Hero_, though, so that should rekindle the
reading spark.
>As far as downtimes go, I'm in the strange and rather exhilarating
>position at the moment of being more interested in what I'm writing than
>in what other people are writing. For now, anyway.
Hey, me too! In fact, I'm only reading your post the minimum amount
necessary to allow me to write a response to it.
Leigh Butler
wrote:
> Leigh Butler <leigh_...@paramount.com> preached to the perverted...
> > 2) J.K. Rowling
> >
> > And only 17 more days till the movie opens!
> >
> > *glee*
>
> Can I *glee* with you? (Opens in Sweden on my birthday, it does. Talk
> about timing.)
You may. It is really not normal how much I am anticipating this movie.
> > 1) Guy Gavriel Kay
>
> One of these days I'm going to finish "The Summer Tree"... I dunno, I
> just can't reconcile Kay's rep with that book.
The Fionavar Tapestry is markedly different from his other books. If you
haven't read anything by him, I'd suggest starting with _Tigana_
instead. Fabulous book.
(I personally liked the Fionavar books, but I can understand why some
wouldn't, especially if they went in expecting something more like his
stand-alone novels.)
> Here's my current list (meaning it most likely won't be the same
> tomorrow):
>
> 5) Katharine Kerr - I really enjoyed the first four Deverry books.
I liked the Deverry series. I wouldn't rate her as one of my favorites,
though - the series, while very enjoyable, just didn't make a great
enough impression on me for that.
> 4) Terry Pratchett - death, dwarves and Dibbler
I'm sure he will be on my list once I actually read something of his
besides _Small Gods_ (which I enjoyed immensely). In a similar vein,
Douglas Adams would have made the list if I weren't confining it to
fantasy only.
I'm also now wondering if I shouldn't have booted Lackey in favor of
Neil Gaiman. I think it's kind of a tossup, there. I read Lackey in
junior high/high school (perfect timing, really, for what they were),
but Neil has been giving me great enjoyment over the past year or so.
Maggie
<snip>
> 4) Anne Rice
>
> Granted, the quality has gone steadily down the further you go, but I
> maintain that _The Witching Hour_ and the first three vampire books are
> and will be classics of the genre.
Sadly true. I've stopped buying her books. It's a real shame she
wasn't able to keep up the Mayfair saga after the brilliance of the
first installment. The rest were just...bad.
>
> 3) Robert Jordan
>
> I look for something to read one day, someone points out _Eye of the
> World_, yadda yadda yadda, I'm in Vegas meeting 40 total strangers.
*grin*
> 2) J.K. Rowling
>
> And only 17 more days till the movie opens!
>
> *glee*
We have this circled in red on the calendar. In addition, Alex is Harry
Potter for Halloween this year, and after some fuss, argument and
negotiation, I'm The Sorting Hat.
(I wanted to be Lily Potter, but Alex took issue with her handicap.)
--
Maggie UIN 10248195 http://www.darkfriends.net
"Shadow found himself thinking about a garage in San Clemente with box
after box of rare, strange and beautiful books in it rotting away, all
of them browning and wilting and being eaten by mold and insects in the
darkness, waiting for someone who would never come to set them free."
- Neil Gaiman, cut from _American Gods_
scifantasy
>We have this circled in red on the calendar. In addition, Alex is Harry
>Potter for Halloween this year, and after some fuss, argument and
>negotiation, I'm The Sorting Hat.
A friend of mine (now a freshman in college) was Harry Potter for
Senior Absurdity Day.
It worked, for the most part. The fact that he's from Bangladesh made
it an odd fit, tho.
>(I wanted to be Lily Potter, but Alex took issue with her handicap.)
Besides being dead?
--
scifantasy
"RTF*"
scifantasy
>It is really not normal how much I am anticipating this movie.
You'd be surprised, Leigh.
--
scifantasy
"RTF*"
Matt Lea Harrison
news:wwtD7.33292$IR4.19...@news1.denver1.co.home.com...
that's
> out there today? As a diversion, I thought we might discuss
everyone's top
> 5 contemporary fantasy authors (contemporary meaning the author has
> written/published a book sometime within the past 5 - 10 years) We
all know
> that Tolkein would be a given on most people's lists, so lets skip
the
I don't really read enough fantasy anymore to justify a top 5 (I've
moved more over to science fiction - more single books & less
patience-trying series[es?]), but I'd say Jordan is the best I would
still read. Possibly equalled by Tad Williams, but no-one else.
Of course, I haven't read 'A Song of Ice and Fire' which everyone
seems to rave about. But then I _won't_ read it until the last book
in the series comes out.
--
M.xx
- .sigWAR!
Leigh Butler
> In article <MPG.1648b7fa6...@news.cis.dfn.de>,
> Leigh Butler <leigh_...@paramount.com> wrote:
<Mike's in reading downtime>
> >As far as downtimes go, I'm in the strange and rather exhilarating
> >position at the moment of being more interested in what I'm writing than
> >in what other people are writing. For now, anyway.
>
> Hey, me too! In fact, I'm only reading your post the minimum amount
> necessary to allow me to write a response to it.
*thwap*
(Same here!)
Dean Chamberlain
m...@mycomputer.com says...
> Ok, I know the group is all about Jordan, but is he really the best that's
> out there today? As a diversion, I thought we might discuss everyone's top
> 5 contemporary fantasy authors (contemporary meaning the author has
> written/published a book sometime within the past 5 - 10 years) We all know
> that Tolkein would be a given on most people's lists, so lets skip the
> obvious and think harder about it. Here's my current top 5:
Not entirely sure on the order, it varies day to day, whereas the actaul
makeup of the 5 would vary month to month :
1. Stephen Erikson : I've raved about him before, and will refrain from
doing so again. I've got the 6th of December marked with a big smile.
2. Terry Pratchett : good fun, good stories.
3. Neil Gaiman : Probably an appropriate time to thank this group for
getting me onto him. I'd read all of the Sandman stuff, but apart from
_Good Omens_ didn't realise he'd even written "normal" novels. Just
dissappointed that I can't find the illustrated version of _Stardust_
that has been talked about here. Thanks all.
4.GRR Martin. I just love the way this guy writes, with no regard for the
"normal" rules of fantasy fiction.
5.Glen Cook. Not sure exactly what it is, but something in the Black
Company series agrees with me.
Frank van Schie
Leigh Butler wrote:
>
> Going strictly by which authors I've enjoyed the most and not literary
> merit as such:
>
> 5) Mercedes Lackey
Hold it. Hold it *right there*.
I had never heard of this woman until Jeff Huo mentioned Heather
Alexander's music (she has done songs based on Valdamar, and they're
actually pretty good).
Then a colleague brings a book to work by her (a Valdamar book), and
says he's a big fan, easy read, etc.
And now you. All in the space of several weeks to a month. Damn these
conspiracies! ;-)
> Fluffy fun. And yes, Mike, soulmate horsies. Thbbt.
Funny, that's how I reacted when I was 'reproached' for calling Yfandes
a horse.
> 3) Robert Jordan
>
> I look for something to read one day, someone points out _Eye of the
> World_, yadda yadda yadda, I'm in Vegas meeting 40 total strangers.
Judging from the rest of the list, are we to believe you either haven't
read George R.R. Martin's work, or that you didn't like it as much as
Jordan?
For shame.
> 2) J.K. Rowling
>
> And only 17 more days till the movie opens!
>
> *glee*
The Harry Potter movie? I'm currently waiting for Lord of the Rings.
Funny, how several books are getting films all at the same time. There's
that global conspiracy thing again (just like The Matrix, Thirteenth
Floor and eXistenZ all happening in the same season).
> 1) Guy Gavriel Kay
>
> Who seems to be on just about everyone's list so far.
Mine to, but it's a to-do list. Or rather a being-done list. Sarantine
Mosaic, so far, is nice :-)
> There are fantasy books out there I consider to be better than any of
> these authors have written (except possibly Kay), but these five's books
> have given me the kind of pure enjoyment I look for in reading sf.
Anything jump to mind as the epitomy of reading fun? Always in the
market for recommendations from people with taste ;-)
--
Frank
Kenneth G. Cavness
scifantasy <scif...@ANTI-SPAMoptonline.net> wrote...
> Leigh Butler e-mused:
>
> >It is really not normal how much I am anticipating this movie.
>
> You'd be surprised, Leigh.
Let's see. Contemporary fantasy.
5. Dave Duncan
Fun books, interesting twists, nice worlds.
4. C.S. Friedman
Not quite sci-fi, not quite fantasy... but still fantastic.
3. Paula Volsky
If for _Illusion_ alone.
2. Robert Jordan
Fluffy, fun books. Really deep plots. Some of you may have
heard of him before.
1. Guy Gavriel Kay
Was anybody particularly surprised?
--
Kenneth G. Cavness
http://stargoat.dynip.com/ <-- Site down for now.
ICQ: 3504847, AIM: kcavness2, Email: kcav...@proxicom.com
Frank van Schie
Dean Chamberlain wrote:
>
> Not entirely sure on the order, it varies day to day, whereas the actaul
> makeup of the 5 would vary month to month :
>
> 1. Stephen Erikson : I've raved about him before, and will refrain from
> doing so again. I've got the 6th of December marked with a big smile.
This would be the author of Malazan Empire books? Tried to order one of
his, but my online bookstore of choice (Proxis) can't deliver. :-(
> 4.GRR Martin. I just love the way this guy writes, with no regard for the
> "normal" rules of fantasy fiction.
Or, indeed, fiction. One does not generally kill off ones heroes. :-)
> 5.Glen Cook. Not sure exactly what it is, but something in the Black
> Company series agrees with me.
I should really go give this a try. Amazon's excellent new tool,
allowing you to preview a number of pages, tells me that method of
writing used is agreeable.
--
Frank
Mike Kozlowski
Kenneth G. Cavness <kcav...@proxicom.com> wrote:
>3. Paula Volsky
>If for _Illusion_ alone.
I like Illusion quite a bit, but putting an author that high up for one
book is really quite remarkable.
Hmm. Perhaps a more quantitative approach is called for. (Or, at any
rate, perhaps a more quantitative approach will give a different -- and
therefore interesting -- result from my normal list o' five.) The
following list is my favorite authors, as determined by the number of
"Excellent" books they've written (that I've read). I've gone down to
three books, figuring that anyone who's written fewer than three excellent
books is statistical noise.
Author Count
-----------------------------
Fantasy:
Pratchett, Terry 21
Duncan, Dave 17
Gaiman, Neil 15
Brust, Steven 13
Zelazny, Roger 10
Kay, Guy Gavriel 8
Jordan, Robert 6
Le Guin, Ursula K. 5
McCaffrey, Anne 5
May, Julian 4
Feist, Raymond E. &
Wurts, Janny 3
Hobb, Robin 3
Hughart, Barry 3
Martin, George R.R. 3
Williams, Tad 3
Non-Fantasy:
Brin, David 10
Bujold, Lois McMaster 9
Asimov, Isaac 7
Adams, Douglas 5
Busiek, Kurt 5
Wodehouse, P.G. 5
O'Rourke, P.J. 4
Sedaris, David 4
Adams, Scott 3
Benford, Gregory 3
Egan, Greg 3
Krugman, Paul 3
Moore, Alan 3
Nielsen Hayden,
Patrick, ed. 3
Stephenson, Neal 3
Vinge, Vernor 3
That is kind of interesting, actually. My top five fantasists are pretty
close to what I would have said outright, except that I would have pushed
Kay ahead of Zelazny (but since Kay's still alive and Zelazny's not,
there's opportunity for overtaking there -- then again, there's tons of
Zelazny's backlist that I haven't read yet), and I'd've been tempted to
find a spot for Hughart.
Mike Kozlowski
>Hmm. Perhaps a more quantitative approach is called for. (Or, at any
>rate, perhaps a more quantitative approach will give a different -- and
>therefore interesting -- result from my normal list o' five.) The
>following list is my favorite authors, as determined by the number of
>"Excellent" books they've written (that I've read). I've gone down to
>three books, figuring that anyone who's written fewer than three excellent
>books is statistical noise.
It occurs to me, belatedly, that instead of merely figuring out who's got
the most excellent novels, a more straightforward approach is just to
figure out who's got the best "GPA" by averaging up the ratings of the
books I've read (and filtering so that I've read at least two books by the
author, to prevent people like Kij Johnson -- whose one book was excellent
-- from getting onto the list prematurely).
So here's the list of the writers who have a greater than 3.5 "GPA". I'm
lazy, so I'm not going to fix the formatting or separate out fantasy and
non/fantasy this time, but it should be pretty clear. Very similar
results as before, the only difference being that relatively non-prolific
authors like Kay, Vinge, and Stephenson get pushed further up the list,
while Pratchett (who's written a few merely good books) gets bumped down
from his lofty perch.
Author Avg
Adams, Scott 4
Feist, Raymond E. & Wurts, Janny 4
Hobb, Robin 4
Hughart, Barry 4
Kay, Guy Gavriel 4
Krugman, Paul 4
Martin, George R.R. 4
Nielsen Hayden, Patrick, ed. 4
Sedaris, David 4
Stephenson, Neal 4
Vinge, Vernor 4
Wodehouse, P.G. 4
Zelazny, Roger 4
Brust, Steven 3.92857142857143
Pratchett, Terry 3.83333333333333
May, Julian 3.8
Duncan, Dave 3.77272727272727
Egan, Greg 3.75
Gaiman, Neil 3.75
Williams, Tad 3.75
Brin, David 3.71428571428571
Busiek, Kurt 3.66666666666667
Jordan, Robert 3.66666666666667
Powers, Tim 3.66666666666667
Simmons, Dan 3.66666666666667
Wolfe, Gene 3.66666666666667
Bujold, Lois McMaster 3.64285714285714
Le Guin, Ursula K. 3.57142857142857
Michael Hoye
Leigh Butler <leigh_...@paramount.com> wrote:
>On 30 Oct 2001 19:30:23 GMT, Michael Hoye <mh...@prince.carleton.ca>
>wrote:
[ Guy Gavriel Kay ]
>> >Who seems to be on just about everyone's list so far.
>>
>> Not that list, but he's definitely on my list.
>
>Laundry list?
>Grocery list?
>To read list?
>Contract killer list?
"Come the revolution, the following people need to be lined up
against a wall."
>"I'm a strange boy who doesn't like Kay" list?
Jesus, people, what the hell is wrong with all of you? We all like
a lot of the same styles and authors, we've all got reasonably high
standards, even if tastes vary here and there, and I've picked up a
number of authors on this group's collective recommendations and
enjoyed them immensely, so what the fuck is all this love for
the Fionavar Tapestry about?
I'm the first to admit that I haven't gone out of my way to find a
copy of Tigana, supposedly a much stronger work, but for crying out
loud, the characters in Fionavar are painfully cookie-cuttered, the
disclaimers that come with the magic items pretty much give away the
ending of the whole goddamn series, and it's _missing a fourth book_.
You know, that bit where they go back home and have to explain the
unusual circumstances of their disappearances, the fact that two of
them, if I recall, are just plain old _gone_, and we're nevertheless
supposed to think that they all live happily ever after? If Jordan
ends his series a fraction as poorly as that one ended, the gnashing
of teeth will be audible from orbit, but for some reason unclear to
me, Fionavar gets a pass?
"Wow, we've got a knife here that kicks whoever uses it without
love in their heart into oblivion forever. Gosh, wouldn't it be
great if we could get the bad guy to stab somebody with that thing?
"Sure, boss, but who's gonna take the hit for everyone?"
"Hmm."
(series progresses)
"Hi, I'm the bad guy's son. My dad never talks to me. I'm going
to go see him and try to work things out. "
"Here, kid. Bring this." (hands kid the knife.)
(Kid leaves)
"What do we do now?"
"Just wait. I think that should do the trick."
(dramatic final scene)
"Hi, Dad."
"Hi, son. I'm eeeevil, I don't care about you. I'm going to kill you."
"Here, use this. "
"Thanks, son." (stab!) "Yeargg!"
(is sucked into void.)
"I have done a noble thing. Maybe I'm not as bad as my dad." (dies.)
(cut to our heroes.)
"Well, that's it. Those of us who are still alive and willing to go
back are going to go back and explain everything to our friends,
family and the justifiably curious police."
(Exeunt. All live happily ever after.)
That's what I remember about the whole damn series. That's it. I
remember book one being interestingish, book two being a plod and
book three being the worst train wreck of an ending I'd read in
years. I can't believe that he keeps showing up on best author
lists. as often as he does. Are the words "Guy Gavriel Kay" some
bizzare freemason shorthand for "let's all go out back, smoke
a wheelbarrow full of crack and try our hands at literary criticism?"
Was I just not informed about that, or did I not get the
secret handshake right when the crack pipes were being handed
around?
Christ, again.
--
Mike Hoye
Mike Kozlowski
Michael Hoye <mh...@prince.carleton.ca> wrote:
>Jesus, people, what the hell is wrong with all of you? We all like
>a lot of the same styles and authors, we've all got reasonably high
>standards, even if tastes vary here and there, and I've picked up a
>number of authors on this group's collective recommendations and
>enjoyed them immensely, so what the fuck is all this love for
>the Fionavar Tapestry about?
Howsabout the fact that you've been told a trillion times that
everything else Kay's written is different from, and better than,
Fionavar? I know damn well why you don't like Fionavar, and that doesn't
have a thing to do with why you wouldn't like Kay in general.
Go pick up _Sailing to Sarantium_ and _Lord of Emperors_. You'll like
them, I promise. The stuff you don't like about Fionavar isn't there, the
stuff I do like is there, and lots of other really great stuff is there
beside.
Really. I mean it. Quit your damn bitching, and just go do it already.
Amy Gray
> In article <9rnbta$nrk$1...@news.panix.com>, Mike Kozlowski <m...@klio.org> wrote:
>
> >Hmm. Perhaps a more quantitative approach is called for. (Or, at any
> >rate, perhaps a more quantitative approach will give a different -- and
> >therefore interesting -- result from my normal list o' five.) The
> >following list is my favorite authors, as determined by the number of
> >"Excellent" books they've written (that I've read). I've gone down to
> >three books, figuring that anyone who's written fewer than three excellent
> >books is statistical noise.
>
> It occurs to me, belatedly, that instead of merely figuring out who's got
> the most excellent novels, a more straightforward approach is just to
> figure out who's got the best "GPA" by averaging up the ratings of the
> books I've read (and filtering so that I've read at least two books by the
> author, to prevent people like Kij Johnson -- whose one book was excellent
> -- from getting onto the list prematurely).
Sheesh, weasel-boy. You have way too much time on your hands. Next
thing you know, you'll be re-shelving your books by GPA, rather than
publisher.
--
Amy Gray
ag...@kumc.edu
UIN: 91047322
Mike Kozlowski
Amy Gray <ag...@kumc.edu> wrote:
>In article <9rncdj$nrk$2...@news.panix.com>, m...@klio.org uttered...
>> It occurs to me, belatedly, that instead of merely figuring out who's got
>> the most excellent novels, a more straightforward approach is just to
>> figure out who's got the best "GPA" by averaging up the ratings of the
>> books I've read (and filtering so that I've read at least two books by the
>> author, to prevent people like Kij Johnson -- whose one book was excellent
>> -- from getting onto the list prematurely).
>
>Sheesh, weasel-boy. You have way too much time on your hands.
Rather, a database, a working knowledge of SQL... and way too much time on
my hands. Okay, point granted. But hey, if I can't use my database for
statistical analysis, what can I use it for?
(Weird: I actually wrote out "SQL" as "sequel" the first time. I'm not
sure that typing is even a conscious process for me any more; my fingers
seem to be taking their directive from the reflex section of the brain.)
Dean Chamberlain
says...
>
>
> Dean Chamberlain wrote:
> >
> > Not entirely sure on the order, it varies day to day, whereas the actaul
> > makeup of the 5 would vary month to month :
> >
> > 1. Stephen Erikson : I've raved about him before, and will refrain from
> > doing so again. I've got the 6th of December marked with a big smile.
>
> This would be the author of Malazan Empire books? Tried to order one of
> his, but my online bookstore of choice (Proxis) can't deliver. :-(
I'm really perplexed why our backward little country gets Erikson's
books, and yet other, much larger countries or groups of countries,
don't. Thankful, but perplexed.
Frank van Schie
Mike Kozlowski wrote:
>
> (Weird: I actually wrote out "SQL" as "sequel" the first time. I'm not
> sure that typing is even a conscious process for me any more;
I doubt it is for almost anyone who uses computers very regularly.
That's the reason I can look away and watch TV, while typing this, with
minimal typo'ing. As long as I can keep the sentence in my mind, I can
get it on here blind (both keyboard and monitor are not in my field of
view). I can even correct most typo's I make straight away, unless my
fingers get all mis-arranged on the keyboard.
Of course, typing words I never really intended to type happens quite a
lot too :-)
> my fingers
> seem to be taking their directive from the reflex section of the brain.)
Which is, biologically speaking, amazing in and of itself, if I remember
correctly how reflexes work.
--
Frank
Zeynep Dilli / 'Morwen'
> Leigh Butler e-mused:
>
> >It is really not normal how much I am anticipating this movie.
>
> You'd be surprised, Leigh.
In this crowd, I don't know why she should be surprised, really.
Of course, I don't know why she considers her expectation level
"not normal", either...
--
Zeynep Dilli
GE/MU/S/L d--(+) s: a23 C++ US+ P L+>++ E-- W++>$ N++ K++ w>-- !O M- V?
PS+ PE(-) Y+ !PGP t- !5 !X R+ tv-- b+++>++++ DI+ D G e++$>+++ h* x?
Frank van Schie
Dean Chamberlain wrote:
>
> > This would be the author of Malazan Empire books? Tried to order one of
> > his, but my online bookstore of choice (Proxis) can't deliver. :-(
>
> I'm really perplexed why our backward little country gets Erikson's
> books,
You're not backwards, you're upside down.
> and yet other, much larger countries or groups of countries,
> don't. Thankful, but perplexed.
The Netherlands? Large? Heh. We're one of the smallest countries in
Europe (though we have over 16 million inhabitants, which isn't terribly
far behind Australia, if my spies are accurate).
And I think, in this case, the blame lies with Proxis. They are cheap,
and they are fast when they actually have a book, but they sell an awful
lot of books which they can't deliver. I think I've gotten (and paid
for) about 10-25% of books I've ordered there. I don't order much, or
often, but gah. But they're cheap, so I'll continue to waste time there.
--
Frank
Adam Maresch
not like me.
My choices are
Kate Elliot- Crown of Stars.
RJ -for obvious reasons.
Glen Cook Black Company -Dark, Deep- keeps me hooked Still Naively waiting
for the heavenly finale someday-Croaker deserves it- Make him omnipotent now
so he'll stop getting old
L.E. Modessitt -Recluce Saga- Nobody here has mentioned him before, What do
you guys think of him(His name is worse than a kids spelling bee nightmare
when confronted with the word Mississippi. I can never speel his name)
Terry Brooks- I don't know why, There are a buttload of Shannara's- figured
I would be tired of it, but no.
No order implied- it'll be different 5 minutes from now.
Tangentially. I always like the Black Cauldron " series. It was my first
series I followed as a kid. Sentimental value maybe. I could never get
into the Lord of Rings, Does anybody knows why? I seem to be the ONLY one.
I also don' do Stephen King- I even tried it in Spanish- no different.
As some may surmise, tired old plots don't bother me if I like the writing
style.
Adam Maresch
Amy Gray
lately. I'm sure Freud would have a heyday with the slips of my
fingers.
Amy Gray
uttered...
>
>
> Mike Kozlowski wrote:
> > my fingers
> > seem to be taking their directive from the reflex section of the brain.)
>
> Which is, biologically speaking, amazing in and of itself, if I remember
> correctly how reflexes work.
Heh. No tolerance for figures of speech among this crowd.
Matt Hackell
>
>
> Leigh Butler wrote:
> >
> > Going strictly by which authors I've enjoyed the most and not literary
> > merit as such:
> >
> > 5) Mercedes Lackey
>
> Hold it. Hold it *right there*.
>
> I had never heard of this woman until Jeff Huo mentioned Heather
> Alexander's music (she has done songs based on Valdamar, and they're
> actually pretty good).
>
> Then a colleague brings a book to work by her (a Valdamar book), and
> says he's a big fan, easy read, etc.
>
> And now you. All in the space of several weeks to a month. Damn these
> conspiracies! ;-)
I would have read it in high school, but I could never figure out where
to start. Finally, I decided to go in publication order, figuring I was
least likely to get confused that way. That was this past spring-and-
summer, beginning when I found _Arrows_ at a used-bookstore.
> > Fluffy fun. And yes, Mike, soulmate horsies. Thbbt.
Fluffy fun indeed. But I needed something for that, now that I've
finished Pern, can't possibly re-read Eddings, and have seizures when I
get within 10 inches of the latest Piers Anthony expectoration (or
ejaculation).
Lackey's good for that.
> > 3) Robert Jordan
> >
> > I look for something to read one day, someone points out _Eye of the
> > World_, yadda yadda yadda, I'm in Vegas meeting 40 total strangers.
>
> Judging from the rest of the list, are we to believe you either haven't
> read George R.R. Martin's work, or that you didn't like it as much as
> Jordan?
>
> For shame.
Now, now. Nobody's perfect. And if you don't like mourning, Martin's a
tough read.
> > 2) J.K. Rowling
> >
> > And only 17 more days till the movie opens!
> >
> > *glee*
>
> The Harry Potter movie? I'm currently waiting for Lord of the Rings.
> Funny, how several books are getting films all at the same time. There's
> that global conspiracy thing again (just like The Matrix, Thirteenth
> Floor and eXistenZ all happening in the same season).
::sigh:: It'd better be good. I expect it will, from the cast, but I
still think they should have waited 20 years.
> > 1) Guy Gavriel Kay
No more needs be said.
--
Matt Hackell
"The wheel is spinning...but the hamster is dead."
Maggie
No, that's the handicap he objected to.
--
Maggie - a pretty good short, dark-haired dead woman. Every morning.
Trent Goulding
>>> >5) Mercedes Lackey
>>> >Fluffy fun. And yes, Mike, soulmate horsies. Thbbt.
Never read a single book by Lackey. If there was just one of her
books that a fan who wanted to see her shown in her best light might
put forward, what book might that be?
Moving on....
> I sprinted
>through the first two books of Doris Egan's decent-but-not-good Ivory
>trilogy some time back during one of my manic bursts of reading, but
>haven't gotten more than a few pages into the third one since then.
You too, huh? I read the first one several weeks ago, and my
reaction was pretty much a resounding "enh". I haven't been
motivated enough to start the second yet. How is it quality-wise in
relation to the first?
>(Heh. Now Kate gets to experience that "How'd my name get in this
>thread?" feeling.)
These days, I get to experience it every time someone wants to make
a dictionary crack.
--
Trent Goulding goul...@oco.net
Leigh Butler
<fv...@hoopyfroods.org> wrote:
> Leigh Butler wrote:
> > 5) Mercedes Lackey
>
> Hold it. Hold it *right there*.
>
> I had never heard of this woman until Jeff Huo mentioned Heather
> Alexander's music (she has done songs based on Valdamar, and they're
> actually pretty good).
Well, I've mentioned her in here before, but then I don't read all the
threads either.
> Then a colleague brings a book to work by her (a Valdamar book), and
> says he's a big fan, easy read, etc.
>
> And now you. All in the space of several weeks to a month. Damn these
> conspiracies! ;-)
Heh. Happens that way. How I got into Neil Gaiman.
> Judging from the rest of the list, are we to believe you either haven't
> read George R.R. Martin's work, or that you didn't like it as much as
> Jordan?
>
> For shame.
Hey now. For the record, I read _A Game of Thrones_ and liked it. I was
perhaps a tad annoyed by the comparative lack of Magic Stuff, but that
was probably just the mood I was in at the time.
Then I forgot all about it until I saw that the sequel was out. I was
about to buy it, but my hands started shaking with Unfinished-Epic-
Series-Aversion Syndrome.
When Martin finishes the series, I'll read it. Until then I already have
enough stress in my life.
> > 2) J.K. Rowling
> >
> > And only 17 more days till the movie opens!
> >
> > *glee*
>
> The Harry Potter movie? I'm currently waiting for Lord of the Rings.
Oh, I'm anticipating that one lots and lots as well. But Harry Potter
opens first, so I'm tailoring my anticipatory faculties accordingly.
> Funny, how several books are getting films all at the same time. There's
> that global conspiracy thing again (just like The Matrix, Thirteenth
> Floor and eXistenZ all happening in the same season).
In science it's called "simultaneous discovery". In Hollywood it's
called I Hate You I Hate You Jump Up And Down Have A Tantrum, A Valium,
And A Lawsuit, In That Order. [1]
> > There are fantasy books out there I consider to be better than any of
> > these authors have written (except possibly Kay), but these five's books
> > have given me the kind of pure enjoyment I look for in reading sf.
>
> Anything jump to mind as the epitomy of reading fun? Always in the
> market for recommendations from people with taste ;-)
Heh. I cheerfully admit to having mainstream tastes. My only claim to
Culchah is that at least I insist that it's _good_ mainstream, because
there is such a thing, dammit.
That way I can sneer at Brooks, Goodkind, and Eddings while happily
pimping King, (early) Rice, and Jordan.
To answer your question, I have to say that the closest epitome of pure
reading fun I've come across in years is (yes, you guessed it) Harry
Potter.
Most of the stuff that leaps to mind, actually, is stuff intended for
yoots - stuff I read in my tenderer years: the _Narnia_ books by C.S.
Lewis (when I was still young enough to ignore the blatant Christian
allegory), _The Phantom Tollbooth_ by Norton Juster, the Madeleine
L'Engle books (_A Wrinkle in Time_, _A Wind in the Door_, and _A Swiftly
Tilting Planet_ are her best, IMO).
Also, big big recommendation for _Watership Down_ by Richard Adams,
which you MUST read if you haven't already. Neal Stephenson's a lot of
fun, too, though much more cerebral than the rest of this shit (I'm
currently forcing Noell to plow through _Cryptonomicon_, cause it
Rocks).
For a total change of pace, try Jonathan Kellerman's "Alex Delaware"
novels, which are not fantasy at all (other than being set in Los
Angeles, heh heh) - great airport trash of the psychological
suspense/mystery/thriller variety. Start with _When the Bough Breaks_.
--
Leigh Butler leigh_...@paramount.com
******************************************************
The opinions expressed above do not necessarily reflect those
of Paramount Pictures or its affiliates.
[1] Okay, I have _got_ to quit it with the capital letters. But I Can't!
Mike Kozlowski
Trent Goulding <goul...@oco.net> wrote:
>Mike Kozlowski <m...@klio.org> wrote:
>Never read a single book by Lackey. If there was just one of her
>books that a fan who wanted to see her shown in her best light might
>put forward, what book might that be?
_Magic's Pawn_, but it is part of a trilogy.
>> I sprinted
>>through the first two books of Doris Egan's decent-but-not-good Ivory
>>trilogy some time back during one of my manic bursts of reading, but
>>haven't gotten more than a few pages into the third one since then.
>
>You too, huh? I read the first one several weeks ago, and my
>reaction was pretty much a resounding "enh". I haven't been
>motivated enough to start the second yet. How is it quality-wise in
>relation to the first?
Very similar. Not bad, certainly, and the kind of fluffy that is in short
supply, but nothing special.
>>(Heh. Now Kate gets to experience that "How'd my name get in this
>>thread?" feeling.)
>
>These days, I get to experience it every time someone wants to make
>a dictionary crack.
Heh.
scifantasy
>> You'd be surprised, Leigh.
>
> In this crowd, I don't know why she should be surprised, really.
>
> Of course, I don't know why she considers her expectation level
>"not normal", either...
What I mean is that she'd be surprised to find out that it wasn't
abnormal at all.
--
scifantasy
"RTF*"
scifantasy
>> >(I wanted to be Lily Potter, but Alex took issue with her handicap.)
>>
>> Besides being dead?
>
>No, that's the handicap he objected to.
*shrug* He had a point.
--
scifantasy
"RTF*"
Laura M. Parkinson
>Leigh Butler <leigh_...@paramount.com> quietly murmured:
>
><snip>
>
>> 4) Anne Rice
>>
>> Granted, the quality has gone steadily down the further you go, but I
>> maintain that _The Witching Hour_ and the first three vampire books are
>> and will be classics of the genre.
>
>Sadly true. I've stopped buying her books. It's a real shame she
>wasn't able to keep up the Mayfair saga after the brilliance of the
>first installment. The rest were just...bad.
*nods* I personally am finding it hard to believe that it got to the
point that I'm no longer even buying the damn Vampire books as they
come out, considering how much I liked the first few and how quickly I
snapped them up as they were coming out for a while...
*sigh* I mean, I thought most people were supposed to get *better* as
they wrote more things.
--
-'-,-'-<<0 Trickster 0>>-'-,-'- lpark...@mindspring.com
http://lparkinson.home.mindspring.com
"Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be
destroyed." -Richard Adams, Watership Down
Dean Chamberlain
says...
>
>
> Dean Chamberlain wrote:
> >
> > > This would be the author of Malazan Empire books? Tried to order one of
> > > his, but my online bookstore of choice (Proxis) can't deliver. :-(
> >
> > I'm really perplexed why our backward little country gets Erikson's
> > books,
>
> You're not backwards, you're upside down.
>
> > and yet other, much larger countries or groups of countries,
> > don't. Thankful, but perplexed.
>
> The Netherlands? Large? Heh. We're one of the smallest countries in
> Europe (though we have over 16 million inhabitants, which isn't terribly
> far behind Australia, if my spies are accurate).
I think we've got about 19 million at last count, not sure. But that's
what I meant by groups of countries, you'd think that any European
country would have cheaper ways of distributing books, than a sea-girt
country like ours.
> And I think, in this case, the blame lies with Proxis. They are cheap,
> and they are fast when they actually have a book, but they sell an awful
> lot of books which they can't deliver. I think I've gotten (and paid
> for) about 10-25% of books I've ordered there. I don't order much, or
> often, but gah. But they're cheap, so I'll continue to waste time there.
So they let you order, but then say "nah, sorry, we can't deliver to
you"? Seems a tad pointless for all concerned...
Leigh Butler
<di...@wam.umd.edu> wrote:
> It was Tue, 30 Oct 2001... scifantasy spoke words of wisdom:
>
> > Leigh Butler e-mused:
> >
> > >It is really not normal how much I am anticipating this movie.
> >
> > You'd be surprised, Leigh.
>
> In this crowd, I don't know why she should be surprised, really.
In this crowd, I'm surprised when there isn't anything to surprise me.
*pause* *reread*
Yeah.
> Of course, I don't know why she considers her expectation level
> "not normal", either...
Well, it's normal for fanboy/girl values of normal, I'm sure. Perhaps
even a bit lethargic on that set of standards.
But Todd and my sister are starting to give me strange looks.
Leigh Butler
wrote:
> >"I'm a strange boy who doesn't like Kay" list?
>
> Jesus, people, what the hell is wrong with all of you? We all like
> a lot of the same styles and authors, we've all got reasonably high
> standards, even if tastes vary here and there, and I've picked up a
> number of authors on this group's collective recommendations and
> enjoyed them immensely, so what the fuck is all this love for
> the Fionavar Tapestry about?
>
> I'm the first to admit that I haven't gone out of my way to find a
> copy of Tigana, supposedly a much stronger work, but for crying out
> loud, the characters in Fionavar are painfully cookie-cuttered, the
> disclaimers that come with the magic items pretty much give away the
> ending of the whole goddamn series, and it's _missing a fourth book_.
<etc.>
Points for ranting style, Michael, but I'm with Weaselboy on this one.
I've already said, and I repeat, the Fionavar books are NOTHING LIKE THE
REST OF KAY'S STUFF.
Not even a little bitty bit.
Read _Tigana_ or the Sarantine Mosaic, and get back to us. If you still
hate Kay then, well...
<crickets>
Leigh Butler
wrote:
> Mike Kozlowski <m...@klio.org> wrote:
>
>
> >>> >5) Mercedes Lackey
> >>> >Fluffy fun. And yes, Mike, soulmate horsies. Thbbt.
>
> Never read a single book by Lackey. If there was just one of her
> books that a fan who wanted to see her shown in her best light might
> put forward, what book might that be?
There's only one stand-alone novel in the Valdemar series (all the
others are arranged in trilogies and one duology), but you can't start
with that one because you'll have no idea what's going on.
I'd say start with _Arrows of the Queen_, which is first in publication
order.
(_Magic's Pawn_ is first in chronological order, but I think it's better
to start with the Talia books and then back up to Vanyel.)
If you really want me to I can post the order the entire series should
be read in.
scifantasy
>> Of course, I don't know why she considers her expectation level
>> "not normal", either...
>
>Well, it's normal for fanboy/girl values of normal, I'm sure. Perhaps
>even a bit lethargic on that set of standards.
My point exactly. Spoken as one who spens too much time around
otaku--Japanese for "fanperson."
>But Todd and my sister are starting to give me strange looks.
Give them strange looks back. In fact, give them stranger looks.
--
scifantasy
"RTF*"
Thor Shenkel
> Oh, we had a debate about it once or twice, that's all, but your
> "soulmate horsies" comment stuck in my head. I just like to poke at you
> for the same reason I poke at Thor anytime I bring up Tori Amos - it's a
> preemptive strike kinda thing.
Really? Still? After I've been silent all these years?
God, I might as well just crucify myself.
--Thor
Erica Sadun
> You too, huh? I read the first one several weeks ago, and my
> reaction was pretty much a resounding "enh". I haven't been
> motivated enough to start the second yet. How is it quality-wise in
> relation to the first?
Ivory is just so-so.
"City of Diamond" (under the pen name Jane Emerson)
is excellent.
-- Erica
--
www.ericasadun.com er...@mindspring.com
iMovie Tricks Book -- Spring 2002
"They say with age comes wisdom--but sometimes age walks alone."
Richard VanHouten
>
> On Tue, 30 Oct 2001 17:41:14 -0700, Trent Goulding <goul...@oco.net>
> wrote:
> > Mike Kozlowski <m...@klio.org> wrote:
> >
> >
> > >>> >5) Mercedes Lackey
> > >>> >Fluffy fun. And yes, Mike, soulmate horsies. Thbbt.
> >
> > Never read a single book by Lackey. If there was just one of her
> > books that a fan who wanted to see her shown in her best light might
> > put forward, what book might that be?
>
> There's only one stand-alone novel in the Valdemar series (all the
> others are arranged in trilogies and one duology), but you can't start
> with that one because you'll have no idea what's going on.
>
> I'd say start with _Arrows of the Queen_, which is first in publication
> order.
>
> (_Magic's Pawn_ is first in chronological order, but I think it's better
> to start with the Talia books and then back up to Vanyel.)
>
> If you really want me to I can post the order the entire series should
> be read in.
>
although there's a sequel, _Oathbound_ is more like a collection of
short fiction about the same characters than part of a multivolume
novel.
Erica Sadun
<leigh_...@paramount.com> wrote:
[regarding Lackey]
> I'd say start with _Arrows of the Queen_, which is first in publication
> order.
>
> (_Magic's Pawn_ is first in chronological order, but I think it's better
> to start with the Talia books and then back up to Vanyel.)
>
> If you really want me to I can post the order the entire series should
> be read in.
Feh.
Sentimental Tripe with a lot of rape, angst-filled alternative
lifestyles and close equine relationships.
Not worth it, in my opinion.
Leigh Butler
wrote:
> In article <MPG.1648f379d...@news.cis.dfn.de>, Leigh Butler
> <leigh_...@paramount.com> wrote:
>
> [regarding Lackey]
> > I'd say start with _Arrows of the Queen_, which is first in publication
> > order.
> >
> > (_Magic's Pawn_ is first in chronological order, but I think it's better
> > to start with the Talia books and then back up to Vanyel.)
> >
> > If you really want me to I can post the order the entire series should
> > be read in.
>
> Feh.
>
> Sentimental Tripe with a lot of rape, angst-filled alternative
> lifestyles and close equine relationships.
>
> Not worth it, in my opinion.
*blink*
Well, that's one way to look at it.
I personally thought Lackey's inclusion of "alternative lifestyles" (I'm
sorry, but I really hate that phrase) was one of her best features as an
author.
A lot of rape? Compared to what? Saying Lackey's books have "a lot of
rape" in the same thread that mentions Goodkind and GRRM and even Kay
is... astounding.
I think a lot of people would not necessarily enjoy the Valdemar books
because they are very light, very female-oriented, and yes, sentimental,
but IMO your assessment of the books is overly harsh.
Leigh Butler
wrote:
I really am going to make you that mixed tape one day.
Oh, yes. I will.
Mwhahahahaha etc.
Leigh Butler
wrote:
> Leigh Butler wrote:
> > On Tue, 30 Oct 2001 17:41:14 -0700, Trent Goulding <goul...@oco.net>
> > wrote:
<snip>
> > > Never read a single book by Lackey. If there was just one of her
> > > books that a fan who wanted to see her shown in her best light might
> > > put forward, what book might that be?
> > I'd say start with _Arrows of the Queen_, which is first in publication
> > order.
> I'd recommend _Oathbound_. It's set in the same world as Valdemar, and
> although there's a sequel, _Oathbound_ is more like a collection of
> short fiction about the same characters than part of a multivolume
> novel.
_Oathbound_ is part of the ongoing story (leads up to Kerowyn in _By The
Sword_, who eventually ends up in Valdemar), and is set pretty much
smack in the middle of the timeline.
I think that would be a confusing place to start.
Matt Hackell
So, how long did you stare at this before deciding to press "send"
anyway?
Matt Hackell
> > >>> >5) Mercedes Lackey
[snip]
> If you really want me to I can post the order the entire series should
> be read in.
Please?
Thor Shenkel
> [ Guy Gavriel Kay ]
> Jesus, people, what the hell is wrong with all of you? We all like
> a lot of the same styles and authors, we've all got reasonably high
> standards, even if tastes vary here and there, and I've picked up a
> number of authors on this group's collective recommendations and
> enjoyed them immensely, so what the fuck is all this love for
> the Fionavar Tapestry about?
It's easily on my list of the top five fantasy works I've read. I
personally was astonished how well he drew out the characters,
considering the sheer number of them he had to juggle. I cared about
these people. Not something I usually do.
> I'm the first to admit that I haven't gone out of my way to find a
> copy of Tigana, supposedly a much stronger work, but for crying out
> loud, the characters in Fionavar are painfully cookie-cuttered, the
> disclaimers that come with the magic items pretty much give away the
> ending of the whole goddamn series, and it's _missing a fourth book_.
> You know, that bit where they go back home and have to explain the
> unusual circumstances of their disappearances, the fact that two of
> them, if I recall, are just plain old _gone_, and we're nevertheless
> supposed to think that they all live happily ever after? If Jordan
> ends his series a fraction as poorly as that one ended, the gnashing
> of teeth will be audible from orbit, but for some reason unclear to
> me, Fionavar gets a pass?
Happily ever after? No, but that was never the point. More happily than
before? Definately. These characters have suffered, and they have grown
through their suffering.
> I can't believe that he keeps showing up on best author
> lists. as often as he does. Are the words "Guy Gavriel Kay" some
> bizzare freemason shorthand for "let's all go out back, smoke
> a wheelbarrow full of crack and try our hands at literary criticism?"
> Was I just not informed about that, or did I not get the
> secret handshake right when the crack pipes were being handed
> around?
Kay is lauded in no small way because he has a flowing, evocative style,
and a clear mastery at picking his words. Even if his work has problems
(like Tigana) it's still worth reading just to watch him put one word
after the other.
> Christ, again.
Why don't you go read some Brust then? He's the anti-Kay. You might
enjoy him.
--Thor
Richard VanHouten
>
> On Wed, 31 Oct 2001 01:56:20 GMT, Richard VanHouten <ric...@citlink.net>
> wrote:
> > Leigh Butler wrote:
> > > On Tue, 30 Oct 2001 17:41:14 -0700, Trent Goulding <goul...@oco.net>
> > > wrote:
>
> <snip>
> > > > Never read a single book by Lackey. If there was just one of her
> > > > books that a fan who wanted to see her shown in her best light might
> > > > put forward, what book might that be?
>
> > > I'd say start with _Arrows of the Queen_, which is first in publication
> > > order.
>
> > I'd recommend _Oathbound_. It's set in the same world as Valdemar, and
> > although there's a sequel, _Oathbound_ is more like a collection of
> > short fiction about the same characters than part of a multivolume
> > novel.
>
> _Oathbound_ is part of the ongoing story (leads up to Kerowyn in _By The
> Sword_, who eventually ends up in Valdemar), and is set pretty much
> smack in the middle of the timeline.
>
> I think that would be a confusing place to start.
Well, it's where I started. Yeah, the later books tie it into the
Valdemar books, but _Oathbound_ doesn't depend on anything in Valdemar
proper, and can be read on its own. It gives you a taste of the world.
You can even read _Oathbreakers_ without knowing much about Valdemar,
though the Heralds appear in it as minor players, though I wouldn't
recommend reading _By the Sword_ without reading at least the _Queen's
Own_ trilogy (or whatever she calls the trilogy that starts with _Arrows
of the Queen_). I still haven't read _Magic's Price_, though I've read
most of the rest of the books.
Pat O'Connell
>
> On Tue, 30 Oct 2001 08:28:12 GMT, Hawkmoon269 <m...@mycomputer.com> wrote:
>
> > Ok, I know the group is all about Jordan, but is he really the best that's
> > out there today? As a diversion, I thought we might discuss everyone's top
> > 5 contemporary fantasy authors (contemporary meaning the author has
> > written/published a book sometime within the past 5 - 10 years) We all know
> > that Tolkein would be a given on most people's lists, so lets skip the
> > obvious and think harder about it.
>
> Well, y'know, Tolkein didn't publish within the past 5-10 years,
> technically...but anyway.
>
> > So lets hear it...who are your top 5?
>
> Going strictly by which authors I've enjoyed the most and not literary
> merit as such:
> 4) Anne Rice
>
> Granted, the quality has gone steadily down the further you go, but I
> maintain that _The Witching Hour_ and the first three vampire books are
> and will be classics of the genre.
Karen used to read them avidly, but dropped them sometime in the last 5
years.
>
> 3) Robert Jordan
>
> I look for something to read one day, someone points out _Eye of the
> World_, yadda yadda yadda, I'm in Vegas meeting 40 total strangers.
Well we're strange, but not strangers. If you decide to visit Las Vegas,
let us know you're coming.
> 2) J.K. Rowling
>
> And only 17 more days till the movie opens!
>
> *glee*
Karen loves these books. We're going to see the movie of course, as well
as _The Fellowship of the Ring_.
No one's mentioned Stephen King's Gunslinger books, or Dan Simmons'
Hyperion/Endymion books (SF/fantasy hybrid, IMHO).
Finally, Roger Zelazny's dead, but the Amber books (and other fantasy
books) are a great read as long as you don't try to dissect them like
people do to Jordan and Tolkien's books.
No, I'm not going to rank my favorites.
--
Pat O'Connell
Take nothing but pictures, Leave nothing but footprints,
Kill nothing but vandals...
Thor Shenkel
> These days, I get to experience it every time someone wants to make
> a dictionary crack.
When _I_ want to make a dictionary crack, I just pick it up and open it
to the M's very brusquely.
--Thor
Thor Shenkel
> Sentimental Tripe with a lot of rape, angst-filled alternative
> lifestyles and close equine relationships.
Thank you for this one-sentence review that will ensure I am never ever
even tempted to pick up a Lackey book. Your work here is done.
--Thor
Laura M. Parkinson
Hrmph, that'd be a pity, IMHO.
Obviously Erica is entitled to her opinion, but I dunno if I've run
into any rape in the (probably admittedly limited) Lackey that I've
read, I haven't found the books particularly angsty, and things like
"alternative lifestyles" include homosexual relationships and the
like, which are found just too seldom in even vaguely mainstream books
in the first place.
Aaron Bergman
mh...@prince.carleton.ca (Michael Hoye) wrote:
>
> I'm the first to admit that I haven't gone out of my way to find a
> copy of Tigana, supposedly a much stronger work, but for crying out
> loud, the characters in Fionavar are painfully cookie-cuttered, the
> disclaimers that come with the magic items pretty much give away the
> ending of the whole goddamn series, and it's _missing a fourth book_.
_Fionavar_ sucks. Just ignore it and read _The Lions of al-Rassan_.
Then forgive Kay for the dumb trick he pulls and realize that other than
that it's an absolutely incredible book.
Then do the same thing for _Tigana_.
Aaron
Christopher Tong
Michael Hoye wrote:
<snip "I loathe GGK because he wrote that piece of tripe of the ages
known as the Fionavar Tapestry!">
Kay is a good... no a great author, but he has some flaws. His biggest
flaw is his expectation that you feel a certain way because he says you
ought to feel this way. Thus, the feeling that "Aw, wasn't red-eyed
dude's death so noble" or "My goodness, what a loss to the world the
fall of Moorish Spa^W^WAl-Rassan was." However, Fionavar was by far the
worst perpretator of this, IMHO. Read _Tigana_. It's great book and
will probably make you think of Kay more favourably. _A Song for
Arbonne_ is good too. I liked _The Lions of Al-Rassan_ too, but if
you're sensitive that sort of manipulative language, then you might not
want to read it.
All in all, Guy Gavriel Kay is a master at evoking feelings through his
writing. When he's at his best, his is a subtle mastery. When he's at
his worst, he comes close to hackdom. IMHO, of course.
Chris
P. Korda
scifantasy <scif...@ANTI-SPAMoptonline.net> wrote:
>Maggie e-mused:
>
>>> >(I wanted to be Lily Potter, but Alex took issue with her handicap.)
>>> Besides being dead?
>>No, that's the handicap he objected to.
>*shrug* He had a point.
Granted, I'm not an 8-year-old (or so) boy, but I really don't see the
problem. It's Halloween, for Pete's sake! What's wrong with dressing
up as a dead person, even a fictional dead person? Would it be bad to
dress up as Darth Vader? Cleopatra (not fictional, but dead)? Robin Hood?
-pam
John S. Novak, III
Hawkmoon269 wrote:
> So lets hear it...who are your top 5?
In no particular order:
o Vernor Vinge. Vinge has always had good ideas and told good stories
(even if they are rather thematically related) but he has also shown a
steady improvement in pure prose and story-telling ability. _A Deepness
in the Sky_ is a modern masterpiece.
o Guy Gavriel Kay. A bad Kay book is still the equal or better to
most stuff out on the market. Not each and every one of his books
hits me as brilliant, but enough of them do to put him on the list.
_Tigana_ and al-Rassan in particular are excellent, and if I overlook
certain flaws in Fionavar, that's wonderful as well.
o David Zindell, with reservations. His first four books,
_Neverness_ and the Requiem for Homo Sapiens series are absolutely
incredible. They're not quite like anything else I've ever read, with
great ideas (even if I disagree entirely with some of them) and an
amazingly alien future culture with a lot of eastern thought woven in.
The reservation is because for all this, his recent book is pure
derivative Extruded Fantasy Product crap.
o Walter Jon Williams. What an incredibly skilled writer-- while I
don't like everything he's written, everything he writes is quite
distinctive and fresh. It's like he's actrually several different
authors with several different voices, all extremely good., If only
he'd work out the publishing aspects and _finish_ the damned
Metropolitan series....!
o Robert Jordan. Yeah, the latter books have been weak, but the
intellectual accomplishment of drawing up a world this rich and
detailed is not to be sneezed at, in my opinion.
--
John S. Novak, III j...@cegt201.bradley.edu
The Humblest Man on the Net
P. Korda
Leigh Butler <leigh_...@paramount.com> wrote:
[Mercedes Lackey]
>_Oathbound_ is part of the ongoing story (leads up to Kerowyn in _By The
>Sword_, who eventually ends up in Valdemar), and is set pretty much
>smack in the middle of the timeline.
>
>I think that would be a confusing place to start.
Enh? Not really. All of Lackey's earlier series are fairly
self-contained. _By the Sword_ is the first Lackey book I read, and
there was no problem: she gives enough backstory in the
book. Likewise, _Oathbound_.
-pam
Aaron Bergman
wrote:
> Although, really, "reading fantasy" is also perilously close, since I'm in
> another one of my periodic downtimes when it comes to reading.
It's a bit of a downtime for books being released. Next few weeks a
couple of good ones are coming out, I think. _The Dragon Society_, for
one. There's also a sequel to _A Million Open Doors_ and _Earth Made of
Glass_ coming out, but I need to get the Paxil drip set up before
reading that one. There are probably a few others, too.
> I sprinted
> through the first two books of Doris Egan's decent-but-not-good Ivory
> trilogy some time back during one of my manic bursts of reading, but
> haven't gotten more than a few pages into the third one since then.
I just picked up the big combo of those. They suffer from a lack of
place, I think. The characters, none to likable themselves, meander
through various adventures, but it never really focuses into much of
anything at all.
Aaron
Aaron Bergman
lpark...@mindspring.com (Laura M. Parkinson) wrote:
> Obviously Erica is entitled to her opinion, but I dunno if I've run
> into any rape in the (probably admittedly limited) Lackey that I've
> read,
Second or third Arrows book, IIRC.
Aaron
John S. Novak, III
> Howsabout the fact that you've been told a trillion times that
> everything else Kay's written is different from, and better than,
> Fionavar? I know damn well why you don't like Fionavar, and that doesn't
> have a thing to do with why you wouldn't like Kay in general.
Flaws and all, I liked Fionavar better than Sarantium.
Mike Kozlowski
Erica Sadun <er...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>Sentimental Tripe with a lot of rape, angst-filled alternative
>lifestyles and close equine relationships.
Less angst in the later books, because the whole world is shiny, happy,
and covered with butterflies and flowers.
--
Mike Kozlowski
http://www.klio.org/mlk/
Amy Gray
mhac...@alumni.princeton.edu uttered...
find something to say about things that even I thought were innocuous,
so I might as well make it easy on them.
--
Amy Gray
ag...@kumc.edu
UIN: 91047322
John S. Novak, III
> It occurs to me, belatedly, that instead of merely figuring out who's got
> the most excellent novels, a more straightforward approach is just to
> figure out who's got the best "GPA" by averaging up the ratings of the
> books I've read (and filtering so that I've read at least two books by the
> author, to prevent people like Kij Johnson -- whose one book was excellent
> -- from getting onto the list prematurely).
Could you index these by imprint logo?
Mike Kozlowski
Thor Shenkel <bunn...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Definately.
Ignore me, I'm just wincing.
>Why don't you go read some Brust then? He's the anti-Kay. You might
>enjoy him.
In a way, I can almost agree with that. But only in a way. In totality,
I don't think it makes much sense.
Mike Kozlowski
John S. Novak, III <j...@cegt201.bradley.edu> wrote:
>In article <9rnd09$nrk$3...@news.panix.com>, Mike Kozlowski wrote:
>
>> Howsabout the fact that you've been told a trillion times that
>> everything else Kay's written is different from, and better than,
>> Fionavar? I know damn well why you don't like Fionavar, and that doesn't
>> have a thing to do with why you wouldn't like Kay in general.
>
>Flaws and all, I liked Fionavar better than Sarantium.
Well, I love Fionavar. But I also think that _Lord of Emperors_ is the
first book Kay's written that equals Fionavar for intensity.
John S. Novak, III
>>Flaws and all, I liked Fionavar better than Sarantium.
> Well, I love Fionavar. But I also think that _Lord of Emperors_ is the
> first book Kay's written that equals Fionavar for intensity.
The intensity was very much muted for me in Sarantium because, well, I
know some history. I'd put _Tigana_ there for intensity, though.
Cue Thor's weird rant about "What difference does a name make?"
--
John S. Novak, III j...@cegt201.bradley.edu
Mike Kozlowski
John S. Novak, III <j...@cegt201.bradley.edu> wrote:
>In article <9rncdj$nrk$2...@news.panix.com>, Mike Kozlowski wrote:
>
>> It occurs to me, belatedly, that instead of merely figuring out who's got
>> the most excellent novels, a more straightforward approach is just to
>> figure out who's got the best "GPA" by averaging up the ratings of the
>> books I've read (and filtering so that I've read at least two books by the
>> author, to prevent people like Kij Johnson -- whose one book was excellent
>> -- from getting onto the list prematurely).
>
>Could you index these by imprint logo?
Perhaps oddly, I don't capture that in my database. I've thought about
getting it along with binding type and category, just so I could slice and
dice the data a little more, but it'd be too much of a pain to go back and
enter it in now.
Even though I could enter 99% of the publishers from memory.
Mike Kozlowski
Aaron Bergman <aber...@princeton.edu> wrote:
>In article <9rmv3e$jct$1...@news.panix.com>, Mike Kozlowski <m...@klio.org>
>wrote:
>
>> Although, really, "reading fantasy" is also perilously close, since I'm in
>> another one of my periodic downtimes when it comes to reading.
>
>It's a bit of a downtime for books being released.
That may be, but given my bookshelves, I'm pretty well insulated from the
vagaries of release schedules.
>Next few weeks a
>couple of good ones are coming out, I think. _The Dragon Society_, for
LWE, is that?
>one. There's also a sequel to _A Million Open Doors_ and _Earth Made of
>Glass_ coming out, but I need to get the Paxil drip set up before
>reading that one. There are probably a few others, too.
My list looks like:
Last Hero, Pratchett
Which I just ordered.
Davidson, The Other Nineteenth Century
Duncan, Silvercloak
Vinge, Collected Stories
Vinge, True Names
Walton, King's Name
Which are all going on my Christmas list. (Have to leave something for
the family...)
>> through the first two books of Doris Egan's decent-but-not-good Ivory
>> trilogy some time back during one of my manic bursts of reading, but
>> haven't gotten more than a few pages into the third one since then.
>
>I just picked up the big combo of those. They suffer from a lack of
>place, I think. The characters, none to likable themselves, meander
>through various adventures, but it never really focuses into much of
>anything at all.
Yeah. But not as bad as J.V. Jones, so they're still better than pure
mediocrity.
My main problem is that I just plain ol' don't buy the protagonists'
romance. I mean, they really have nothing in common and barely even seem
to like each other most of the time. It's one of those thrown together by
adrenaline and circumstance deals, which in the hands of a more skilled
author (say, Bujold) would be the basis of an interesting plot; here, it's
just formulaic stuff. Unless that third book gets drastically different.
Mike Kozlowski
John S. Novak, III <j...@cegt201.bradley.edu> wrote:
>In article <9rnshl$egm$3...@news.panix.com>, Mike Kozlowski wrote:
>
>> Well, I love Fionavar. But I also think that _Lord of Emperors_ is the
>> first book Kay's written that equals Fionavar for intensity.
>
>The intensity was very much muted for me in Sarantium because, well, I
>know some history.
But some of the most intense stuff comes where/after Kay deviates from
straight history.
>I'd put _Tigana_ there for intensity, though.
It's up there, definitely. But Tigana is also, comparatively speaking,
less polished than Sarantium. I really think that _Lord of Emperors_ is
the book where Kay most effectively puts together his intensity and
increased polish. But I wouldn't complain about Tigana, certainly.
Erica Sadun
<leigh_...@paramount.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 30 Oct 2001 18:58:02 -0700, Erica Sadun <er...@mindspring.com>
> wrote:
> > Sentimental Tripe with a lot of rape, angst-filled alternative
> > lifestyles and close equine relationships.
> >
> > Not worth it, in my opinion.
>
> *blink*
>
> Well, that's one way to look at it.
>
> I personally thought Lackey's inclusion of "alternative lifestyles" (I'm
> sorry, but I really hate that phrase) was one of her best features as an
> author.
>
> A lot of rape? Compared to what? Saying Lackey's books have "a lot of
> rape" in the same thread that mentions Goodkind and GRRM and even Kay
> is... astounding.
*blink*
When did I ever say that I liked Goodkind, GRRM and Kay?
-- Erica
--
www.ericasadun.com er...@mindspring.com
iMovie Tricks Book -- Spring 2002
"They say with age comes wisdom--but sometimes age walks alone."
Maggie
> Maggie e-mused:
>
> >> >(I wanted to be Lily Potter, but Alex took issue with her handicap.)
> >>
> >> Besides being dead?
> >
> >No, that's the handicap he objected to.
>
> *shrug* He had a point.
<*stare*>
Surely, you jest.
If he's going to badger the Daddinator to be Nearly Headless Nick, what
the hell is wrong with Lily Potter?
Dead is dead, after all, even if one of the dead personages has no
lines.
--
Maggie UIN 10248195 http://www.darkfriends.net
"Shadow found himself thinking about a garage in San Clemente with box
after box of rare, strange and beautiful books in it rotting away, all
of them browning and wilting and being eaten by mold and insects in the
darkness, waiting for someone who would never come to set them free."
- Neil Gaiman, cut from _American Gods_
John S. Novak, III
>>The intensity was very much muted for me in Sarantium because, well, I
>>know some history.
> But some of the most intense stuff comes where/after Kay deviates from
> straight history.
It still wasn't there for me.
>>I'd put _Tigana_ there for intensity, though.
> It's up there, definitely. But Tigana is also, comparatively speaking,
> less polished than Sarantium. I really think that _Lord of Emperors_ is
> the book where Kay most effectively puts together his intensity and
> increased polish. But I wouldn't complain about Tigana, certainly.
Well, whatever it is you mean by "less polished," I happen to like it
quite a bit. There's really only one small thing in _Tigana_ that
bothers me, and no, it's not the ending verse.
--
John S. Novak, III j...@cegt201.bradley.edu
Mike Kozlowski
Mike Kozlowski
John S. Novak, III <j...@cegt201.bradley.edu> wrote:
>> It's up there, definitely. But Tigana is also, comparatively speaking,
>> less polished than Sarantium. I really think that _Lord of Emperors_ is
>> the book where Kay most effectively puts together his intensity and
>> increased polish. But I wouldn't complain about Tigana, certainly.
>
>Well, whatever it is you mean by "less polished," I happen to like it
>quite a bit.
By that I mostly refer to how well Kay integrates the disparate elements
of the book together. In Fionavar, he did it very badly indeed; in
Tigana, he did it much better, but there are still things that don't quite
fit in (the cornfields, for instance); in his later books, he really gets
successful at it, reaching a peak perhaps in Al-Rassan (which misses for
me in feeling too slickly manipulative, and with a too-conventional
heroine).
John S. Novak, III
>>Well, whatever it is you mean by "less polished," I happen to like it
>>quite a bit.
> By that I mostly refer to how well Kay integrates the disparate elements
> of the book together. In Fionavar, he did it very badly indeed; in
> Tigana, he did it much better, but there are still things that don't quite
> fit in (the cornfields, for instance);
Speak for yourself-- I liked the nightwalkers, and they fit just fine
for me.
--
John S. Novak, III j...@cegt201.bradley.edu
P. Korda
Hawkmoon269 <m...@mycomputer.com> wrote:
>Ok, I know the group is all about Jordan, but is he really the best that's
>out there today? As a diversion, I thought we might discuss everyone's top
>5 contemporary fantasy authors (contemporary meaning the author has
>written/published a book sometime within the past 5 - 10 years) We all know
>that Tolkein would be a given on most people's lists, so lets skip the
>obvious and think harder about it. Here's my current top 5:
[...]
>So lets hear it...who are your top 5?
I love making lists! I'm going to stick with authors whose primary
output is fantasy (rather than science fiction).
1. Roger Zelazny. He'll always be #1, as far as I'm concerned. He
hasn't written much in the last decade, on account of being dead, but
his last book wasa fantasy book published in 1993, which lets me sneak
him in under the 10 years mark. By the way, if you haven't read _A
Night in the Lonesome October_, go find a copy and read it now. I am
hoping against hope that somebody will see fit to collect all of his
un-collected short stories, novellas, etc, and publish them all in one
place. Otherwise, I'll be spending the next 20 years seeking out
obscure anthologies, fanzines, and sf magazines to get a complete
collection of his stories.
2. Steven Brust. Like Zelazny, a master of style and wonderful
prose. He's able to work in a variety of styles, from First Person
Smartass adventure, to Dumas pastiche, to fairy-tale, to epistolatory
novel, and so forth. And they're all good! And well-written! I love an
author with a good command of the English language.
3. Neil Gaiman. Reminiscent of Brust, he displays a similar range of
style (which extends beyond novels to comics and TV, even) and skill
in the Use of Language. Not as prolific as Brust, which is a shame
because he's damn good!
4. Terry Pratchett. Not at all like Brust, Gaiman, or Zelazny. Unlike
a lot of humorous works, his stories are not only funny, they have
three-dimensional characters who you care about and interesting
plots. That is to say, they're not just good humorous books, they're
good books.
5. Robert Jordan. Recent books in his magnum opus have gotten bogged
down in extraneous side-plots, but _The Wheel of Time_ remains a
triumph of world-building, and the first 4 books are still engaging.
I haven't lost hope that he'll get back on track at some point.
Okay, that being done, I'll give some honorable mentions:
* Walter Jon Williams. He'd be #3, except that the vast majority of
his work is science fiction, rather than fantasy. He's got the same
breadth of style displayed by Gaiman and Brust, and like them &
Zelazny, is adept in the Use of Language. (Do we sense a trend?)
_Metropolitan_ and _City on Fire_ are really imaginative works of
fantasy (or scifi where the science is so advanced it's
indistinguishable from magic).
* Philip Pullman. His _His Dark Materials_ trilogy is supurb:
imaginative, philosophical, daring, and well-written. Doesn't make the
list because most of his work isn't fantasy, and I didn't really like
the non-fantasy book of his I read.
* C. S. Friedman. Her _Coldfire_ trilogy is ALMOST fantasy, but she's
mostly a science fiction author, so I didn't think it was right to
include her over proper fantasy authors.
* Guy Kay. He appears on many other folks' lists, so I don't feel bad
about not including him. I didn't do so, because I haven't actually
read a lot of his books. _Tigana_ is a masterpiece, however, and
highly recommended.
And, because people have asked others about the absense of this guy,
I'll explain why he's not on my list:
* George R. R. Martin. I haven't read much of his work, only 1 short
story, 1 novella, and most of one book. I really liked the short story
& the novella, but I thought _A Game of Thrones_ was boring. (There
were good bits, but the good bits were separated by too much
blathering about too many characters I didn't care about.) I am
interested in reading more of his work which is not part of that
series.
-pam
Jeff Stockwin
> Dean Chamberlain wrote:
> > 5.Glen Cook. Not sure exactly what it is, but something in the Black
> > Company series agrees with me.
> I should really go give this a try. Amazon's excellent new tool,
> allowing you to preview a number of pages, tells me that method of
> writing used is agreeable.
Agreeable, but not particularly gripping yet. But I've only read about 100
pages, so maybe it gets more engrossing soon. I have to believe it is going
to - after a few years of repeating such discussions you get an idea of
whose tastes run similar to your own, or at least which people almost never
recommend crap.
Such recommendations have so far led me to _Tigana_, Vlad Taltos, and all
things Vorkosigan so it's worked pretty well in the past.
--
Jeff Stockwin
"Put down roots, my friend, and then tell me how unfree you were when
you were yet unrooted." -Orson Scott Card, _Xenocide_
John S. Novak, III
> I love making lists! I'm going to stick with authors whose primary
> output is fantasy (rather than science fiction).
> 1. Roger Zelazny. He'll always be #1, as far as I'm concerned. He
> hasn't written much in the last decade, on account of being dead, but
> his last book wasa fantasy book published in 1993, which lets me sneak
> him in under the 10 years mark.
Hmm.
If I'd have thought about it that closely, I might have swapped
Zelazny in for Walter Jon Williams on my list. If I stuck with
fantasy as opposed to SF (which I didn't feel like doing) it would
have been an easier call.
But then I'd have had to ditch Zindell and Vinge, and replace them
with.... I dunno, who would I replace them with? PC Hodgell? Yeah,
'94 would count for that. And maybe Lisa Goldstein.
But that's why I didn't want to restrict to just strict Fantasy.
> * C. S. Friedman. Her _Coldfire_ trilogy is ALMOST fantasy, but she's
> mostly a science fiction author, so I didn't think it was right to
> include her over proper fantasy authors.
This is another reason I didn't want to arbitrarily decide.
Even though there's a sciencey explanation for things in Coldfire, it
was still a fantasy book.
Laura M. Parkinson
>In article <wwtD7.33292$IR4.19...@news1.denver1.co.home.com>,
>Hawkmoon269 <m...@mycomputer.com> wrote:
>>Ok, I know the group is all about Jordan, but is he really the best that's
>>out there today? As a diversion, I thought we might discuss everyone's top
>>5 contemporary fantasy authors (contemporary meaning the author has
>>written/published a book sometime within the past 5 - 10 years) We all know
>>that Tolkein would be a given on most people's lists, so lets skip the
>>obvious and think harder about it. Here's my current top 5:
>[...]
>>So lets hear it...who are your top 5?
>
>I love making lists! I'm going to stick with authors whose primary
>output is fantasy (rather than science fiction).
I dunno if I'll do this thread, on the other hand, because even *I*
don't know who my top five writers are, really. And I'm just getting
exposed to some of the good stuff. (Like Kay.)
>1. Roger Zelazny. He'll always be #1, as far as I'm concerned. He
>hasn't written much in the last decade, on account of being dead, but
>his last book wasa fantasy book published in 1993, which lets me sneak
>him in under the 10 years mark. By the way, if you haven't read _A
>Night in the Lonesome October_, go find a copy and read it now. I am
>hoping against hope that somebody will see fit to collect all of his
>un-collected short stories, novellas, etc, and publish them all in one
>place. Otherwise, I'll be spending the next 20 years seeking out
>obscure anthologies, fanzines, and sf magazines to get a complete
>collection of his stories.
Which reminds me... do you know whereabouts I might be able to find
Amber short stories? I've heard of their (possible) existance, but
don't know where any would be found. I should just follow advice and
ask in r.a.sf.w, but I'm gonna avoid jumping into that newsgroup if
possible.
(I might be tempted to stay, and that's all I'd need...)
>* George R. R. Martin. I haven't read much of his work, only 1 short
>story, 1 novella, and most of one book. I really liked the short story
>& the novella, but I thought _A Game of Thrones_ was boring. (There
>were good bits, but the good bits were separated by too much
>blathering about too many characters I didn't care about.) I am
>interested in reading more of his work which is not part of that
>series.
Lessee... would that short story be in Wild Cards, by any chance...?
(At least, I think you bought that big ol' thang at the same time I
did, didn't you?)
--
-'-,-'-<<0 Trickster 0>>-'-,-'- lpark...@mindspring.com
http://lparkinson.home.mindspring.com
"Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be
destroyed." -Richard Adams, Watership Down
P. Korda
Laura M. Parkinson <lpark...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>ko...@midway.uchicago.edu (P. Korda) rhapsodized in blue:
>>I love making lists! I'm going to stick with authors whose primary
>>output is fantasy (rather than science fiction).
>
>I dunno if I'll do this thread, on the other hand, because even *I*
>don't know who my top five writers are, really. And I'm just getting
I picked them by asking, "If X came out with a new book, what's the
chance I'd buy it in hardcover?"
>>place. Otherwise, I'll be spending the next 20 years seeking out
>>obscure anthologies, fanzines, and sf magazines to get a complete
>>collection of his stories.
>
>Which reminds me... do you know whereabouts I might be able to find
>Amber short stories? I've heard of their (possible) existance, but
>don't know where any would be found. I should just follow advice and
>ask in r.a.sf.w, but I'm gonna avoid jumping into that newsgroup if
>possible.
A bunch of obscure fanzines, anthologies, and the like. You can get
the particular names from Zelazny's entry in the Internet SF database:
>>* George R. R. Martin. I haven't read much of his work, only 1 short
>>story, 1 novella, and most of one book. I really liked the short story
>>& the novella, but I thought _A Game of Thrones_ was boring. (There
>>were good bits, but the good bits were separated by too much
>>blathering about too many characters I didn't care about.) I am
>>interested in reading more of his work which is not part of that
>>series.
>
>Lessee... would that short story be in Wild Cards, by any chance...?
Oh, hey, that's 2 short stories I've read by him; I forgot about the
Wild Cards one. Yeah, I liked that one, too.
-pam
Laura M. Parkinson
>In article <3bdf8553...@news.mindspring.com>,
>Laura M. Parkinson <lpark...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>Which reminds me... do you know whereabouts I might be able to find
>>Amber short stories? I've heard of their (possible) existance, but
>>don't know where any would be found. I should just follow advice and
>>ask in r.a.sf.w, but I'm gonna avoid jumping into that newsgroup if
>>possible.
>
>A bunch of obscure fanzines, anthologies, and the like. You can get
>the particular names from Zelazny's entry in the Internet SF database:
>
>http://www.sfsite.com/isfdb/
Woohoo! You rock...
Now I'll just have to suffer because I'll never find any of them.
*sigh*
>>>* George R. R. Martin. I haven't read much of his work, only 1 short
>>>story, 1 novella, and most of one book. I really liked the short story
>>>& the novella, but I thought _A Game of Thrones_ was boring. (There
>>>were good bits, but the good bits were separated by too much
>>>blathering about too many characters I didn't care about.) I am
>>>interested in reading more of his work which is not part of that
>>>series.
>>
>>Lessee... would that short story be in Wild Cards, by any chance...?
>
>Oh, hey, that's 2 short stories I've read by him; I forgot about the
>Wild Cards one. Yeah, I liked that one, too.
Some of the Wild Cards stuff is, thus far, the only Martin I've read,
though I've been keeping an eye out for some of his other stuff, which
wouldn't involve jumping into the middle of a series.
Aaron Bergman
wrote:
> In article <abergman-C41C14...@news.ba-dsg.net>,
> Aaron Bergman <aber...@princeton.edu> wrote:
> >Next few weeks a
> >couple of good ones are coming out, I think. _The Dragon Society_, for
>
> LWE, is that?
Ja.
>
> >one. There's also a sequel to _A Million Open Doors_ and _Earth Made of
> >Glass_ coming out, but I need to get the Paxil drip set up before
> >reading that one. There are probably a few others, too.
[...]
> Davidson, The Other Nineteenth Century
> Duncan, Silvercloak
Dave Duncan is that? New series or more in the recent universe?
> Vinge, Collected Stories
> Vinge, True Names
I'll probably pick this up, but I found the double with "True Names" a
few years back. Besides, I won't believe this book actually exists until
I see it sitting in front of me on a bookstore shelf.
> Walton, King's Name
I completely bounced off _The King's Peace_ less than one hundred pages
in. Something about the style of writing really didn't work for me. It's
still lying around for a second try at some point, I think.
[...]
> >> through the first two books of Doris Egan's decent-but-not-good Ivory
> >> trilogy some time back during one of my manic bursts of reading, but
> >> haven't gotten more than a few pages into the third one since then.
> >
> >I just picked up the big combo of those. They suffer from a lack of
> >place, I think. The characters, none to likable themselves, meander
> >through various adventures, but it never really focuses into much of
> >anything at all.
>
> Yeah. But not as bad as J.V. Jones, so they're still better than pure
> mediocrity.
I don't know. They're different sorts of mediocrity. Jones was pretty
basic bildungsroman fantasy, but, almost necessarily for that genre, it
went somewhere. If you pushed it, so to speak, there was something solid
in the middle. For the Ivory trilogy, it just seemed to be an incoherent
lump. The story moved, but it never seemed as if something was really
ever there in the end.
> My main problem is that I just plain ol' don't buy the protagonists'
> romance. I mean, they really have nothing in common and barely even seem
> to like each other most of the time.
I mostly just didn't like them. I'm not sure how I would have reacted to
book to pre-9/11, but certainly in the present context, Theodora's
sanguinity to various acts in the second book didn't sit real well with
me.
> It's one of those thrown together by
> adrenaline and circumstance deals, which in the hands of a more skilled
> author (say, Bujold)
<twitch>
> would be the basis of an interesting plot; here, it's
> just formulaic stuff. Unless that third book gets drastically different.
Hardly.
Aaron
Hawkmoon269
off in directions I never would have expected it to go. I was mostly hoping
to discover if people who appreciate Jordan tend to appreciate the same
other authors as well. I would have to admit that although there are some
similarities, there is a striking amount of diversity in the authors chosen
as the current 'best of the best' by the various readers of the group. I
was also hoping to use the thread to possibly glean some suggestions for
future reading, but given the range of different types of authors mentioned,
its difficult to pick out the ones who I might appreciate.
Apparently the 'fantasy' genre is even more fractured than I thought, and
the people reading it are more willing to jump around in the various
sub-genres. Jordan being part of the 'epic high fantasy' sub-genre (IMHO),
I was looking for similar types of authors to him. Unfortunately, it
appears that Jordan is one of the rare authors who appeals to many types of
readers (duh). Personally, I detest any type of fantasy that falls into the
happy/funny/punny/guaranteed happy ending/talking animals/utterly
predictable/cheese-o-rama crap (that's why I stopped reading Anthony's
'Xanth' novels when I was 13) So any recommendations for Terry Pratchet or
his ilk falls on deaf ears. And that includes this Harry Potter crap (flame
away). Give me hardcore, believable, gritty, subtle, complex, gut-wrenching
sword and sorcery anytime.
I noticed lots of people railing against Kay and other authors who wouldn't
stand up and list the authors they think are better than Kay and
why...anybody can be a critic. Speak up about who you like and take your
shots.
And what's with these wimps who won't read a book simply because the series
isn't finished yet? These people obviously don't understand that its the
years of agonizing anticipation before the next book comes out that makes
reading it so much more of a joy when it finally arrives. Stop depriving
yourselves and dig in...and enjoy the waiting with the rest of us.
I await your comments.
Hawkmoon269
"John S. Novak, III" <j...@concentric.net> wrote in message
news:9rnrpu$uvck2$1...@ID-100778.news.dfncis.de...
> In article <wwtD7.33292$IR4.19...@news1.denver1.co.home.com>,
> Hawkmoon269 wrote:
>
> > So lets hear it...who are your top 5?
>
> In no particular order:
>
> o Vernor Vinge. Vinge has always had good ideas and told good stories
> (even if they are rather thematically related) but he has also shown a
> steady improvement in pure prose and story-telling ability. _A Deepness
> in the Sky_ is a modern masterpiece.
>
> o Guy Gavriel Kay. A bad Kay book is still the equal or better to
> most stuff out on the market. Not each and every one of his books
> hits me as brilliant, but enough of them do to put him on the list.
> _Tigana_ and al-Rassan in particular are excellent, and if I overlook
> certain flaws in Fionavar, that's wonderful as well.
>
> o David Zindell, with reservations. His first four books,
> _Neverness_ and the Requiem for Homo Sapiens series are absolutely
> incredible. They're not quite like anything else I've ever read, with
> great ideas (even if I disagree entirely with some of them) and an
> amazingly alien future culture with a lot of eastern thought woven in.
> The reservation is because for all this, his recent book is pure
> derivative Extruded Fantasy Product crap.
>
> o Walter Jon Williams. What an incredibly skilled writer-- while I
> don't like everything he's written, everything he writes is quite
> distinctive and fresh. It's like he's actrually several different
> authors with several different voices, all extremely good., If only
> he'd work out the publishing aspects and _finish_ the damned
> Metropolitan series....!
>
> o Robert Jordan. Yeah, the latter books have been weak, but the
> intellectual accomplishment of drawing up a world this rich and
> detailed is not to be sneezed at, in my opinion.
P. Korda
Laura M. Parkinson <lpark...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>ko...@midway.uchicago.edu (P. Korda) rhapsodized in blue:
[Zelazny]
>>A bunch of obscure fanzines, anthologies, and the like. You can get
>>http://www.sfsite.com/isfdb/
>Woohoo! You rock...
>Now I'll just have to suffer because I'll never find any of them.
>*sigh*
Well, join me in hoping for a new collection.
>>>>* George R. R. Martin. I haven't read much of his work, only 1 short
>Some of the Wild Cards stuff is, thus far, the only Martin I've read,
>though I've been keeping an eye out for some of his other stuff, which
>wouldn't involve jumping into the middle of a series.
His _Legends_ novella "The Hedge Knight" is good. IIRC, it's set in
the same world as his mega-super-series, but it stands alone.
-pam
John S. Novak, III
>>A bunch of obscure fanzines, anthologies, and the like. You can get
>>the particular names from Zelazny's entry in the Internet SF database:
>>http://www.sfsite.com/isfdb/
> Woohoo! You rock...
> Now I'll just have to suffer because I'll never find any of them.
> *sigh*
From what I know, they're quite rare.
Possibly unobtanium.
I'd be very interested to read them, but not interested enough to
invest the time and frustration in the effort. I think one of them is
from Rinaldo's viewpoint.
Jeff Stockwin
> series I followed as a kid. Sentimental value maybe. I could never get
> into the Lord of Rings, Does anybody knows why? I seem to be the ONLY
one.
It ain't the quickest beginning in the world. It took me a second try to
get into it, and then as the ned got nearer I remember physically jumping
off of the couch in my frustration with how slow I read because I wanted to
know what was going to happen Right Now.
> I also don' do Stephen King- I even tried it in Spanish- no different.
This may be due to the choices you made. What did you try? The problem
with Stephen King is that at some point the decision was made to publish
every single word to fall from his fingertips. The result is a wildly
uneven. _The Long Walk_ is easily his best work, _It_ and a handful of
others are really good. _Cujo_, _Pet Sematary_, and _The Dark Half_ are
quite horrible. Most of the short stories are good. Misery was absolutely
unbearable, but that probably had to do more with my slow reading and
complete lack of patience. Me and suspense don't get along too well.
Jeff Stockwin
> Mike Kozlowski <m...@klio.org> wrote:
> >(Heh. Now Kate gets to experience that "How'd my name get in this
> >thread?" feeling.)
>
> These days, I get to experience it every time someone wants to make
> a dictionary crack.
Yeah, but you encourage it, so there's certainly no use in complaining.
--
Jeff Stockwin
I use the Chinese water torture, myself.