The M'hael and other relations between the Bible & the WoT
Karl-Johan Noren
I got the following text via e-mail from a swedish jordanite
who haven't figured out Usenet yet, asking me to forward it
to the froup.
His e-mail address is
Oskar Brandt <Oskar....@silver.stat.gu.se>
and the reply field is set so any e-mailed replies should go
to him. He would also like you to send him copies by e-mail
of any follow-ups.
+++ begin forwarded text
When reading ACoS, I thought that the pronunciation of Taim's new title
(M'hael [MA'kHAIL]) very much resembled to a certain name in our real
world, Michael. So I looked for the name Michael and here is what i found:
Mi'chael ("who (is) as God") is inn Judaism the foremost of "the
archangels". He is mentioned in the book of Daniel (12:1) as the guardian
angel of Israel and as the great champion in the final, decisive battle
(compare with M:'s fight with the Dragon Book of Rev. 12:7).In this battle,
he is supposed to lead four-seven against the Dragon. In extra-canonical
scripture he is also described as being the high priest of Heaven, as
proclaiming the Law and as the attendant/guide of the dead (compare NT
Judas's letter verse 9). M. found a place in Christian mthology too,
especially as regards his escathological functions. In christian frescoes,
M. is depicted fighting a dragon.
When reading about the name Michael, I found other interesting things
related to the Forsaken and their fight with the Dragon. Eg. the archangel
of medicine is called Rafael (Book of Tobe, the Apochrypha).I think that
Rahvin is similar to Raphael. Rahvin's alias was Gaebril, very similar to
Gabriel.The archangel Gabriel was the great messenger of the heavenly
world(Book of Dan. 8:16, 9:21) And in the NT G. is described as the Angel
of the Annunciation of the Virgin Mary. Is it possible that Morgase/Mary is
pregnant with Rahvin's/Gaebril's child?
The word devil ascends from the Greek word diabolos, which means aggressor
and/ or accuser. In the Book of Rev. 12:9, the Devil is the Adversary of
God and the Accuser of Man. In the Genesis 3:1, the devil is depicted as a
snake or a dragon. In the end of ACoS, Rand is hailed as the king of the
world.In John 12:31, the devil is called the prince of this world.In the
Ephesians 2:2, the devil is the commander of the armed forces of the air.
Maybe Rand will be that too? The following might be a longshot, but isn't
the pronunciation of Lews Therin similar to that of Lucifer. Lucifer means
"one who carries light". Lews Therin was the Lord of the Morning, the
leader of the armed forces of the Light.
This has nothing whatsoever to do with biblical names, but Lews Therin's
last name was Telamon. In Greek myth, Telamon was son of Aiakos, father of
Aias and the founder of the city of Salamis on Cyprus. Tudiloo!
The followers and the enemies of the biblical Dragon in the Last Battle:
Rev. 12:1 The Dragon shall hunt a pregnant woman dressed in the sun and
with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head.
Evidently Lanfear, but does it mean that she'll come back? Some lines
further down in Rev. 12, it is saud that the dragon will wait in vain to
kill her son who shall shepherd all people with a staff of iron. It is also
said (Rev. 12:7) that Michael and the Dragon will lead their own angels
against each other, but the Dragon's will lose and fall down on the Earth.
On ground-level, the Dragon will the formerly pregnant woman, who shall get
the two wings of the great eagle (Rev. 12:13). The woman will fight the
Dragon with earth and the Dragon the woman with water. The woman will win
that contest. Is this Rand & Lanfear fighting in TFoH? After that the
Dragon went to fight her other children, those who keep the commandments of
God...And he/the Dragon positioned himself on the sea-beach. (Rev 12:18)
Are these the Seanchan? They claim to keep the commandments of Paendrag and
they are connected with the sea. Rand's half-healed wound:
Rev. 13:3One of the heads of the beast seemed to have got a deadly thrust,
but the deadly wound had been healed. Rev. 13:...to make a picture for the
beast who had recieved a sword-cut but who had come back to life.
Will the Song be sung again:
Rev. 14: The Lamb stood on the mountain of Sion and together with the Lamb
one hundred and forty-four thousands who had his name and his father's name
written on their foreheads. Are these the Aiel, the Tuathan or some other
people?
I could continue comparing the Book of Revelations and the WoT forever and
ever and find more and more connections, but now I'm too tired for that so:
-Good night and do read the Book of Revelations. It does, at least to me,
seem to have influenced Jordan quite a bit!
+++ end of forwarded text
--
Karl-Johan Norén (Noren with acute e) -- k-j-...@dsv.su.se
http://www.dsv.su.se/~k-j-nore/
- To believe people are as stupid as one believes is
stupider than one can believe
Bonehead
Oskar Brandt <Oskar....@silver.stat.gu.se> wrote:
}When reading about the name Michael, I found other interesting things
}related to the Forsaken and their fight with the Dragon. Eg. the archangel
}of medicine is called Rafael (Book of Tobe, the Apochrypha).I think that
}Rahvin is similar to Raphael. Rahvin's alias was Gaebril, very similar to
}Gabriel.The archangel Gabriel was the great messenger of the heavenly
}world(Book of Dan. 8:16, 9:21) And in the NT G. is described as the Angel
}of the Annunciation of the Virgin Mary. Is it possible that Morgase/Mary is
}pregnant with Rahvin's/Gaebril's child?
For another possiblity, there is the Hindu demon-king Ravana, who kidnapped
Simi (I think), the wife of Rana. Rana travelled to Ravana's stronghold
to wack him and rescue Simi. I tend to go for a Biblical source, but this
works if Rand = Rama, Rhavin = Ravana, and rescuing Simi = avenging Morgase.
--
Dylan Alexander
dy...@tamu.edu
Jay Pasquantonio
Bonehead wrote:
>
> Oskar Brandt <Oskar....@silver.stat.gu.se> wrote:
>
> }When reading about the name Michael, I found other interesting things
> }related to the Forsaken and their fight with the Dragon. Eg. the archangel
> }of medicine is called Rafael (Book of Tobe, the Apochrypha).I think that
> }Rahvin is similar to Raphael. Rahvin's alias was Gaebril, very similar to
> }Gabriel.The archangel Gabriel was the great messenger of the heavenly
> }world(Book of Dan. 8:16, 9:21) And in the NT G. is described as the Angel
> }of the Annunciation of the Virgin Mary. Is it possible that Morgase/Mary
>>is pregnant with Rahvin's/Gaebril's child?
>
> Simi (I think), the wife of Rana. Rana travelled to Ravana's stronghold
> to wack him and rescue Simi. I tend to go for a Biblical source, but this
> works if Rand = Rama, Rhavin = Ravana, and rescuing Simi = avenging
>Morgase.
Wow, nice research, people! Just to add my voice to the din in the
common room, I would also compare Rahvin to Raven, a companion and
helper to Coyote in the Navajo culture. Coyote is either a trickster or
totally evil, depending on who you talk to, but either way, Raven is his
helper. Raven is always jealous of Coyote, and sometimes pulls tricks on
the trickster himself.
Jay Pasquantonio
Turbo Ginsu Purple Death Beam
On Wed, 2 Oct 1996, Bonehead wrote:
> Oskar Brandt <Oskar....@silver.stat.gu.se> wrote:
>
> }When reading about the name Michael, I found other interesting things
> }related to the Forsaken and their fight with the Dragon. Eg. the archangel
> }of medicine is called Rafael (Book of Tobe, the Apochrypha).I think that
> }Rahvin is similar to Raphael. Rahvin's alias was Gaebril, very similar to
> }Gabriel.The archangel Gabriel was the great messenger of the heavenly
> }world(Book of Dan. 8:16, 9:21) And in the NT G. is described as the Angel
> }of the Annunciation of the Virgin Mary. Is it possible that Morgase/Mary is
> }pregnant with Rahvin's/Gaebril's child?
>
> For another possiblity, there is the Hindu demon-king Ravana, who kidnapped
> Simi (I think), the wife of Rana. Rana travelled to Ravana's stronghold
> to wack him and rescue Simi. I tend to go for a Biblical source, but this
> works if Rand = Rama, Rhavin = Ravana, and rescuing Simi = avenging Morgase.
>
Its Rama and Sita I believe.
--
Govind "Gopal" Salinas.
You're only given a little spark of madness, if you loose that you're
nothin'. -Robin Williams.
"But the woman removed the cover of the great jar with her hands and
scattered the evils within... Hope alone remained within there in the
unbreakable home under the edge of the jar and did not fly out of doors."
-Hesiod _Theogony._
Prasenjit Medhi
Excerpts from netnews.rec.arts.sf.written.robert-jordan: 3-Oct-96 Re:
The M'hael and other re.. by Jay Pasqua...@med1.me
> > }related to the Forsaken and their fight with the Dragon. Eg. the archangel
> > }of medicine is called Rafael (Book of Tobe, the Apochrypha).I think that
> > }Rahvin is similar to Raphael. Rahvin's alias was Gaebril, very similar to
> > }Gabriel.The archangel Gabriel was the great messenger of the heavenly
> > }world(Book of Dan. 8:16, 9:21) And in the NT G. is described as the Angel
> > }of the Annunciation of the Virgin Mary. Is it possible that Morgase/Mary
> >>is pregnant with Rahvin's/Gaebril's child?
Well, first of all, I have to say wow! That's some pretty good
research you did.
But I have to say that if Lews Therin is based on Lucifer[read
original message] it does raise some questions. For example why would
Lucifer(wot version) be fighting the DO? This might also raise some
questions about whether RJ is into Devil worship:)
> >
> > For another possiblity, there is the Hindu demon-king Ravana, who kidnapped
> > Simi (I think), the wife of Rana. Rana travelled to Ravana's stronghold
Its Sita, by the way.
> > to wack him and rescue Simi. I tend to go for a Biblical source, but this
Me too, I think the biblical source is more convincing.
> > works if Rand = Rama, Rhavin = Ravana, and rescuing Simi = avenging
> >Morgase.
I don't quite think so, Rama's too nice a person. The Ramayana, or
Rama's story, clearly conveys to the reader that Rama was just too good,
ala Galad. Rand doesn't fit the bill.
>
> Wow, nice research, people! Just to add my voice to the din in the
> common room, I would also compare Rahvin to Raven, a companion and
> helper to Coyote in the Navajo culture. Coyote is either a trickster or
> totally evil, depending on who you talk to, but either way, Raven is his
> helper. Raven is always jealous of Coyote, and sometimes pulls tricks on
> the trickster himself.
That's pretty interesting. I'm afraid I'm not familar with Navajo
culture. But the names are very similar, though. There's only one
problem, who's Coyote being compared to, the DO or perhaps some other
Forsaken?
>
> Jay Pasquantonio
Cheerio
Roon
Johan Magnusson
In article <dylan-02109...@news.tamu.edu>, dy...@tamu.eduu says...
>
>Oskar Brandt <Oskar....@silver.stat.gu.se> wrote:
>
>}When reading about the name Michael, I found other interesting things
>}related to the Forsaken and their fight with the Dragon. Eg. the archangel
>}of medicine is called Rafael (Book of Tobe, the Apochrypha).I think that
>}Rahvin is similar to Raphael. Rahvin's alias was Gaebril, very similar to
>}Gabriel.The archangel Gabriel was the great messenger of the heavenly
>}world(Book of Dan. 8:16, 9:21) And in the NT G. is described as the Angel
>}of the Annunciation of the Virgin Mary. Is it possible that Morgase/Mary
is
>}pregnant with Rahvin's/Gaebril's child?
>
>Simi (I think), the wife of Rana. Rana travelled to Ravana's stronghold
Morgase.
>
Ravana had some pet demons called Ra'kshas which helped him. Rhavins
reformed Queens-guards or the Myrddral/Trollocs.
Rama was helped by Ha'numan a half-god with a monkey-head.
Rand wasn´t helped by Gaidal Cain. How did Asmo look like, or Moggy/Nyn?
Max Rebo